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  #1  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:21 PM
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Very early ESPN bracketology

http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?i...on=1&year=2017

From April 10, 2017.



http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?i...on=1&year=2017

From April 4, 2017, seems like it is basically the same as the one from April 10.



Rhode Island 11

St. Bonaventure 11, playing in the First Four

Just 2 A10 teams, a down year for the A10 I guess.


SMC 4



Indiana 10

Alabama 10

Last edited by ud2; 04-21-2017 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?i...on=1&year=2017

From April 10, 2017.



http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?i...on=1&year=2017

From April 4, 2017, seems like it is basically the same as the one from April 10.



Rhode Island 11

St. Bonaventure 11, playing in the First Four

Just 2 A10 teams, a down year for the A10 I guess.


SMC 4



Indiana 10

Alabama 10
Do we play Alabama? I am not too up to date on the future schedule. AG has been gone for some time now. Not trying to start anything, just curious why they are included with SMC and IU. Did I miss something?

Last edited by m21eagle45; 04-21-2017 at 05:12 PM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:02 PM
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Given our adventures in the off season, not being included in the projected field seems reasonable.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Do we play Alabama? I am not too up to date on the future schedule. AG has been gone for some time now. Not trying to start anything, just curious why they are included with SMC and IU. Did I miss something?
You didn't miss anything. We don't play Alabama. He is simply trying to show that the new coach can win at Alabama whereas AG couldn't. Trying to show AG was a bad hire. We will probably be informed of every Alabama win for the next four years.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:35 AM
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How Avery Johnson does at Alabama is IMO absolutely relevant to UD now that AG is our hc.

Some of you folks need to toughen up a bit and quit getting so butthurt over the slightest negative comments.

Not everything that gets posted on this board has to be sunshine and rainbows all the time.

AG did not do well enough at Alabama and was fired. Some of you folks need to own that, rather than making up so many excuses in order to try to explain away his time at Alabama: Nick Saban diverted resources away from the basketball program, Alabama is a football school, injuries, suspensions, players transferring out, etc.

Every coach and team has to deal with at least a little bit of injuries, suspensions, players transferring out, etc. Archie had to deal with well more than his fair share of that stuff, and he rose above it all.

Good coaches figure out how to deal with all of that stuff and rise above it.

Hopefully, AG has figured out what went wrong at Alabama, and hopefully he will do better at UD.

Finally, if my posts annoy you so much, then just put me on your ignore list, rather than belly aching so much about me.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:03 AM
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Not butthurt, just confused. Most (all?) of the rest of us will gain no deeper understanding or satisfaction of Dayton's basketball program based on the results of another unrelated program. If they have a great season, good for them. If they don't, I won't care.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by big jordan View Post
Not butthurt, just confused. Most (all?) of the rest of us will gain no deeper understanding or satisfaction of Dayton's basketball program based on the results of another unrelated program. If they have a great season, good for them. If they don't, I won't care.
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I will judge AG by what he does here. I really don't care what other teams he coached 5-10 years ago accomplish. Totally irrelevant.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:38 AM
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Just a few of thoughts...

Middle Tennessee lost their three best players and Western Kentucky has a top ten recruiting class coming in. He's insane if he doesn't think WKU is the best team in CUSA. They are probably bubble relevant this year, and depending on how their retention goes they may be nationally relevant the next year. I just hope they're able to play the right teams OOC.

He's got College of Charleston on the #14 line. I think CofC will end up inside the bubble. Earl Grant is an amazing coach. In fact, he's another "Grant" that UD could have looked at. He walked into a complete mess (and that is perhaps an understatement) and has completely turned it around. They had a big year last year and return virtually everyone. This is probably his last year there, so I hope they are able to make something of it. I just hope they're able to play the right teams OOC.

The Horizon League should be fun this year with NKU returning four starters and their entire bench after finishing the season 11-1 (or something like that) and winning the HL Tournament. Oakland has a lot of good players back as well. As for everyone else, meh, but those two are legit and could flirt with the bubble. I just hope they're able to play the right teams OOC.

As far as Alabama goes, they add the #4 overall recruiting class to a team that was a solid NIT team. I don't think a #10 seed is all that outrageous. BTW, Anthony Grant earned a #9 seed in the one year he made the tournament, and although Bama wasn't as good as many felt it should be, they were still a lot better than they were before he got there. I think he's solid.

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Old 04-22-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Just a few of thoughts...

