Money and the New Big East

[UD_Earl]

Well how things have changed. Ha, several on the Holy Land of Hoops board are clamoring for UD now to be added to the New Big East. Regardless of the outcome this evening, everything has changed.

Does anyone know how much money Dayton has made so far due to their 3 wins and playing in this 4th game tonight? How much of this money do we share with the A-10 and how much does UD get to keep?

What is the deal if we do indeed get invited to the New Big East and decide to go? Do will forfeit this money? Do we pay a big exit fee? If anyone has any of these answers, please reply! Thanks!

This are indeed great and interesting times.

Check out this great article from ESPN.com:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...on-flying-high

[flyhi524]

Here is an interesting article about revenue and expenses of teams in the tourny from Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...n-revenue.html

[Avid Flyer]

Would Dayton bolt for the new BE. Consider the buyout now is 2 million and with the revenue Dayton has earned going to the elite 8, Dayton would be leaving another 5 million behind; thats a hefty 7 million dollars to join a league that in name appears superior but has not lived up to its prior status. Is the NBE really a better league than the A-10?

With the A-10 success this year and in particular Dayton a better TV contract could be on the horizon.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Would Dayton bolt for the new BE?

Yes. To the administration it is about more than just basketball. And in the long run the Big East will probably be better than the A-10.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Well how things have changed. Ha, several on the Holy Land of Hoops board are clamoring for UD now to be added to the New Big East. Regardless of the outcome this evening, everything has changed. Does anyone know how much money Dayton has made so far due to their 3 wins and playing in this 4th game tonight? How much of this money do we share with the A-10 and how much does UD get to keep? What is the deal if we do indeed get invited to the New Big East and decide to go? Do will forfeit this money? Do we pay a big exit fee? If anyone has any of these answers, please reply! Thanks! This are indeed great and interesting times. Check out this great article from ESPN.com: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...on-flying-high

You can bet they aren't X fans.

[Jay O'Leary]

Did anyone watch the ESPN 30/30 on "Requiem For The Big East" last week? It was so arrogant with the typical eastern city mentality. I attended Penn in Phily after UD and just hated that unfriendly, snobbish attitude for the four years I was in grad school. After viewing the ESPN piece, I don't think I even want to associate with those schools. They will never accept a mid-western school as their equal. To them we are an inferior academic institution populated by midwestern hay seeds. I say strengthen the A10 and stay put.

[bobber]

Several thoughts.

I have always felt decisions about who is "in" and "out" of the NBE were made by the presidents over a year ago. So, either we're in or we aren't.

If this, in fact, isn't the case, I would be disappointed if we got "in" in a recent decision solely because of our NCAA run this year, and not on the merits of the university as a whole. I know from a university standpoint (Dr. Dan's position, surely) that we would like to be on the inside.

But having seen the NBE in operation for its inaugural year I have a lot of misgivings. Yes, the TV money is spectacular......10 to 1 better than the A-10's current TV package. But who is to say the money will be as good for the NBE in future years? And isn't it possible the A-10, with continued success, will improve its TV package and be more financially competitive? In addition, we get a lot of games out there now with NBCsN, CBSsN, ESPN and Fox Regional networks carrying the A-10. That's a lot of exposure. Probably a lot more than the NBE teams are getting on FS1, which is chronically low in the ratings and is buried way at the end of the cable/satellite pay sports packages. FS1 was a niche operation before, but the fact it was a little hard to find was no problem because the Speed Network, as it was called, got a great viewership courtesy of hardcore NASCAR enthusiasts, of which there are many. But college basketball doesn't operate that way. You have to be accessible to the casual fan in a mass audience.

And I have always felt the idea of a Catholic/Private school league was questionable because there are just too few alumni and too few casual viewers with a geographic connection to cheer you on. And apparently I am not the only one who has misgivings. Witness the sudden departure of Buzz Williams from Marquette for a low level BCS job at VaTech. Rumors made it to print in the Milwaukee paper that Buzz had read the tea leaves and decided the future was not all that rosy in the NBE. We do know, too, that he took a fairly healthy pay cut to go from Milwaukee where they spend lavishly on basketball to Blacksburg, where they don't.

[UD_Earl]

Does anyone know the amount of money (share) UD earned for this run?

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Does anyone know the amount of money (share) UD earned for this run?

I'm sure a Prider will dig it out.

A few things:

1. Often in critical commentary a Prider will mention our "one" NCAA win in decades, or whatever. Well, that's been laid to rest.

2. Our three wins have been beyond belief. Great! But for some perspective...Butler won ten NCAA games in two years a few years ago. Talk about a remarkable achievement!

3. Priders can not help but notice that the common thread running through essentially every article written about the Flyers NCAA run was the fact that it was our first Sweet 16 appearance in 30 years. We have a view or where our program stands. But the press accounts of our run made clear that the outside world has a different view. Thirty years is a generation.....and a highlight of our coverage was that we had accomplished something that had not been done in a "generation".....that's what made us a Cinderella, not our #11 seed.

Now is the time to change that perception. In his post game AM said we'd be back. That's got to happen.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Even if the money in the NBE dries up considerably, it will still likely be much more than what UD could make in the A-10--same goes for potential media exposure each league offers. Combine that with the fact that UD would have a chance to join old rivals and de facto institutional peers, I think that if the NBE comes calling it's a no-brainer. And yes, while it would be annoying to possibly have to deal with some East Coast elitism, keep in mind that the NBE has a distinct and likely growing Midwest character in which Dayton will fit in quite nicely.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Does anyone know the amount of money (share) UD earned for this run?

I do not know how much Dayton will get after the money is split. But it is 250K per win for 6 years. So UD brought in roughly 4.5mil to the A10.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 I do not know how much Dayton will get after the money is split. But it is 250K per win for 6 years. So UD brought in roughly 4.5mil to the A10.

Actually, I think it's 6 million since you earn a unit for each game you play. I believe the A10 split is 75% to the team and 25% to the conference which is one of the most rewarding splits for any conference for the teams that make the tournament. Now if your in the ACC, all the money gets put in a pool and is divided equally. Dayton has 4.5 million (not including the small shares from the other 5 NCAA tournament schools) coming over the next 6 years or $750,000 per year.

[PinehurstFlyer]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Leary Did anyone watch the ESPN 30/30 on "Requiem For The Big East" last week? It was so arrogant with the typical eastern city mentality. I attended Penn in Phily after UD and just hated that unfriendly, snobbish attitude for the four years I was in grad school. After viewing the ESPN piece, I don't think I even want to associate with those schools. They will never accept a mid-western school as their equal. To them we are an inferior academic institution populated by midwestern hay seeds. I say strengthen the A10 and stay put.

I totally get the "eastern mentality" thing, however, it appears to me that the Big East is more "Midwestern" than the Atlantic 10 - more so if/when you add St Louis and Dayton.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Well how things have changed. Ha, several on the Holy Land of Hoops board are clamoring for UD now to be added to the New Big East. Regardless of the outcome this evening, everything has changed. Does anyone know how much money Dayton has made so far due to their 3 wins and playing in this 4th game tonight? How much of this money do we share with the A-10 and how much does UD get to keep? What is the deal if we do indeed get invited to the New Big East and decide to go? Do will forfeit this money? Do we pay a big exit fee? If anyone has any of these answers, please reply! Thanks! This are indeed great and interesting times. Check out this great article from ESPN.com: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...on-flying-high

Since the new deal with CBS/Turner has gone into place, Conferences get roughly just under $1.8 million per unit (game). Dayton earned four units for the games they played in, SLU earned two, and VCU, GW, Joe's and UMass each earned one.

That's 9 * 1.8 million. You're looking at roughly $16.2 million for the league.

The Atlantic Ten has always split it evenly, and I'm assuming they still do. So, Fordham gets as much as you do. That is something that I always hated.

