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Old 02-11-2019, 11:08 AM
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Off Topic: Player bites another player during game - How should Coaches & Referees React?

This happened during my granddaughter's Dayton Metro 6th grade basketball game this weekend.

It occurred during a tie-up over a loose ball. Our player was bitten on her forearm.

Our player who was bitten did not let us know until once she came to the bench. The coach has her show the bite mark to the referees. The referees advise the opposing team what happened but that was the extent of it.

Should have anything else been done?

What if anything can be done after the fact? The league director has been notified with a picture of the bite.

Moderator if this needs to be moved due to it being off-topic please do so. I was hoping King Rollo could provide his insight.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by O Doyle Rules View Post
This happened during my granddaughter's Dayton Metro 6th grade basketball game this weekend.

It occurred during a tie-up over a loose ball. Our player was bitten on her forearm.

Our player who was bitten did not let us know until once she came to the bench. The coach has her show the bite mark to the referees. The referees advise the opposing team what happened but that was the extent of it.

Should have anything else been done?

What if anything can be done after the fact? The league director has been notified with a picture of the bite.

Moderator if this needs to be moved due to it being off-topic please do so. I was hoping King Rollo could provide his insight.
Nothing surprises me these days.

Here's the deal: You can't call something you don't see. Despite evidence like bite marks (or scratches, etc...) it's hard to say "#22 says that #12 bit her" and then eject #12 for what I would consider a flagrant technical.

So, by the Rules, your hands are tied behind your back. But because it's Metro and not OHSAA, you have the ability to stretch the rules under the guise of 'safety first'.

So, what would I do??? I'd call the coach over and tell him what I was just told and ask him to respond. 99% of coaches wouldn't hesitate to remove the player for the rest of the game. But there are exceptions. I'd have to think that this didn't come out of nowhere (meaning the biter probably was acting out in other ways during the game and had the ref's attention) so if the coach failed to discipline her, in my own little way, I'd discipline her with touch-foul after touch-foul and travel after travel. At some point she'd either foul out or have so many turnovers the coach would have to take her out.

Admittedly, what you describe is a TOUGH situation. The last thing I want to see is retaliation, which in today's game is realistic! I've heard more than one parent yell at their kid to 'throw an elbow' or 'take them down' which is nothing short of disturbing. But it's a fact. As I've told the queen (and Priders over and over) 90% of parents will ruin everything their kid does if given the chance.

This weekend was another eye-opener for me...had my 1st ejection (6th grade girls) and actually had a 2nd grade coach call a timeout less than 1 minute into a game to make his 9 year olds run half-court sprints!


UGH!
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:34 AM
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In my neck of the woods back in '61 that kid wouldn't have made it home after school lump and bruise free, and faced more of the same at home. End of problem.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:56 PM
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I’d expect the kid will be offered by Xavier!
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:00 PM
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Nothing surprises me these days.



So, what would I do??? I'd call the coach over and tell him what I was just told and ask him to respond. 99% of coaches wouldn't hesitate to remove the player for the rest of the game. But there are exceptions. I'd have to think that this didn't come out of nowhere (meaning the biter probably was acting out in other ways during the game and had the ref's attention) so if the coach failed to discipline her, in my own little way, I'd discipline her with touch-foul after touch-foul and travel after travel. At some point she'd either foul out or have so many turnovers the coach would have to take her out.



UGH!