Middle Tennessee lost their three best players and Western Kentucky has a top ten recruiting class coming in. He's insane if he doesn't think WKU is the best team in CUSA. They are probably bubble relevant this year, and depending on how their retention goes they may be nationally relevant the next year. I just hope they're able to play the right teams OOC.
WKU managed to get into the Battle 4 Atlantis this year which should help them. Villanova, Arizona, Purdue, North Carolina State, Tennessee, Southern Methodist and Northern Iowa are the other teams playing.

They also have a game at Wisconsin which is part of a 3 game deal where the Badgers will play one game in Bowling Green. No other big games have been announced yet.

http://www.wbko.com/content/sports/T...419154034.html
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How Avery Johnson does at Alabama is IMO absolutely relevant to UD now that AG is our hc.

Some of you folks need to toughen up a bit and quit getting so butthurt over the slightest negative comments.

Not everything that gets posted on this board has to be sunshine and rainbows all the time.

AG did not do well enough at Alabama and was fired. Some of you folks need to own that, rather than making up so many excuses in order to try to explain away his time at Alabama: Nick Saban diverted resources away from the basketball program, Alabama is a football school, injuries, suspensions, players transferring out, etc.

Every coach and team has to deal with at least a little bit of injuries, suspensions, players transferring out, etc. Archie had to deal with well more than his fair share of that stuff, and he rose above it all.

Good coaches figure out how to deal with all of that stuff and rise above it.

Hopefully, AG has figured out what went wrong at Alabama, and hopefully he will do better at UD.

Finally, if my posts annoy you so much, then just put me on your ignore list, rather than belly aching so much about me.
I think Alabama was paying Anthony Grant between $2 and $3 million. Alabama could easily afford to pay a coach a lot more than that, and decided that they wanted to. They wanted Gregg Marshall, and apparently had reached out to him via a search committee, and figured they could get him for just under $5 million. The problem was that in order to get Gregg Marshall, they had to get rid of Anthony Grant.

Well, you know the rest. Marshall opted to stay at Wichita, and they went with Avery Johnson instead, who to his credit immediately did something that Anthony Grant never really did (at least not as well), and that's throw himself into the world of AAU, which to be fair he was in a position to do since he, yunno, played in the NBA and coached a team that made the NBA finals.

Anthony Grant didn't do great at Alabama, but he didn't do bad either. He made the postseason every year but once, and although he only made the tournament once, there was at least one other time where they were on pace to make the NCAAs, but then collapsed at the end due to injuries, lost 5 out of 7, and missed the field. He had three years where he won over twenty games. That's not bad. It's not going to get you $5 million dollars and make you one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball, which is what Alabama decided they wanted, but it's still far from bad. He's a good coach, and he's certainly capable of winning at Dayton at the rate that they have been. Perhaps not in his first year, but he should be pretty good after that.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Anthony Grant didn't do great at Alabama, but he didn't do bad either. He made the postseason every year but once, and although he only made the tournament once, there was at least one other time where they were on pace to make the NCAAs, but then collapsed at the end due to injuries, lost 5 out of 7, and missed the field. He had three years where he won over twenty games. That's not bad. It's not going to get you $5 million dollars and make you one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball, which is what Alabama decided they wanted, but it's still far from bad. He's a good coach, and he's certainly capable of winning at Dayton at the rate that they have been. Perhaps not in his first year, but he should be pretty good after that.
Some will compare Avery to AG as if it's apples-to-apples because it's the same school. That might be the case, but not necessarily so.

My suspicion has been that Alabama decided to increase their commitment to basketball after getting rid of AG. Brew's comment about trying to get Marshall seems to confirm that notion.

My hunch is that Avery's staff makes considerably more than Grant's staff did as part of that increased commitment. I can't find any numbers to confirm that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Pelphrey makes as much as AG's top 2 guys combined when he was at Bama.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:35 PM
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Bama was smart to focus on football when they did, and it probably cost AG in some ways resources wise.

They now have a metric **** ton of money, and it's evident just being on campus. ( if you have a high schooler at home, take a look. LOTS of scholarship $ available there - it is high on my daughter's list). And it would not surprise me a little bit if their financial commitment to hoops has greatly increased recently.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:12 PM
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I believe Alabama's basketball budget was in the neighborhood of $8.5 million when Grant was there. That's not exactly a small amount.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:33 PM
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How much was Gottfried getting paid at Alabama? What was Gottfried's budget at Alabama?

