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  #1001  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:57 PM
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I always wonder what would have happened if the (New) Big East had been formed a few years later after we had our 4-year run including the Elite 8. I wonder if they still would have gone with Creighton. Probably, but I guess we'll never know.
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  #1002  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:09 PM
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Performance

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I always wonder what would have happened if the (New) Big East had been formed a few years later after we had our 4-year run including the Elite 8. I wonder if they still would have gone with Creighton. Probably, but I guess we'll never know.
I don't think athletic performance has much to do with it. The Big 10 didn't select Rutgers because of performance.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I don't think athletic performance has much to do with it. The Big 10 didn't select Rutgers because of performance.

The Big Ten has a network.
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  #1004  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Butler proved that conference affiliation is far less important than winning. UD does not exactly romp through the A10. The focus...the goal...is getting into the NCAA tournament regularly and winning when we get there.

Dayton's OOC schedule and the A10 provide more that enough opportunity to achieve that goal so long as we win.

It's about winning!
OBVIOUSLY, winning is important. However, the one element that is rarely ever mentioned is tournament seeding. Xavier was a #1 seed last year. UD could go undefeated in the A10 and MAYBE get a 4 seed. Our best season in the past 10 years we got a 6 or 7 seed.

It's much easier to advance as a higher seed and it's much easier to get a higher seed in a conference other than the A10. The biggest comeback most say is "well, UD won't win in the Big East". To that I say: Go hang out with UDScott and Maddog...

Go big or go home.
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  #1005  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I think Dayton in or out boils down to three things not related to market size or track record:
...
3) Potential Xavier blackball.
...
My guess is No. 3 is the biggest hurdle, and because of that, it’s unlikely we ever get in ... though there’s nothing wrong with hope. And I say that because on paper, we’re EASILY the most logical fit.
There’s one thing that could influence this, that none of us could fathom as recently as 2 years ago: X could go in the tank under Steele.

I’m not saying it WILL happen. But in 1976, no one thought the Cincinnati program would slip, but from 1978-1991, they made no NCAA tournament appearances. In 2000, no one thought St. John’s would slip, but from 2001-2010, they only made 1 NCAA tournament appearance, and that was later vacated as mandated by the NCAA. And in 2014, no one thought UConn would slip, but by 2018 they were an outright dumpster fire. So, feces occurs.

If our program ascends the way we hope it will, and if _avier’s program stalls as it could with a new coach, then that “blackball” may be worth about as much as a marble from the bag your older brother had back in the ‘60s. I wouldn’t bet my life savings on it, but I’d consider throwing a Benjamin on that bet.
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  #1006  
Old 02-04-2019, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
OBVIOUSLY, winning is important. However, the one element that is rarely ever mentioned is tournament seeding. Xavier was a #1 seed last year. UD could go undefeated in the A10 and MAYBE get a 4 seed. Our best season in the past 10 years we got a 6 or 7 seed.

It's much easier to advance as a higher seed and it's much easier to get a higher seed in a conference other than the A10. The biggest comeback most say is "well, UD won't win in the Big East". To that I say: Go hang out with UDScott and Maddog...

Go big or go home.
Exactly...the best seeds that we have had post-Purnell have been 7 seeds twice under Archie...even the 7 seed vs. 10 seed 1st round NCAAT games are almost toss-ups...we will likely never consistently advance past the round of 64 or 32 until we upgrade our OOC schedule...Archie went 15-3 and 14-4 in his last 2 years in the A10, and we only got a 7 seed.

Going better than 15-3 in the A10 is very tough to do. You will always lose 1 or 2 or 3 A10 games that you should win. If you play teams like Fordham and LaSalle often enough, sooner or later they will find a way to beat you every once in a while.
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  #1007  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I think Dayton in or out boils down to three things not related to market size or track record:

1) Jesuits vs. Marianist.

2) How much weight Creighton carries in wanting a closer rival/travel partner.

3) Potential Xavier blackball.

Funny thing is, the Dayton/Xavier games would have immediate cache as the league’s top rivalry and probably generate the largest viewership. But does Xavier want to give up any smidgen of competitive edge in recruiting or publicity? The two schools were joined at the hip under previous administrations, but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Open minds can see that competition has never been a big issue in the ACC with UNC, NC State and Duke. But the key words there are “open minds.”

My guess is No. 3 is the biggest hurdle, and because of that, it’s unlikely we ever get in ... though there’s nothing wrong with hope. And I say that because on paper, we’re EASILY the most logical fit.
The team that has won 2/3 National Championships is in the Big East but you think that Dayton automatically becomes the flagship viewership of the conference? I love Dayton basketball as much as anyone on here but I'd love to know where someone comes up with an idea like this.

Dayton is fine in the A10, a conference the program still can't figure out how to dominate. Anthony Grant is an elite recruiter. Recruiting will not be a problem under him no matter what conference Dayton is in.
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  #1008  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:46 AM
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Important to us....

All very good points. BB is at the heart and soul of UD...no other A10 school like it. Nonetheless, there are other A10 schools for which BB is very important, their flagship sport.

Isn't it possible for Neil to "consult" in confidence with a few A10 ADs that share views generally similar to ours, i.e., they too want to get to the NCAAs regularly? Isn't possible for UD, on its own, to hire an outside consultant...a BB expert with connections....to assess the A10 and develop a plan for improvement? Where I'm headed here is that if we had solid data and related information re what it will take to elevate the A10 to Big East levell, for example, perhaps a strong enough case could be made such that UD could win over enough A10 schools to do what's required.

Clearly, a few A10 schools will not even consider playing ball. But a conference doesn't need 14 schools.

We can't improve the A10 on our own. But I've got to believe that there are schools that are not happy with the current status of the conference. If there are enough such schools perhaps Neil would be able to get some help.

I'm sure I'm not stating this well. But I don't see significant conference improvement as an intractable problem if we are able to get support. And perhaps UD is a bit too close to the situation. I would like to see an independent outside appraisal of the A10 to help identify a doable framework for improvement. This isn't easy....but it isn't rocket science either.
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  #1009  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I think Dayton in or out boils down to three things not related to market size or track record:

1) Jesuits vs. Marianist.

2) How much weight Creighton carries in wanting a closer rival/travel partner.

3) Potential Xavier blackball.

Funny thing is, the Dayton/Xavier games would have immediate cache as the league’s top rivalry and probably generate the largest viewership. But does Xavier want to give up any smidgen of competitive edge in recruiting or publicity? The two schools were joined at the hip under previous administrations, but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Open minds can see that competition has never been a big issue in the ACC with UNC, NC State and Duke. But the key words there are “open minds.”

My guess is No. 3 is the biggest hurdle, and because of that, it’s unlikely we ever get in ... though there’s nothing wrong with hope. And I say that because on paper, we’re EASILY the most logical fit.
I think it comes down to 1 & 3. There is anyone that can guarantee winning. Anyone with a reasonable perspective can see that UD does enough to make themselves competitive. My bet on the 11th team is SLU.
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  #1010  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:30 AM
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It will be SLU. Objectively it should be us, just like it should have been us over Creighton. And IMO UD v. X and UD v. Butler is a lot closer than people think too, but alas.

