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  #1  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:12 AM
Barney Sentner Barney Sentner is offline
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This Year's NCAA Tournament -YAWN!!!

The lack of competitive balance in the women's game hurts popularity greatly. Coming from someone who has watched the tourney so far I only have two lasting impressions so far and one is not good. That's UConn scoring 94 points in the first half against St. Francis, PA. The other is the success of the MAC namely Buffalo and Central Michigan. I hope there are competitive games in the final four - thought we might get a good game last night but Oregon couldn't hit anything in the second half against ND. Actually a third impression, how about Fairmont's Westbeld last night - 20 pts and tough interior defense.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:31 AM
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Two impressions...

Originally Posted by Barney Sentner View Post
The lack of competitive balance in the women's game hurts popularity greatly. Coming from someone who has watched the tourney so far I only have two lasting impressions so far and one is not good. That's UConn scoring 94 points in the first half against St. Francis, PA. The other is the success of the MAC namely Buffalo and Central Michigan. I hope there are competitive games in the final four - thought we might get a good game last night but Oregon couldn't hit anything in the second half against ND. Actually a third impression, how about Fairmont's Westbeld last night - 20 pts and tough interior defense.
The St. Francis score was unfortunate and not reflective of women's basketball. Of course a #16 will never beat a #1 in the NCAAs. But the SFU coach made a stupid decision that resulted in a non-game...which he admitted and essentially apologized for. He observed how other teams playing UConn tried to slow the game and play a half-court offense. Instead he decided to gamble and "run" with UConn, not try to work the ball inside, and shoot quick threes....SFU set an NCAA record shooting nearly 70 threes...making only 10.

SFU didn't make threes, could not run with UConn and played essentially no defense. That is what accounted for the ridiculous score..not UConn's play. UConn's starters played only half the game and nothing changed when the reserves played. Had SFU played Dayton using the strategy they used against UConn it would have been a rout. Very Bad coaching decision.

The Final Four games will be competitive.

Re competitiveness overall. Schools have to invest more in the sport. It's not a national lack of talent. UConn has six players.....the population is over 300 million people with thousands of high schools. The problem is not too few good players. The four schools in the Final Four invest in the game as do a few dozen others. I think UD can be in the elite group....but not unless/until the Faithful/Prider fan base is as demanding and critical of SG and staff as they are of AG and staff.

Just as in men's BB, good recruiting and coaching makes for good teams. And because the competition is so much less in the women's game, recruiting good players is easier. We can do it.

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  #3  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:36 AM
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Saw an interesting tweet saying combined record of the FF teams is 141-6 and 4 of the 6 losses were to others in the FF.

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/978482177590652928
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:00 AM
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Didn't watch the WNCAA this year except 2nd half ND Oregon gsme. Just no interest in women's games in the tourney. My friends threatened to leave if I had the women's games on. Just no parity and as long as the very few top players that come out of HS continue to go to the same top 5 schools it won't improve the game and hence the interest.

Lopsided scores hurt interest and do the sport or women no good. Today's players would rather take the easy route and play for teams that have blazed the trail instead of spreading the wealth and being a trail blazer themself.

Outside of conference play where teams are rivals and more parity there just isn't enough interest to build a fan base.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:24 AM
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Let's anakyze this...

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Didn't watch the WNCAA this year except 2nd half ND Oregon gsme. Just no interest in women's games in the tourney. My friends threatened to leave if I had the women's games on. Just no parity and as long as the very few top players that come out of HS continue to go to the same top 5 schools it won't improve the game and hence the interest.

Lopsided scores hurt interest and do the sport or women no good. Today's players would rather take the easy route and play for teams that have blazed the trail instead of spreading the wealth and being a trail blazer themself.

Outside of conference play where teams are rivals and more parity there just isn't enough interest to build a fan base.
Avid mentioned "five" top schools. A typical freshman class has no more than three incoming players. That would be 15 really good players produced by thousands of high schools in a country of 300+ million....and not enough good HS players to supply another few dozen programs. Does this sound right? I'm asking.

