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06-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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Well if these reports come to fruition, I think we can slowly take off the red and Marianist/Columbia blue colored glasses and put this one to bed. The “Never Big Easters” were right.
At least we still have Duquesne and LaSalle as rivals...
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06-22-2019, 01:01 PM
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If we get left out again it’ll be the beginning of the end for ud basketball. The A10 is already bad. Lose VCU and it gets worse. SLU May look to leave and go back MVC (I think that’s where they were)
The perception ud fans have the program are not anywhere the same fans of other school have of ud. We missed the boat when the BE first reformed
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06-22-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
If we get left out again it’ll be the beginning of the end for ud basketball. The A10 is already bad. Lose VCU and it gets worse. SLU May look to leave and go back MVC (I think that’s where they were)
The perception ud fans have the program are not anywhere the same fans of other school have of ud. We missed the boat when the BE first reformed
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Exactly- our 100 years of basketball and the 13,000 fan who come every game and the tens of thousands that follow the program will just go away. Thanks for the heads up Nostradamus !!!
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06-22-2019, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
If we get left out again it’ll be the beginning of the end for ud basketball. The A10 is already bad. Lose VCU and it gets worse. SLU May look to leave and go back MVC (I think that’s where they were)
The perception ud fans have the program are not anywhere the same fans of other school have of ud. We missed the boat when the BE first reformed
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I’m not ready to proclaim it as the “beginning of the end for UD basketball”, but it would certainly be a gut-punch. And losing VCU would be even more of a gut punch. SLU could choose to leave for the MVC, but that would largely be to save travel costs, as all the schools would be within about a half-day’s drive of St. Louis.
If not before, the blueprint seems to be getting clearer now: become the Gonzaga of the Midwest (i.e. completely dominate in a middling conference). And we have yet to do that.
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06-22-2019, 01:21 PM
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Football performance
Originally Posted by shapanud
Pete Thamel is saying the next likely move for AAC is adding another football only school to go w/ Navy, likely Army or Air Force. And then another basketball school to go with Wichita State, with VCU being the most likely target. Obviously this would not be good for UD or the A-10.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-u-c...151200471.html
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I live in the shadow of UConn and have "local" sense of the matter (sort of).
A few things: UConn/the State has committed a great deal of money to FB...a few hundred million, incl a $100+ million stadium that would find very little us absent UConn FB. The State is suffering financially and UConn's budget is being cut.
Because of these factors I think the performance of the FB team this season could be the deciding factor. Last year was a debacle with UConn setting all-time NCAA records for futility; It was really bad. Actual attendance was ~ 10,000 although TX sales were twice that....attendance below when UConn was an FCS school. If Edsall's steam shows marked improvement, say 4-8, being competitive even in losses, there may be a reprieve because the team in young. Anything approximating last year might signal that the situation is truly hopeless.
Bottom line: Watch the performance of the team this Fall....that is likely to be the deciding factor, in my opinion.
(By the way, I don't think UConn is an "automatic" entry back into the BE.)
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06-22-2019, 01:38 PM
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Thanks for the perspective, UAC. Football really does present an issue for UConn. And the question will likely be, will the school (and the State) continue to put good money into what has been, to date, a bad investment? As a lifelong Daytonian, I’m not sure how a state school in New England would answer that question.
If the Huskies could prove to be competitive (and profitable) in FBS football, then the ACC could be an option, and that would put them in a region with Syracuse, BC, and Pitt. But at only 10,000-15,000 fans per game, they’d be a better fit in the MAC, with the likes of Akron, Kent State, and Ohio U. Don’t think that would excite Husky Football supporters a whole heluvalot.
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06-22-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Exactly- our 100 years of basketball and the 13,000 fan who come every game and the tens of thousands that follow the program will just go away. Thanks for the heads up Nostradamus !!!
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13k fans going to show up for Fordham, La Salle, and Duquesne? There’s about to be a major shift of the older sweater vest ticket holders no longer being around and kids today don’t care. They really won’t care when it comes to seeing those teams at ud arena. But go ahead and keep your rose colored glasses on
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06-22-2019, 03:26 PM
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Listening to sports radio and one of the ESPN people mentioned the AAC adding two basketball schools
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06-22-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Listening to sports radio and one of the ESPN people mentioned the AAC adding two basketball schools
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I get that the AAC is a Franken-conference like the old Big East. I get that it’s got some dregs that make LaSalle look respectable. I get that we really would rather be in the NBE. I get that we’ve not dominated the A-10 like we should have (given our resources). However, I think we need to go where the established non-P5 basketball powers are going and that’s not the A-10 anymore. I think we need to be in a conference that (for the time being) has far more relevance than the A-10. Houston, Memphis, UC, SMU, Tulsa >>>>> St Bonny, Davidson, SLU, URI, GMU. If the AAC ultimately implodes, we band together with Wich St, VCU from that conference & build a rival to the NBE with the committed schools from the A-10 and other conferences.
The A-10 has been a good fit, but if the AAC calls, we go.
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06-22-2019, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Listening to sports radio and one of the ESPN people mentioned the AAC adding two basketball schools
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We need to make this happen. Not saying it's just up to UD to say yes - I realize we have to be invited, but this has to happen. If we lose VCU/ SLU - we can kiss At-Large bids goodbye.
If we can't get enough good OOC games, and then the good conference games go away - we would need to win the A10 each year to get in.
I wouldn't see this as the end of UD basketball or anything, but it would certainly make things more difficult for us.
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06-22-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
I live in the shadow of UConn and have "local" sense of the matter (sort of).
A few things: UConn/the State has committed a great deal of money to FB...a few hundred million, incl a $100+ million stadium that would find very little us absent UConn FB. The State is suffering financially and UConn's budget is being cut.
Because of these factors I think the performance of the FB team this season could be the deciding factor. Last year was a debacle with UConn setting all-time NCAA records for futility; It was really bad. Actual attendance was ~ 10,000 although TX sales were twice that....attendance below when UConn was an FCS school. If Edsall's steam shows marked improvement, say 4-8, being competitive even in losses, there may be a reprieve because the team in young. Anything approximating last year might signal that the situation is truly hopeless.
Bottom line: Watch the performance of the team this Fall....that is likely to be the deciding factor, in my opinion.
(By the way, I don't think UConn is an "automatic" entry back into the BE.)
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You say this season could be the deciding factor. Deciding factor for what? Deciding whether to move basketball to the Big East? Dropping football? Dropping football to FCS? Going independent for football? Joining a lesser conference like the MAC for football only? Staying in the AAC for all sports? Trying to stay in the AAC for football only? Trying to get into a better conference?
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06-22-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
You say this season could be the deciding factor. Deciding factor for what? Deciding whether to move basketball to the Big East? Dropping football? Dropping football to FCS? Going independent for football? Joining a lesser conference like the MAC for football only? Staying in the AAC for all sports? Trying to stay in the AAC for football only? Trying to get into a better conference?
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You don't understand the football situation. We are already FCS, one of only a handfull of nonscholarship programs, doesn't get any cheaper to run than that. Moving to the MAC would be an upgrasde as the MAC is a scholarship league. We are in a good spot football wise, quality program, winning the Pionnier conference puts us in the FCS playoffs, and being non-scholly keeps the cost of the program low. Doubt football is a factor regarding the future of the Men's BB program.
I also doubt we get the chance to "decide " to go to the NBE. If UCONN moves, the NBE is toast for us. AAC may still be a slim option for us, but don't hold your breath. We could be in the A-10 for quite a while.
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06-22-2019, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62
You don't understand the football situation. We are already FCS, one of only a handfull of nonscholarship programs, doesn't get any cheaper to run than that. Moving to the MAC would be an upgrasde as the MAC is a scholarship league. We are in a good spot football wise, quality program, winning the Pionnier conference puts us in the FCS playoffs, and being non-scholly keeps the cost of the program low. Doubt football is a factor regarding the future of the Men's BB program.
I also doubt we get the chance to "decide " to go to the NBE. If UCONN moves, the NBE is toast for us. AAC may still be a slim option for us, but don't hold your breath. We could be in the A-10 for quite a while.
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I believe he’s talking about UCONN football, not UD football.
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06-22-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62
You don't understand the football situation. We are already FCS, one of only a handfull of nonscholarship programs, doesn't get any cheaper to run than that. Moving to the MAC would be an upgrasde as the MAC is a scholarship league. We are in a good spot football wise, quality program, winning the Pionnier conference puts us in the FCS playoffs, and being non-scholly keeps the cost of the program low. Doubt football is a factor regarding the future of the Men's BB program.
I also doubt we get the chance to "decide " to go to the NBE. If UCONN moves, the NBE is toast for us. AAC may still be a slim option for us, but don't hold your breath. We could be in the A-10 for quite a while.
