UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > UDPRIDE SPORTS FORUMS > Mens Basketball

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
View Poll Results: Did Landers commit an Over-and-Back violaiton?
H*ll yeah! He went from frontcourt to backcourt before establishing backcourt possession 3 14.29%
H*ll no brother! Landers and UD never had possession in the frontcourt...no violation! 18 85.71%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:13 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RolloCon
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 16,238
Thanked 15,876 Times in 6,981 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
You Make the Call: Over-and-Back

In a continuation of last week's YMtC, UD and tOSU are headed to overtime in their Sweet 16 game. Tied 82-82, UD's 6'8" Xeryius Williams lines up for the jump ball against tOSU's 6'9" Micah Potter. Expecting Xeryius to easily win this jumpball, UD coach Anthony Grant positions John Crosby, Trey Landers and Darrell Davis on the UD side of midcourt and just-in-case, puts Sam Miller deep on the defensive side.

Lead official Joey DeMayo's toss to start the Overtime is poor...and darn near straight over Potter's head so Xeryius has to reach far over the centercourt line to tip the ball...as expected he clearly outjumps Potter, controls the tip, directed toward Landers, but on the OSU side of the court.

Because Landers was positioned a good 3 steps into the Dayton frontcourt, he has to hustle toward the ball in order to gain possession he has to jump just in front of the midcourt line and while in midair he grabs the ball just before OSU's Kam Williams can get it, turns his body and lands in the backcourt on both feet and is facing the UD basket.

As he passes the ball to Crosby on the left wing, official Edwin Young is heard blowing his whistle quickly and repetitively while signaling that Landers violated the over-and-back rule....tOSU ball! Unsure whether it's appropriate to 'boooooooooooooooooo' the once great UD point guard, the Flyer Faithful stand silently, raise their arms, shrug their shoulders and - dumbfounded - sit back down, confused on how to behave. Meanwhile, Anthony Grant lays into Young who ignores the tirade and simply passes the ball to young ref Chad Barlow who hesitates before allowing tOSU to inbound the ball...just long enough to make DeMayo think...and call for a official's huddle to discuss frontcourt and backcourt positioning, where Landers was when he caught the ball and the 1-10 Hot-ness scale for the OSU cheerleaders.

You're part of the crew...make the call and tell me why!

__________________
I shaved my balls for this?

Last edited by rollo; 07-03-2017 at 09:29 AM..
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:42 AM
udflyerhoops2's Avatar
udflyerhoops2 udflyerhoops2 is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 528
Thanks: 289
Thanked 382 Times in 154 Posts
udflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond reputeudflyerhoops2 has a reputation beyond repute
I just don't believe that there is any violation since the possession is not established until the ball is controlled by a player. Unless the ball is tipped out of bounds.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-2017, 10:07 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RolloCon
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 16,238
Thanked 15,876 Times in 6,981 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
I just don't believe that there is any violation since the possession is not established until the ball is controlled by a player. Unless the ball is tipped out of bounds.
FWIW, 'possession' is one way of looking at O&B...but so is 'control'.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-2017, 10:30 AM
sheg's Avatar
sheg sheg is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 524
Thanked 1,858 Times in 719 Posts
sheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond repute
You have to establish your body and the ball in the frontcourt before there can be a backcourt violation. Never happened, so it never happened. UD ball, the Blanket is chastened, and the cheerleader is deemed a solid 7.5 (and a UD 10, and a Xavier 11).
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to sheg For This Totally Excellent Post:
Gazoo (07-03-2017)
  #5  
Old 07-03-2017, 03:43 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RolloCon
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 16,238
Thanked 15,876 Times in 6,981 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by sheg View Post
You have to establish your body and the ball in the frontcourt before there can be a backcourt violation. Never happened, so it never happened. UD ball, the Blanket is chastened, and the cheerleader is deemed a solid 7.5 (and a UD 10, and a Xavier 11).
Huh?