A few other notes about this. The money belongs to the conference, not the teams. Louisville was in the AAC for a year. They're leaving, and they will not see any of it even though they went to the Sweet Sixteen.

It's also paid out over a six year period. You don't get it all at once. The league will get 1/6th of it each year for the next six years. In other words, the Horizon League is still getting money from Butler's two runs to the national title game. Butler is not getting any of it (or hasn't since they left).

At the same time, the A10 is still getting money from some of the Xavier runs to the Sweet Sixteen.

The Big East payout is really low this year. They only earned 5 units, and they only get 1/6th of that. Since it's the first year, they're not getting any money from previous units earned.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by xubrew The Atlantic Ten has always split it evenly, and I'm assuming they still do. So, Fordham gets as much as you do. That is something that I always hated.

http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2014...can-get-fuzzy/

The Atlantic 10, the conference VCU plays in, has a different split. The league’s revenue sharing structure sets aside 25 percent of its basketball-related revenues to divide equally between all of its schools, regardless of performance. The remaining three-fourths are distributed to member teams based on their individual tournament performance, Cupps said.

“That’s pretty aggressive,” Cupps said of the 75-25 model, and the chance at a greater reward for individual tournament success was one reason VCU jumped from the Colonial Athletic Association to the Atlantic 10 two years ago.

Several Atlantic 10 representatives and fellow member school athletic department employees did not respond to calls and emails with questions on the exact mechanics of their revenue-sharing system.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by NCkevi http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2014...can-get-fuzzy/ The Atlantic 10, the conference VCU plays in, has a different split. The league’s revenue sharing structure sets aside 25 percent of its basketball-related revenues to divide equally between all of its schools, regardless of performance. The remaining three-fourths are distributed to member teams based on their individual tournament performance, Cupps said. “That’s pretty aggressive,” Cupps said of the 75-25 model, and the chance at a greater reward for individual tournament success was one reason VCU jumped from the Colonial Athletic Association to the Atlantic 10 two years ago. Several Atlantic 10 representatives and fellow member school athletic department employees did not respond to calls and emails with questions on the exact mechanics of their revenue-sharing system.

That's a much better revenue sharing model than the old one.

I guess UD's share will be bigger than Fordham's after all.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[ruechalgrin]

IF we earn an invite the BE, we would accept it in an nanosecond despite any short-term financial issues due to NCAA units. Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette are top 25 national programs (and Xavier is in the cusp of that group). We want to be associated with that group both academically and in basketball.

Saying that, we got unlucky and outsold.

(1) Creighton has not been to an Elite 8 since 1941 (their one and only) and has just 3 Sweet 16 appearances in 1962, 1964, and 1974. Similar academics, fan base, tv market, etc. Even NCAA appearances similar except for Doug McBuckets when they have been 3/4 years, but won 3 games losing 2nd round each year. Jesuit schools really advocated for Creighton and it appears last invite was between us and them. If the BE made a decision now, would they take a Dougy McBuckets-less Creighton over an Elite 8 Dayton?
(2) Butler made their amazing runs as a poster points about above. They also have Indy tv market, but we have a better fan base, facilities, etc. If the BE were making the decision now, would they take a Brad Stevens-less Butler?
(3) Xavier - in period, they earned it.

It sounds like 4 schools in the mix for 2 spots. St. Louis, Dayton, VCU, and Richmond (they won't take both Richmond and VCU so really 2 for 3 spots).

St. Louis has the TV market, is better academically than Dayton, and is Jesuit. We have better facilities, better fan base, travel better, more NCAA success, more overall basketball success, etc., etc. St. Louis has not been to the Elite 8 since 1952 (their one and only) and has just 2 Sweet 16 appearances in 1952 and 1957. They are 6-10 in the NCAA tournament all-time with 5 wins in 50 years (2 in 10, 4 in 20, 5 in 30). So Does TV/Jesuit trump Basketball/Fans?

Richmond has slightly larger TV market (but when you add how many watch NCAA basketball to the mix it is smaller than Dayton). Academics are better than Dayton and it could be the 6th team geographically in the East. They are building new facilities. But again Dayton dominates in facilities, fan base, fan travel, and NCAA success. Richmond is 8-9 all time NCAA with 2 Sweet 16s in 1988 and 2011, but No Elite 8s. They have won 8 NCAA games in 50 yeas (2 in 10, 3, in 20, 8 in 30). Does location trump Basketball fans?

VCU is the most interesting. Same as Richmond, net/net smaller TV market with eyeballs watching games. Academics are worse than Dayton, but 6th team geographically in the East. Ok facilities which they continue to improve. Pretty similar in fans and traveling. VCU more recent NCAA success, Dayton more-long term. Also would be only public institution. VCU is 12-12 NCAA with 1 Final 4/Elite/Sweet 16 in 2011. 8 Wins last 10 years (5 during 2011 run), but wow! 8 in 20 years, 10 in 30 years, and 12 in 40 years. So does more recent NCAA success/location trump long-term NCAA success and institutional fit? I think being public eliminates them unless BE goes to 14 and adds Whichta St. as well.

Dayton 17-17 all-time NCAA (most wins and most games). 7 Sweet 16s (more than the 5 of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU combined), 3 Elite 8s (more than the 3 schools combined), 1 Final 4, 1 Final Game (No other of 3 schools has 1). 4 Wins 10 Years, 5 20 years, 9 in 30 years, etc.

Overall, the run this year can be underestimated in that in fills the hole in our resume that we haven't made a deep run for a long-time and clearly distinguishes us from St. Louis and VCU. Worst case, they take St. Louis for TV market and then decide need an East Coast team and go with Richmond/VCU. Pre this year

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer You can bet they aren't X fans.

That is true, many X fans don't want UD in the NBE.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin IF we earn an invite the BE, we would accept it in an nanosecond despite any short-term financial issues due to NCAA units. Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette are top 25 national programs (and Xavier is in the cusp of that group). We want to be associated with that group both academically and in basketball. Saying that, we got unlucky and outsold. (1) Creighton has not been to an Elite 8 since 1941 (their one and only) and has just 3 Sweet 16 appearances in 1962, 1964, and 1974. Similar academics, fan base, tv market, etc. Even NCAA appearances similar except for Doug McBuckets when they have been 3/4 years, but won 3 games losing 2nd round each year. Jesuit schools really advocated for Creighton and it appears last invite was between us and them. If the BE made a decision now, would they take a Dougy McBuckets-less Creighton over an Elite 8 Dayton? (2) Butler made their amazing runs as a poster points about above. They also have Indy tv market, but we have a better fan base, facilities, etc. If the BE were making the decision now, would they take a Brad Stevens-less Butler? (3) Xavier - in period, they earned it. It sounds like 4 schools in the mix for 2 spots. St. Louis, Dayton, VCU, and Richmond (they won't take both Richmond and VCU so really 2 for 3 spots). St. Louis has the TV market, is better academically than Dayton, and is Jesuit. We have better facilities, better fan base, travel better, more NCAA success, more overall basketball success, etc., etc. St. Louis has not been to the Elite 8 since 1952 (their one and only) and has just 2 Sweet 16 appearances in 1952 and 1957. They are 6-10 in the NCAA tournament all-time with 5 wins in 50 years (2 in 10, 4 in 20, 5 in 30). So Does TV/Jesuit trump Basketball/Fans? Richmond has slightly larger TV market (but when you add how many watch NCAA basketball to the mix it is smaller than Dayton). Academics are better than Dayton and it could be the 6th team geographically in the East. They are building new facilities. But again Dayton dominates in facilities, fan base, fan travel, and NCAA success. Richmond is 8-9 all time NCAA with 2 Sweet 16s in 1988 and 2011, but No Elite 8s. They have won 8 NCAA games in 50 yeas (2 in 10, 3, in 20, 8 in 30). Does location trump Basketball fans? VCU is the most interesting. Same as Richmond, net/net smaller TV market with eyeballs watching games. Academics are worse than Dayton, but 6th team geographically in the East. Ok facilities which they continue to improve. Pretty similar in fans and traveling. VCU more recent NCAA success, Dayton more-long term. Also would be only public institution. VCU is 12-12 NCAA with 1 Final 4/Elite/Sweet 16 in 2011. 8 Wins last 10 years (5 during 2011 run), but wow! 8 in 20 years, 10 in 30 years, and 12 in 40 years. So does more recent NCAA success/location trump long-term NCAA success and institutional fit? I think being public eliminates them unless BE goes to 14 and adds Whichta St. as well. Dayton 17-17 all-time NCAA (most wins and most games). 7 Sweet 16s (more than the 5 of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU combined), 3 Elite 8s (more than the 3 schools combined), 1 Final 4, 1 Final Game (No other of 3 schools has 1). 4 Wins 10 Years, 5 20 years, 9 in 30 years, etc. Overall, the run this year can be underestimated in that in fills the hole in our resume that we haven't made a deep run for a long-time and clearly distinguishes us from St. Louis and VCU. Worst case, they take St. Louis for TV market and then decide need an East Coast team and go with Richmond/VCU. Pre this year

Nailed it.