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What Viperstick said.
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06-22-2019, 09:26 PM
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C'mon longtimer...
Originally Posted by longtimefan
You say this season could be the deciding factor. Deciding factor for what? Deciding whether to move basketball to the Big East? Dropping football? Dropping football to FCS? Going independent for football? Joining a lesser conference like the MAC for football only? Staying in the AAC for all sports? Trying to stay in the AAC for football only? Trying to get into a better conference?
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Not surprised that you're trying to make my "deciding factor" opinion appear complicated. It's not. UConn has stated over and over that it is "committed" to the AAC....a football conference. However, there is a local growing body of opinion that UConn should drop football....a very costly money pit at a time of great financial pressure from the state.
The "deciding factor" is likely (in my opinion) to be the performance of the football team this season. If the team repeats last season's dreadful performance or shows only slight improvement the pressure to drop the program could become overwhelming. On the other hand, if the young team's performance is markedly improved with say, four or five wins and competitive losses, it would be very hard to abandon the sport on a strong up-tick in performance.
Now that wasn't so hard to understand was it? Of course, as I clearly stated, that is my opinion....nothing more.
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06-22-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Not surprised that you're trying to make my "deciding factor" opinion appear complicated. It's not. UConn has stated over and over that it is "committed" to the AAC....a football conference. However, there is a local growing body of opinion that UConn should drop football....a very costly money pit at a time of great financial pressure from the state.
The "deciding factor" is likely (in my opinion) to be the performance of the football team this season. If the team repeats last season's dreadful performance or shows only slight improvement the pressure to drop the program could become overwhelming. On the other hand, if the young team's performance is markedly improved with say, four or five wins and competitive losses, it would be very hard to abandon the sport on a strong up-tick in performance.
Now that wasn't so hard to understand was it? Of course, as I clearly stated, that is my opinion....nothing more.
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So the answer to my question is you think they might actually drop football altogether. Not sure why you are trying to make me appear stupid. How am I supposed to know either of the things you mentioned in your first paragraph. I don't live near the UConn campus, follow UConn football, or have season tickets for UConn basketball. I think many people would be shocked to learn that you think UConn might actually drop football. The other scenarios I mentioned are all more logical than UConn dropping football.
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06-22-2019, 11:27 PM
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How many times was Archie committed to UD before leaving?
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06-23-2019, 12:03 AM
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Reading? Yes. Understanding? No.
Originally Posted by longtimefan
So the answer to my question is you think they might actually drop football altogether. Not sure why you are trying to make me appear stupid. How am I supposed to know either of the things you mentioned in your first paragraph. I don't live near the UConn campus, follow UConn football, or have season tickets for UConn basketball. I think many people would be shocked to learn that you think UConn might actually drop football. The other scenarios I mentioned are all more logical than UConn dropping football.
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Logical options? Options aren't the issue.
Last year UConn football set NCAA records....indeed college football records...for futility. I don't know how it possibly could have happened just a half dozen years, or so, from a BCS bowl appearance. The team went 1-11, the one win over a poor FCS opponent. No one expected that . It was a complete surprise...a shock. But, it did happen.
If UConn repeats anything like that this year football will be dropped. The tax payers will insist on it. That's the opinion I expressed. On the other hand, if a corner has been turned and very significant improvement occurs I think UConn will stick with AAC football. They have no interest in another FB conference, independence or FCS FB. It's AAC or nothing, in my opinion.
Those are two clear possibilities...black and white. Life being what it is, a more probable outcome is somewhere in between, e.g., improvement, but still poor performance with a very steep hill to climb. That scenario puts the school on the spot...not really knowing what to do and waiting for circumstances over which they have little/control dictate their near-term fate. I don't think they know what to do.
I surely hope the program improves significantly. (We have not renewed our season TX after many years.)
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06-23-2019, 08:10 AM
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There is one important item that people are overlooking - college football is becoming more and more "under the microscope" from a medical perspective. With head injuries and a proliferation of lawsuits stemming from them, I strongly believe that the future of college football is tentative at best! Football stadiums may in my opinion become relics from the past. That will greatly change the nature of college basketball and could result in the death of the "Power 5" conferences. See this article below...once the lawyers get involved, it is never good.
https://www.si.com/college-football/...rance-premiums
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06-23-2019, 08:26 AM
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This morning's Headline
According to this morning's local headlines UConn will receive an invitation to join the Big East this week....the story reports that it is confirmed.
Not a clue what will happen to football.
UConn was the only AAC school voting against a recently signed TV deal that will have all AAC games streamed on ESPN+ and not on broadcast or cable TV. At the time there was quite a stir about that. The fans were in an uproar.
Back to FB. When/if this actually occurs FB is left without a home "the report states". UConn athletics runs a >$40 million deficit, much of it due to FB, although both men's and women's BB also are in the red by quite a bit. Unsustainable says UConn.
Since nothing will happen for at least a year, I continue to believe that the performance of the FB team this season is likely to be the "deciding factor" as to whether or not the sport it dropped or UConn finds some other route for the program. I cannot see what other viable options exist.
This is a stunner. UConn will give the BE 11 schools meaning BB could go to a H/H 20 game schedule, It doesn't suggest a need to add other BB schools. Right?
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06-23-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
There is one important item that people are overlooking - college football is becoming more and more "under the microscope" from a medical perspective. With head injuries and a proliferation of lawsuits stemming from them, I strongly believe that the future of college football is tentative at best! Football stadiums may in my opinion become relics from the past. That will greatly change the nature of college basketball and could result in the death of the "Power 5" conferences. See this article below...once the lawyers get involved, it is never good.
https://www.si.com/college-football/...rance-premiums
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I fail to see how the end of football will destroy the p5 cartel. IMO, the p5 cartel will still live on even without football.
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06-23-2019, 11:27 AM
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Terrible, terrible news for UD obviously about UConn to the NBE. I guess all that stuff about the NBE being just private schools was bogus.
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06-23-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
This is a stunner. UConn will give the BE 11 schools meaning BB could go to a H/H 20 game schedule, It doesn't suggest a need to add other BB schools. Right?
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UAC, you seem to be very tuned into the happenings in the AAC.
In your opinion, how quickly will the AAC decide if they are going to replace UConn in the event that UConn leaves for the NBE?
When can we expect to hear some news about what the AAC's next move is?
Last edited by ud2; 06-23-2019 at 11:47 AM..
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06-23-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
UConn was the only AAC school voting against a recently signed TV deal that will have all AAC games streamed on ESPN+ and not on broadcast or cable TV. At the time there was quite a stir about that. The fans were in an uproar.
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Your characterization of the AAC TV deal with ESPN is misleading. The AAC deal assigns all Tier 3 broadcast rights to ESPN+. This would hurt UConn in particular as their deal with SNY would be impossible in the future and UConn is unique with a WBB program that actually creates TV demand.
UConn in the Big East should be able to equal or exceed the $7 million they'd get from the AAC deal just with the Fox deal plus whatever they can get from SNY and (probably) Fox/FS1 for Tier 3 (including WBB). That's not even factoring what they might get from football.
Back to FB. When/if this actually occurs FB is left without a home "the report states". UConn athletics runs a >$40 million deficit, much of it due to FB, although both men's and women's BB also are in the red by quite a bit. Unsustainable says UConn.
Since nothing will happen for at least a year, I continue to believe that the performance of the FB team this season is likely to be the "deciding factor" as to whether or not the sport it dropped or UConn finds some other route for the program. I cannot see what other viable options exist.
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There's no doubt that UConn and the state have made huge investments into FBS football, but those are sunk costs and it's clear to most on the outside looking in that UConn will never be able to consistently compete at any respectable level in FBS, 2006 notwithstanding. Now whether they continue to tilt at windmills pursuing that P5 dream remains to be seen.
The Big East has stated that they don't want schools with FBS football that will always be looking for greener pastures. This implies that FBS football in Storrs is short lived. But maybe they're willing to make an exception for UConn:
- Maybe the Big East believes UConn football is dying but is willing to entertain their fantasy knowing that it's not a serious threat anytime soon
- Maybe there's a deal in place to let UConn continue as an FBS independent, knowing that is a non-starter when it comes to P5 aspirations. UConn could theoretically become a self-sustaining football program, playing a few guarantee games, and picking up a few home games against other independents and FCS opponents (and the associated TV rights from aforementioned SNY and FS1 - which they'd be willing to buy to get access to UConn's other valuable Tier 3 properties).
-UConn could go FCS.
-UConn could go football-only in MAC or CUSA. There is zero indication that those conferences will go back on previous statements against that plan, and why would they do it for one of the few football programs that is worse than what they already have?