So you punish a kid based on hearsay from the one who claims to have been bitten? Why do you believe the alleged bitee? I know of at least one coach who was so **** crooked i would not put it past him to tell one of his kids to bite another and then try to get someone else kicked out of the game for it. Same coach stood in my gym and tried to recruit my star player in Metro to drive 35 minutes one way to practice and play for his program. Yes, 5th graders being recruited. Every coach in the league had issues with this fool and his lack of ethics.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
So you punish a kid based on hearsay from the one who claims to have been bitten? Why do you believe the alleged bitee? I know of at least one coach who was so **** crooked i would not put it past him to tell one of his kids to bite another and then try to get someone else kicked out of the game for it. Same coach stood in my gym and tried to recruit my star player in Metro to drive 35 minutes one way to practice and play for his program. Yes, 5th graders being recruited. Every coach in the league had issues with this fool and his lack of ethics.
I suspect that coach falls in the 1% that Rollo was referring to in his post.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
So you punish a kid based on hearsay from the one who claims to have been bitten? Why do you believe the alleged bitee? I know of at least one coach who was so **** crooked i would not put it past him to tell one of his kids to bite another and then try to get someone else kicked out of the game for it. Same coach stood in my gym and tried to recruit my star player in Metro to drive 35 minutes one way to practice and play for his program. Yes, 5th graders being recruited. Every coach in the league had issues with this fool and his lack of ethics.
Sir Vice King, I was referring to a situation where the refs already had the kid on their radar for dirty play, not some innocent kid with no reason to assume anything.

I had a coach try to get me to kick out a player for cussing during a game...it never happened and I know it because I was on top of the play he was complaining about...not that cussing is an ejectable offense, but I know that coaches will go as far as they can to get kids penalized for stuff they didn't do, which is why you need to have some sort of background before over-officiating.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
I’d expect the kid will be offered by Xavier!
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Or by wherever Huggins is coaching.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Nothing surprises me these days.

Here's the deal: You can't call something you don't see. Despite evidence like bite marks (or scratches, etc...) it's hard to say "#22 says that #12 bit her" and then eject #12 for what I would consider a flagrant technical.

So, by the Rules, your hands are tied behind your back. But because it's Metro and not OHSAA, you have the ability to stretch the rules under the guise of 'safety first'.

So, what would I do??? I'd call the coach over and tell him what I was just told and ask him to respond. 99% of coaches wouldn't hesitate to remove the player for the rest of the game. But there are exceptions. I'd have to think that this didn't come out of nowhere (meaning the biter probably was acting out in other ways during the game and had the ref's attention) so if the coach failed to discipline her, in my own little way, I'd discipline her with touch-foul after touch-foul and travel after travel. At some point she'd either foul out or have so many turnovers the coach would have to take her out.

Admittedly, what you describe is a TOUGH situation. The last thing I want to see is retaliation, which in today's game is realistic! I've heard more than one parent yell at their kid to 'throw an elbow' or 'take them down' which is nothing short of disturbing. But it's a fact. As I've told the queen (and Priders over and over) 90% of parents will ruin everything their kid does if given the chance.

This weekend was another eye-opener for me...had my 1st ejection (6th grade girls) and actually had a 2nd grade coach call a timeout less than 1 minute into a game to make his 9 year olds run half-court sprints!


UGH!
My brother in law as the AD at a HS in Ohio. He told me he witnessed this happening earlier this year.

The ref, who by the way is a minor league umpire in the summers (so presumably has better than CYO-level experience dealing with this), called a foul on a kid. The kid was wildly throwing elbows and it was a clear call. The dad comes out of the stands and threatens to take the ref out. Ref T's up the dad and kicks him out. Play resumes. About 2 trips later the same kid--another no doubter of a foul. Ref calls it, and the MOTHER comes out of the stands and says SHE is going to take the ref out. Ref T's up and ejects the mother. The stands erupt. So the ref clears the gym; he ejected every last person. Order is restored. Play resumes. Ref calls a foul and the COACH loses his mind. Ref T's up the coach, ejects him, and forfeits the game. Everyone go home.

