Deveroes Results

Fudd · #1 06-20-2008, 03:48 PM

OK, let's get all of the standard sayings that go with this inevitable thread out of the way.

"Summer league results mean nothing."

"This does not reflect basketball at the division 1 level."

"Too much run and gun, not enough defense."

http://www.greatercincinnatisportswo...17-Game_3.html

Deveroes is notorious for having scewed up box scores, but am I to believe that London hit some 3 pointers? Like, maybe 3 of 4?

http://www.greatercincinnatisportswo...sults__07.html

Figgie123 · #2 06-20-2008, 04:11 PM

Looks that way to me. If they would wrap the boxscores in a PRE block, it would look nicer:

[html]
TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
15 PENNO, Jeff......... * 1-4 1-2 0-0 0 1 1 3 3 0 0 0 1 19
22 WARREN, London...... * 9-14 3-4 3-4 1 2 3 1 24 3 2 1 1 26

05 JOHNSON, Marcus..... * 5-15 0-1 4-6 1 2 3 3 14 5 1 2 0 29
03 PERRY, Mickey....... 5-7 2-4 3-3 2 1 3 0 15 0 2 0 0 29

21 LITTLE, Charles..... 2-4 0-0 2-2 2 0 2 0 6 0 0 0 0 17
[/html]

So, of these 4 guys, we hit 8 of 9 free throws. Nice. (Looks like Charles started, but they don't have a '*' next to his name, and Mickey didn't start, as he is listed 6th in the box score.)

(And I couldn't figure out a way to get to the June 15th box scores...)

John

[Edited to add Marcus Johnson in nice format. Thanks bosoxrule for catching that...)

Wings In Stripes · #3 06-20-2008, 04:21 PM

Jeff Penno doesn't play for UD anymore.

and if that really is the line for London, then he must be doing some major work this offseason. I don't care if they don't play defense in the league the way London's stroke was last year he couldn't hit 3 of 4 threes in a game if he was the only one on the court.

Bill McPeek · #4 06-20-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Wings In Stripes

Jeff Penno doesn't play for UD anymore.

and if that really is the line for London, then he must be doing some major work this offseason. I don't care if they don't play defense in the league the way London's stroke was last year he couldn't hit 3 of 4 threes in a game if he was the only one on the court.

My thoughts exactly! Is there another London Warren we don't know about?
9-14 from the field, 3-4 from beyond the arc (the NEW arc, I presume) and 3-4 from the foul line! Can this be right?

bosoxrule · #5 06-20-2008, 05:56 PM

........................................FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
05 JOHNSON, Marcus..... * 5-15 0-1 4-6 1 2 3 3 14 5 1 2 0 29

San Diego Flyer · #6 06-20-2008, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wings In Stripes

Jeff Penno doesn't play for UD anymore.

and if that really is the line for London, then he must be doing some major work this offseason. I don't care if they don't play defense in the league the way London's stroke was last year he couldn't hit 3 of 4 threes in a game if he was the only one on the court.

We all know he has a lousy stroke. It was pretty obvious he did not have the green light from 3pt this season. Maybe he is good at picking his spots. Maybe he has worked on it. But he hit 4/8 his Freshman year, and 1/2 his Soph. Now he goes 3/4.

Somehow he "wills" them into the jar. It would be best that we all root for his improvement 'cause he is going to start at pg.

AdamtheFlyer · #7 06-20-2008, 06:58 PM

The only results that matter is the injury column.

Seriously, you can't analyze what happens in these events. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's said a lot.

Doesn't make it untrue.

Fudd · #8 06-20-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Fudd

OK, let's get all of the standard sayings that go with this inevitable thread out of the way.

"Summer league results mean nothing."

"This does not reflect basketball at the division 1 level."

"Too much run and gun, not enough defense."

http://www.greatercincinnatisportswo...17-Game_3.html

Deveroes is notorious for having scewed up box scores, but am I to believe that London hit some 3 pointers? Like, maybe 3 of 4?

http://www.greatercincinnatisportswo...sults__07.html

Some additions to the disclaimers:

"The only results that matter is the injury column."

"Seriously, you can't analyze what happens in these events."

I love quoting myself.......

AdamtheFlyer · #9 06-20-2008, 07:44 PM

Mocking is for children. I'm not a child. Don't disrespect me again.

But hey, if you want to pour over box scores of pick up games with refs, be my guest. When London Warren still can't shoot at the D-1 level in November, maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the game of basketball.

