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  #1  
Old 12-23-2017, 05:52 PM
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Starting A10 Play

Mercifully, the OOC is over. Inconsistency is the only trait easy to identify so far.

I am surprised at some of the quality wins by OOC opponents. Georgia State and Auburn with nice wins today.

I think everything changes starting at Duquesne.

I hope I am wrong, but I don’t see this team contending for the title, primarily because the freshmen have not developed enough. Kostas and Matej are way behind where I hoped. As league play starts, most teams change minutes and rotations. Upper classmen play much more and freshmen, especially weak reshman play less. Kostas and Matej have played like weak freshman so far. Maybe they will develop, but normally, that growth period is during OOC. Crutcher will play less but Jordan Davis will play more, primarily due to his 3 point shot.

That leaves a thin inexperienced bench and inconsistent upper class men. Josh is a stud, but he needs more inside help and better guard play. I expect Xeyruis to improve. Trey is proving to be the surprise of the team. He is adding physical playing draws fouls. That is a real plus.

This team will have trouble on road games and will struggle against stronger taller teams. Every A10 team will have a star guard that will light them up. They can withstand some of that, just not physical strong front lines.

Hope I am wrong. I just don’t have high expectations for A10 this year. It will be a roller coaster with UD in the middle of the pack.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2017, 08:02 PM
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I think Anthony has made a statement with regard to Kostas and Matej. Play smarter or don't play starting today. They just need seasoning. His rotation off the bench will start shrinking. We are going to win a few maybe we shouldn't have, and lose a few where we wish we had a mulligan. Very much like ooc.

But we have to temper that with the fact that the A10 is weaker than normal. So that might gives us an extra game or two in the W/L column. But in the process our RPI is going to rise faster than bitcoin. Tough road ahead.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:51 PM
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3 or 4 hot days in D.C changes everything
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2017, 09:09 PM
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That's far off in the distance in terms of a young team taking its first steps as a unit, so I'll give you that, BR2P3. But it would be an absolute turn-around.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:26 PM
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I think Kostas is playing pretty well. He is the best rim protector we have, especially against guards penetrating the lane. If he limits his fouls, he will get plenty of playing time, and I think we will be better off for it.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2017, 09:44 PM
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It's my opinion that you're going to see every guard in the conference go right at him, because he doesn't have experience. The longer he's in the game the less chance the competition has of gaining advantage in the lane. They'll game-plan to stop him and Cunningham.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:08 PM
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We've been playing smaller trams last 3 games. Kostas will play more.

I predict anywhere from, in order, 7-9 to 9-7
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:26 PM
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Not only is his penchant to foul on tape but so is how he handled himself in the Penn game. And I got to believe that the best Philly bigs didn't go to Penn. But there will be a few scattered throughout the A10. I don't have a good feeling about his minutes going up. Not unless he gets 10 fouls.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
I predict anywhere from, in order, 7-9 to 9-7
I will bet you any amount of money it won't be 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2017, 12:20 AM
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The over/under is 8 wins.
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  #11  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71 View Post
The over/under is 8 wins.
Sounds high. Safely high, if I were betting. But anything can happen. I hope they gel like the poster in the other thread said and win 9. That would put us in much better shape to hit the ground running next season.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I will bet you any amount of money it won't be 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7.
Maybe they will cancel two games.
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  #13  
Old 12-24-2017, 08:42 AM
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I am very serious when I say this.........

AG will have the team ready for a successful league run as the team will finally finish what they have started in the first half the last two games. Freshmen are growing up, Landers is maturing into the all around player a few of us expected him to be, Williams back continues to improve, and our point guards settle down a bit. Very confident, thanks in part to the A-10 being a bit down this year, we are looking at 14-4 in conference this season. 8-1 @ home in and 6-3 on the road. Three wins in the A-10 tourney, very possible!

Now no one be a the Grinch who stole Christmas and tell me I am crazy or anything. It is before 9 am, so no eggnog yet. Merry Christmas Flyer fans.
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  #14  
Old 12-24-2017, 09:02 AM
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Landers is just going to get better and better. His muscle combined with 6'3" will serve us well. Recall last year's forward was 6'.

Kostas must mature fast for us to be better in the A10. Got to stay in the game.

Matej is a project, but IMO it's short term because he is adapting to the USA game and will be an asset in the long run. When he hit the floor yesterday, it surprised me how big he actually is.

Everybody else should get a boost with a fresh start in League play. I look for a 6-3 record through January, 2-2 on the road.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:27 AM
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I'll be shocked if this team wins 7 games in the conference. They are so very very weak at guard play with the basketball and protecting it. KK will improve but he will not stay out of foul trouble enough games. It will be a lot like big Steve in his first year. Cunningham needs help and lots of it. I do think Landers is a real key to the team but he is going to have to hit some mid-range jumpers and continue to be strong to the hoop and hit his free throws.