And AG missed the NIT and NCAAT twice at Alabama...there were 2 years with no postseason.

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Old 04-23-2017, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
WKU managed to get into the Battle 4 Atlantis this year which should help them. Villanova, Arizona, Purdue, North Carolina State, Tennessee, Southern Methodist and Northern Iowa are the other teams playing.

They also have a game at Wisconsin which is part of a 3 game deal where the Badgers will play one game in Bowling Green. No other big games have been announced yet.

http://www.wbko.com/content/sports/T...419154034.html
How do you know so much about WKU? Are you a WKU fan?
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:55 PM
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Gottfried went to five straight tourneys, an elite 8 & had them ranked 1 in the country. He put at least two guys in the NBA

They has a pretty good run of success in their past
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Gottfried went to five straight tourneys, an elite 8 & had them ranked 1 in the country. He put at least two guys in the NBA

They has a pretty good run of success in their past
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His last 4 years were:

18-13 and was in the round of 64. Many thought they should not have made it that year.
20-12 Knocked out of first round of the NIT
17-16 and no postseason.
12-7 and quit 5 games into the conference season.

He went downhill fast and AG had to cleanup that mess. But the downfall happened when Bama decided to reinvest into football. Saban is hired and Bama basketball goes downhill. They didn't reinvest in basketball until Avery Johnson. I am not making excuses for AG, he didn't deliver and probably should have been fired. But that is a tough place to coach, many coaches struggle in the SEC outside of Kentucky and Florida.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
His last 4 years were:

18-13 and was in the round of 64. Many thought they should not have made it that year.
20-12 Knocked out of first round of the NIT
17-16 and no postseason.
12-7 and quit 5 games into the conference season.

He went downhill fast and AG had to cleanup that mess. But the downfall happened when Bama decided to reinvest into football. Saban is hired and Bama basketball goes downhill. They didn't reinvest in basketball until Avery Johnson. I am not making excuses for AG, he didn't deliver and probably should have been fired. But that is a tough place to coach, many coaches struggle in the SEC outside of Kentucky and Florida.
AG was making $2 or $3 million per year, with a budget of $8.5 million, how is that not investing?


Alabama had missed the NCAAT 3x in a row when Gottfried took over, but that did not stop him from making a run of 5 straight NCAAT appearances at Alabama.




David Hobbs, the hc at Alabama before Gottfried:

Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason

Alabama Crimson Tide (SEC) (1992–1998)

1992–93 Alabama 16-13 7-9 4th (West) NIT First Round
1993–94 Alabama 20–10 12–4 2nd (West) NCAA Second Round
1994–95 Alabama 23–10 10–6 3rd (West) NCAA Second Round
1995–96 Alabama 19–13 9–7 3rd (West) NIT Semifinals
1996–97 Alabama 17–14 6–10 4th (West)
1997–98 Alabama 15–16 6–10 4th (West)

Alabama: 110–76 (.591) 50–46 (.521)

Total: 110–176 (.591)



Gottfried:

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (1998–2009)

1998–99 Alabama 17–15 6–10 T–5th NIT First Round
1999–00 Alabama 13–16 6–10 4th
2000–01 Alabama 25–11 8–8 3rd NIT Runner-up
2001–02 Alabama 27–8 12–4 1st NCAA Second Round
2002–03 Alabama 17–12 7–9 4th NCAA First Round
2003–04 Alabama 20–13 8–8 T–2nd NCAA Elite Eight
2004–05 Alabama 24–8 12–4 T–1st NCAA First Round
2005–06 Alabama 18–13 10–6 2nd NCAA Second Round
2006–07 Alabama 20–12 7–9 T–3rd NIT First Round
2007–08 Alabama 17–16 5–11 5th
2008–09 Alabama 12–7 † 2–3 † 3rd

Alabama: 210–131 (.616) 83–82 (.503) †Resigned mid-season


Grant:

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (2009–2015)

2009–10 Alabama 17–15 6–10 T–4th (West)
2010–11 Alabama 25–12 12–4 1st (West) NIT Runner–up
2011–12 Alabama 21–12 9–7 5th NCAA Round of 64
2012–13 Alabama 23–13 12–6 T–2nd NIT Quarterfinals
2013–14 Alabama 13–19 7–11 T–10th
2014–15 Alabama 18–14 8–10 T–8th NIT Second Round*

Alabama: 117–85 (.579) 54–49 (.524)
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
AG was making $2 or $3 million per year, with a budget of $8.5 million, how is that not investing?


