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  #1  
Old 01-31-2019, 12:17 AM
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Is Archie in trouble?

Just lost 7th game in a row. Is the seat starting to warm?
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2019, 12:27 AM
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Having lived in Indiana for 12 years, I can tell you his seat is beyond warm - it is hot! I could see him remaining one more year and if there is no NCAA Sweet 16, he will be gone. They have no patience for coaches who cannot go deep into the tournament every year. Just look at their recent history and that says it all.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:51 AM
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https://247sports.com/college/indian...gers-128507043

Archie's post-game press conference. He always gives accolades to the opposition, which is good, but at some point he must get away from his "Hue Jackson-like" comments..."we need to keep getting better."
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:58 AM
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He has 4 years. Fans might perceive it as warm but AD needs to give him 4 years or other good catches would never come to IU. Archie will have IU back as a perennial top 15 program by year 4.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
He has 4 years. Fans might perceive it as warm but AD needs to give him 4 years or other good catches would never come to IU. Archie will have IU back as a perennial top 15 program by year 4.
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I would normally agree with this, that 4 years should be the standard.

But: A) this is IU, where coaching personnel issues are heavily "influenced" by former players, and B) those same former players have taken notice at what Mack has been able to do at Louisville in year 1.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:50 AM
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I could care less, but WTF...preseason expectations were high for IU

Andy Katz's preseason BIG prediction and summary:

4. Indiana: The Hoosiers may have two player of the year contenders in Juwan Morgan and Romeo Langford. If the Hoosiers are on board with Archie Miller’s defensive philosophy early and often, then Indiana will be a top-four team in the Big Ten.
Postseason prediction: NCAA

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...power-rankings

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ESPN Power Rankings

4. Indiana Hoosiers: Romeo Langford could become the face of college basketball if he elevates one of the game's most recognizable programs into conference-title contention. The McDonald's All-American and projected top-10 pick in next summer's NBA draft could lead a Hoosiers squad that deserves more praise as a potential sleeper in this league. Archie Miller will have Langford, Juwan Morgan and De'Ron Davis, who expects to enter the year ready for competition after suffering a torn Achilles last season. When Miller was at Dayton, he reached the Elite Eight with less.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...power-rankings

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The Athletic

Let’s hope Archie Miller has enjoyed his time in Bloomington because sh*t is about to get real. Indiana is firmly on the hype train. So much so that it’s difficult to remember the Hoosiers went 16-15 overall and 9-9 in the Big Ten last year, and, for all intents and purposes, still don’t have a tried-and-true point guard to rely on. As it stands, a bet on Indiana is a bet on Romeo Langford. Everyone knows Juwan Morgan is really, really good, but how good is Langford? I’m picking the Hoosiers for a second-place finish because, well, sometimes you roll the dice. I’m unsure if IU has the depth or the defense to finish this high, but it’s tough to bet against talent, and Morgan and Langford are about as talented as it gets in this league. Also, for the I-told-you-so files, I’m extremely high on freshman Jerome Hunter. Remember the name.

https://theathletic.com/577576/2018/...s-for-2018-19/
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Landgrant's BIG predictions:
5. Indiana

Of all the teams in the conference, Indiana is my wildcard. Archie’s Miller inaugural season at the helm ended in a 16-15 record. Will they be better than that this season? Oh yes. But, can they be one of the best in the conference? Having one of the hottest recruits in the 2018 recruiting class, Romeo Langford, certainly helps. Langford and his Hoosier compadres have Marquette early in the season, and then very winnable games with Arkansas and UT-Arlington. All of this is a tune up, of course, before they battle Duke. If Langford shines at Cameron Indoor, then watch out. Purdue’s Edwards is my favorite to be conference player of the year, but expect Langford to be in the conversation before the calendar flips to March. I’ve talked so much about Langford, that I’ve forgotten Juwan Morgan. A second-team All-Big Ten honoree last season by USBWA, Morgan was a top-10 scorer in the conference. Miller has a squad assembled in Bloomington, but can they mesh together sooner rather than later. I think there will be some growing pains in the early going — and may even include a bad non-conference loss. But around mid-January, this team is going to be cooking.

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Last edited by rollo; 01-31-2019 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
He has 4 years. Fans might perceive it as warm but AD needs to give him 4 years or other good catches would never come to IU. Archie will have IU back as a perennial top 15 program by year 4.
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Time will tell. Generally I agree he gets 4 years min but if next year is anything close to this year - all bet are off. Someone posted it elsewhere and I say the same thing. It is different recruiting the kids with a chip on their shoulder and getting the most out of them. It's another thing to get the blue chip kids and meet the high expectations. A one and done Romeo Langford was probably not the best fit for Archie and IU this year but it was vitally important to the fan base that the best player in Indiana end up in Bloomington.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:14 AM
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I wonder how Morgan likes Bloomington now? I would assume she spends a lot of time with Old Grandad and her long lost relative Jack Daniels.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:46 AM
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That 7 can easily turn into 10 with MSU, Iowa, OSU up next. Better get something figured out quick. He'll have at least another year but it better be a great one. I sometimes wonder about these programs that burn through coaches. At some point in time it's going to make people think twice about signing on the dotted line. Instead of bolting to UCLA or whatever just build the next Gonzaga or Butler.

When was the last great IU team? I can't recall, had to be before the RMK meltdown.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:54 AM
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The fact that they have grossly underperformed is the problem for Archie. IU was thought to be a Big Ten contender, but they look more like a bottom dweller. To put things in perspective, imagine UD fans reaction if we lost 7 straight and weren’t even competitive in most of them. All hail AG.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Time will tell. Generally I agree he gets 4 years min but if next year is anything close to this year - all bet are off. Someone posted it elsewhere and I say the same thing. It is different recruiting the kids with a chip on their shoulder and getting the most out of them. It's another thing to get the blue chip kids and meet the high expectations. A one and done Romeo Langford was probably not the best fit for Archie and IU this year but it was vitally important to the fan base that the best player in Indiana end up in Bloomington.
Keeping the best players in IN was certainly a fan-base directive when AM arrived. Not only did he get IN Mr. Basketball in this freshman class. He also got the #2 player and another finalist. They are all freshmen and helped make up the #7 recruiting class that I think has 5 or 6 players total. But two are out with injuries. AM delivered on the fan-directive to land IN kids - getting the top 2 and another top 5.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:04 AM
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Not sure if this is rumor or fact, but at the time people were saying UD matched or came very close to matching IU's offer. I remember thinking at the time that if that was true he was making a really bad decision.