I think 2) or 3) is most likely. But no matter what, it's a tacit admission from UConn that the P5 is simply not on their radar anytime soon (or more accurately, that they're not on the P5's radar).
Is it really? Not if you've been paying attention.
UConn will give the BE 11 schools meaning BB could go to a H/H 20 game schedule,
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This is a no brainer.
It doesn't suggest a need to add other BB schools. Right?
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If you're talking about UD specifically, that's also a no brainer. UD is not joining the Big East anytime soon. The landscape of that league would have to change dramatically, and they appear stable for a long long time. UD's window to get in the Big East was either to align with the Eastern schools in the 1970s, or by being a power in the early 1990s Great Midwest days, or by being a power in the late 2000s/early 2010s. They passed on one opportunity and missed the other two. And now that Xavier is firmly entrenched in the Big East power structure, with a stated institutional goal of becoming the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in Ohio (a goal which necessarily includes passing UD - and they've got a long way to go in all areas except MBB), why would Xavier allow the University of Dayton any possibility of advancing their institutional profile, including conference affiliation?
Will anybody else join the Big East anytime soon? I think it's unlikely, but a few points:
- Now that the Big East has broken the fourth wall and allied with a public institution (presumably), that opens the door to other publics that may distinguish themselves in the future (VCU and Wichita State come to mind)
- The future of college football is in doubt. Maybe somebody like Wake Forest or Vandy or Boston College or Duke or Pitt or Syracuse decides to drop football. I think the door would be open to one of them in a heartbeat.
- Maybe Notre Dame's ACC affiliation isn't as solid as it appears. If they insist on staying independent in football (a mistake imo), they may be looking for a new conference home in ten years.
- Maybe Gonzaga joins the Big East (who knows, maybe the hyperloop becomes reality and travel times become a moot point)
The reality is that UD is on the outside looking in when it comes to the Big East and that's unlikely to change. If you harbor hopes that it could still happen, I invite you to join me in Realville. The only possible path I see that puts UD in the Big East would involve a major run of success (I'm talking 2 Final Fours in eight years type success), making them irresistible to other Big East schools, and even then, they'd probably have to have an opening.
Like UConn gave up on their P5 dream (apparently), it's time for UD to give up on the Big East dream and make the best of their situation like UConn is (apparently) doing. It's time to pursue membership in the AAC or form a new conference of committed non-FBS schools.
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06-23-2019, 12:00 PM
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Options for UConn FB
UConn is saying that they intend to stick with FBS FB, although they admit they have no plan at the moment. One thing they are stating with crystal clarity is that they consider UConn to be a premier BB school and they are acting to protect the crown jewels. Over the past 25 years during which there were 50 m/w national champions, UConn men and women have won 14 national championships. Not too shabby.
OK, football. It's possible but not likely that the AAC will allow UConn to stay for FB past this upcoming season. UConn has no interest in FCS FB and no interest in another conference. That much is clear.
The most likely path is as an independent. As for scheduling difficulty, top programs are willing to pay for buy games. For example, UConn is on Clemson's schedule in a year or two, for which UConn will be paid $1 million. Other conferences like the Big Ten, for example have often scheduled UConn H and H; so they should be willing to engage in buy games.
Because of favorable geography I think UConn would have no trouble having at least one service academy on its schedule every year. For a variety of reasons scheduling good opponents as an independent should be possible.
Nonetheless, the a factor determining the viability of such a plan remains producing a competitive team. Opponents and fans will require that. For that reason I continue to believe that a deciding factor if not "the" deciding factor will be the performance of the FB team this season as regards continuation of UConn FB.
It will not be possible to schedule or recruit unless the team becomes respectable. Last season it was not; this season it must be. A respectable team, TV exposure, and a solid schedule will be attractive to fans and HS recruits. A repeat of last year will undermine the possibility of decent scheduling and recruiting. That's why I believe performance this season is so critical for the future.
Meanwhile, for the Big East, adding an 11th school and going to a 20 game H/H format (my guess) would appear to settle the BE for the foreseeable future. A relatively big state school and 10 Catholics...what a fit!
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06-23-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
Your characterization of the AAC TV deal with ESPN is misleading. The AAC deal assigns all Tier 3 broadcast rights to ESPN+. This would hurt UConn in particular as their deal with SNY would be impossible in the future and UConn is unique with a WBB program that actually creates TV demand.
UConn in the Big East should be able to equal or exceed the $7 million they'd get from the AAC deal just with the Fox deal plus whatever they can get from SNY and (probably) Fox/FS1 for Tier 3 (including WBB). That's not even factoring what they might get from football.
Stunner
Is it really? Not if you've been paying attention
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A thorough summary sheg: Re your TV comments, UConn fans were very upset by the AAC TV deal. That was a key reason UConn voted against the ESPN deal. Further, UConn will not get full TV benefit from the BE Fox deal for six years...and will have to pay the AAC a multi-million exit fee. For a few years this change will be costly for UConn.
Re my comment "stunner"....I have been paying attention. The BE is comprised of ten "smallish" Catholic schools. Those schools and UConn both have experience with the importance of "institutional compatibility" from their old BE days. And that experience was not good. But at least there was a degree of balance among the small privates and the large publics. This time there will be no balance for UConn. Offsetting that is UConn's desperation.
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06-23-2019, 12:51 PM
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Sorry longtime. I did misread your post
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06-23-2019, 12:54 PM
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End Game
We were never getting into the BE, so all the UConn news means is that we can finally quit talking about it.
The FAR more troubling news is that it sounds like we are also going to be left out of AAC expansion. Mark my words: if Dayton is not invited to the AAC on this go round we will be stuck in the Atlantic 10 forever.
Might as well shut this thread down and start a new one called "How to improve the A10." Unfortunately, current A10 brass has had zero interest whatsoever in being proactive on this issue (post-2013 anyway). Deservedly they are about to pay mightily.
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06-23-2019, 12:58 PM
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UConn is at an advantage in a conference with ten small schools. Their ego tells them they can compete anyway (and Nova does have two recent nattys, so they may not be wrong).
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06-23-2019, 01:12 PM
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Conference within a conference
Originally Posted by hawkoooo
We were never getting into the BE, so all the UConn news means is that we can finally quit talking about it.
The FAR more troubling news is that it sounds like we are also going to be left out of AAC expansion. Mark my words: if Dayton is not invited to the AAC on this go round we will be stuck in the Atlantic 10 forever.
Might as well shut this thread down and start a new one called "How to improve the A10." Unfortunately, current A10 brass has had zero interest whatsoever in being proactive on this issue (post-2013 anyway). Deservedly they are about to pay mightily.
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Seems to me that this and the new scheduling dynamic fuels the desirability of OOC games among the few A10 schools that really do consider Top Tier BB as a priority. There are important advantages to being in a conference...the A10 provides them. In the new scheduling climate there appear to be advantages to being a "quasi independent". Why shouldn't three or four top A10 schools join to play round-robin OOC games? UD, VCU, URI, SLU...any other candidates? These four have ave attendance well above the league average of ~ 4800. Attendance is a pretty good measure of institutional importance, in my opinion.
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06-23-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Seems to me that this and the new scheduling dynamic fuels the desirability of OOC games among the few A10 schools that really do consider Top Tier BB as a priority. There are important advantages to being in a conference...the A10 provides them. In the new scheduling climate there appear to be advantages to being a "quasi independent". Why shouldn't three or four top A10 schools join to play round-robin OOC games? UD, VCU, URI, SLU...any other candidates? These four have ave attendance well above the league average of ~ 4800. Attendance is a pretty good measure of institutional importance, in my opinion.
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I like this idea, but we already play URI, VCU and SLU twice. I'd love to play Davidson twice, so that could work. Maybe Mason or SBU?
Are there rules (NCAA/A10) about scheduling conference opponents outside of conference play?
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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06-23-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
Ud is stuck in the A10. The only out we have is start a new conference but that’s more work then might be worth.
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Might be worth the trouble. Pick off some teams from other conferences and drop the A10 dead weight.
How does this look?:
New league:
Dayton
Rhode Island
Davidson
Saint Louis
Vermont
WKU
Murray State
Belmont
Northern Iowa
MTSU
That is a pretty attractive, pretty solid conference IMO.
10 teams, 20 game league schedule
Drop:
St. Bonaventure
GW
Richmond
George Mason
St. Joseph
UMass
Duquesne
Fordham
LaSalle
I might be willing to give George Mason more time to get their act together.
And maybe see how St. Joe's does with their new coach.
Also consider:
Old Dominion
Northeastern
Charleston
Iona
Last edited by ud2; 06-23-2019 at 03:13 PM..
