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  #701  
Old 03-25-2018, 11:42 PM
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Great Midwest 2

So who in the hell is closing threads just because they don't like the topic. Thought this site was open to opinions and discussions. With all the crap you allow on here Chris why close this one.

So go ahead close this one two we'll just open a red 4th or whatever.
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  #702  
Old 03-25-2018, 11:47 PM
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BTW SLUFLYER if you don't like a thread then don't go there, let those who have an opinion express it. Either join it with the appropriate thread, move to off topic but to silence Priders is bush league especially with all the crap that's put on UDPRIDE daily.

Is this msg board for all flyer fans or just a few.

BTW this topic is being discussed on flyerhoops and not being deleted or closed.

Last edited by Avid Flyer; 03-26-2018 at 12:25 AM..
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  #703  
Old 03-25-2018, 11:49 PM
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Maybe we should change the Big East thread to all things conference discussion and keep it all under one roof
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  #704  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:09 AM
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If we're thinking of forming a new conference a national one as I suggested couple years ago made up of West coast, Midwest and east coast teams.

Gonzaga
San Diego
St Mary's

Smu
Byu
Chicago loyola
SLU
Memphis

Dayton
VCU
GW
Duq

Just throwing names out there.

Bball schools play everyone, Olympic sports play teams in b their region to cut down on expenses for travel etc. Winners of each region play for conference title.

Bball playoff like it is now.

Just a thought.

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  #705  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:31 AM
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Is there any way that the A10 could raid CUSA and add Western Kentucky? The WKU football team would have to remain in CUSA.

The Hilltoppers are an attractive program IMO, they have had somewhat regular NCAAT and NIT appearances, and they are in the A10's geographic footprint.

Their arena seats 7,326, but it used to seat 13,508, I was surprised at that large capacity.

And Kobe Bryant's dad played there, lol.

And they are in the NIT Final 4 this year.

Plus, Ray Harper used to be the head man there, what more reason do you need?!?!

Last edited by ud2; 03-26-2018 at 12:46 AM..
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  #706  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:39 AM
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I'd welcome the hilltopers in heartbeat. Just need to drain the A10 and replace with quality teams.

I know UD was at the bottom when they joined but the U committed to the progrsm. Too many presently in the A10 not commited.
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  #707  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:43 AM
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Don't know who decided to close the original GM thread, but agree with Avid about not closing threads. This is a separate thought line from the Big East thread.

That said, the idea of a GM2 makes me want to curl up in the fetal position due to our B-grade horror movie performance over two seasons in the original iteration. I do like the idea of at the very least exploring a conference comprised of the best basketball schools not currently aligned with the P5 and Big East (note, the Big East is not a P5 conference).

While not a spear at Avid by any stretch, could anyone imagine the idea of suggesting a partnership with Loyola two weeks ago? The poster would have been unceremoniously hectored off this board. Shows the power of a single deep run in the tourney...
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  #708  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Is there any way that the A10 could raid CUSA and add Western Kentucky? The WKU football team would have to remain in CUSA.

The Hilltoppers are an attractive program IMO, they have had somewhat regular NCAAT and NIT appearances, and they are in the A10's geographic footprint.

Their arena seats 7,326, but it used to seat 13,508, I was surprised at that large capacity.

And Kobe Bryant's dad played there, lol.

And they are in the NIT Final 4 this year.

Plus, Ray Harper used to be the head man there, what more reason do you need?!?!
They've got the inside the track on the #3 overall player in the class of 2019

https://247sports.com/Player/Charles-Bassey-92754
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  #709  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:54 AM
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I've also posted about a super mid conference with a WC, EC, and MidWest divisions. Play your own division H/A with rotating one or two games against the other two divisions. Ought to be plenty of options out there that could join. Logistics could be difficult but if expenses can be controlled for other sports, seems like it could work.
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  #710  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
So who in the hell is closing threads just because they don't like the topic. Thought this site was open to opinions and discussions. With all the crap you allow on here Chris why close this one.

So go ahead close this one two we'll just open a red 4th or whatever.
I did not close it. I have no idea who closed it. But we don't need 10 conference affiliation threads either. I will do some housekeeping so it's in one thread.
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  #711  
Old 03-26-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
BTW SLUFLYER if you don't like a thread then don't go there, let those who have an opinion express it. Either join it with the appropriate thread, move to off topic but to silence Priders is bush league especially with all the crap that's put on UDPRIDE daily.

Is this msg board for all flyer fans or just a few.

BTW this topic is being discussed on flyerhoops and not being deleted or closed.
It's an open board and I expressed my opinion on the initial thread. The enzo comment was very much a joke, considering I hadn't seen such in years. This won't be the first or last time Avid misses a joke or sarcasm (remember the Grant USA Coaching thread)

Having shared that, yes, it seems plausible that topic should be in the BE thread or the BE thread get renamed. And the idea of restarting a Great Midwest at this juncture in conference dynamics is pretty far fetched - even if the far fetched idea is tossed out over on flyerhoops.

I don't have the admin rights to close a thread, nor would I do such if I did. Not sure I would even know how to either.

Avid, you should chill out a little bit. Go back to the St. Mary's Institute Run in the Tournament thread for some self healing power and spirit.
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  #712  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:09 PM
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Question: if we leave the A-10, do we forfeit the Money not yet paid from the Tournament runs?

To form a new conference, you would probably have to only have basketball schools. I do not believe that schools like UConn, UC, Houston, Memphis, and SMU would be attracted to a no-football conference.

Therefore you have Dayton, Loyola, Drake, St. Louis, Detroit and not much else. Maybe other A-10 schools like Duquense. Feels more like the MCC than the GMW.

I believe that the AAC would be the most high profile option. In talking to someone at UD, Dayton would consider the AAC if they were convinced that UConn was there to stay. UD is well aware that the A-10 is diluted as compared to when we joined. It is just hard to know which way to go. The BE is a no-brainer, but the BE has not asked. Things could get messy in the AAC with more conference reallignment. No great options...
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  #713  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
I believe that the AAC would be the most high profile option. In talking to someone at UD, Dayton would consider the AAC if they were convinced that UConn was there to stay. UD is well aware that the A-10 is diluted as compared to when we joined. It is just hard to know which way to go. The BE is a no-brainer, but the BE has not asked. Things could get messy in the AAC with more conference reallignment. No great options...
For the record, you can find this exact verbiage and detail in the BE thread, in several different posts.
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  #714  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
For the record, you can find this exact verbiage and detail in the BE thread, in several different posts.
It is funny how people actually worry about this stuff...
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  #715  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
It is funny how people actually worry about this stuff...
It's even funnier how people miss it, ignore it or are just completely oblivious to it.....
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  #716  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:26 PM
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Some people have more time on their hands than others...
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  #717  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:26 PM
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I hope the person who closed the thread is not the same person who posts 50 nonsensical posts per day on the Off Topic board. Talk about something (someone) that needs to be shut down. I hate to go over to that board anymore.
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  #718  
Old 03-26-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
Some people have more time on their hands than others...
This is true...
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  #719  
Old 03-26-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
I did not close it. I have no idea who closed it. But we don't need 10 conference affiliation threads either. I will do some housekeeping so it's in one thread.
One thread for all conferences or GM?

I was just about to start a UD to the ACC thread!
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  #720  
Old 03-26-2018, 10:22 PM
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I did not realize that Western Kentucky almost made the NCAAT this year too...they were the 3rd team out on the dance card.

http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance.htm


Ray Harper's legacy is still paying dividends!
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  #721  
Old 03-26-2018, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I did not realize that Western Kentucky almost made the NCAAT this year too...they were the 3rd team out on the dance card.

http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance.htm


Ray Harper's legacy is still paying dividends!
Stansbury turned over his entire roster except for 1 player. Beat Purdue earlier in the year
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  #722  
Old 03-27-2018, 01:52 PM
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I would love to go after some programs that play football, but the A10 has shown very little interest in this.

