Papish - is she where you expected ?

UDSpud · #1 09-08-2019, 06:19 PM

I am out in Idaho and don't see game action. I can only respond to game comments and statistics.

As of 9-7-2019 statistics on the Dayton Flyers website for Women's Volleyball, I see Papish with an attack percentage of .103 and only 6 less errors than Peterson with 96 less ta's than Peterson.

Am I expecting too much from her as a sophomore? Is there too much pressure on her to be the next Lauren Bruns? Is she playing Left side or right side?

These records also show the team as having 13 more ta's and 6 more k's than
our opponents as of 9-7-2019.

Am I wrong to have expected more out of this team YTD?

Also, in football terms, is defense or offense the problem?

BeckysTXA · #2 09-08-2019, 08:39 PM

I think Alli had a great freshman year and has maybe gotten off to a little bit of a slower start this season. But she is going to be wicked good before she is done.

Generally from all the OHs - and the MBs when they attack from the right (like on a slide for example), I haven’t seen a hitter that can execute the sharp cut shot that cuts the ball horizontally along the net and it lands at the 10’ line or inside it closer to the net. Kray, Alaina, Lauren and as far back as Megan Campbell and Becky Novacek running slides from the middle position - all these players could do that, but it took until their junior years to perfect it. Alli and Jamie are sophomores. We are starting to run the middles slides again this year - so I expect this part of the game will get better as the season progresses.

Alli did score down the line several times this weekend. That to is a hard shot. Cross court is the easiest. Peterson started hitting some of the far back corners. It takes some time to get use to the college block and back row defenders and to “see” the shots and learn to execute them. I think Alli was ahead of any freshman hitter we’ve had in the past, so I expect she will be after her sophomore season too.

BeckysTXA · #3 09-08-2019, 08:57 PM

As far as the team goes, I think the team expected more out of itself to this point, but I’m confident they are working to make up ground starting this weekend in MO. They’ve taken some hard punches, but IMO, their is only one match they “should” have won and that’s TXAM. That’s the one I want back.

I look at the other close matches as we were in position to win some other matches but couldn’t finish them off. The MI match showed they are starting to learn how to do that. Time will tell if they can do it consistently. We still have KS St, tOSU, and Cincy in OOC. Plus an improved SLU team twice and VCU once. And then probably a just as hard challenge...to sweep the other teams because we have the talent that those matches should not be close. If we can do that, this team will be ready to make a run.

But I think it’s fair we are a little behind where we thought this team would be. Let’s see how quickly they can make up ground.

UDVBFan · #4 09-08-2019, 09:15 PM

This team is a new team with some acclimating challenges like many teams. There are players who have to step up, and there's a new dynamic with Jamie being 'the girl'. Whether it's women's volleyball or the NFL, there are adjustments to be made and not all of them are physical. This team is being thrown into the fire early, and are playing pretty darn well against some heady competition. Learning to win against teams you aren't supposed to beat is a real thing, and when you're unranked and playing ranked teams, you aren't 'supposed' to win those. I was really interested to see how the girls responded to the Florida loss and wasn't totally surprised to see the outcome. Would have loved a different outcome but hopefully they're beginning to believe they can be really, really good and can play with literally anyone. Once they believe (like Neo in the Matrix), I think some of these early season losses could turn into late season/NCAA tourney victories.

Lots of promise for this very talented but young team. It should be fun watching them become who they will become.

Chris R · #5 09-08-2019, 09:23 PM

It's also tough as fans at times to avoid the temptation of grading out frosh and sophos against recent juniors andseniors. We are very young and green in spots. Growing pains and inconsistency are part of it. They arent going to learn to overcome it by sitting on pine. Expect more peaks and valleys but the potential is there to be among the best teams ever in 1-2 seasons.

keats '91 · #6 09-09-2019, 07:41 AM

Specific to Alli, I know the stats are less than desired. But I thought she was clear #2 attacker against Mich. And when the team was playing best, she was leading the charge. Consistency may be lacking, but she is not far off where we all want her. Alli and Peterson are going to be a very nice combo in the very near future.

ud69 · #7 09-09-2019, 03:22 PM

Well, from the play-by-play when the chips were down at 4-4 in the 5th against Michigan:

Peterson ace (5-4)
Peterson ace (6-4)
Papesh kill (7-4)
Peterson ace (8-4)
Papesh kill (9-4)
Papesh kill (10-4)
Peterson ace (11-4)
Bad set Westbeld (11-5)
Papesh kill (12-5)

Of the 15 Dayton points in the 5th set-
Peterson 4 aces
Peterson 3 kills
Papesh 5 kills
Michigan 3 errors

Seems Papesh stepped up big time in that crucial 5th set.

udisit19 · #8 09-09-2019, 03:52 PM

The offense has drastically changed, so I think there is still lots of room for the offense to improve.