Our best chance for conference improvement comes from further expansion of the American conference. I'd say there is a chance for A10 improvement as well, but not under current leadership.
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  #1011  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
The team that has won 2/3 National Championships is in the Big East but you think that Dayton automatically becomes the flagship viewership of the conference? I love Dayton basketball as much as anyone on here but I'd love to know where someone comes up with an idea like this.

Dayton is fine in the A10, a conference the program still can't figure out how to dominate. Anthony Grant is an elite recruiter. Recruiting will not be a problem under him no matter what conference Dayton is in.
You might try actually reading what I wrote. I never used the word “flagship” nor did I say they would dominate viewership in the league. I simply said the Xavier-Dayton rivalry is such that THAT GAME would PROBABLY generate a large viewership. No one denies that Villanova is that league’s flagship and likely draws the top ratings. But I doubt, say, Villanova vs. Creighton would have better ratings than Dayton vs. Xavier in a typical year.
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  #1012  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:09 AM
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Lesson from the past

Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
It will be SLU. Objectively it should be us, just like it should have been us over Creighton. And IMO UD v. X and UD v. Butler is a lot closer than people think too, but alas.

Our best chance for conference improvement comes from further expansion of the American conference. I'd say there is a chance for A10 improvement as well, but not under current leadership.
The American conference would be a mistake. Hybrid conferences like the old Big East just don't click. The goals and objectives of large FBS football schools are fundamentally different from those of A10-type schools. Conflict is inevitable.

At least in the A10 there is the potential for common objectives and resource requirements. In my opinion UD should not be trying to bolster the A10 alone. We need a few conference partners whose objectives are at least similar to ours and who have invested in facilities as evidence of commitment. I have every reason to think that Neil is highly competent. But, I still think he would benefit from outside expert counsel, e.g., a former conference commissioner or AD. No matter how smart and hard working you are fresh eyes always help.
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  #1013  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
You might try actually reading what I wrote. I never used the word “flagship” nor did I say they would dominate viewership in the league. I simply said the Xavier-Dayton rivalry is such that THAT GAME would PROBABLY generate a large viewership. No one denies that Villanova is that league’s flagship and likely draws the top ratings. But I doubt, say, Villanova vs. Creighton would have better ratings than Dayton vs. Xavier in a typical year.
100% agree, UD vs. Xavier would be the top rivalry in the league, nobody else would even be close. Next closest is what? Butler vs. Xavier? Maybe Georgetown vs. St. John's? Or Georgetown vs. Villanova? None of those games have any real buzz about them IMO.

IMO, there are no real rivalries in that league. There are no two schools in that league that really compete with each other or dislike each other.

No one has consistently challenged Villanova's overwhelming supremacy over that league.

It's a very new, young league, I suppose that real rivalries take time to develop.

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  #1014  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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While I understand everybody’s hesitation to move To the American, may I offer the following? Say what you want about cord cutting and the like, but every time Dayton has a game on the ESPN family of networks, people notice. By people, I mean alumni. While the Atlantic 10 deal with ESPN plus is nice, and an upgrade from the previous streaming service, Our games do not land with the exception of out of conference games and our game against Rhode Island on March 1, on an ESPN network. The American conference has agreements with the worldwide leader. The big east has a vast majority of their games on FS one. I see Ohio State fans in town struggle to figure out what channel that is when Ohio State plays over there. That network has not gained as much traction as people had hoped. Heck, I don’t even think to look for college basketball games as a casual fan on that network. To me, that ultimately spells trouble for the Big East. But, we shall see. Oh and by the way, I don’t think Dayton gets in unless as somebody pointed to above, Xavier goes into the tank, and we get to about three consecutive NCAA second weekend appearances.
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  #1015  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The American conference would be a mistake. Hybrid conferences like the old Big East just don't click. The goals and objectives of large FBS football schools are fundamentally different from those of A10-type schools. Conflict is inevitable.

At least in the A10 there is the potential for common objectives and resource requirements.

The AAC would certainly have issues and risks. Having football does change their overall mission. However I'd say that the AAC schools in general care at least as much about winning in basketball as do the A10 schools, and have much larger budgets to make it happen. Half of the AAC would leave for a P5 spot in a heartbeat. But half of the A10 would leave for a spot in the BE in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure the A10 has common objectives (beyond the generic 'win games') and definitely not in terms of resources. The top few teams in the A10 function basically at a P5 level (Dayton, SLU, VCU, RI, Richmond - maybe). The middle of the A10 is distinctly mid-major. Nothing wrong with that, they want to win and often times do, but in terms of resources they simply don't have them. The bottom of the A10 is crap, doesn't really care and doesn't have the resources to change things if they did care. They'd be better off in a lower conference and in private I bet they know/say that. I guess I don't understand how our scenario in the A10 is that much different than having to deal with football schools in the AAC.

The AAC would also has positives such as MUCH better home games at the arena, a higher profile (face it, they are significantly closer to the P5 in bball than the A10), and improved recruiting thanks to the first two items.
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  #1016  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
You might try actually reading what I wrote. I never used the word “flagship” nor did I say they would dominate viewership in the league. I simply said the Xavier-Dayton rivalry is such that THAT GAME would PROBABLY generate a large viewership. No one denies that Villanova is that league’s flagship and likely draws the top ratings. But I doubt, say, Villanova vs. Creighton would have better ratings than Dayton vs. Xavier in a typical year.
Xavier sold the trophy on eBay. There's no rivalry, especially nationally. Villanova would garner a bigger following for any conference game they play.

Dayton's best interest, as has been for years, is to actually figure out the A10. Something Xavier did for years and years which got them to the tournament every year.
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:11 PM
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If they were league mates, the rivalry would be immediate and more intense than anything currently in the Big East. You’re right that there is no rivalry NOW ... duh. That’s because they no longer play each other. This whole thread is a “what if” scenario. Maybe you missed that part.

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  #1018  
Old 02-04-2019, 01:21 PM
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We will get invited. It’s all about Money and fit... forget the bull about who likes who... all the Presidents and ADs have changed. We are ahead of Slu and UConn will stick with Football.
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  #1019  
Old 02-04-2019, 01:49 PM
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The sentiment that the BE instantly or automatically helps our success and profile hasn’t seemed to do that for Butler. After back to back losses in THE game, they will now likely miss the tournament for the second time in 5 years and will have just 4 wins in that time.

The A10 is all UD needs to seize the opportunity we all want. The fact that it has yet to occur to date is more likely a predictor that a jump to the BE would do more harm than good if measuring success is based on tourney appearance and tourney wins.
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  #1020  
Old 02-04-2019, 02:45 PM
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UConn is not setting the world on fire these days, except in women's BB. Their athletic dept is a dumpster fire and may scare off the BE.

https://www.wtnh.com/sports/college/...t-1/1708261590
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  #1021  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:24 PM
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I would much prefer that we start to dominate the A10 before moving to the BE. Feel like we would be skipping a very important step in the progression otherwise.
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  #1022  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I would much prefer that we start to dominate the A10 before moving to the BE. Feel like we would be skipping a very important step in the progression otherwise.
We have won 2 of the last 3 A10 Regular Season Titles. Last season and this season are rebuilding years and we still have a very good shot to be in the top 3 of the league this year. Next year we should be the favorite to win the league. 2 league titles, a top 3 finish and a being a favorite to win it next year should show that we have a pretty good grasp on the A10.

