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Old 07-07-2015, 02:57 PM
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Tim Wabler Replacement

Lets just go ahead and start this thread now.

I think it will be Neil Sullivan. Young, bright guy, and has served as Wablers #2 for the past few years. Other obvious in house candidate is Dave Harper, however I think this is Neil's job and they stay in house.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:59 PM
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Where do I send my resume?
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:04 PM
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Roosevelt Chapman, Oliver Purnell, Jim Paxson.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:49 PM
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Roosevelt Chapman, Oliver Purnell, Jim Paxson.
Of those only Paxson has any experience running the business end of sports, which is what the GMs job is. The days of it going to ex-athletes and coaches is largely past. The AD is responsible for fund raising/revenue, profitability, fund raising/revenue, arena operations, fund raising/revenue, NCAA compliance, fundraising/revenue. Most ex athletes and coaches lack the skill set - some have enough cache they can draw dollars and they work somewhere that is a big enough program with deep pockets so they can hire managers to handle everything else.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:08 PM
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If UD sees being a part of the NBE as a big key to the future, will they hire someone with ties to the current NBE leadership? Who would that be?
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:10 PM
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Thanks Tim!

Originally Posted by 224 View Post
Lets just go ahead and start this thread now.

I think it will be Neil Sullivan. Young, bright guy, and has served as Wablers #2 for the past few years. Other obvious in house candidate is Dave Harper, however I think this is Neil's job and they stay in house.

I hope you are right and they go with Neil or "someone" else with obvious credentials earned elsewhere (cough ------- our EAST somewhere with lots of connections and favors owed)!

Tim picked right up where Ted left off and never missed a beat! We were moving in the right direction on many levels for some time when he got his chance from Ted and he took it and ran!

However, we are a better athletic department today because of Tim's leadership, lack of any "quirks", his strong positive personality, work ethic, devotion to The University of Dayton and Dayton in general, his leadership, etc.

If, if, Neil gets the job-----I would feel a whole lot better about athletics in general and the incoming presidents ability to mold this part of the university to his satisfaction AFTER he gets his bearings and digs in. NOT sure we can be sure of that IF the other option mentioned gets this "plumb" job------clearly NOT having "earned it"---by virtue of the lack luster/horrible performance that we've seen out of our "advancement/fundraising & alumni relations" departments since he took over!

Will the out going president attempt to keep his "foot" in the door in this arena after he steps down? We'll know based upon who the hire is me thinks! I hope the board makes the choice--and doesn't simple rubber stamp the outgoing presidents golden boy for this important position! Time will tell!
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Of those only Paxson has any experience running the business end of sports, which is what the GMs job is. The days of it going to ex-athletes and coaches is largely past. The AD is responsible for fund raising/revenue, profitability, fund raising/revenue, arena operations, fund raising/revenue, NCAA compliance, fundraising/revenue. Most ex athletes and coaches lack the skill set - some have enough cache they can draw dollars and they work somewhere that is a big enough program with deep pockets so they can hire managers to handle everything else.
Doug agreed, Paxson has part of THE "skill set" and more/less on some levels! What he doesn't have right NOW-------he would work very hard to develop in a short period of time! IMHO

The other two names mentioned while done so in passing are both good guys but don't have a shot in HE double L of getting a serious look at UD IMHO.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:46 PM
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UD's athletic program is experiencing unprecedented all-sport success, so it's very tempting to promote from within.

Trouble is, I think Sullivan is FAAAARR too young and unproven (Penn State '02/Robert Morris '03), 9 years at Dayton:
http://www.daytonflyers.com/staff.aspx?staff=7

And Harper (also young) moved from athletics to advancement in 2012:
https://udayton.edu/news/articles/20..._of_dayton.php

Bio says Wabler is UD's 7th AD -- Baujan, Frericks, Kissell -- who are other 3?

Harder to handicap this than a coaching vacancy. Here's some benchmarking:

Xavier, Greg Christopher, Miami (OH) '88
Took over for Mike Bobinski (now Ga Tech)
Formerly AD at Bowling Green
http://www.goxavier.com/genrel/greg_...er_844206.html

Gonzaga, Mike Roth, Willamette '79
18 years at Gonzaga
http://www.gozags.com/genrel/mike_roth_969736.html

Richmond, Keith Gill, Duke '94
Exp: AD at American for 7 yrs
http://www.richmondspiders.com/ViewA...B_OEM_ID=26800

St Joe's, Don DiJulia, SJU '65
long-time administrator, 2nd stint
http://www.sjuhawks.com/ViewArticle....CLID=208734507

St Louis, Chris May, Iowa State '85
7 yrs at St Louis
22 yrs prior at Colorado, lastly Assoc AD
http://www.slubillikens.com/ViewArti...B_OEM_ID=27200

Creighton, Bruce Rasmussen
35 yrs overall, 21 as AD
http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArtic...ATCLID=1147730

Youthful exception -- Ryan Bamford, UMass, Ithaca '00
2 yrs prior as Senior Assoc AD, Ga Tech
http://www.umassathletics.com/genrel/032315aaf.html
____________________________________________

Ted Kissell, Dayton 1992-2009, No Illinois '72
Age 45 when hired at Dayton
7 yrs prior as Assoc AD at Arizona

Tim Wabler, UD 2009-2015, Class of '74
16 years under Kissell, 57 when hired
http://daytonflyers.com/staff.aspx?staff=1


The New Big East is an intriguing wild card. This hire could indicate how actively we're positioning for an invite.

My guess is we hire an Assoc AD from a bigger school -- preferably someone with midwestern roots.

With Wabler being 63 and seemingly always prepared, I suspect there was already a succession plan in place and short list of target names.

No harm in taking a wild guess ... how about a woman? Notre Dame has several females in senior administration. Mike Bobinski was Assoc AD at ND before Xavier. How about 55-year old Missy Conboy, with 29 years experience?
http://www.und.com/school-bio/staff-directory-07.html

Or maybe David Sayler from Miami (OH), Ohio Wesleyan '91?
http://www.muredhawks.com/genrel/dav...er_968410.html

Or Jim Schaus, Ohio Univ, Purdue '83
OU since 2008, Wichita State 9 years prior
http://www.ohiobobcats.com/genrel/schaus_jim00.html

Last edited by Columbia Blue; 07-07-2015 at 05:18 PM..
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2015, 04:53 PM
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I don't think the Big East will have a bearing on anything. That league is not looking to expand any time soon and UD is not on hands and knees begging for an invitation. Two ships currently passing in the night if you ask me. Our needs and priorities are elsewhere. You don't hire someone simply to position yourself for a what-if. You deal with the now.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
UD's athletic program is experiencing unprecedented all-sport success, so it's very tempting to promote from within.

Trouble is, I think Sullivan is FAAAARR too young and unproven (Penn State '02/Robert Morris '03), 9 years at Dayton:
http://www.daytonflyers.com/staff.aspx?staff=7

And Harper (also young) moved from athletics to advancement in 2012:
https://udayton.edu/news/articles/20..._of_dayton.php

Bio says Wabler is UD's 7th AD -- Baujan, Frericks, Kissell -- who are other 3?

