Dane Goodwin

[Avid Flyer]

Just got call from bro. Seems Dane decommitted from tOSU. Would love to have him but think that ship sailed. No ships anyway. Thought he was all in on the new coach.

Confirmed by cleveland.com and Danes father. Now TOSU has no 2018 commits, father said it was right thing to do t I let new staff choose their own recruits.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/06...s_from_oh.html

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Just got call from bro. Seems Dane decommitted from tOSU. Would love to have him but think that ship sailed. No ships anyway. Thought he was all in on the new coach.

We don't have any scholarships for 2018?

[N2663R]

Never say never . . . .

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by longtimefan We don't have any scholarships for 2018?

We will have at least one with Baby D graduating right?

[C-time]

Originally Posted by longtimefan We don't have any scholarships for 2018?

It appears Avid is confused or drinking while posting. UD has 1 ship for '18 and if CAG wants more he can always encourage some people to transfer.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by C-time It appears Avid is confused or drinking while posting. UD has 1 ship for '18 and if CAG wants more he can always encourage some people to transfer.

Stay classy c-time.

We are all aware that any coach can always encourage players to move on....it just hasn't been the flyer way.

[Avid Flyer]

BTW my understanding is we have more offers out than ships available as of this moment. So no I'm neither confus d d nor been drinking.

Been lots of speculation as to whom might depart on this board.

[UDGutter2]

I believe almost every college coach offers more players than they have scholarships. Some continue to leave offers out there even when they have commitments for every scholarship.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Stay classy c-time. We are all aware that any coach can always encourage players to move on....it just hasn't been the flyer way.

Ralph Hill says "Hi".

It actually is a timing thing with new coaches. He can sit a player who's use to more minutes and then advise him that he won't get much playing time in the future either. He doesn't do that with his own recruits. He doesn't do it with the incoming freshman that he had to sell to keep their commitments. He doesn't do it to his PG that quit, ironed things out and came back and he probably doesn't do it to a player that would need to redshirt. And he's not going to do it to the two best juniors from last season. Can't do it to our only senior as his eligibility will be over by then anyway. That leaves two players he most likely would do it to and I'm guessing it's not last season's only freshman.

Not saying he will do it, but if he does, I'm guessing that we know who it will be done to.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer BTW my understanding is we have more offers out than ships available as of this moment. So no I'm neither confused d nor been drinking. Been lots of speculation as to whom might depart on this board.

I believe you were confused when you said we have no ships available for 2018. We have (at least) one. We will always have more offers out than we have scholarships. That is no surprise.

[Avid Flyer]

Well excuse me everyone, while I do realize we technically have ONE ship we have over extended our ship offers and if one of the first ones offered take the ship then we won't have a ship for Dane Goodwin.

Dane is late to the game so to speak, and not likely a serious candidate for UD since he wasn't recruited by Archie. Not sure how he feels about that but its an issue only he knows.
We have some very serious offers out there for recruits that we are interested in, first come first take. May be wrong but believe one of the offers will be taken shortly leaving NO ships available for DANE.

Then comes the speculation of whom will leave the team to make room for additional recruits should AG want to go that way. It isn't something UD has done very often. We did have a couple players that didn't see many minutes and it was suggested they transfer to a D2 school where they would see pt. Now was that initiated by the player or coach, don't know but in one case it was mutual as the player wanted the opportunity to play.

I was merely expressing that one of the recruits would commit leaving none for Dane. Sorry I ruffled so many feathers, it was just my assessment and opinion of Dane's decommitment form tOSU. Guess I should have been more precise but with all the talk on this and flyerhoops about over recruiting I thought it was a given.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Well excuse me everyone, while I do realize we technically have ONE ship we have over extended our ship offers and if one of the first ones offered take the ship then we won't have a ship for Dane Goodwin. Dane is late to the game so to speak, and not likely a serious candidate for UD since he wasn't recruited by Archie. Not sure how he feels about that but its an issue only he knows. We have some very serious offers out there for recruits that we are interested in, first come first take. May be wrong but believe one of the offers will be taken shortly leaving NO ships available for DANE. Then comes the speculation of whom will leave the team to make room for additional recruits should AG want to go that way. It isn't something UD has done very often. We did have a couple players that didn't see many minutes and it was suggested they transfer to a D2 school where they would see pt. Now was that initiated by the player or coach, don't know but in one case it was mutual as the player wanted the opportunity to play. I was merely expressing that one of the recruits would commit leaving none for Dane. Sorry I ruffled so many feathers, it was just my assessment and opinion of Dane's decommitment form tOSU. Guess I should have been more precise but with all the talk on this and flyerhoops about over recruiting I thought it was a given.

