Email from Neil Sullivan to Season Ticketholders

[TommyGola]

Dear Season Ticket Holder,



As we approach the first anniversary of college student-athletes receiving compensation from third parties (but not from their home institution) for use of their name, image and likeness (known as “NIL”), I write to you with an update on its impact on UD basketball. While we continue to support many of these changes to appropriately modernize rules and provide fundamental fairness for student-athletes, the unintended consequences of an unregulated market are evident.



As intended, compensation received by student-athletes for NIL activities was to represent a genuine payment for use of their NIL, not simply a talent acquisition fee disguised as “NIL.” However, within some institutions, that is exactly what has happened.



Despite the chaos in the market, we see opportunity in the disruption. Our student-athletes have earned legitimate income, with authentic work and appearance fees. We have never asked or encouraged, directly or indirectly, any third party to be involved in the recruiting process. Boosters, fans and NIL agents have not been asked to communicate (e.g., call, text, direct message) with a recruit, their family or others affiliated with a prospect. The NIL deals have been legitimate and for work performed. International student-athletes remain limited in their ability to receive certain forms of NIL compensation by the terms of their visas and immigration status, but the international space continues to evolve.



Please make no mistake, NIL is now one of the primary influences in the recruiting and retention process. Current and future players are observing how our community supports NIL, just as they evaluate our coaching, facilities, fan support, academic excellence, graduation rates, and overall quality of campus life. NIL is now an important part of the Dayton basketball experience.



If done correctly with the long-term in mind, the testimony and experience of our current student-athletes will successfully shape our ability to retain and recruit future players. The tangible evidence of NIL accelerates an already distinguished, 360-degree student experience at UD. We continue to focus on long-term, sustainable relationships, not fleeting transactions of talent acquisition fees.



While opportunities are near limitless, many have asked about specific pathways to express NIL support for our student-athletes. It is imperative we all do our part supporting the new realities of college sports with reasonable aggressiveness, or we will fall behind in a hypercompetitive environment. We must continue to make the Flyers a destination program for athletes across the country and the world, but do it in a way that is true to our values as a community and a program. We must be excellent in all areas that influence organizational success, and NIL is now one of them.



Please find below some primary pathways:



Engage in direct endorsement, marketing and support: Directly compensate for use of the name, image and/or likeness of specific players or small group’s players in advertisements or promotions for products and services or personal appearances for your family, organization or business. This is the most direct and one-on-one opportunity. You can also purchase merchandise featuring the name, image and likeness of your favorite players or support a Cameo message.



You can contact the student directly through their social media platform, through the directory here, or feel free to contact Krystal Warren within UD Athletics at kwarren2@udayton.edu.



For many, it may be easier to engage with a firm that can help in securing and negotiating terms related to name, image and likeness activities. The most active individual locally is Matt Farrell, local business executive (matt@14fiftypartners.com). Matt not only has a personal relationship with many of our athletes, but he also understands the NIL landscape, and, having been a former men’s basketball staff member and a member of my athletic department staff, he knows our program.



Support special events and experiences: G3 / ProCampsU, is an event management and sports marketing company that specializes in partnering with collegiate student-athletes to deliver memorable brand experiences, camps, event appearances, brand activations, and related experiences for athletes. In 2021, the players hosted a Fan Fest. The players are considering other team-based events that will need your support if announced. In addition, many players are hosting or participating in youth camps that need your support.



Align support with community service and charitable cause marketing: Perhaps you do not own a company or manage an organization, but you would like to support the players making a difference and impact in the community. This concept uses the name, image, and likeness of University of Dayton student-athletes to help promote mission-based or charitable organizations for community work that you have a passion for and align with your philanthropic interests. For example, you can compensate players to attend functions or celebrations for any number of charitable organizations or work with underprivileged children.



As always, we thank you for your loyal support of Dayton athletics and know that you expect first-class, competitive programs that represent our University, our city and our community in the best possible way. Together, that is what we expect to continue delivering.



Go Flyers!


Neil Sullivan

Vice President and Director of Athletics

Key contacts:

· Krystal Warren (UD Athletics) - kwarren2@udayton.edu

· Matt Farrell – matt@14fiftypartners.com

· G3 Marketing – Greg Lazaroff glazaroff@g3marketing.com



Key links:

https://daytonflyers.com/sports/2021...-likeness.aspx

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/2/8...ng-action.aspx

[Swampy Meadows]

Really smart on Neil's part to get out in front of the NIL landscape and manage expectations on all sides of the equation.