Harder to handicap this than a coaching vacancy. Here's some benchmarking:

Xavier, Greg Christopher, Miami (OH) '88
Took over for Mike Bobinski (now Ga Tech)
Formerly AD at Bowling Green
http://www.goxavier.com/genrel/greg_...er_844206.html

Gonzaga, Mike Roth, Willamette '79
18 years at Gonzaga
http://www.gozags.com/genrel/mike_roth_969736.html

Richmond, Keith Gill, Duke '94
Exp: AD at American for 7 yrs
http://www.richmondspiders.com/ViewA...B_OEM_ID=26800

St Joe's, Don DiJulia, SJU '65
long-time administrator, 2nd stint
http://www.sjuhawks.com/ViewArticle....CLID=208734507

St Louis, Chris May, Iowa State '85
7 yrs at St Louis
22 yrs prior at Colorado, lastly Assoc AD
http://www.slubillikens.com/ViewArti...B_OEM_ID=27200

Creighton, Bruce Rasmussen
35 yrs overall, 21 as AD
http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArtic...ATCLID=1147730

Youthful exception -- Ryan Bamford, UMass, Ithaca '00
2 yrs prior as Senior Assoc AD, Ga Tech
http://www.umassathletics.com/genrel/032315aaf.html
____________________________________________

Ted Kissell, Dayton 1992-2009, No Illinois '72
Age 45 when hired at Dayton
7 yrs prior as Assoc AD at Arizona

Tim Wabler, UD 2009-2015, Class of '74
16 years under Kissell, 57 when hired
http://daytonflyers.com/staff.aspx?staff=1


The New Big East is an intriguing wild card. This hire could indicate how actively we're positioning for an invite.

My guess is we hire an Assoc AD from a bigger school -- preferably someone with midwestern roots.

With Wabler being 63 and seemingly always prepared, I suspect there was already a succession plan in place and short list of target names.

No harm in taking a wild guess ... how about a woman? Notre Dame has several females in senior administration. Mike Bobinski was Assoc AD at ND before Xavier. How about 55-year old Missy Conboy, with 29 years experience?
http://www.und.com/school-bio/staff-directory-07.html

Or maybe David Sayler from Miami (OH), Ohio Wesleyan '91?
http://www.muredhawks.com/genrel/dav...er_968410.html

Or Jim Schaus, Ohio Univ, Purdue '83
OU since 2008, Wichita State 9 years prior
http://www.ohiobobcats.com/genrel/schaus_jim00.html
Mickey D AD/ Basketball coach
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:38 PM
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UD's Success in All Sports

is a loud and strong argument for an in-house candidate. The timing of TW's retirement with
President Curran still here tells me he will have significant input into the appointment of his successor.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:46 PM
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If they were keeping it in the family, why wouldn't they announce Sullivan or Harper at today's presser. TW's departure is only 2 months away, and this had to be in the works for awhile. This sounds more like, Sullivan/Harper become interim AD until new president comes on board and we see where we go from there - internal or external. This also gives you the time to talk to all interested parties on the "QT".
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
is a loud and strong argument for an in-house candidate. The timing of TW's retirement with
President Curran still here tells me he will have significant input into the appointment of his successor.
I think you are absolutely correct. The timing and giving less than two months notice is a bit strange. Curran is a BIG athletics fan and I'm betting the new AD will be his last big hire. I've heard they hope to announce a new president by November so this seems to make some sense. I'm expecting Neil or Dave to be announced in the next few weeks. I think today was about Tim and his accomplishments. Naming an in-house AD appointment today would have been taken all the spotlight off Tim (even though I think he's the type of guy that doesn't like the spotlight). Thanks Tim! You did a great job!
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:33 PM
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They've been grooming Neil Sullivan for quite some time and he is very smart. I wouldn't be surprised
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:19 PM
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New AD

Originally Posted by udstevied_D87 View Post
They've been grooming Neil Sullivan for quite some time and he is very smart. I wouldn't be surprised
One of the most important responsibilities an exec has is planning for succession...either his own, or in the case of a basketball-focused school like UD, for the next BB coach.

While we may be lucky enough to have AM for a while, the UD AD must have a "list" prepared at all times. We all know that.

Since Tim is leaving on such short notice, in my opinion, that may be indicative of a family health issue and/or that a decision has been made to replace Tim from the inside. I doubt that UD would want to carry out a search and make a decision in only two months.

I don't know a thing about Sullivan. If he's as smart and capable as some have indicated, nine years at UD....working closely with TW,....would seem to be plenty of time for "grooming". On the other hand, he's about 35...wow!...that's young.

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Old 07-07-2015, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

I don't know a thing about Sullivan. If he's as smart and capable as some have indicated, nine years at UD....working closely with TW,....would seem to be plenty of time for "grooming". On the other hand, he's about 35...wow!...that's young.

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Not as young as Archie when he was hired - 32.
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:56 PM
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Brother Ray was 37 when he became UD's President.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I don't know a thing about Sullivan. If he's as smart and capable as some have indicated, nine years at UD....working closely with TW,....would seem to be plenty of time for "grooming". On the other hand, he's about 35...wow!...that's young.

Go Flyers!
Archie would be older than the AD!
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:21 PM
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Part of the reason Harper moved to advancement was to gain more experience in fundraising. This is a huge and important part of an ADs job, and with Harpers resume in athletics, the only thing he was missing to be an AD (at UD or somewhere else) was experience in devolopment. He's succeeded in his current role, so he now has all the tools.

Recently, Sullivan has been being groomed to replace Wabler. I don't think people thought Wabler would retire for a few more years, so is he ready or still need more experience?

Either way, IMO whoever doesn't get the job will choose to leave UD.

Last edited by 224; 07-07-2015 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:49 PM
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am i the only one thinking "what does archie think about this?"
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:25 PM
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UD's promotion from within is concerned with continuing what has already been accomplished...not based on potential conference affiliation.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
I don't think the Big East will have a bearing on anything. That league is not looking to expand any time soon and UD is not on hands and knees begging for an invitation. Two ships currently passing in the night if you ask me. Our needs and priorities are elsewhere. You don't hire someone simply to position yourself for a what-if. You deal with the now.
Ran into TW in Brooklyn. He made clear that NBE is where they wanted to be.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:08 PM
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What about Mike Kelly
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hankj22 View Post
What about Mike Kelly
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Interesting thought. But isn't Kelly older than Tim Wabler?
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Interesting thought. But isn't Kelly older than Tim Wabler?
Coach Kelly is an incredible guy--an incredible UD guy! I don't think he has the temperment for
THIS job at UD. Please note that is in no way a slight on Coach Kelly.

You mention his name-----need anyone say more? HOF, and that doesn't touch the surface!

Go Flyers!
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Interesting thought. But isn't Kelly older than Tim Wabler?

Kelly is 67
Wabler is 63
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:21 PM
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I vote very strongly to keep this in-house, the basketball program is en fuego, don't mess with success.
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
Part of the reason Harper moved to advancement was to gain more experience in fundraising. This is a huge and important part of an ADs job, and with Harpers resume in athletics, the only thing he was missing to be an AD (at UD or somewhere else) was experience in devolopment. He's succeeded in his current role, so he now has all the tools. . .

The bigger reason Dave Harper was moved to advancement was to clean up the mess over there. The department was underperforming, with a lot of turmoil and staff turnover. If the U thinks he did a good job there (in a job he didn't seek out) there is a good chance he will be our next AD.

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Old 07-07-2015, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Ran into TW in Brooklyn. He made clear that NBE is where they wanted to be.
Thats never been the impression I have gotten. The message was UD wanted to put themselves in the best position possible. But that does not necessarily mean its NBE or bust. It might, but it might not. There are many cogs at work. You never want to publicly declare your interest in being in a particular group more than that particular group wants you. Ive yet to ever hear anyone at UD publicly make such a statement when I was in the room and Ive been in a lot of rooms with Tim, Dave, Neil, etc.