I'd add WKU, UAB, ODU, Ohio, MTSU and Marshall in a heartbeat. I think it would be an easy decision for them as well, even if they had to go independent in football (which really isn't a big deal when there are several others like BYU, Army, NMSU, UMASS).
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:52 PM
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SLUFLYER I totally understand jokes and sarcasm the problem is there are little ways to indicate a joke or sarcasm as I use smileys etc. If you don't distinguish between the two then for all tense and purposes all your posts are either serious or scarcastic. Don't get it both ways, if we follow your logic then we all owe swampy Meadows a huge apology for all his scarcastic posts.

Huge difference if you want to be seen as funny sarcastic or serious, it only takes a second to add a smiley to eliminate all doubt.

So following you logic again how do you know if I was serious or scarcastic after all I can claim the latter like some on here do after the fact.
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  #724  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
It's even funnier how people miss it, ignore it or are just completely oblivious to it.....
Threads get buried if not getting posts and end up buried on a different page. Not everyone has as much time as you to visit older pages. If a topic is relavant then it should be pinned at the top for everyone to see. See how simple that is.
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  #725  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:56 PM
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We need a separate thread for posts related to needing to be in a power five conference as opposed to needing to be in any conference. Going to a non power five conference is just a step sideways and gets UD nowhere. So discussions such as forming a new mid-major conference or moving to another mid-major conference because it is perceived to be better at this time should have its own thread. And the need to be in a power five conference and the big east should have its own thread.

Somebody with a lot of time to waste could edit this thread and move the relevant posts to the separate threads. I am not volunteering even though by writing this post you are presuming I am the man with a lot of time to waste.
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:06 PM
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http://www.kob.com/sports/gonzaga-bu...tball/4841330/:

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Talk of Gonzaga's move to the Mountain West Conference is picking up steam. The university in Spokane, Washington has hired the same firm that brokered Wichita State's move to the American Athletic Conference.

The Bulldogs would like to have a decision made within the next two weeks. According to numerous reports, Gonzaga head coach Mark Few will make the final decision. If Gonzaga says yes to join the conference, the Mountain West presidents will them vote on the move.
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
http://www.kob.com/sports/gonzaga-bu...tball/4841330/:

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Talk of Gonzaga's move to the Mountain West Conference is picking up steam. The university in Spokane, Washington has hired the same firm that brokered Wichita State's move to the American Athletic Conference.

The Bulldogs would like to have a decision made within the next two weeks. According to numerous reports, Gonzaga head coach Mark Few will make the final decision. If Gonzaga says yes to join the conference, the Mountain West presidents will them vote on the move.
The WCC is trying to counter offer and frankly the A10 should look at some of these reforms.

The West Coast Conference is altering its basketball schedules in hopes of getting better treatment in seeding and at-large bids for the NCAA tournament.

The WCC Presidents' Council announced Monday that the 10-team league will go to a 16-game schedule next season instead of an 18-game double round-robin.

Also starting in 2019-20, all WCC schools will be required to play a multi-team event each season, play more home games than road games and play no more than two non-Division I opponents. The league also must approve all "guarantee" games, when an opponent pays a WCC school to play on the road.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...more-ncaa-bids
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:55 PM
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I'd like to see the 2nd tier of conferences like the MW, A10, and AAC go to less conference games and more games against each other. Since the big boys seem to be increasing the number of their own conference games we're really only going to get a shot at them in Maui, the Bahamas, or at the Tesla Dark Side of the Moon 2K30 Classic. The next best thing is to reward consistently top-performing programs in these conferences with chances to pick up some Tier 2 (or even the occasional Tier 1) wins. I wouldn't mind Wichita St at home in Year 1 and BYU on the road, followed by Gonzaga at home and a trip down to UC in Year 2.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:10 PM
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When it was announced that the B1G would go to 20 conference games, I recall (jokingly) saying the A10 should go to 14 conference games. Maybe there is some truth to that if the "coalition of the willing" conferences strike some sort of deal to play each other more. Would it make sense to play UC and SDSU instead of Duquesne and LaSalle twice? Absolutely!

I would game it so that the 4th place team in the A10 plays the top team in the MWC at home, 3rd plays 2nd, etc. so the top 2 or 3 teams in each conference get a chance to win a strong away game and strong home game.

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Old 03-28-2018, 10:16 PM
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The A10 is the only conference in this star system that would saddle a probable NCAA team with Fordham and Duquesne H/H in conference
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
I'd like to see the 2nd tier of conferences like the MW, A10, and AAC go to less conference games and more games against each other. Since the big boys seem to be increasing the number of their own conference games we're really only going to get a shot at them in Maui, the Bahamas, or at the Tesla Dark Side of the Moon 2K30 Classic. The next best thing is to reward consistently top-performing programs in these conferences with chances to pick up some Tier 2 (or even the occasional Tier 1) wins. I wouldn't mind Wichita St at home in Year 1 and BYU on the road, followed by Gonzaga at home and a trip down to UC in Year 2.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:28 AM
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What does second tier mid-major mean? They have a football stadium? (uncomfortable stare at reporter with power of pause)
-Archie Miller post game interview

same big east conference would’ve been “second tier” 3/4 years ago. We had 6 bids to their 3.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
We need a separate thread for posts related to needing to be in a power five conference as opposed to needing to be in any conference. Going to a non power five conference is just a step sideways and gets UD nowhere...
There is no way, in what’s left of my lifetime, UD is going to be admitted to a P5 conference. Those conferences are:
-Big Ten
-Big Twelve
-Atlantic Coast
-Southeast
-Pac 12

That’s for 1 reason, and 1 reason only: bowl-eligible football. The lowest average 2017 football attendance of these conferences (all schools within the conference) was over 45,000 per game. It takes us 2 years to get that many people to show-up for football, even with our program being one of the better ones in D-I Non-Scholarship. And the lowest of the schools within the lowest of the conferences still average at least 20,000/game most seasons. At the peak of football’s popularity at UD, we barely averaged half of that.

No, unless the entire landscape of college football changes radically, UD will never be admitted to any conference with a footprint similar to today’s P5. Conferences like the current Big East and American are the best we can hope for or expect.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:09 AM
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This thread and all UD conference affiliation threads need to be retired until we win back to back A10 Conference AND Tournament Championships.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
This thread and all UD conference affiliation threads need to be retired until we win back to back A10 Conference AND Tournament Championships.
Keep the regular season championship. That just means you get the #1 seed in the A10 tourney. I want to see an A10 Tourney Championship. I have gone to the last 6 A10 tourneys. Only once have I watched the Flyers play on Sunday and that was a loss.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:54 AM
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The A10 was pretty horrible this year. They've historically been a pretty close to the #7 conference behind the top 6, sometimes even beating out one of the Big 6 in their down years. After the Big East/AAC split, A10 was still typically #7 or #8. This year, the MVC and MW both beat A10 - which is fine. A10 is on their level. But the MAC also beat the A10 in RPI, and that shouldn't happen anymore.

The tiers should look like this:

Tier 1: Big 12, Big Ten, ACC, Big East, SEC, PAC 12
Tier 2: AAC, A10, MWC, MVC
Tier 3: MAC, WCC, Colonial, CUSA
Tier 4: Everything else

A10 shouldn't ever finish with an RPI lower than 10, and should be 7 or higher most of the time.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:14 PM
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Agreed 97% I would put the bIG eAST by itself in a tier #2. Then move everyone else down a tier,

If the East and Midwest would cull the high mid-major Conferences they'd get a super conference on par with the b.e. I know there are semantics and reasons why and reasons not...