We have seen nothing as far as any consistency and not turning the ball over. Yes I realize a couple of games ago we had around 7 or 8 turnovers but that just is not going to be the norm. I have never ever seen a college team with the turnovers this team has as far as getting three or four foot passes thrown away, being careless with the ball 30 feet away from the basket ,soft passes.

We are going to continually get zoned by teams and I have yet to see consistency with anybody getting the ball into the lane deep or even seen anybody in this team that can flash in the lane. John Crosby has the ability to get into the lane and make some things happen but I think he's going to have to be able to hit some jump shots to keep defenders honest.

Last edited by steve; 12-24-2017 at 09:30 AM..
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:07 AM
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A-10 Stats Reveal

They can be somewhat misleading due to the differences in OOC strength of schedules. Here are some numbers that are important to me.
Free Throws Attempted: 147 (7th)
Turnovers: Averaging 14.1 (12th)
Rebounds: Averaging 32.3 (12th)
Shooting 46.3% (1st)
3 Point shooting: (7th)
Assists: Averaging 15.1 (5th)
Free Throws: 72.8% (5th)
Points Scored: 71.3 (5th)
Points Allowed: 70.5 (8th)

I expect the Flyers to go 9-9 in Conference play. But IF they can get two more possessions/game by reducing their turnovers to a maximum of 12/game and continue to take good shots at a 46% rate they could win a few more games. Go Flyers!
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:29 AM
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I saw some improvement in Kostas yesterday in that he didn't go after every block. One of his fouls on the replay was a total miss of the shooter that got a bad call. He has to improve his offense and floor awareness. At times he is not sure where to pass, if to pass, or if to drive, and his posting up is non-existent. I think we will see a different player in two months, but it will take a good while.

I thought the whole offense flowed better yesterday. There was much better and crisper passing in the half court offense. Glad to see a team test us on the full court press. A great experience for later on.

I agree Matej is the letdown of the year. He really does not seem to have the basic athleticism of a high level D1 player, and does not shoot well or defend well. Next to Jordan Davis, I thought coming in he would have the biggest impact.

Jordan is everything I thought he would be. You love to see him shoot, because you think they all will go in. His defense is learning and getting better, and he has good floor awareness. We need more POY of their state instead of in our minds.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:09 AM
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Strength of schedule will pay dividends, 15-3, ;-)
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:31 AM
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Don't Give Up on Matej

as he is a very bright offensive player. He always does the right thing whether it is pick and roll, passing to the open shooter, hitting the back cutter or shooting a trey. He can rebound and he will help this team in conference play. He is a little lost right now but he is very capable of being a high scorer for a game when necessary. Stay tune on Svoboda. For a 6'7"
player he also has a bit of a handle which is a bonus. The more Xeryous emerges it may cut into his playing time further.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:47 AM
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I think Svoboda turns out to be a very good player. He's been off in just about every facet of his game but not by a lot. I think he has too much going for him in terms of being that multi-faceted player to fail.
He seems to understand the flow of the game and has not been a disruptor in that regard. He can facilitate and he moves well without the ball. He's always in good position and he's a good ball-handler and moves well, for his size.
He's an international player that is finding his way in a foreign country. He'll be just fine. He seems to have a solid understanding of the game. He's got the frame. He just needs to put it together.
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Old 12-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Strength of schedule will pay dividends, 15-3, ;-)
I'll have what he's smoking!
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:31 PM
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Looking back at the body of work just completed, Dayton finished the non-conference season w/the highest non-con SOS in the A10 (#3 nationally), AND the most victories (6) over teams w/winning records -- more than GW, SJU, GMU, RICH, DUQ, FOR, and DAV combined.

In other words, we played the toughest opponents as a collective unit yet still achieved the most collective success of any A10 team. Certainly, there are no Top-20 wins. But there are no "filler" victories either. Every victory (6) was against an opponent that actually understood the game of basketball.

As bad as things seem, its not nearly as bad. The Flyers haven't had a single "whew, we can take the night off against this opponent" game this year. The schedule has put some chest hair on us and forced us to be locked in every day to be successful. Some nights we were, some not. But looking ahead to the A10, I think the mental toughness of knowing every game we played in the non-con mattered should help us in the last half of the season.
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Looking back at the body of work just completed, Dayton finished the non-conference season w/the highest non-con SOS in the A10 (#3 nationally), AND the most victories (6) over teams w/winning records -- more than GW, SJU, GMU, RICH, DUQ, FOR, and DAV combined.
You are not allowed to use data to make points here...
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:19 PM
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Wow. I needed that. Feel better already. No, seriously.

Happy Holidays !
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Wow. I needed that. Feel better already. No, seriously.