I will say this, Creighton was an interesting pick that, if the NBE is worried about mens hoops first and foremost, could end up biting them in the behind long-term. But Creighton does have nice facilities, good programs in sports besides mens basketball (i.e. soccer and baseball), and is a very solid academic institution that is very financially-healthy. Not to mention strong fan support, though getting to NYC or the east coast for events is a haul for them. But overall I think a stronger case could be made for Creighton over Butler.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

And hitting on the point above, just how much does the NBE care about sports besides mens basketball? If that comes up in discussion, I have to believe that UD has positioned itself very well in things like womens basketball, volleyball, etc. Question is, how do we compare overall to other potential candidates in non-revenue sports?

[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Dayton 17-17 all-time NCAA (most wins and most games). 7 Sweet 16s (more than the 5 of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU combined), 3 Elite 8s (more than the 3 schools combined), 1 Final 4, 1 Final Game (No other of 3 schools has 1). 4 Wins 10 Years, 5 20 years, 9 in 30 years, etc.

Help me out with the 5th win in 20 years. 3 in 2014, 1 in 2009, ??? I'm stumped on the 5th. 1 in 1990 makes 5 in 25 years. 3 more in 1984 makes 8 in 30. Where am I missing one?

1985 one and done to 'Nova
2000 one and done to Purdue
2003 one and done to Tulsa
2004 one and done to DePaul

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Fudd]

I am less than enamored with the Big East. They have some pedigree and more media money at the moment. A lot of their teams are coming down from association with the Old Big East. How low will they go? They have proven nothing on the court so far as a conference. Is association with them in basketball going to help us get into the NCAA tournament more often? I have big doubts about that. Is FOX going to give us more exposure than we get now? I don't think so. I think they are living in the past trying to keep a ten team league viable. It shows me how out of touch they are with how you build a league in today's basketball environment.

[ud2]

I'm fine with staying in the A10, but again, do people still like the A10 without SLU and Richmond or VCU?

SJU, GW, and UMass have all been inconsistent, just like UD.

The NBE expanding this year or in the next couple/few years seems to be a near certainty.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Fudd I am less than enamored with the Big East. They have pedigree and more media money at the moment. A lot of their teams are coming down from association with the Old Big East. How low will they go? They have proven nothing on the court so far as a conference. Is association with them in basketball going to help us get into the NCAA tournament more often? I have big doubts about that. Is FOX going to give us more exposure than we get now? I don't think so. I think they are living in the past trying to keep a ten team league viable. It shows me how out of touch they are with how you build a league in today's basketball environment.

I agree with everything you said, but if we are invited we will go, and I think we should. If we are invited chances are another A-10 team (or two) will be invited, which would weaken the A-10. Then UMass will leave for football which will weaken it further. In the long run I think the BE will be a better option than the A-10, and consists of the schools the administration wants to be associated with.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[frisco flyer]

If the BE expands, we will get the invite. Whether the BE admits it in public or not, the biggest threat to their imminence is the A10. Their best strategy for a brighter future is to improve their own conference and at the same time weaken the A10. The best way to do that is to poach the top teams in the A10, and those with the infrastructure and commitment to sustain success.

Having said that, I really like our current situation, and unlike most on this board, I don't think going to the BE is the best thing for our program at this point. Their TV deal is a big part of the attraction, but that deal is fool's gold.

I'm not saying we should turn down an invitation outright, but we are in a much better negotiating position than most people realize, and our position has just gotten that much stronger.

[hawkoooo]

What I don't understand is why the BE would want to go bigger than 10 at this point. That is unless they are getting pressure from the TV folks? Obviously they want an 18-game schedule. Could this be accomplished with 12 schools?

On that note, how does the A10 plan to accomplish an 18-game schedule with 14 schools? I tried to work in out in my head but it got too complicated and I quit. What is the obsession with 18 anyway? Is it because it makes it easier to schedule in the non con?

If I had my druthers and control of the A10 I would make a huge splash this off-season and send a strong message to those who may want to leave for greener pastures. I would add Wichita State, Bradley, Murray State and Siena and go to an 18-game schedule where you play everyone once and a rival twice. This would allow you to split the conference into 9-school divisions for all other sports to simplify schedule and greatly reduce travel expenses.

[Avid Flyer]

We are in a good position with the A-10 for being a top tier program and frequent player in the NCAA. Better than we would be in the BE. TV ratings are down with the Fox1 broadcasts as the NBE is a watered down league compared to what it was, even Buzz Williams indicated so. Losing a coach of a top program does not speak well for the league. Rumors have it Mack could be going to Wake. Losing two coaches would be huge.

On the other hand Shaka Smart turning down Marquette and staying put and Archie making a similar statement speaks well for the A-10. I think the BE stays put at 10 for a couple more years, then we can better gauge where we are best suited.

SLU would be the most likely school to join the BE but after their fall in the last half this year and the uncertainty of their continued success with Crews, they may take a wait and see attitude.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ruechalgrin]

Originally Posted by AQUDXU Help me out with the 5th win in 20 years. 3 in 2014, 1 in 2009, ??? I'm stumped on the 5th. 1 in 1990 makes 5 in 25 years. 3 more in 1984 makes 8 in 30. Where am I missing one? 1985 one and done to 'Nova 2000 one and done to Purdue 2003 one and done to Tulsa 2004 one and done to DePaul

Miscount, you are correct.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ruechalgrin]

Hawkooo, Fox has said will increase overall pot of $ so per school remains the same with 12.

All about NCAA appearances and perception of league. If BE had Dayton and St. Louis this year, perception much more positive.
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo What I don't understand is why the BE would want to go bigger than 10 at this point. That is unless they are getting pressure from the TV folks? Obviously they want an 18-game schedule. Could this be accomplished with 12 schools? On that note, how does the A10 plan to accomplish an 18-game schedule with 14 schools? I tried to work in out in my head but it got too complicated and I quit. What is the obsession with 18 anyway? Is it because it makes it easier to schedule in the non con?

With 14 schools you could play 8 teams once and 5 teams twice. With 12 schools you could play 7 teams twice and 4 teams once. Since most conferences are going to the 18 game schedule it is getting more difficult to schedule non-conference games. And more teams in the conference would probably result in more teams in the NCAA Tournament.

[Crunk Juice]

Ruechalgrin, great post.

I wonder if the Big East has some buyer's remorse with Butler. They were essentially the Brad Stevens show, and rode the tidal wave of 2 improbable NCAA tournaments from the Horizon to the Big East. They don't seem like a good fit to me in the Big East.
1. They are not a Catholic school
2. They are not very big
3. They are not even close to being the biggest show in Indy (compete with Pacers, IU, and Purdue for attention).
4. Their arena has history, but is dated and does not exactly scream big time basketball.