I've heard it said that one problem is that far too many schools still do not take women's athletics seriously....and therefore do not demand a level of success typical of their men's programs. Understandable to a point. At UD the men bring in the money. But a women's draw of 2500-3000 fans per game reflects interest way above average. In the Hoover/Mallott years I'm guessing it was closer to 5000.

There are fewer more male-dominated schools than Notre Dame. Yet women's athletics teams, including basketball, are always near the top. This doesn't just happen. It requires effort, investment and high expectations. Now I don't think UD should invest to have a nationally ranked soft ball team or anything like that. But Ted Kissell developed a strategy for excellence for our U identifying five sports, one of which was women's basketball. As for women's BB, we're doing OK...but we can do better. Investment, effort, expectations.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:38 AM
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UD is invested in fall Olympic sports, Fredrick center as example, soccer playing and practice facilities, men's women's bball practice facilities.

Not sure what wbball or fall Olympic coaches earn but I'd bet top of A10. Women's bball is on the verge of joining the top 25, same for vball, soccer is a step behind but the U is committed to elevating those sporrs.

Ohio is producing some top wbball talent so keeping them home will a priority. NCAA two years in row will help Shauna on recruiting trail, now as she gets her own recruits needs to advance to grab areas best.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:24 PM
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I love women's basketball, but watched very little this year. The dominance of UConn and a few others has left me empty. The women's game is so far away from the men's parity that I wonder now if it will ever end. I do not know what the answer is, but whatever it is, it is not happening.

One of the problems with women's BB is that the talent is split with volleyball, and leaves only about 25 stud players each year to recruit for BB. Men's BB has some of that problem with football, but those are different athletes, and there are just more males interested in sports and BB.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:07 PM
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looks like we may have an extra ticket to the final 4 here in Columbus. They are nose bleed and would take face value - about $110 IIRC... Anyone interested
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:38 PM
Barney Sentner Barney Sentner is offline
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Look at the roster for the Mc Donald's girls game tomorrow - UConn, Tennessee, Baylor, etc same old teams though Syracuse got one.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:37 PM
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McDonald's AA team

Originally Posted by Barney Sentner View Post
Look at the roster for the Mc Donald's girls game tomorrow - UConn, Tennessee, Baylor, etc same old teams though Syracuse got one.
The 24 McD AAs are going to 14 different schools....7 schools got more than one...Baylor got four.

The 14 schools are the elite, no doubt. But, two of this year's Final Four schools didn't get even one McD AA.

We know from the Flyer's men's program that a school doesn't need McD AAs or four star players to have a very good team. And HS BB is not Div 1 college BB. UConn has had quite a few McD AAs that could not play Div 1 BB well at all and either rode the pine or transferred.

While the 24 players on the McD team are very good,....there are many, many more just as good that aren't AAs...some in Ohio and nearby. We've got to get our share of them. Our facilities are terrific....UD has plenty going for it.
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:07 AM
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No Yawners tonight!
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2018, 12:42 PM
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That is progress, as there now are a half dozen teams that can play with UConn. That is what it takes. For those of us that grew up in the sixties, UCLA got almost every great recruit and was unbeatable, then they lost a championship, and soon others were out-recruiting them. I hope this is the start of it for women's BB.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:13 PM
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No doubt parity exist now in top 5 and with UCONN now losing out on two championships in a row players will now start taking a second look at progrsms. UCONN is no longer the lock they had been, other teams stepping up. Even Dayton lead over UCONN at the hAlf opened a few eyes. Now others believe it's possible.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:15 PM
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Championship game a little wacko right now. ND don't look like they belong o n the same court, but there is another 20 minutes to go.

ND only scored 3 pts total in 2nd qtr.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:18 PM
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Good thing there is a second half and a second life.

Congrats to ND came from behind for the national title.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:21 PM
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Notre Dame wins on a circus shot at the buzzer but it was not deserved. Mississippi State player dribbling up court and completely run over and no call with about 5 seconds left. Would have put player at line for 2 freebies.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:38 PM
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MSU had a foul to give. Not fouling probably cost them the NC, we will never know. Good come back by the Irish though.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Notre Dame wins on a circus shot at the buzzer but it was not deserved. Mississippi State player dribbling up court and completely run over and no call with about 5 seconds left. Would have put player at line for 2 freebies.
Game after gamd officials don't call fouls in last minutes unless flagrant. Must be something they agree to as there were a ton of fouls in the last minutes of both semi games not called.