I am not saying we should leave, but I do not really think we are skipping a step.
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  #1023  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:54 PM
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UConn women

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
UConn is not setting the world on fire these days, except in women's BB. Their athletic dept is a dumpster fire and may scare off the BE.

https://www.wtnh.com/sports/college/...t-1/1708261590
Did you notice that the UConn women's program, the most successful in history, runs a $3 million annual deficit?

The men with Hurley will recover. They have everything needed; just 5 yrs removed from a national championship; 4 in the last 20 years; an on-campus facility that has to be seen to be believed; and the NBA loaded with UConn players, the program still has cachet. But Hurley better get it going PDQ.

Football recovery is almost impossible to imagine.
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  #1024  
Old 02-04-2019, 06:00 PM
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Just I and many predicted the UConn women's unbeatable run would hit the wall. They moved down to #5 in the country after Louisville gave them their second loss. Women's basketball is slowly starting to gain some parity.

UAC, did UConn build a new arena?
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:51 PM
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Arena

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Just I and many predicted the UConn women's unbeatable run would hit the wall. They moved down to #5 in the country after Louisville gave them their second loss. Women's basketball is slowly starting to gain some parity.

UAC, did UConn build a new arena?
Parity is women's BB is a very good thing. Still not close to men's programs...but increasing.

No, UConn does not have a new arena. Games are played in a Hartford civic center seating about 16,000 and a 30 year-old on-campus arena seating 10,000.

About two years ago a $40 million BB facility was built next to the arena. It houses everything imaginable for men's/women's programs,..the usual stuff, playing courts, training, eating, lounges, everything...a real Taj Mahal. Nothing is shared. The men and women each have their own "everything" including large courts. Quite spectacular.
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  #1026  
Old 02-05-2019, 11:28 AM
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Have not been in the UConn on-campus arena in about ten years, but it does not compare well with the likes of UD, VCU, Davidson, St L or Richmond. Not a major factor, but a consideration in BE talk.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Have not been in the UConn on-campus arena in about ten years, but it does not compare well with the likes of UD, VCU, Davidson, St L or Richmond. Not a major factor, but a consideration in BE talk.
Gampel Pavilion AKA "The Prophylactic" (Conn Dome).
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  #1028  
Old 02-27-2019, 06:26 PM
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Pull up each of these in a separate screen/window.

Look at the differences in Q2 and Q4.

Dayton: http://www.seed-madness.com/TeamStats/QTSDayton.htm
Butler: http://www.seed-madness.com/TeamStats/QTSButler.htm

And this is why we need to be in the BE.

If we had BUs schedule and split those games, we are in a much more secure place, maybe still on the bubble, that we are now.
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  #1029  
Old 02-27-2019, 08:58 PM
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Conn Dome

Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Gampel Pavilion AKA "The Prophylactic" (Conn Dome).
That I've never heard.

Gampel Pavillion is 30 years old and certainly is in need of some "freshening". It has never had a rework on the scale of two Arena renovations.

Having said that...it seats 10,000+ with seating beginning right at court side...not a bad seat in the house. Nothing like our Arena, of course.
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  #1030  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:12 PM
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Yes, getting into the BE is largely out of our control. However, we are a bubble team if we are in the BE. Does anyone not think we would have a resume similar (or better) to Creighton?

http://www.seed-madness.com/TeamStats/QTSDayton.htm

http://www.seed-madness.com/TeamStats/QTSCreighton.htm

How many years would you take a "ban" in the NCAA tourney in order to be in the BE, if you had a choice? It seems like it would pay dividends almost instantly.

6th place in BE > 3rd place in A10... almost every year.

http://bracketmatrix.com/
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  #1031  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:05 PM
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Well after all is said and done this regular season, our A-10 is fallen to the #12 conference in the country. When the West Coast, Ivy, MAC, and Southern are all higher rated, you know your on a sinking ship conference wise. With our new arena, new coach, incoming recruits, and amount of community support I sure hope if and when the opportunity comes UD jumps immediately.

Even the MAC only has one sub 200 rpi team, where as the A-10 has 6 in the dead weight category. Please let our Flyers be included in the next round of conference jumping which I hope happens this off season! The excitement of watching LaSalle, Fordham and GW with only 5 players on the floor is just too much for me to handle.
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  #1032  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:21 PM
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Dayton

is just learning how to be dominant in the A-10. Let's see what the next two years bring before we demand a conference change. Look at how many years Xavier dominated before being attractive enough as a program to leave the A-10 for the Big East. Take it one step at a time. Gradualism is at work here for all concerned parties.
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  #1033  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
is just learning how to be dominant in the A-10. Let's see what the next two years bring before we demand a conference change. Look at how many years Xavier dominated before being attractive enough as a program to leave the A-10 for the Big East. Take it one step at a time. Gradualism is at work here for all concerned parties.
Not sure it took that long for XU to become attractive...It took that long for a major conference to divorce football and basketball to be invited. Without football XU had nowhere to go when the BE still had football and no other P5 was going to take them without football either. Remember football drives all of the P5 conferences not basketball and the BE used to be part of the P6.
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  #1034  
Old 03-12-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Well after all is said and done this regular season, our A-10 is fallen to the #12 conference in the country. When the West Coast, Ivy, MAC, and Southern are all higher rated, you know your on a sinking ship conference wise. With our new arena, new coach, incoming recruits, and amount of community support I sure hope if and when the opportunity comes UD jumps immediately.

Even the MAC only has one sub 200 rpi team, where as the A-10 has 6 in the dead weight category. Please let our Flyers be included in the next round of conference jumping which I hope happens this off season! The excitement of watching LaSalle, Fordham and GW with only 5 players on the floor is just too much for me to handle.
I'm not quite ready to call the A10 a sinking ship. If you look at the history of the A10 over the last 5-10 years, it would be tough to call the conference a sinking ship.

I will simply go back 5 years, so that we're not comparing the conference makeup to that of when it included Xavier, Butler and Temple.

The conference has 4 straight years of 3 teams in the dance, following a record 6 teams in 2014.

One crappy season is not a reflection of the conference. It's far from a sinking ship. There's plenty of A10 teams that will be very strong next year.

Yes, we have some bottom feeder boat anchors as it relates to NET/RPI. But this year is an anomaly. Typically, you see anywhere from 3-5 teams that could qualify as a Q1 win opportunity, depending on the home/road venue, and then another 3-5 teams that would qualify for Q2 wins. That didn't happen this year. We have way too many teams this year that are in the bottom half of the nation. I anticipate that will come back to a normal balance next year.

And I'm not suggesting that we should stay in the A10 over a Big East invitation. That's silly.

But what about somewhere like the American? There's some risk involved with that. Is that conference stable for the long haul? There's football there, and that conference reeks of teams/programs that would jump to a P5 football conference if a whiff was sent their way - Memphis, UConn, Cincy, Temple, UCF, USF, Houston.