Dane was late to the game which means he needs to hurry up and choose if he in fact thinks UD might be for him. And there is a connection here as AG played 3 seasons with his father. I have no idea if there's a relationship there still, but there might be.

[Avid Flyer]

I have no inside info but my feeling is that the lone ship is going to be grabbed here anyday now leaving Dane in the dust. I don't get the feeling that Dane is as interested in UD as we would like to believe. Some sons don't want to play in the shadows of their father. Of course I hope I am wrong, but I want each of the recruits we have offered, and don't see that happening.

Could be wrong but I believe Dane will take some visits before making up his mind. What is sorta confusing is it was reported Dane was excited with the tOSU hire, go figure.

[bcross]

CAG will find room for a Top 100 recruit and son of a former teammate if he wants to be here. The scholarship issue is a non-starter.

Things also work themselves out naturally. The rising junior class was over-signed by one. Then Robinson/Scott got kicked off the team and the Detwon Rogers mystery that may never be solved.

[San Diego Flyer]

When a new coach arrives, the psychological change is more dramatic and taxing than some fans realize. Anthony may not have to force anyone out because both the coach and the players will feel the change and gravity may ultimately create an opening. Instead of Miller's encouraging words to a marginal returning player (because Arch has committed to the kid and his family that he will develop the player to the max) there instead can be tension. The tension that comes with the new coach's demeanor that basically says, "show me how you think you are going to help us this year". Crosby may initially have felt that tension. Sam and Ryan may feel it now. Who knows?

That psychological reversal can be subtle enough to eventually create openings without notice. The coach is a fool if he doesn't target multiple offers to hedge his bets. We don't know where Sam and Ryan fit into that kind of scenario as an example, now that they are in rehab and could be out for an extended time.

Somewhat along the same thoughts as Smitty10 described as relates to minutes, but significantly more subtle with similar results. They may not even get to the point where playing minutes are discussed.

[N2663R]

Regardless of the scholarship issues or head coach issues, I seem to recall that Dane verbaled tOSU as a freshman in high school, so there probably was not a lot of recruiting going on. Since UD and tOSU both have new coaches in the same time frame, we are starting with a clean sheet of paper. I also seem to recall that his backup choice was ND. So who knows . . .

[TerryK_67]

My memory is pretty fuzzy, but if I recall correctly, Damon Goodwin was inducted into the UD hall of fame in 2010. I seem to recall him saying that was the first time he had been back in UD arena since he played there. Seems sort of odd since he was head coach at Capital University in Columbus just 60 miles away. I think there was some subliminal buzz at that time that implied he had never really gotten over the U firing Don Donoher. That may be the root of his son not really being too interested in UD… All pure conjecture on my part. Also have no clue what affect Damon's relationship with Anthony Grant will have on the situation....
Since 2010, I seem to recall UD playing Capital in a preseason game. And there was a lot of buzz, prayers, and concern with his fight against leukemia. Seems like a great guy to me; and I wish him and his son well…… wherever their future takes them.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[m21eagle45]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...OWzsEXzC2oi0J/

Dayton is not in the mix for Dane per DDN

[NJFlyr71]

I heard on the radio that Dane had been a tOSU BB fan since childhood ... so the question could of been UD was never in the cards and now upon reflection maybe (but a long shot) that could change ...

But with some of the other potential offers he seems to be getting ... I'd think he is looking elsewhere.

OK with me. Hope he does well where ever ...

[jack72]

I doubt he is looking at Dayton. This is a kid who wants the bigger school and conference. Not surprised he is having second thoughts about the current dumpster fire at OSU, and seeing what better offers are out there.

[flybye]

As good as Archie and his staff where...they dropped the ball On Dane.. swing and a miss.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by flybye As good as Archie and his staff where...they dropped the ball On Dane.. swing and a miss.

Interest is a two way street. Maybe they tried and he didn't even call them back? Just because his father went here doesn't mean we had a good shot at him. That is just being assumed by many on here.