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06-23-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Might be worth the trouble. Pick off some teams from other conferences and drop the A10 dead weight.
How does this look?:
New league:
Dayton
Rhode Island
Davidson
Saint Louis
Vermont
WKU
Murray State
Belmont
Northern Iowa
MTSU
That is a pretty attractive, pretty solid conference IMO.
10 teams, 20 game league schedule
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You need 11 teams for a 20 game round robin schedule. If we could just drop 3 or 4 teams from the A-10, that would improve things, but that will never happen. And I don't think UD will ever go out and form a new conference. I'm hoping the AAC adds a couple basketball schools (us and VCU). That is our only hope of improving conferences in the foreseeable future. If some football schools leave the AAC (which some on here are afraid of) then add some basketball schools from other conferences. The AAC would be a very attractive conference with a nucleus of Wichita State, VCU, UD, and a few others.
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06-23-2019, 03:55 PM
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We've been told repeatedly that UD has no interest in the AAC, and I don't think the AAC has any interest in us. Might as well stop talking about that the same as we should stop talking about UD in the NBE. It's never going to happen. Either teams in the A10 make a commitment to basketball or we have to find/start a new conference. And while we are waiting, we'd better start dominating the one we are in.
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06-23-2019, 04:35 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by ud2
Might be worth the trouble. Pick off some teams from other conferences and drop the A10 dead weight.
How does this look?:
New league:
Dayton
Rhode Island
Davidson
Saint Louis
Vermont
WKU
Murray State
Belmont
Northern Iowa
MTSU
That is a pretty attractive, pretty solid conference IMO.
10 teams, 20 game league schedule
Drop:
St. Bonaventure
GW
Richmond
George Mason
St. Joseph
UMass
Duquesne
Fordham
LaSalle
I might be willing to give George Mason more time to get their act together.
And maybe see how St. Joe's does with their new coach.
Also consider:
Old Dominion
Northeastern
Charleston
Iona
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Old Dominion, Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee won't leave for a non football conference
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06-23-2019, 05:07 PM
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We are EXACTLY where we deserve to be.
Wishing isn't a solution to anything you want. Consistently winning is. Let's take the first step in 2019-20.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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06-23-2019, 05:07 PM
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General
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Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/s...eaming-up.html
100 million reasons for the Big East to go grab St. Louis
VCU, St. Louis get poached out of the A10 and the conference is on a fast track to a 1 bid league
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06-23-2019, 05:46 PM
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That extra $100M for 2 teams doesn’t add anything to the current teams if evenly distributed
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06-23-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
We've been told repeatedly that UD has no interest in the AAC
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Who is saying this? A few posters on this board? I've not seen this reported in the news or seen any quotes from University officials. It would defy logic for UD not to be interested in the AAC.
Also, we know for a fact that the AAC is interested in UD, as they and VCU were reportedly considered when the conference added WSU. Do you have have any evidence for these two seemingly impossible assertions?
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06-23-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
That extra $100M for 2 teams doesn’t add anything to the current teams if evenly distributed
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UConn per reporting isn’t going get equal shares for a least 5 years similar to Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers when they joined the B1G
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06-23-2019, 08:49 PM
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Speaking of the A-10, I might be wrong but in the first two rounds of the NBA draft, no one was taken from the A-10.
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06-23-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
If you're talking about UD specifically, that's also a no brainer. UD is not joining the Big East anytime soon. The landscape of that league would have to change dramatically, and they appear stable for a long long time.
And now that Xavier is firmly entrenched in the Big East power structure, with a stated institutional goal of becoming the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in Ohio (a goal which necessarily includes passing UD - and they've got a long way to go in all areas except MBB), why would Xavier allow the University of Dayton any possibility of advancing their institutional profile, including conference affiliation?
Will anybody else join the Big East anytime soon? I think it's unlikely, but a few points:
Like UConn gave up on their P5 dream (apparently), it's time for UD to give up on the Big East dream and make the best of their situation like UConn is (apparently) doing. It's time to pursue membership in the AAC or form a new conference of committed non-FBS schools.
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I doubt that Xavier has unanimous veto power. The TV contract called for possible expansion to 12 teams, we might still have a chance.
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06-23-2019, 09:41 PM
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Colonel
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Yeah but are the other members going to vote against the stated wishes of their colleague barring a candidate that is so irresistible that they would willingly defy those wishes?
The Big East is simply not a realistic goal for UD.
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06-23-2019, 10:21 PM
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OK, scratch the BE,...
Originally Posted by sheg
Yeah but are the other members going to vote against the stated wishes of their colleague barring a candidate that is so irresistible that they would willingly defy those wishes?
The Big East is simply not a realistic goal for UD.
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So, we can't realistically covet BE membership.
Could there be a small consolation prize? We can't schedule top-tier schools Neil finds out. Understood. But perhaps we can schedule one, UConn. UConn will be playing regularly nearby, Cincinnati and Indianapolis. As for the top programs wanting to avoid the Arena, which one referred to as a "death trap",....I doubt Dan Hurley would be intimidated by the Arena. URI has always given Dayton fits whether in Kingston or at the Arena no matter who was coaching URI.
A possibility, maybe?
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06-24-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
Who is saying this? A few posters on this board? I've not seen this reported in the news or seen any quotes from University officials. It would defy logic for UD not to be interested in the AAC.
Also, we know for a fact that the AAC is interested in UD, as they and VCU were reportedly considered when the conference added WSU. Do you have have any evidence for these two seemingly impossible assertions?
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From multiple sources on multiple boards, people who would know.
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06-24-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
From multiple sources on multiple boards, people who would know.
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That doesn't really clear much up, but I really hope you are wrong. Starting a new conference will never happen (and why would other schools follow our lead anyway?). The AAC is the only light at the end of the tunnel and it is a dim light as is.
RE Xavier's veto power, I believe the by-laws require three schools to veto. If there is a 12th team added it would seem Saint Louis has the edge over Dayton and now VCU as well given the public school exception has already been made once.
I'm surprised Rollo's post got so many likes. The goal is to be in the best conference possible right, but essentially his argument is that we don't deserve it? So is Rollo suggesting that if given an invite to a better conference we would say no because we didn't "dominate" the A10 first? How on Earth is that an argument?
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06-24-2019, 09:07 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by rollo
We are EXACTLY where we deserve to be.
Wishing isn't a solution to anything you want. Consistently winning is. Let's take the first step in 2019-20.
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...and sadly, DePaul is NOT where they deserve to be.
B.E. conf record on average since joining: 4-14
Overall record three seasons prior to "earning" invitation to B.E.:
8-25, 13-19, 12-21
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06-24-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68
Speaking of the A-10, I might be wrong but in the first two rounds of the NBA draft, no one was taken from the A-10.
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That is correct, but Marial Shayok, the son of former UD player Makur Shayok, was drafted at #54 to Philadelphia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marial_Shayok
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019...aft_selections
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06-24-2019, 09:46 AM
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He meant it!
Originally Posted by jack72
Nice article on the BE. Look about halfway down where the Commish says, no plans to expand.
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From what I'm reading locally the BE didn't have plans to expand. But when approached by UConn the BE recognized an unexpected opportunity to significantly strengthen its brand by adding a marquis BB name very well known to the conference and a good fit geographically...an opportunity it could not pass up. Also, UConn's move clearly signaled that while playing FBS FB, for the new entry basketball was the top priority, first and foremost.
Further, local reporting claims that for UConn the new AAC TV contract focused on ESPN+ streaming was the straw the broke the camels back. That deal hurt UConn and its weakening fan base was howling.
An attempt at FB independence appears to be the best option...although nothing has been decided. UConn would prefer to remain in the AAC as a FB-only member. But that is highly unlikely. As an independent UConn could schedule away buy games, e.g., $1 million plus at Clemson in 2021 and/or two-for-one games. UMass is expected to be on the schedule every year and with Army/Navy so close and such great draws they are likely to be regulars. What would help enormously would be if "long time friends" from the old Big East were willing to help out with scheduling, e.g. Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, even Boston College. BC is not likely to be helpful for two reasons: residual bad blood from the old BE severance and the fact that BC considers itself New England's sole FB team and vastly superior to UConn in all ways. UConn has played quite a few Big Ten teams in the past. That could continue, at least for the bottom half of the BT.
Independence is doable if others are willing to help out. It won't be easy though. FB scheduling is more complicated than BB in that scheduling is done years in advance...often many years. And a/the key factor is being able to field a competitive team....no sure thing. This season holds the key to that.
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06-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
That doesn't really clear much up, but I really hope you are wrong. Starting a new conference will never happen (and why would other schools follow our lead anyway?). The AAC is the only light at the end of the tunnel and it is a dim light as is.