Dayton
St. Louis
VCU
URI
Wich.St
UConn
UC
Houston

fill in any 2,4,6 or 8 more teams. They could really get cute with 3 divisions for Olympic sports and make it span the country, it could work with travel partnerships. Charter flights fixes travel related issues for Men's basketball. If you don't want to do charter flights then you aren't committed enough to join. That adds Gonzaga,St. Mary's,SDSU,New Mexico,Nevad,Colorado State etc. to the picture.


I know.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Agreed 97% I would put the bIG eAST by itself in a tier #2. Then move everyone else down a tier,

If the East and Midwest would cull the high mid-major Conferences they'd get a super conference on par with the b.e. I know there are semantics and reasons why and reasons not...

Dayton
St. Louis
VCU
URI
Wich.St
UConn
UC
Houston

fill in any 2,4,6 or 8 more teams. They could really get cute with 3 divisions for Olympic sports and make it span the country, it could work with travel partnerships. Charter flights fixes travel related issues for Men's basketball. If you don't want to do charter flights then you aren't committed enough to join. That adds Gonzaga,St. Mary's,SDSU,New Mexico,Nevad,Colorado State etc. to the picture.


I know.
That just looks like a list of UD and SLU plus a whole bunch of public commuter schools that are degree factories. As many have said time and time again...we need to figure out how to win the in A10 before anything happens.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Agreed 97% I would put the bIG eAST by itself in a tier #2. Then move everyone else down a tier,

If the East and Midwest would cull the high mid-major Conferences they'd get a super conference on par with the b.e. I know there are semantics and reasons why and reasons not...

Dayton
St. Louis
VCU
URI
Wich.St
UConn
UC
Houston

fill in any 2,4,6 or 8 more teams. They could really get cute with 3 divisions for Olympic sports and make it span the country, it could work with travel partnerships. Charter flights fixes travel related issues for Men's basketball. If you don't want to do charter flights then you aren't committed enough to join. That adds Gonzaga,St. Mary's,SDSU,New Mexico,Nevad,Colorado State etc. to the picture.


I know.
Actually, I think you hit on the problem but offer a solution. Other sports, (call them Olympic or whatever) the non men's bball sports make true conference realignment more difficult.
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Agreed 97% I would put the bIG eAST by itself in a tier #2. Then move everyone else down a tier,

If the East and Midwest would cull the high mid-major Conferences they'd get a super conference on par with the b.e. I know there are semantics and reasons why and reasons not...

Dayton
St. Louis
VCU
URI
Wich.St
UConn
UC
Houston

fill in any 2,4,6 or 8 more teams. They could really get cute with 3 divisions for Olympic sports and make it span the country, it could work with travel partnerships. Charter flights fixes travel related issues for Men's basketball. If you don't want to do charter flights then you aren't committed enough to join. That adds Gonzaga,St. Mary's,SDSU,New Mexico,Nevad,Colorado State etc. to the picture.


I know.
What would be your reason for having the BE as Tier 2 by itself? Is it because they don't play major football at those schools? If so, why does that matter? Or what is the purpose of the tiers?

The BE is every bit as legit as far as quality and success as every one of those P5 conferences and is typically better than most of the other P5, averaging somewhere between 2 and 4 on Conference RPI rank. They get a boatload of teams in the tournament, typically 5 plus and they get really high seeds. Heck, they had 2 number 1 seeds this year.
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:42 PM
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Because i wont fuel the fire that the bIG eAST plays on the level of the Power5. I don't let the facts get in the way of my opinion. Thats my reason. The MEAC is actually better then the bIG eAST.

I bet my opinion changes WHEN we get invited
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:50 AM
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I would rate the BE as the third best behind the Big12 and the ACC.
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:42 PM
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Gonzaga is not joining the Mountain West.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...mike-roth-says
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  #744  
Old 04-06-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Gonzaga is not joining the Mountain West.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...mike-roth-says
They got a pretty sweet deal to stay in the WCC
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:54 PM
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So let’s get back to some ridiculous rumors. A coworker of mine has a friend in one of the marketing/design/contractor/whatever departments that works alongside the athletic department at times and says that UD is in the mid/late talks of joining the AAC. What the time table is or how the football thing would work out is anybody’s guess. Again this is the ultimate ‘I heard from a friend of a friend of friend” situation but somewhat interesting and exciting nonetheless. Time to start unreasonably hating our potential new Cincinnati rival UC.

Also I firmly believe that there is a 0.00468% chance of this actually happening. While it would be exciting, the fact that we will have to deal with Hurley’s antics again may be a deal breaker for me.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
So let’s get back to some ridiculous rumors. A coworker of mine has a friend in one of the marketing/design/contractor/whatever departments that works alongside the athletic department at times and says that UD is in the mid/late talks of joining the AAC. What the time table is or how the football thing would work out is anybody’s guess. Again this is the ultimate ‘I heard from a friend of a friend of friend” situation but somewhat interesting and exciting nonetheless. Time to start unreasonably hating our potential new Cincinnati rival UC.

Also I firmly believe that there is a 0.00468% chance of this actually happening. While it would be exciting, the fact that we will have to deal with Hurley’s antics again may be a deal breaker for me.
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You can count me in the group that would love to get out of the A10. It's a good league and it has been a great fit. But an opportunity to get into the BE or AAC would help our recruiting and improve our schedule quality.

Let's assume it's true (cause if it's not then there is nothing to talk about). The AAC would be a blast. The UC rivalry would be great. Wichita St, Temple, UConn would be fun games. And there are other good programs in there (Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, SMU, etc).

My main question would be...who else? Adding UD gives them 13. That's not a great number for a conference. Only 2 other conferences have 13 (MEAC, Southland).

Give me VCU and I'll take that all day over the current A10. Adding VCU gets around the football issue, because it brings bball to 14 and since neither of the additions have football - it can move on unchanged.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:50 PM
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:01 PM
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Numerous sources claimed when WSU joined that VCU and Dayton were in talks at the time, so my hunch is VCU would still be the other team again. (quick google search you can find the old articles) Even if UC and Uconn bolt for a better football opportunity, I still think this is a big step up from the A-10 if it were to happen.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:21 PM
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There is way too much thinking about and speculating about getting into or forming conferences which have a .00468 chance of happening and which if did happen would be a best sideways moves.

The speculators and wishful thinkers on this board should given the remoteness of the odds should be thinking bigger.

The Atlantic Coast Conference would seem to be the ideal conference for UD to be in and the ACC would be happy to admit UD, it would gain a presence in Ohio. It could realign its divisions to state division and metro division. UD could be in the metro division with Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Pitt, Louisville Notre Dame and Clemson. Not that Clemson is a Metro school but since Purnell coached at both Dayton and Clemson they would no doubt be eager to join the division.

What would be needed to make it happen:
1. UD would have to go up to Division One Football
a. It would need to replace Welcome Stadium with a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium but this could be funded by the Ohio taxpayers as that is how stadiums get built these days.

b. Scheduling
UD would probably need to be an independent in football for a few years but because football games are scheduled years in advance this might not be bad.
UD could schedule the toughest teams in all five conferences and they would agree as they would think they are scheduling a patsy not knowing about the juggernaut they would be facing when the actual game time arrived.
UD would need to have a schedule of all away games as these P5 Schools would never deem to come to Dayton. But this could work to UD's recruiting benefit as the potential recruit would know he is making history. It would also give the City time to build the stadium and time to build a hunger in the region to see the team play in person rather than on TV.
After winning a national title two or three years in a row, the ACC would come begging.

b. They would need to get a quality team. It might take some money to get Nick Saban but it could be worth it.