To say the win was not deserved is a total disservice to ND as MSU chose not to foul. Who knows how it would have ended from there.

ND came from 15 pts down which makes their win quite deserving.

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Old 04-02-2018, 02:29 AM
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Incredible Final Four. All four teams were probably 1-2 possessions away from being in a position to win the whole thing -- even UConn/Louisville would have each had a great chance to win in the finals.

The late no-call was a tough one on MSU, but ND couldn't buy a foul from MSU all 4th qtr either -- I think they committed 2 fouls in the first 9:57 of the final qtr. If you beat #1 seeds UConn and Miss State back to back who had a combined 1 loss on the season, you won the title -- it wasnt handed/gifted to you.

Interesting to me is ND finished with 3 losses on the year - one to #1 seed UConn and two to #1 seed Louisville. They won every other game. Yet with injuries they only played about 7 players and about 4 of them were role players. As talent goes, this was nowhere near McGraw's best team in the las 15 years -- probably 9-10 past teams since the 2001 title team were more talented and more capable. Especially those teams with Diggins, McBride, and Ochonwa. Those ND teams would probably beat this ND team by 15pts. UConn was not deep this year however. Miss State was not a good perimeter shooting team. Louisville was prone to lapses (see awful first 15min vs Boise State in Rd 1).

Everything has to come together near perfectly to win a title. You need to be good, you need a few bounces over 6 games, and you need a player or two to make the coach look really smart when the coach is out of ideas. Ogunbowale did that twice in the Final Four. Those two shots were made when Muffet McGraw got her commitment on a recruiting trip several years prior. Nothing McGraw could have coached up or scribbled on a whiteboard to make those shots go in -- it was God given DNA.

The 17 seasons between NCAA titles is the most in WBB history by a program, let alone head coach.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:21 AM
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So much for this year's tourney a "yawner". Happy for Fairmont's Westbeld who played a key roll in the championship. I had to be out and about yesterday and boo to WONE for not carrying the games on radio - 1360 out of Cincinnati did but the signal was too weak to stay with. ND deserved it - they were not given it by the officials. Mc Cowan for MSU can be the best player in the country next year if she works on her offensive game in the off season. That point blank layup she missed toward the end hurt badly.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:03 AM
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Miss St was absolutely robbed. Being an ex-ref I rarely complain about them, but the end to that game was a travesty. First the tall girl on MS, as clearly shown on the replays got hacked on the arm(s) on those last two point blank shots. Then the little guard gets not only fouled, but knocked down, and no call. Terrible. How do referees rise to that level, which is not easy, and not make calls? The foul by the MS big girl on the ND player was ticky tack, and ND had a breakaway, but a foul is a foul. Glad to see they called that one.

Happy I had no skin in the game, but people probably finally tune in to see the non-UConn teams, and they have to put up with NBA like officiating. Took the juice out of a great game by both teams.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:45 PM
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As a ex ref Jack I am sure you called every foul and got them right....NOT.

Let's play that last series out. Let's say they call a foul that your freaking out about. MSU goes to the line makes both free throws. MSU up by 2 with 3 secs left. ND calls time out advancing ball to half court. ND runs the same exact play they did hitting trey from corner.....ND wins by 1 not 3. MSU chose not to foul their bad. ND still wins.
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Old 04-02-2018, 01:08 PM
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I have to say that this was the best Final Four game wise of any I have ever watched, men's or women's. Could not believe the first two games went into OT. I turned on the final game late yesterday because of traveling to a family get together. Saw ND down 15 or so and thought it was going to be a poor follow up to the first two games. The second half had everything in it, a comeback, trading leads, great shots and hustle by both teams. This weekend should be a kick in the pants the women's game needs. Hopeful basketball fans saw the ladies game is fun to watch and attend.
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Old 04-02-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
As a ex ref Jack I am sure you called every foul and got them right....NOT.