The logic would be that he'd have an easier path to a NC with Indiana, but how ironic would it be if he doesn't even make a tourney with them? That would mean he came WAY closer to a national title at UD.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
He has 4 years. Fans might perceive it as warm but AD needs to give him 4 years or other good catches would never come to IU.
With the size of coaches egos these days there are still many who would take that job for the amount of money they are willing to pay regardless of how quick a trigger finger the AD has. One thing about college basketball coaches is they all think they can win no matter the circumstances, they certainly don't lack in confidence..
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:46 AM
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I felt bad when AM left us for IU but I have always felt that every "mid-major" coach is always looking for his next job upgrade until you reach and succeed at one of the top P5 programs. Therefore, I understood when he did what he did. Everyone has the right to better himself. Maybe when he was wearing red ties at UD games, that should have warned us.

I am sure the money plays a big part. Maybe he felt that inability to recruit top players to UD meant that he had taken UD as far as he could. I thank him for his effort and leadership and for putting us back in the college basketball spotlight.

Despite the rabid and disappointed IU fan base, which I am certain he had to be counselled on by his brother and \ or father, he may have felt that Indiana was a similar situation as when he came to UD and he could handle the fans. Take a past program at IU that had fallen, upgrade it and make it relevant again as he had done with UD. Certainly his recruiting options were greater.

Wake up Indiana fans and support the top coach you have and work with him and not against him.

He is a class act and deserves four years to bring Indiana back into prominence. Only one team can win the tournament but getting Indiana back deep into the tournament is a goal.

Now getting his players to buy into his defensive philosophy might take some doing and does not look promising when they let Rutgers go on a 22-0 run. I am pulling for him and hope to see the day when we beat them in the NCAA finals !!! It's okay to dream.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:46 AM
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Archie will lose his two best players, Morgan graduates and Langford turns pro. Besides that he has everyone of consequence back, and one excellent recruit for next year. I say he gets another year for sure, unless IU loses most of the rest of their games and the home game to Purdue. Problem is besides Rutgers, OSU and Iowa at home, they may lose the other seven.

Maybe OSU will hire him, as their coach will be on super probation next year.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:05 PM
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Why would Holtman be on "super probation" next year? Haven't heard any scandals up there, though I don't follow OSU basketball much; just whatever leaks over into their football coverage.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Why would Holtman be on "super probation" next year? Haven't heard any scandals up there, though I don't follow OSU basketball much; just whatever leaks over into their football coverage.
Super probation for his team's performance. However, I was saying it all a bit tongue in cheek.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:44 PM
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Friend of mine who is die hard Hoosier fan sent me a long sound clip from Dan Dakich's show. Wow, to listen to the clip just do a search on either Youtube or Google-
Dan Dakich on What is happening to Indian Basketball. (Sorry can't post link at work)
It is a 13 minute long absolute tirade over Archie's weak coaching and handling of Romeo Langford. He goes on to rip every member of the staff... Tom Ostrom, Bruiser Flint, Ed Shilling. He's essentially calling it a mistake to hire Archie and questions why a former Hoosier isn't running the program
Archie finishes at the bottom of the conference and the fans might force administration to make another move.
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER93 View Post
Friend of mine who is die hard Hoosier fan sent me a long sound clip from Dan Dakich's show. Wow, to listen to the clip just do a search on either Youtube or Google-
Dan Dakich on What is happening to Indian Basketball. (Sorry can't post link at work)
It is a 13 minute long absolute tirade over Archie's weak coaching and handling of Romeo Langford. He goes on to rip every member of the staff... Tom Ostrom, Bruiser Flint, Ed Shilling. He's essentially calling it a mistake to hire Archie and questions why a former Hoosier isn't running the program
Archie finishes at the bottom of the conference and the fans might force administration to make another move.
This (the Dakich link) was posted in the "Well, this was not good thread".

I don't give a lot of credence to Dakich. He's a goober that has agendas, biases and takes cheap shots
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:04 PM
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Todd Lickliter, 3 years at Iowa after leaving Butler, says hello.

I have a friend that lives in Indy, many there do not like Archie right now. He said that if things do not significantly improve, then next year might be the end of the line.
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:16 PM
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https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...on/2730796002/

"Will the soft touch work? Not sure it fits Miller’s style, to be honest. He’s a no-nonsense guy, a grinder, a winner as a player despite his small size, and a winner as a coach (at Dayton) by taking a roster full of overlooked recruits and turning them into something mean, something ferocious.

The Hoosiers have a better roster than Dayton ever had. But they’re not mean. Not ferocious. Archie's teams at Dayton would have eaten this IU team for lunch, and asked for another meal two hours later."
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:25 PM
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Archie's leash gets shorter every year they don't win the Big10 or make the Sweet 16, or both. Four years sounds about right - IU has a zero tolerance policy.

As for game attendance, their website states: "Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall holds 17,222 fans and is consistently sold out throughout the regular season." Right now they are averaging 15,800.


Talking about their website, the IU main website front page and UD's main website front page are similar in design - but worlds apart in quality. Shame on UD.
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:45 PM
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Reading some of the IU message board it sounds like the team has a chemistry issue. Sound familiar? If the players don't like each other or there are some players that don't buy in to what the coach wants/expects then stuff will happen. Are there some prima donnas on the team like AG had at UD his first year? I hope Archie gets a few more years to work through this but I like what I see AG is putting together.

https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/fo...hoop-forum.32/

Just take a look at some of the threads here.
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:55 PM
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Dan Dickish is an idiot. He got to zero NCAAs in 10+ years at Bowling Green and is stuck in about 1995 for coaching philosophy.

Archie would circles around this guy with the same team.

Give Archie 4 years and he will turn it around.
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:01 PM
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Hey Figstats!!

What is the longest losing streak at IU since 1980? I see they had a 9 game streak in 2011 but can Archie break a record in only his second season?
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:17 PM
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2008-09 - 2 streaks: lost 11 in a row, then 10 in a row (a "W" in between), under Crean.

2009-10 - lost 11 in a row under Crean.

2010-11 - lost 9 in a row under Crean.

Crean survived, went on to coach what, 9 years?

I believe Knight never lost more than 4 in a row, FWIW.
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
2008-09 - 2 streaks: lost 11 in a row, then 10 in a row (a "W" in between), under Crean.

2009-10 - lost 11 in a row under Crean.

2010-11 - lost 9 in a row under Crean.

Crean survived, went on to coach what, 9 years?

I believe Knight never lost more than 4 in a row, FWIW.
It's crazy that Crean survived the losing streaks but in the next 6 seasons didn't earn squat despite 2 BIG titles, 4 NCAATs and 3 Sweet 16s.
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Hey Figstats!!

What is the longest losing streak at IU since 1980? I see they had a 9 game streak in 2011 but can Archie break a record in only his second season?
Figstats doesn't care about IU basketball. UD all the way!
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:53 PM
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For the record, I can definitely state that Archie did not leave UD for the money.
Archie wanted to go to a top program where he can win a national championship. Period.

UD made a very attractive offer for his to stay. It was not the money.