Regardless, the next hire will have nothing to do with the NBE. Thats someone else's league. You don't hire someone to solve a problem where there is no problem.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:18 AM
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These are strange times. The power conferences are fantasizing about getting ALL the NCAA Basketball Tournament money, not just MOST of it.

They want to cut Division 1 down to 110 teams or less and keep a few non-BCS football schools around for window dressing. Fewer mouths at the table and fewer chances that a Cinderella will come out of nowhere and make a run and kick some richly deserving, under achieving, Power Five schools out of the dance.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/q-a-wi...965-ncaab.html
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Thats never been the impression I have gotten. The message was UD wanted to put themselves in the best position possible. But that does not necessarily mean its NBE or bust. It might, but it might not. There are many cogs at work. You never want to publicly declare your interest in being in a particular group more than that particular group wants you. Ive yet to ever hear anyone at UD publicly make such a statement when I was in the room and Ive been in a lot of rooms with Tim, Dave, Neil, etc.

Regardless, the next hire will have nothing to do with the NBE. Thats someone else's league. You don't hire someone to solve a problem where there is no problem.
Of course you won't hear anyone from UD state the desire to leave your current conference and join another one publicly, and of course UD shouldn't proceed as if the NBE is the only path forward. Therefore, because it is something they would not talk about publicly, I am curious to know what they are saying/thinking privately.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by flyer2003 View Post
Of course you won't hear anyone from UD state the desire to leave your current conference and join another one publicly, and of course UD shouldn't proceed as if the NBE is the only path forward. Therefore, because it is something they would not talk about publicly, I am curious to know what they are saying/thinking privately.
The conversation I referenced above, was on Friday night in a restaurant in Brooklyn. Someone in our group asked TW about the NBE and somewhere in the dialogue, he made a comment along the lines of, who would you rather see the Flyers play, SBU and Fordham or Marquette and Villanova? I am not suggesting UD would or should tie everything with a new AD hire (or any other position for that matter) to getting in the NBE but I have to believe it is something on their mind. The landscape of the college business including athletics is changing and I believe UD see the two as related. I believe UD is very aware of that fact and doing everything necessary to stay relevant.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:12 AM
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You would have to be sick in the head to not prefer the BE versus the A10. If advancement is what you want across the board, it's an absolute no brainer.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:12 AM
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So now the NBE isn't our goal? Isn't that the "what if" drum our athletic department has been beating for the past how many years or did I just imagine that? But we failed to meet the goal that has been driving almost every action the first time around, so now it isn't a goal. Yeah, ok, the A-10 is a much more natural fit with all our historical peers.....

If UD has any vision, and is serious about elevating not just the basketball program but the national profile of the school, it will hire someone with deep ties to the NBE. Sadly I think the chances of that happening are about zero.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:25 AM
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I'm torn, don't want to change anything on the one hand with things rolling, but, I didn't fully consider the BE implications on the other hand, look at the Creighton benefit in their relationship with Marquette. Seems that this applies not only to the AD position, but to the university president position, DC's replacement, as well.

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Old 07-08-2015, 09:44 AM
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Never publicly....

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Ran into TW in Brooklyn. He made clear that NBE is where they wanted to be.
Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Thats never been the impression I have gotten. The message was UD wanted to put themselves in the best position possible. But that does not necessarily mean its NBE or bust. It might, but it might not. There are many cogs at work. You never want to publicly declare your interest in being in a particular group more than that particular group wants you. Ive yet to ever hear anyone at UD publicly make such a statement when I was in the room and Ive been in a lot of rooms with Tim, Dave, Neil, etc.

Regardless, the next hire will have nothing to do with the NBE. Thats someone else's league. You don't hire someone to solve a problem where there is no problem.
UD would never state publicly that wanted to be in the NBE. The A10 has been very good for UD and vice versa...and it may remain our home for a very long time.

Privately, however, UD officials do not hesitate to say that the NBE is where UD wants to be....and, most important, not because of basketball.

Over the past two years it has been proven that Dayton can achieve national prominence in basketball while in the A10. Aside from a few extra bucks, the only significant advantage of the NBE...and it could be important,...is protection in the event the Power 5 drive changes in the NCAA that disadvantage some conferences.

UD wants in the NBE for reasons related to its strong desire to be considered as being among the nations top tier of Catholic universities, which it is not currently.

The hierarchy of "Catholics" is comprised of an elite three, BC, ND and GU, having much money and unique prestige...and all the rest. Among the top tier of the "rest" are Villanova, Marquette, St. Johns and a few others, perhaps, based on perception. It's my understanding that UD aspires to achieve a level of national recognition and respect that will be significantly enhanced by being grouped among the NBE schools. As is, it's likely that a significant percentage of the population is unaware that Dayton is a Catholic university.
Quite possibly Saint Louis University feels much the same way. Although having a med school adds greatly to a school's prestige.

"Dayton" is the name of a city. It's entirely understandable that many are unaware that UD is a private Catholic institution. Right or wrong, I have been told that UD has concluded that NBE membership would enhance the school's reputation in ways that go way beyond athletics.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

The hierarchy of "Catholics" is comprised of an elite three, BC, ND and GU, having much money and unique prestige...and all the rest. Among the top tier of the "rest" are Villanova, Marquette, St. Johns and a few others, perhaps, based on perception. It's my understanding that UD aspires to achieve a level of national recognition and respect that will be significantly enhanced by being grouped among the NBE schools. As is, it's likely that a significant percentage of the population is unaware that Dayton is a Catholic university.
Quite possibly Saint Louis University feels much the same way. Although having a med school adds greatly to a school's prestige.

"Dayton" is the name of a city. It's entirely understandable that many are unaware that UD is a private Catholic institution. Right or wrong, I have been told that UD has concluded that NBE membership would enhance the school's reputation in ways that go way beyond athletics.
Where is BC? What do the initials stand for?
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:40 AM
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Elite three...

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Where is BC? What do the initials stand for?
`80.....Boston College, Notre Dame and Georgetown comprise the "elite" Catholic three using just about any criteria you choose, e.g. U.S. News ranking, endowment size, national name recognition, ranking of graduate and professional programs, athletics name recognition, admission selectivity, HS academic ranking of freshmen class, etc.

The rest of the major Catholics rank well below these three all things considered.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:45 AM
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From a staff standpoint, whoever gets the job seems to be in good shape. Teams are winning. Coaches seem to be happy. I am one who takes Archie at his word and believes that he really does like UD and believes that he can be successful here. Clearly, JJ has been on the other side of the fence and knows a good thing when he's building it. Soccer and Volleyball are humming along.
When it comes to the major revenue and higher profile sports, the main qualification will be give them what they need and don't screw it up.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
`80.....Boston College, Notre Dame and Georgetown comprise the "elite" Catholic three using just about any criteria you choose, e.g. U.S. News ranking, endowment size, national name recognition, ranking of graduate and professional programs, athletics name recognition, admission selectivity, HS academic ranking of freshmen class, etc.

The rest of the major Catholics rank well below these three all things considered.
Thanks for reiterating the elite Catholic universities. Not arguing that and not arguing that UD doesn't want to move up in the ranks of Catholic U's. It seemed as though you were indicating that because U of Dayton has the city name in the name of the school, people would not think of it as Catholic. I was trying to point out in my smart *ss way that was not the case.

I would bet most of the general public would not identify the Catholic U's other than ND. Many would also be surprised that USC (that is the California one and not the one with the "X" flag) is a private school. The same goes for U of Miami.

The people in the know, realize UD is a Catholic university.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:17 AM
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Sorry, `80...

