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View Poll Results: Grade the Recruitment class!
Top Notch 7 5.79%
Very Good (considering staff changes) 83 68.60%
Good (about what I expected) 24 19.83%
Fair (could’ve been better) 7 5.79%
Poor (will need to step it up next time) 0 0%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:07 PM
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Grade this Recruitment Class!

Well it appears all the staff is in place and has been very active. It also looks like we have all the recruits we are going to get for this cycle.

As some have written (UDBrian and UD62 in particular in another poll thread) considering ALL the things that have gone on (coaching and staff changes) de-commits and surprised signings we may be in a good situation as of right now.

So what do YOU think of this new group of recruits? As a whole what would you grade them?

Last edited by NJFlyr71; 05-18-2017 at 01:12 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:44 PM
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I will grade it in 4 or 5 years.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:44 PM
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We got length and shooting. A lot is going to hinge on how good of a game manager Jalen Crutcher becomes in a couple years (and possibly sooner if Crosby doesn't progress). I really like how athletic and long the class is that should really fit in well with CAG's pressure defensive scheme.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:53 PM
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Impossible to grade right now.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I will grade it in 4 or 5 years.
I don't think anyone is asking you to grade it based on results, the poll is looking to see how we rate the potential impact of the class based on the information available from all of the recruiting sources out there. It's no different than what the recruiting services do when they say a school had a top ## recruiting class this year. Of course we don't know if that's going to be the case or not but based on information right now you can judge how you think it is. If we had a class of all 2 star or not rated recruits vs. what we have with a few 3 stars I think most would be able to say one is better than the other. Have some fun and join in and take a stab at what you think of this recruiting class, its what we do on a message board. And no one is going to hold you to this vote four years from now...................................unless you're wrong.
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I don't think anyone is asking you to grade it based on results, the poll is looking to see how we rate the potential impact of the class based on the information available from all of the recruiting sources out there. It's no different than what the recruiting services do when they say a school had a top ## recruiting class this year. Of course we don't know if that's going to be the case or not but based on information right now you can judge how you think it is. If we had a class of all 2 star or not rated recruits vs. what we have with a few 3 stars I think most would be able to say one is better than the other. Have some fun and join in and take a stab at what you think of this recruiting class, its what we do on a message board. And no one is going to hold you to this vote four years from now...................................unless you're wrong.
You still can't grade it. How can you even grade "potential" as you state? Based on the offers/ lack of, the committed school(s) 1-2 were committed to, and maybe 2-3 that are real projects, I'd give it a thumbs down but I know that's not how it really works. After all, we can really only look at it on paper right now. Multiple kids don't play AAU, don't play in the AS games, therefore, and don't get ranked really high.

I think the false disclaimer here is that people are all excited that UD actually got real "bodies" in and we're really excited from that standpoint as we should be. The key is development and I don't think there's a person on this site that would question their development if Archie was still here because we saw lots of development. With AG, it's still TBD but I'm confident because I really like AG.

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  #7  
Old 05-18-2017, 03:50 PM
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We are strong at the wing and SG positions. I think the development of J Pierce and the PG's will determine our ability to "the premier post season tournament".
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
You still can't grade it. How can you even grade "potential" as you state? Based on the offers/ lack of, the committed school(s) 1-2 were committed to, and maybe 2-3 that are real projects, I'd give it a thumbs down but I know that's not how it really works. After all, we can really only look at it on paper right now. Multiple kids don't play AAU, don't play in the AS games, therefore, and don't get ranked really high.

I think the false disclaimer here is that people are all excited that UD actually got real "bodies" in and we're really excited from that standpoint as we should be. The key is development and I don't think there's a person on this site that would question their development if Archie was still here because we saw lots of development. With AG, it's still TBD but I'm confident because I really like AG.
Maybe whoever started the poll should not have said graded. They should have simply said something like what do you think about this recruiting class. Surely most people at least have an opinion on it. Maybe its not based on much but its probably there.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:24 PM
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As someone said once, 'Potential just means you haven't done anything yet'. Will let you know in 2021.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:24 PM
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We have a set of new players. Some are tall some are not so tall. Some are very long and athletic some not as long and athletic. You pick 'em how you want to see this group.

Yes they haven't done anything for UD yet (except sign a piece of paper). But just looking at what the group presents surely some opinion can be made and voted on.

If we signed 5 height challenged players they can be seen as very good OR poor depending upon other factors you as a poll voter can decide.