Look at Anthony Davis in New Orleans. He is not looking for more money, but a ring.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:00 PM
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The tough Archie Bunker approach worked at UD with a bunch of underdog players with chips on their shoulders, it might not work with a bunch of 4 and 5 star players at IU who may need to be coddled more. I do not know.

Matta really seemed to do a lot of coddling at OSU.

Some of the higher rated players have bigger egos that require more management IMO.

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Old 01-31-2019, 05:07 PM
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I don't know, seemed like Archie had a number of players that needed coddling while at UD.


Don't follow IU to comment on the specifics, I was in the camp of people that thought he would "kill it" at Indiana. I wonder how much his "personality" affects the view IU fans and administration takes on him? Neither he nor his wife are exactly the "warmest" people in the college ranks, but given their love for The General, I figured Archie would fit right in. In the end, winning cures all ills, I still believe he will win at IU, however I haven't lost any sleep worrying about his success or failures.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I don't know, seemed like Archie had a number of players that needed coddling while at UD.
And legal representation...
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...on/2730796002/


“The Hoosiers have a better roster than Dayton ever had. But they’re not mean. Not ferocious. Archie's teams at Dayton would have eaten this IU team for lunch, and asked for another meal two hours later."
LOVE this quote. How true! Kendall would’ve asked for 2nds at the 2nd meal too.

Although I still think it’s too early to say the seat is hot, you know what Yogi Berra would’ve said: “It’s getting late early.”
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:10 PM
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Archie was great for UD. But he’s moved on, and so have I.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:17 PM
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https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john...it-is-culture/

I just read this earlier today after I saw how IU was doing... Not sure if this has been posted already, but it is a good read.

And I also agree with the sentiment that Archie is no longer our concern. Nice guy, great coach, I do not root against him. But I am not pulling for IU any more than I did before he got there. I have moved on as well.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:45 PM
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Not a rumor....

Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Not sure if this is rumor or fact, but at the time people were saying UD matched or came very close to matching IU's offer. I remember thinking at the time that if that was true he was making a really bad decision.

The logic would be that he'd have an easier path to a NC with Indiana, but how ironic would it be if he doesn't even make a tourney with them? That would mean he came WAY closer to a national title at UD.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john...it-is-culture/

I just read this earlier today after I saw how IU was doing... Not sure if this has been posted already, but it is a good read.

And I also agree with the sentiment that Archie is no longer our concern. Nice guy, great coach, I do not root against him. But I am not pulling for IU any more than I did before he got there. I have moved on as well.
Anyone who is impatient with Coach Grant, and what he went through and did by cleaning house, needs to read this. Beilein hits the nail on the head.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:40 AM
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If Archie has changed his style to fit the higher-ranked players he's getting, that's his biggest mistake.

Trying to be someone you're not, especially as a leader, doesn't normally work out too well.

I don't get the sense that Cal, K, Izzo, or Self coddle their star recruits. They put 'em through the ringer, as they should.

There were big-time coaches who didn't sniff around Langford. I believe part of the turn-off was an attitude of entitlement. (Based on quotes from Romeo and/or dad.)

I think Archie felt pressure to recruit him, probably knowing that he wasn't really his type of player. He'll learn from the mistake.

The benefits might be reaped by IU or maybe at his next stop if enough people start swallowing what Dakich is pouring down their throats.

If only IU was smart enough to hire a basketball genius like Dan!
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:14 AM
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After reading the Hoosier article linked above and reading the thoughts about coddling, the article on Jordan Sibert in the St Joe's game program came to mind.

AM was quoted several times
"The thing I loved about him was he allowed me to coach him hard. Because I was able to coach him hard, no one else in the room looked around funny when I said something to them...Jordan took the brunt of the coaching. He allowed me to get on the rest of the team by being able to be hard on him. And in return he put a lot of confidence in himself and pressure on himself to come through. He came motivated to deliver"

Sibert's contribution in the locker room was just as important as his play on the floor because it allowed the culture to be established.
I don't know if AM has changed his style or not. But, at Dayton, AM had his "highest rated" player with the desire to win and willingness to do whatever it took. I believe Sibert was the reason that AM was able to turn the corner. He doesn't have a star anywhere near that mindset at Indiana, so it might require a different approach.

Jordan was a bigger star than I realized at the time he was playing.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:38 PM
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I heart Jordan Sibert. And I think our next Sibert is sitting on the bench right now.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:54 PM
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Yes. He's in trouble. I like AG, but I'd take Archie back in a heartbeat.

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Old 02-01-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Yes. He's in trouble. I like AG, but I'd take Archie back in a heartbeat.
So you'd take him back, watch him immediately undo everything that AG has done to instill culture into the program, probably see multiple players transfer, start all over again, maybe see success in 3 yrs or so, just so he can use UD to get back on his feet for a more "prestigious" job once again?

No thanks. I don't him to have anything to do with Flyer basketball ever again.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
So you'd take him back, watch him immediately undo everything that AG has done to instill culture into the program, probably see multiple players transfer, start all over again, maybe see success in 3 yrs or so, just so he can use UD to get back on his feet for a more "prestigious" job once again?

No thanks. I don't him to have anything to do with Flyer basketball ever again.
Maybe IU should have hired you since you have such incredible foresight.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
So you'd take him back, watch him immediately undo everything that AG has done to instill culture into the program, probably see multiple players transfer, start all over again, maybe see success in 3 yrs or so, just so he can use UD to get back on his feet for a more "prestigious" job once again?

No thanks. I don't want him to have anything to do with Flyer basketball ever again.
Well said. Long term and short term - think we are in a much better place with AG.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:22 PM
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I know the real reason Archie left UD...

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Old 02-01-2019, 03:24 PM
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I like AM. Being from Pittsburgh and being aware of his family and what his brother Sean had done while playing at Pitt, I can only wish good things for him but the jury is still out as to whether he is a great coach or just a good coach.

Did AM catch lightning in a bottle or was his success the result of being a great coach? If AM had stayed with UD for another 4 years and had similar success with an entirely new set of core players, I would say you have to see AM as a great coach. If AM has success with Indiana I would say we lost a great coach but as of now I do not know.

AM did not go small ball or go with six scholarship players on purpose. It was not brilliant coaching that put him in the situation he was placed but rather the actions of dumb and dumber. Still he had success with what he was dealt but was this because he had a special group of players or because he was the magical elixer that brought them together. Probably a little of both but how much of both? How much credit goes to AM and how much to Davis, Pollard, Schooch and Pierre? We do not know and only by repetition with another different group of players will we even be able to make an educated guess.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
So you'd take him back, watch him immediately undo everything that AG has done to instill culture into the program, probably see multiple players transfer, start all over again, maybe see success in 3 yrs or so, just so he can use UD to get back on his feet for a more "prestigious" job once again?

No thanks. I don't him to have anything to do with Flyer basketball ever again.
Can't speak for JimBo, but how I interpret that is this: IF our HC position became available, for whatever reason (AG leaves, gets fired, retires, wins Powerball, etc.), that he would take back Archie in a heartbeat. I probably would too, regardless of how things at IU turnout for him (short of sanctions, ethical shortcomings or lack of moral compass issues).