When Steven's left I predicted they would be done. I'm not convinced they have the facilities, money, or fan base to compete with the big boys in college basketball.

Creighton I think was a coin toss with Dayton. Being Jesuit helped them. I have to think being in Nebraska hurt them, even though it is a new market. If you look at a map of the NBE, Creighton is on a geographic island. Their recent NCAA success has not been that impressive as you pointed out. They do have great fan support in Omaha which is a positive for them. In the end I'm guessing more schools (Marquette) lobbied for them than for UD, and that is why they got the bid.

[UDBrian]

The numbers per tournament appearance were even larger than I expected. It is pretty simple on why UD would pay a coach $2 - $3 million, the tournament appearances would pay for most of it and all of it some years.

You could make a lot of it incentive pay where the coach received half of the ncaa appearance money going to ud.

[jack72]

I would be darn interested to find out what UD is paying Archie. I guess there is no way unless an insider leaks it. Rollo, you're close to Archie's wife aren't you?

[CE80]

Originally Posted by jack72 I would be darn interested to find out what UD is paying Archie. I guess there is no way unless an insider leaks it. Rollo, you're close to Archie's wife aren't you?

Not after the restraining order.

[Chris R]

You can talk money, you can talk TV contracts, you can talk national perception, you can talk ticket sales. All of that is well and good.

But at the end of the day it doesn't mean much of anything if you are aligned with institutions that do not look at you as an equal -- equal partner, equal athletically, equal academically, and equal share of the success/common good of the league.

I'll give you 10,000 words to try and convince me there's a single institution in the new Big East that looks upon Dayton as an equal in anything. They've already told us we are sub-standard to them by the fact that over the last 15 years, they have virtually banned the University of Dayton from playing them in a home/home series.

What has never been good enough in the non-conference for them is now suddenly sunshine and rainbows when its a league match? The way you determine how someone else truly feels about you is how they treat you when there is nothing in it for them.

You can't pick your enemies, but you can sure pick your friends. There is no limit to the number of trailing zeroes on a check that will still fall woefully short of fixing the red-headed stepchild treatment these institutions have and will continue to have in the future. Just knowing we were "not good enough" in the first round of 'pickins' tells us that there will always be a heirarchy in that league -- the founding members of the new format, and then the teams like Dayton that were forced to get on hands and knees and beg for an invitation so we could eat the table with the other cool people in the cafeteria.

Dayton should go tell the Big East to go sit and spin. Nobody needs the types of friends that only call when they need something. We are doing just fine without them. We are not hemorrhaging. Their financial watering hole is going to dry up because the dismal TV ratings are unsustainable to honor the television contract.

There are plenty of other nice tables in the cafeteria to sit at where we are not constantly ridiculed, put down, and shamed for being who we are. Those aren't the type of friends I'd want to share lunch with. No matter how well-liked they are by others in the school.

Relationships trump money and right now the A10 is a great fit. Its not the perfect fit. There are no unicorns. But I believe its the right fit -- for now.

[steve]

Originally Posted by jack72 I would be darn interested to find out what UD is paying Archie. I guess there is no way unless an insider leaks it. Rollo, you're close to Archie's wife aren't you?

Well, whatever it is it will be more tomorrow than the contact he signed in Feb.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Chris R Relationships trump money and right now the A10 is a great fit. Its not the perfect fit. There are no unicorns. But I believe its the right fit -- for now.

The money might be better in the Big East, but I think the A10 provides a better chance at making the dance on a regular basis. Somebody has to be on the bottom of any league. You want to be in the top half at the same time, you want the bottom to be good enough that it doesn't drag you down. The A10 is exactly that on a regular basis.

Dayton is, and will continue to be, in the top half of the A10. Even in our bad years, we only fall to the middle of the pack. Other than Fordham, the bad teams each year are not too bad. Fordham and Duquesene are two teams you can generally count out each year as not being in the running for a bid. EVERYBODY else might be. And might not be. They all have their up years and down years. VCU is the closest to an 'every year' contender, but they just got here. And now, hopefully, we are in the running every year too.

In the Big East, we'd have a better strength of schedule, most likely, but I don't think it would be easier to get a bid there.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R You can talk money, you can talk TV contracts, you can talk national perception, you can talk ticket sales. All of that is well and good. But at the end of the day it doesn't mean much of anything if you are aligned with institutions that do not look at you as an equal -- equal partner, equal athletically, equal academically, and equal share of the success/common good of the league. I'll give you 10,000 words to try and convince me there's a single institution in the new Big East that looks upon Dayton as an equal in anything. They've already told us we are sub-standard to them by the fact that over the last 15 years, they have virtually banned the University of Dayton from playing them in a home/home series. What has never been good enough in the non-conference for them is now suddenly sunshine and rainbows when its a league match? The way you determine how someone else truly feels about you is how they treat you when there is nothing in it for them. You can't pick your enemies, but you can sure pick your friends. There is no limit to the number of trailing zeroes on a check that will still fall woefully short of fixing the red-headed stepchild treatment these institutions have and will continue to have in the future. Just knowing we were "not good enough" in the first round of 'pickins' tells us that there will always be a heirarchy in that league -- the founding members of the new format, and then the teams like Dayton that were forced to get on hands and knees and beg for an invitation so we could eat the table with the other cool people in the cafeteria. Dayton should go tell the Big East to go sit and spin. Nobody needs the types of friends that only call when they need something. We are doing just fine without them. We are not hemorrhaging. Their financial watering hole is going to dry up because the dismal TV ratings are unsustainable to honor the television contract. There are plenty of other nice tables in the cafeteria to sit at where we are not constantly ridiculed, put down, and shamed for being who we are. Those aren't the type of friends I'd want to share lunch with. No matter how well-liked they are by others in the school. Relationships trump money and right now the A10 is a great fit. Its not the perfect fit. There are no unicorns. But I believe its the right fit -- for now.

Chris, I agree completely. But Dan Curran and Tim Wabler know these things. They are proud, honorable men. If they willingly overlook the "truths" you have summarized, perhaps we are overlooking something, or at least underestimating the importance of something.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow In the Big East, we'd have a better strength of schedule, most likely, but I don't think it would be easier to get a bid there.

Don't forget X got a bid with a 10-8 conference record, and only 11-4 in the non-conference. Providence got the automatic bid, but probably was in anyway also with a 10-8 conference record.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by steve Well, whatever it is it will be more tomorrow than the contact he signed in Feb.

I am sure the contract was put together (penciled in) with the success he had and they both know the actual amount now that the season has ended. Plus Wabler's comment that UD will match any offer is telling.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Don't forget X got a bid with a 10-8 conference record, and only 11-4 in the non-conference. Providence got the automatic bid, but probably was in anyway also with a 10-8 conference record.

Yes X got a bid to the field of 68, not 64. Big difference in perception.

Plus with Creighton and Villanova's high NCAA rankings and seed, not one BE team got beyond filed of 32.

[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Miscount, you are correct. Posted via Mobile Device

****. I wanted to be wrong this time.

[ruechalgrin]

Originally Posted by Chris R You can talk money, you can talk TV contracts, you can talk national perception, you can talk ticket sales. All of that is well and good. But at the end of the day it doesn't mean much of anything if you are aligned with institutions that do not look at you as an equal -- equal partner, equal athletically, equal academically, and equal share of the success/common good of the league. I'll give you 10,000 words to try and convince me there's a single institution in the new Big East that looks upon Dayton as an equal in anything. They've already told us we are sub-standard to them by the fact that over the last 15 years, they have virtually banned the University of Dayton from playing them in a home/home series. What has never been good enough in the non-conference for them is now suddenly sunshine and rainbows when its a league match? The way you determine how someone else truly feels about you is how they treat you when there is nothing in it for them. You can't pick your enemies, but you can sure pick your friends. There is no limit to the number of trailing zeroes on a check that will still fall woefully short of fixing the red-headed stepchild treatment these institutions have and will continue to have in the future. Just knowing we were "not good enough" in the first round of 'pickins' tells us that there will always be a heirarchy in that league -- the founding members of the new format, and then the teams like Dayton that were forced to get on hands and knees and beg for an invitation so we could eat the table with the other cool people in the cafeteria. Dayton should go tell the Big East to go sit and spin. Nobody needs the types of friends that only call when they need something. We are doing just fine without them. We are not hemorrhaging. Their financial watering hole is going to dry up because the dismal TV ratings are unsustainable to honor the television contract. There are plenty of other nice tables in the cafeteria to sit at where we are not constantly ridiculed, put down, and shamed for being who we are. Those aren't the type of friends I'd want to share lunch with. No matter how well-liked they are by others in the school. Relationships trump money and right now the A10 is a great fit. Its not the perfect fit. There are no unicorns. But I believe its the right fit -- for now.