Since 3 of the individuals were Archie commits but are coming on even with CAG does it matter who the coach is? At least in this poll it is immaterial. 3 of the guys were either pretty good gets under Arch or they were not. Development aside what do you think of the group coming in as things stand now, today, using whatever information there is using whatever set of factors you choose.

Seems pretty simple but we should probably make it more difficult and complex so we can banter back and forth!

Happy off season!
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Impossible to grade right now.
Originally Posted by steve View Post
You still can't grade it. How can you even grade "potential" as you state? Based on the offers/ lack of, the committed school(s) 1-2 were committed to, and maybe 2-3 that are real projects, I'd give it a thumbs down but I know that's not how it really works. After all, we can really only look at it on paper right now. Multiple kids don't play AAU, don't play in the AS games, therefore, and don't get ranked really high.

I think the false disclaimer here is that people are all excited that UD actually got real "bodies" in and we're really excited from that standpoint as we should be. The key is development and I don't think there's a person on this site that would question their development if Archie was still here because we saw lots of development. With AG, it's still TBD but I'm confident because I really like AG.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:43 PM
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What is interesting is that the five recruits comprise a starting five--not counting Kostas.

I also like that Kostas, Svoboda and Obi are all atleast a year older than true freshmen.

Just based on what I've read so far, I think Svoboda and Kostas could provide the most help next year.

There is a lot we just don't know. Even if AM were still the coach next year's team would have been much different because it will not be a guard oriented team like the past 3-4 years. It's been a long time since UD has had so much height.

I think the D is going to have to carry the team next year. With the wingspan of XW, Kostas, and Obi, they could be very good. At the same time, this team will have a lot of big skinny guys that could get pushed around in the paint.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I think the D is going to have to carry the team next year. With the wingspan of XW, Kostas, and Obi, they could be very good. At the same time, this team will have a lot of big skinny guys that could get pushed around in the paint.
I just had a heart attack the first time I read through this and was about to call you a complete idiot for thinking Darrell Davis would have to carry this team. Upon second reading I realize you meant DEFENSE. That is a much more reasonable take.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I will grade it in 4 or 5 years.
lol, how can you possibly be wrong?

I am impressed with the job Anthony and his staff have done, much better than I expected considering the timing of Archie leaving. I wish we had more scholarships available next year but one of the ways to make recruiting easier is to have success on the court. Adding these players will help show the future recruits that the program is not on a decline.

And for everyone afraid to give it a grade with little info what is the worst thing that can happen. In three years from now someone digs up your old post and throws your opinions in your face. If that is the worst thing that can happen here I'm not afraid to say that right now I would give it a solid B and an A if you consider everything else that happened. Who would have thought that we could keep three good recruits and even add another big guy in all of this?

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Old 05-18-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
lol, how can you possibly be wrong?

I am impressed with the job Anthony and his staff have done, much better than I expected considering the timing of Archie leaving. I wish we had more scholarships available next year but one of the ways to make recruiting easier is to have success on the court. Adding these players will help show the future recruits that the program is not on a decline.
I'm actually happy we have a bunch of schollies to use for 2019... Ohio is loaded that year especially locally, which is really exciting.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
lol, how can you possibly be wrong?

I am impressed with the job Anthony and his staff have done, much better than I expected considering the timing of Archie leaving. I wish we had more scholarships available next year but one of the ways to make recruiting easier is to have success on the court. Adding these players will help show the future recruits that the program is not on a decline.
How can I be wrong? I didn't grade any of them. I've been repeatedly told on here to allow players like John Crosby and Darrell Davis time to develop before criticizing them. Now I choose to be patient and not jump to a conclusion and I get criticized. I simply can't win.

I know very little about these players beyond what has been written on this board about them and what are often pointless 2, 3, or 4 star rankings. I am also not into watching a bunch of grainy youtube videos against opponents I know nothing about the level of play I'm watching. That amount of info doesn't give me any clue if the recruiting class is good or not.

At least let me see the red/blue game before I decide that they either all suck or are future All Americans.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:54 PM
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I consider it a good thing that AG only has one (or two) scholarships to give next year. He is way behind on the trail for next year. Most of the AAU activity right now is identifying who in the soon to be Jr. Class is worth developing relationships with. AG can focus on a late bloomer who has high upside for 2018 and have his assistants scouring the next grade for targets for 2019.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:08 PM
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- Defensive minded point guard
- Talented SG
- Shooter
- Athletic big
- Rim protector

Pretty good recruitment class... especially considering the situation
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:22 AM
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I can only provide a "relative" grade, by comparing this year's incoming class to those that signed-on in the first year or 2 following our last 2 HC changes. Based on that comparison, I said this seems to be a pretty good class, given the circumstances. 3 of the previous regime's recruits decided to stay on, and the new staff was able to get 2 decent-looking additional recruits, including one at the position where we had the least depth.