Happy Holidays !
I feel similarly after seeing that compilation of stats that Chris presented. Honestly though, those stats defy why my eyes have seen. But a good effect is a good effect. Placebo or not.

Sometimes stats don't tell the real truth. That's the truth. And I don't mean to nit-pick. I really don't. The immediate future doesn't smell of success to me. I will be more than mildly surprised if we win eight games. Those stats say we should win more than we lose in-conference.

10-8 seems impossible to me. If the team wins 8, meaning going 8-10, I'll apologize to each and every one who presented these stats, or felt we would be successful. The stats have defied what my eyes have seen.

Most everyone wants to be right with their predictions in the end, but I really want to be wrong. If we don't have success I won't be happy, nor will I rub it in.

But if we have success, meaning eight games or more won, I'll deserve all the crow you guys can dish out. See you guys on the flip.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Priders. Be safe.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2017, 08:18 PM
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My goal for each UD A10 season is 14-4.

Run the table at home (9-0)... win more than you lose on the road (5-4).

Beat LaSalle, Duquesne, George Mason, Richmond on the road... then need to win one of these games to get to 5 road wins (St. Joes, St. Louis, or UMass).

The road portion actually seems possible this year.

Winning all our home games though seems impossible this year (with RI, St B, and VCU all coming to the arena).
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Strength of schedule will pay dividends, 15-3, ;-)
I love the optimism and I hope UDGutter is right. I don't see it but I want everyone to know UDGutter is actually a sane, rational human being.

Merry Christmas
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Yorkshire Flyer View Post
I love the optimism and I hope UDGutter is right. I don't see it but I want everyone to know UDGutter is actually a sane, rational human being.

Merry Christmas
Lol, thanks for the vote of confidence.

I'm a realist, but try to be positive and hopeful instead of negative and despairing. I do believe they will be over .500 in league play.
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:32 PM
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10-8 or 11-7. Lose in the A10 semi finals. 18 or 19 wins with a shot for an NIT bid.
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2017, 09:43 PM
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Agree, we are competitive in the A10 T and come close to getting the automatic bid. Our name gets us into the NIT.
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  #31  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:41 AM
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My reference point is a few years ago, but.....

There was a time in far off land, where your name got you into the NIT. But now that the NCAA owns the NIT, you have to have a good record, or be one of those teams who won their league, but failed to get the auto bid in the League Tournament, or at least went to the Finals of your tournament. That usually accounts for almost a dozen entries.

There are 32 teams that get in, and that is 8 fewer than there used to be. I don't believe since the NIT rules changed, that any team with a losing record has gotten an invitation to the NIT. Unless it changed, the First Four Out of the NCAA initial draw get the top 4 seeds in the NIT.

So the squeeze is on for NIT bids and your name gets you nothing on it's own.

Then you are destined for the CBI (College Basketball Invitational) where it's possible to get in with a losing record. Or the CIT (CollegeInsiderTourn) which is made up of mid-majors who have a winning record, but clearly are not going to the NIT. They can almost fill out their draw by mid March.

My recollection is from a few years ago, but I don't think things have changed much. There are various rule experiments that have been employed by the NIT/CBI/CIT, such as shot clock and a wider restricted circle in the lane.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:56 AM
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Most of our marginal players have shown improvement but still need to work on their consistency. I'm talking about XW, Crosby, DDavis, Kostas, Jordan and Crutcher...basically everyone but Cunningham. I've given up on Svaboda until next season...

And without consistency, winning is difficult. I'll take .500 in the conference which will be difficult as we will lose a couple games at home, meaning we have to steal some road victories.
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  #33  
Old 12-26-2017, 10:16 AM
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I sat next to this fat lady yesterday. She was so busy enjoying all the food garnering the table she wasn't even concerned about singing. Was wearing my Santa hat and dayton sweat shirt. She looked over and smiled. Said there's too much food left on the table to even think about warming up. I said touchette, merry Christmas and happy new season.

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Old 12-26-2017, 10:44 AM
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I don't see any reason Flyers can't notch at least 10 wins in conference play. I don't think people appreciate how terrible the A10 is this year. Yes, Dayton struggles to contain dynamic guards, but thankfully there aren't as many of those in A10 as there has been in recent years.

I'm surprised this team still doesn't seem to have an identity. Starting to see signs with Landers imbuing some toughness and attacking mentality. Hopefully they start to take more pride in being defensive team, b/c the offense is always going to be streaky. Guards too often forget about Josh and he he should not be going long stretches with no touches.