Rumor is it was down to Creighton and Dayton and Marquette made an enormous push for Creighton. With 5 of the 7 Schools being Eastern based, Marquette's view as the pre-eminent program in the Midwest (and of of the big 3 with Georgetown and Villanova) carried a bunch of weight. Xavier was no-brainer and at the time Butler was a no-brainer (with Brad Stevens rejecting UCLA, etc. and looking to be their for life + Indy market). Sorry, but both Xavier and Butler developed national brand identies the last 10 years and we did not. Trying to be objective, I don't blame the 7 BE members for picking Xavier and Butler and it was a toss-up between Creighton and Dayton and they had a strong advocate and we did not.

I think St. John's, Providence, Butler, Creighton, DePaul, and Seton Hall would welcome us with open arms if we were extended an invite. Remember DePaul holding off accepting the invite to Conference USA and at least acting like they were considering the A-10 and would only really consider it if Dayton got in. Remember Xavier going to bat for us to get us into the A-10. Xavier probably will be neutral and Marquette, Georgetown, and Villanova will look down upon us as they are the 3 elite teams in the Big East and look down on everybody.

The Big East will help our basketball program. Even Providence has a top 20 national recruiting class as does Xavier. In the Big East, Archie could be recruiting such classes.

We accept it in a nanosecond.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Yes X got a bid to the field of 68, not 64. Big difference in perception.

Disagree. There are 68 teams in the Tourney, and they were one of the 68. Based on what VCU, LaSalle, and now Tennessee have done coming out of the First Four, I think people are accepting the First Four as a real part of the Tournament, which it is.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Hawkooo, Fox has said will increase overall pot of $ so per school remains the same with 12. All about NCAA appearances and perception of league. If BE had Dayton and St. Louis this year, perception much more positive. Posted via Mobile Device

So what is the cap on that number of schools? Presumably more schools equals more bids and if TV money stays the same why wouldn't the BE add more?

[frisco flyer]

The more teams in the BE conference, the more games Fox can broadcast. With the ratings so abysmal though, why would Fox have any interest in expanding the conference and broadcasting more games?

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer The more teams in the BE conference, the more games Fox can broadcast. With the ratings so abysmal though, why would Fox have any interest in expanding the conference and broadcasting more games?

Because the alternative is???

Fox is trying to draw viewers to a new network. It needs time. Don't forget that the Winter Olympics probably hurt ratings for 3 weeks.

Yes, Chris is right but his argument is more emotionally based rather than factual based. Would there be different $ split between UD and others? Would UD have less voting privileges than others?

Long term, the new BE would provide UD with the ability to grow into a perennial top 25 program and have the $ to retain top coaches.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by springborofan Because the alternative is???

just about everything

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by springborofan Yes, Chris is right but his argument is more emotionally based rather than factual based. .

Just the opposite. The behavior of the BE teams towards Dayton took all of the emotion out of any opinion I have of them. Its purely based on facts. How they treat us is not an emotion, it is an observation. Joining the Big East for romantic what-ifs seems highly emotional however.

[TerryK_67]

tell em to GO POUND SAND!

[AC91]

I truly believe the desire of UD to eventually be in the BE goes well beyond basketball. These are the schools I think UD feels are their peer institutions and from a national prestige standpoint I can understand that. From a basketball standpoint The A10 offers as much as the BE (maybe even more in the short term) but if you view the basketball program as a means to advance the perception of your university as an institution, it makes total sense for UD to want their association to be with their institutional peers. I get that there may be some disdain on the BE side, but UD has been climbing a steady climb over the past couple of decades by proving itself and making shrewd decisions. I do not think it is intimidated by idea that they would have to prove themselves and earn credibility once there. if we were to get the invite and take it, the strategy by UD would make complete sense to me. Basketball is certainly a big piece of the puzzle, but it is still a means, not the end.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo So what is the cap on that number of schools? Presumably more schools equals more bids and if TV money stays the same why wouldn't the BE add more?

I don't know that two more team meant any more bids this year. For kicks, say the two more were SLU. VCU and UD and whichever two it is, one goes 12-6 and the other went 11-7. My guess is they get bids, and Providence and X do not (unless Providence still wins the auto bid).

I see the Big East very much like the A10, a three bid leagues with occassionally more or less. The Big East is probably on the higher side of the three and the A10 a little on the lower side.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[priceg75]

For those of us that still think the Big East would be desirable (because, among other things, it would be a lot more fun to host Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown, X, et. al. than it is to host Duquesne, Rhode Island, St. Bonaventure)... this run really took one of the biggest strikes against us and eliminated it.

If they don't take us now, it's not because our program hasn't had recent tournament success. If anything, we were the darling of the tourney and will probably have a lot of good press going into next year. If they don't want us for other reasons, I get that. I also don't think we should join as any sort of red-headed stepchild. But if we are invited, I don't think we will be.

However, I do think that Fox is probably having a lot of second thoughts about inviting more teams and having to shell out another $50MM per team over however many years it is considering how their 1st year coverage went over like a lead balloon.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[ud86]

Personally, I'm getting tired of people on this board trashing the NBE -- saying ratings are low and saying that Butler and Creighton should have never been invited. Let's stop looking backwards and just look forward. Even if people feel that that the additions of Butler and Creighton were not wise, there's nothing that can be done now. They are in the league and they won't kick out anyone. We just sound petty and jealous. And I don't think the ratings for A10 games on CBS Sports Network are any better than the NBE games on FoxSports1.

The NBE is a good league and I wish that UD will someday be invited. But I also believe that UD will do fine staying within the A10.

I have a strong feeling that the people who are trashing the NBE will quickly turn around and start trash-talking the A10 if we are ever invited to join the NBE. It's much better to take the "high-road" and talk about the positives about your program, but not have to belittle other programs or conferences. Think about Coach K talking about how the ACC deserved more teams in the NCAA tourney and that the six A10 were undeserving because they did not go through the "meat grinder" of the ACC. Coach K really got slammed with his remarks. Shaka Smart said it eloquently that it's fine to advocate for one's league -- you just don't have to knock-down other conferences to do it.

Let's have the same attitude about our program. Let's not be jealous or be petty toward other conferences. We have a lot to be proud about our UD basketball program (especially this year.) UD is currently in fine multi-bid conference, and we have set up ourselves to remain one of the top teams in the league.

The future is bright Flyer fans. Let's just enjoy the ride.

[Fudd]

I'm with Chris on this for a variety of reasons. NCAA tournament participation and success is everything, IMO. Nothing impacts our national rep more than that. Nothing else is even close.

I think that the NBE has trouble getting a bunch of teams in the tournament unless they decide to grow substantially. I think they need about 14 teams. They are concerned about the per team FOX payout far too much. I think that is extremely short sighted. They need rivalries and interesting games. They need a significant number of teams in the dance. Their egos are in the way of their own success. Who wants to watch Seton Hall play Butler twice per year? Put Saint Joes, UD, Saint Louis and VCU in there. Lower the payout per team by 1 million. The payback would be huge and the league would be interesting, even to outsiders. Every game would be interesting rather than a replay of the same boring game that happened a month ago.