Alabama had missed the NCAAT 3x in a row when Gottfried took over, but that did not stop him from making a run of 5 straight NCAAT appearances at Alabama.




David Hobbs, the hc at Alabama before Gottfried:

Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason

Alabama Crimson Tide (SEC) (1992–1998)

1992–93 Alabama 16-13 7-9 4th (West) NIT First Round
1993–94 Alabama 20–10 12–4 2nd (West) NCAA Second Round
1994–95 Alabama 23–10 10–6 3rd (West) NCAA Second Round
1995–96 Alabama 19–13 9–7 3rd (West) NIT Semifinals
1996–97 Alabama 17–14 6–10 4th (West)
1997–98 Alabama 15–16 6–10 4th (West)

Alabama: 110–76 (.591) 50–46 (.521)

Total: 110–176 (.591)



Gottfried:

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (1998–2009)

1998–99 Alabama 17–15 6–10 T–5th NIT First Round
1999–00 Alabama 13–16 6–10 4th
2000–01 Alabama 25–11 8–8 3rd NIT Runner-up
2001–02 Alabama 27–8 12–4 1st NCAA Second Round
2002–03 Alabama 17–12 7–9 4th NCAA First Round
2003–04 Alabama 20–13 8–8 T–2nd NCAA Elite Eight
2004–05 Alabama 24–8 12–4 T–1st NCAA First Round
2005–06 Alabama 18–13 10–6 2nd NCAA Second Round
2006–07 Alabama 20–12 7–9 T–3rd NIT First Round
2007–08 Alabama 17–16 5–11 5th
2008–09 Alabama 12–7 † 2–3 † 3rd

Alabama: 210–131 (.616) 83–82 (.503) †Resigned mid-season


Grant:

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (2009–2015)

2009–10 Alabama 17–15 6–10 T–4th (West)
2010–11 Alabama 25–12 12–4 1st (West) NIT Runner–up
2011–12 Alabama 21–12 9–7 5th NCAA Round of 64
2012–13 Alabama 23–13 12–6 T–2nd NIT Quarterfinals
2013–14 Alabama 13–19 7–11 T–10th
2014–15 Alabama 18–14 8–10 T–8th NIT Second Round*

Alabama: 117–85 (.579) 54–49 (.524)
I am not disagreeing with you that AG underperformed at Alabama. But there is a direct correlation of when Saban was hired and the fall of Mark Gottfried and the Alabama basketball program. There are other resources other than just money. It's pretty clear that those resources shifted to the football team. To replace AG they looked to make a big splash hire, they missed out on Gregg Marshall, but still brought in a big name in Avery Johnson. AG was closer to 2million while he was there, and AJ is making 3million.

AGAIN I am not saying that AG did not underperform at Alabama as I said in the last post and twice in this post. But I do not that job was in as good of shape that you seem to think. His last 4 years, Gottfried clearly fell off, and it took AG 2 years to cleanup that mess. Did AG deserve to be fired? Yes, he probably did. As I said in my last post as well. But let's not act like Alabama is this great basketball job and AG turned it into Duquesne. The SEC is a tough place to coach. There are only 2 programs in the SEC that are consistent winners, Kentucky and Florida. There is a reason for that.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:01 AM
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Is there a definitive list of coaching salaries for NCAA basketball coaches? I hear all these $3 million salaries on this board all the time but earlier on this board someone posted an article that Kevin Ollie was the 10th highest paid coach in the country at $3.1 million this year. My thought is that we may overstate salaries of other schools on this board.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I am not disagreeing with you that AG underperformed at Alabama. But there is a direct correlation of when Saban was hired and the fall of Mark Gottfried and the Alabama basketball program. There are other resources other than just money. It's pretty clear that those resources shifted to the football team. To replace AG they looked to make a big splash hire, they missed out on Gregg Marshall, but still brought in a big name in Avery Johnson. AG was closer to 2million while he was there, and AJ is making 3million.