Given the remoteness of the possibilities discussed in this thread, one should think big rather than small like UD playing Wichita State home and away. .000468 is too small a possibility not to think big if it happens. Its like wondering what you would do if you won the powerball with a million dollar jackpot versus what you would do if you won the Powerball with a 300 million dollar jackpot. The odds are remote but about the same so why not think big.

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Old 05-16-2018, 05:21 PM
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I am all about joining the AAC. While it would be great to be in the big east, one thing that I’ve noticed about Dayton basketball is, when we are on ESPN, people on my Facebook feed and or my coworkers notice. When we are on CBS Sports net, NBC sports, whatever, people don’t. The AAC has most of its games on ESPN networks. The big east is on FS1. I know we always talk about cord cutting and how ESPN loses viewers, etc. Here’s the thing, that affects all sports networks. ESPN is still far and away the worldwide leader. It will be for the next 5 to 10 years which is what we are talking about here. ESPN nets gives us more exposure.
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  #751  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:31 PM
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Count me in the group that wants in the AAC, there are too many moochers in the A10. This year, they had 9 teams in the top 123 of the rpi. Tulane was 175, and they only had 2 real laggards: ECU at 274 and USF at 278.

And BG and Joe Dooley should get USF and ECU back to respectability.

But, on second thought, probably half of that league is a flight risk. And that is very frightening: Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and maybe even Tulsa and USF all have bigger football aspirations. I would say only Wichita, Temple, Tulane, and ECU are stable.

I'm on the fence.

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Old 05-16-2018, 05:54 PM
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Huh?

Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
There is way too much thinking about and speculating about getting into or forming conferences which have a .00468 chance of happening and which if did happen would be a best sideways moves.

The speculators and wishful thinkers on this board should given the remoteness of the odds should be thinking bigger.

The Atlantic Coast Conference would seem to be the ideal conference for UD to be in and the ACC would be happy to admit UD. It could realign its divisions to state division and metro division. UD could be in the metro division with Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Pitt, Louisville Notre Dame and Clemson. Not that Clemson is a Metro school but since Purnell coached at both Dayton and Clemson they would no doubt be eager to join the division.

What would be needed to make it happen:
1. UD would have to go up to Division One Football
a. It would need to replace Welcome Stadium with a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium but this could be funded by the Ohio taxpayers as that is how stadiums get built these days.

b. They would need to get a quality team. It might take some money to get Nick Saban but it could be worth it.
With all due respect old fan....I think you must be hallucinating. (or perhaps joking)
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  #753  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
With all due respect old fan....I think you must be hallucinating. (or perhaps joking)
I assume his post is a lame attempt at humor, but if he is serious about going to the AAC being a "sideways move," he is sorely mistaken. Going into the AAC with VCU would definitely be a step up. Even if UC and UConn eventually left, it would still be a step up.
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  #754  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:31 PM
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Heard rumors of talks with AAC but with no concrete proof I didn't post. Now that's it been grout I will second the OP who brought it up. Ud and VCU to AAC would make to much sense from a bball standpoint though
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
There is way too much thinking about and speculating about getting into or forming conferences which have a .00468 chance of happening and which if did happen would be a best sideways moves.

The speculators and wishful thinkers on this board should given the remoteness of the odds should be thinking bigger.

The Atlantic Coast Conference would seem to be the ideal conference for UD to be in and the ACC would be happy to admit UD, it would gain a presence in Ohio. It could realign its divisions to state division and metro division. UD could be in the metro division with Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Pitt, Louisville Notre Dame and Clemson. Not that Clemson is a Metro school but since Purnell coached at both Dayton and Clemson they would no doubt be eager to join the division.

What would be needed to make it happen:
1. UD would have to go up to Division One Football
a. It would need to replace Welcome Stadium with a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium but this could be funded by the Ohio taxpayers as that is how stadiums get built these days.

b. Scheduling
UD would probably need to be an independent in football for a few years but because football games are scheduled years in advance this might not be bad.
UD could schedule the toughest teams in all five conferences and they would agree as they would think they are scheduling a patsy not knowing about the juggernaut they would be facing when the actual game time arrived.
UD would need to have a schedule of all away games as these P5 Schools would never deem to come to Dayton. But this could work to UD's recruiting benefit as the potential recruit would know he is making history. It would also give the City time to build the stadium and time to build a hunger in the region to see the team play in person rather than on TV.
After winning a national title two or three years in a row, the ACC would come begging.

b. They would need to get a quality team. It might take some money to get Nick Saban but it could be worth it.

Given the remoteness of the possibilities discussed in this thread, one should think big rather than small like UD playing Wichita State home and away. .000468 is too small a possibility not to think big if it happens. Its like wondering what you would do if you won the powerball with a million dollar jackpot versus what you would do if you won the Powerball with a 300 million dollar jackpot. The odds are remote but about the same so why not think big.
I did think BIG and dreamt Jon Gruden would be our coach. May have to settle for Joey though.
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  #756  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:55 PM
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I used to be on the fence about the AAC, but am now firmly behind that move.

The worst case scenario for UD is not joining the AAC and having UC & UCONN (and even a couple others) leave for greener football pastures.

The worst case scenario is we say no to the AAC, then they proceed to take VCU & SLU and we're stuck in an even further depleted A-10.

I think the much more likely scenario in 10 years is that the A-10 becomes more like the Colonial than a bunch of AAC schools being in power football conferences.
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  #757  
Old 05-17-2018, 05:37 AM
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SLU is more interested in returning to Missouri Valley Conference if they don't get invite to NBE. VCU on the other hand seems willing to go where UD goes.

Cincy likes the idea od UD being a travel partner and don't see TV markets a problem like X does. Could see both UD and UC joining forces and both leaving X behind.
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  #758  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:53 AM
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Anyone, outside of the city of an A10 team, can be given a list of A10 schools and AAC schools and asked if they know these schools. The obvious result would be people know the AAC schools. So now apply that to recruits who are deciding whether to play against George Mason or Houston, LaSalle or SMU, Fordham or UC.

Now pretend that Dayton is in neither conference. In the next few years they are playing an out of conference schedule of the A10 teams and the AAC teams. Which games would get better TV coverage? Better attendance? Larger press coverage? Would draw your interest as a UD fan?
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:38 AM
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The risk

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Anyone, outside of the city of an A10 team, can be given a list of A10 schools and AAC schools and asked if they know these schools. The obvious result would be people know the AAC schools. So now apply that to recruits who are deciding whether to play against George Mason or Houston, LaSalle or SMU, Fordham or UC.

Now pretend that Dayton is in neither conference. In the next few years they are playing an out of conference schedule of the A10 teams and the AAC teams. Which games would get better TV coverage? Better attendance? Larger press coverage? Would draw your interest as a UD fan?
Football drives the bus in all the big- time conferences, including the AAC. Currently the conferences has 13 members....12 playing big-time BB and 12 FBS FB. I haven't heard any talk about a desire to add schools.

There is plenty of talk (and action) of elevating the AAC level of play to that of the Power 5 conferences. The AAC is pretty close in FB and added WSU to beef up BB. Continued strengthening is the primary focus...not expansion, as I understand it.

Also, with nine of the AAC 13 members being large public universities UD is not a good institutional fit.

I don't understand why UD and the other A10 schools that are demonstrating that excellence in men's BB is school priority do not organize a "mini-revolt" so to speak, i.e., band together to force change. A conference doesn't need 14 members. Schools that are content to play in antiquated, poorly maintained Div III-level facilities are sending the message loud-and-clear that top-tier BB is not a priority for them.....not as regards recruiting, coaching, post-season play, etc.