[CT Flyer]

I love that he understands the need for it and wants it to work while staying true to the school's and program's (and I'm sure his personal) values and principles.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Dear Season Ticket Holder, As we approach the first anniversary of college student-athletes receiving compensation from third parties (but not from their home institution) for use of their name, image and likeness (known as “NIL”), I write to you with an update on its impact on UD basketball. While we continue to support many of these changes to appropriately modernize rules and provide fundamental fairness for student-athletes, the unintended consequences of an unregulated market are evident. As intended, compensation received by student-athletes for NIL activities was to represent a genuine payment for use of their NIL, not simply a talent acquisition fee disguised as “NIL.” However, within some institutions, that is exactly what has happened. Despite the chaos in the market, we see opportunity in the disruption. Our student-athletes have earned legitimate income, with authentic work and appearance fees. We have never asked or encouraged, directly or indirectly, any third party to be involved in the recruiting process. Boosters, fans and NIL agents have not been asked to communicate (e.g., call, text, direct message) with a recruit, their family or others affiliated with a prospect. The NIL deals have been legitimate and for work performed. International student-athletes remain limited in their ability to receive certain forms of NIL compensation by the terms of their visas and immigration status, but the international space continues to evolve. Please make no mistake, NIL is now one of the primary influences in the recruiting and retention process. Current and future players are observing how our community supports NIL, just as they evaluate our coaching, facilities, fan support, academic excellence, graduation rates, and overall quality of campus life. NIL is now an important part of the Dayton basketball experience. If done correctly with the long-term in mind, the testimony and experience of our current student-athletes will successfully shape our ability to retain and recruit future players. The tangible evidence of NIL accelerates an already distinguished, 360-degree student experience at UD. We continue to focus on long-term, sustainable relationships, not fleeting transactions of talent acquisition fees. While opportunities are near limitless, many have asked about specific pathways to express NIL support for our student-athletes. It is imperative we all do our part supporting the new realities of college sports with reasonable aggressiveness, or we will fall behind in a hypercompetitive environment. We must continue to make the Flyers a destination program for athletes across the country and the world, but do it in a way that is true to our values as a community and a program. We must be excellent in all areas that influence organizational success, and NIL is now one of them. Please find below some primary pathways: Engage in direct endorsement, marketing and support: Directly compensate for use of the name, image and/or likeness of specific players or small group’s players in advertisements or promotions for products and services or personal appearances for your family, organization or business. This is the most direct and one-on-one opportunity. You can also purchase merchandise featuring the name, image and likeness of your favorite players or support a Cameo message. You can contact the student directly through their social media platform, through the directory here, or feel free to contact Krystal Warren within UD Athletics at kwarren2@udayton.edu. For many, it may be easier to engage with a firm that can help in securing and negotiating terms related to name, image and likeness activities. The most active individual locally is Matt Farrell, local business executive (matt@14fiftypartners.com). Matt not only has a personal relationship with many of our athletes, but he also understands the NIL landscape, and, having been a former men’s basketball staff member and a member of my athletic department staff, he knows our program. Support special events and experiences: G3 / ProCampsU, is an event management and sports marketing company that specializes in partnering with collegiate student-athletes to deliver memorable brand experiences, camps, event appearances, brand activations, and related experiences for athletes. In 2021, the players hosted a Fan Fest. The players are considering other team-based events that will need your support if announced. In addition, many players are hosting or participating in youth camps that need your support. Align support with community service and charitable cause marketing: Perhaps you do not own a company or manage an organization, but you would like to support the players making a difference and impact in the community. This concept uses the name, image, and likeness of University of Dayton student-athletes to help promote mission-based or charitable organizations for community work that you have a passion for and align with your philanthropic interests. For example, you can compensate players to attend functions or celebrations for any number of charitable organizations or work with underprivileged children. As always, we thank you for your loyal support of Dayton athletics and know that you expect first-class, competitive programs that represent our University, our city and our community in the best possible way. Together, that is what we expect to continue delivering. Go Flyers! Neil Sullivan Vice President and Director of Athletics Key contacts: · Krystal Warren (UD Athletics) - kwarren2@udayton.edu · Matt Farrell – matt@14fiftypartners.com · G3 Marketing – Greg Lazaroff glazaroff@g3marketing.com Key links: https://daytonflyers.com/sports/2021...-likeness.aspx https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/2/8...ng-action.aspx

Let's keep those donations coming! Have to keep Richard and Zimi!

[Jack D]

Rolfmao

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Let's keep those donations coming! Have to keep Richard and Zimi!