I'd hate to go packing to the American and be left holding our d!cks in the wind in a year or two when the next football driven shakeup occurs.

The American would have been much more appealing than the A10 for this year, and even perhaps last year.

The West Coast is top heavy (just one school driving that ship). The SoCon has had great year. Perhaps the MAC and Ivy are rated higher this year, but I can't take you serious if you're going to suggest they're better conferences than the A10.

In the end, the only two places that would be reasonable to go given all the variables would be the BE or the American. Maybe the Missouri Valley. Not sure the Valley would be any better. Doubtful. The American has a lot of risk.

Lots of information and additional perspective hear to simply refute that the A10 IS NOT a sinking ship. Any jump should be a calculated one. I don't see where that is in today's structure and landscape, unless the BE calls.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I'm not quite ready to call the A10 a sinking ship. If you look at the history of the A10 over the last 5-10 years, it would be tough to call the conference a sinking ship.
5 years ago the A-10 was always in the top 5 to 7 in the country RPI wise every year, that number has been slowly going down each season.

The number of 200 plus RPI teams has been going up.

It was a perfect storm of circumstances that allowed us to get 3 teams in the dance last season, will not happen this season. We barely get more than a couple in the NIT each year now.

On April 13, 1912 1500+ people were on a ship in the north Atlantic singing, drinking and dancing. If they knew what was about to happen and offered a life boat, I bet they would have jumped ship!
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
5 years ago the A-10 was always in the top 5 to 7 in the country RPI wise every year, that number has been slowly going down each season.

The number of 200 plus RPI teams has been going up.

It was a perfect storm of circumstances that allowed us to get 3 teams in the dance last season, will not happen this season. We barely get more than a couple in the NIT each year now.

On April 13, 1912 1500+ people were on a ship in the north Atlantic singing, drinking and dancing. If they knew what was about to happen and offered a life boat, I bet they would have jumped ship!
Gazoo, can you bookmark these posts and revisit a year from now re: the A10? I'm on record as saying that 2019 is an anomaly. 2020 will have 1) several more, at least 3, teams in the Top 100 2) half or more of the teams will be in top half of the NET/RPI and 3) we'll get 3 or more teams in the dance.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:03 PM
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I asked Neil about the AAC a month ago. He said that because they are a football conference we don't fit. The only reason they admitted Wichita St. was to balance Navy, who plays BB in the Patriot. I sensed no interest whatsoever in the AAC. I also asked if there was any chance the A10 would apply serious pressure to the bottom teams/programs to find another home. He didn't see that happening.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Gazoo, can you bookmark these posts and revisit a year from now re: the A10? I'm on record as saying that 2019 is an anomaly. 2020 will have 1) several more, at least 3, teams in the Top 100 2) half or more of the teams will be in top half of the NET/RPI and 3) we'll get 3 or more teams in the dance.
If we are still in the A10, I hope you are right.

I hope you mean we will have at least 3 more, so 6 total, teams in the Top 100. But the bigger concern is how many will we have over 200, in the bottom 150?

And speaking of bookmarks, if you get bored you can look back a few years when we were still a top 7 conference and see where I started my rant about the downward spiral that was about to begin. Most of the board laughed at me. After 4 straight 6 or 7 RPI seasons, we have now went 8,8, 11 (was this also an anomaly like this year?) and 12.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I'd hate to go packing to the American and be left holding our d!cks in the wind in a year or two when the next football driven shakeup occurs.

But we would be holding them with Wichita State and VCU (wouldn't go to AAC without VCU). That's pretty good company to be in. If we tried to form a new conference (which some have already said we should do with the top of the A-10) there would be teams that would want to join us. If we didn't want to form a new conference there would be conferences that would love to have us. I don't see how we would end up any worse off than we are now, and probably would be in better shape.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Gazoo, can you bookmark these posts and revisit a year from now re: the A10? I'm on record as saying that 2019 is an anomaly. 2020 will have 1) several more, at least 3, teams in the Top 100 2) half or more of the teams will be in top half of the NET/RPI and 3) we'll get 3 or more teams in the dance.
Comparing conferences whose whole conference is top 100 to our conference with 3 teams makes a lot of sense.
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  #1041  
Old 03-12-2019, 07:55 PM
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Ranting for years about the A10 seems like an unfruitful obsession when there are no real other options for UD. The A10 is where we are and belong at this point. It didn’t keep X from becoming a major. The Horizon didn’t limit Butler either nor do the MVC limit WSU.

Seems like the only difference between those schools (and the Zags) and UD are results in the conference they are actually in.
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  #1042  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:39 PM
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The American

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
But we would be holding them with Wichita State and VCU (wouldn't go to AAC without VCU). That's pretty good company to be in. If we tried to form a new conference (which some have already said we should do with the top of the A-10) there would be teams that would want to join us. If we didn't want to form a new conference there would be conferences that would love to have us. I don't see how we would end up any worse off than we are now, and probably would be in better shape.
What evidence is there that the AAC would have interest in either UD or VCU?

The AAC views itself as the Power 6 Conference...a football conference. WSU was added to bring the conference up to 12 in basketball...a special case.

Re other conferences that "would love to have us": Are their other non-FB conference options that are better for UD than the A10? I'm asking.

If A10 weakness really has become a big deal, a seriously limiting factor for UD, no one knows that better than Neil. What are the reasons or what is the primary reason? I presume men's BB drives the bus. That being the case, there are schools in the A10 for which top-tier BB is very important, perhaps a half dozen (?) Wouldn't the best course of action be organizing (leading) the six, or so, to break away from the A10...forming a new conference having as the stated objective excellence in men's BB...play at the very highest level? Aren't there a few schools in other conferences for which such a statement would resonate such that they would join with the A10 breakaways?

Now there must be a reason(s) why we are not initiating such a course of action, or we'd be doing it. Yet another approach is to team with other A10 schools to adopt a forceful strategy of excellence for the A10 and essentially expelling schools that don't want to play ball. In that case such schools are withdrawing, not being kicked out. Again, there must be a reason why we're not leading such an effort.

In past years we've been a three, even four, bid league. No longer. Why not? Is this lull just temporary or is it likely to be permanent? If so, why? Is it fixable following one of the approaches I've mentioned above?

Dayton is unique. But there are schools in the A10 besides UD that want to be in the NCAAs regularly. It's important to them....not just "nice" when it happens on rare occasions. Is the number of such A10 schools large enough to form a critical mass for a course of action of some sort? It appears not, or it would be happening.

But join a football conference like the American? We'd come to rue the day if that ever happened. Just opinion. (But, it was such a hybrid model that doomed the old Big East.)
_________
One last thought. UD has different objectives than other A10 schools. But, over the years we haven't exactly been tearing the A10 opposition to shreds. Take a look at the scores over the years....the A10 regular season and tournament championships won by UD. No doubt we are the league's crown jewel. But it seems to me that is because of our incredible fan base and facilities rather than league dominance.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:18 PM
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I suppose that forming a new conference is not as radical of an idea as I thought. The Mountain West conference has only been around since 1999.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moun...est_Conference


Conferences and founding dates:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...AA_conferences
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:20 PM
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Any Lessons from Ill-Fated Great Midwest? (1991-95)

I'm sure it's come up in this monolithic thread, but being a student of history ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grea...est_Conference

Dayton HAS BEEN in a conference with DePaul & Marquette before. Granted, we won exactly (1) conference game in 2 seasons under JOB & OP, an unlikely upset of ranked St Louis propelled by 8-8 3PT from Shawn Haughn. But as much as we contrive this animosity from the Jesuit schools, they thought enough to invite UD in 1993. What changed?