Excellence requires investment. If I see that a school refuses to invest at a level required for success the message is clear. Perhaps I just don't understand the politics, dynamics, etc., of conference operation. Perhaps the weak sisters in the A10 do not hurt Dayton is any significant way. I would love to hear Neil's view re this issue. If there are changes in A10 operation or composition that would benefit Dayton why aren't we aggressively pursuing them? Are we simply trapped in the conference with no viable alternative and little ability to effect change and improvement?
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Football drives the bus in all the big- time conferences, including the AAC. Currently the conferences has 13 members....12 playing big-time BB and 12 FBS FB. I haven't heard any talk about a desire to add schools.

There is plenty of talk (and action) of elevating the AAC level of play to that of the Power 5 conferences. The AAC is pretty close in FB and added WSU to beef up BB. Continued strengthening is the primary focus...not expansion, as I understand it.

Also, with nine of the AAC 13 members being large public universities UD is not a good institutional fit.

I don't understand why UD and the other A10 schools that are demonstrating that excellence in men's BB is school priority do not organize a "mini-revolt" so to speak, i.e., band together to force change. A conference doesn't need 14 members. Schools that are content to play in antiquated, poorly maintained Div III-level facilities are sending the message loud-and-clear that top-tier BB is not a priority for them.....not as regards recruiting, coaching, post-season play, etc.

Excellence requires investment. If I see that a school refuses to invest at a level required for success the message is clear. Perhaps I just don't understand the politics, dynamics, etc., of conference operation. Perhaps the weak sisters in the A10 do not hurt Dayton is any significant way. I would love to hear Neil's view re this issue. If there are changes in A10 operation or composition that would benefit Dayton why aren't we aggressively pursuing them? Are we simply trapped in the conference with no viable alternative and little ability to effect change and improvement?
Other than VCU, SLU, and UD...who would you consider they also get to revolt? SBU? RI? maybe 5 schools total.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:19 PM
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Get ur point.....if however:

Richmond, Umass, St Joes, Davidson, GW
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:51 PM
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I remember when this first came up when Wichita State was moving into the AAC, I couldn't understand why folks first reaction was no at the time. It just seemed like a logical step in the right direction and could bring in more revenue and great games.

The other opportunity to me was the possibility of UD going to a scholarship football program. We would be a bottom feeder team in the conference, but it would be an opportunity for a much bigger branding horizon... and UD has the real estate to develop a modest stadium.

Oh the dreams! We better be a contender this year or why do we even have this thread.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:54 PM
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More than five...

Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Other than VCU, SLU, and UD...who would you consider they also get to revolt? SBU? RI? maybe 5 schools total.
Originally Posted by Sitdowndigger View Post
Get ur point.....if however:

Richmond, Umass, St Joes, Davidson, GW
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I don't know if "revolt" is the right word. But you get the point. In addition to the five mentioned by TX...definitely St. Joes and URI. Probably UMass and Davidson.

Facility investment is a solid indication of seriousness. Nothing can force 10,000 fans to show up for games. If a school's market will support only 5000 that's fine. But if the facility for 5000 is modern and up to date as regards press accommodations, TV, along with training and practice facilities that investment reflects commitment.

I have not seen St. Joes new facilities. But I have no doubt that BB is serious business at St. Joes...and in recent years the school has invested $20 million, or so, to modernize all aspects of its BB facilities. URI and UMass are top notch. UMass is in a special situation because of its commitment to FBS FB.

Good teams require the ability to recruit good HS players and good coaching staffs. And HS players and coaches can immediately assess a school's commitment to playing at the highest level when they see the facilities....they know what competing programs have.

I don't understand the A10's tolerance for poor facilities..since that is the primary indication of the priority a school places on BB excellence. As I've said before, perhaps those that really understand the dynamics know that the weak sisters in The A10 really aren't hurting programs like UD's. I just don't know. But for sure, any HS players and/or visiting coaches have no doubt about UD's commitment after seeing the Arena and related facilities.

Chris, have you ever discussed this sort of thing with Neil?
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:47 PM
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I'd be pretty shocked if the other team was anyone but VCU. They were already a target with UD before and as others have mentioned SLU seems more likely destined to join the BE if they ever go to 11 or the MVC.

14 is a great number for basketball. It will allow the American to go to a 20 game conference schedule. You'd play 7 teams twice for 14 games and the other 6 teams once. Likely this would be done with divisions of 7 and one cross-division "rival." In theory, you could even make these divisions mini-conferences for non-football/basketball sports to cut down on travel expenses.

East: UConn, UCF, USF, ECU, Temple, VCU, Dayton

West: Cinci, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Wichita St.

So for example in basketball you could have UD/UC be the cross-division rivalry in hoops.

*Side note: I'm a huge college baseball fan (you have to be if you live where I live) and the American is a very good baseball conference. They have at least 6 teams with top-50 RPIs at the moment.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:06 PM
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You cannot be serious!

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer View Post
I remember when this first came up when Wichita State was moving into the AAC, I couldn't understand why folks first reaction was no at the time. It just seemed like a logical step in the right direction and could bring in more revenue and great games.

The other opportunity to me was the possibility of UD going to a scholarship football program. We would be a bottom feeder team in the conference, but it would be an opportunity for a much bigger branding horizon... and UD has the real estate to develop a modest stadium.

Oh the dreams! We better be a contender this year or why do we even have this thread.
There is a reason why only two (?) Catholic schools play FBS football and only a few more play scholarship FCS FB. Most FBS schools,....even those in the Power 5,...lose money on football. Of the top 50 U.S. News national research universities....the big dogs,...only about half play FB at any level.

The cost is astronomical. After spending $100 million for a stadium seating 40,000....and $45 million for a FB training/practice facility....UConn was able to compete at the FBS level for a few years. Then the bottom fell out and the FB program is running a $20 million annual deficit....a major problem even for a large school. That FB deficit is close to UD's total athletics budget.

If a school like UD is going to play FB...and there aren't that many that do,....our non-schollie, Ivy league-sort of, model is perfect. And over the years we've been very good at it. The only short coming I see is our ~2500 attendance. Something in the 4000-5000 range would be perfect.

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Old 05-17-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The only short coming I see is our ~2500 attendance. Something in the 4000-5000 range would be perfect.

Go Flyers!
Watch some of those MAC games on a Tuesday. They would be happy if 2500 showed up. I am sure the paid is quite higher but the actually attendance is pitiful for what is spent.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:31 PM
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Schools get trapped

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Watch some of those MAC games on a Tuesday. They would be happy if 2500 showed up. I am sure the paid is quite higher but the actually attendance is pitiful for what is spent.
I love good college FB...but it makes very little sense financially.

Many of the largest, most prominent schools in the country do not play FB at any level or play at Div III or non-scholarship Div I. FBS and FCS schollie FB is a money pit for all but a handful of schools and a real money maker for just a few. And it's worsening.

When the U. of Chicago dropped out of the Big Ten the school's president is reported to have said something along the lines... "Football is about as relevant to education as bull fighting is to agriculture". Probably right.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:17 PM
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Not convinced UD wants to fund their basketball program in a league with football money. Two reasons:

1. They have to compete with football money
2. They have to compete knowing nobody playing football in the AAC even wants to be there, which means by default all of their sports dont want to be there.

Tough to be committed to a new league when half the league already card-carrying league members would rather be elsewhere. If you play football and are in the AAC, you are in the AAC only because nobody of significance wanted you. It's a humbling reality.

UConn would have been better to join the Big East and play independent football, or just drop football entirely and chalk it up to a bad set of decisions. At least then the money pit stops getting deeper. When UConn made the Fiesta Bowl, they sold 2,800 tickets and had to eat the other 15,000 to a tune of $3M. All the other UConn sports which have been far more successful and got sidelined to let football steer the bus. No program mens or womens have won more Nattys in the last 25yrs.