I'm not sure JimBo is suggesting that he would take Archie back to replace AG sight unseen and regardless of where AG is in the progression of this program. THAT, I wouldn't agree with. For example, IU loses the rest of their games, Langford declares and Archie gets canned (highly unlikely), I don't think I'd support bringing Archie back to replace AG. AG is on the right track, as is this program.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:31 PM
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In other news, IU is in the "first four out" in Lunardi's latest bracket..........clearly "gaining steam"
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
In other news, IU is in the "first four out" in Lunardi's latest bracket..........clearly "gaining steam"
And after the Spartans pound them he will have the Hoosiers playing in Dayton.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:48 PM
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My previous post also leads me to question the issue of whether AM left the cupboard bare for the incoming coach. That is his current set of players were not on a par with the recruits that had graduated. Based on who these players were prior to matriculating to UD I would believe that we would say that AM had improved his recruiting. That is was the cupboard bare as in devoid of talent or was it just that the talent was under-developed?

So if you had a choice which recruit would you take?

1. PG Schooch vs the Minnesota PG. The Minnesota PG came in more highly touted but I would still give the edge to Schooch just because he is from New York City an they know how to grow great PGs there.

2. 2 Guard, Davis displayed hustle and speed and from Chicago but was undersized for the position and had no outside shot. Versus JD who is taller an has a decent outside shot, Recruiting edge to JD


3. Forward, an unknown player, Pieere, from Canada or a highly touted local recruit as Rollo might say a man's man in Trey Landers. Most on this board would prefer Trey.

4. Forward, A player from a good team in Chicago but not a star and undersized for the power forward position versus Xeryius again a highly touted local recruit. Most on this board would say take Xeryius.

If you want you can switch Xeryius to the small forward spot with Trey as they seem to be more adept at those roles.

5. Bench: Davis vs Kostas Who would not prefer, if you had a choice of just one, that it be Kostas as opposed to Davis.

6. Certainly the New Center that AM had recruited was going to be a project even if he had a good attitude and work ethic, and Carter was expected to be a project and the Czech would need a year to learn how to play american ball but then AM had no center and no bench beyond one for his best year. Edge by default goes to the new recruits.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
My previous post also leads me to question the issue of whether AM left the cupboard bare for the incoming coach. That is his current set of players were not on a par with the recruits that had graduated. Based on who these players were prior to matriculating to UD I would believe that we would say that AM had improved his recruiting. That is was the cupboard bare as in devoid of talent or was it just that the talent was under-developed?

So if you had a choice which recruit would you take?

1. PG Schooch vs the Minnesota PG. The Minnesota PG came in more highly touted but I would still give the edge to Schooch just because he is from New York City an they know how to grow great PGs there.

2. 2 Guard, Davis displayed hustle and speed and from Chicago but was undersized for the position and had no outside shot. Versus JD who is taller an has a decent outside shot, Recruiting edge to JD


3. Forward, an unknown player, Pieere, from Canada or a highly touted local recruit as Rollo might say a man's man in Trey Landers. Most on this board would prefer Trey.

4. Forward, A player from a good team in Chicago but not a star and undersized for the power forward position versus Xeryius again a highly touted local recruit. Most on this board would say take Xeryius.

If you want you can switch Xeryius to the small forward spot with Trey as they seem to be more adept at those roles.

5. Bench: Davis vs Kostas Who would not prefer, if you had a choice of just one, that it be Kostas as opposed to Davis.

6. Certainly the New Center that AM had recruited was going to be a project even if he had a good attitude and work ethic, and Carter was expected to be a project and the Czech would need a year to learn how to play american ball but then AM had no center and no bench beyond one for his best year. Edge by default goes to the new recruits.
I love what Trey brings to the table with this team and he's a favorite of mine, but I can't imagine taking Trey over Pierre. And I'm having a little trouble following all of your train of thought here, since you don't use actual names in each scenario, but at the power forward position I assume you're talking about Pollard and I'm taking Pollard over Xeryius every time as well.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
And after the Spartans pound them he will have the Hoosiers playing in Dayton.
He has IU playing in Dayton, as of today.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:21 PM
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There is no way in hades I would want AM back. How many D1 coaches returned to coach at the same school they had previously coached? I cannot think of one. IF AG is not successful in the next 3 years and a change in coaches is warranted and AM wanted to come back the contract would be for 20 years and if he left one day sooner for another school he would owe UD back every penny of salary earned. And we could fire him at any time with no penalty.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:45 PM
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Fine line in coaching. If Aaron Craft's shot goes in, I doubt Archie is the head coach of Indiana right now. It didnt, and he is, but better coaches have found harder luck in ladder moves just as worse coaches have climbed it faster. The margins are very thin. You have to make some of your own luck, but you also need Lady Luck to randomly choose you on certain days as well.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
There is no way in hades I would want AM back. How many D1 coaches returned to coach at the same school they had previously coached? I cannot think of one. IF AG is not successful in the next 3 years and a change in coaches is warranted and AM wanted to come back the contract would be for 20 years and if he left one day sooner for another school he would owe UD back every penny of salary earned. And we could fire him at any time with no penalty.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
My previous post also leads me to question the issue of whether AM left the cupboard bare for the incoming coach. That is his current set of players were not on a par with the recruits that had graduated. Based on who these players were prior to matriculating to UD I would believe that we would say that AM had improved his recruiting. That is was the cupboard bare as in devoid of talent or was it just that the talent was under-developed?

So if you had a choice which recruit would you take?

1. PG Schooch vs the Minnesota PG. The Minnesota PG came in more highly touted but I would still give the edge to Schooch just because he is from New York City an they know how to grow great PGs there.

2. 2 Guard, Davis displayed hustle and speed and from Chicago but was undersized for the position and had no outside shot. Versus JD who is taller an has a decent outside shot, Recruiting edge to JD


3. Forward, an unknown player, Pieere, from Canada or a highly touted local recruit as Rollo might say a man's man in Trey Landers. Most on this board would prefer Trey.

4. Forward, A player from a good team in Chicago but not a star and undersized for the power forward position versus Xeryius again a highly touted local recruit. Most on this board would say take Xeryius.

If you want you can switch Xeryius to the small forward spot with Trey as they seem to be more adept at those roles.

5. Bench: Davis vs Kostas Who would not prefer, if you had a choice of just one, that it be Kostas as opposed to Davis.

6. Certainly the New Center that AM had recruited was going to be a project even if he had a good attitude and work ethic, and Carter was expected to be a project and the Czech would need a year to learn how to play american ball but then AM had no center and no bench beyond one for his best year. Edge by default goes to the new recruits.

Didn't Pierre graduate the season before Archie left?