Some interesting dynamics:
- we left Xavier in the old MCC to join GMC but continued to schedule them. X caught up when we both joined A10 in 1995
- UD was **** lucky the A10 took us on our tradition & fan base vs recent futility. Not sure what Plan B was ... Back to MCC?
- it's 25 years ago, but I wonder if our miserable GMC play is still held against us
- What might have been ... Had UD competed in the GMC, maybe we follow to conference USA then to old Big East as non-football member like DePaul & Marquette. Does X still go to A10? Recall SLU spent time in MVC before joining A10.

I'd love to know the inside story from those days. Maybe Jablonski or Archdeacon could reach out to Ted Kissell?

As it is, God provides and we're in a good place. Our sustained results need to match our facilities and fan base. The A10 can take us there.

See also: John C's great article on Ted Kissell, 2008
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7323

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Old 03-13-2019, 07:10 AM
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With the dynamic of college sports and how quickly things can and do change I highly doubt our performance from 25 years ago plays a role in anything today. It's all about what can make a league $$$. If we continue to go to the NCAA tourney and win some games we become more attractive because that's one thing that makes money for the league.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:12 AM
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IIRC, the driving force behind our acceptance into the GMWC was DePaul, which was still a formidable program in the early 1990s, and they’re not a Jesuit school. Plus, the GMWC had members like UC and Memphis (then Memphis State), which are public universities. An entirely different set of dynamics than what’s in place today.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:44 AM
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All the changes in that time frame came at a terrible time for UD. We were bad at everything except football and were not an attractive addition to any conference. Leadership during that period was lacking. The ingrained desire to remain independent for so long was the wrong idea at the wrong time.

In my view there were three watershed moments in UD basketbll history, 1. Hiring Tom Blackburn, 2. NCAA runnerup in '67 leading to the Arena, 3. the mismanagenent in the late 80's- early 90's.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:59 AM
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The Problem With the 2019 A-10

is that the Flagship program VCU is the lowest rated A-10 Flagship program in many years.
Hopefully the Dayton Flyers will correct the situation next year.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:04 AM
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Ted Kissell

Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
I'm sure it's come up in this monolithic thread, but being a student of history ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grea...est_Conference

Dayton HAS BEEN in a conference with DePaul & Marquette before. Granted, we won exactly (1) conference game in 2 seasons under JOB & OP, an unlikely upset of ranked St Louis propelled by 8-8 3PT from Shawn Haughn. But as much as we contrive this animosity from the Jesuit schools, they thought enough to invite UD in 1993. What changed?

Some interesting dynamics:
- we left Xavier in the old MCC to join GMC but continued to schedule them. X caught up when we both joined A10 in 1995
- UD was **** lucky the A10 took us on our tradition & fan base vs recent futility. Not sure what Plan B was ... Back to MCC?
- it's 25 years ago, but I wonder if our miserable GMC play is still held against us
- What might have been ... Had UD competed in the GMC, maybe we follow to conference USA then to old Big East as non-football member like DePaul & Marquette. Does X still go to A10? Recall SLU spent time in MVC before joining A10.

I'd love to know the inside story from those days. Maybe Jablonski or Archdeacon could reach out to Ted Kissell?

As it is, God provides and we're in a good place. Our sustained results need to match our facilities and fan base. The A10 can take us there.

See also: John C's great article on Ted Kissell, 2008
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7323
I reread John C's comprehensive article about the Kissell era. I've said this before: We have had Baujan and Frericks, but Ted Kissell is by far the most significant person in UD history as regards his role creating UD's Div 1 athletic program...something we never had before Ted's arrival. I think Ted's contribution should be recognized and honored more visibly.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:40 AM
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I tend to agree with those who feel that a move to the AAC would be a mistake, as we would be second-class citizens in a conference focused on football. Failing an unlikely invitation from the Big East, I believe we are better off remaining in the A10. However, given the expansion of larger conference schedules to 20 games we will continue to be marginalized in the A10 as the larger conferences shut us out of match-ups and the ability to build a competitive schedule.

Given these realities, I think UD should be as proactive as possible in looking into the creation of a new conference made up of basketball focused programs.

I was disappointed when Wichita State left the MVC for the American conference, as I thought they were a natural target for a possible future conference realignment. There were also confirmed discussions just last year of Gonzaga considering a move to the Mountain West Conference. I don’t see how such a move would make sense for Gonzaga, but it would be equally disappointing for UD, because it would remove another of the nationally relevant – non-Power 5 - schools who I feel UD should be courting for a better conference home.

I would propose that UD pursue a TV friendly, national conference alternative that provides a network partner (NBC Sports network or CBS Sports network) with sports programming across all time zones.

The example below takes the best of the WCC and A10, along with Wichita State and Loyola Chicago to create a very attractive 3 division conference. Two-thirds of the schools have been nationally relevant in recent years and the others bring histories of success and/or a beneficial geographic footprint/TV market. By playing home and home only within your division for an 18 game schedule, travel costs would be minimized. I think this would be a much more attractive alternative for Gonzaga and Wichita State.

West Central East

Gonzaga Dayton Rhode Island
St. Mary’s Saint Louis VCU
Loyola Marymount Wichita State Richmond
San Diego Duquesne Davidson
USF or Santa Clara Loyola Chicago St. Joe’s

Travel costs could be further reduced by scheduling a 3-day conference season Tipoff event around the holidays in a neutral Midwest city (Indianapolis, Chicago, Columbus) where each team plays two games (one from each of the other divisions/ 5 games a day). The neutral site games eliminate one home and one away game from the non-divisional opponents, thereby reducing major travel to one road trip to each division (for example - Dayton would play two games one week on east coast and two games another week on west coast).

The Tipoff event would also be three days of wall-to-wall counter programming for the broadcast partner during bowl season (neither NBC Sports or CBS Sports networks televise major college football).

Any perceived competitive advantage for the Central division schools of having the Tipoff in the Midwest would be remedied by alternating the post-season championship location between the east coast (Mohegan Sun Arena?) and west coast (Las Vegas).

That’s my two cents.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:54 AM
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UAC,

There were several articles from national writers saying the AAC was interested in adding Dayton and VCU. One of the UConn writers for the Hartford Courant wrote an article saying the AAC needed to add Dayton and VCU to strengthen hoops
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
There were also confirmed discussions just last year of Gonzaga considering a move to the Mountain West Conference. I don’t see how such a move would make sense for Gonzaga...
Gonzaga to the MWC did, and IMO, still does, make a lot of sense.

There was talk of BYU following Gonzaga to the MWC. That would leave SMC as the lone consistently good program in the WCC.

SMC and BYU are the only other consistently good programs in the WCC, whereas the MWC has: Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico, Boise State, Utah State, and San Diego State. Even Colorado State has had some success.

