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Old 02-06-2019, 12:36 AM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
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St Looey loss

Honestly, I'm embarrassed. Not because we lost but how we lost. I've never seen a team so inept at rebounding to give up 18 offensive rebounds. Rebounding is nothing more than effort and desire. It doesn't take great leaping ability. It doesn't take superior athleticism. All it takes is manning up on your guy, putting your butt on him, and blocking him out. There's no excuse for giving up 18, leading to 20+ second chance points. That was the game right there, I don't care how poorly our guards shot again. That is a continuing saga, and one I don't know the answer to, but I knew this game was over 5 minutes in.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:14 AM
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I do not feel like they rode Toppin enough. I would get the ball to Toppin in the high post or low post literally every single time down the floor in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up.

I am against anyone other than Crutcher, Mikesell, or Davis shooting a 3.

I would like to see Crutcher drive to the basket more, he has that nice runner shot. I still do not feel that he shoots enough.

I feel like either OT or JC should get the ball in the high or low post literally every single possession in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up. Just play inside-out ball.

It drives me crazy to see OT not get more touches or not seeing Crutcher take more shots.

I would ride Crutcher and OT very hard. I just still feel like those 2 are not being utilized enough.

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Old 02-06-2019, 02:07 AM
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Crutcher RM and Davis went 2-13 from 3. But the beating we took on offensive rebounds was the game. We got abused.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I do not feel like they rode Toppin enough. I would get the ball to Toppin in the high post or low post literally every single time down the floor in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up.

I am against anyone other than Crutcher, Mikesell, or Davis shooting a 3.

I would like to see Crutcher drive to the basket more, he has that nice runner shot. I still do not feel that he shoots enough.

I feel like either OT or JC should get the ball in the high or low post literally every single possession in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up. Just play inside-out ball.

It drives me crazy to see OT not get more touches or not seeing Crutcher take more shots.

I would ride Crutcher and OT very hard. I just still feel like those 2 are not being utilized enough.
Completely agree. And when it does happen occasionally- you usually see a wide open/high quality 3 taken. I know at least one time early in the first half the ball went into a quickly double-teamed Obi, who threw it right back out to Mikesell and RM. drained it.

AG claimed on the post game show that they talked and talked about the board being where the game would be won or lost but either the guys blew it off or just have a long way to go. We’ll see shortly
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:12 AM
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For everyone calling for Obi to start, I hope you’re happy. If he’s getting the appropriate minutes, it shouldn’t matter who starts. We were all out of sorts from the get-go. Not the reason we lost, but why change a rotation or approach that was working—-especially for Obi.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I do not feel like they rode Toppin enough. I would get the ball to Toppin in the high post or low post literally every single time down the floor in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up.

I am against anyone other than Crutcher, Mikesell, or Davis shooting a 3.

I would like to see Crutcher drive to the basket more, he has that nice runner shot. I still do not feel that he shoots enough.

I feel like either OT or JC should get the ball in the high or low post literally every single possession in the absence of a wide-open Crutcher 3 or a lay-up. Just play inside-out ball.

It drives me crazy to see OT not get more touches or not seeing Crutcher take more shots.

I would ride Crutcher and OT very hard. I just still feel like those 2 are not being utilized enough.
Crutcher is not a natural PG. A really nice player, overall, but not a true PG.Really does not have a great bounce, great quickness, good strength and simply doesn't have the instincts to break down defenses and shorten the court in the half-court. Would love to see him, or anyone,be able to beat defenders into the paint for a pull up, take to the rack more or just draw defenders to open up easier buckets for the BIGS..

Still, with all being said, it's not the L that bothers me but the lack of effort. St Louis was picked to win the A10 and had lost 4 in a row so I was not predicting a W as they were due but I thought this game could go down to the last few minutes...

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Old 02-06-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Honestly, I'm embarrassed. Not because we lost but how we lost. I've never seen a team so inept at rebounding to give up 18 offensive rebounds. Rebounding is nothing more than effort and desire. It doesn't take great leaping ability. It doesn't take superior athleticism. All it takes is manning up on your guy, putting your butt on him, and blocking him out. There's no excuse for giving up 18, leading to 20+ second chance points. That was the game right there, I don't care how poorly our guards shot again. That is a continuing saga, and one I don't know the answer to, but I knew this game was over 5 minutes in.
Totally agree. Embarrassing is the only way to describe that total lack of effort. The Flyers were totally manhandled by a team who had lost 4 straight games.