They have a bunker mentality of hoarding their gold rather than trying to improve the overall product. They also have a bunker mentality of trying to blackball other similar teams in their "recruiting zone", thinking that is going to raise their individual programs in the long run. I think that is also laughable. Exploit the rivalry opporutnities rather than run from them. I think they are already mismanaging their opportunities.

They are playing not to lose rather than playing to win.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Chris R Just the opposite. The behavior of the BE teams towards Dayton took all of the emotion out of any opinion I have of them. Its purely based on facts. How they treat us is not an emotion, it is an observation. Joining the Big East for romantic what-ifs seems highly emotional however.

Show me where it states that UD would get less $ than the 10 now and would have a less than 1 vote on future matters and I'll consider it a fact based decision. Not joining because someone didn't invite you earlier (or didn't play you in the recent past) is an emotional decision.

[Sea Bass]

IMO the university would like to be associated with their Catholic Brethren in the NBE but that now have a large stash of cash in the A10 and with the horrid ratings on Fox and the ESPN blackout on the NBE you have to wonder what the future is.

Buzz departing Marquette for VT was a huge red flag and I would say it would cause schools in the A10 to at least pause and ponder before running off to the NBE. The top teams in the A10 got a as much or more exposure through ESPN, CBS Sports, NBC Sports. Almost every Flyer game was televised.

What I would have previously said was a no-brainer is not that anymore and the ESPN thing is huge because they drive college basketball coverage.

[flyer2003]

UD got fantastic exposure in the tourney in part bc they were the last underdog standing. Maybe overly optimistic thinking, but another Sweet 16 run in the next 1-2 seasons could make them the attractive underdog/small conference team that ESPN sort of hand selects for giving lots of exposure. XU, Creighton, and Butler have all removed themselves from being one of those ESPN teams bc of the TV deal with Fox. Zaga still gets it. VCU arguably gets some of it. That's not to say joining the NBE wouldn't gain more or better exposure given the name brand of the schools you're playing, but the current situation isn't the worst thing in the world, either, if UD could be one of those ESPN-darlings

I agree with whoever said it above -- potentially the biggest reason for wanting to bolt is not about today, but about tomorrow -- the fear of being in a conference without SLU, VCU, and UMass. Here's hoping one more sweet 16 solidifies that someone will see UD as too attractive of an option to pass on.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass IMO the university would like to be associated with their Catholic Brethren in the NBE but that now have a large stash of cash in the A10 and with the horrid ratings on Fox and the ESPN blackout on the NBE you have to wonder what the future is. Buzz departing Marquette for VT was a huge red flag and I would say it would cause schools in the A10 to at least pause and ponder before running off to the NBE. The top teams in the A10 got a as much or more exposure through ESPN, CBS Sports, NBC Sports. Almost every Flyer game was televised. What I would have previously said was a no-brainer is not that anymore and the ESPN thing is huge because they drive college basketball coverage.

Yeah, but the great thing about Fox is that they are in something like 90 million homes nationwide. If UD were in the NBE, practically any Flyer fan anywhere in the US would be able to watch every UD game on tv.

Fox is big time, I don't know if CBSSN/NBCSN/etc. are as widely available.

Heck, earlier this year, I think I wanted to watch the UD vs. SJU A10 tournament game at the Fricker's in Mason, and the manager told me that they couldn't get the game, and the place probably has around, I don't know, 25 or 30 tvs showing every imaginable sporting event. I was majorly bummed that I couldn't watch the game.

I think TWC Dayton had the rights to the game or something.

If UD was in the NBE this year, I can practically guarantee that Fricker's would have been able to get the game.

If UD gets in the NBE, you can kiss goodbye the days of searching the internet for a stream to watch the game because every game is on Fox or CBSSN or NBCSN, etc.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[Sea Bass]

Fox FS1 is a less available then CBSSN and NBCSN and also FS1 did not get anywhere close to the carriage fees that they had hoped.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass Fox FS1 is a less available then CBSSN and NBCSN and also FS1 did not get anywhere close to the carriage fees that they had hoped.

Fair enough, but being in the NBE I think would mean the end of certain games only being on tv in the Dayton viewing area only because every single game would be on either Fox or CBSSN or NBCSN, etc.

[udx2]

Not unhappy with being in the A10 and do not feel that our mission in life should be to get into the NBE. Instead, I would love to see consistent success in conference and in the NCAA tournament. When that happens, and I believe that it will, everything will fall into place.

That said, I would like us to be able to play NBE teams every year and believe that would be good for us and for them.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by springborofan Show me where it states that UD would get less $ than the 10 now and would have a less than 1 vote on future matters and I'll consider it a fact based decision. Not joining because someone didn't invite you earlier (or didn't play you in the recent past) is an emotional decision.

Never said UD would get less money in the Big East. I said they would eventually get far less than the BE gets now and the difference between the BE and A10 would not be overly significant enough to change whether we can compete at a national level or not.

If I steal your wife's car, then you buy another car and I promise not to steal her new car, is your solution to add additional locks to your garage an emotion decision?

I think not. Its a practical, logical one.

Emotion is when you make decisions without regard to what prior behavior and actions tell you. Like a wife choosing to stay with a battering spouse.

You cant change a tiger's stripes. These opinions and feelings by other schools about Dayton go beyond their President. Its in their water. Now THEIR hatred and second-class opinion of Dayton may be emotionally-charged, but my decision to remove myself from their company is reasonable and logical. I have no emotion about it whatsoever. My diastolic doesn't rise a bit.

[UD62]

Whether you are for or against joining the NBE if invited is an academic exercise. If offered the administration will go in a New York minute.

[m21eagle45]

If my choice is join the NBE or stay in the A10 that just lost 2 of SLU, Richmond, VCU and UMass in the next few years I am picking the NBE. The depleted A10 would not be a 3-4 bid league anymore it would be a 2 bid league most years with a chance for a 3rd during a good year. That makes it much harder to reach the tourney. I'll take my chances with being in the top 5-6 of the NBE than top 2 of A10. I could care less if they think we are their peers or not, fact is we would be by being in their league. I think it's more important we suck up our pride on this 1.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CE80]

Big East. Can't live with it. Can't live without it.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R ....These opinions and feelings by other schools about Dayton go beyond their President. Its in their water. Now THEIR hatred and second-class opinion of Dayton....

What the NBE presidents, ADs, coaches, etc, think about UD matters, of course. And their opinion of us is not high. But, that goes well beyond the NBE. U.S. News' peer assessment ranking of UD is very low, which is why we have been unable to climb in their annual rankings.

Reputation lags reality..and that will change over time. But to use the word "hatred" is way, way over the top. There is no logical and/or rational reason for anyone to "hate" UD,...any more than there is for us to hate some other school.

[Bat'71]

The infatuation with the NBE by some on this Board still amazes me. It is not, I repeat, NOT, the original BE, the BE that was one of the top BB conferences in the land. That ship left port a year or two ago and will not be returning. The main thing the NBE has going for it is the revenue stream from the current Fox broadcast deal. Both 'Nova and Creighten got embarrassed early in this year's Tourney, while X barely made it in and Providence also was a one and done. Meanwhile, the haughty Marquette squad lost it's coach when he took a pay cut to get the heck out of Milwaukee to head to Blacksburg, VA of all places; now, that's embarrassing! The future strength of the NBE is far from assured and we may be better off sticking with the A-10, which BTW, has been very good to us.

Also, keep in mind that once the ACC descends on the Barclay Center in 2017 for it's Conference Tourney, it will suck all the oxygen out of the NY and National Media with the NBE "Garden Party" being an afterthought. Once Syracuse, Pitt, ND, Louisville, Duke and NC take over the Big Apple for a week, the NBE will get very little attention as the throngs will amass in Brooklyn. If we wind up in the NBE, fine, but I'd be just as happy staying where we are in the A-10 which can be every bit as good with as much if not more national exposure as the NBE. Hopefully our Commish can recut the A-10's broadcast rights to get us close to a par with the NBE...that would be a coup worth staying around for.