I think that Gonzaga may eventually end up in the MWC, even though they got a better deal from the WCC to stay.

There was a 4 year period from 2010-2013 where the MWC was a top 6 conference every year, BYU was still in the MWC for 2 of those years.

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Old 03-13-2019, 11:05 AM
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Comment

Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
I tend to agree with those who feel that a move to the AAC would be a mistake, as we would be second-class citizens in a conference focused on football. Failing an unlikely invitation from the Big East, I believe we are better off remaining in the A10. However, given the expansion of larger conference schedules to 20 games we will continue to be marginalized in the A10 as the larger conferences shut us out of match-ups and the ability to build a competitive schedule.

Given these realities, I think UD should be as proactive as possible in looking into the creation of a new conference made up of basketball focused programs.

I was disappointed when Wichita State left the MVC for the American conference, as I thought they were a natural target for a possible future conference realignment. There were also confirmed discussions just last year of Gonzaga considering a move to the Mountain West Conference. I don’t see how such a move would make sense for Gonzaga, but it would be equally disappointing for UD, because it would remove another of the nationally relevant – non-Power 5 - schools who I feel UD should be courting for a better conference home.

I would propose that UD pursue a TV friendly, national conference alternative that provides a network partner (NBC Sports network or CBS Sports network) with sports programming across all time zones.

The example below takes the best of the WCC and A10, along with Wichita State and Loyola Chicago to create a very attractive 3 division conference. Two-thirds of the schools have been nationally relevant in recent years and the others bring histories of success and/or a beneficial geographic footprint/TV market. By playing home and home only within your division for an 18 game schedule, travel costs would be minimized. I think this would be a much more attractive alternative for Gonzaga and Wichita State.

West Central East

Gonzaga Dayton Rhode Island
St. Mary’s Saint Louis VCU
Loyola Marymount Wichita State Richmond
San Diego Duquesne Davidson
USF or Santa Clara Loyola Chicago St. Joe’s

Travel costs could be further reduced by scheduling a 3-day conference season Tipoff event around the holidays in a neutral Midwest city (Indianapolis, Chicago, Columbus) where each team plays two games (one from each of the other divisions/ 5 games a day). The neutral site games eliminate one home and one away game from the non-divisional opponents, thereby reducing major travel to one road trip to each division (for example - Dayton would play two games one week on east coast and two games another week on west coast).

The Tipoff event would also be three days of wall-to-wall counter programming for the broadcast partner during bowl season (neither NBC Sports or CBS Sports networks televise major college football).

Any perceived competitive advantage for the Central division schools of having the Tipoff in the Midwest would be remedied by alternating the post-season championship location between the east coast (Mohegan Sun Arena?) and west coast (Las Vegas).

That’s my two cents.
LI, note that eight of the schools you selected for the new conference are current A10 members. Presumably you think those eight are serious about men's BB. Assuming you're right, and that the eight want more than they are getting from the A10, rather than the considerable complexity of a large coast-to-coast 15-16 member new conference, wouldn't it be simpler if those eight stayed together, broke away from the A10 and enticed two other schools with similar aspirations to join with them in a 10 team league? The BE is doing just fine with ten schools.

The A10 exists. The problem seems to be that nearly half the members are not serious about BB as evidenced by their unwillingness to invest in all aspects of the sport. It still seems best to me if the half+ that want to be in the NCAAs with some regularity step up and go their own way....adding about 2-3 schools currently frustrated by their conference affiliation.

Even that must be hard to do or it would be done. This year could mark a watershed of the A10 is a one bid league...even if two. In years past the A10 ranked much higher in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the slippage will result is some action. I hope so because I think are best opportunity is with a strengthened A10.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:07 AM
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But similar to Wichita State in the AAC, as a non-football school Gonzaga would be a second class citizen in a conference where football is the priority, hence my focus on creating a conference focused on basketball.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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UAC Flyer:

Agree, that adding Wichita State and Loyola Chicago to the 8 A10 teams would be easier, but think of how much more attractive the west coast teams would make the conference for the TV partner. Beyond the Pacific time zone programming and adding well established programs of Gonzaga and St. Marys, you would also be bringing the Los Angeles and San Diego markets into the conference.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
UAC Flyer:

Agree, that adding Wichita State and Loyola Chicago to the 8 A10 teams would be easier, but think of how much more attractive the west coast teams would make the conference for the TV partner. Beyond the Pacific time zone programming and adding well established programs of Gonzaga and St. Marys, you would also be bringing the Los Angeles and San Diego markets into the conference.
Not sure how we would bring in LA and SD. Gonzaga is in Spokane, Washington, and St. Mary's is in Moraga, CA, up in Northern California, east of Oakland.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:29 AM
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It's funny how Loyola Chicago made the NCAA tourney for the first time in 34 years (albeit they went to the Final Four) but suddenly everyone thinks they're this great program. George Mason went to a Final Four yet they're not mentioned. How do we know Loyola isn't going to go another 34 years without an NCAA appearance?
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:29 AM
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Opinion writers

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
UAC,

There were several articles from national writers saying the AAC was interested in adding Dayton and VCU. One of the UConn writers for the Hartford Courant wrote an article saying the AAC needed to add Dayton and VCU to strengthen hoops
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OSU, I understand your point. My only comment is that "national" sports columnists are opinion writers...nothing more. Just like us.

Obviously, anything I say about this subject also is nothing more than opinion. I will tell you what my "opinion" is based on, however. It's the steady stream of statements of AAC commissioner Mike Aresco.

In his words the AAC has but one overarching objective. That is to be on a par in all areas with the current Power 5 conferences, i.e., in performance, in TV contracts. Aresco refers to the AAC as a Power 6 conference dominated by football and comprised essentially of similar large public schools.

Adding WSU, although large public sans FB, is a peculiarity. I find it very hard to reconcile Aresco's oft-stated position with a hybrid conference format comprised of FB and non-FB members.

Never say never. But, absent another conference shakeup I think the AAC is and will remain what it is....a FB dominated conference determined to prove that it is competitive with the Power 5s....by beating them on the playing field, to use Aresco's words. Dayton does not fit in that picture.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:30 AM
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I think comparisons to the old Big East and the current AAC are a bit of apples/oranges. The Old Big East faced an identity crisis as it continued to lose most of its most visable football programs to the the ACC, B10 or B12 (remember when TCU was a Big East member for like a day?) All expansion centered on football programs, some of them questionable in football, and most horrible in basketball. Meanwhile, they kept pushing more and more money away from the basketball side to the football side in an effort to keep up with the jonses. What they ended up doing is taking teams like Georgetown, Nova, St Johns and Seton Hall who helped make the Big East a basketball power and dwindling away any semblance of power they had.