Right now the AAC looks intriguing, but what about 5-10-15yrs from now. Just a couple years ago the AAC didnt have jack diddly on the A10. Things ebb and flow. Leagues go up and down. In February the A10 was Juan Bid. When the smoke cleared we punched 3 teams which is precisely the same as the AAC. Yep the AAC's cellar was better than the A10 cellar and that's where they parlayed better math, but how many people really care about the cellar. Its how many teams you send to the Dance -- whether hook or by crook.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:32 PM
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Their top was a lot better, too.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:57 PM
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All good points...

Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Not convinced UD wants to fund their basketball program in a league with football money. Two reasons:

1. They have to compete with football money
2. They have to compete knowing nobody playing football in the AAC even wants to be there, which means by default all of their sports dont want to be there.

Tough to be committed to a new league when half the league already card-carrying league members would rather be elsewhere. If you play football and are in the AAC, you are in the AAC only because nobody of significance wanted you. It's a humbling reality.

UConn would have been better to join the Big East and play independent football, or just drop football entirely and chalk it up to a bad set of decisions. At least then the money pit stops getting deeper. When UConn made the Fiesta Bowl, they sold 2,800 tickets and had to eat the other 15,000 to a tune of $3M. All the other UConn sports which have been far more successful and got sidelined to let football steer the bus. No program mens or womens have won more Nattys in the last 25yrs.

Right now the AAC looks intriguing, but what about 5-10-15yrs from now. Just a couple years ago the AAC didnt have jack diddly on the A10. Things ebb and flow. Leagues go up and down. In February the A10 was Juan Bid. When the smoke cleared we punched 3 teams which is precisely the same as the AAC. Yep the AAC's cellar was better than the A10 cellar and that's where they parlayed better math, but how many people really care about the cellar. Its how many teams you send to the Dance -- whether hook or by crook.
The A10 might learn a few things from the AAC. Why is it that most/many AAC schools would rather be elsewhere? It's not because they don't like the company they keep. The schools don't want to be just any "elsewhere". They want to be a Power 5 conference. Why? Because schools in Power5s pull in $20-$30 million a year from TV revenue. The AAC's take on that is, "We're Power 6". The AAC even has a Power 6 logo.

The reason the Power 5s have those TV contracts is because the TV people feel the level of play is high and that's what people pay to watch on TV. The AAc's strategy is, "We've got to prove we are just as good as Power 5 schools." And they are in the process of doing just that. When FB season ended there were three AAC schools in the Top 25. Not bad. The AAC wants more than three...and they want the same performance in BB. That's why they added WSU. If the improvement continues the AAC will earn a Power 5-like TV deal. I'm not so sure AAC schools will be eager to leave if that happens.

Meanwhile, the A10 could also adopt a "get better" strategy as the best course of action. Why not?

The AAC schools may envy the Power 5s now. But the schools are realistic. There aren't a half dozen or so potential Power 5 slots likely to open up. The realists in the AAC know their efforts are best spent focusing on making the conference they are in as good as it can be.

I don't sense that the A10 has a similar strategy. The conference seems content with the status quo....just opinion.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:05 PM
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I don't know Neil's plans for UD, but I am sure he not leading Dayton to spend $72 million dollars to keep status quo.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:01 AM
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Dayton

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I don't know Neil's plans for UD, but I am sure he not leading Dayton to spend $72 million dollars to keep status quo.
Dayton is investing in Dayton. But I am unaware of any movement within the A10 to improve the conference. I seriously doubt that UD's investment in the Arena has anything to do with positioning itself for a "conference step-up".
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
When UConn made the Fiesta Bowl, they sold 2,800 tickets and had to eat the other 15,000 to a tune of $3M.
They were literally giving tix away at my base (Luke AFB). Still couldn’t find any takers.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:02 PM
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Lets assume UD and another A10 team left for the AAC. Lets say its VCU.

As the AAC is currently constructed I think its a no brainer for UD to go to if invited. The top of the AAC is better and the bottom has way more upside than the bottom of the A10. BG may not get USF to the tourney much, but theres no way he doesn't recruit enough athletes to make them competitive.

The AAC gives us a massively upgraded conference schedule at a time when non-con scheduling is getting tougher. UConn, UC, Memphis, SMU, Wichita St, Temple...all teams we'd love to schedule H/H with in the non-con and cant.

There would be some risk involved in a jump to the AAC. The biggest and probably most immediate would be UCONN and UC leaving. In that scenario the AAC + VCU would still be still be better than the A10 minus VCU - top roughly equivalent and still a better bottom.

There is risk involved in staying in the A10 too. What if VCU and SLU jump to the AAC? We'd be left with an equivalent of the Colonial. Not terrible, also not where we want to be.

Competing with football money...we're doing that already every time we recruit a guy with P5 offers.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:39 PM
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Risk

Originally Posted by Wallage View Post
Lets assume UD and another A10 team left for the AAC. Lets say its VCU.

As the AAC is currently constructed I think its a no brainer for UD to go to if invited. The top of the AAC is better and the bottom has way more upside than the bottom of the A10. BG may not get USF to the tourney much, but theres no way he doesn't recruit enough athletes to make them competitive.

The AAC gives us a massively upgraded conference schedule at a time when non-con scheduling is getting tougher. UConn, UC, Memphis, SMU, Wichita St, Temple...all teams we'd love to schedule H/H with in the non-con and cant.

There would be some risk involved in a jump to the AAC. The biggest and probably most immediate would be UCONN and UC leaving. In that scenario the AAC + VCU would still be still be better than the A10 minus VCU - top roughly equivalent and still a better bottom.

There is risk involved in staying in the A10 too. What if VCU and SLU jump to the AAC? We'd be left with an equivalent of the Colonial. Not terrible, also not where we want to be.

Competing with football money...we're doing that already every time we recruit a guy with P5 offers.
Risk and compatibility: Absent FB the non-FB schools are not a good fit in a hybrid conference. The old Big East taught us that. Why not follow the "AAC model" and work hard to improve the A10? I don't see any effort, movement...even talk,...about improving the A10. The AAC commissioner is talking all the time about steps being taken by member schools to improve the conference and become the "Power 6" conference.

The A10 could have a goal...talk and walk...of becoming the undisputed "best non-FB BB conference". That kind of talk/action might even attract one or two schools who want the same thing. And since it means investment, it might persuade one or two current members to switch. Schools have different objectives. We know exactly what UD's objectives are...some A10 schools have similar objectives and some clearly do not. The latter can find a new home and a few schools from other conferences may like what they see in the "new A10".

This isn't dreaming or wishing for a miracle. It's recognition that schools are different and have different priorities. All A10 schools will never have UD's goals and priorities. But most should at least have compatible objectives. Currently that is not the case.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:40 PM
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I spoke to one of the Associate ADs at UD about the AAC - he seemed very luke warm due to the risk. He stated that UD reviewed all of the applications that were submitted for ACC and Big 12 expansion consideration because they were public documents. Most of the football schools in the AAC want to be in a power 5 conference. I believe that UD is afraid to move because you never know how the next conference realignment will shake out. What if the Big 12 wants to add 4 - that kind of thing. Houston, Cincinnati, SMU, UConn (who may leave for the NBE as well), Memphis. That would/could gut the conference. Probably too risky at this point.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
I spoke to one of the Associate ADs at UD about the AAC - he seemed very luke warm due to the risk. He stated that UD reviewed all of the applications that were submitted for ACC and Big 12 expansion consideration because they were public documents. Most of the football schools in the AAC want to be in a power 5 conference. I believe that UD is afraid to move because you never know how the next conference realignment will shake out. What if the Big 12 wants to add 4 - that kind of thing. Houston, Cincinnati, SMU, UConn (who may leave for the NBE as well), Memphis. That would/could gut the conference. Probably too risky at this point.
So if UD leaves with VCU and joins Wichita State and then the AAC falls apart, what's the worse thing that could happen? UD goes back to the A10 (A10 desire for $ would ensure they swallow their pride and invite VCU and UD back) or joins some type of hybrid A10/Mizz Valley.