[flybye]

They didn't reach out to him. Was never asked to visit and never heard anything from Archie..

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 I think there was some subliminal buzz at that time that implied he had never really gotten over the U firing Don Donoher. That may be the root of his son not really being too interested in UD… All pure conjecture on my part.

That very well could be. Mike Sylvester made no bones about it--his son Matt went to OSU and never considered UD because Sly was still ****ed about Donoher getting the ziggy.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by flybye They didn't reach out to him. Was never asked to visit and never heard anything from Archie..

Again, that is just one side of the story. We do not know what really happened.

[Avid Flyer]

Amazing got a red rep for saying no ships, I explained my meaning as a recruit would be grabbing it before Dane would get a shot, was just my opinion, geesh.

[flyerfan4life]

Dane isn't coming to Dayton. Moving on....

[bcross]

Originally Posted by flybye As good as Archie and his staff where...they dropped the ball On Dane.. swing and a miss.

And if we play out this hypothetical, he decommits nearly 3 years later when Archie goes to Indiana.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by jack72 I doubt he is looking at Dayton. This is a kid who wants the bigger school and conference. Not surprised he is having second thoughts about the current dumpster fire at OSU, and seeing what better offers are out there.

Nah, Ohio State has turned it around with the new coach (and you see how he already flipped his biggest recruit from Butler). They'll be fine and I suspect that if Holtmann offers Goodwin, he'll jump back on board.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows That very well could be. Mike Sylvester made no bones about it--his son Matt went to OSU and never considered UD because Sly was still ****ed about Donoher getting the ziggy.

Mike must have missed those 13-15, 13-18, and 12-17 seasons. I can only imagine this board if a coach today had those records, or went 10 years between NCAA Tournament appearances (1974-1984).

[jack72]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 Nah, Ohio State has turned it around with the new coach (and you see how he already flipped his biggest recruit from Butler). They'll be fine and I suspect that if Holtmann offers Goodwin, he'll jump back on board.

As they say, proof is in the pudding. Their pudding the last couple of years, and the way they handled Matta and 3 decommits did not taste very good.
OSU "hopes" they have turned it around with the new coach.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by jack72 As they say, proof is in the pudding. Their pudding the last couple of years, and the way they handled Matta and 3 decommits did not taste very good. OSU "hopes" they have turned it around with the new coach.

It's probably wishful thinking to believe they haven't already begun that process. Again, the "proof is in the pudding" with what Holtmann has been able to do so far. The decommits were Matta's guys, there's no indication that Holtmann wants to give all of them scholarships in the same way talk on this thread has been about Anthony Grant finding creative ways to fill his roster how he wants it.

[OSU Flyer]

Ohio State has two guards on the roster past this season. Dane, Cohill or any guard is gonna have a chance to play major minutes early there

[SeasonTicketFan]

I saw Dane play this year and I was very, very impressed. Very talented basketball player.

I'd love to see the day when UD could be in real contention for top D1 recruits such as Luke Kenard and Dane Goodwin. The program is still not there yet.

[San Diego Flyer]

Luke Kennard was the 12th pick in the NBA draft this week after only two years at Duke.

Dane Goodwin is still trying to get into a good college program.

I think Dane, or his equivalent, is a fair target for AG and UD. But I don't see us ever stealing a Duke level player who is early first round NBA material.

2 cents.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer Dane Goodwin is still trying to get into a good college program.

Not sure what you mean by "still trying to get into a good college program." He committed to Ohio State as a freshman in high school, and his top three are now Notre Dame, Villanova, and Ohio State. I would say those three are good college programs. "Still trying to get into a good college program" sounds like no good college programs want him.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Not sure what you mean by "still trying to get into a good college program." He committed to Ohio State as a freshman in high school, and his top three are now Notre Dame, Villanova, and Ohio State. I would say those three are good college programs. "Still trying to get into a good college program" sounds like no good college programs want him.

Didn't take it that way at all. What people post and what people perceive the poster meant is not always the same.

[jack72]

Dane is a very good four star player, and notch above what we typically get. It is not fair to compare him to Kennard, who was a five star and national player of the year.

[jack72]

Also not sure that Dane has a girlfriend as hot as Savannah Chrisley!