Maybe not, but I’d suggest you want to keep, say, DaRon and Mike or nab a few quality players via transfer portal or prep recruiting. Sullivan is trying to make the best of an NIL situation that is virtually unregulated. Mock the letter if you want, but its purpose is spot-on and necessary.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I think he nails it with the letter. I’m impressed that he took the space and time to reach out to small business owners as well. Every little drop counts. I’ll consider it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Gem]

I don't know what's not to like. They are navigating the NIL terrain without being sleezy. That is what I would expect them to do.

[Ready Action]

I got five on it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoffeeCan]

Wow... I am joking! Of course I know what NIL is... and I also know those two aint getting any...

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by The Fly Maybe not, but I’d suggest you want to keep, say, DaRon and Mike or nab a few quality players via transfer portal or prep recruiting. Sullivan is trying to make the best of an NIL situation that is virtually unregulated. Mock the letter if you want, but its purpose is spot-on and necessary.

So over the next 3-5 years or so, what's our annual team salary going to look like? I'm guessing we are looking at +- $2.5MM per year.

[Smitty10]

This is why college basketball is going to be ruined.

To me, what Neil is saying is "NIL should be used for what it's meant for and that is to pay the athletes for legitimate work they are doing using their name, image and likeness and not as a tool to recruit. Wink, wink. But I urge you(who happens to be a 3rd party) to find paths to pay these players for their hard work so that it will help us recruit them and/or keep them."

I don't blame him, but it's the contradiction that it's not to be used as pay for playing the game but pay for using their name, image and likeness. All these folks who have come on here with "The Flyers and other colleges make tons of money on these kids playing for them, they should get paid for it, so NIL is a good and fair thing" (by the way, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this opinion a form of Marxism?). Yet we're told NIL should not be used to get players to play for you but for use of their name, image and likeness.

This is the early stages, so I feel I'm taking in the last of the game I grew up to love the most. College basketball where the bigger schools had the advantages but throwing money for players to play wasn't one of them (well, as far as the written rules went anyway). It was great because the underdog had a chance and often did slay Goliath. I don't understand the love for teams from the P6 as P6 fans don't understand my love for a team outside the P6 because we look at it from 2 completely different perspectives. Being the underdog fan is fun.

But being the underdog fan is only fun when you have a chance. And this is ruining the chances. Maybe UD basketball survives and thrives, but it still means I'm less likely to see the St. Peters type teams do what they did last year and that ruins it for me.

Anyway the cost to root for your Flyers, and for them to have a chance at some kind of NCAA glory has gone up, and the odds of those chances have gone down. I'm still hanging on as a fan because the full force hasn't hit the sport yet, but it's coming fast and my interest will wane.

[CoffeeCan]

I was at dinner with some Flyer alums last night.
The point was made that the NIL is fine, kids should get paid.
And the transfer portal is fine, the kids should get to go where they can exceed.

The issue is the NIL combined with the portal.
If you declare for the draft and hire an agent, you are done at the NCAA level.
Same should be for NIL. If you take NIL money and are not in your 4th year of eligibility, you cannot transfer without sitting out a year.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I was at dinner with some Flyer alums last night. The point was made that the NIL is fine, kids should get paid. And the transfer portal is fine, the kids should get to go where they can exceed. The issue is the NIL combined with the portal. If you declare for the draft and hire an agent, you are done at the NCAA level. Same should be for NIL. If you take NIL money and are not in your 4th year of eligibility, you cannot transfer without sitting out a year.

I hate to pour water on a good discussion but that pesky US Supreme Court and its thoughts on all kinds of other people profiting from the name, image and likeness of a kid who isn't allowed to profit from it himself/herself is sort of the beginning and the end of the discussion, "the Law of the Land" if you will.

The portal, they could theoretically do something about but like so many things, it becomes almost impossible to take something away from someone once it is has been given. I don't think you could tie the transfer rules to NIL, since they don't really have anything to do with one another.

I agree it is not good for college basketball but it is what it is.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I hate to pour water on a good discussion but that pesky US Supreme Court and its thoughts on all kinds of other people profiting from the name, image and likeness of a kid who isn't allowed to profit from it himself/herself is sort of the beginning and the end of the discussion, "the Law of the Land" if you will. The portal, they could theoretically do something about but like so many things, it becomes almost impossible to take something away from someone once it is has been given. I don't think you could tie the transfer rules to NIL, since they don't really have anything to do with one another. I agree it is not good for college basketball but it is what it is.

Serious question. Not to counter your point but because I honestly don't know.