At this point, I think most current AAC teams understand their place in the bigger picture. Sure most hope that one day some shakeup will allow them to join the ranks of Texas, Ohio St, Clemson or Bama, but structurally they are all flowing in the same direction. The old Big East was centered upon improving/maintaining their foothold in football with little regard to basketball. The current AAC realizes there are few, if any, potential additions that can improve their football situation, and any improvements must come from within. Meanwhile, there are several schools that value basketball and I'm sure would like a higher level of competition. When Wichita St joined, the makeup and direction of the league was clear. If UD/VCU were to join, it remains clear. Weather that direction is a better fit for UD/VCU than the current A10 or any other possibilities is a different direction, but they TV payouts and such can be controlled much better by UD/VCU than they were by Nova, Gtown, etc... in the old league.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:45 AM
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I realize that Neil said this wasn’t being considered, but I agree with those who say the best option would be to take the schools from within the A-10 that take basketball most seriously (ex. UD, SLU, VCU, Rhody, and others), find other hoops-centric schools in the eastern half of the US that do the same, and either form a new conference or rebrand the A-10 by paring the programs that treat D-I hoops like a rec league (by not investing in their programs). That way, we’re controlling our own destiny instead of being on the outside looking in at the BE or aligning with the football-centric schools in the AAC, and maximizing the potential for our Flyer Faithful to economically do what we do best (turn Away games into Home games).
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:56 AM
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While the intercoastal conference sounds great, I don’t see it happening at this point. I could see a conference forming out of
Dayton, VCU, Duquesne, Davidson, Saint Bonaventure, st. Louis, Rhode Island, and maybe Saint Joseph or Richmond. Add to that, Loyola Chicago, Northern Kentucky, and Murry state. We could have games in two times zones, and have a decent sized television markets represented. Yes, I realize that New York and DC would no longer be represented, but I can’t remember the last time I turned on 66 WFAN and they were talking about Fordham basketball. Most of the teams that I mentioned have a commitment to basketball, and anywhere ranging from adequate to more than adequate facilities. Another thing to keep in mind, the travel for other sports. I suppose you could in the intercoastal conference have the divisions similar to basketball, but your lacrosse and softball teams are not getting on chartered flights to go to games.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:59 AM
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One thing to remember about forming a new conference: The NCAA has a waiting period (something like three years, maybe even five) before its conference tournament winner is awarded an automatic bid. Doesn’t rule out at-large bids, of course, but still something’s to consider.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:20 PM
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^^


I thought it was 2, but that was a while ago.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:53 PM
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M21eagle45:

RE: "Not sure how we would bring in LA and SD. Gonzaga is in Spokane, Washington, and St. Mary's is in Moraga, CA, up in Northern California, east of Oakland."

University of San Diego and Loyola Marymount (LA) were also in the West division proposed.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:56 PM
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CT Flyer:

You're correct on your Loyola Chicago comment, but you could've said the same about VCU and Butler a few years ago. More importantly, Loyola is an excellent school in huge market with an annual enrollment north of 11,000.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
M21eagle45:

RE: "Not sure how we would bring in LA and SD. Gonzaga is in Spokane, Washington, and St. Mary's is in Moraga, CA, up in Northern California, east of Oakland."

University of San Diego and Loyola Marymount (LA) were also in the West division proposed.
Sorry about that, I thought you were talking about Gonzaga and St. Mary's in the section I quoted. I did not realize you were talking about your original post.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
More importantly, Loyola is an excellent school in huge market with an annual enrollment north of 11,000.
So is DePaul and when was the last time they were relevant?
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
So is DePaul and when was the last time they were relevant?
But they're in the Big East and therefore not a candidate for another conference.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
But they're in the Big East and therefore not a candidate for another conference.
I get it but being a school of 11,000 and in a major market does not automatically make you a great candidate. Is Loyola Marymount with their five total NCAA berths, and none since 1990, a good program just because they are in Los Angeles?
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I get it but being a school of 11,000 and in a major market does not automatically make you a great candidate. Is Loyola Marymount with their five total NCAA berths, and none since 1990, a good program just because they are in Los Angeles?
CT:

The idea of my proposal was to stop waiting for a Big East invitation that may never come and try to proactively put together a basketball focused conference. A rehash of the A10 isn't going to get you a TV contract with an NBCS or CBSS, as BE has with Fox.

By having three divisions in different time zones you are maximizing programming for a potential TV partner. The other drivers a TV partner is looking for are recent performance, size of TV market, size of school (ie. # of alumni = potential viewers), quality of facilities and overall history/academic standing.

The proposed schools are the best combination I could come up with to hit on a majority of those drivers. None hit them all.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:09 PM
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Not sure the 3rd place team in the 12th rated conference has UHaul leverage of any kind.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
CT:

The idea of my proposal was to stop waiting for a Big East invitation that may never come and try to proactively put together a basketball focused conference. A rehash of the A10 isn't going to get you a TV contract with an NBCS or CBSS, as BE has with Fox.

By having three divisions in different time zones you are maximizing programming for a potential TV partner. The other drivers a TV partner is looking for are recent performance, size of TV market, size of school (ie. # of alumni = potential viewers), quality of facilities and overall history/academic standing.

The proposed schools are the best combination I could come up with to hit on a majority of those drivers. None hit them all.
I get your idea just questioning how all of a sudden Loyola is this great program that we'd want to be affiliated with.

As someone else mentioned I'm not sure that type of conference could ever make sense for non revenue generating sports, which would probably make it not doable.

Too bad we couldn't stay in the A10 for every sport but basketball and start a basketball only conference with some of the schools you mention.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:21 PM
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Completely open to others suggestions, but my point is to get proactive, because AAC isn't a fit because of football and I question that a BE invitation is ever coming (they'd take UConn if they dropped football).

Otherwise, I'm done. You guys win.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Ranting for years about the A10 seems like an unfruitful obsession
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Your right. Lets get back to all of the regularly scheduled threads where people rant about our terrible home schedule, how we get out recruited by the schools in big name conferences, the crappy A-10 TV contract, how coaches use UD has a stepping stone, how the NCAA discriminates against the non power conferences on selection sunday, etc........

Improving our conference (either by moving to a different if the opportunity exists or getting rid of the perennial dead weights in the A-10) should help out a bit in all the above categories.

We are not living in 1994 anymore, times and $$$$$$$$$$ have changed.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Your right. Lets get back to all of the regularly scheduled threads where people rant about our terrible home schedule, how we get out recruited by the schools in big name conferences, the crappy A-10 TV contract, how coaches use UD has a stepping stone, how the NCAA discriminates against the non power conferences on selection sunday, etc........

Improving our conference (either by moving to a different if the opportunity exists or getting rid of the perennial dead weights in the A-10) should help out a bit in all the above categories.

We are not living in 1994 anymore, times and $$$$$$$$$$ have changed.
I’m fine discussing it. This is soon to become lumped in with those mentioned if it isn’t already there.

A lot of the ideas thrown out have 3 similar characteristics:

1.) Imply that the leadership is not on top of this
2.) Imply that countless options exist if we were on top of this
3.) Proposals sound a lot like the great FFL trades my kids used to offer up when they were still in school

If there are true viable options you gotta believe they are being formulated and/or considered.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
I’m fine discussing it. This is soon to become lumped in with those mentioned if it isn’t already there.