How many times this season have we dug ourselves into a giant hole in the first 10 minutes? The difference last night was - we never seemed interested in climbing out.

Can’t recall the last time I remember seeing our guys completely out-hustled and bullied like we witnessed last night.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:32 AM
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Team was bullied and backed down didn’t fight back. So this is a tough stretch and I expected to lose to a desaprate SLU team on the road but didn’t like the body lanague and lack of fight. This is a finesse team, we have very good offensive spurts but they are not a junk yard dog mentality team. I am an optimist so for this year I am still looking at how we finish top 4 and maybe get to NCAA. My concern going forward is the brand of this team. After one and half years there really isn’t a dig in defensive mentality. So maybe this turns out good, you can’t just show up, make a run and win a game. They have to come out and play hard for 40 min. First time they really didn’t compete but it has been masked by a poor conference and there ability to there credit to go on spurts. Can the staff change the mentality mid season......gonna have to or another lost year.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:51 AM
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Rebounding on defense. Aggressiveness on offense. Those were the 2 biggest problems I saw last night (though I could only watch about half the game).

As mentioned above, rebounding is a combination of desire, aggressiveness, and technique. I’ve never had any real basketball ability, but when I was a kid, I loved to play, and the best way for me to get the respect of my teammates was to rebound. Whenever a shot would go up, I’d find the nearest opponent, get between him and the rim, and use my wide @$$ and broad shoulders to keep him off the boards. If the shot missed, I was in position to either get the ball or prevent my opponent from getting it. On missed shots, our guys all too often look more like they’re watching a fireworks display (“Ooooh! Aaaah!”) than participating in a basketball game. That’s something that, no matter how badly you’re shooting or handling the ball, you can always do well with the right mindset.

Aggressiveness on offense is a bit trickier. We need to get the ball in the paint, either with entry passes to one of our big(ger)s or with drives. But then, we need to finish with strong shot attempts, and that’s where we’re falling short. Part of it might be timidity, where our guys are afraid of getting mauled with no foul call (or with getting the call, but then going to the line and embarrassing themselves by bricking the FTs). Part of it might be a mindset that any shot with no one hanging on you is better than a shot with 2 guys dangling from your arms. Part of it might be recognition that we can’t lose anyone to injury, so the guys don’t take risks that, with a full bench, they may be more likely to take. Part of it might be what my mom used to call patience “to a fault”, aka being TOO patient. It could be a combination of all of the above (and other factors) in varying degrees. But the mindset will need to change if this team is to do any kind of damage (in any tournament, even Brooklyn) in March.

Looking back with 20/20 vision, this was a bad matchup for us from the start, because Travis Ford teams have traditionally been loaded with beefy players who play “chuck a shot” offense and “bump and grind” defense, while our current squad is built generally for agility and speed. And last night was like watching a competition between a Miata and a dump truck, but the problem was, the competition was a demolition derby. And we got demolished.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:04 AM
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I remember years ago watching North Carolina get trounced by something like 28 points at home. Vitale approached Dean Smith walking off the court and said something like “tough game coach, what are you going to review with the team?” Dean said something like “we just collectively had a bad game from me all the way down; it’s just one game, not the season. We’ll get it back”. And he walked off the court like he was completely unfazed.

Not saying this is how CAG will or should handle this. But the bigger picture is whether this is a 13 point loss or a 1 point loss, its still a loss. Even if all pistons were firing it probably goes down to the last minute. Important thing now is, don’t let St. Louis beat us this weekend. If this team is even in consideration for the NCAA, in my mind they’re on track. I never expected a guaranteed dance this year.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:28 PM
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Cohill has earned more minutes. Time to send a message
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:35 PM
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I think a big underlying issue is that none of these players play with fear of losing their jobs. There is no one else to replace them if they give lackluster effort. Hopefully next year this will change with a full roster and they will play with a sense of urgency and healthy amount of fear of losing minutes to poor effort. The best teams benefit from internal competition and pushing each other to higher levels of play.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:51 PM
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Kevinob15.....

So, knowing in the StL game there is no one to replace you causes/allows a player to miss shots, not box out, and not go to the hoop to draw fouls and lose?!?

But, when we make shots, box out and draw fouls and win, that means the players have a "fear" of someone replacing them?!?

Huh?

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Old 02-06-2019, 01:53 PM
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You guys are all answering the rebounding and toughness issue last night. And about Crutch as pg.