Schoochie was the man, and a perfect fit at UD. Wright was considered a top 50 player at the start of the season and considered a future NBA PG. I haven't followed Colorado much, but IIRC he was struggling with his shot early on. Where he is now, I don't know, but you can't really compare many frosh but the 1 and dones to the Senior Schooch, Scooch will win every time. Perhaps McKinley get there over 2-3 seasons; McKinley had a much better frosh season at CU than Schooch did here. Crutch is very similar to Schooch in my mind, even in their progression over their first 2 seasons; I think Crutch may be a shade better, mostly from the perimeter than Schooch was as a soph. We'll call this a push



Darrel Davis (who I assume you meant) was from Detroit vs Jordan Davis. Jordan is more physical than Darrel ever was, but either way he was an Archie recruit so can't give AG credit for that one.


Charles Cook vs who? Trey was an Archie recruit, as was Chips.


Pollard vs Obi... I love Pollard, loved him. Obi has NBA potential that Kendal could only dream of. Kendal was a great college player, but his frame was always going to make the league a dream. Obi has a real shot. Advantage CAG.


Josh vs who? Too early to compare Josh to anyone that CAG has brought in.


Bench: Kyle Davis vs ????


Did Archie leave the cupboard bear? It was going to be tough for Archie, or any coach for that matter to replace the winning-est class in school's history. However Archie left a ton of "headaches" behind. Matej, Kostas, Jordan Pierce, X, Crosby...Don't exactly see anyone wishing they were still around. I'll take Crutch, Obi and Cohill over that group every day of the week; next season is the real litmus test of CAG. A full team, all either his recruit or been around long enough to "get with the program" and be "his players" May have as much talent as any team UD has had in a long time, will CAG be able to lead them to the NCAA? Anything short of that feels like a failure at this point looking forward. But lets enjoy this season first, see how they develop and what kind of potholes the offseason brings the program.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
How many D1 coaches returned to coach at the same school they had previously coached? I cannot think of one.
East Carolina hc Joe Dooley.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I’m sure Archie would say about this picture...”Why go looking for hamburger when you have steak at home.”
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Old 02-01-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Fine line in coaching. If Aaron Craft's shot goes in, I doubt Archie is the head coach of Indiana right now. It didnt, and he is, but better coaches have found harder luck in ladder moves just as worse coaches have climbed it faster. The margins are very thin. You have to make some of your own luck, but you also need Lady Luck to randomly choose you on certain days as well.
Heck, if Davis is called for traveling in the first game of that season, or Seibert's shot doesn't fall, Dayton loses to Ft. Wayne and there is no NCAA that year.
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I love what Trey brings to the table with this team and he's a favorite of mine, but I can't imagine taking Trey over Pierre. And I'm having a little trouble following all of your train of thought here, since you don't use actual names in each scenario, but at the power forward position I assume you're talking about Pollard and I'm taking Pollard over Xeryius every time as well.
Sure I do not doubt you would take Pollard and Pierre over the two Wayne HS Grads after the fact. The point I was making is that if you had a choice of only one each prior to any of them playing a single game for UD which would you recruit. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.

My train of thought is that how can some one say AM left the cupboard bare if the recruits he expected to be on his team if he had remained coach at UD were in all but one case, if given a choice, recruited over the the recruits who ended up making his success.
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
There is no way in hades I would want AM back. How many D1 coaches returned to coach at the same school they had previously coached? I cannot think of one. IF AG is not successful in the next 3 years and a change in coaches is warranted and AM wanted to come back the contract would be for 20 years and if he left one day sooner for another school he would owe UD back every penny of salary earned. And we could fire him at any time with no penalty.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Yes. He's in trouble. I like AG, but I'd take Archie back in a heartbeat.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Lord knows I appreciate the success we had while Archie was here, but the more I learn about the culture he developed within the program, the more I like what I see out of AG, the team we have, and the guys we have coming in.

The fact that Dumb and Dumber would, as Juniors (and in Archie’s 4th year as HC), be breaking into girls’ dorm rooms and stealing stuff. The fact that “True Team” pretty much detonated over “Girlfriend-Gate” in 2015-16, and whatever effort Archie put toward re-unifying the team after that was obviously and woefully insufficient. Looking back, those were signs of an “inmates running the asylum” culture. When your “inmates” are named Sibert, Oliver, and Sanford, that’s fine. Once the “inmates” had names like Robinson and Scott? Not so much.

I’m not ungrateful for the Elite Eight run, or the year of The Magnificent Seven. I appreciate all that those teams did to shine a positive light on both the program and the university as a whole. But one could argue that the program had already peaked under Archie, and that his next 4 years were not likely to bring the same level of success that the previous 4 years had brought. And without that “dedication to the program” mindset that Archie promoted in his first 3-4 years, it’s very possible that the next 3-4 years would have been far less successful. AG seems to be all about “dedication to the program”, and given where he is in his overall career, I think that will be his mindset for as long as he’s our HC. And for as much as people on this board (rightfully, IMHO) want us to model programs like Gonzaga, Butler, and (cough, gag, sputter) Xavier, perhaps we are now, finally, truly building that “program” mindset.

In short, thanks for the memories, Archie, but you go your way and we’ll go ours. And best wishes to us all.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:45 PM
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Sorry, but any talk of CAG out the door in the next two and AM back in is nonsense.

We can be critical of some things with CAG, but we can't be critical of many things. These guys are on a short bench and playing as a team. All reports state the the guys in sweats this year are going to have an impact next. The players slated on be on board in the next few years are just as high, if not higher, than AM's.

CAG has restored the class to UDMBB that lacked under AM. Sure, there may be an off the court incident under CAG at some point in time but look at the odds under AM for a player to be involved in off court conduct. There were more off court incidents under him in his short tenure than anyone EVER before. That isn't an accident. Pierre, Kav, Dumb and Dumber, Derenbecker, Miller...take the internal things that went on that didn't make a newspaper. I could go on and on. Trust me when I say no matter how tight of a lid a coach tries to have with his team, they have friends that talk that aren't on the team. There aren't any rumors of player issues in house. There aren't rumors of bad attitudes. There aren't rumors of guys knocking around with others girlfriends. The players under AM weren't even liked by peer student athletes due to the "we are king sh!t" attitude they had on campus and interacting with other athletes.

You can sustain short term success with taking risks like AM did. Eventually it will catch up with you and the program. I think he was able to get players to play for him due to his personality. He has fire. I like that and so do players. There also has to be balance.

UD is a place where you are expected to win the right way. I think CAG will get there. I am not 100% sold on certain things, but that doesn't get away from the fact there are realities he is dealing with. I ask anyone who has coached at any level, who has tried to switch systems or philosophies, tell me they were able to successfully to it in a short period of time...and I will call them a liar. It doesn't happen and it surely doesn't happen with high level athletes against high level competition coming off of the AAU and HS circuit. Very few college freshman have ever ran a system other than 5 or 4 out motion offense against subpar competition. D1 hoops is a totally different animal.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:28 AM
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Let's see;

Head Coach at IU, $4 MILLION PER YEAR, married to Morgan. No, I don't see any problems.