RE Xavier's veto power, I believe the by-laws require three schools to veto. If there is a 12th team added it would seem Saint Louis has the edge over Dayton and now VCU as well given the public school exception has already been made once.
I'm surprised Rollo's post got so many likes. The goal is to be in the best conference possible right, but essentially his argument is that we don't deserve it? So is Rollo suggesting that if given an invite to a better conference we would say no because we didn't "dominate" the A10 first? How on Earth is that an argument?
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I stated that we are exactly where we deserve to be...and where every other inconsistent and under-performing A10 team would be with similar resumes. The BigEast wants winners and or huge markets. My Team hasn’t given them either in my 25+ years as a season ticket holder.
If you’re of the ilk who think we deserve a Big East bid, maybe you also agree that Tim Tebow should get a call-up from the Mets. After all, he was on a roll last season at AA before the hand injury.
King Rollo the Big Oil Tycoon....OUT!
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06-24-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
I'm surprised Rollo's post got so many likes. The goal is to be in the best conference possible right, but essentially his argument is that we don't deserve it? So is Rollo suggesting that if given an invite to a better conference we would say no because we didn't "dominate" the A10 first? How on Earth is that an argument?
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Of course not - you never look a gift horse in the mouth, however I shouldn’t expect or gripe about not winning the lottery if I always only choose 5 numbers not 6.
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06-24-2019, 11:24 AM
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A lot of this can be cured, over time, starting with this season and dominating our non-con and league. Then doing it again next year, and the year after. And if we do that, when the next realignment happens, we'll have real options.
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06-24-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg
Yeah but are the other members going to vote against the stated wishes of their colleague barring a candidate that is so irresistible that they would willingly defy those wishes?
The Big East is simply not a realistic goal for UD.
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Fair enough, but if we start outperforming the other candidates, such as SLU, VCU, maybe Wichita State, etc., if/when Fox asks for a 12 team, then maybe we have a chance, you never know.
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06-24-2019, 12:05 PM
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If UConn goes to BE and VCU goes to AAC, the only long term hope to escape the A10 is to consistently win the A10. Then UD needs to hope one last P5 expansion occurs. It would need to take 3-4 football schools from the AAC. At that point, perhaps the AAC disintegrates for a number of reasons including the large costs associated with scholarship football. One or more of the AAC schools that don’t make the cut may decide to deemphasize football and look to form a basketball centered conference that would include VCU, Wichita St. and HOPEFULLY UD. If only one or two get picked off (UC/Houston come to mind), I think the AAC would backfill from either Mtn. West, CUSA, or Sunbelt.
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06-24-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
If UConn goes to BE and VCU goes to AAC, the only long term hope to escape the A10 is to consistently win the A10. Then UD needs to hope one last P5 expansion occurs. It would need to take 3-4 football schools from the AAC. At that point, perhaps the AAC disintegrates for a number of reasons including the large costs associated with scholarship football. One or more of the AAC schools that don’t make the cut may decide to deemphasize football and look to form a basketball centered conference that would include VCU, Wichita St. and HOPEFULLY UD. If only one or two get picked off (UC/Houston come to mind), I think the AAC would backfill from either Mtn. West, CUSA, or Sunbelt.
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If this was going to happen I think it already would have. What P5 conference right now is interested in AAC teams? The Big12 already passed on this idea and now have no incentive to get to 12 given the conference championship game rule change.
Now what could still happen is the Big 12 getting raided and conferences like the AAC/MW/A10 potentially getting some of the scraps.
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06-24-2019, 01:40 PM
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Focus, innovation...
I really think we should be focused on the things we have some control over, i.e., winning and A10 innovation/improvement.
Re the latter, there are many advantages to belonging to a conference that's a pretty good institutional fit. It just so happens that when if comes to men's BB only a few A10 schools share our lofty goals.
So, why fight the likes of Fordham, LaSalle, etc. Instead, proactively initiate cooperation among the three or four A10 schools that share, essentially, our lofty post season goals. I suggest URI, SLU, VCU, maybe one or two others.
Given the near impossibility of creating the OOC schedule we would like, within the A10 umbrella initiate OOC games with the group so identified.
In addition to easing the burden of scheduling, I think such a move would reinvigorate the A10 improving the level of play for most schools, including the ones not in the round robin group. How's that? Human nature. What school wants to be labeled or thought of as being in the conference second tier? And what school in the round robin group of four or five wants to be the one that always gets beat?
This sort of movement would apply not-too-subtle pressure on all the schools without annoying or alienating any of them. It represents an entirely different approach than badgering the group to improve recruiting and facilities. Only those schools that are serious do the things necessary to excel...but everyone feels the pressure. Indeed, it's conceivable that a school or two might conclude that it would fit better in another conference.
Think about it. Longtimer, what do you think of such an approach?
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06-24-2019, 01:41 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
A lot of this can be cured, over time, starting with this season and dominating our non-con and league. Then doing it again next year, and the year after. And if we do that, when the next realignment happens, we'll have real options.
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This.
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06-24-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
A lot of this can be cured, over time, starting with this season and dominating our non-con and league. Then doing it again next year, and the year after. And if we do that, when the next realignment happens, we'll have real options.
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This squared
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06-24-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
A lot of this can be cured, over time, starting with this season and dominating our non-con and league. Then doing it again next year, and the year after. And if we do that, when the next realignment happens, we'll have real options.
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This Cubed
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06-24-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
I really think we should be focused on the things we have some control over, i.e., winning and A10 innovation/improvement.
Re the latter, there are many advantages to belonging to a conference that's a pretty good institutional fit. It just so happens that when if comes to men's BB only a few A10 schools share our lofty goals.
So, why fight the likes of Fordham, LaSalle, etc. Instead, proactively initiate cooperation among the three or four A10 schools that share, essentially, our lofty post season goals. I suggest URI, SLU, VCU, maybe one or two others.
Given the near impossibility of creating the OOC schedule we would like, within the A10 umbrella initiate OOC games with the group so identified.
In addition to easing the burden of scheduling, I think such a move would reinvigorate the A10 improving the level of play for most schools, including the ones not in the round robin group. How's that? Human nature. What school wants to be labeled or thought of as being in the conference second tier? And what school in the round robin group of four or five wants to be the one that always gets beat?
This sort of movement would apply not-too-subtle pressure on all the schools without annoying or alienating any of them. It represents an entirely different approach than badgering the group to improve recruiting and facilities. Only those schools that are serious do the things necessary to excel...but everyone feels the pressure. Indeed, it's conceivable that a school or two might conclude that it would fit better in another conference.
Think about it. Longtimer, what do you think of such an approach?
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I think we need to take this to the next logical step. I proposed several years ago (in the midst of the five game A-10 losing streak in the E8 season) that we form an informal secondary conference with top tier non-P5 programs.
Base membership on a five year rolling RPI average. Take the top 12 programs, divide into pods of four (divide based on geography or not), and play a double round robin in your pod. Preset the dates at the end of the previous season to allow enough time to build the rest of the non-con. Avoid dates during or just before/after exempt tourneys. That “should” guarantee four additional quad 1/2 games per season.
Or, we continue doing the same thing we’ve been doing and hope for the best.
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06-25-2019, 07:27 AM
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Alas
Originally Posted by Viperstick
I think we need to take this to the next logical step. I proposed several years ago (in the midst of the five game A-10 losing streak in the E8 season) that we form an informal secondary conference with top tier non-P5 programs.
Base membership on a five year rolling RPI average. Take the top 12 programs, divide into pods of four (divide based on geography or not), and play a double round robin in your pod. Preset the dates at the end of the previous season to allow enough time to build the rest of the non-con. Avoid dates during or just before/after exempt tourneys. That “should” guarantee four additional quad 1/2 games per season.
Or, we continue doing the same thing we’ve been doing and hope for the best.
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Alas, too complicated I fear.
In my opinion the best approach is working within the framework of the A10. We could start small...perhaps playing an OOC game with only one other A10 partner, for example. In a few years such a plan could grow to involve three or four others. There are good programs in the A10. This would take some of the pressure off scheduling and provide OOC games significantly better than possible otherwise..and they wouldn't be buy games.
And I do believe that constructive pressure for other A10 schools to improve would be a bonus.
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06-25-2019, 10:58 AM
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Re SLU
Originally Posted by CT Flyer
The only reason to expand to 12 is because Fox has said they would up their package substantially if the NBE goes to 12 teams. Money does talk so who knows over the next few years, although St. Louis with a bigger TV market is probably more attractive.
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SLU is quite a bit more attractive, in my opinion. There is the TV aspect as you've pointed out. There is also geography, with SLU forming bridge between isolated Creighton and the rest of the conference, Then there is the Jesuit issue.