Also, don't understand why they continue to play at such a glacially slow pace. It's not like they are especially dangerous in the half-court. Crosby and D Davis are especially guilty of bringing offense to screeching halt with their ball-stopping.
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  #35  
Old 12-26-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
Also, don't understand why they continue to play at such a glacially slow pace. It's not like they are especially dangerous in the half-court. Crosby and D Davis are especially guilty of bringing offense to screeching halt with their ball-stopping.
Only thing I can think of is we needed to get our turnovers under control. We are averaging 14 a game and as we all know we have had some awful games turning the ball over. I don't think UD wants to play slow, so if we can consistantly get this stat in the 10-12 range I think we will see a quicker offense. Like you, I'm voting for sooner rather than later if at all possible. It's painful to watch at times, but I'm hopeful some of these younger, less experienced guys start to get it and AG can settle his rotation minutes. X getting healthy and settling into his role and playing well will also help. That would give us DD, JC, Trey and X as the foundation for the conference season. I would be pretty comfortable with that, but X has to find his game and buy into his role.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
There was a time in far off land, where your name got you into the NIT. But now that the NCAA owns the NIT, you have to have a good record, or be one of those teams who won their league, but failed to get the auto bid in the League Tournament, or at least went to the Finals of your tournament. That usually accounts for almost a dozen entries.

There are 32 teams that get in, and that is 8 fewer than there used to be. I don't believe since the NIT rules changed, that any team with a losing record has gotten an invitation to the NIT. Unless it changed, the First Four Out of the NCAA initial draw get the top 4 seeds in the NIT.

So the squeeze is on for NIT bids and your name gets you nothing on it's own.

Then you are destined for the CBI (College Basketball Invitational) where it's possible to get in with a losing record. Or the CIT (CollegeInsiderTourn) which is made up of mid-majors who have a winning record, but clearly are not going to the NIT. They can almost fill out their draw by mid March.
Don’t necessarily disagree but I forgot on this board specificity is important. So to clarify I’d never expect us to get an NIT bid with a losing record. But I think that in the event that we’re a bubble team we may get the nod due to our recent NCAAT string, and the national reputation we have for fan base travel etc. We may not have earned the right to be nationally relevant each year (yet) but we have a great national reputation for our strong fan base and facilities.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:17 AM
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Saturday's game will tell us a lot. A-10 opener, on the road, Dukes have won 7 in a row. Not saying they were quality wins, didn't look to see who they played. But winning 7 in a row does tend to install some confidence.

Truth is though, we'll only go as far as our defense and rebounding take us. Given how poor the defense has been at times, to have a plus w/l record in conference is going to have to mean significantly improved defense. And while the A-10 is down, so is UD, so that's not something in the plus column for us. They are simply going to have to will themselves to improve in certain areas.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:22 AM
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Frankly i think X, Landers and Jordan D play pretty well going forward.

That leaves turnover issue, and let's hope Crosby stops jumping into nowhere and handling better.

Kostas? He'll get a block or two a game, and help against smaller teams. If he and Matej mature and adjust to the game - we go 11-7.

IF not, and turnovers hound us...... 8-8
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:12 PM
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The biggest issue with this team is defense. The defense is weak due to inexperience and desire.

Turnover, fouls, offense are all issues, but the team will rise and fall this year based on its ability to step up its D.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:37 PM
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The constant cheap fouling has got to stop. This is one area of instruction and emphasis that I put squarely on the staff. If you foul the same stupid way you did when the season started there has to be consequences. I would have them practice defense with their arms pinned to their side with bungee cords.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:31 PM
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I am looking forward to Sat. A win makes the Bonnie game on Wed at home a Big Game in terms of the conference and finishing in the Top 4. It does really come down to D and rebounding the ball. I know there is questioning of AGs approach but I am going to give it time. Its funny they are now talking about Bobby Hurley as coach of the year and a strong candidate to replace K at Duke in time. Well take a quick look at his first TWO years at Arizona State. Both sub 500 seasons. Archie with the losses at Home to two teams by a wide margin. Hell Lon Kruger lost 20 games last year and now they are Top 5. AG needs players, this Cohill kid will make a difference and as you can see they are trying real hard to get a Pt Guard which tells us they are not satisfied with this years guys and want to go to the next level. This group just needs to play go thru the ups and downs and then we need Great summer of getting better. I still have high hopes for this year!!
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:25 PM
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I see us continuing to improve and going 11-7. Getting X back to 100% will help a great deal.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:32 PM
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Young Team + Road Game = Mega apprehension for me.

Want to believe....not very confident in this team right now.

Turnovers < 10 = win, > 10 = loss.
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
I am looking forward to Sat. A win makes the Bonnie game on Wed at home a Big Game in terms of the conference and finishing in the Top 4. It does really come down to D and rebounding the ball. I know there is questioning of AGs approach but I am going to give it time. Its funny they are now talking about Bobby Hurley as coach of the year and a strong candidate to replace K at Duke in time. Well take a quick look at his first TWO years at Arizona State. Both sub 500 seasons. Archie with the losses at Home to two teams by a wide margin. Hell Lon Kruger lost 20 games last year and now they are Top 5. AG needs players, this Cohill kid will make a difference and as you can see they are trying real hard to get a Pt Guard which tells us they are not satisfied with this years guys and want to go to the next level. This group just needs to play go thru the ups and downs and then we need Great summer of getting better. I still have high hopes for this year!!
Lon Kruger and Archie have earned the benefit of the doubt. AG not so much IMO.