But seriously, while I'm not particularly rooting for the miller's, Indiana fans have to realize this is not your Bob Knight era IU basketball. And, in all likelihood, it never will be again in my lifetime...I'm 49.

With that said, Archie will end up getting fired and ran out of town, it's just they way it works now. Maybe its,next year, maybe it's in three more seasons, but he should enjoy it while he can.

In the end, I'm only rooting for Anthony Grant and My Dayton Flyers; as I have no worries about silly over the hill IU basketball.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Sorry, but any talk of CAG out the door in the next two and AM back in is nonsense.

We can be critical of some things with CAG, but we can't be critical of many things. These guys are on a short bench and playing as a team. All reports state the the guys in sweats this year are going to have an impact next. The players slated on be on board in the next few years are just as high, if not higher, than AM's.

CAG has restored the class to UDMBB that lacked under AM. Sure, there may be an off the court incident under CAG at some point in time but look at the odds under AM for a player to be involved in off court conduct. There were more off court incidents under him in his short tenure than anyone EVER before. That isn't an accident. Pierre, Kav, Dumb and Dumber, Derenbecker, Miller...take the internal things that went on that didn't make a newspaper. I could go on and on. Trust me when I say no matter how tight of a lid a coach tries to have with his team, they have friends that talk that aren't on the team. There aren't any rumors of player issues in house. There aren't rumors of bad attitudes. There aren't rumors of guys knocking around with others girlfriends. The players under AM weren't even liked by peer student athletes due to the "we are king sh!t" attitude they had on campus and interacting with other athletes.

You can sustain short term success with taking risks like AM did. Eventually it will catch up with you and the program. I think he was able to get players to play for him due to his personality. He has fire. I like that and so do players. There also has to be balance.

UD is a place where you are expected to win the right way. I think CAG will get there. I am not 100% sold on certain things, but that doesn't get away from the fact there are realities he is dealing with. I ask anyone who has coached at any level, who has tried to switch systems or philosophies, tell me they were able to successfully to it in a short period of time...and I will call them a liar. It doesn't happen and it surely doesn't happen with high level athletes against high level competition coming off of the AAU and HS circuit. Very few college freshman have ever ran a system other than 5 or 4 out motion offense against subpar competition. D1 hoops is a totally different animal.
Anyone who wouldn’t sacrifice a few incidents for e8 runs is crazy. Anyone trying to lump Pierre and derenbecker in with those incidents should re-evaluate their life. One had a serious mental issue that none of us knew of and the other was suspended for lack of judgement on another persons part. What happened to Pierre, and possibly Kav, could have happened to many students at ud. Miller and the two who were breaking into rooms I’d agree.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Anyone who wouldn’t sacrifice a few incidents for e8 runs is crazy. Anyone trying to lump Pierre and derenbecker in with those incidents should re-evaluate their life. One had a serious mental issue that none of us knew of and the other was suspended for lack of judgement on another persons part. What happened to Pierre, and possibly Kav, could have happened to many students at ud. Miller and the two who were breaking into rooms I’d agree.
This provides a reasonable perspective. Very fair.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Let's see;

Head Coach at IU, $4 MILLION PER YEAR, married to Morgan. No, I don't see any problems.

But seriously, while I'm not particularly rooting for the miller's, Indiana fans have to realize this is not your Bob Knight era IU basketball. And, in all likelihood, it never will be again in my lifetime...I'm 49.

With that said, Archie will end up getting fired and ran out of town, it's just they way it works now. Maybe its,next year, maybe it's in three more seasons, but he should enjoy it while he can.

In the end, I'm only rooting for Anthony Grant and My Dayton Flyers; as I have no worries about silly over the hill IU basketball.
Great post- I wonder if it has remotely crossed Archie's mind that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. It's too new to say his job security is threatened, but at UD he never received this kind of criticism from the media. Think about it- in his first ever head coaching job he was the frickin king of the universe (just below Rollo of course), knew he could get back to the Sweet 16 or better, had the ultimate in job security and support, outstanding facilities, and was making millions over his brief career. I understand career ambition but still. When is enough enough when it comes to moving from the right place for you and your family? I know the answer, but just trying to make a point.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Anyone who wouldn’t sacrifice a few incidents for e8 runs is crazy.
There were a heck of a lot more than a 'few'. But only a 'few' were made public.
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Anyone who wouldn’t sacrifice a few incidents for e8 runs is crazy. Anyone trying to lump Pierre and derenbecker in with those incidents should re-evaluate their life. One had a serious mental issue that none of us knew of and the other was suspended for lack of judgement on another persons part. What happened to Pierre, and possibly Kav, could have happened to many students at ud. Miller and the two who were breaking into rooms I’d agree.
Reread the part about what didn't make papers.

There was plenty of things that involved a player that didn't deal with mental illness. One was habitual in treatment of women. I will let you figure out which two of the three were what.

I don't need to re-evaluate anything. There is plenty that went on that you wouldn't have seen on a message board or in the DDN. If you know that info, then you wouldn't be defending the actions of anyone.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Reread the part about what didn't make papers.

There was plenty of things that involved a player that didn't deal with mental illness. One was habitual in treatment of women. I will let you figure out which two of the three were what.

I don't need to re-evaluate anything. There is plenty that went on that you wouldn't have seen on a message board or in the DDN. If you know that info, then you wouldn't be defending the actions of anyone.
Know of at least 1 incident that didn't make the papers that was said to be "an honest mistake."
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Old 02-02-2019, 09:41 PM
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Guess we can close this thread to IU Wins at #6 Mich St. or it could be his contract that runs until 2024.
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Old 02-02-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Guess we can close this thread to IU Wins at #6 Mich St. or it could be his contract that runs until 2024.
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One game does not a season make, but his Hoosiers definitely “gained steam” with today’s win at #6 MSU.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Reread the part about what didn't make papers.

There was plenty of things that involved a player that didn't deal with mental illness. One was habitual in treatment of women. I will let you figure out which two of the three were what.

I don't need to re-evaluate anything. There is plenty that went on that you wouldn't have seen on a message board or in the DDN. If you know that info, then you wouldn't be defending the actions of anyone.
Yet the UD administration was reportedly willing to match what IU was offering, so UD did not seem all that bordered by all of this stuff then. No?

If they were so bothered, then why didn't they fire Archie or unequivocally demand that he clean up his act?

I just don't get all the hate for AM. He is not the first coach to maybe be less than forthright about his future plans, but I just don't think that coaches say stuff like that deliberately in order to deceive the fans. Those type of questions are hard to answer without ticking off somebody, it's a no-win situation, no matter what you say, somebody is going to get ticked off. Some coaches just handle those questions better than others do I guess.