It was a middle school girls basketball game.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
I’d expect the kid will be offered by Xavier!
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Or Louisville.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
My brother in law is the AD at a HS in Ohio. He told me he witnessed this happening earlier this year.
Was your B-I-L the home team's AD? If yes, WTF was he doing as the game was imploding?? If not, the other AD (or his rep, whose presence is an OHSAA requirement) should be castrated and the OHSAA should be notified. FWIW, whenever someone is tossed, the OHSAA must be notified of who, the circumstances, etc...but an additional complaint should be filed against the AD for not doing their job as facility manager. The ref ($35/game) shouldn't be the bad guy...that's the (+$100K/year) ADs job.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Was your B-I-L the home team's AD? If yes, WTF was he doing as the game was imploding?? If not, the other AD (or his rep, whose presence is an OHSAA requirement) should be castrated and the OHSAA should be notified. FWIW, whenever someone is tossed, the OHSAA must be notified of who, the circumstances, etc...but an additional complaint should be filed against the AD for not doing their job as facility manager. The ref ($35/game) shouldn't be the bad guy...that's the (+$100K/year) ADs job.
Frankly, I’d have the ref who was threatened file a criminal complaint against the idiot parents. These fools need to taught a lesson.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Frankly, I’d have the ref who was threatened file a criminal complaint against the idiot parents. These fools need to taught a lesson.
I wonder how many UDPriders read these stories and think to themselves 'that guy is an idiot!' and should be blah, blah, blah'ed...

...and then go to a youth/HS/UD game and scream about every call that goes against their team.

Are you one of them?? Are you part of the problem??

That's the golden question!

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Old 02-11-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I wonder how many UDPriders read these stories and think to themselves 'that guy is an idiot!' and should be blah, blah, blah'ed...

...and then go to a youth/HS/UD game and scream about every call that goes against their team.

Are you one of them?? Are you part of the problem??

That's the golden question!

I got a real real dirty look from the ref just for clearing my throat
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I wonder how many UDPriders read these stories and think to themselves 'that guy is an idiot!' and should be blah, blah, blah'ed...

...and then go to a youth/HS/UD game and scream about every call that goes against their team.

Are you one of them?? Are you part of the problem??

That's the golden question!

I'm a bigger fan of the Matheny Manifesto - say pretty much nothing at your kid's games. Let your kids play and kid's coaches coach. Refs have a job to do, let them do it. Simply keep your mouth shut and enjoy watching your child play, presumably a game they have a passion for.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:19 PM
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These days the line is blurred between fouls vs felonies all up and down the NBA, NCAA, CYO maturity spectrum. Seems to me if the bite-or was witnessed by a third party, she has got to go. If she admits to the dirty deed, she has got to go. Absent any corroboration there is not much you can do but call them all together and lay down the law. You will likely know before the game is over who did it then it's too late to do anything.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Was your B-I-L the home team's AD? If yes, WTF was he doing as the game was imploding?? If not, the other AD (or his rep, whose presence is an OHSAA requirement) should be castrated and the OHSAA should be notified. FWIW, whenever someone is tossed, the OHSAA must be notified of who, the circumstances, etc...but an additional complaint should be filed against the AD for not doing their job as facility manager. The ref ($35/game) shouldn't be the bad guy...that's the (+$100K/year) ADs job.

He was simply in attendance.



The dads from my daughter's soccer team have a rule: unless it's a safety issue, be annoyed quietly. If it's a safety issue, we yell at the ref to start throwing around yellow cards on both sides before someone gets hurt.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:43 PM
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:02 AM
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:36 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I wonder how many UDPriders read these stories and think to themselves 'that guy is an idiot!' and should be blah, blah, blah'ed...

...and then go to a youth/HS/UD game and scream about every call that goes against their team.

Are you one of them?? Are you part of the problem??

That's the golden question!

Never yelled at refs when coaching unless dirty tactics were being employed.

I did get ejected from a 6th grade soccer game. The other team had one player who was really dirty and getting away with it. We had a high school student who was helping with the team. He got so ****ed that he charged the field and got in the refs face and it was a very bad situation. I went on the field to prevent the ref from getting beat down. I also was kicked out and I told the ref that I was saving his ass.

Right or wrong I did heckle the ref and he did go hide in the officials locker room. Head of officials came out and we had a good conversation and I explained that the ref needed to deesculate the situation not inflame it.

The high school kid was punished by the league and was suspended for the rest of the year.

I cheer at granddaughters game and really don’t get upset. This past Saturday the granddaughter while fighting for a loose ball got kneed in the face. The ref showed a lot of concern for her and looked to the bench for a replacement. Coach/Mom told him she was ok and told daughter to shake it off.
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