Why is it not legal for the NCAA to make a rule that the schools can control the NIL of their players in exchange for a scholarship but they are allowed to make a rule that it can't be used as a direct recruiting tool by the schools directly? Isn't making such rules a way of stifling the competition for and therefore the pay of players?

[CoffeeCan]

If the NCAA can make a rule that prevents you from playing after hiring an agent, they should also be able to make a similar rule that prevents you from playing (for a year) if you take NIL money.

[NJFlyr71]

Right now there aren't too many rules (or at least none that I have read about) concerning the portal, so you could have a mass transfer from University A to college Z and no questions asked.

Take the exodus of some of the UD WBB team when Green left ... to follow her with IIRC not sitting for a year.

In pro sports there are rules so no team gets a major advantage over the rest of the field from one year to the next. Right now for example in the NFL there is a blackout rule about discussing coaching job offers within a certain period. I don't think there is anything like that at all in college sports.

Right now anything goes and UD needs to understand the lay of the land and make adjustments as best they can to remain competitive in the new landscape of college sports.

Or the future will be dim.

[Smitty10]

I don't know why this just occurred to me, but the situation of Kaleb Washington popped in my mind. How sickening it must be for him that he wasn't born a year later. If 2022-2023 would've been his Freshman year, how much NIL money would he have been handed before he ever hit the court(not necessarily from Dayton)? Instead, he's a highly rated recruit coming out a year earlier before NIL came into effect and now that his issues on and off the court have been exposed, he's probably worthless as far as NIL is concerned.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan If the NCAA can make a rule that prevents you from playing after hiring an agent, they should also be able to make a similar rule that prevents you from playing (for a year) if you take NIL money.

I think were an athlete to challenge the agent representation piece, they'd like win presently.

The belief is that everything is trending toward the players becoming employees of the university (and there's a case before a federal court right now weighing just that).

There's a seismic change in the societal view of athletes (and the billions of dollars college sports bring in), and this change has made the NCAA irrelevant. Most of what they enforced in the past likely wouldn't hold water in a court room today. Thus, you see them doing next to nothing while the an earthquake rocks college football and basketball.

Their hands are tied, and they have no recourse. It's why the NCAA hired a respected former governor to replace Mark Emmert, because lobbying and behind-the-scenes hi-jinx are really the only hope of keeping the NCAA as an entity relevant.

Here's a great article from last month if you want to get a sense of where the law is regarding NCAA athletes: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/s...-athletes.html

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Serious question. Not to counter your point but because I honestly don't know. Why is it not legal for the NCAA to make a rule that the schools can control the NIL of their players in exchange for a scholarship but they are allowed to make a rule that it can't be used as a direct recruiting tool by the schools directly? Isn't making such rules a way of stifling the competition for and therefore the pay of players?

That case, (the O'Bannons case), was centered around the fact that EA Sports was using players images and likenesses in their video games, they were paying schools licensing fees for using their names, uniforms, facsimiles of home courts, etc... and everyone was making money except the players who are really the drivers of the revenue. What the Supreme Court said is that if I, as unskilled normal person, can go on the open and free market and get a car dealership to pay me to do commercials, why should a kid who actually has some talent, name recognition, an appeal in the market not be able to do the same thing just because he/she is an amateur athlete, (that is my take on the holding anyway). If you think about the girl from LSU, she is sort of the perfect example. Meaning no offense to her, I am guessing her prowess as a gymnast is not the most important part of her marketability but yet the market says, her name image and likeness is worth $1.5M per year.

So the NIL piece of it really has nothing to do with the the schools and in fact, the NCAA has said the schools can't have any direct involvement in it, (and from that instant in time, schools have tried to get their toes right up against that line). For the school to control or restrict the NIL would be the same as the school telling me I can only work so many hours or be paid a certain amount at Wendy's.

By referring to it as NIL, I think people get the impression that it is a construct of the NCAA or some framework they created. What it actually is is just shorthand (Name Image Likeness), for what the Court has said the NCAA (and its member institutions) cannot meddle in. So the restriction or rule making regarding what happens on the open market is what is not allowed.

The rule that NIL cannot be used as a direct recruiting tool is an NCAA rule and is consistent with the ruling I think. The member institutions of the NCAA voluntarily agree to be bound by the NCAA's rules as a condition of membership. The interesting question is whether or not we will get to the point where the big boys just say "screw it, let's just pay these kids directly, we don't need the NCAA to give us a trophy, we can completely cut them out, form our own organization and split all that TV and marketing money between ourselves rather than sharing it with everyone and giving the NCAA a cut.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 By referring to it as NIL, I think people get the impression that it is a construct of the NCAA or some framework they created. What it actually is is just shorthand (Name Image Likeness), for what the Court has said the NCAA (and its member institutions) cannot meddle in. So the restriction or rule making regarding what happens on the open market is what is not allowed.