[Bat'71]

Let's give this "academic" argument for conference affiliation a rest, can we? The NBE, the A-10, the ACC...pick a conference, are not in any real sense "academic affiliations"; as much as people may claim they may be, in reality they are sports conferences. If you want an excellent undergraduate education you can get it virtually anywhere if you're dedicated and put in the work. Once you get below the top 10-20% of the student body at most universities, the remaining student bodies are pretty interchangeable. Look, if you want to be an intellectual snob, give me Caltech, Williams College, Roger Mudd, Horace Mann, M.I.T., most of the Ivies will do, U of Chicago, Duke, G'town, N.D., BC, Fordham, Cal Berkley, etc., but don't give me DePaul, Marquette, Creighten, 'Nova, Providence or Gawd forbid, "X". BTW, I could have attended 'Nova, ND, SHU and St. John's, but I chose UD.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[FlyingArrow]

I chose UD over Carnegie Mellon.

[CE80]

I chose UD over NJIT (seriously, sort of). I knew they would be the last independent standing and if they weren't in a conference, I knew I couldn't participate in any message board threads about conference affiliation (not serious at all).

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 ..... The main thing the NBE has going for it is the revenue stream from the current Fox broadcast deal....

That's not the way the UD leadership sees it Bat.

As for the A10...as is, I'm more than satisfied. But, in a few years the A10 may look quite different.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by Fudd I'm with Chris on this for a variety of reasons. NCAA tournament participation and success is everything, IMO. Nothing impacts our national rep more than that. Nothing else is even close. I think that the NBE has trouble getting a bunch of teams in the tournament unless they decide to grow substantially. I think they need about 14 teams. They are concerned about the per team FOX payout far too much. I think that is extremely short sighted. They need rivalries and interesting games. They need a significant number of teams in the dance. Their egos are in the way of their own success. Who wants to watch Seton Hall play Butler twice per year? Put Saint Joes, UD, Saint Louis and VCU in there. Lower the payout per team by 1 million. The payback would be huge and the league would be interesting, even to outsiders. Every game would be interesting rather than a replay of the same boring game that happened a month ago. They have a bunker mentality of hoarding their gold rather than trying to improve the overall product. They also have a bunker mentality of trying to blackball other similar teams in their "recruiting zone", thinking that is going to raise their individual programs in the long run. I think that is also laughable. Exploit the rivalry opporutnities rather than run from them. I think they are already mismanaging their opportunities. They are playing not to lose rather than playing to win.

Let me first say that I couldn't care less about the Big East, joining or not joining. If they ever do expand and take more A-10 teams like SLU, VCU and/or Richmond, then I'll probably start caring.

I do agree with Fudd, I think it is in both the Big East and Fox's best interests to see the league grow and expand. If you add a VCU, Dayton, SLU and Wichita St., you make that conference a lot more interesting. Wichita and Creighton had a nice rivalry going, plus Wichita would get another "western" team in the mix so Creighton wouldn't feel so lonely way out there. All 4 of these schools have quality facilities and a good fan base. Stick to the current 10 teams, and it is snooze fest. Just my opinion.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Yes. To the administration it is about more than just basketball. And in the long run the Big East will probably be better than the A-10.

Where is the evidence for that? I mean how do you suppose the Big East will be better than the A10? What evidence is there? The only way that happens, is for UD and/or Saint Louis, etc., to move over into the Big East. Which I hope never happens, as UD doesn't need the little big east to be nationally successful in basketball. Just make the NCAA tourney more often and win a game or more each time, and there is your revenue difference, or at-least it allows for other things that will also help supplement the revenue difference.

Please, just when things are going good for the hoops program, don't screw-it-up by going to a nonsense overblown conference that is akin to being "all dressed-up and no where to go!"

If the new little big east is a conference where XU can stay at or near the top, then perhaps it is no better than the last conference Xavier was in where they stayed on top. And, X might even be slipping a little, so how do you figure, where and what are the indicators that the new little big east has a better year than the A10 in the next couple of seasons?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[NCkevi]

UD's run will earn the A10 a little over 1 million dollars a year for the next 6 years - the A10 only takes 25% of the tournament shares to distribute among all conference teams (while for comparison the ACC takes 100%) and they give bigger cuts to the teams that play in the tourney. If UD gets to keep the entire 75% i believe that would work out 750k a year for 6 years and that stays with the A10 if we leave - just something else to think about

[Viperstick]

I've always viewed this whole conference realignment thing through the prism of international relations theory--you look out for your own self interests & you have no one to blame but yourself when your schise's in the street.

We can hate (and I'll admit that I have a visceral dislike for these schools) programs like Marquette for screwing us when we were left out of C-USA back in the mid-90s, programs like Georgetown & Villanova for looking down their noses at us, or our "friends" down I-75 who appear to be distancing themselves from us. However, at the end of the day, they're all trying to do the same thing we are--position themselves up the NCAA food chain far enough to bring prestige & monetary windfall to their university.

Dayton is both a threat and an opportunity. The threat is a perceived concern that our program will somehow dilute the prestige of the NBE and impair it's strength vis-à-vis the other power conferences. The opportunity was not readily apparent up until about 10 days ago, but is now at the forefront--a rabid fan base supporting a hard nosed, well coached basketball team. This opportunity is tailor made for a basketball centric conference in dire need of some excitement & rivalries. UD-X is a no-brainer; think UD-Butler, UD-Marquette, UD-DePaul, UD-St Johns (hello, NYC alums!!!)... I think the opportunity side of things just got tipped with our Elite Eight run.

But self interest goes both ways. Does the NBE have staying power? Are the top dogs (G-Town, Villanova) truly committed, or would they jump at a Notre Dame-esque arrangement with the ACC if offered? Would UD be treated as an equal at the table (voting, money split)? Is UD more interested in the academic association with G-Town & Villanova than the athletic association? Does it look like the Fox money will be around after the initial deal is up? Most importantly, will we be able to compete in the NBE and reach or exceed the level we just claimed this past weekend?

I like the A-10, it's been very good to us. I like St Joes, I like VCU, I like SLU (hate Richmond). But at the end of the day, we need to be self interested. If we can get a better long term deal in the NBE and it fulfills other objectives, we should go, and we will go.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bobber]

G'town and Villanova are probably jockeying as we speak to be the non-football counterbalance for Notre Dame in the ACC.

My money is on G'town.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Fair enough, but being in the NBE I think would mean the end of certain games only being on tv in the Dayton viewing area only because every single game would be on either Fox or CBSSN or NBCSN, etc.

Fox Sports 1 or 2 showed the Butler Manchester (Division III school in Indiana) regular season game last year. Big East schools had all of their home at least out of conference games broadcast on national tv even the low caliber buy games.

I'm happy to remain in the A10 but getting into the Big East would mean just about all Flyer games with the possible exception of a road in non-league play would be on national tv and in HD. I could go into a BW3's anywhere in the country and see a Dayton game. No more A10 network, having to rely on internet streams, Channel 7 or hoping your cable/satellite provider has an obscure regional network like Fox Sports Ohio or MSG

This could be a sell with out of area recruits families too

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Are the top dogs (G-Town, Villanova) truly committed, or would they jump at a Notre Dame-esque arrangement with the ACC if offered?

Originally Posted by bobber G'town and Villanova are probably jockeying as we speak to be the non-football counterbalance for Notre Dame in the ACC. My money is on G'town.