Kruger has 4 NCAAT appearances at OU, including a Final 4.

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  #45  
Old 12-27-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Lon Kruger and Archie have earned the benefit of the doubt. AG not so much IMO.

Kruger has 4 NCAAT appearances at OU, including a Final 4.
Sorry all that does is strengthen the argument for the excuse club ( aka give AG time folks ) and has earned AG some time, maybe more time.

If these great coaches can struggle when taking over a program then maybe, just maybe these 'excuses' most of us are stating are actually factual realities.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:53 AM
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To be fair to AG he hasn't gotten his guys in here yet. This freshman class isn't his & the guys he did bring he brought in late so don't really count. We need to give till year 5 or 6 before we can make any judgements
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
To be fair to AG he hasn't gotten his guys in here yet. This freshman class isn't his & the guys he did bring he brought in late so don't really count. We need to give till year 5 or 6 before we can make any judgements
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6 years? How about 4 or 5? Archie needed 3 years.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
To be fair to AG he hasn't gotten his guys in here yet. This freshman class isn't his & the guys he did bring he brought in late so don't really count. We need to give till year 5 or 6 before we can make any judgements
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6 years, I don't think so. If it takes 6 years, UD will never be relevant in basketball again. Look at how difficult it is for mid-majors already to get a quality schedule put together. P5 + NBE conferences already at or headed towards 20 game schedules leaving very few chances for top 25/top 50, even top 100 wins. Making the NCAA will pretty much be a thing of the past, recruiting will become even more difficult. We're already facing some of those headwinds now and still would be even if AM hadn't left. Add 3-4 plus very lean years and it'll just about be over. The landscape has changed too much since the JOB years that you can afford to take a long time to get back to where you were. And without a top conference affiliation, there just wouldn't be much of a reason for players to choose UD at that point.

But can you really afford to wait 6 years to judge him, and if you do and judge him as not getting it done, and then bring in another coach, then by the time he has a chance to be successful, 8-10 years may have gone by since UDs last successful basketball years? I just don't see that happening. I would guess by end of year three, four at latest, AG must be finishing top 3 in the conference, competing/winning A-10 tourney championship, and getting into NCAA. Because if they aren't, how much longer can you afford to wait to see if he does turn things around. Obviously, if you see year over year improvement, you take that into account, but I don't see 6 years. The basketball program is too important to UD to let it languish that long.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
To be fair to AG he hasn't gotten his guys in here yet. This freshman class isn't his & the guys he did bring he brought in late so don't really count. We need to give till year 5 or 6 before we can make any judgements
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5 or 6 years!?!?! LOL

While the freshman class isn't AG's he better find a way to get his players and to do it quickly. If that means getting rid of some current players at the end of the year to free up a scholarship or two then that's what he needs to do. The problem is that AG's reputation as the greatest human being ever will probably prevent him from doing that. At least Sam Miller freed up one extra scholarship with his escapade.
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Old 12-27-2017, 02:23 PM
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I hope Grant either knocks it out of the park or fails miserably. The in between stuff of one or two first round NCAA's in six years and one A10 will drive us nuts and off the ledge. We want to move up a step from Archie. Grant won't get five years of nothing, but he will get five years of stuff that will not please most of us.

In six years time Grant should have a minimum of two A10 championships, four NCAA bids, an Elite Eight and a final 32. This year will be a zero, so he has five years to do it.
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Old 12-27-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I hope Grant either knocks it out of the park or fails miserably. The in between stuff of one or two first round NCAA's in six years and one A10 will drive us nuts and off the ledge. We want to move up a step from Archie. Grant won't get five years of nothing, but he will get five years of stuff that will not please most of us.

In six years time Grant should have a minimum of two A10 championships, four NCAA bids, an Elite Eight and a final 32. This year will be a zero, so he has five years to do it.
An Elite 8 every 6 years? I think many here underestimate how hard it is to reach the E8. Now I am not saying we need to keep him around for for just making the tournament, but a S16 is much more realistic at our current level.

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Old 12-27-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
6 years? How about 4 or 5? Archie needed 3 years.

But Archie is one of the all time greats! You can't expect AG to do it as quickly as Archie.
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Old 12-27-2017, 04:17 PM
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6 years is way too long.

When Archie interviewed, he knew he had to reach higher expectations by year 3. Years 1 and 2 were hall passes. He knew he was gone if he did not achieve.