Clearly many on here are cheering for him to fail. He took a higher-profile job, something that many on here also would have done. Get over it and wish him well.

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Old 02-03-2019, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Guess we can close this thread to IU Wins at #6 Mich St. or it could be his contract that runs until 2024.
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You are not supposed to post something like that in this thread, this thread is only for posts bashing Archie, who just beat the Kempom #4 team on the road.

We will see if Archie adapts his tough style or not at IU, I still think that he will succeed at IU eventually.

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Old 02-03-2019, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
And after the Spartans pound them he will have the Hoosiers playing in Dayton.
Quite a pounding...
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yet the UD administration was reportedly willing to match what IU was offering, so UD did not seem all that bordered by all of this stuff then. No?

If they were so bothered, then why didn't they fire Archie or unequivocally demand that he clean up his act?

I just don't get all the hate for AM. He is not the first coach to maybe be less than forthright about his future plans, but I just don't think that coaches say stuff like that deliberately in order to deceive the fans. Those type of questions are hard to answer without ticking off somebody, it's a no-win situation, no matter what you say, somebody is going to get ticked off. Some coaches just handle those questions better than others do I guess.

Clearly many on here are cheering for him to fail. He took a higher-profile job, something that many on here also would have done. Get over it and wish him well.
UD wasn't firing a coach that just had the results as AM. This isn't some big player school that is in a position to randomly fire coaches unless they are egregious in their behavior or simply under perform for an extended period of time. UD was in a power position to make an offer, and tighten up the details with that contract should he have stayed. I am willing to bet the conversations already happened with Archie to clean up the BS...which made the decision easy for Archie to leave. He probably told himself..."Well, it was fun...but I can't take the chances I just took or I will be looking for work". Yes, it was a paper chase on UD's part. They weren't going to keep him, but had the ability to match, and every insider knew he wasn't going to be here forever. I knew he was gone and assumed it would have be OSU or an mid level ACC school before IU. Didn't know when, but knew it was going to happen. Everything he said was coach speak. Who cares? I am not going to **** on my employer while I am still employed.

I appreciate what he did here. I have no hate for AM, but rather I can sit back and appreciate what we have now. I did not care for the off the court attention that UD got.
I didn't care for the behavior that went on, mainly in his first three seasons. UD basketball is bigger than Archie Miller. Always was and always will be. I don't care what he does at IU. Don't wish him to fail, but don't care if he beats the brakes off the rest of the Big 10.

You have a change in athletic administration at UD as well as a coaching staff. You also saw a change in AM's players when a new athletic staff was appointed. I am willing to bet you don't see issues like you did in years 1-3 with AM. The powers to be won't stand for it regardless of the output.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:40 AM
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Once a coach is gone, I view the most important question as "what is best for our program moving forward?"

That is almost always going to be for the coach to have success and have their previous success at UD mentioned periodically. It's just good advertising for the program during a broadcast in which we would not have otherwise been mentioned. While limited, some is better than none.

If Archie gets Indiana into the tournament and makes a run, the E8 UD run will likely be mentioned every game. I'm rooting for that.

I don't condone any behavior that puts another student at risk... especially a female. I hope Archie has grown and continues to do so. I cannot change the past but if there is a way to benefit in the future, I will generally look to do so.

So I hope he succeeds. Of course, I am also rooting for BG to win at USF.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Quite a pounding...
Yea, that was a unexpected. If the Hoosiers can do just reasonably well the rest of the way the MSU win could pave their way to the Dance.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Yea, that was a unexpected. If the Hoosiers can do just reasonably well the rest of the way the MSU win could pave their way to the Dance.
No offense to AM- but unless they go on a major winning streak-no way do they belong in the dance this year when they stand in 10-11th place in the Big10, especially after a 7 game losing streak. They play their way in, great. MSU literally gave that game away by shooting 8/22 from the foul line. Like others have said I thank AM for putting UD on the national map repeatedly and wish him the best but AG is the UD coach now and its a new era.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
No offense to AM- but unless they go on a major winning streak-no way do they belong in the dance this year

Agree, but belonging and getting in are two different things.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Agree, but belonging and getting in are two different things.
I think the Big 10 probably averages 6-7 each year. I think IU is maybe tied for 10. If they somehow get into the top 7...I really dont think any team from any conference deserves to get in at 7th best especially if they have a losing league record. But I don’t make the rules...
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:01 PM
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IU's current NET ranking is 45, ranked 8th in the BIG
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
You are not supposed to post something like that in this thread, this thread is only for posts bashing Archie, who just beat the Kempom #4 team on the road.

We will see if Archie adapts his tough style or not at IU, I still think that he will succeed at IU eventually.
Ya that great defense Archie designed against the Spartans 8-22 FT shooting was something else. huh?
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Ya that great defense Archie designed against the Spartans 8-22 FT shooting was something else. huh?

I'm pretty sure we could "gain steam" against the top teams in the country if we could goaltend on FT's. 8-22 but IU is gaining steam? That's terrible. They got 1 lucky win after losing 7 in a row.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I'm pretty sure we could "gain steam" against the top teams in the country if we could goaltend on FT's. 8-22 but IU is gaining steam? That's terrible. They got 1 lucky win after losing 7 in a row.
Exactly my point.....Yes, a great W as it goes in the books as that but it wasn't some great coaching clinic by Archie....
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:18 AM
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IU is on tenuous ground re: at-large selection, but probably on the good side right now, despite a 7 game losing streak. They'll have plenty of opps down the stretch to pick up some other good wins too. Their NET number is decent, they have some other quality wins already and they have one of the best wins that any at-large team will post on their resume (short of Cuse at Duke): W @MichSt.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:33 AM
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The IU win was nothing more than Spartan collusion so that IU got a good win and will significantly help their chances to get in the field of 64 leaving out another "mid-major" undesirable. I wouldn't be surprised if the bed Archie slept in was urinated on by Tom Izzo. We need an investigation.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:52 AM
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IU started out 12-2 then hit the 7 straight losses. 5 of those were on the road. Of the two home games, one was against #5/6 Michgan. They pick up an upset win on the road in OT against MSU to Launch their “home-stretch” run. Six of their last nine games are at home. The road games are Iowa, Illinois and Minn. I’ve also heard they have had a bunch of players out with injury and some are getting healthy, but I haven’t followed close enough to know all those details.

Their conference schedule has been tougher (opponents and travel) in the first half and more favorable in the last half - in some ways UDs has been the opposite in set up. I don’t think UD would have lost 7 in a row, but when you get into a 2-3 game rut - even against teams you weren’t expected to beat, it can lead to losing one or two you should have won. I think that’s what Indian has done.