None of this will ever happen. The ACC is an all-sports conference. If you don't have football, you're out. If the ACC ever decided to take a 16th school, it would basically be between UConn and Cincinnati. Not Georgetown or Villanova.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by priceg75 None of this will ever happen. The ACC is an all-sports conference. If you don't have football, you're out. If the ACC ever decided to take a 16th school, it would basically be between UConn and Cincinnati. Not Georgetown or Villanova.

ND is a unique situation. There will no non-FB schools in the ACC. In fact, there are none now. ND is a FB school and part of its ACC membership requires playing ACC schools in FB.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Fox Sports 1 or 2 showed the Butler Manchester (Division III school in Indiana) regular season game last year. Big East schools had all of their home at least out of conference games broadcast on national tv even the low caliber buy games. I'm happy to remain in the A10 but getting into the Big East would mean just about all Flyer games with the possible exception of a road in non-league play would be on national tv and in HD. I could go into a BW3's anywhere in the country and see a Dayton game. No more A10 network, having to rely on internet streams, Channel 7 or hoping your cable/satellite provider has an obscure regional network like Fox Sports Ohio or MSG This could be a sell with out of area recruits families too

Yeah, I totally agree, that's exactly what I was trying to say, thank-you.

[KYFlyer]

Originally Posted by priceg75 None of this will ever happen. The ACC is an all-sports conference. If you don't have football, you're out. If the ACC ever decided to take a 16th school, it would basically be between UConn and Cincinnati. Not Georgetown or Villanova.

Obviously you have not been paying attention. If Maryland gets out of their exit fee or a substantial portion of it, the merry go round will start again. I am betting on them getting out of it and the ACC eventually looking like the old Big East plus the few ACC leftovers that no other football conference wants.

[priceg75]

Yes, you are right. I have not been paying attention. Georgetown and Villanova will end up in the ACC. You called it first.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Yes, you are right. I have not been paying attention. Georgetown and Villanova will end up in the ACC. You called it first.

I think KYFlyer is the one who hasn't been paying attention. I don't see why the ACC would want to get into the same mess the old Big East got into with some football schools and some basketball-only schools.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Isn't Maryland and Rutgers heading to the Big 10? Why would the ACC want to add two teams to get to a 16 team basketball conference and 13.5 team football conference. Nova and especially G'town would be great from an academic perspective, but why add to an already pretty loaded conference. I also would assume that G'town and Nova were the biggest drivers for pushing the new basketball only conference.

Whole idea of them joining the ACC is hard to comprehend, they would be second class in that conference, which is what they just got out of.

[Medford]

I could see them adding 1, to get from 15 bball schools up to 16, so that there is never a weekend where a team has to "sit out" (although since we had this in the A10 this season, was it really that big a deal the weekend UD had no game in the middle of conference play?) I doubt you see them add 2 basketball only teams at least under the current landscape.

[Beatty Town Coach]

You cannot get into the ACC without major football, not going to happen...ever in this lifetime.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by Medford I could see them adding 1, to get from 15 bball schools up to 16, so that there is never a weekend where a team has to "sit out" (although since we had this in the A10 this season, was it really that big a deal the weekend UD had no game in the middle of conference play?) I doubt you see them add 2 basketball only teams at least under the current landscape.

I tend to think the off-week during conference play actually helped UD. It came at the right time, and likely helped us in preparation and development.

[KYFlyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I think KYFlyer is the one who hasn't been paying attention. I don't see why the ACC would want to get into the same mess the old Big East got into with some football schools and some basketball-only schools.

The ACC is going to add schools because they are going to lose schools to the B1G, SEC, and Big 12. Assuming that Maryland gets their exit fee waived or severely reduced, you are going to see another round of movement that leaves the ACC needing teams which they will get from the AAC and Big East.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by KYFlyer The ACC is going to add schools because they are going to lose schools to the B1G, SEC, and Big 12. Assuming that Maryland gets their exit fee waived or severely reduced, you are going to see another round of movement that leaves the ACC needing teams which they will get from the AAC and Big East.

AAC yes, but Big East? Who? There are no Football schools left in the BE.

[hoch21]

Right, ACC will only come after the AAC. That won't help UD at all, they take Lville, Memphis, UC and UCONN and there's not much left there and no reason to join. UDs only move will be to the Big East, all other moves won't be a good idea bc of football.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TerryK_67]

SLU, UD, Rich, VCU are in the drivers seat! Much like X was last year. The new Big Least need us, we don't need them! You all need to be careful what you ask for.... there will be no good coming from associating with that arrogant bunch! Just short term cash that will eventually dry up, and the cost will be our soul......
GO FLYERS!

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 SLU, UD, Rich, VCU are in the drivers seat! Much like X was last year. The new Big Least need us, we don't need them! You all need to be careful what you ask for.... there will be no good coming from associating with that arrogant bunch! Just short term cash that will eventually dry up, and the cost will be our soul...... GO FLYERS!

Ok, your post is reasonable, and I agree with you philosophically.

But, realistically, it is an ugly, dog eat dog world out there.

Everyone is totally out for themselves, there is no such thing as loyalty.

None of the A10 schools really, truly care about each other.

Any of the A10 schools would leave for the NBE in a heartbeat, and once SLU and Richmond or VCU leave, then the A10 isn't nearly as attractive of a conference.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, your post is reasonable, and I agree with you philosophically. But, realistically, it is an ugly, dog eat dog world out there. Everyone is totally out for themselves, there is no such thing as loyalty. None of the A10 schools really, truly care about each other. Any of the A10 schools would leave for the NBE in a heartbeat, and once SLU and Richmond or VCU leave, then the A10 isn't nearly as attractive of a conference.

We already sold our soul once with the Great Midwest in 1993. We bolted from the MCC even though we had just helped recruit Duquesne and LaSalle to the MCC. That charge was led by Jim O'Brien and Brother Raymond Fitz. We really are no different than any of the others even though I still like to think we are.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[ud2]

I don't know, I keep going back and forth in my mind on this, would it really be so bad if UD got left behind in the A10 without say SLU and VCU? It might not be so bad being one of the strongest programs in a 2-3 bid league.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Six NCAA 2014 bids minus SLU and VCU still equals four NCAA bids. Stay in the A10 please!

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Chris R]

The one piece that is probably not up for debate is UDs non-revenue sports would be significantly improved with a Big East move.

WBB - DePaul is a perennial Top-30 program. Nova Top-40.
MSOC - Creighton, GTown, and St. Johns are national powers
WSOC - Marquette is perennial Top-20, Gtown Top-30, Nova very good
VBALL - Nova? Cant be any worse than the A10
Track - Nova is a national power. Providence is near it.

The A10 does not have the top-end sizzle in terms of competition in most of these sports. Dayton would have to up its game to compete.

But Mens Hoops still drives the bus and as I said earlier, relationships matter most. What I think, and what I think will happen are two very very different things.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Six NCAA 2014 bids minus SLU and VCU still equals four NCAA bids. Stay in the A10 please!

I have no problem with staying in the A10, but the A10 without SLU and VCU does not get four bids. For starters, if we didn't beat SLU at the end of the season we may have been in the NIT.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Glen Clark]

Now, if St Joe's leaves the Flyers will be well neigh unstoppable.

___________________
Whether your glass is half empty or half full, you still have more to drink.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by KYFlyer The ACC is going to add schools because they are going to lose schools to the B1G, SEC, and Big 12. Assuming that Maryland gets their exit fee waived or severely reduced, you are going to see another round of movement that leaves the ACC needing teams which they will get from the AAC and Big East.

Major realignment is over, mainly thanks to the ACC Grant of Rights agreement. While all the speculation here is fun, it's largely unrealistic due to the agreement that the ACC and Big 12 are currently operating under. Basically, all teams in those 2 conferences have granted all of their TV rights to the conference for 10+ years, which means that even if they leave the conference, their current conference would continue to own their TV rights.

These agreements were intended to stop realignment, and pretty much have. So, sure the Big 12 and ACC may reach out and grow some more, but they won't be poaching from each other any time soon.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...e-realignment/