We'd better keep our eye on the A10 ball. It's far from hopeless...just needs a bit of innovative beefing up...led by Neil.
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06-25-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick
I think we need to take this to the next logical step. I proposed several years ago (in the midst of the five game A-10 losing streak in the E8 season) that we form an informal secondary conference with top tier non-P5 programs.
Base membership on a five year rolling RPI average. Take the top 12 programs, divide into pods of four (divide based on geography or not), and play a double round robin in your pod. Preset the dates at the end of the previous season to allow enough time to build the rest of the non-con. Avoid dates during or just before/after exempt tourneys. That “should” guarantee four additional quad 1/2 games per season.
Or, we continue doing the same thing we’ve been doing and hope for the best.
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This could be very doable. UD could take the lead - own it, hype it and sell it to Fox/ESPN, etc. Don't have to make a lot of money - it's about the exposure. Could lead to a new conference in 5+ years that would be at least better than the A10. Maybe quietly but actively bar any other A10 team in order to put pressure on the A10 to clear out the deadwood/send a message - not sure about this, need to think this through. Between this and our consistent non-conference tournament appearances it is a great proactive move.
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06-25-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
The only reason to expand to 12 is because Fox has said they would up their package substantially if the NBE goes to 12 teams. Money does talk so who knows over the next few years, although St. Louis with a bigger TV market is probably more attractive.
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CT Flyer: I always hear about the "size of the TV market," but how does that compare to the actual "TV viewership?" My guess is the actual viewership in the Dayton market is much larger than that of the Saint Louis market. So, does size matter or does viewership trump size?
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06-25-2019, 11:22 AM
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For better or worse, I don't think we'll see the Big East expand anytime soon. They seem to be in love with their double round robin, adding UConn back into the fold and making it a 20 game conference schedule fits in well with what most other power conferences are doing.
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06-25-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
CT Flyer: I always hear about the "size of the TV market," but how does that compare to the actual "TV viewership?" My guess is the actual viewership in the Dayton market is much larger than that of the Saint Louis market. So, does size matter or does viewership trump size?
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Good question and I've always thought share of the market is a bigger deal than the actual size of the market too. But I'm not sure what is more important to the TV exec.'s and/or the advertisers.
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06-25-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
CT Flyer: I always hear about the "size of the TV market," but how does that compare to the actual "TV viewership?" My guess is the actual viewership in the Dayton market is much larger than that of the Saint Louis market. So, does size matter or does viewership trump size?
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I "think" Dayton is sometimes lumped in with the Cincinnati market in some marketing/tv categories. Either way, the St. Louis market is totally untapped for the NBE even if it is smaller.
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06-25-2019, 12:10 PM
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UConn is taking a chance,,,
Originally Posted by sheg
The Big East has stated that they don't want schools with FBS football that will always be looking for greener pastures. This implies that FBS football in Storrs is short lived. But maybe they're willing to make an exception for UConn:
- Maybe the Big East believes UConn football is dying but is willing to entertain their fantasy knowing that it's not a serious threat anytime soon
But no matter what, it's a tacit admission from UConn that the P5 is simply not on their radar anytime soon (or more accurately, that they're not on the P5's radar).
UConn to the BE...a stunner!
Is it really? Not if you've been paying attention.
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Those "paying attention" know that the BE flatly rejected UConn's appeal over two years ago, largely for the "greener pastures" angle mentioned above. UConn has persuaded the BE that it's commitment is to BB, period. That doesn't mean FB is a gonner. Independence could work with luck and significantly improved performance.
But UConn is taking a calculated risk, albeit a small one. UConn covets the ACC...and has decided the chances of such an opportunity are very small....but not zero.
As Yogi said, "It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future".
It is not impossible to imagine a situation in which a Power 5 like the SEC or Big Ten decides there is even more money to be had by going to 16 teams. To get there they raid the weaker ACC. That puts the ACC is a bind they have yet to experience, i.e., needing to add good schools and finding that not so easy. If such a scenario ever materialized UConn would become an ideal target for the ACC....UConn's dream conference. But UConn has committed to the BIg East as a BB school, arguing that Power 5 membership is no longer on its mind. Until suddenly it is. Then what?
Couldn't happen? We're talking about money...anything can happen. The ACC lost UM because of money, nothing else. Larry Scott, PAC 12 commissioner, has argued that if the FBS schools dropped the conference model entirely and negotiated FB as a group with the TV networks ithe way the NFL does they would get far more money than the way they are going about it now. One day that could happen. As I said anything can happen when money is the driver.
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06-25-2019, 12:26 PM
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Let's take UConns spot in the American. Id rather be there than that a10... It definitely isn't a step down.
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06-25-2019, 12:34 PM
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To me, it all comes down to being a big fish in a small pond - consistently. Creighton, Xavier, Butler. etc have succeeded with this mindset and it paid off. Zaga, somehow, is succeeding but a move to a P5 hasn't happened. Not sure they care, going by their track record. Good for them!
I understand we had our Elite 8 run, but the truth of the matter is we haven't been a very big fish in the A-10 pond much of the time. We tend to like that 2nd or 3rd spot.
We don't have the luxury of claiming "rebuild year(s)" or anything of the sorts with all the movement that's taking place in D1 sports. This year, to me, is do or die. We have to find a way to Dance at the end of the year. Period. If not, some of these other schools, like the Gaels that we'll be playing again this year, Wichita State, etc will continue to edge us out.
Some of the other past A-10 teams are where they are because they beat us. It's a competitive scenario, and we don't stay on top of it. Win the A-10 with consistency and good things will come.
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06-25-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Those "paying attention" know that the BE flatly rejected UConn's appeal over two years ago, largely for the "greener pastures" angle mentioned above. UConn has persuaded the BE that it's commitment is to BB, period. That doesn't mean FB is a gonner. Independence could work with luck and significantly improved performance.
But UConn is taking a calculated risk, albeit a small one. UConn covets the ACC...and has decided the chances of such an opportunity are very small....but not zero.
As Yogi said, "It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future".
It is not impossible to imagine a situation in which a Power 5 like the SEC or Big Ten decides there is even more money to be had by going to 16 teams. To get there they raid the weaker ACC. That puts the ACC is a bind they have yet to experience, i.e., needing to add good schools and finding that not so easy. If such a scenario ever materialized UConn would become an ideal target for the ACC....UConn's dream conference. But UConn has committed to the BIg East as a BB school, arguing that Power 5 membership is no longer on its mind. Until suddenly it is. Then what?
Couldn't happen? We're talking about money...anything can happen. The ACC lost UM because of money, nothing else. Larry Scott, PAC 12 commissioner, has argued that if the FBS schools dropped the conference model entirely and negotiated FB as a group with the TV networks ithe way the NFL does they would get far more money than the way they are going about it now. One day that could happen. As I said anything can happen when money is the driver.
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This has been my general line of thinking. It’s not a matter of if football is negotiated separately from the rest of the conference, but when. It’s not a matter of if the power five moved to 16 teams per conference, but when. And when that happens, the 80 teams in the power five conferences, or dare I say, 64 teams in four Contracted power conferences, RIP big 12, look around at each other and say, what do we need the NCAA for anyway? We have the stars, we can probably pay athletes or something, depending on the political climate, title IX Macy’s to exist, we have 64-ish teams, let’s do our own March tournament. And then, everybody else, welcome to Division II!
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06-25-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
CT Flyer: I always hear about the "size of the TV market," but how does that compare to the actual "TV viewership?" My guess is the actual viewership in the Dayton market is much larger than that of the Saint Louis market. So, does size matter or does viewership trump size?
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Good question and I've always thought share of the market is a bigger deal than the actual size of the market too. But I'm not sure what is more important to the TV exec.'s and/or the advertisers.
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There are 2 things you have to look at when you are looking at TV markets. First, FS1 is a national network and I believe is already on the basic package for every cable/satellite platform. People across the country are already paying for FS1 whether they watch it or not. Them asking the Big East to expand is more about getting more eyeballs on their channel. They would rather add a team from a smaller market that has more people watch the games than a bigger market school that has no support. A school like SLU, does not get very good ratings, even in it's own town. When I travel to SLU, (2 or 3 times a year) I see more Missouri and Illinois fans than SLU fans by a wide margin.
Now with the said, being lumped in between Cincinnati and Indy, people assume we would not add much viewership, which isn't the case. Whenever they release ratings for sporting events, (especially college sports), Dayton, Ohio typically scores very well in the ratings and competes against the much larger markets. That is why ESPN puts us in one of their tourney's every year.