I agree that, for a full assessment, see me in 2020. But for right now, all of our "returning" players are truly returning, and we got size, speed, and some shooting ability in the group of 5 newcomers. That, to me, is fairly encouraging.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:56 AM
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My comments on asking everyone to grade the recruiting class right now were a little harsh. It is interesting that these things come down to personality type. I was told by my IBM manager that I was a "wild duck" and at one time IBM got rid of their wild ducks because they didn't want to toe the company line

Hope I didn't offend anyone!
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I bet you're the life of every party.

I only party but don't do party's...

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Old 05-19-2017, 08:03 AM
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"Development aside what do you think of the group coming in as things stand now, today, using whatever information there is using whatever set of factors you choose".


To answer your question, I think they were good "high school players" who are bigger, longer, stronger, and faster than many of their teammates.ZERO idea what that means going forward. How's that for your assessment?
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:05 AM
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OMG steve stop digging the hole you're in!

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Old 05-19-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
OMG steve stop digging the hole your in!
That would be "you're" in.......WEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
To answer your question, I think they were good "high school players" who are bigger, longer, stronger, and faster than many of their teammates.ZERO idea what that means going forward. How's that for your assessment?
steve, guess what? Most recruits are high school players playing against questionable competition, most possessing highlight tape of all the good stuff and none of the bad.

So everyone has zero idea what that means going forward. It's a game we all play (making judgement's on players). SO at least you presented an assessment and after all that was what this thread was asking participants to do.

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Old 05-19-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
How can I be wrong? I didn't grade any of them. I've been repeatedly told on here to allow players like John Crosby and Darrell Davis time to develop before criticizing them. Now I choose to be patient and not jump to a conclusion and I get criticized. I simply can't win.

I know very little about these players beyond what has been written on this board about them and what are often pointless 2, 3, or 4 star rankings. I am also not into watching a bunch of grainy youtube videos against opponents I know nothing about the level of play I'm watching. That amount of info doesn't give me any clue if the recruiting class is good or not.

At least let me see the red/blue game before I decide that they either all suck or are future All Americans.
The poll is to grade the recruiting class is it not? Just an opinion poll...not an SAT exam! In 4-5 years the poll can be "grade the graduating class". Heck, then we can compare polls!
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I just had a heart attack the first time I read through this and was about to call you a complete idiot for thinking Darrell Davis would have to carry this team. Upon second reading I realize you meant DEFENSE. That is a much more reasonable take.
ABOUT to call me a complete idiot? That's OK. I've lived through teenage children years and have been called worse. I've grown much smarter as they get older. Are there any better sounding words than "you were right dad about <fill in the blank> X years ago"

Last edited by springborofan; 05-19-2017 at 10:05 AM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I consider it a good thing that AG only has one (or two) scholarships to give next year. He is way behind on the trail for next year. Most of the AAU activity right now is identifying who in the soon to be Jr. Class is worth developing relationships with. AG can focus on a late bloomer who has high upside for 2018 and have his assistants scouring the next grade for targets for 2019.
If this was football recruiting I would definitely agree, but basketball recruiting tends to start much later. Most players really don't start getting recruited a lot until the summer before their senior year. Obviously the elite players and some players that teams identify as their top targets get started a little sooner. The main signing period for MBB is the spring, so that allows the process to start a little later.

Also, while AG has been in the NBA the last 2 seasons, all of his assistants were at the college level and for the most part, recruiting around the same level of players UD would typically go after. Kane and Greer would have been recruiting guys typically at the low end of who UD recruits and Solomon would have been recruiting players at the higher end of who UD would target.

Finally, AG has not been out of the game that long. While the players have changed, many of the coaches and players involved in recruiting are still at the places they were when AG was recruiting last. He should have no problem reaching out to former contacts to get scoops on this coming up class. Just look at the 2 new recruits he signed. UD was not in on either, and obviously he was not recruiting them before, but he was able to land those players in just a few weeks of being on the job.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:01 AM
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Times have changed in recruiting for all sports.Relationships are starting well before their senior years in basketball, too, and have been. If you don't get in early with these kids you're just another number and you have alot of ground to make up..Recruiting is all about relationships with most schools. Sure, if an Ohio State offer comes late to an established Ohio kid then all the leg work a guy like Archie at UD, or whomever, did means nothing if that kid's heart is with the state school.