Good stuff, but I think this part is a misconception. NIL is a construct of the NCAA in that it is a response to a need to pay players. Rather than offer athletes a slice of the real pie (i.e., the TV money), they cut players loose to make money on their own. In doing so, they gave up any right to police student-athletes. It's also, technically, a NCAA construct, which they've done some saber-rattling about enforcing, but everybody knows they don't have a leg to stand on.

Just historically bad and short-sighted governance from the NCAA. It was likely a no-win situation, but in dragging their feet on compensating players (and then taking the cheapest, shadiest route possible), they sealed their own irrelevance. Good riddance.

Originally Posted by Flyers98 The interesting question is whether or not we will get to the point where the big boys just say "screw it, let's just pay these kids directly, we don't need the NCAA to give us a trophy, we can completely cut them out, form our own organization and split all that TV and marketing money between ourselves rather than sharing it with everyone and giving the NCAA a cut.

This is going to happen, if not imminently, certainly within the next decade.

Gene Smith, the OSU AD, has even proposed reorganizing college football under the college football playoffs. Basketball would be wise to start their own 68-team tournament under new IP and cut themselves free of all the unnecessary NCAA BS.


Anyway, say what you will about Neil's email, but every AD has to do this now. He's signaling which UD-affiliated NIL are in the good graces of the UD administration. It's kinda silly, because us folks providing nickels and dimes ain't moving the NIL needle. We need big money donors to throw down, but if UD wants to stay relevant, they need to get their NIL operation up-and-running.

[udflyer88]

Lets not fool ourselves the so called NiL has been going on for yrs. its now just acknowledged and made more legit. Any doubters just go watch 'the scheme' on various media platform. That show details the investigation and life of Christian Dawkins and his interactions w various college ncaa bball personnel. Also tend to think that that investigation got too close to the $ scheme and was shut down by someone.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by udflyer88 Lets not fool ourselves the so called NiL has been going on for yrs. its now just acknowledged and made more legit. Any doubters just go watch 'the scheme' on various media platform. That show details the investigation and life of Christian Dawkins and his interactions w various college ncaa bball personnel. Also tend to think that that investigation got too close to the $ scheme and was shut down by someone.

And Bill Self holding the trophy as the 2022 NCAA champion, in direct defiance of the NCAA, feels like the historical moment the NCAA was finished.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by flyer016 Good stuff, but I think this part is a misconception. NIL is a construct of the NCAA in that it is a response to a need to pay players. Rather than offer athletes a slice of the real pie (i.e., the TV money), they cut players loose to make money on their own. In doing so, they gave up any right to police student-athletes. It's also, technically, a NCAA construct, which they've done some saber-rattling about enforcing, but everybody knows they don't have a leg to stand on. Just historically bad and short-sighted governance from the NCAA. It was likely a no-win situation, but in dragging their feet on compensating players (and then taking the cheapest, shadiest route possible), they sealed their own irrelevance. Good riddance. This is going to happen, if not imminently, certainly within the next decade. Gene Smith, the OSU AD, has even proposed reorganizing college football under the college football playoffs. Basketball would be wise to start their own 68-team tournament under new IP and cut themselves free of all the unnecessary NCAA BS. Anyway, say what you will about Neil's email, but every AD has to do this now. He's signaling which UD-affiliated NIL are in the good graces of the UD administration. It's kinda silly, because us folks providing nickels and dimes ain't moving the NIL needle. We need big money donors to throw down, but if UD wants to stay relevant, they need to get their NIL operation up-and-running.

Agreed on Neil, if UD digs its heals in and says "we're not going to do it, we think its wrong" Before too long I predict we will be looking into how the Division II tourney works.

I think alot of the peril still resides in football but I agree with you 100% that basketball schools better be anticipating and ready to react.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Right now for example in the NFL there is a blackout rule about discussing coaching job offers within a certain period. I don't think there is anything like that at all in college sports.

I have never heard of such a rule. As far as I know, NFL teams can hire and fire 365 days a year, there is no blackout period.

[CoffeeCan]

Dear Season Ticket Holder,

Pardon our dust as we prepare for an even more exciting season of Flyer basketball.