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Thanks for reiterating the elite Catholic universities. Not arguing that and not arguing that UD doesn't want to move up in the ranks of Catholic U's. It seemed as though you were indicating that because U of Dayton has the city name in the name of the school, people would not think of it as Catholic. I was trying to point out in my smart *ss way that was not the case.

I would bet most of the general public would not identify the Catholic U's other than ND. Many would also be surprised that USC (that is the California one and not the one with the "X" flag) is a private school. The same goes for U of Miami.

The people in the know, realize UD is a Catholic university.
You're humor was too subtle for me. Sure, BC is named after a city, as is Dayton. But, surely you are not suggesting that UD is as well known as BC.

As for "people in the know", I understand that. People in the know just about always are on top of things. Unfortunately, the majority is not "in the know".

It takes a long time to establish a reputation...and reputation is a lagging indicator. Over the last decade Dayton has rocketed upward by most measures. But, it's likely that it will be another decade or two before UD enjoys a reputation that befits its actual position in the overall scheme of things. Just the way it is. Apparently the U's leadership thinks name association with NBE schools will be a plus. Maybe, maybe not.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
You're humor was too subtle for me. Sure, BC is named after a city, as is Dayton. But, surely you are not suggesting that UD is as well known as BC.

As for "people in the know", I understand that. People in the know just about always are on top of things. Unfortunately, the majority is not "in the know".

It takes a long time to establish a reputation...and reputation is a lagging indicator. Over the last decade Dayton has rocketed upward by most measures. But, it's likely that it will be another decade or two before UD enjoys a reputation that befits its actual position in the overall scheme of things. Just the way it is. Apparently the U's leadership thinks name association with NBE schools will be a plus. Maybe, maybe not.
Agree BC is more well known than UD but still most people don't know BC is Catholic. We Catholics tend to believe the rest of the world is more aware of us than they really are.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:39 AM
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There is a reason NBE schools do not schedule us despite our attempts. And its not out of love respect and admiration. We have a better mutual respect with the SEC. Think about that.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:49 AM
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I'm a bit nervous to open this can of worms, but Archie is a huge advocate of TW and has said that he's a big reason he is where he is. He has a lot of loyalty to TW for hiring him while unproven. This could really affect Archie's future IMO-- I really hope not, but it's certainly a possibility.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:12 PM
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After sleeping on this, I have to say I'm a bit concerned. The short turnaround, no interim AD, not staying around until a replacement is announced, all lead me to believe that there is more to this story than a normal planned retirement. While I am praying that there is not a health component to the decision, it would certainly be an acceptable reason.

That said, Neil Sullivan might just be "the guy", especially if he and AM work well together. His UD bio says:

Neil Sullivan has been working at the University of Dayton since June of 2006 and currently serves as the Deputy Athletics Director.
Sullivan has management responsibility for Finance, Governance, External Affairs, Facilities and men’s basketball program administration.

Sullivan earned a Master’s of Business Administration degree from Robert Morris University in 2003. The Pittsburgh-area native earned his undergraduate degree from Penn State University in 2002.


He checks almost all the boxes and is an internal hire:
Finance
Governance
External Affairs
Facilities
Mens BBall Administration
Sounds like he does it all except specifically fundraising - that's where Harper comes in. If Harper and Sullivan can work together, we may be ok.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:18 PM
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When I get hired, I will get us in the ACC and sign Archie to a lifetime contract, with a favorable buyout on our end (just in case). So calm down people.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:25 PM
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What makes folks think Tim Wabler is not staying around until a replacement is named. He is stepping down in September, not July 8th. Id say the chances a new AD is named by September is about 99.999999999%.

Stuff does not happen in a vacuum. Tim didn't sit down one day last week, summons everyone in the room, and say, "Im done. Im retiring. Figure it out on your own." Im quite certain there have been wheels in motion long before it reached the public conscience. The press conference is not the beginning of the story, its probably somewhere in the middle.

Not every story is a Grassy Knoll editorial. Sometimes it really is just what it is: a guy is retiring.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
UD would never state publicly that wanted to be in the NBE. The A10 has been very good for UD and vice versa...and it may remain our home for a very long time.

Privately, however, UD officials do not hesitate to say that the NBE is where UD wants to be....and, most important, not because of basketball.

Over the past two years it has been proven that Dayton can achieve national prominence in basketball while in the A10. Aside from a few extra bucks, the only significant advantage of the NBE...and it could be important,...is protection in the event the Power 5 drive changes in the NCAA that disadvantage some conferences.

UD wants in the NBE for reasons related to its strong desire to be considered as being among the nations top tier of Catholic universities, which it is not currently.

The hierarchy of "Catholics" is comprised of an elite three, BC, ND and GU, having much money and unique prestige...and all the rest. Among the top tier of the "rest" are Villanova, Marquette, St. Johns and a few others, perhaps, based on perception. It's my understanding that UD aspires to achieve a level of national recognition and respect that will be significantly enhanced by being grouped among the NBE schools. As is, it's likely that a significant percentage of the population is unaware that Dayton is a Catholic university.
Quite possibly Saint Louis University feels much the same way. Although having a med school adds greatly to a school's prestige.

"Dayton" is the name of a city. It's entirely understandable that many are unaware that UD is a private Catholic institution. Right or wrong, I have been told that UD has concluded that NBE membership would enhance the school's reputation in ways that go way beyond athletics.
I just wanted to address your first comment. UD HAS made it clear they want in the Big East.


Wabler and Archie publicly said it when I saw them speak in Chicago. Also, I went to an event in Buffalo the night before Syracuse, it was the first questioned as was about the NBE. Wablers response "we want in. Period. Everything we do is about positioning ourselves to get in."
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:38 PM
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I guess you can decide if that is publicly or privately.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bhflyer5 View Post
I'm a bit nervous to open this can of worms, but Archie is a huge advocate of TW and has said that he's a big reason he is where he is. He has a lot of loyalty to TW for hiring him while unproven. This could really affect Archie's future IMO-- I really hope not, but it's certainly a possibility.
Archie was a huge TW guy and felt loyalty to him for taking a chance on a young guy.

Now it is Archies turn to be loyal to the new unproven young guy and stick around awhile making our new young unproven AD's job easier.

I am not worried.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:43 PM
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Right from the "get go" I have not understood the love affair with the New Big Least. It is the proverbial "pig in a poke". Not a good fit for UD!
Those east coast catholic schools will never accept UD as a peer.... just toooo arrogant. We need to go our own way and forget about those that do not want to associate with us! We are better than them!
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
Right from the "get go" I have not understood the love affair with the New Big Least. It is the proverbial "pig in a poke". Not a good fit for UD!
Those east coast catholic schools will never accept UD as a peer.... just toooo arrogant. We need to go our own way and forget about those that do not want to associate with us! We are better than them!
Agree or disagree with the above but I think the UD administration (include whoever you want) has stated privately and publically that they want in the NBE.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:57 PM
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East Coast?

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
Right from the "get go" I have not understood the love affair with the New Big Least. It is the proverbial "pig in a poke". Not a good fit for UD!
Those east coast catholic schools will never accept UD as a peer.... just toooo arrogant. We need to go our own way and forget about those that do not want to associate with us! We are better than them!
Half of the NBE are UD's mid-west peers...at least peers in our eyes. Dayton has enjoyed long-standing relations with the five mid-west schools of the NBE, What reason is there to believe that those five do not respect UD and or otherwise wish to be associated with UD? They were more than willing to associate with us for years. Two of them were in the A10 with us.
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Dayton has enjoyed long-standing relations with the five mid-west schools of the NBE, What reason is there to believe that those five do not respect UD and or otherwise wish to be associated with UD?
You mean other than the fact that these aforementioned institutions have ignored us for the last two decades, or are you looking for another reason.