Let's play that last series out. Let's say they call a foul that your freaking out about. MSU goes to the line makes both free throws. MSU up by 2 with 3 secs left. ND calls time out advancing ball to half court. ND runs the same exact play they did hitting trey from corner.....ND wins by 1 not 3. MSU chose not to foul their bad. ND still wins.
If the mid-court foul is properly called, then the big girl does not foul out for Mississippi State on the ensuing call (properly called IMHOP), and the whole MSU defensive posture for the last 3 seconds is different because the big girl can defend the post without help. The missed foul call took a bit of shine off a great game.

In watching the replay perhaps the biggest part of the play was the move to get open to get the inbounds pass. MSU had her fronted but she was able to get around that. All that being said, it was an incredible miraculous shot.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
As a ex ref Jack I am sure you called every foul and got them right....NOT.

Let's play that last series out. Let's say they call a foul that your freaking out about. MSU goes to the line makes both free throws. MSU up by 2 with 3 secs left. ND calls time out advancing ball to half court. ND runs the same exact play they did hitting trey from corner.....ND wins by 1 not 3. MSU chose not to foul their bad. ND still wins.
Your getting delusional Avid. As a ref you must call every foul you see. All refs miss some, especially small hits away from the ball. Are you saying that ref did not see that lady get run over? They did not see it, or chose not to call it, unexcusable at that level.

These are not fans in the stands or HS refs getting paid $100, or me, so save your lecture. These are highly paid and skilled refs, who have risen to a status of doing a Final 4. No, you should not make such an obvious error or overlook at that level.

You are a woulda, shoulda, coulda kind of guy. If MS goes up by 2 on free throws, then ND would have needed a three, and as was pointed out above, the defense changes to guard only the three line and allow penetration.

Secondly, why did the coach not tell his team to foul, or the player fail to foul on the dribble? They had fouls to give.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:40 PM
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Guess that also means they should have called a T on ND for running on the court but not even the refs knew if there was time on the clock.

Also should have called a T or the game for delay of game as the three players on the court at the end had already gone into the locker room, and they had to go get them.

On replay the post was guarded well by MSU that is why she took the highly contested shot on the parimeter. So MSU big girl would not have made a difference as MSU had the post guarded well. It's not the first time she hit a game winner from the corner.

As for your insistence on the foul it was discussed by sports pundits and on msg boards, some felt it was an obvious foul while others felt it was play on.

I didn't care who won, but playing it out even with the foul ND hit the shot and MSU chose not to foul. Why only coach for MSU knows but with or without the foul at mid court and the big girl in the game guarding the post they trey would have won the game.

A team that blows a 15 point lead and doesn't foul at the end isn't any more deserving to win than the team that did. Your opinion is just that and not shared by everyone. Games and res are played by humans and they are never perfect.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:42 PM
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What would be interesting is if they had post game interviews by refs like they do teams.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
What would be interesting is if they had post game interviews by refs like they do teams.

Huggins agrees with you.


https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/bob...ege-basketball
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Guess that also means they should have called a T on ND for running on the court but not even the refs knew if there was time on the clock.

Also should have called a T or the game for delay of game as the three players on the court at the end had already gone into the locker room, and they had to go get them.

On replay the post was guarded well by MSU that is why she took the highly contested shot on the parimeter. So MSU big girl would not have made a difference as MSU had the post guarded well. It's not the first time she hit a game winner from the corner.

As for your insistence on the foul it was discussed by sports pundits and on msg boards, some felt it was an obvious foul while others felt it was play on.

I didn't care who won, but playing it out even with the foul ND hit the shot and MSU chose not to foul. Why only coach for MSU knows but with or without the foul at mid court and the big girl in the game guarding the post they trey would have won the game.

A team that blows a 15 point lead and doesn't foul at the end isn't any more deserving to win than the team that did. Your opinion is just that and not shared by everyone. Games and res are played by humans and they are never perfect.
The irony in all of this is that what contributed to MSU reaching the finals was Louisville's decision NOT to foul when they had one to give, and MSU tied the game in regulation and rolled in OT. ****ed if you do...
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