The second thing to look at is when the big conferences expand and the how it looks at TV markets. When the BIG10 expands, TV markets are very important. BTN is really only carried in the areas within it's footprint. So by adding Rutgers and Maryland, they added NYC and DMV to their footprint. This means millions more people are now paying to have the BTN. This is why the TV market debate is more important with the BIG10, ACC, and SEC since they have their own regional networks that play a huge role in funding the athletic departments.
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06-25-2019, 04:26 PM
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Can we stop the bull**** please!!!!!! What UD needs to do is dominate the conference and win everything else is not worth discussing!!!!
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06-25-2019, 05:36 PM
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In the final analysis, that really is the answer.
Get to the Finals in Maui, or even better win it.
Beat St Mary's.
Beat our A10 record of last season.
Sweep VCU and there would be an ocean of respect from the sports writers.
We will have a ton of opportunities to make noise with the schedule Sullivan ultimately puts together.
What our fan base seems to want is 10 primo matchups so we can split them and crow about the 5 we won. The world doesn't work that way anymore.
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06-26-2019, 09:46 AM
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This team needs to win the A10 via the actual conference (no worse than 2nd) and/or win the A10 tournament.They simply need something better than sitting on the edge of their seats at 6 pm Sunday hoping for an invite..Winning the A10 will give them probably 14 wins, getting to the conf. tourney finals another 2 wins (3 if they win it) and probably around 26-27 wins on the year.
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06-26-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
This team needs to win the A10 via the actual conference (no worse than 2nd) and/or win the A10 tournament.They simply need something better than sitting on the edge of their seats at 6 pm Sunday hoping for an invite..Winning the A10 will give them probably 14 wins, getting to the conf. tourney finals another 2 wins (3 if they win it) and probably around 26-27 wins on the year.
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Yep. Unfortunately, as I’ve stated before, we don’t have the luxury of three and four year rebuilds. OB is back this year. We have a much deeper team, excuse time is over.
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06-29-2019, 03:20 AM
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@Brett_McMurphy
Mike Aresco says AAC “will move w/deliberate speed & probably will have pretty good idea of our direction by mid-July. We have several options: stay at 11, add an all-sport member or add a football and/or basketball member. We are strong in all sports & don’t need to do anything”
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07-02-2019, 06:51 PM
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Was listening to SportsSquawk on my way home from work, and heard that UConn’s Men’s BB program is probably going to get slapped with 2 years of probation as a result of violations that happened during the Kevin Ollie era (and Ollie himself is likely to be banned from working for any NCAA program for 3 years). I wonder what that does to their immediate prospects of joining the BE.
And no, I’m not looking at this as “our chance”. I just wonder if Karma isn’t making an appearance here.
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07-02-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Was listening to SportsSquawk on my way home from work, and heard that UConn’s Men’s BB program is probably going to get slapped with 2 years of probation as a result of violations that happened during the Kevin Ollie era (and Ollie himself is likely to be banned from working for any NCAA program for 3 years). I wonder what that does to their immediate prospects of joining the BE.
And no, I’m not looking at this as “our chance”. I just wonder if Karma isn’t making an appearance here.
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By the time they actually start competing in the BE the punishment will have been served.
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07-02-2019, 08:11 PM
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I think we know why they asked the BE to take them now. Yeah, they didn't like the AAC TV contract, but knowing this was coming probably lit the fuse. Didn't want to take the chance of the BE saying no due to this.
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07-02-2019, 08:56 PM
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Not likely,...
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Was listening to SportsSquawk on my way home from work, and heard that UConn’s Men’s BB program is probably going to get slapped with 2 years of probation as a result of violations that happened during the Kevin Ollie era (and Ollie himself is likely to be banned from working for any NCAA program for 3 years). I wonder what that does to their immediate prospects of joining the BE.
And no, I’m not looking at this as “our chance”. I just wonder if Karma isn’t making an appearance here.
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I seriously doubt any serious NCAA action against UConn. Ollie's violations involved technicalities....really trivial stuff. It is said, however, that Ollie was less than truthful when questioned by the NCAA. That could hurt him. But there is no talk in CT suggesting that UConn will be punished in any significant way.
Originally Posted by hawkoooo
By the time they actually start competing in the BE the punishment will have been served.
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UConn will be competing in the BE next year. This season is their last in the AAC.
Re recruiting, UConn anticipates a big lift from the BE. The NYC metro area has a great deal of talent that UConn was able to tap when it played in the original BE. Now with UConn playing schools within easy driving distance of metro NYC it is anticipated that the old HS pipeline will reopen.
In any case the sentiment in CT is that UConn made the right move. Indeed, there has been a significant surge in applications for BB season tickets since the announcement..
The big question mark is about UConn football. They will play buy-games away...$1.2 million to play at Clemson in a year or so. Can they get decent teams to play in CT? UMass is a no-brainer. Army and Navy are close and always are a great draw. I wonder if the men's/women's BB teams can be used as a bargaining chip. Would schools agree to H/H FB games with UConn if UConn agreed to similar deals in BB? I am referring to opponents that UConn would not otherwise schedule in BB. Just a thought.
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07-16-2019, 11:08 PM
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This is a relief. VCU stays in the A10 for now.
Mike Aresco told reporters at American Conference Media Day in Newport that the league has no plans to expand following UConn's departure. Will stay at 11.
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07-16-2019, 11:13 PM
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Just like the BE said it would remain at 10
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07-17-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
This is a relief. VCU stays in the A10 for now.
Mike Aresco told reporters at American Conference Media Day in Newport that the league has no plans to expand following UConn's departure. Will stay at 11.
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There's no real home run get for them out there now. Smart to sit around and evaluate the landscape. If any C-USA or other program really develops they'll be there a couple years down the road
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07-17-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
There's no real home run get for them out there now. Smart to sit around and evaluate the landscape. If any C-USA or other program really develops they'll be there a couple years down the road
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There is nobody else left, and IMO it is unlikely that anybody else develops over the short term. VCU is as close to a home run as the AAC will get. If I was the AAC, I would grab VCU right now and lock them down with some huge exit fee before Fox forces the Big East to expand to 12 and grabs VCU themselves.
VCU recent NCAAT appearances:
2004, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019
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07-17-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
This is a relief. VCU stays in the A10 for now.
Mike Aresco told reporters at American Conference Media Day in Newport that the league has no plans to expand following UConn's departure. Will stay at 11.
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This is both good and bad news. A10 won't get weaker (yet), but Dayton has no chance to upgrade (yet).
I wish we could go back to 16. Sick of 14 and dumb pods. Add Murray State and Belmont.
With 16 you could set up a flexible scheduling method that's seeded. So this year group 1 would be VCU, Davidson, Dayton, and Belmont maybe? At any rate the top 4 teams would play each other twice each year then everyone else once. There'd be surprises where teams in lower tiers outperforms teams in the higher tiers and vice versa, but you would never have a situation like this coming year where UD and Davidson only play once.
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07-17-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
This is both good and bad news. A10 won't get weaker (yet), but Dayton has no chance to upgrade (yet).
I wish we could go back to 16. Sick of 14 and dumb pods. Add Murray State and Belmont.
With 16 you could set up a flexible scheduling method that's seeded. So this year group 1 would be VCU, Davidson, Dayton, and Belmont maybe? At any rate the top 4 teams would play each other twice each year then everyone else once. There'd be surprises where teams in lower tiers outperforms teams in the higher tiers and vice versa, but you would never have a situation like this coming year where UD and Davidson only play once.
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I'd almost rather drop 3 teams and go to our own 20 game double round robin.
Who would I drop? Glad you asked. It's kind of a tough question for me since most teams have had moments (seasons) of strong play here or there. And it's tough to avoid the recency bias. That said, forced to choose, I'd drop Fordham, Duquesne, and LaSalle. Smaller arenas (which they don't sell out) and a lack of sustained success.
I know there is more to the conversation than just basketball, but I would love if the A10 explored that option.
One of our SOS problems right now is the impact of the bottom of our conference. More games against VCU, URI, Davidson, etc is good for all of the teams involved.
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07-17-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
I'd almost rather drop 3 teams and go to our own 20 game double round robin.
Who would I drop? Glad you asked. It's kind of a tough question for me since most teams have had moments (seasons) of strong play here or there. And it's tough to avoid the recency bias. That said, forced to choose, I'd drop Fordham, Duquesne, and LaSalle. Smaller arenas (which they don't sell out) and a lack of sustained success.
I know there is more to the conversation than just basketball, but I would love if the A10 explored that option.
One of our SOS problems right now is the impact of the bottom of our conference. More games against VCU, URI, Davidson, etc is good for all of the teams involved.
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Agree. Unfortunately I don't think the league leadership has the stomach for it.