[Chris R]

Goodwin and Ahrens are at the UD team camp.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Not sure what you mean by "still trying to get into a good college program." He committed to Ohio State as a freshman in high school, and his top three are now Notre Dame, Villanova, and Ohio State. I would say those three are good college programs. "Still trying to get into a good college program" sounds like no good college programs want him.

Well, I thought after I posted it that someone would take offense. I don't consider tOSU an elite basketball program today. Villanova has been good lately--they had their ugly stretch that Jay seems to have brought them out of. Notre Dame has had their moments lately. Why hasn't he bit on their solicitations? I think it's because he is still fishing for an elite program like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, or UNC. All of which are better than those offers he has in hand. It appears none of those elite programs have offered. What does that say? It tells me they might have better prospects in mind, and also he may be waiting for them to come up snake eyes on those better prospects. I do believe there is a waiting game going on between Dane and some bigger fish.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Chris R Goodwin and Ahrens are at the UD team camp.

I reffed the team camp and came away impressed with Dane. He looks like his dad and shoots high off his ear/head like Larry Bird...jumps well and plays hard.

I know Damon well and had 5 minutes between games to talk. If would have been rude to ask anything about UD so I just asked how he (Damon) was enjoying the re-recruitment process and he just said "It sucks".

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by rollo I reffed the team camp and came away impressed with Dane. He looks like his dad and shoots high off his ear/head like Larry Bird...jumps well and plays hard. I know Damon well and had 5 minutes between games to talk. If would have been rude to ask anything about UD so I just asked how he (Damon) was enjoying the re-recruitment process and he just said "It sucks".

Well, there is one way to eliminate the drudgery of "re-recruitment"...commit to be a Flyer!

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer Well, I thought after I posted it that someone would take offense. I don't consider tOSU an elite basketball program today. Villanova has been good lately--they had their ugly stretch that Jay seems to have brought them out of. Notre Dame has had their moments lately. Why hasn't he bit on their solicitations? I think it's because he is still fishing for an elite program like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, or UNC. All of which are better than those offers he has in hand. It appears none of those elite programs have offered. What does that say? It tells me they might have better prospects in mind, and also he may be waiting for them to come up snake eyes on those better prospects. I do believe there is a waiting game going on between Dane and some bigger fish.

If you had said "still trying to get into an elite college program" (instead of "good") it would have made sense, since he already has offers from "good" programs.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Villanova won the NCAA championship in 2016. What does it take to be considered elite?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by rollo I reffed the team camp and came away impressed with Dane. He looks like his dad and shoots high off his ear/head like Larry Bird...jumps well and plays hard. I know Damon well and had 5 minutes between games to talk. If would have been rude to ask anything about UD so I just asked how he (Damon) was enjoying the re-recruitment process and he just said "It sucks".

Jumps well, plays hard, similarities to Larry Bird? Forget being rude, a true King would've had the commitment to the Flyers and not a post like this.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan Villanova won the NCAA championship in 2016. What does it take to be considered elite?

They have made it to the Elite 8 three times in the last 30 years. Texas Western, Chicago Loyola, Marquette, UNLV have all won a National Championship as well.

If UD had won the National Championship against UCLA, would we be an elite program today?

Like I said, Jay has them on the right track, which is 10 whistle stops behind the bullet trains.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan If you had said "still trying to get into an elite college program" (instead of "good") it would have made sense, since he already has offers from "good" programs.

tomayto, tomahto.

[OSU Flyer]

blue blood might be the better term than elite

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo I reffed the team camp...

What is team camp? How long is it? Is it at UD? Does every NCAA team do this?

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by ud2 What is team camp? How long is it? Is it at UD? Does every NCAA team do this?

High schools invited,it's on the weekend,and yes on campus and yes alot of colleges do this

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ud2 What is team camp? How long is it? Is it at UD? Does every NCAA team do this?

High School teams go to camps as a team. Normally a few days. Yes. And most do. It is an easy money maker.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 High schools invited,it's on the weekend,and yes on campus and yes alot of colleges do this

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 High School teams go to camps as a team. Normally a few days. Yes. And most do. It is an easy money maker.

Ok, so this was Dane's high school team, Upper Arlington High School, at the camp?

[C-time]

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, so this was Dane's high school team, Upper Arlington High School, at the camp?