[shocka43]

Dear Neil,

You better take out a loan.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 I have never heard of such a rule. As far as I know, NFL teams can hire and fire 365 days a year, there is no blackout period.

There are some blackout periods. I think when a team is in the playoffs, there are some times you can't interview. Teams can also block interviews under certain circumstances, so it's not quite the wild wild west.

[bcross]

Not a good look coming from Neil. Time to adjust or find someone who will.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...OPP2I6V5STVHE/

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by bcross Not a good look coming from Neil. Time to adjust or find someone who will. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...OPP2I6V5STVHE/

I read the article, I'm a little non-plussed about it. I think things will change quite a bit over the next year or two, in that people will see NIL is mostly throwing money away and that after the extra COVID year is gone for all players, it will change the way rosters work again.

Not saying NIL isn't important in these days, but I don't want to be in a UMiami situation, and I don't want to be in the business of "buying" players as some of these teams are. Get me the hungry kids who can earn some cash based on their play any day, over the transfer who wants a bunch of money to sign somewhere and hasn't earned it in any capacity.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by bcross Not a good look coming from Neil. Time to adjust or find someone who will. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...OPP2I6V5STVHE/

Exactly what isn’t a good look?
Posted via Mobile Device

[cj]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Exactly what isn’t a good look? Posted via Mobile Device

I interpreted his comment as he wants someone that cheats.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by cj I interpreted his comment as he wants someone that cheats.

Gotcha. That’s the only way that statement seems to make sense.

Integrity matters and if it means UD can never again achieve any relevant success in NCAA basketball I’d be fine. I don’t think that’s the case and actually continue to think the opposite. The team and family concept will be highly desired by plenty and UD has all the other things to be successful if that’s true.

They can’t cheat well enough to compete in that arena anyway so why try?
Posted via Mobile Device

[TA111]

Originally Posted by cj I interpreted his comment as he wants someone that cheats.

As did I. Unreal.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by bcross Not a good look coming from Neil. Time to adjust or find someone who will. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...OPP2I6V5STVHE/

Brave talk coming from a keyboard commando. I'm backing Neil.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan There are some blackout periods. I think when a team is in the playoffs, there are some times you can't interview. Teams can also block interviews under certain circumstances, so it's not quite the wild wild west.

I issue this correction not to be mean, but to save you from future embarrassment. The expression is simply "wild West." Not "wild wild West."

"The Wild Wild West" was a TV show from the 60s. "Wild Wild West" is a horrible Will Smith movie from the late 90s.

[CoffeeCan]

Not sure what the point of Jablo's article was... did we really learn anything new?

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Not sure what the point of Jablo's article was... did we really learn anything new?

Sound like 2 options for Deuce is all that exist
Posted via Mobile Device

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo I issue this correction not to be mean, but to save you from future embarrassment. The expression is simply "wild West." Not "wild wild West." "The Wild Wild West" was a TV show from the 60s. "Wild Wild West" is a horrible Will Smith movie from the late 90s.

Whiny Whiny West referred to David West constantly crying to officials while at _avier.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CoffeeCan]

Zero reason... ZERO... why we cannot win the NIL game as far as the A10 is concerned.

The NIL should be a BLESSING to Neil and CAG when it comes to competing against VCU, SLU, etc.

Either we have the best and biggest fan base or we don't... which is it?

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Zero reason... ZERO... why we cannot win the NIL game as far as the A10 is concerned. The NIL should be a BLESSING to Neil and CAG when it comes to competing against VCU, SLU, etc. Either we have the best and biggest fan base or we don't... which is it?

Agreed. I think UD has the capability to be competitive against Butler, Oregon State, etc. lower end power conference schools

People I think get confused with NIL and think of it as UD getting in a bidding war with Kentucky. UD is recruiting, with rare exceptions, from a completely different pool of players.

Kendal Pollard's recruitment came down to UD and Rhode Island. That's the type of battle UD needs to win in NIL

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Exactly what isn’t a good look? Posted via Mobile Device

Having the AD making excuses/complaining instead embracing the changing landscape of college should be concerning for anyone that wants this program to succeed. Not being able to make sense of the NIL when it is his job to do so is something else. Being slow to adapt has plagued this program for decades and we seem firmly entrenched in the way it's always been done.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by cj I interpreted his comment as he wants someone that cheats.

I want someone to embrace the NIL/Transfer Portal as it is the new reality in college basketball. We're not going back to the way things were no matter how bad some may want to.

[TA111]

Originally Posted by bcross Having the AD making excuses/complaining instead embracing the changing landscape of college should be concerning for anyone that wants this program to succeed. Not being able to make sense of the NIL when it is his job to do so is something else. Being slow to adapt has plagued this program for decades and we seem firmly entrenched in the way it's always been done.