I'd drop Fordham and LaSalle. UMass is likely to go somewhere else due to football so they are the third.
Duquesne, GW would be on notice that they'll need to work on their programs or replacement will be investigated. Duquesne at least has ambition plans to renovate Paulmbo which s a good start.
I'm worried about what St. Joe's is gonna look like after Martelli.
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07-17-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
I'd almost rather drop 3 teams and go to our own 20 game double round robin.
Who would I drop? Glad you asked. It's kind of a tough question for me since most teams have had moments (seasons) of strong play here or there. And it's tough to avoid the recency bias. That said, forced to choose, I'd drop Fordham, Duquesne, and LaSalle. Smaller arenas (which they don't sell out) and a lack of sustained success.
I know there is more to the conversation than just basketball, but I would love if the A10 explored that option.
One of our SOS problems right now is the impact of the bottom of our conference. More games against VCU, URI, Davidson, etc is good for all of the teams involved.
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Fats: I could not agree more; I think that would be a very positive step for the conference. Unfortunately, there is no way the Eastern pinheads from NYC and Philly would ever drop those teams. After all, these two cities are the two most prominent cities in the East and the markets are simply too large to exit...at least in their minds.
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07-22-2019, 08:33 AM
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I read a few articles on potential AAC expansion, and at least on the football side, it sort of sounded like expansion did not make sense unless Boise State or BYU was going to be the team added.
There did not seem to be much enthusiasm for anyone other than those 2. Adding anybody else was sort of viewed as cannibalizing existing revenues, and it seemed that the more prudent move would be just to stay at 11. They want a 12th team only if that 12th team adds value. So, maybe they follow the Big 12's lead and do not add anybody and follow the "Big 12/boutique conference" model.
Adding somebody just for the sake of adding them in order to get to some arbitrary even number of teams seems to be an idea that has run its course and is no longer viewed favorably.
Per the AAC commissioner, UConn seemed to be not welcome at all to leave any teams at all in the AAC if their basketball team was joining the Big East, so I guess UConn football will either be forced to go independent, which sounds very difficult, or fold/drop out of d1.
So, perhaps there is no plan to replace UConn for now. Seemed to be good news.
Last edited by ud2; 07-22-2019 at 08:41 AM..
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07-27-2019, 12:47 AM
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UConn pays the AAC $17 million to leave the AAC. AAC rules stated that 27 months notice must be given along with paying $12 million. The $17 mil figure was negotiated.
UConn football also going independent after this year.
https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/1802964
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09-17-2019, 12:02 AM
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Something that's dissipated from college basketball's consciousness for now but will be interesting to follow in the coming months: does the American Athletic Conference opt to replace UConn with any program, or will it stick with its reduction of 11 programs once UConn leaves in the summer? I think it's the latter, though I've been told that a school like VCU for hoops would obviously greatly entice the American.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...019-20-season/
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09-17-2019, 01:14 AM
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Why do they have McKinley Wright #8 on their player watch list. I did a comparo of stats between MW and Jalen last year and they were almost a dead heat after you throw out the highs and lows for each player. The difference was splitting hairs in what you valued more.
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09-17-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Why do they have McKinley Wright #8 on their player watch list. I did a comparo of stats between MW and Jalen last year and they were almost a dead heat after you throw out the highs and lows for each player. The difference was splitting hairs in what you valued more.
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And why is Obi not on the list. Already known as a stud?
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09-17-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Why do they have McKinley Wright #8 on their player watch list. I did a comparo of stats between MW and Jalen last year and they were almost a dead heat after you throw out the highs and lows for each player. The difference was splitting hairs in what you valued more.
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A few reasons come to mind:
1.) MW plays in a larger conference. All things considered equal the larger conference player will get the hype/pub.
2.) The advanced stats favor MW. Not by a ton, but he shows up better there.
3.) MW is a better on-ball defender (two time PAC12 all-defensive team honorable mention). I love JC, but defense has never been his strong suit.
4.) Importance to their team in 2019-2020. No doubt JC has been a critical piece of the team the last 2 years. Our depth this year will diminish our reliance on JC (which is a good thing). I could see scenarios in close games where we turn to RC for his defense. Maybe we have them both out there. MW will be critical in CU's success this year. No chance he comes off the floor down the stretch in a close game.
All that said, none of that means MW is better than JC. It just means we shouldn't be surprised when MW gets more pub from the national media.
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09-17-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Why do they have McKinley Wright #8 on their player watch list. I did a comparo of stats between MW and Jalen last year and they were almost a dead heat after you throw out the highs and lows for each player. The difference was splitting hairs in what you valued more.
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Or maybe they saw who lead their team better when they played head to head last year.
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09-17-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
A few reasons come to mind:
1.) MW plays in a larger conference. All things considered equal the larger conference player will get the hype/pub.
2.) The advanced stats favor MW. Not by a ton, but he shows up better there.
3.) MW is a better on-ball defender (two time PAC12 all-defensive team honorable mention). I love JC, but defense has never been his strong suit.
4.) Importance to their team in 2019-2020. No doubt JC has been a critical piece of the team the last 2 years. Our depth this year will diminish our reliance on JC (which is a good thing). I could see scenarios in close games where we turn to RC for his defense. Maybe we have them both out there. MW will be critical in CU's success this year. No chance he comes off the floor down the stretch in a close game.
All that said, none of that means MW is better than JC. It just means we shouldn't be surprised when MW gets more pub from the national media.
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I agree with lots of this but I still don't think JC will be taken off the floor down the stretch of games. Perhaps, as you mention, he and RC may both be out there, but I think AG trusts JC and he'll be his guy down the stretch.
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09-17-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Or maybe they saw who lead their team better when they played head to head last year.
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Wouldn't it be great if they could play another game against each other on a neutral court, not at altitude when the Flyers have a little bit better of a bench?
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09-17-2019, 07:50 PM
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FBS Independents
Originally Posted by ud2
I read a few articles on potential AAC expansion, and at least on the football side, it sort of sounded like expansion did not make sense unless Boise State or BYU was going to be the team added.
There did not seem to be much enthusiasm for anyone other than those 2. Adding anybody else was sort of viewed as cannibalizing existing revenues, and it seemed that the more prudent move would be just to stay at 11. They want a 12th team only if that 12th team adds value. So, maybe they follow the Big 12's lead and do not add anybody and follow the "Big 12/boutique conference" model.
Adding somebody just for the sake of adding them in order to get to some arbitrary even number of teams seems to be an idea that has run its course and is no longer viewed favorably.
Per the AAC commissioner, UConn seemed to be not welcome at all to leave any teams at all in the AAC if their basketball team was joining the Big East, so I guess UConn football will either be forced to go independent, which sounds very difficult, or fold/drop out of d1.
So, perhaps there is no plan to replace UConn for now. Seemed to be good news.
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UConn will not be dropping from FBS unless it is demonstrated that it's essentially impossible for it to be competitive at that level. That's why the current season is important for UConn after last year's historical debacle. UConn (the State) has invested heavily in facilities...they don't want to walk away from that. But demonstrating competitiveness is vital.
Playing as an independent is attractive in a few ways that AAC membeship was not. The AAC FB opponents had no appeal for CT fans. As an independent UConn is expected to play UMass every year. Nearby Army may also appear yearly...always a great draw for fans. BYU and New Mexico, also independent, are likley opponents occasionally.
Cooperation from other Northeast schools, especially former Big East opponents, would help enormously, e.g., BC, Pitt, Syracuse. Additionally, Power 5 schools are always looking for cannon fodder....but respectable cannon fodder. Clemson is paying UConn over $1 million to play in SC either next year or the year after.
Difficult? Definitely. Impossible? Only if producing a competitive team capable of entertaining fans is next to impossible. A very young UConn team played well against Illinois last Saturday...a game UConn could have won; they were 21 point underdogs and lost by 8. Next comes Indiana in Bloomington with Uconn a 27 point underdog. UI and IU are not the top of the Big 10; but they are Power 5 opponents. Even in losing UConn has to show it can be competitive.
We can be thankful UD is not battling in the FBS shark tank. It's fun for only a minority of FBS Power 5 schools.
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09-17-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
I agree with lots of this but I still don't think JC will be taken off the floor down the stretch of games. Perhaps, as you mention, he and RC may both be out there, but I think AG trusts JC and he'll be his guy down the stretch.
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Agree!! I thought MN points were well stated. I agree MW to date has played better D then JC. I do not concede that he is a better defender as JC hasn’t really had a chance to show what he can do since we haven’t had a reliable backup PG either year and he played 37 mpg.
I will wait to see what he can do when he’s allowed to play in your face D. Hopefully he’ll show that’s not a weakness but a strength.
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