Yes. Here's some video from former UD assistant Wade O'Connor from the game where UA(Goodwin) was playing Versailles(Ahrens)

https://twitter.com/wadeoconnor01/st...46413216227328

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by C-time Yes. Here's some video from former UD assistant Wade O'Connor from the game where UA(Goodwin) was playing Versailles(Ahrens) https://twitter.com/wadeoconnor01/st...46413216227328

I guess it would have been too over-the-top to bring in the pep band, cheerleaders, etc. just so they could stop down the game to celebrate the greatness of each and every Ahrens and Goodwin bucket? Maybe hoist their uniforms to the rafters at halftime... Could come off as a little desperate I suppose.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan Villanova won the NCAA championship in 2016. What does it take to be considered elite?

I guess that national championship buys them some cover, but people some to not realize or forget that 2016 is the only time in the past 8 seasons that 'Nova has made it past the Round of 32 into the Sweet 16.

In contrast, over the same time period, Duke has 5 Sweet 16 appearances (2 titles), Kentucky has 6 Sweet 16 appearances (1 title), North Carolina has 4 Sweet 16 appearances (1 title), and Kansas has 5 Sweet 16 appearances (0 titles).

Based on those numbers, I wouldn't put Villanova in the same tier as those traditional elite programs. They have a title, but they have not had the type of consistency that the top programs have had.

[sheg]

Saying someone isn't elite because they're not UK, KU, UNC, or Duke is ludicrous. Nova has been in the top 5 for 95% of the last three seasons and has a title to boot. They're not "big four" elite, but they've been as close as you can get without being in.

[San Diego Flyer]

They simply don't have the pedigree that top layer has. They have done well lately as I said.
Three Elite 8's in 30 years, same as Xavier. Hogwash. And speaking of Hogs, Arkansas has 6 Final Fours and a National Championship. And nothing in the last 20 years. I wouldn't include them either. The Elite programs have done it in the past AND done it in the present. It's a short list.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Flyers98]

In the last 20 years they have 15 NCAA tourney appearances, 5 sweet 16s and 3 elite 8s. Throw in the 2016 national championship and I call that elite. I would also add that UD was elite in the 50s and 60s but is not now. Recent history matters when talking about present standing. Are there teams with gaudier numbers? Sure, but that doesn't disqualify Nova.

Personally, I would trade 5 elite 8s for one championship, (assuming you are still making the tourney 15 out of 20 years).

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 In the last 20 years they have 15 NCAA tourney appearances, 5 sweet 16s and 3 elite 8s. Throw in the 2016 national championship and I call that elite. I would also add that UD was elite in the 50s and 60s but is not now. Recent history matters when talking about present standing. Are there teams with gaudier numbers? Sure, but that doesn't disqualify Nova. Personally, I would trade 5 elite 8s for one championship, (assuming you are still making the tourney 15 out of 20 years).

I don't think the word "elite" means "if you slice the data right, you can kinda be comparable to the best teams." You either is or your ain't. So if you have to squint to make Villanova look like KU, UNC, Duke, and UK, then there is a second tier that includes Villanova and a top tier that does not.

[CE80]

I am trying decide which is more amusing - Flyer fans discussing whether Villanova is an elite program or the Off-Topic Gibberish discussion of healthcare, the poor, condoms and teenagers having sex.

[San Diego Flyer]

It's the time of year when you can throw out a hook with nothing on it, and predictably snag some fan who can be fired up over nothing.

[MNFats]

Originally Posted by CE80 I am trying decide which is more amusing - Flyer fans discussing whether Villanova is an elite program or the Off-Topic Gibberish discussion of healthcare, the poor, condoms and teenagers having sex.

Apparently I've been reading the wrong forum...

I'll solve the Nova argument so we can all go discuss condoms and such.

Is Nova on the same level as UK, KU, UNC, Duke?

No. They are not. They aren't far off, but they are not on that level. There is a group of teams above them which, by definition, makes them not elite.

Alright - time to talk rubbers!

[Avid Flyer]

I think talking Nova and rubbers in the same topic is stretching it....ones more pliable than the bother

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by sheg Saying someone isn't elite because they're not UK, KU, UNC, or Duke is ludicrous. Nova has been in the top 5 for 95% of the last three seasons and has a title to boot. They're not "big four" elite, but they've been as close as you can get without being in.