Anthony is a smart guy. He knows the same expectation exists for him.
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Old 12-27-2017, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I would guess by end of year three, four at latest, AG must be finishing top 3 in the conference, competing/winning A-10 tourney championship, and getting into NCAA. Because if they aren't, how much longer can you afford to wait to see if he does turn things around. Obviously, if you see year over year improvement, you take that into account, but I don't see 6 years. The basketball program is too important to UD to let it languish that long.
This is the magic number...year 3 you better see results. You are a known quantity at that point and if your results are mediocre or suck at year 3...you can bet they will be the same in year 5 and 6.
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Old 12-27-2017, 04:54 PM
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Not that we're going to be in the know, but we still only have Cohill coming in next year with Mikesell returning and Toppin gaining eligibility, while losing DD to graduation. That's not much roster turnover. With most kids have already signed LOI for next year, I'm wondering what our options might be.

Assume Miller doesn't come back opens up one spot, but to be filled by who? Who are our options. It looks like we offers to Anfernee Simmons, Koran Moore, Philmon Gebrewhit, and I know we offered a kid from Florida the other day. Pretty sure folks said we have no chance at Simmons but I'm also guessing that PG is probably our most important need for next year if we really want to improve. The kid from FL was only a 2 or 3 star? Not sure of anyone that we did offer who's still available at this point or if they would look for a JUCO etc
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Old 12-27-2017, 05:08 PM
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There are always good players available in the spring. PG seems to be the biggest priority, both in what I see on the court, and what what CAG seems to have been recruiting the hardest over the last handful of months. I think he envisions Cohill as more of a 2-gaurd/wing. Could be a pretty dynamic setup on the wings with him and Jordan Davis, however they need someone to run the show. I've seen enough spurts in Crutcher to think he could develop, but he's no garuntee. The PG out of Miami is intriguing, has some decent options at the moment, but there is always the graduate transfer (seems unlikely) or regular transfer options to fill the last scholarship. Similar to Crutcher, or McKinely Wright, there will be coaching changes at the end of the season that will affect currently committed players at the moment. There will be plenty of decent talent in the spring, if both the player and CAG have mutual interest.

I assume Miller is out, I see no reasons based soley on his on-court play during his first 2 seasons to continue the relationship, throw in the off the court stuff and why would CAG continue?
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Old 12-27-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The in between stuff of one or two first round NCAA's in six years and one A10 will drive us nuts and off the ledge.
AKA Brian Gregory
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Most of our marginal players have shown improvement but still need to work on their consistency. I'm talking about XW, Crosby, DDavis, Kostas, Jordan and Crutcher...basically everyone but Cunningham. I've given up on Svaboda until next season...

And without consistency, winning is difficult. I'll take .500 in the conference which will be difficult as we will lose a couple games at home, meaning we have to steal some road victories.
maybe 1836
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:32 AM
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Any transfers in the first 3 seasons & I'd add some years onto the timeline
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Any transfers in the first 3 seasons & I'd add some years onto the timeline
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Even with transfers, 4 or 5 years seems very reasonable. Was Ralph Hill the only player to transfer out while Archie was here?
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:53 AM
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Gavs and Price also transferred out. And we lost Big Steve.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Was Ralph Hill the only player to transfer out while Archie was here?
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Gavs and Price also transferred out. And we lost Big Steve.
You're answering your own questions now?
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:20 AM
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Huge expectations next year. As mentioned above you lose one but gain 3, possibly 4 players and everyone currently on the roster minus DD is a year older.

Senior X, Cunningham. Stud Cohill. RS Frosh Toppin and RS JR Mikesell. PG should be less of a concern with SR Crosby and SO Crutch. Plus a potential FS/grad transfer PG and Cohill is allegedly a "combo guard."

I doubt I'll be doing it but if we don't make the tournament next year there is going to be some heavy grumbling among the base.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I assume Miller is out, I see no reasons based soley on his on-court play during his first 2 seasons to continue the relationship, throw in the off the court stuff and why would CAG continue?
Up until this year I was cool with Baby D transferring out, to free up a scholly. Now, I can see that I was wrong there. His potential is finally being realized. The point is I am not sure we ever really got to see who Sam Miller, the basketall player is. He has skills and size. Go back and look at his high school highlight reels. They're incredible. Given what we know now, I think it's reasonable to assume he didn't dedicate himself to improving his game, instead getting caught up in partying. If he has hit rock bottom, and is dedicated to realizing his potenting now, then perhaps AG is willing to take the chance? If Sam Miller could improve as much as Baby D did, that would certainly be a big addition. Now, is the risk worth a scholarship? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But if he is willing to pay his own way, that changes things as well because you'e adding a potentially useful bench piece while still getting to reallocate that scholarship.