Regarding Alli Papesh, I thought she played well against Michigan. Her block was very good. I think on at least 2 of her blocks she went up with Dubay, but Alli got all of the ball. Maybe Dubay's long arms convinced the attacker to swing towards Alli, but Alli did all the blocking.

Papesh was a beast in the 5th against Michigan! Papesh made some great placement decisions in the 5th. She saw a high block, put the ball over it or right off the tips of it towards the deep left corner for a kill to get Dayton's 7th point. Papesh tipped a ball over the block for UD's 9th point. Then next point in the set, Papesh found a gap in the block for UD's 10th point. For UD's 12th point Papesh split the block again. And for UD's 13th point Alli tooled the block. 5th set had great serving from Jamie, but great front row attacking from Alli.

On the 15th point alone, Alli had a good serve to get Michigan out of system, took a swing from the back row that again kept Michigan out of system, and made the final dig/pass to set up Jaime.

I think the Flyers need to fine tune that classic middle attack. Maybe they have focused two much attention adding the slide, but the offense needs to diversify the attack a little more.

Rachel Fara deserves some serious credit too. She filled in well. Lets hope Sierra is fine and will be playing soon. Rachel made good decisions. Played well even when out of system. If both Rachel and Sierra are healthy, Fara made a strong case for playing time.

BeckysTXA · #9 09-10-2019, 09:19 AM

This is good to “hear”. Leadership within the team stepping up to turn this thing around. Go Brooke and Bridget. In the past TH has leaned heavy on both his Liberos and Setters to lead. Great to see.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...mpression=true

maddog07 · #10 10-06-2019, 08:55 PM

At this juncture, very much a disappointment.
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UDSpud · #11 10-20-2019, 04:54 PM

Looks like she is improving, but also getting less minutes.

Does anyone know if Brooke Westbeld is injured?

Lifelong Flyer Fan · #12 10-21-2019, 08:31 AM

I read somewhere that Brooke had shoulder (?) surgery in the off season. She was at about 80% and they were now resting her shoulder. Perhaps so she gain get closer to 100% to play in tougher matches and the A10 tourney.

maddog07 · #13 11-17-2019, 06:08 PM

No question after today—
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UDSpud · #14 11-24-2019, 05:51 PM

Ali - way to finish your A-10 year, especially the final tournament game.

I did not "see" the game, but either VCU keyed on Peterson or she had an off game, so thanks for stepping up. Also a shout out to Sierra Pla on a great game as a senior on helping Dayton to an NCAA tournament bid.

Lifelong Flyer Fan · #15 11-24-2019, 05:59 PM

Spud, I'm no VB expert but what I saw was that Horsman adjusted the offense to give more sets to other hitters. Jamie had a fine game. Sierra Pla was on the All Tourney team as was Maura Collins the Libero. They all played well. (Papish had some physical issues this year.)

keats '91 · #16 11-24-2019, 06:18 PM

Watched the match on TV (ESPN+). And have been to handful of games this year. Today was the best swings Alli has taken all year. She was pounding the ball. And not placing it, rolling it, etc.

Actually the entire team seemed very engaged compared to 'normal'.
Not going to lie... I had some doubts. But they competed very well. Cant wait to see who they get in the NCAA...and hope it's close.

ud69 · #17 11-24-2019, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by keats '91

Cant wait to see who they get in the NCAA...and hope it's close.

PSU again?

BeckysTXA · #18 11-24-2019, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by ud69

PSU again?

Who knows...but I was look8ng at this last week. I think Texas will have 4 teams hosting - out of 16. That kind of leaves the East and South East shorter than usual. Pitt, PSU, KY, FL.