Whatever you want to call the top tier, doesn't bother me, but I can tell you that Villanova is not quite on that level. They don't have the recent track record or all-time success to make such a claim. However they are right there in the next tier with anywhere from 8-10 other programs, and there's no shame in that. But the idea here is that if Goodwin or any other high school player is holding out for an offer from one of the "Big Four," it's understandable, because there is a difference that even casual fans of the game can identify.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 Whatever you want to call the top tier, doesn't bother me, but I can tell you that Villanova is not quite on that level. They don't have the recent track record or all-time success to make such a claim. However they are right there in the next tier with anywhere from 8-10 other programs, and there's no shame in that. But the idea here is that if Goodwin or any other high school player is holding out for an offer from one of the "Big Four," it's understandable, because there is a difference that even casual fans of the game can identify.

What difference does it make(addressed to all, not you)? Elite over time is a moving target. I'm sure that Christian Laettner would've like to go to an elite basketball program back in his day. However, he didn't. It became elite with his help.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 What difference does it make(addressed to all, not you)? Elite over time is a moving target. I'm sure that Christian Laettner would've like to go to an elite basketball program back in his day. However, he didn't. It became elite with his help.

Good point. He probably wasn't aware of Duke's 3 trips to the Championship, and 6 Final Fours, and 9 Sweet Sixteens before he got there.

Duke was well on it's way before Laettner suited up, but granted CL was central to the Duke elevation to another level. Coach K was ACC and National Coach of the Year 2 years before Laettner got there.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 What difference does it make(addressed to all, not you)? Elite over time is a moving target.

True on both counts. Given UD's self proclaimed stat of winning the most games during the 50's and 60's, would you consider us an elite program during that time period???

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer Good point. He probably wasn't aware of Duke's 3 trips to the Championship, and 6 Final Fours, and 9 Sweet Sixteens before he got there. Duke was well on it's way before Laettner suited up, but granted CL was central to the Duke elevation to another level. Coach K was ACC and National Coach of the Year 2 years before Laettner got there.

Well, doesn't Nova have a better resume than that(pre-CL days) at this point in time? They have 2 national championships and 3 trips to the championship at this point in time? Prior to CL, Duke wasn't in the same tier as KY, UCLA, Indiana, NC, Louisville etc. They were pretty much the Butler or Gonzaga of today.

After 2014 I'm guessing you would of looked at UConn as being elite. If so, do you still look at them that way?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by N2663R True on both counts. Given UD's self proclaimed stat of winning the most games during the 50's and 60's, would you consider us an elite program during that time period???

That's a tough question as to who was elite back then as I wasn't around to experience it(well, the 50s anyway, the 60s? I'd say no as you had one giant(UCLA) and OSU and Cinci pretty much were the top of Ohio and the region). Not sure if basketball lent itself to have teams considered elite back in the 50s. I'm thinking, based on the times and the technology back then, it was the coach that that made the team's great rather than the whole program and perception of the program. That's still some what true today as most of the elite programs in recent times have been only elite under the same coach. Remember, I said most, not all. KY and NC were elite under different coaches. Indiana and Duke under one coach. But due to lots of factors, it's going to be less a moving target today than it was back then when there's a coaching change.

I think the older and more popular and inclusive a sport becomes, the more it lends itself to have some of it's elements or members considered elite. What makes a Duke elite today? Is it just wins and championships or do you have to drill down further to look at it's whole marketing package including the facilities and perks available to the players which in turn plays a part in that winning and will tend to continue to do so. Back in the 50s I think students tended to stay closer to home for many reasons so college basketball programs were at the mercy of the talent around their area. Maybe it was the region itself that developed the talent and not the actual college reaping the benefits that was considered elite back in the 50s.

[San Diego Flyer]

I put UConn way ahead of the elite pack. We are talking about the women, right?

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 What makes a Duke elite today?

Jay Bilas, Dick Vitale, and cable television---to a lesser extent, a gaudy record and HOF Coach.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by CE80 I am trying decide which is more amusing - Flyer fans discussing whether Villanova is an elite program or the Off-Topic Gibberish discussion of healthcare, the poor, condoms and teenagers having sex.

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[ClevelandFlyer05]

Goodwin is taking an official visit with Ohio State this week per multiple Ohio State sports websites.