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Old 12-28-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Gavs and Price also transferred out. And we lost Big Steve.
Rogers and Derenbecker transferred out also.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
But Archie is one of the all time greats! You can't expect AG to do it as quickly as Archie.
No coach can get it done as quickly as Archie, he is the greatest college basketball coach in the history of the game.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Up until this year I was cool with Baby D transferring out, to free up a scholly. Now, I can see that I was wrong there. His potential is finally being realized. The point is I am not sure we ever really got to see who Sam Miller, the basketall player is. He has skills and size. Go back and look at his high school highlight reels. They're incredible. Given what we know now, I think it's reasonable to assume he didn't dedicate himself to improving his game, instead getting caught up in partying. If he has hit rock bottom, and is dedicated to realizing his potenting now, then perhaps AG is willing to take the chance? If Sam Miller could improve as much as Baby D did, that would certainly be a big edition. Now, is the risk worth a scholarship? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But if he is willing to pay his own way, that changes things as well because you'e adding a potentially useful bench piece while still getting to reallocate that scholarship.
I agree. Unless we get a four star recruit forward or center, why bother. People act like we are just a point guard away from the tourney. Besides Cunningham, we have no game changers at positions 3-5, and Josh is gone in a year. Know who our second leading rebounder is? Clue, he is a senior guard.

The only thing we hear is "the potential of Kostas, when Williams gets healthy, Matej has potential once he adjusts, Landers is a tough kid, we have an unproven mid-level ineligible freshman, Mikesell moves well without the ball, a big guy who has played four minutes". Miller is right in there with these guys as wannabe's. Next year we have Cunningham, Jordan and Cohill.

Get a four star bigger guy, or stay home!
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
...we have an unproven mid-level ineligible freshman...
Who's that? Toppin?
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Any transfers in the first 3 seasons & I'd add some years onto the timeline
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I think you're trolling at this point, but transfers just mean AG can get his guys in quicker. Should speed up the timeline.

Which is why the 5-6 year timeline is ridiculous to me. If some of Archie's guys aren't going work in his system, AG needs to cut bait and get his guys in here.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
I think you're trolling at this point, but transfers just mean AG can get his guys in quicker. Should speed up the timeline.

Which is why the 5-6 year timeline is ridiculous to me. If some of Archie's guys aren't going work in his system, AG needs to cut bait and get his guys in here.
Not advocating this at all, but outside Miller, the next "potential" guys would likely be Svoboda and Pierce. And that's just based on what has transpired so far in games. Who knows what the coaches see in practice and how they will improve. Again, not advocating parting with them, just if I had to choose guys, they would probably be my top two at this point. But I guess we'll know if any of that is going to happen if we see Dayton signing any additional players beyond Cohill. Until then, it's all mere speculation.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
This is the magic number...year 3 you better see results. You are a known quantity at that point and if your results are mediocre or suck at year 3...you can bet they will be the same in year 5 and 6.
100% correct.

The measuring stick is and has always been 3 years. You can tell by year 2 and 3 how the team improves. By year 3 , the Coach has had his guys here 2 full years. He has altered his defensiive and offensive schemes to how he wants to play.

Team will be the same at year 5 and 6, if just mediocre at 3. 100%.

ONLY Exclusion would be 2 or 3 major injuries in the same year. That stuff fudges the system up all... the .... time
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:38 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
No coach can get it done as quickly as Archie, he is the greatest college basketball coach in the history of the game.

Jim Bo....you should be exemplified by Merriam Webster as the definitive example of the word Troll.

Thanks so much for providing a great example should we ever need it...but shame on you.

The more I think about it...I'm trolling too...I guess shame on me too?
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
Jim Bo....you should be exemplified by Merriam Webster as the definitive example of the word Troll.

Thanks so much for providing a great example should we ever need it...but shame on you.

The more I think about it...I'm trolling too...I guess shame on me too?
Yeah, I guess it could have been construed as such, but it wasn't my intention. I was just being facetious. I just get tired of how some here talk about Miller as if he's God-like.

Things for Miller didn't start clicking until late into his third season, and many here, including myself, were vocal about our displeasure with the direction he was taking the program. Well, we were dead wrong and I just think AG deserves the same chance. Miller had some quality upper class talent to work with when he came in, Grant had little and has one of the youngest rosters in the country. It's going to take time.
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  #74  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:57 AM
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Odds makers have five home team favorites:

VCU giving 12 to Fordham
LASALLE giving 8 to St. Louis - kind of surprised at the amount of points
ST. BONA giving 10 to Umass
GWU giving 3 to St. Joseph
RHODE ISLAND giving 17 to George Mason - not surprised

And two home team underdogs:

Dayton giving 3 1/2 to DUQUESNE
Davidson giving 4 1/2 to RICHMOND
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  #75  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:10 PM
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I think we were the only favored team that lost. It's going to be a very long year, boys and girls. The Duquesne announcers said that Anthony Grant was faced with a "work in progress," he was not kidding.