Your definition of long-standing and my definition of long-standing are not congruent.

Last scheduled games that did not include exempt/bracketed in-season tournaments or postseason tournies:

Butler - 2013 - was not a member of the Big East
Creighton - 2009 - was not a member of the Big East
DePaul - 2005 (first year in the Big East)
Georgetown - 1952
Marquette - 2005 (first year in the Big East)
Providence - 1984
Seton Hall - 2011 (two games since 1977)
St. John's - 1974
Villanova - 2003
Xavier - N/A

Throw out Butler, Creighton, and Xavier b/c they are not historical Big East teams. That leaves 7 from either the old BE or new BE. Collectively they have scheduled Dayton twice in the last decade. Two games -- both by national power Seton Hall. Since 1970, only four of the seven teams have even played us in a series. After the first year of the re-aligned Big East in 2005, only Seton Hall has agreed to play us. As Porky Pig would say, that's all, folks. That said, the other three fresh Big East teams have chosen not to schedule us either since joining the NBE.

Our supposed BFFs DePaul and Marquette havent scheduled us in 10 years. And the brand name teams like Nova, St. John's and Georgetown want nothing to do with us -- some of them for multiple decades.

Its all well and good to think Dayton needs to belong with the upper tier Catholic national universities. But the other side of that is those other upper tier Catholic national universities don't want much to do with Dayton. I think that's the part many fans either choose to ignore or choose to deny.

I want to be with Heidi Klum. Problem is, she doesn't want to be with me. It's kind of a problem.

The new UD athletic director may very well eventually get Dayton in the Big East, but it will not be without having to traverse many large and important relationship issues that have been almost irrevocably destroyed over the last 10-20-30 years -- nearly all of it not UD's doing unless you consider UD's lack of success the only crutch that matters. But its hard to imagine that considering Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, and others have fared far worse in recent times with far less to boast about.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:02 PM
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The same game Dayton plays...

Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
You mean other than the fact that these aforementioned institutions have ignored us for two the last decades, or are you looking for another reason.

Your definition of long-standing and my definition of long-standing are not congruent.

Last scheduled games that did not include exempt/bracketed in-season tournaments or postseason tournies:

Butler - 2013 - was not a member of the Big East
Creighton - 2009 - was not a member of the Big East
DePaul - 2005 (first year in the Big East)
Georgetown - 1952
Marquette - 2005 (first year in the Big East)
Providence - 1984
Seton Hall - 2011 (two games since 1977)
St. John's - 1974
Villanova - 2003
Xavier - N/A

Throw out Butler, Creighton, and Xavier b/c they are not historical Big East teams. That leaves 7 from either the old BE or new BE. Collectively they have scheduled Dayton twice in the last decade. Two games -- both by national power Seton Hall. Since 1970, only four of the seven teams have even played us in a series. After the first year of the re-aligned Big East in 2005, only Seton Hall has agreed to play us. As Porky Pig would say, that's all, folks. That said, the other three fresh Big East teams have chosen not to schedule us either since joining the NBE.

Our supposed BFFs DePaul and Marquette havent scheduled us in 10 years. And the brand name teams like Nova, St. John's and Georgetown want nothing to do with us -- some of them for multiple decades.

Its all well and good to think Dayton needs to belong with the upper tier Catholic national universities. But the other side of that is those other upper tier Catholic national universities don't want much to do with Dayton. I think that's the part many fans either choose to ignore or choose to deny.

I want to be with Heidi Klum. Problem is, she doesn't want to be with me. It's kind of a problem.

The new UD athletic director may very well eventually get Dayton in the Big East, but it will not be without having to traverse many large and important relationship issues that have been almost irrevocably destroyed over the last 10-20-30 years -- nearly all of it not UD's doing unless you consider UD's lack of success the only crutch that matters. But its hard to imagine that considering Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, and others have fared far worse in recent times with far less to boast about.
Each year UD goes through an exercise in which it evaluates possible opponents based on criteria such as: impact on RPI; willingness to start a series; willingness to play in a buy game at the Arena. The schools of the NBE do the same thing, including the mid-west schools that at one time were regular opponents. Those schools want to make the Dance in March as do we.

And, the fact is that a probable road loss against a Dayton team typical of the pre-AM past two decades or so would be a 'bad loss". And UD will not agree to a single road game....it has to be a series.

Thus, looking out for their own best interests, as do we, they will not schedule a series. That's a different motivation than "not liking or respecting UD". We use exactly the same process as we develop our schedules.

Now, the UD of the last two years is not the UD of past recent decades. If we keep it up for another few years, finally, "Dayton will have come back". By keep it up I mean near the top of the A10 and regular, successful NCAA appearances. When/if that happens a loss at the Arena will no longer be a "bad loss"....and that will be reflected by the willingness of schools like NBE schools to schedule series with UD.

This line of reasoning makes more sense to me than the suggestion that NBE schools neither like or respect Dayton. Consider the views expressed on this board re scheduling schools like Miami, Wright State, etc. It's not that we feel disrespectful toward such schools. It's simply that adding/having them on our schedule does us no good and may cause harm.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:21 PM
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Neil Sullivan was a teammate of my son in high school and a pupil of my wife. Believe me when I tell you that that no one will work harder or be more driven to succeed than Neil. If I remember correctly he completed his undergraduate degree at PSU in 3 years. If I had a vote, he'd get mine...despite his age.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum View Post
Neil Sullivan was a teammate of my son in high school and a pupil of my wife. Believe me when I tell you that that no one will work harder or be more driven to succeed than Neil. If I remember correctly he completed his undergraduate degree at PSU in 3 years. If I had a vote, he'd get mine...despite his age.
I am with you, 73. I think he is young, energetic, smart, and committed to UD. I want someone who is home-grown, as opposed to someone who would waltz in here with all types of supposed credentials, only to leave in three years. Bring on Sullivan!
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:57 PM
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I'm much more concerned about the new AD getting along with Archie than hiring some outside guy who may have ties to some conference that doesn't want UD.

I'm not suggesting Archie is hard to get along with, but I would feel more comfortable if it was someone Archie trusted and would like to work for, like Wabler

Archie is much more important to me than the NBE.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles View Post
I'm much more concerned about the new AD getting along with Archie than hiring some outside guy who may have ties to some conference that doesn't want UD.

I'm not suggesting Archie is hard to get along with, but I would feel more comfortable if it was someone Archie trusted and would like to work for, like Wabler

Archie is much more important to me than the NBE.
I am pretty sure I would be giving Archie the right of veto on candidates.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles View Post

Archie is much more important to me than the NBE.
Originally Posted by cralford View Post
I am pretty sure I would be giving Archie the right of veto on candidates.
Archie is much more important to me than the NBE or the NAD (New Athletics Director). The NAD is certainly a very important hire, but there's a reason why all this discussion is on the Men's Basketball forum.
Here are my current odds:
Harper 2:3
Sullivan 5:2
Kelly 50:1
Field 9:1
My gut says Harper, but my heart says Sullivan.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:55 PM
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Another thread veered toward the Omni present discussion about the NBE.

I feel very strongly that we should completely ignore that conference and focus on making UD athletics as good as they can be, and in a broader sense work toward making the A10 the best conference it can be. Nothing scares the NBE more than a strong A10, and if the A10 is strong, the best thing the NBE can do is come begging the top A10 teams to join them. When that happens, they'll know exactly where to find us.