The East usually has a high number of auto bid conference winner. So I’m thinking UD might be sent to the Midwest - Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin. There are so many teams that get in from the Big 10. They cannot play each other the first two rounds...so I’m thinking one of the three. Marquette and Creighton might be in the hosting mix, but they will send Big10, SEC, ACC team there. We can also end up in TX. Hawaii might also host this year, for those of you who couldn’t make it this week.

maddog07 · #19 11-24-2019, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by UDSpud

Ali - way to finish your A-10 year, especially the final tournament game.

I did not "see" the game, but either VCU keyed on Peterson or she had an off game, so thanks for stepping up. Also a shout out to Sierra Pla on a great game as a senior on helping Dayton to an NCAA tournament bid.

Clearly the difference today was a broader offense. We’ were not so overly dependent on Jamie to take all the big shots. A shame it took so long to figure this out, but being a one woman team held us back before.
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BeckysTXA · #20 11-25-2019, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by maddog07

Clearly the difference today was a broader offense. We’ were not so overly dependent on Jamie to take all the big shots. A shame it took so long to figure this out, but being a one woman team held us back before.
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I’m going to add a little perspective here.

First, the left Outside hitter position on any team, will get the most swings because of the position they play. Occasionally in a match here and there, some other position gets mores, but that’s the exception, not the rule. The reason for this is when the pass to the setter is “off” and the setter has to go get the ball somewhere on the court, she can’t run an offense to the middles or right side. So the setter has to go to the left OH, or if there is a back row attacker on the court, they might be a second option. That’s why Jordan Albarran stepping up her game late in the season was so critical...she gave the setter a second option sometimes when we were out of system with an errand pass. Against VCU that was only 4 swings, but she scored on half of them as the defense was cheating over to JPete thinking she would get the set because we were out of system. The same goes for Alli only then JPete is the backrow hitter.

Brings me to my second point...JPete is our only 6 rotation player. She never leaves the court. She hits from the front and back rows. All other hitters only go 3 rotations. This fact adds to JPete’s swing totals.

Third...JPete is our best hitter. When the setter is in system because the pass is good, and she can go to any of her hitters, if the defense has not committed to take away a hitter (ie cheated over) then you go with your best hitter until the defense stops you.

Fourth...our other hitters were working hard to make sure they were transitioned and “available” to their setter. I don’t remember what hitter said that this year when I asked what they were working on to get better, but the answer was to be available to the setter more often. Here is an example of what that means. By the time the pass is almost to the setter, If MB Amelia Moore has not come down off her block attempt, run back away from the net, around her setter, and is headed right towards the pin, she is not available for the setter to deliver a slide attack set. If Moore is still in front of the setter when the setter gets the ball, the slide set to Moore is off the table and the setter has to go to someone else.

VCU was cheating over to stop Jamie. It was one of the reasons they could not get blocks at their normal pace...they were cheating over to take away or stop Jamie and when our passing was solid, our setters went away from the block. And our passing was very solid most of the match. We did not have stretches of bad passing. That opens up your Offensive options. Also of note, as the match went on, and Pla from the right a lot, and also our middles were having success, VCUs block/game plan wasn’t working, so they were forced to change it, especially in the 4th set, and they picked up 4 of their 11 blocks that set. They stopped cheating over to stop Jamie.

Jamie only hit negative the first set. All other sets she was converting her swings well and dug herself out of a big negative hitting percentage. And we adjusted our game plan once we figured out what VCU was doing to load up against JPete.

In the first match against VCU last week, JPete took 42% of our swings. Nobody “wants” to do that. It wasn’t a matter of figuring out not to do that. It was we had to get better in other parts of the game so we didnt HAVE to do that. Our passing had to be good a greater percentage of the time and not have bad stretches where we couldn’t buy a good pass. Our other hitters had to get better at being available so the setter could go to them. All that came together on Sunday, which is why it was our best performance this season.

Glen Clark · #21 11-25-2019, 08:56 AM

Side note: It's a shame how somebody comes on a thread after the Flyer's biggest win of the season and starts shaming . . .

". . . A shame it took so long to figure this out, but being a one woman team held us back before."

Clueless.

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

keats '91 · #22 11-25-2019, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Glen Clark

Side note: It's a shame how somebody comes on a thread after the Flyer's biggest win of the season and starts shaming . . .