Just wanna add that Jordan is or has become DD in year two. PLAYS GREAT D, but we were counting on him for 10 points and 2 or 3 three balls a game.

He's hurting us
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:53 PM
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Until Cunningham finds his 1st step, we're going to struggle. Right now he can't get passed, over or around anyone. Something's up...
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Piqua Flyer '66;573731]Kevinob15.....

So, knowing in the StL game there is no one to replace you causes/allows a player to miss shots, not box out, and not go to the hoop to draw fouls and lose?!?

But, when we make shots, box out and draw fouls and win, that means the players have a "fear" of someone replacing them?!?

Huh?

We have talent. That has gotten us by the lower level talent. But what has happened every time we play a tougher team. We get out worked. Did you watch the game last night?! Did it look like they were trying? Maybe if Crutcher had a PG behind him pushing him for minutes he would get his a** in gear and start giving effort in all facets of the game. Competition drives quality of play. Complacency kills a team and that’s what we have. The best way to hold players accountable for mistakes is to sit theirs butts on the bench and makes them watch. We don’t have that luxury because there is no one to replace them. Next year you will have to fight to get the lions share of the minutes and I guarantee you that will result in more success.

Stop looking at everything so black and white. Giving effort is on a spectrum. Not all or nothing. This team has under-achieved from an effort stand point all season but does not mean they’re in capable of winning games. Just like it doesn’t mean we are incapable of beating more talented teams when we do give more effort.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:59 PM
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I'm interested to see what other people think about this:
Matching up the seven players that played for both teams last night (excluding Frankie) who would you take to be on your team this year, not based on future potential, but on what they are currently.
Starters:
- Josh / DJ Foreman
- Obi / Hasahn French
- Mikesell / Jordan Goodwin
- Jordan / Javon Bess
- Crutcher / Tremaine Isabell
Bench:
- Trey / Fred Thatch
- Dwayne / Dion Wiley
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
I think a big underlying issue is that none of these players play with fear of losing their jobs. There is no one else to replace them if they give lackluster effort. Hopefully next year this will change with a full roster and they will play with a sense of urgency and healthy amount of fear of losing minutes to poor effort. The best teams benefit from internal competition and pushing each other to higher levels of play.
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Great post Kevin! You hit the nail on the head for part of our problem. Competition will not make the Czech guy from last year into Obi, but it makes all of us play harder, practice harder and focus more. It is true in school, business, sports and most things we do in life.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I'm interested to see what other people think about this:
Matching up the seven players that played for both teams last night (excluding Frankie) who would you take to be on your team this year, not based on future potential, but on what they are currently.
Starters:
- Josh / DJ Foreman
- Obi / Hasahn French
- Mikesell / Jordan Goodwin
- Jordan / Javon Bess
- Crutcher / Tremaine Isabell
Bench:
- Trey / Fred Thatch
- Dwayne / Dion Wiley
It is a tossup. Home court rules.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Great post Kevin! You hit the nail on the head for part of our problem. Competition will not make the Czech guy from last year into Obi, but it makes all of us play harder, practice harder and focus more. It is true in school, business, sports and most things we do in life.
Are we saying that the transfers aren't enough to make our guys work harder in practice because they are safe this year, even though they may lose their spots to them next year (with the exception of Josh of course)? If so we have bigger problems than the talent level of this year's team, they must all be the worst motivated slackers there are. Bad recruiting of character players then if that is the case.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
If so we have bigger problems than the talent level of this year's team, they must all be the worst motivated slackers there are. Bad recruiting of character players then if that is the case.
He's probably not suggesting, by this fact (which I tend to agree with at least psychologically), that we have a bunch of slackers with questionable work ethic/character because they're "complacent" in that their spots can't be taken from them each night. But it is human nature to "step up" your game even that much more when little brother is lurking over your shoulder.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
He's probably not suggesting, by this fact (which I tend to agree with at least psychologically), that we have a bunch of slackers with questionable work ethic/character because they're "complacent" in that their spots can't be taken from them each night. But it is human nature to "step up" your game even that much more when little brother is lurking over your shoulder.
Isn't little brother lurking now? I keep hearing lately on this board that probably one of the reasons Kostas may have left was because he was being outplayed in practice last year by Obi. But that's not happening this year?

Or maybe has Jordan already seen the writing on the wall with Ibi and has already packed it in and knows he is transferring next year?