A lot of the ideas thrown out have 3 similar characteristics:

1.) Imply that the leadership is not on top of this
2.) Imply that countless options exist if we were on top of this
3.) Proposals sound a lot like the great FFL trades my kids used to offer up when they were still in school

If there are true viable options you gotta believe they are being formulated and/or considered.
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I'll add one more characteristic, although perhaps it's more in the minority:

That the A10 is a sinking ship. And we need to abandon ship, ship even if it's to an overstuffed lifeboat.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:42 PM
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^yep.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:43 AM
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According to several sources throughout the league, the American Athletic Conference is looking for a way to upgrade its rankings in basketball with an expansion blueprint focused primarily on Wichita State, but also including other higher profile basketball schools such as Dayton and Virginia Commonwealth.

https://collegesportsmaven.io/tmg/ma...Eqtk4wuGkwbvg/

Is this still true, I’m not sure. I don’t know how serious those rumors were but discussing the AAC isn’t the biggest pipe dream in the world

Mark Blaudschun the guy that wrote this broke a lot of the Big East split stuff
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
One thing to remember about forming a new conference: The NCAA has a waiting period (something like three years, maybe even five) before its conference tournament winner is awarded an automatic bid. Doesn’t rule out at-large bids, of course, but still something’s to consider.
Can’t find the article but I read after the AAC Big East split the NCAA was done handing out auto bids to new conferences. 32 was the limit
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:52 AM
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History

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
According to several sources throughout the league, the American Athletic Conference is looking for a way to upgrade its rankings in basketball with an expansion blueprint focused primarily on Wichita State, but also including other higher profile basketball schools such as Dayton and Virginia Commonwealth.

https://collegesportsmaven.io/tmg/ma...Eqtk4wuGkwbvg/

Is this still true, I’m not sure. I don’t know how serious those rumors were but discussing the AAC isn’t the biggest pipe dream in the world

Mark Blaudschun the guy that wrote this broke a lot of the Big East split stuff
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The article you cited is history.....two years old...pre-WSU addition.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:09 AM
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Before we decide we're too good for the A10 we need to prove we're too good for the A10.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Long Island FLYER View Post
CT:

The idea of my proposal was to stop waiting for a Big East invitation that may never come and try to proactively put together a basketball focused conference. A rehash of the A10 isn't going to get you a TV contract with an NBCS or CBSS, as BE has with Fox.

By having three divisions in different time zones you are maximizing programming for a potential TV partner. The other drivers a TV partner is looking for are recent performance, size of TV market, size of school (ie. # of alumni = potential viewers), quality of facilities and overall history/academic standing.

The proposed schools are the best combination I could come up with to hit on a majority of those drivers. None hit them all.
I applaud your thinking outside the box, while we others sit here and complain about the bad gyms and bottom feeders of the A10. Picking at the exact teams you propose is denying the concept of something different is possible.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
According to several sources throughout the league, the American Athletic Conference is looking for a way to upgrade its rankings in basketball with an expansion blueprint focused primarily on Wichita State, but also including other higher profile basketball schools such as Dayton and Virginia Commonwealth.

https://collegesportsmaven.io/tmg/ma...Eqtk4wuGkwbvg/

Is this still true, I’m not sure. I don’t know how serious those rumors were but discussing the AAC isn’t the biggest pipe dream in the world

Mark Blaudschun the guy that wrote this broke a lot of the Big East split stuff
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Not sure anyone suggested it was a pipe dream. But is it the right fit? What's the calculated risk of some or all of the football schools dumping/jumping in near future?
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Before we decide we're too good for the A10 we need to prove we're too good for the A10.
I mean, we all want to win all of the games we play. And the A10 tourney is no exception.

Should you not look for a new job with more pay, better benefits, more vacation, etc. until - and only until - you maximize your pay grade at your current job?

If you look at XU and Creighton, if we had their schedules (which could only happen in the BE or similar), we are a bubble team every year at worst.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
I mean, we all want to win all of the games we play. And the A10 tourney is no exception.

Should you not look for a new job with more pay, better benefits, more vacation, etc. until - and only until - you maximize your pay grade at your current job?

If you look at XU and Creighton, if we had their schedules (which could only happen in the BE or similar), we are a bubble team every year at worst.
Yeah, but it comes at a price. You are only a bubble team if you win your fair share of games. Trust me, the Big East is a highly-competitive league with a lot of parody. The BE is without a doubt a big step up from the A10. It is a very tough league. Even DePaul IMO was pretty tough this year. No easy games in that league.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
It's funny how Loyola Chicago made the NCAA tourney for the first time in 34 years (albeit they went to the Final Four) but suddenly everyone thinks they're this great program. George Mason went to a Final Four yet they're not mentioned. How do we know Loyola isn't going to go another 34 years without an NCAA appearance?
Loyola-Chicago has 4 finishes in the top-125 of Ken Pom since 2002. To give some context, Dayton has 16 in that time and Akron has 13.

There are probably 20 better prospects in the Midwest alone.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Trust me, the Big East is a highly-competitive league with a lot of parody.
par·i·ty — noun
1. The state or condition of being equal, especially regarding status.

par·o·dy — ˈnoun
1. An imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist or athlete exaggerated for comic effect.

I think you meant parity, but I like parody better. :-)
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
I mean, we all want to win all of the games we play. And the A10 tourney is no exception.

Should you not look for a new job with more pay, better benefits, more vacation, etc. until - and only until - you maximize your pay grade at your current job?

If you look at XU and Creighton, if we had their schedules (which could only happen in the BE or similar), we are a bubble team every year at worst.
It's always easier to get that promotion when people want you as opposed to when you want them. Which is why we have so much left to prove.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It's always easier to get that promotion when people want you as opposed to when you want them. Which is why we have so much left to prove.
Bing Bing Bing — We have a winner !!
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:39 PM
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I think it was about two years ago that many were saying the BE is weak and will be lucky to get 2-3 bids. So this year we are saying the A10 is weak. It is, this year.

Next year and the year after, not only will UD be stronger, but the whole league will be stronger. It appears to me that there are very few seniors starting for any team. Of the 15 guys on the all-conference, 13 could return next year. Only one player, Cunningham, is a senior on the top 3 teams this year. So next year the A10 could have 3-4 bids.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:45 PM
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Duquesne is going to be a beast next season.

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Old 03-16-2019, 08:26 AM
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Well . . . . That didn't help.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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Dayton Fans

Because of the big arena Dayton fans tend to vastly over estimate the Dayton Flyers and vastly under rate their Atlantic 10 competitors. I expect the same to hold true next year.

Yes, Dayton leads in fans but Dayton does not lead in talent and coaching.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:46 AM
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We should get off the sinking ship that is the A10, ignoring we just steered the ship into the iceberg ourselves last night.

The A10 will be a vastly improved league next year, back to a normal balance of top tier teams, with our usual bottom feeders as well. Dayton AND the league will be just fine.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
We should get off the sinking ship that is the A10, ignoring we just steered the ship into the iceberg ourselves last night.

The A10 will be a vastly improved league next year, back to a normal balance of top tier teams, with our usual bottom feeders as well. Dayton AND the league will be just fine.
We will see, 2 years in a row is the beginning of a trend.

2013...last year in the A10 for Charlotte, Temple, Butler, and Xavier.

2019...#12 rpi rank
2018...11
2017...8
2016...7
2015...7
2014...6

2013...7
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