Archie was a master at getting in on kids early and making an impression and staying on them. I agree that AG has not been out of the game long and still knows many of the same AAU coaches and the fertile high schools/high school coaches he's worked with..

Last edited by steve; 05-19-2017 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Times have changed in recruiting for all sports.Relationships are starting well before their senior years in basketball, too, and have been. If you don't get in early with these kids you're just another number and you have alot of ground to make up..Recruiting is all about relationships with most schools. Sure, if an Ohio State offer comes late to an established Ohio kid then all the leg work a guy like Archie at UD, or whomever, did means nothing if that kid's heart is with the state school.

Archie was a master at getting in on kids early and making an impression and staying on them. I agree that AG has not been out of the game long and still knows many of the same AAU coaches and the fertile high schools/high school coaches he's worked with..
I agree that they are starting to recruit kids earlier, but we are not nearly as behind on the recruiting trail as you describe. All 3 assistants, as well as Hertz, had roles where they recruited or helped identify recruits at their past positions. As far as we know, they already built up relationships with quite a few players. And while it's good to get in on a player early, the heavy duty part of recruiting players is still the summer before their senior year.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Times have changed in recruiting for all sports.Relationships are starting well before their senior years in basketball, too, and have been. If you don't get in early with these kids you're just another number and you have alot of ground to make up..Recruiting is all about relationships with most schools. Sure, if an Ohio State offer comes late to an established Ohio kid then all the leg work a guy like Archie at UD, or whomever, did means nothing if that kid's heart is with the state school.

Archie was a master at getting in on kids early and making an impression and staying on them. I agree that AG has not been out of the game long and still knows many of the same AAU coaches and the fertile high schools/high school coaches he's worked with..
While I agree that building relationships is important and the longer the relationship the better. AG seems to have done ok with the two new recruits that he had no relationship with. It can be done on short notice as AG has shown, but as you say longer term relationships are a positive.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:32 PM
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M21eagle, My point was that it's easier to hit three to five kids hard (for one or two spots) for this upcoming year while developing longer term relationships for three or four openings the following year.

And, I think you are mistaken on the timing. It seems like in the past five to ten years the fall signing period is much more active--especially for the players UD tends to chase. It is true that many of the bluest chips are waiting until spring to see where the one and done spots will open up but I don't consider that to be UD's target market.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
M21eagle, My point was that it's easier to hit three to five kids hard (for one or two spots) for this upcoming year while developing longer term relationships for three or four openings the following year.

And, I think you are mistaken on the timing. It seems like in the past five to ten years the fall signing period is much more active--especially for the players UD tends to chase. It is true that many of the bluest chips are waiting until spring to see where the one and done spots will open up but I don't consider that to be UD's target market.
Players cannot even take official visits until their senior year. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying teams aren't laying groundwork before a player's junior season is over, but the full-court press (Pun intended) is not until the summer before their senior year. That is when they pick up communication with their targets, that is when they make more visits with their targets, and that is when majority of the work is done.

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Old 05-19-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Players cannot even take official visits until their senior year. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying teams aren't laying groundwork before a player's junior season is over, but the full-court blitz (Pun intended) is not until the summer before their senior year. That is when they pick up communication with their targets, that is when they make more visits with their targets, and that is when majority of the work is done.
The officials are after the relationship and the hardwork has been established..Just look at Archie Miller.....Every one of the recent UD kids he recruited but the foreign player signed in Nov. 2016. Those relationships started well before the previous summer and most early in their junior years and some earlier.I believe Mckinley Wright (I may be wrong here) spoke that Miller and UD had established their relationship and recruiting before his junior year..

You can call it the "full-court blitz" or whatever but the beginning relationships of most all these kids with the UD coaches and the relationship building was planted well before last summer..

You are committing coaching suicide if you're not out recruiting these kids in their soph/junior years.With all the media exposure now, all the tech advances in communication, all the AS games, and all the AAU tourneys it's become a feeding frenzy for coaches. While it's not totally obsolete, the days of really recruiting a kid right in his HS backyard is evaporating.....Going to an AS game or an AAU tournament gives a school a chance to look at dozens and dozens of players in one weekend.

Last edited by steve; 05-19-2017 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:43 AM
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