But what happens if UD doesn't go to the AAC and the AAC takes VCU and SLU. Now UD is left with a depleted A10 until the next round of realignment (which may not happen for a long time).

I don't see the downside with going to the AAC. If the AAC stays together, it's a much better conference than the A10. If it falls apart, you're back in the A10 or maybe with Wichita State in something better than the A10.

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Old 05-18-2018, 02:21 PM
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I don't mind that we are in the A10, but completely agree with UACFlyer above. I see no push from the A10 to improve. They don't appear to be holding the bottom rung schools accountable and don't appear to be actively recruiting good schools to join. The only thing from UD's perspective that I can see is that despite being one of the top tier schools in the conference, we have little pull. Where are we going to go? Yes, assuming AAC is an option, but to other's point, the move is risky if there's another big FB realignment.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shapanud View Post
So if UD leaves with VCU and joins Wichita State and then the AAC falls apart, what's the worse thing that could happen? UD goes back to the A10 (A10 desire for $ would ensure they swallow their pride and invite VCU and UD back) or joins some type of hybrid A10/Mizz Valley.

But what happens if UD doesn't go to the AAC and the AAC takes VCU and SLU. Now UD is left with a depleted A10 until the next round of realignment (which may not happen for a long time).

I don't see the downside with going to the AAC. If the AAC stays together, it's a much better conference than the A10. If it falls apart, your back in the A10 or maybe with Wichita State in something better than the A10.
Bingo! With a nucleus of Wichita State, VCU, and Dayton, there would be no problem in adding enough top level mid-majors (some from the A-10) to form a new conference or, at worst, go back to the A-10. And some of the top AAC teams would still be available. They're not all going to P5 conferences.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Bingo! With a nucleus of Wichita State, VCU, and Dayton, there would be no problem in adding enough top level mid-majors (some from the A-10) to form a new conference or, at worst, go back to the A-10. And some of the top AAC teams would still be available. They're not all going to P5 conferences.
Bingo on your Bingo!

When it is all said and done, could be the best thing that ever happened to UD if your scenario played out. Get away from the dead weight of the A-10 and be in a conference of the best remaining basketball schools in the country.

And we all live happily ever after
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:34 PM
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Could be best of two worlds (assuming no NBE) as we get better competition in conference and can still schedule top A10 schools, SLU, RI, etc for non conference.

Down the road there will be major realignment of football especially if the medical reports keep promoting head injuries as a major concern.

Nothing is for ever...cept taxes.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:44 PM
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Moving to the AAC is a risk. No doubt.

Back in the day, moving away from being an independent and joining a conference with other Catholic schools from the east that didn't include midwest teams we were used to playing was also a big risk. One we didn't take.

How did "playing it safe" then work out?

Thing is, staying in the A10 is also pretty risky, even if staying status quo feels safer.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
Moving to the AAC is a risk. No doubt.

Back in the day, moving away from being an independent and joining a conference with other Catholic schools from the east that didn't include midwest teams we were used to playing was also a big risk. One we didn't take.

How did "playing it safe" then work out?

Thing is, staying in the A10 is also pretty risky, even if staying status quo feels safer.
Couple of great comments and rationale for joining the AAC. Stying pat in life I have found is rarely good. Others are scheming changes at the same time.

Find a change you like . And GO FOR IT!
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:41 PM
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AAC talk

I hear a lot about the AAC, it's strategy, objectives, directions, etc. One thing I don't hear the AAC talking about is expansion.

Just about 100% of the discussion is about improvement.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
Moving to the AAC is a risk. No doubt.

Back in the day, moving away from being an independent and joining a conference with other Catholic schools from the east that didn't include midwest teams we were used to playing was also a big risk. One we didn't take.

How did "playing it safe" then work out?

Thing is, staying in the A10 is also pretty risky, even if staying status quo feels safer.
True. Not joining a conference and not getting into the Eddie Einhorn TV package were two huge mistakes. We stayed with the status quo then and it hurt us. Are we going to stay with the status quo again? As UAC says, it appears the A-10 is doing nothing to force improvement of the conference.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
I spoke to one of the Associate ADs at UD about the AAC - he seemed very luke warm due to the risk. He stated that UD reviewed all of the applications that were submitted for ACC and Big 12 expansion consideration because they were public documents. Most of the football schools in the AAC want to be in a power 5 conference. I believe that UD is afraid to move because you never know how the next conference realignment will shake out. What if the Big 12 wants to add 4 - that kind of thing. Houston, Cincinnati, SMU, UConn (who may leave for the NBE as well), Memphis. That would/could gut the conference. Probably too risky at this point.
The associate AD will take direction from his boss and big donors. The A10 is a quagmire and I can't believe UD will stay unless there is significant change and that's not happening.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oRed View Post
The associate AD will take direction from his boss and big donors. The A10 is a quagmire and I can't believe UD will stay unless there is significant change and that's not happening.
Giggidy, Giggidy, Giggidy alright! I’m not opposed to the AAC at all and I believe it would be a good move. The A10 is a strange conference but it would be potentially great to have matches with UC, Wichita St, VCU, UCONN, Memphis, Houston and certainly Temple. I’m more into those games than anyone from the A10 other than VCU.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I hear a lot about the AAC, it's strategy, objectives, directions, etc. One thing I don't hear the AAC talking about is expansion.

Just about 100% of the discussion is about improvement.
There was discussion last spring about the AAC taking Dayton and VCU & going to 14 teams. I couldn't tell you how real that was but I have to think for CBS Sports and other national outlets to pick it up and run with it that it was more than message board chatter.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Not convinced UD wants to fund their basketball program in a league with football money. Two reasons:

1. They have to compete with football money
2. They have to compete knowing nobody playing football in the AAC even wants to be there, which means by default all of their sports dont want to be there.

Tough to be committed to a new league when half the league already card-carrying league members would rather be elsewhere. If you play football and are in the AAC, you are in the AAC only because nobody of significance wanted you. It's a humbling reality.

UConn would have been better to join the Big East and play independent football, or just drop football entirely and chalk it up to a bad set of decisions. At least then the money pit stops getting deeper. When UConn made the Fiesta Bowl, they sold 2,800 tickets and had to eat the other 15,000 to a tune of $3M. All the other UConn sports which have been far more successful and got sidelined to let football steer the bus. No program mens or womens have won more Nattys in the last 25yrs.

Right now the AAC looks intriguing, but what about 5-10-15yrs from now. Just a couple years ago the AAC didnt have jack diddly on the A10. Things ebb and flow. Leagues go up and down. In February the A10 was Juan Bid. When the smoke cleared we punched 3 teams which is precisely the same as the AAC. Yep the AAC's cellar was better than the A10 cellar and that's where they parlayed better math, but how many people really care about the cellar. Its how many teams you send to the Dance -- whether hook or by crook.
How are we competing against football money if in an actual BCS/power conference the Big East UConn struggled to make money on the Fiesta Bowl and now in the AAC the money from the TV deal that football brings in is considerably less?

By all accounts money wise Dayton's basketball budget would be competitive in the AAC and the schools with bigger budgets like UConn/Memphis aren't getting that money from the football team or the meager TV revenue they're pulling in

We don't know how the AAC will look 10 years down the line. We also don't know how the situation or place in college hoops for the A10 will look like down the line either.