". . . A shame it took so long to figure this out, but being a one woman team held us back before."

Clueless.

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

I think you are looking at this wrong. The fact that Maddog is commenting on a volleyball thread speaks to the heights which the volleyball program has attained.

UD62 · #23 11-25-2019, 11:22 AM

Ignore is a wonderful thing until someone quotes. Why you guys entertain this guy is beyond me, always negative and bashing individual players. It's a free country and and the internet so any opinion is allowable, no matter how ignorant.

Chris R · #24 11-25-2019, 12:50 PM

Had we not served so many balls to JPete this year, Dayton would not have been in the A10 Title game. She was the hand that fed us all year and until yesterday we couldnt afford to give a ton of her touches to others as they had been so inconsistent.

Last night VCU took her away, others got her touches, and they capitalized. Something had to happen against VCU that had not happened all year for us to get a win against the kind of opponent we lost to on almost all occasions (sans Michigan). We got that yesterday -- something new. In terms of strategy and execution.

BeckysTXA · #25 11-25-2019, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by keats '91

I think you are looking at this wrong. The fact that Maddog is commenting on a volleyball thread speaks to the heights which the volleyball program has attained.

This is such a valid observation!

I will say this, and I’ve observed it for several years now, women wanted Title IX. They wanted all the advantages and benefits and a level opportunity like the men had. But I don’t think “society” has come full circle in equal opportunity and equal good and bad...and I’m not talking about benefits. I’m talking about how fans are less inclined to criticize a female athlete’s performance publicly versus a male athletes. Across all media, fan forums, ESPN, local news, etc. Somehow it seems like there is an unwritten rule you don’t criticize our daughters. No problem with our sons.

Not sure if that’s right, wrong or ok. And, it may change in the next few years, but right now “society” seems to still have on kid-gloves with the girls.

Avid Flyer · #26 11-25-2019, 02:05 PM

My hats off to jpete. Having a baby can have many side affects inhibiting ones athletic ability. With being a mom and two years off the court she came back stronger than ever. Didn't happen by accident. Hard work an dedication paid off, and she's only a soph. A mature one for sure but far from being done. Jpete All American

BeckysTXA · #27 11-25-2019, 02:20 PM

Ok...back on topic.

I’m doing my best Figgie123 intimidation today. Looked up season percentages for attempts with the base hitters that played this weekend and the percentages from the VCU match a week ago (a loss) and for the championship

Alli - pretty much the same across the board.
17.1 season - 16.5 VCU 1 - 16.9 VCU 2

Olivia - almost the same. Liv hits the low quick set in front of the setter.
7.5 season - 4.4 #1 - 7.5 #2

Jamie - interesting
35.4 season - 42.4 #1 - 24.7 #2
I’m sure Horsmon had this plan all along...did JPete’s 42% of the offense in the first match suck VCU into thinking they had to change their defense and cheat over to stop JPete on the right pin during the 2nd match. JPete is good enough to beat the block most of the time, and if they cheated over it caused them to be a step slow getting to our right side attack...which is where the overflow sets not going to JPete went.

Amelia - 60% more - most of these are slides at the right pin
10.5 season - 10.8 #1 - 16.5 #2

Sierra - 300% more - all from the right pin
6.3 season - 10.1 #1 - 19.2 #2

maddog07 · #28 11-26-2019, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Glen Clark

Side note: It's a shame how somebody comes on a thread after the Flyer's biggest win of the season and starts shaming . . .
[I][COLOR="DarkRed"]
". . . A shame it took so long to figure this out, but being a one woman team held us back before."[/

Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

You Must have missed the match vs Louisville, or Florida, and Ohio State- oh and Cincinnati or Texas A&M and Missouri. Largely we got schooled by high end teams while we fed one girl almost exclusively. She’s great and absolutely destroyed the weaklings that’s comprise 90 % of the A10. Yet it was only in the conference championship game that we spread the ball around to finally beat VCU. Maybe a lesson learned.
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BeckysTXA · #29 12-04-2019, 03:04 PM

A few answers to Alli’s season. At this point woulda, coulda, shoulda is moot. The next match is all that matters. “Finishing Strong - The 2019 Alli Papesh Story”

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33607