Last edited by CT Flyer; 02-06-2019 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Isn't little brother lurking now? I keep hearing lately on this board that probably one of the reasons Kostas may have left was because he was being outplayed in practice last year by Obi. But that's not happening this year?

Or maybe has Jordan already seen the writing on the wall with Ibi and has already packed it in and knows he is transferring next year?
That's the thing, we don't really know since none of us see what's transpiring at practice. Your post is the first whisper I've heard of Jordan being a potential transfer. If there's anything to that, then perhaps Jordan is partially "checked out", although I doubt it and it's unlikely that would affect his performance all that much, certainly not his shooting in my opinion. These guys are elite athletes and competitors. My only point is that when someone is standing in line and a legit alternative to your spot, there's an extra mental gear that can kick in to help push a player, performer, sales person, whoever to up their game a little bit.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
That's the thing, we don't really know since none of us see what's transpiring at practice. Your post is the first whisper I've heard of Jordan being a potential transfer. If there's anything to that, then perhaps Jordan is partially "checked out", although I doubt it and it's unlikely that would affect his performance all that much, certainly not his shooting in my opinion. These guys are elite athletes and competitors. My only point is that when someone is standing in line and a legit alternative to your spot, there's an extra mental gear that can kick in to help push a player, performer, sales person, whoever to up their game a little bit.
Trust me I am not hinting that Jordan is even remotely thinking of transferring but it would just strike me that he'd be complacent this year knowing there are multiple transfers next year that could take his playing time yet he is not motivated enough by that to do anything about it this year, but instead will wait until next year when the situation is iminent.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
I think a big underlying issue is that none of these players play with fear of losing their jobs.
Trey better start, because Cohill has been working his butt off with positive minutes.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:36 PM
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I know it might only be coincidence that the Flyers usually become slackers when they find themselves matched up against players who are bigger, stronger and better than they are. They seem to get up their motivational mojo when they play the bottom rung of the A 10 but put a team in the top rung of the A-10 and they just slack.

At the very worst time to be a slacker they become slackers. They just let the bigger, stronger or the just plain more talented opponent have their way with them. That has to be the only explanation. Motivation = Effort = Results therefore if the result is bad then the effort must have been bad and therefore the Motivation must be bad.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:02 PM
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Crutcher is not a true point guard (insert Beavis & Butthead laugh tracks).
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:03 PM
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So, if I've already decided that I need to transfer next year is that not my MOTIVATION to play hard every practice and game this year so that my current coach will give my "transfer coach" a good recommendation so that I can transfer to the best program possible?
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Trey better start, because Cohill has been working his butt off with positive minutes.
There’s no doubt about that. Cohill definitely has brought a spark when he enters the game. Would be nice if we could start like that.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Trey better start, because Cohill has been working his butt off with positive minutes.
I saw some good things from Cohill last night in his 16 minutes. But I also saw a couple of really poor plays, boneheaded plays - like one really ill-timed turnover in the first half when we were making a small dent in their lead (I think we'd cut it to 7) that gave SLU a walk in layup. And then in the 2nd half we cut it to single digits with 9 minutes to play (on a basket by him) and then he proceeds to foul a three point shooter on the other end with 3 seconds left on the shot clock, really just running at him out of control.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:30 PM
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So, if I've already decided that I need to transfer next year is that not my MOTIVATION to play hard every practice and game this year so that my current coach will give my "transfer coach" a good recommendation so that I can transfer to the best program possible?
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Trey better start, because Cohill has been working his butt off with positive minutes.
Could argue this should apply to Davis also. At least Trey will hit the boards.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
So, if I've already decided that I need to transfer next year is that not my MOTIVATION to play hard every practice and game this year so that my current coach will give my "transfer coach" a good recommendation so that I can transfer to the best program possible?
Logically yes... but knowing that you may leave can play on you mentally. Even if you're not thinking about leaving knowing you're struggling and there's people in practice killing it can weigh on you and it has potential to snowball.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:09 PM
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Some of you just crack me up with your psycholog babble. They collectively had a bad game. They played a hungry, desperate team in their building. I don't think any of the players are slacking off intentionally because they know they are guaranteed playing time. I doubt if anyone has "checked out" because they are considering transferring.

This year, they are what they are. A better than average A-10 team that is still relatively young in many areas. They are also not a deep team which reduces their ability to be overly aggressive on defense--both from a fouls perspective and effort perspective. A ten or eleven man rotation next year will alleviate these issues.

Last edited by springborofan; 02-07-2019 at 07:18 PM..
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