You should have stopped digging that hole. He understands the NIL just fine. He’s just not going to promote cheating.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by TA111 You should have stopped digging that hole. He understands the NIL just fine. He’s just not going to promote cheating.

You should have read the article.

[older than u]

Think "Hoosiers"

[Kool-ade Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Agreed. I think UD has the capability to be competitive against Butler, Oregon State, etc. lower end power conference schools People I think get confused with NIL and think of it as UD getting in a bidding war with Kentucky. UD is recruiting, with rare exceptions, from a completely different pool of players. Kendal Pollard's recruitment came down to UD and Rhode Island. That's the type of battle UD needs to win in NIL

You are spot on OSU. The Dayton Community has a huge role to play. The picture in the paper of DaRon and Zimi at a school today illustrates what the TEAM brings to the community. If I understand correctly, my guess is their appearance was probably through Dayton 6th. Additionally, Enoch Cheeks made it clear he chose Dayton due to al you 13,000 screaming faithful on gameday. The Dayton Community will win the day.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Their appearance was sponsored by CareSource, not Dayton 6th.

And Neil's "complaint", as I read it, was the blatant tampering with players not in the portal, not NIL.

[Chris R]

Describing something is different than excusing or endorsing something.

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan Their appearance was sponsored by CareSource, not Dayton 6th. And Neil's "complaint", as I read it, was the blatant tampering with players not in the portal, not NIL.

While it may be a legit complaint this was 100% obviously going to happen and be the norm as soon as it was announced. There's just no possible way to police it. I even have a post on it how it will inevitably change college basketball for the worse 2 years ago. Anyone who didn't anticipate where we are today wasn't thinking critically.

Obviously this is all about Daron and you have big programs offering him who knows what. If he leaves I understand, if he stays that's great and proves he's a great person but may not be in his best interest.

[shocka43]

VCU, SLU, StB.... are all under the same rules as we are. The same exact playing field...explanation or excuse... it doesn't matter. There is ZERO reason UD shouldn't be winning conference championships regularly.

The playing field and rules aren't different for the rest of the A10. NIL and portal or otherwise.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TA111]

https://twitter.com/DavidEickholt/st...1_c10&ref_url=
Iowa coach with similar sentiments. It’s disgraceful what some are doing.

[TA111]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan Their appearance was sponsored by CareSource, not Dayton 6th. And Neil's "complaint", as I read it, was the blatant tampering with players not in the portal, not NIL.

Yes, what Neil was describing is what many coaches are now describing as distasteful blatant violations. Teams going after kids not in the portal.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by shwag33 While it may be a legit complaint this was 100% obviously going to happen and be the norm as soon as it was announced. There's just no possible way to police it. I even have a post on it how it will inevitably change college basketball for the worse 2 years ago. Anyone who didn't anticipate where we are today wasn't thinking critically. Obviously this is all about Daron and you have big programs offering him who knows what. If he leaves I understand, if he stays that's great and proves he's a great person but may not be in his best interest.

It can and will ultimately be policed. The NCAA is just licking its wounds from so many legal losses. Its leadership has been lacking for decades. The members will force change. It’s difficult to predict what that will look like, but at the minimum there will be anti-tampering provisions.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Furio]

Florida Atlantic coach Dusty May said middlemen were poaching his
players while the tournament was going on.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/...r/70058958007/

[TommyGola]

This can be described as a "well intended portal plan gone awry!" Poaching players who are not on the portal will only lead to a free-for-all. What were they thinking? In business, we call this a "moral hazard."

[Bucketnight]

The NCAA has been the ultimate ivory tower. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the portal or NIL, the fact that changes were coming were easily seen for several years before they occurred. How could very clear guidelines with established punishments not be set?

With the portal, it is relatively simple. Actively reaching out to another school's players will result in a 2 scholarship reduction for 2 years and the player will not be eligible at that school. Suspension of the offending organization that make the offer. Then just escalate the punishment based upon number of occurrences. (Insert Cleveland State joke here). If a school is caught reaching out to 2 or 3 players, the impact should be enough to send a message to them and serve as a warning to everyone.

That's just an example that took all of 5 seconds. I assume having a year to discuss could have led to something better vetted. But something should have been in place beyond "hey, don't do it".