How many layups and east shots around the rim did we miss?

What happened to X. Williams? Is he injured? Was that Jay Gruden on the floor at the end of the first half? If so, why not Williams?
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  #76  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:18 PM
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This Team

and this coach need to improve a lot to get to a 500 season. We have returned to the days of Jim O'Brien. What a drastic drop-off.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:18 PM
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Crosby out. Williams probably injured. Kostas and Svoboda not looking college ready. Crutcher and a Davis looking like true freshman. Landers shows brilliance along with freshman tendencies. Defense showing no improvement. Team flounders at the end of of each half. Cunningham fights to stay out of foul trouble. He gets no help on the boards. DD trying to force a lot and then hangs his head.

Joey Gruden not embarrass himself today.

This is just not a good team this year.
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  #78  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Strength of schedule will pay dividends, 15-3, ;-)
Did I say 15-3?!?!? Silly me, 3-15 might be closer. The last 5 minutes of the first half were the ugliest minutes of basketball I've seen, until the last 5 minutes of the game.
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  #79  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
and this coach need to improve a lot to get to a 500 season. We have returned to the days of Jim O'Brien. What a drastic drop-off.
The question is will they? At this point, will the team improve in games 11 - 20, compared to 1 - 10. Not looking good so far. We'll see.
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  #80  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
The question is will they? At this point, will the team improve in games 11 - 20, compared to 1 - 10. Not looking good so far. We'll see.
The most important question is how serious did they look in the layup line before the start of the second half?
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  #81  
Old 12-30-2017, 11:53 PM
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I thought our OOC SOS was supposed to pay dividends in a game like this?

Duquesne was picked dead last in the A10.
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  #82  
Old 12-31-2017, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I thought our OOC SOS was supposed to pay dividends in a game like this?

Duquesne was picked dead last in the A10.
To be fair, I believe Duquesne & Dambrot were underrated.

Problem is, it's beginning to look like UD & Grant were overrated.
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  #83  
Old 12-31-2017, 02:08 AM
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Duquesne is in better shape than we are short & long term
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Duquesne is in better shape than we are short & long term
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They can only hope since they haven't done anything since 1979.
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:53 AM
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Season Ticket Fan, I agree with your assessment.

How many times were we out rebounded by one DU player when we had 3 men under the net? Kostas needs a good talking too about his attitude on court. He had no business taunting the DU player and getting a technical.

I am willing to give AG a long leash. This is not his true team. But I would like to see some fire out of him. I do like to see some fire in a coach. Appearing calm walking up and down with his suit coat buttoned does not convey anger, disappointment at or teaching of
players. Sit DD down after one of his rushed shots and talk to him and then put him back onto the floor.

We have been spoiled with success for the past few years and are impatient with having to wait for players to improve and perform up to our expectations. I do think there is a lot of talent on this team but it will need a year and playing together. Now with the start of the A10 season, they are learning what it means to be playing toward. Every game matters and there are no patsy opponents.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:52 AM
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Anybody Who Listened

to Bucky Bockhorn's pre-game assessment of the Flyers chances in yesterday's game and in the A-10 this year could hear the concern and disappointment in his voice. This man attends practices and sees what is going on. The team appears to be ill prepared for games and the in game decisions by the players and coaches lead to losing. The immediate future for this team looks quite bleak. There is little reason for Flyer fans to be confident in the ability of this team
to improve much. Bucky concluded his game comments when he said to Larry "It's going to be a long a.. bus ride home."
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post

How many times were we out rebounded by one DU player when we had 3 men under the net? Kostas needs a good talking too about his attitude on court. He had no business taunting the DU player and getting a technical.
When you are lacking in muscle, undersized and inexperienced, and the masses call for you to get tougher, the things you do are:

*push and shove
*flail your arms
*elbow your opponent
*talk trash
*bark at the refs

The end result is predictable. When we finally took the lead back at 61-60, we acted like the game was over. We are playing like the kids that we are. And we are short handed.
Next up, Bonnies. Oh boy.
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  #88  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
to Bucky Bockhorn's pre-game assessment of the Flyers chances in yesterday's game and in the A-10 this year could hear the concern and disappointment in his voice. This man attends practices and sees what is going on. The team appears to be ill prepared for games and the in game decisions by the players and coaches lead to losing. The immediate future for this team looks quite bleak. There is little reason for Flyer fans to be confident in the ability of this team
to improve much. Bucky concluded his game comments when he said to Larry "It's going to be a long a.. bus ride home."
Agree completely.
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  #89  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Next up, Bonnies. Oh boy.
Start drinking now.
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