Fudd · #10 06-20-2008, 07:49 PM

I think it is healthy to warn posters of the dangers of analyzing Deveroes results. This is for our own good. I intend to compile a whole list of disclaimers that can be attached to any Deveroes thread.

San Diego Flyer · #11 06-20-2008, 08:37 PM

All those disclaimer aside, since the scores and boxes are in the public domain I would rather click and read 3 for 4, than 0 for 6.

What is that investment disclaimer GAZOO? Something like, "Past results are not to be construed as a guarantee of future performance"?

If it bothers you that much, simply don't read it.

UDBrian · #12 06-20-2008, 09:34 PM

I would prefer the players weren't playing in this league, BUT if London really was
9-14 and 3-4 from three that is encouraging. I also remember reports of Charles shooting threes last year so I am a little leary.

daytonflyers · #13 06-21-2008, 01:40 PM

you are right adam, london might still be lousy shooting come D1 time. but does that mean it isnt a good thing that he shot 3-4 in this game?

would it have "mattered" if he went 0-6? i bet the same people downplaying deveroes would be ripping london if that was his line

Fudd · #14 06-21-2008, 06:20 PM

Today's Deveroes Report:

London Warren: I think London went something like 3-3 at Deveroes from 3pt land today. And 1-6 from the line. He arrived with something like 5 minutes left in the first half and then scored about 24 points, mostly off of runners, and dribble penetratrion, but some off of jumpers, and the jumpers were falling. Those three pointers were with guys right in his face as well. He did not do well from the line and had a few turnovers, but he was the designated pointguard for his team, and he handled it well. He seems to thrive in the unorganized streetball that is Deveroes. He has a ton of confidence that he can take anyone off the dibble, and most of his attempts end in a floater from 10 feet or a lay-up. He really uses his leaping ability when he gets close to the rim. He had one of his patented "block-from-behind" rejections against Dante Jackson, who was playing on the OHC team with Mickey Perry. And it was one of those that got rejected out of bounds after a wind-up. The announcer calls him the "Jacksonville Jet" sometimes, and kept saying, "Someone needs to stop this guy. He's on fire."
London even hit a 3 pointer after a whistled time-out, and it went down with a swish, so I am getting more and more convinced that he could be at least a decent shooter for us. I think he is still struggling at the line because he doesn't use his legs for power in his set-shot. When he shoots from the field, it is a leaping shot. From the line, he flicks the ball with his arms.

Mickey Perry: Mickey arrived after half-time, and ended up scoring about 12 pts. It seemed to take him a bit of time to get into the flow of the game. He hit at least 1 three pointer, and had several "and-1" drives to the hoop. He has more dribble penetration ability than I have seen him demonstrate in the past. I thought he would be almost exclusively a spot up shooter, but I think his game is well-rounded offensively.

I didn't see any other Flyers there besides walk-ons.

I saw Adrion Graves, Dante Jackson, and Derrick Brown from Xavier play. I'll write a bit about them later. Expect to see some technical fouls on Dante Jackson throughout his career at Xavier. The Deveroes refs are very lenient, and he got them to call a technical on him today.

The UC Slats team looked good. Yancy Gates, the freshman for UC is monstrously large and has a whole lot of athleticism for his size.

Canonball · #15 06-21-2008, 08:02 PM

Playing against stringent defense London has learned during his Deveroes experience to play under control and run an offense. Included in the education is the following skill set:

Inbounds passing under duress
Ball handling under pressure
Free throw shooting
Reduction of circus act shots

Before you shoot back please acknowledge that 50% of this I put up in jest. I sincerely hope that LW is working on his game in the areas needed.

Flyer 86 · #16 06-21-2008, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by UDBrian

I would prefer the players weren't playing in this league, BUT if London really was
9-14 and 3-4 from three that is encouraging. I also remember reports of Charles shooting threes last year so I am a little leary.

ditto. charles played well and was shooting from outside. Perry had like 2 20 point games. only player that held up i believe was Marcus. think he had like 3 games of 18-24 points on like 60% shooting.

Fudd · #17 06-21-2008, 08:10 PM

Actually, the other team put some pressure on London, and was pressing full court occasionally. London did very well with the pressure, IMO. London is too quick for somone to get right up in his face on the perimeter. Every time the other team did that, London when right around his man with some nifty dribbling. It was a bit strange, because he validated the perimter pressure by nailing a bunch of 3's. The free throws still need lots of work. You don't see many set inbounds plays in this league. The intensity of the defense on the inbounds isn't very good, so there isn't a lot of drama getting the ball in play.