This wasn't hard to see coming.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

The NCAA doesn’t just sit in the Ivory Tower and command obedience. When it doesn’t get its way, it also pouts, which is what it’s done about NIL. It has taken the position that everyone else can deal with it since it didn’t ask for it. It’s like a petulant child. Regarding the portal, it just waves it’s arms as if it shouldn’t make rules since they just get sued for it (and lose). Ultimately, there will be rules. It’s going to require a lot of fresh blood, but change will happen.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Bucketnight The NCAA has been the ultimate ivory tower. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the portal or NIL, the fact that changes were coming were easily seen for several years before they occurred. How could very clear guidelines with established punishments not be set? With the portal, it is relatively simple. Actively reaching out to another school's players will result in a 2 scholarship reduction for 2 years and the player will not be eligible at that school. Suspension of the offending organization that make the offer. Then just escalate the punishment based upon number of occurrences. (Insert Cleveland State joke here). If a school is caught reaching out to 2 or 3 players, the impact should be enough to send a message to them and serve as a warning to everyone. That's just an example that took all of 5 seconds. I assume having a year to discuss could have led to something better vetted. But something should have been in place beyond "hey, don't do it". This wasn't hard to see coming.

If and until coaches are banned from coaching anywhere at any level for at least a year and banned for life for multiple offenses at multiple schools rules will have too little impact toward controlling and stoping this garbage.

I for one am glad Neil and others are openly speaking out about it with examples. If enough schools / coaches do this it will only help expedite the changes - especially if enough are P5. Seeing it as a weakness and remaining silent would make him part of the problem.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by cj I interpreted his comment as he wants someone that cheats.

I'll let BCross defend himself. Regardless if you use this as a platform to attack Neil & AG, or to attack another UDPride member, the relevant question is:

What can AG & Neil do to ensure that a player being recruited that was not in the portal, is incentivized enough to stay, and to further understand that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side?

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Jeff What can AG & Neil do to ensure that a player being recruited that was not in the portal, is incentivized enough to stay, and to further understand that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side?

Camara is leaving based on talent and didn't need the portal to do it. Mike had potential and didn't leave based on his resume, he did in fact leave because of the portal opportunity.

No other player is a loss. If Holmes leaves he will fit into an opportunity hole or a portal hole. No player is leaving bacause of NIL money because they are so talented to earn it.

The roster depletion this season and results of the last 6 years have nothing to do with the portal or NIL. Guys with resumes aren't leaving except for Camara chasing the pros. Anything else is noise in terms of what UDs results should be.

The bottom line... guys would have been incentivized to stay if they made it to the tourney and met expectations.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Jeff I'll let BCross defend himself. Regardless if you use this as a platform to attack Neil & AG, or to attack another UDPride member, the relevant question is: What can AG & Neil do to ensure that a player being recruited that was not in the portal, is incentivized enough to stay, and to further understand that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side?

This is not just a UD issue. He comes off very whiney. This is the new landscape. Adapt.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Camara is leaving based on talent and didn't need the portal to do it. Mike had potential and didn't leave based on his resume, he did in fact leave because of the portal opportunity. No other player is a loss. If Holmes leaves he will fit into an opportunity hole or a portal hole. No player is leaving bacause of NIL money because they are so talented to earn it. The roster depletion this season and results of the last 6 years have nothing to do with the portal or NIL. Guys with resumes aren't leaving except for Camara chasing the pros. Anything else is noise in terms of what UDs results should be. The bottom line... guys would have been incentivized to stay if they made it to the tourney and met expectations.

Agree with your specific points Shocka. My comment is more towards Neil complaining about the changes in landscape.

Event + Reaction = outcome

Neil & AG (or you can phrase the program in total) own the reaction.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Gotcha. That’s the only way that statement seems to make sense. Integrity matters and if it means UD can never again achieve any relevant success in NCAA basketball I’d be fine. I don’t think that’s the case and actually continue to think the opposite. The team and family concept will be highly desired by plenty and UD has all the other things to be successful if that’s true. They can’t cheat well enough to compete in that arena anyway so why try? Posted via Mobile Device

https://twitter.com/DavidPJablonski/...40066063405058

Fortunately, Neils goals remain higher than yours. Also, he states the facts without throwing the "other guys are cheating" card. Have to give him props for that.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff https://twitter.com/DavidPJablonski/...40066063405058 Fortunately, Neils goals remain higher than yours. Also, he states the facts without throwing the "other guys are cheating" card. Have to give him props for that.

My point was integrity trumps win at all cost all day long. Neil doesn't want to meet other actual objectives he has for AG by cheating - period. He kind of did throw the other guys are cheating card though. That's much of what the article was about.