AM & Company has to find a way to use the MSU upset to turn this thing around and make a run these last 9 games, which is a more favorable schedule. I’m not sure you want to bet against him. I didn’t want AM to leave. I didn’t think Kostas should have left when he did. But now that both are gone, whatever success they have going forward gives Dayton great publicity, so I’ll root for IN to make the NCAAs as an at-large team this year. I hope they get on a roll.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
IU started out 12-2 then hit the 7 straight losses. 5 of those were on the road. Of the two home games, one was against #5/6 Michgan. They pick up an upset win on the road in OT against MSU to Launch their “home-stretch” run. Six of their last nine games are at home. The road games are Iowa, Illinois and Minn. I’ve also heard they have had a bunch of players out with injury and some are getting healthy, but I haven’t followed close enough to know all those details.

Their conference schedule has been tougher (opponents and travel) in the first half and more favorable in the last half - in some ways UDs has been the opposite in set up. I don’t think UD would have lost 7 in a row, but when you get into a 2-3 game rut - even against teams you weren’t expected to beat, it can lead to losing one or two you should have won. I think that’s what Indian has done.

AM & Company has to find a way to use the MSU upset to turn this thing around and make a run these last 9 games, which is a more favorable schedule. I’m not sure you want to bet against him. I didn’t want AM to leave. I didn’t think Kostas should have left when he did. But now that both are gone, whatever success they have going forward gives Dayton great publicity, so I’ll root for IN to make the NCAAs as an at-large team this year. I hope they get on a roll.

You are a bigger person than many of us. You have the right attitude. Still, I never liked Bobby Knight, Tom Crean or IU at all. I have no problem adding Archie Miller to that list.
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  #90  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:17 PM
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Interesting that IU got it done with their best player hurt for most of the MSU game. Sounds like some good coaching.
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
You are a bigger person than many of us. You have the right attitude. Still, I never liked Bobby Knight, Tom Crean or IU at all. I have no problem adding Archie Miller to that list.
True confessions...I’m not really in the good luck to Kostas boat. I think he made a huge mistake not staying one more year. But he probably saw the writing on the wall with Obi out-performing him in practice last year. You add that to the mix of not being an AG guy and hating the academic requirements, he probably made the right decision for himself. It is what it is. Just hopeful he does not harm to UD and if he makes a go of it, good for him. I’m more inclined to think AM will succeed before KA does tho. Just my gut feeling
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  #92  
Old 02-04-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Interesting that IU got it done with their best player hurt for most of the MSU game. Sounds like some good coaching.
I think Archie's 8-22 FT defense was more impactful than any personnel absence.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:40 PM
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:23 AM
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Spent the last four days in Indiana visiting a very sick relative. On Monday morning we had to park so far from the front door there was a shuttle car to take us. The driver asked where we were from, and then asked whether we were Duke, UNC or NC ST fans. After telling him I am 100% UD, the conversation turned to Archie. He said that the jury is still out after last year, but he was disappointed at the way Archie handled the players' girlfriend problems. What? Again?

Reportedly Devonte Green "hit on" stud freshman, Romeo Langford's, girlfriend. It split the team apart and blew Langford out of the water. I wondered why Langford seemed so lackluster at times, and Archie's team was so inconsistent. I related to this guy that Archie went through the same thing at Dayton. The guy responded that then Archie had experience and should have handled it better.

How does any coach or player handle that kind of stuff really well? I suspect that Archie's suspension of Green could have been related to this incident.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Spent the last four days in Indiana visiting a very sick relative. On Monday morning we had to park so far from the front door there was a shuttle car to take us. The driver asked where we were from, and then asked whether we were Duke, UNC or NC ST fans. After telling him I am 100% UD, the conversation turned to Archie. He said that the jury is still out after last year, but he was disappointed at the way Archie handled the players' girlfriend problems. What? Again?

Reportedly Devonte Green "hit on" stud freshman, Romeo Langford's, girlfriend. It split the team apart and blew Langford out of the water. I wondered why Langford seemed so lackluster at times, and Archie's team was so inconsistent. I related to this guy that Archie went through the same thing at Dayton. The guy responded that then Archie had experience and should have handled it better.

How does any coach or player handle that kind of stuff really well? I suspect that Archie's suspension of Green could have been related to this incident.
HUGE Year for Him... I think he has to make the tourney this season or his seat becomes scalding hot
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:42 AM
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I liked Archie, what he did for our program, the memories that his teams afforded us, many of which are preserved and can all be seen on YouTube if you probe long enough.

But he left for brighter lights and more wampum. The off the court team chemistry is his issue to solve and at least partly why he is paid the big bucks.

The other way Arch can solve the team discord is to chalk up barrels of wins and trophies.
That's the only thing Big Money is fretting over anyway. And to those issues he has flunked to date.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Spent the last four days in Indiana visiting a very sick relative. On Monday morning we had to park so far from the front door there was a shuttle car to take us. The driver asked where we were from, and then asked whether we were Duke, UNC or NC ST fans. After telling him I am 100% UD, the conversation turned to Archie. He said that the jury is still out after last year, but he was disappointed at the way Archie handled the players' girlfriend problems. What? Again?

Reportedly Devonte Green "hit on" stud freshman, Romeo Langford's, girlfriend. It split the team apart and blew Langford out of the water. I wondered why Langford seemed so lackluster at times, and Archie's team was so inconsistent. I related to this guy that Archie went through the same thing at Dayton. The guy responded that then Archie had experience and should have handled it better.

How does any coach or player handle that kind of stuff really well? I suspect that Archie's suspension of Green could have been related to this incident.
Drove to Bloomington from Indy last month...had not been there in 30 years...campus was quiet as summer session is on...about halfway there, route 37 turns into Interstate route 69, which was very convenient...the fraternity and sorority housing area was impressive, real nice houses all grouped together...ate at Mother Bear's pizza on East 3rd Street...didn't see any Fire Archie! signs or billboards, not yet at least
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:30 AM
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:47 AM
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Just because you are a good X/O coach and you can recruit 4 star players does not automatically grant you the ability to have team harmony. Talent on the court can only get you so far but if your players cannot stand each other then practices will suffer and so will play on the court.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Spent the last four days in Indiana visiting a very sick relative. On Monday morning we had to park so far from the front door there was a shuttle car to take us. The driver asked where we were from, and then asked whether we were Duke, UNC or NC ST fans. After telling him I am 100% UD, the conversation turned to Archie. He said that the jury is still out after last year, but he was disappointed at the way Archie handled the players' girlfriend problems. What? Again?

Reportedly Devonte Green "hit on" stud freshman, Romeo Langford's, girlfriend. It split the team apart and blew Langford out of the water. I wondered why Langford seemed so lackluster at times, and Archie's team was so inconsistent. I related to this guy that Archie went through the same thing at Dayton. The guy responded that then Archie had experience and should have handled it better.

How does any coach or player handle that kind of stuff really well? I suspect that Archie's suspension of Green could have been related to this incident.
Archie must have had flashbacks of Scoochie and Cooke when he found out about this.
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