We are better than most teams in the NBE, and we have something none of them has and they all wish they could have: the unwavering support of one of the most fanatical fan bases in all of college basketball. I love the position we're in, no need to worry about whether or not we get into that conference, and my preference is to stay right where we are.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
These are strange times. The power conferences are fantasizing about getting ALL the NCAA Basketball Tournament money, not just MOST of it.

They want to cut Division 1 down to 110 teams or less and keep a few non-BCS football schools around for window dressing. Fewer mouths at the table and fewer chances that a Cinderella will come out of nowhere and make a run and kick some richly deserving, under achieving, Power Five schools out of the dance.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/q-a-wi...965-ncaab.html
Interesting about the 110/128 teams.

14 Big 10

14 SEC

12 PAC 10

15 ACC plus Notre Dame

10 Big 12

11 American

10 Big East

10 MVC

That's 97, I think you have to include the Mountain West with 11 and the WCC with 10, and the A10 with 14.

That's 132.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Each year UD goes through an exercise in which it evaluates possible opponents based on criteria such as: impact on RPI; willingness to start a series; willingness to play in a buy game at the Arena. The schools of the NBE do the same thing, including the mid-west schools that at one time were regular opponents. Those schools want to make the Dance in March as do we.

And, the fact is that a probable road loss against a Dayton team typical of the pre-AM past two decades or so would be a 'bad loss". And UD will not agree to a single road game....it has to be a series.

Thus, looking out for their own best interests, as do we, they will not schedule a series. That's a different motivation than "not liking or respecting UD". We use exactly the same process as we develop our schedules.

Now, the UD of the last two years is not the UD of past recent decades. If we keep it up for another few years, finally, "Dayton will have come back". By keep it up I mean near the top of the A10 and regular, successful NCAA appearances. When/if that happens a loss at the Arena will no longer be a "bad loss"....and that will be reflected by the willingness of schools like NBE schools to schedule series with UD.

This line of reasoning makes more sense to me than the suggestion that NBE schools neither like or respect Dayton. Consider the views expressed on this board re scheduling schools like Miami, Wright State, etc. It's not that we feel disrespectful toward such schools. It's simply that adding/having them on our schedule does us no good and may cause harm.
I simply cannot believe that you can rationally type out what you just did with a straight face...... What part of "red headed step child" do you not see? It is as plain as the nose on one's face!
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:51 PM
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Yeah thats it. DePaul won't play us because we'd be a bad loss on their schedule. In 2006 or 2015. Gotta be the reason, despite the fact that losing to us would have improved their RPI at any point in the last decade.
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:29 AM
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Looks like I just don't get it,...

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
I simply cannot believe that you can rationally type out what you just did with a straight face...... What part of "red headed step child" do you not see? It is as plain as the nose on one's face!
Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Yeah thats it. DePaul won't play us because we'd be a bad loss on their schedule. In 2006 or 2015. Gotta be the reason, despite the fact that losing to us would have improved their RPI at any point in the last decade.
1) Regarding Terry's gentle response..I don't even understand it.

2) Re Chris',...so, Depaul won't play us, and neither will other NBE schools...and it's not because they might lose or for some other reason that might be related to their view of what's best for them.

Re 2) OK why not? They don't like us? They don't like Marianists? They're mad at us because of things we've done in the past? They think so little of UD as an academic institution that they don't want to be associated with us in any way? They consider our men's BB program as way below theirs? There is a conspiracy of some sort? All of the above?

I just find it difficult to understand why a group of schools as different from one another...really different,...as those that comprise the NBE would collectively or individually decide that they will not schedule UD other than their own self interest. I realize they have not been doing it for a long time. But, that is also the case with many, many other schools that we'd love to play...is it not?
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
It is as plain as the nose on one's face!
It's as Ann as the nose on plain's face!
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Thats never been the impression I have gotten. The message was UD wanted to put themselves in the best position possible. But that does not necessarily mean its NBE or bust. It might, but it might not. There are many cogs at work. You never want to publicly declare your interest in being in a particular group more than that particular group wants you. Ive yet to ever hear anyone at UD publicly make such a statement when I was in the room and Ive been in a lot of rooms with Tim, Dave, Neil, etc.

Regardless, the next hire will have nothing to do with the NBE. Thats someone else's league. You don't hire someone to solve a problem where there is no problem.
I HAVE been in a room full of Flyer fans at UD that Tim was speaking to about the entire Flyer athletic program. The NBE question and our interest in joining it came up. Tim unequivocally stated we would not hesitate one second to jump if the opportunity occurred. He went on to cite the reasons. TV money was #1 and there was, as I recall, about a 5X or 6X difference in yearly income between the A10 and NBE from this source. There were a couple other reasons as well, all of which made a very logical and strong case for jumping.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
What makes folks think Tim Wabler is not staying around until a replacement is named. He is stepping down in September, not July 8th. Id say the chances a new AD is named by September is about 99.999999999%.

Stuff does not happen in a vacuum. Tim didn't sit down one day last week, summons everyone in the room, and say, "Im done. Im retiring. Figure it out on your own." Im quite certain there have been wheels in motion long before it reached the public conscience. The press conference is not the beginning of the story, its probably somewhere in the middle.

Not every story is a Grassy Knoll editorial. Sometimes it really is just what it is: a guy is retiring.
When Wabler hired Archie he told the Flyers Club that one of the primary objectives in helping Archie build a staff was to do it with a succession plan in mind. He lamented how in the past, whenever a BB coach left UD, there was no one internally that was ready to take over, with the result that we ended up with a hope and a prayer that a new guy would be the answer. Purnell and Gregory proved to be OK but O'Brien was an unmitigated disaster. Tim contrasted that history with the success Xavier has had with internal promotions. With that sort of thinking, I can't imagine Tim has not done the same planning and mentoring for his own succession.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum View Post
Neil Sullivan was a teammate of my son in high school and a pupil of my wife.
Where is he from?? Dayton? or somewhere in PA?


Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum View Post
If I remember correctly he completed his undergraduate degree at PSU in 3 years. If I had a vote, he'd get mine...despite his age.
Is he a keeper? or being a Big10 grad, is he going to be looking for greener pastures in 5-10 years??


I know nothing about Sullivan except what I've read here but I know Dave Harper who, as I've stated, is my choice. He's an Alter grad, left UD once, gained valuable experience (and perspective) at UM, came back and will be here for the rest of his life if offered the AD's position.

Tell me more about Sullivan to convince me he's a lifer at UD.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post

I want to be with Heidi Klum. Problem is, she doesn't want to be with me. It's kind of a problem.
I like the Heidi Klum analogy to the NBE. Once a hot supermodel ... now just...so, so.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I like the Heidi Klum analogy to the NBE. Once a hot supermodel ... now just...so, so.
Interesting. So a hot supermodel is just so so. Does that mean she is a hot model now rather than a supermodel?

In degrees F (or C if so inclined) how much has she cooled down? Like say 212F to a nice 160F.

Inquiring minds are wondering (and dreaming)!
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:09 AM
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It'd be nice to be in the NBE if for no other reason than to have more appealing teams come to the Arena; but, if not, many teams have shown there is an alternate path by being the consistent winner in your own conference. Just keep winning and make the right hires to do that.

I would never expect officials to discuss anything publicly -- and it would be a terrible idea if they did -- I am more curious on what they say privately.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Interesting. So a hot supermodel is just so so. Does that mean she is a hot model now rather than a supermodel?