If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2017, 03:51 PM
UDGutter2's Avatar
UDGutter2 UDGutter2 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coldwater
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 2,322
Thanked 1,206 Times in 542 Posts
UDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond repute
I believe while this is normally a violation, a jump ball situation is an exception.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-2017, 04:01 PM
IndianaFlyer IndianaFlyer is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 985
Thanks: 779
Thanked 700 Times in 275 Posts
IndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Possession in the front-court is established by having both feet and the ball in the front court, sounds like he did, so back-court violation.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-2017, 04:28 PM
Gazoo's Avatar
Gazoo Gazoo is offline
General
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
Gazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Huh?

If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
Yes, because I was established in the frontcourt.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-03-2017, 04:54 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RolloCon
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 16,238
Thanked 15,876 Times in 6,981 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Yes, because I was established in the frontcourt.
What about the ball? Does instantaneous contact with you establish anything? It's a complicated rule and one that is blown more often than most of you would understand.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-03-2017, 05:01 PM
Gazoo's Avatar
Gazoo Gazoo is offline
General
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
Gazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
What about the ball? Does instantaneous contact with you establish anything? It's a complicated rule and one that is blown more often than most of you would understand.
What if the midcourt line is on top of the international date line?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-03-2017, 05:01 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,895
Thanks: 1,341
Thanked 1,302 Times in 674 Posts
TXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
In this case, I don't believe that contact with the ball initiates possession, unlike say a ball hitting a player just before going out of bounds. Since no team has possession at the jump ball, possession would seem to need to be established once a player gains control of the ball. Having said that though, I now question my vote of UD ball. If time was running out, would Landers have been able to call a TO while in the air? If so, then possession would seemingly be established at the point of contact/control, even in the air. In that case, it may end up being tOSU ball. In either case, the cheerleaders win.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to TXFlyerFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (07-04-2017)
  #12  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:05 PM
sheg's Avatar
sheg sheg is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 524
Thanked 1,858 Times in 719 Posts
sheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond reputesheg has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Huh?

If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
I used an improper term when I said control, which has a specific meaning. I should have said contact. When your pass to Gazoo, who was established in the frontcourt, bounced off his dome, that contact established the ball in the frontcourt. You then committed a backcourt violation by touching the ball in the backcourt before a defender could intervene.

On a throw in, an offensive player that leaves his feet can not be guilty of a backcourt violation, regardless of where he takes off and/or lands and/or touches the ball. I'm interpreting the rule the same way for a jump ball. No violation, UD ball.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:10 PM
cj cj is offline
General of the Air Force
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,000
Thanks: 3,691
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,713 Posts
cj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond repute
The "3 points" of possesion were never established in the front court so no over and back.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-06-2017, 10:23 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RolloCon
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 16,238
Thanked 15,876 Times in 6,981 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Rule 9.9.3

Here's the Royally short and sweet explanation: There are 2 situations in basketball where the over-and-back violation is exempt...throw-ins and jumpballs. Of course, once the throw-in and jump ball ends, O&B can be called, but in this case Landers had not landed so the jumpball wasn't over.

So Edwin screwed up...should have been no whistle.

Therefore, (b) is the correct guess. I blame the OSU cheerleaders.

__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:14 AM
Gazoo's Avatar
Gazoo Gazoo is offline
General
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
Gazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond reputeGazoo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Here's the Royally short and sweet explanation: There are 2 situations in basketball where the over-and-back violation is exempt...throw-ins and jumpballs. Of course, once the throw-in and jump ball ends, O&B can be called, but in this case Landers had not landed so the jumpball wasn't over.

So Edwin screwed up...should have been no whistle.

Therefore, (b) is the correct guess. I blame the OSU cheerleaders.

What about the other scenarios / fact / fake news patterns on the thread, such as when I got hit in the back of the head with the ball?
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Gazoo For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (07-06-2017)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.