AGAIN I am not saying that AG did not underperform at Alabama as I said in the last post and twice in this post. But I do not that job was in as good of shape that you seem to think. His last 4 years, Gottfried clearly fell off, and it took AG 2 years to cleanup that mess. Did AG deserve to be fired? Yes, he probably did. As I said in my last post as well. But let's not act like Alabama is this great basketball job and AG turned it into Duquesne. The SEC is a tough place to coach. There are only 2 programs in the SEC that are consistent winners, Kentucky and Florida. There is a reason for that.
I don't think Nick Saban had anything to do with it. I think something else happened with Gottfried that kind of caused the program to crash into the mountain. At the very least a few key players (and one in particular) more or less walked out on him and they were never the same after that. I'm not one to spread rumors, so I won't, but the rumors are out there and it's my opinion that they are not unfounded. I'm sure if you search for it you'll find it. Knock yourself out.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Is there a definitive list of coaching salaries for NCAA basketball coaches? I hear all these $3 million salaries on this board all the time but earlier on this board someone posted an article that Kevin Ollie was the 10th highest paid coach in the country at $3.1 million this year. My thought is that we may overstate salaries of other schools on this board.
I know from reading the VCU boards after AG was hired, they said he went from like 400k to near 2 mil a year while at Alabama. That is why many understood him leaving.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I don't think Nick Saban had anything to do with it. I think something else happened with Gottfried that kind of caused the program to crash into the mountain. At the very least a few key players (and one in particular) more or less walked out on him and they were never the same after that. I'm not one to spread rumors, so I won't, but the rumors are out there and it's my opinion that they are not unfounded. I'm sure if you search for it you'll find it. Knock yourself out.
That very well may be true. But I do know, when Saban was hired for the 2007 season, Alabama Basketball didn't make the NCAA tournament again until Grant was coach. Also, when Saban was hired, they spent hundreds of millions on football upgrades to facilities and increased their budget by a good amount, while neglecting basketball facilities. If it is true about a player leaving, I am sure that hurt as well. But money was clearly earmarked for football after the Saban hire.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know from reading the VCU boards after AG was hired, they said he went from like 400k to near 2 mil a year while at Alabama. That is why many understood him leaving.
$2 M is much different than $3 M which someone else said on here. But the bigger point is we all think these P5 coaches are all paid $3 M+ and I don't think there are as many as we think.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How do you know so much about WKU? Are you a WKU fan?
Grew up a WKU fan and still follow them. I had no idea UD even existed until I started looking at colleges. I will probably be going to more Western games than Dayton games next year based on how much more talent Western will have. Heck they've already got two point guards better than Dayton has for next season.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
He's got College of Charleston on the #14 line. I think CofC will end up inside the bubble. Earl Grant is an amazing coach. In fact, he's another "Grant" that UD could have looked at. He walked into a complete mess (and that is perhaps an understatement) and has completely turned it around. They had a big year last year and return virtually everyone. This is probably his last year there, so I hope they are able to make something of it. I just hope they're able to play the right teams OOC.
Grant just signed a 5 year contract extension.

I feel bad for the school, they are talking about how great the future looks, when, like you said, he might really only be there for one more year.

These contract extensions mean diddly-squat.


https://hoopdirt.com/college-charles...year-contract/:

College of Charleston Head Coach Earl Grant has signed a new five-year contract that runs through the 2021-22 season, Director of Athletics Matt Roberts announced on Monday.

“Our men’s basketball program’s success on-and-off the court is the direct result of Earl Grant’s leadership and commitment to the College of Charleston,” Roberts said. “He and his staff have done a tremendous job in just three short years of turning our program into a competitive one in the CAA. We feel he is on the verge of taking us to the next level and national stage.”

“Earl Grant is an exceptional coach who had a terrific season, culminating in a NIT Tournament berth and recognition as CAA Coach of the Year,” College of Charleston President Glenn F. McConnell said. “Coach Grant has great energy and truly cares about the development of his players – on-and-off the court. Coach Grant is building The College’s basketball program into a conference powerhouse – one that’s built to last. He continues to be the right person to lead our Cougars into our next chapter of greatness, and I’m thrilled he will be at The College for at least another five years.”

Last edited by ud2; 04-25-2017 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:11 PM
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?i...on=1&year=2017


Updated Thursday June 1.

URI 11

SBU 11, first four

SMC 4



3 from the American...Wichita State, Cincinnati and SMU.

Indiana dropped out.

No Ohio State either...that would be missing the NCAAT 3x in a row for Matta, that might be the end for him at OSU.

Last edited by ud2; 06-03-2017 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 06-03-2017, 07:45 AM
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