I think London is at his best with the hanging runners and lay-ups. There is no zone defense allowed in this league, and they actually call defensive warnings for guys lagging off their men too much. That opens driving lanes for the slashers like London.

This league suits London's abilities. He is a great 1 on 1 player, and very good in the open court. And that is what you get here, not a lot of great team play or set plays. London is a very, very confident player in this league. The way that the dynamics of Deveroes seem to favor an athletic slasher, London seems to have a scorers mentality in these games as a result.

Let me put it this way, London was one of the more effective guys on the floor during his playing time. Maybe the most effective guy. But the Deveroes is very different from an NCAA game. I was still impressed with what he was able to do.

Chris R · #18 06-21-2008, 08:47 PM

Deveroes is like your side mirror on your car. Massive distortion. Objects in Deveroes may be larger than they appear.

Fudd · #19 06-21-2008, 09:12 PM

I don't think there is anything too special about 20 pt performances at Deveroes. It seems every decent player from UD or Xavier has them occasionally. The fun is in watching how it happens and all of the other details, IMO. The competition varies wildly from team to team and day to day depending on who shows up as well. Some of the teams are pretty bad. So you really have to see who they are playing against in order to soak it in properly. I do enjoy watching some of the better players match-up against one another. There is a lot more freedom to experiment with their games than you are used to seeing in the very structured atmosphere of division 1 games. So, yes it distorts the results you would see in a division 1 game. But on the other hand, you get to see capabilities of players that would not see otherwise. It gives you some insight that you might not normally get.

Bill Edwards, who was a star at Wright State so many years ago, is still a fine player at his age. He is on the same team with Derrick Brown.

It was interesting watching Brown. He tried to overpower his man by driving to the hoop from the perimeter on nearly every touch. It looked like he was trying to drive right through his defender, and the arms would get all tangled up. He didn't have very much success scoring that way. I think he still lacks a bit of strength that could make him dominating. When a defender was physical with him, he missed or coughed up the ball. He did score 20, but most were fast break or free throws, it seems. He could be a great player, but he does not play strong enough inside yet, IMO. He needs some type of move in a half court offense. He did a bit of whining and wincing at the refs after he thought he was fouled a few times. He is either trying to work on taking his defender to the hoop off the dribble, or he believes he can do that all the time. He had a few huge dunks on breaks.

Adrion Graves was hitting everything in warm-ups. He is a fine shooter, especially in between games. I'm not sure what to think of him yet. He got to the line quite a bit, and is an excellent free throw shooter. Adrion has a brother who is a mini-version of him. The facial resemblance is uncanny. His brother is a good shooter also, but much smaller.

Dante Jackson didn't have a very good effort in the game I watched. I don't recall him hitting anything from outside. He had a few nice drives. Like I said above, he seemed to get a little aggravated, and then got a technical called on him for pointing and clapping at somebody in the crowd after he made a shot, I think. I can't be sure of the reason for the technical because I didn't hear if he said anything. Somehow, I think his emotions got the better of him briefly. I saw a few passes from him that impressed me. I think that will be a good part of his game.

One of the old-timers / legends from Loyola of Chicago, I think, complains to the refs so much, it is almost comical. He did complain his way to 30pts though.

As for the distortion of Deveroes results, I think most occurs when people look at the box scores without having witnessed the games in person. Who takes the shots, depends on who shows up on the team and who the most aggressive personality is. And like I said, this league favors certain skill sets. It is a mix of street ball, and semi-organized practice. Players seem to feel the social pressure from the crowd and other players to perform the spectacular, rather than the fundamentally sound. And who is playing against whom makes all the difference in the box score.

With that said, Deveroes is entertaining to me, especially when UD players are participating. There was a player who is headed for Saint Bonaventure there, the guys I listed from Xavier, many players from Miami and UC, and some other local players of interest and former stars. If you would enjoy watching a summer pick-up game, you would enjoy this. I bet you will see some freshmen from these teams soon. I think they are hitting the campuses shortly.

There are more games today.

NorthwestFlyer · #20 06-24-2008, 11:08 AM

Fudd - I have enjoyed reading the write ups on the players this summer. Have you seen anymore games?

Fudd · #21 06-24-2008, 11:33 AM

Not yet. I will make a few more trips this year, I am sure. I will write my observations. I know a lot of this can't be taken too seriously, but I always loved reading the observations of other posters who saw these games live.