Scheduling is getting harder for schools outside the Power 5/Big East, fewer at large bids are going to the conferences outside the power ones, fewer top 100 recruits are going to conferences outside the top 7. The trend is not looking good for leagues like the A10, Mountain West, Missouri Valley

The A10 got 3 bids last year in a down year but past performance is no guarantee of future results.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:25 PM
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I feel a little better about the A10 since the season ended.

Duquesne seems like they're making some steps in the right direction under Dambrot. With the recruits and transfers they've got coming in I think there's a real possibility of them moving out of realm of perpetually being a sub 200 RPI team. The A10 has tethered them to Dayton as a H/H opponent so it's big that the Dukes won't be potentially the worst RPI on the schedule

Ashley Howard is a home run hire for La Salle. No idea if he'll succeed there but on paper he's probably the best they could hope to do. Howard would have some options going forward at Villanova so that makes me somewhat optimistic he wouldn't have taken job without some assurances in terms of facilities/basketball commitment.

Rhode Island's AD wants to make the commitment to the basketball program to keep them at the top of the A10. Increased charter flights & assistant coach salaries and a new a basketball practice facility.

Richmond is building a $15 million dollar basketball practice facility.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:33 PM
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Commitment

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I feel a little better about the A10 since the season ended.

Duquesne seems like they're making some steps in the right direction under Dambrot. With the recruits and transfers they've got coming in I think there's a real possibility of them moving out of realm of perpetually being a sub 200 RPI team. The A10 has tethered them to Dayton as a H/H opponent so it's big that the Dukes won't be potentially the worst RPI on the schedule

Ashley Howard is a home run hire for La Salle. No idea if he'll succeed there but on paper he's probably the best they could hope to do. Howard would have some options going forward at Villanova so that makes me somewhat optimistic he wouldn't have taken job without some assurances in terms of facilities/basketball commitment.

Rhode Island's AD wants to make the commitment to the basketball program to keep them at the top of the A10. Increased charter flights & assistant coach salaries and a new a basketball practice facility.

Richmond is building a $15 million dollar basketball practice facility.
Those are solid indications of commitment.

Which A10 schools with sub-standard facilities are not making similar commitments? In my opinion, UD has a responsibility to not tolerate that...anything that diminishes the A10 conference diminishes the value of UD's investment.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:57 PM
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The issue with the A10 is that there isn't a unified vision to levels of basketball commitment with the schools in the league. Fordham can't be made to invest in basketball. For the talk of the AAC being a mishmash schools the A10 is certainly one too. The vision and commitment for Dayton & VCU is completely different than Fordham and La Salle. There's a bunch of dissimilar institutions that unite around the idea of a basketball first conference

Also, we must never forget that for the H/H opponents in conference play the league office is intentionally sabotaging the Flyers. Dayton played during Scoochie's junior year Fordham home and home while playing VCU once. Unquestionably Dayton had a tourny caliber team and was forced to play the worst team in the conference twice. Every year Dayton is forced to play two conference games against perennial basement dweller Duquesne.

One game in this league can be the difference between the First Four and the NIT or a seed line in the tourney.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:57 PM
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Dambrot may have the Dukes going right way., but if he has 3 good seasons, he be gone.
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:51 AM
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Here's my concern with the A10. I think the league can basically do everything right for the next 5 years and be in a worse position in terms of seeding and at large bids. It's great that the league has been consistently getting multi bids but there's no guarantee that'll be the case going forward.

ACC/Big 10 teams with a 20 game league schedule is going to position their bubble teams to be in a better shape to get an at large bid. I believe you'll see an ACC team go 10-1 or 9-2 in OOC play against a soft schedule and 8-12 in the ACC with a couple wins over the top tier conference teams & get an at large bid with a 18-13 or 17-14 record.

As more and more money rolls into the Power 5 conferences from TV money those schools are going to pump money into facilities, bringing in higher quality RPI teams for buy games (driving up the price for UD in those games) and investing in coaches/assistant salaries.

Case in point for this is Nebraska. They've built a new arena and moved into the top 10 teams nationally attendance and have top tier facilities. Northwestern is spending $110 million to renovate their basketball arena. 10-15 years ago Dayton looked a lot more competitive recruiting wise against the bottom tier schools of the power 5 conferences.

The AAC is a direct competitor for the few at large bids outside the power leagues. With marquee programs in that league down recently like UConn & Memphis the AAC has managed to win a national championship, have a team get a #2 seed, have multiple teams get 5 seeds and sign McDonald's All Americans. A10 can't do those things

Hurley & Penny get UConn & Memphis back on track to with Wichita, UC, Houston, SMU and potentially a revived Temple and I don't think even the biggest A10 homer could tell me that the future of AAC basketball isn't far brighter than the A10

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Old 05-19-2018, 10:38 AM
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I wonder if we moved to the AAC, whether we would lose the mid-major tag? If so, it is worth it for that alone.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I wonder if we moved to the AAC, whether we would lose the mid-major tag? If so, it is worth it for that alone.
I forget who it was, but heard an announcer last year call the AAC a "high mid major"
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Here's my concern with the A10. I think the league can basically do everything right for the next 5 years and be in a worse position in terms of seeding and at large bids. It's great that the league has been consistently getting multi bids but there's no guarantee that'll be the case going forward.

ACC/Big 10 teams with a 20 game league schedule is going to position their bubble teams to be in a better shape to get an at large bid. I believe you'll see an ACC team go 10-1 or 9-2 in OOC play against a soft schedule and 8-12 in the ACC with a couple wins over the top tier conference teams & get an at large bid with a 18-13 or 17-14 record.

As more and more money rolls into the Power 5 conferences from TV money those schools are going to pump money into facilities, bringing in higher quality RPI teams for buy games (driving up the price for UD in those games) and investing in coaches/assistant salaries.

Case in point for this is Nebraska. They've built a new arena and moved into the top 10 teams nationally attendance and have top tier facilities. Northwestern is spending $110 million to renovate their basketball arena. 10-15 years ago Dayton looked a lot more competitive recruiting wise against the bottom tier schools of the power 5 conferences.

The AAC is a direct competitor for the few at large bids outside the power leagues. With marquee programs in that league down recently like UConn & Memphis the AAC has managed to win a national championship, have a team get a #2 seed, have multiple teams get 5 seeds and sign McDonald's All Americans. A10 can't do those things

Hurley & Penny get UConn & Memphis back on track to with Wichita, UC, Houston, SMU and potentially a revived Temple and I don't think even the biggest A10 homer could tell me that the future of AAC basketball isn't far brighter than the A10
100%. They will be moving light years ahead of the A10. It'd be a great conference!

football be ****ed. Who cares!
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flyerfanman View Post
Giggidy, Giggidy, Giggidy alright! I’m not opposed to the AAC at all and I believe it would be a good move. The A10 is a strange conference but it would be potentially great to have matches with UC, Wichita St, VCU, UCONN, Memphis, Houston and certainly Temple. I’m more into those games than anyone from the A10 other than VCU.
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We are TALKING 4 to 5 Top 30 teams, with another 2 to 3 Top 50 teams.

A10 is becoming a snoozefest unfortunately - this past year specifically. Of course the Top 4 can recover. But It'll never reach the level of these Top 8 teams (including us and VCU, if it were to happen).

Never.
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:15 PM
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Does Dayton have more in common with La Salle which in such dire straights that it's selling off art work to keep the doors open or Wichita State?
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:45 PM
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We can talk about it until we're blue in the face but until I see the administration putting it's power to use, it doesn't do any good. They either need to force the A10 to improve or leave. I don't know how that gets done, but there are people who are paid to figure that stuff out.
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