In degrees F (or C if so inclined) how much has she cooled down? Like say 212F to a nice 160F.

Inquiring minds are wondering (and dreaming)!
ONCE a hot supermodel. She no longer is. Spanx, make-up and air-brushing does wonders. In *F, she was 110. Now 70.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
1) Regarding Terry's gentle response..I don't even understand it.

2) Re Chris',...so, Depaul won't play us, and neither will other NBE schools...and it's not because they might lose or for some other reason that might be related to their view of what's best for them.

Re 2) OK why not? They don't like us? They don't like Marianists? They're mad at us because of things we've done in the past? They think so little of UD as an academic institution that they don't want to be associated with us in any way? They consider our men's BB program as way below theirs? There is a conspiracy of some sort? All of the above?

I just find it difficult to understand why a group of schools as different from one another...really different,...as those that comprise the NBE would collectively or individually decide that they will not schedule UD other than their own self interest. I realize they have not been doing it for a long time. But, that is also the case with many, many other schools that we'd love to play...is it not?
UAC. I think you don't get it because you fail to see what is and believe in your mind what you don't see.

That's fine but reality says that there is something going on here. So as soon as teams move to the BE or NBE that 'special link' they had with UD is broken. W_YZ is gone, so are the games, Butler? Marquette and Al Mcquire it was well known that words were exchanged on multiple occasions to DD and this community. DePaul? As lowly as they ARE can't play us? You talk about it being purely about playing here and impacting their RPI? Wouldn't a home and home off set such a worry? Were we that PRI poor that the possible loss would impact the opponents own RPI?

The only other thought here would be that UD has the issue about scheduling them. We do not want to play some of these teams in the NBE because ..... we would lose... but we play the SEC and we scheduled those teams because we know we will win? Not sure we are that arrogant!

I personally have a problem playing Miami of OH just because of what their RPI and regional focus does not add to our resume. Outside of Oxford and Dayton, who cares about the outcome? But how does that square with teams such as Villanova, Marquette, St John's? There is no direct link to a regional conflict, their RPI typically is at least as good as ours. Yes I am saying the value of playing Miami is very low no matter the outcome. So is the reason we do not want to play those NBE teams is that there is no value? Or is that how those NBE teams value US?

Maybe you've hit the nail on the head. In their own self interest they have decided, not collectively, but nevertheless in group think, that the value of playing us is NOT of any value. If that is the case, then the solution is found. Lamenting about it is a waste of time. It is what it is. We move on. We also reserve that same privilege in not scheduling certain local teams that we deem have no value to US no matter the outcome.

I'm fine with that too, and I don't think the U should bend and twist to be 'acceptable' to the NBE. We move on and play who ever we want and whoever wants to play us. At the end of the day that is ALL we can control .... and be happy in what we have.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:03 AM
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The new AD will have to think Big. And I do not mean Big East. The new AD needs to think BCS. Perhaps the big ten. I am sure Tosu would welcome a second school from Ohio so they could be like Michigan, Indiana and Illinois.

But more probably the conference to ask Dayton to be a member would be the ACC because it has a current penchant for schools with city names like Miami, Boston, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville (If UConn had moved from Storrs to the state capital and changed their name to Hartford University they would currently be in the ACC) and it already has one school that just plays basketball in its conference. If Dayton wants to go the ACC route, it should find someone with ties to the ACC. May I be so bold as to suggest BG who also has strong Dayton ties and always seemed to me to be very good a public relations a necessity for fund raising.

Another obvious choice for the Flyers would be to join the SEC. While the Big East would not deign to play Dayton in basketball, the Flyers have been able to get and win games against the SEC on an annual basis. It can not be doubted that this means that though Dayton is dissed by the Big East, that he SEC likes and respects Dayton. No doubt if they became aware that the Flyers were looking for a new conference, the SEC would come begging.

Of course joining a BCS conference might result in the ever so slight possibility of having to develop a football program. But this would only require the building of a new football stadium, practice facilities, finding a coaching staff and finding money for a couple of more scholarships. All a small challenge for the next AD if he is good and probably a prime inducement to getting the best AD possible. Which after all is what we really want.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:35 AM
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Why don't I get it?

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
UAC. I think you don't get it because you fail to see what is and believe in your mind what you don't see.

That's fine but reality says that there is something going on here. So as soon as teams move to the BE or NBE that 'special link' they had with UD is broken. W_YZ is gone, so are the games, Butler? Marquette and Al Mcquire it was well known that words were exchanged on multiple occasions to DD and this community. DePaul? As lowly as they ARE can't play us? You talk about it being purely about playing here and impacting their RPI? Wouldn't a home and home off set such a worry? Were we that PRI poor that the possible loss would impact the opponents own RPI?

The only other thought here would be that UD has the issue about scheduling them. We do not want to play some of these teams in the NBE because ..... we would lose... but we play the SEC and we scheduled those teams because we know we will win? Not sure we are that arrogant!

I personally have a problem playing Miami of OH just because of what their RPI and regional focus does not add to our resume. Outside of Oxford and Dayton, who cares about the outcome? But how does that square with teams such as Villanova, Marquette, St John's? There is no direct link to a regional conflict, their RPI typically is at least as good as ours. Yes I am saying the value of playing Miami is very low no matter the outcome. So is the reason we do not want to play those NBE teams is that there is no value? Or is that how those NBE teams value US?

Maybe you've hit the nail on the head. In their own self interest they have decided, not collectively, but nevertheless in group think, that the value of playing us is NOT of any value. If that is the case, then the solution is found. Lamenting about it is a waste of time. It is what it is. We move on. We also reserve that same privilege in not scheduling certain local teams that we deem have no value to US no matter the outcome.

I'm fine with that too, and I don't think the U should bend and twist to be 'acceptable' to the NBE. We move on and play who ever we want and whoever wants to play us. At the end of the day that is ALL we can control .... and be happy in what we have.
NJ, I do see "what is".....lots of schools incl those in the NBE won't schedule a UD series...and this predates the formation of the NBE. And, I don't "believe anything in my mind that I don't see". It is precisely because I fail to see "accepted" explanations that I am on the other side of the fence from Priders who explain the matter along the lines of a conspiracy of some sort.

I have never bought into conspiracies. Usually they arise when reasonable, simple analysis of the facts is not palatable.

I contend that the most sensible explanation for the fact that NBE schools will not schedule series with UD is the same as the reason tOSU won't, or UC. They see little if any upside and meaningful downside as regards RPI, NCAAs, etc. Those are the same reasons we fail to schedule many opponents that would be only to happy for a UD series.

Of course, there are always exceptions. Seton Hall did agree to a series recently. And Depaul didn't even at a time when DU was among (s) the dredges of college BB. And very long-time rival X apparently has little interest.

I'm sure there are many sensible reasons. But I do not consider "sensible" the notion that we can't schedule series with NBE schools because of some sort of conspiracy among the schools to blackball Dayton. Indeed, if there was any persuasive evidence to that effect the UD administration would know it and would have stopped any effort to schedule NBE teams quite some time ago. Doesn't that make sense?
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:16 PM
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UAC I have taken the same position. Not a conspiracy, but there may be some group think involved. At the end of my post I stated that you may have hit on the real issue ... and I agree ... these teams see no value in playing with UD. As we in turn apply the same thinking in our scheduling.

I do not think it is related to an RPI thing however, as we haven't been RPI poor. But there is some visible intangible (?) thing going on here ... that can't be easily explained. If not our RPI then what? Afraid of losing? Impact of their RPI not so much unless we are at an RPI in the mid to lower of the pack. And we are not. Play at their place? Then at ours?