Gazoo · #22 06-24-2008, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Figgie123

Looks that way to me. If they would wrap the boxscores in a PRE block, it would look nicer:

[html]
TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
15 PENNO, Jeff......... * 1-4 1-2 0-0 0 1 1 3 3 0 0 0 1 19
22 WARREN, London...... * 9-14 3-4 3-4 1 2 3 1 24 3 2 1 1 26

05 JOHNSON, Marcus..... * 5-15 0-1 4-6 1 2 3 3 14 5 1 2 0 29
03 PERRY, Mickey....... 5-7 2-4 3-3 2 1 3 0 15 0 2 0 0 29

21 LITTLE, Charles..... 2-4 0-0 2-2 2 0 2 0 6 0 0 0 0 17
[/html]

So, of these 4 guys, we hit 8 of 9 free throws. Nice. (Looks like Charles started, but they don't have a '*' next to his name, and Mickey didn't start, as he is listed 6th in the box score.)

(And I couldn't figure out a way to get to the June 15th box scores...)

John

[Edited to add Marcus Johnson in nice format. Thanks bosoxrule for catching that...)

Am I lost, or did the "four guys" referred to above mean LW, MJ, MP, and CL (not Penno), and they hit 12-15 not 8-9 free throws?? They took 9 three pointers but made 6, not 8 of those.

Gazoo · #23 06-24-2008, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

What is that investment disclaimer GAZOO? Something like, "Past results are not to be construed as a guarantee of future performance"?

Past performance is no guarantee of future results, or past performance does not guarantee future results.

Figgie123 · #24 06-24-2008, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Am I lost, or did the "four guys" referred to above mean LW, MJ, MP, and CL (not Penno), and they hit 12-15 not 8-9 free throws?? They took 9 three pointers but made 6, not 8 of those.

Yes, you are correct. I missed Marcus' line in the box scores until bosoxrule showed it, so I updated the boxscore section, but did not go back and fix the free throw comment afterwards.

Sorry for the confusion.

John

San Diego Flyer · #25 06-24-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Am I lost, or did the "four guys" referred to above mean LW, MJ, MP, and CL (not Penno), and they hit 12-15 not 8-9 free throws?? They took 9 three pointers but made 6, not 8 of those.

It got a little twisted and still is. The original 4 posted were Penno, Little, Warren, and Perry (and of course Penno is not a Flyer). Then Figgie meant well and added Marcus in an edit, but failed to revise the ft and 3pt numbers. In the end your ft numbers of 12/15 are a correct summation of the 4 Flyers, but the 3 pt numbers should be 5/9 (the 6th one you counted was Penno's). Unless I screwed it up too

.

San Diego Flyer · #26 07-09-2008, 03:11 PM

This will be of no consequence to those who despise Deveroes, but our Flyers have all but disappeared from the squads they started with. This appears to have been the weakest year in recent memory for collegians participating in Deveroes, and the information on games comes in leaks and fits.

Charles Little played maybe a couple fruitless games with Goodies Barbeque.
Marcus Johnson played a partial game with OHC.
Mickey Perry hung in for quite a while on OHC, but disappeared.
London Warren played heavily, and fairly well with Stan Litz Law Offices, but not recently.

I'm confident they are all at the gym working diligently on their fundamentals.

(with Heather, Robin, Jennifer, & Rachel

)

UDFLYERS2K · #27 07-09-2008, 03:23 PM

I am not sure why all of our Flyers have given up on the summer league. I have really enjoyed going to the games the last few years, but I'm sure as hell not going to sit in a gym and watch X, UC and Miami kids hoop it up. Oh well, bring on Wofford!

jcubspoe · #28 07-10-2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by UDFLYERS2K

I am not sure why all of our Flyers have given up on the summer league. I have really enjoyed going to the games the last few years, but I'm sure as hell not going to sit in a gym and watch X, UC and Miami kids hoop it up. Oh well, bring on Wofford!

Well, you're a bit off on your facts...look at the boxscore. How many X players do you see. Only 2 played the other day...BJ Raymond and JL. No DB, DJ, or any of the freshmen. Looks like no one is showing up to play in this fading league. Allot of these players (CW, MJ, and D. Brown) are finding other things to do in the summer (the L. James camp comes to mind) and working actually at the campus with all these camps that come in.

number21 · #29 07-12-2008, 09:22 AM

I went with my son a couple weeks ago and was disappointed that no UD players played. The league was made up of some players from some college in Pa. some players that are out of eligibility and a bunch of high school players. Really not much to watch except BJ Raymond who scored at will.