So if their value analysis is based on RPI it doesn't ring true. If based on something else what would that be? Don't pretend to know ... so I don't think about it except when the issue comes up here ...

I don't believe that Chris is stating a conspiracy either. But I do understand his line of thinking that we are not valued by them. So we move on as will I on this topic ....
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:06 PM
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I do believe X, UC, OSU, UK, and the BE schools deliberately won't play UD. The BE wants to keep the A10 below them IMO. UD does well with their scheduling, I just want fewer buy games to get to an even 15/15 split, worst case scenario, there are other good non-BCS clubs that will play you home and home, there are probably already enough BCS clubs that will play you to get to 15/15.

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Old 07-09-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles View Post
I'm much more concerned about the new AD getting along with Archie than hiring some outside guy who may have ties to some conference that doesn't want UD.

I'm not suggesting Archie is hard to get along with, but I would feel more comfortable if it was someone Archie trusted and would like to work for, like Wabler

Archie is much more important to me than the NBE.
I say let Archie handpick the new guy or gal!

Isn't he due another raise and extension?

The financials of the entire department rest on King Archie might as well make him as comfortable,happy and rich as possible. He's already shown he has an insane drive that no monetary items or otherwise will keep him from achieving his goals. Long live Archie!!!
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:04 PM
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WHAT!!!!

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
The financials of the entire department rest on King Archie

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  #82  
Old 07-09-2015, 03:14 PM
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Holy Moly!

Someone red pipped me for the views I expressed re NBE scheduling. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but, I wish those that so strongly object would at least sign their beef!
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  #83  
Old 07-09-2015, 03:31 PM
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Like the Supreme Court, I think there are probably nine votes that count for the new AD. A group of big donors has a vote, Dan Curran has a vote, the Board of Trustees has two votes, and Archie has five votes.
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Old 07-09-2015, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
Like the Supreme Court, I think there are probably nine votes that count for the new AD. A group of big donors has a vote, Dan Curran has a vote, the Board of Trustees has two votes, and Archie has five votes.
we can only hope.......
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Old 07-10-2015, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Where is he from?? Dayton? or somewhere in PA?




Is he a keeper? or being a Big10 grad, is he going to be looking for greener pastures in 5-10 years??


I know nothing about Sullivan except what I've read here but I know Dave Harper who, as I've stated, is my choice. He's an Alter grad, left UD once, gained valuable experience (and perspective) at UM, came back and will be here for the rest of his life if offered the AD's position.

Tell me more about Sullivan to convince me he's a lifer at UD.
Actually Neil is from Mars. Mars, Pa, that is, located about 20 miles north of Pittsburgh. I was somewhat reluctant to point that out given many priders hatred of Pgh sports teams, but then I realized that Archie has been forgiven this transgression so maybe Neil will be forgiven too.

My wife has coached girls hoops for closing in on 30 years so we have been connected to the high school sports scene for a long time. Neither of us can remember any athlete who played harder, worked harder or got more from their abilities than Neil. He was mature beyond his years even then. My wife's team made the playoffs during Neils senior year and he asked my wife if he could sit next to her on the bench for the playoff games so he could learn more about how a coach thinks and reacts. How many high schoolers would do that?

I would also say that loyalty is one of Neils strong characteristics. He kind of reminds me of Archie in that regard. Whether that translates into being a lifer at UD I cannot say. My youngest son graduated from UD 3 years ago and I would run into Neil from time to time while attending sporting events during my visits, so I do know that he loves it there. I also know that he would be a great hire.
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  #86  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum View Post
Neil Sullivan was a teammate of my son in high school and a pupil of my wife. Believe me when I tell you that that no one will work harder or be more driven to succeed than Neil. If I remember correctly he completed his undergraduate degree at PSU in 3 years. If I had a vote, he'd get mine...despite his age.

Maybe the Board is stepping in and saying it's not really Curran's choice in his current, lame-duck role...

“The University of Dayton has formed a search committee and retained a consultant to assist with the search for a vice president and director of athletics to replace Tim Wabler, who is retiring after a stellar 22-year career at the University.”
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Elwood View Post
Maybe the Board is stepping in and saying it's not really Curran's choice in his current, lame-duck role...

“The University of Dayton has formed a search committee and retained a consultant to assist with the search for a vice president and director of athletics to replace Tim Wabler, who is retiring after a stellar 22-year career at the University.”
Maybe just that old thought of "let's see who is better on the outside then the choices we have on the inside", but they still may chose the insider.
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  #88  
Old 07-14-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Elwood View Post
Maybe the Board is stepping in and saying it's not really Curran's choice in his current, lame-duck role...

“The University of Dayton has formed a search committee and retained a consultant to assist with the search for a vice president and director of athletics to replace Tim Wabler, who is retiring after a stellar 22-year career at the University.”
I do think you're probably right, Bill. If left up to Curran alone, I believe Dave Harper would have already been named the new AD.
IMO, we have two excellent internal candidates. Being that it's a tough choice, I think it's best to have a real search and let the best candidate emerge from the formal process. If a gold star outsider candidate emerges from the search that's okay too.
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  #89  
Old 08-07-2015, 12:23 PM
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It's been very quiet on this front....September 1st isn't far away. Any rumblings?
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
It's been very quiet on this front....September 1st isn't far away. Any rumblings?
Let's try this again, any rumblings?
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Let's try this again, any rumblings?
Hmmmmm.....

Just got an e-mail from friend Brian Tracy letting me know he was leaving UD for Appalachian State. New Director of Athletic Development, Josh Postorino?

Says something but not sure what! Time will tell!

PS BRIAN TRACY-----thank you for everything you did for the University of Dayton and UD Athletics while you were at 300 College Park! Good luck in your new position at Appalachian State and in all future endeavors!

Last edited by College B-Ball Fan; 08-24-2015 at 08:18 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #92  
Old 08-24-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan View Post
Hmmmmm.....

Just got an e-mail from friend Brian Tracy letting me know he was leaving UD for Appalachian State. New Director of Athletic Development, Josh Postorino?

Says something but not sure what! Time will tell!

PS BRIAN TRACY-----thank you for everything you did for the University of Dayton and UD Athletics while you were at 300 College Park! Good luck in your new position at Appalachian State and in all future endeavors!
Brian was an excellent fellow to deal with. With a few more years of experience, I think he would have been considered for the AD job. He is a very diligent and serious professional.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:27 PM
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But why?

Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Brian was an excellent fellow to deal with. With a few more years of experience, I think he would have been considered for the AD job. He is a very diligent and serious professional.
Why is he leaving UD? Is ASU a better opportunity?
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:32 PM
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Brian is a class act who will be missed. He was great to work with and really loved his job. Good luck Brian.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:29 AM
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Why is he leaving UD? Is ASU a better opportunity?
Sounds like a promotion and that he has a connection with the AD at App St from his time working at the Southern Conference and then at Elon.

http://www.goblueridge.net/sports/29...-associate-ad-
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:25 AM
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Jim Paxson
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  #98  
Old 08-25-2015, 02:39 PM
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I second Mr. Paxson.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 View Post
Jim Paxson
I would love to see Jim Paxson in that role.
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:25 PM
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[QUOTE=shapanud;416592]Sounds like a promotion and that he has a connection with the AD at App St from his time working at the Southern Conference and then at Elon.


UD's loss; ASU's gain. Brian was always great to work with.
Sounds like he may want to be an AD some day and the ASU gig will give him sport
management duties, which he did not have with the Flyers.
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