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  #1  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:20 PM
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Thoughts (formerly known as Facts)

1. A win is a win. But for all the great scheduling, should have never played Ball State to open the home slate. Penn anyone?
2. Archie did a lot for our program. And his success is his reward, IU is flat out a better job.
3. However, that ship has sailed. I don't get rooting for IU just because AM coaches there. He is a big boy. He is not your nephew. You are a Flyer Fan. He wants our recruits and vice versa.
4. Crutcher looks legit, very fluid.
5. Looking forward to seeing Svoboda play, he was sick I guess?
6. No Pierce? CAG didnt like the matchup? I have not seen him address this?
7. Love how great the arena is, still people finding faults.
8. It's the first game. And now I know that you are one of the red sweater wearers.
9. Any new beers available at the arena?
10. This still applies and should be a goal to work towards every single year. https://tinyurl.com/y96yv3vm
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:44 PM
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1. I understand the sentiment here, but I disagree. I understand we will be better in a few weeks, but so will Ball State. And we only have one game to get ready for a tournament with teams much better than Penn. We needed a game to challenge us and give AG a chance to see what he has.
2/3. Yes, IU is a better job. I was sad he left, but I totally understood. Yes, I wish him success in the future. I don't want that to come at the expense of our success, but in my eyes he is always part of our family. I know not all of you feel that way - and that's fine.
4. I liked what I saw from Crutcher, but AG is pursuing PGs very heavily for 2018/2019. That tells me he doesn't see Crutcher as someone who can hold down the PG spot for 30 minutes a game.
5. Yes, he was sick, I agree that I am looking forward to seeing him
6. Pierce isn't ready yet. This was a good match up for a big guy like him. He needs time for his game to catch up to his body.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:53 PM
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I really like the new center-hung scoreboard. I sit on a corner in the lower 200's. I noticed that my 4-year-old watched it sometimes because he is small enough to get blocked by some heads in front of us. It also captivated him during some of the breaks in the action.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
4. I liked what I saw from Crutcher, but AG is pursuing PGs very heavily for 2018/2019. That tells me he doesn't see Crutcher as someone who can hold down the PG spot for 30 minutes a game.
Why does it mean that? Crosby is a Junior. We would need another one to be ready by 2019 either way, because Crosby will be gone by then.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
1. A win is a win. But for all the great scheduling, should have never played Ball State to open the home slate. Penn anyone?
2. Archie did a lot for our program. And his success is his reward, IU is flat out a better job.
3. However, that ship has sailed. I don't get rooting for IU just because AM coaches there. He is a big boy. He is not your nephew. You are a Flyer Fan. He wants our recruits and vice versa.
4. Crutcher looks legit, very fluid.
5. Looking forward to seeing Svoboda play, he was sick I guess?
6. No Pierce? CAG didnt like the matchup? I have not seen him address this?
7. Love how great the arena is, still people finding faults.
8. It's the first game. And now I know that you are one of the red sweater wearers.
9. Any new beers available at the arena?
10. This still applies and should be a goal to work towards every single year. https://tinyurl.com/y96yv3vm
No drinking?
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
No drinking?
I forgot to add that. But yes, there was drinking involved. How else can someone go on this board?
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:45 AM
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I can just imagine Anthony's laughter when someone tells him he shouldn't schedule Ball State so early in the season. And for sure don't schedule Baldwin Wallace either.

Thankfully Grant has set a higher bar.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
4. I liked what I saw from Crutcher, but AG is pursuing PGs very heavily for 2018/2019. That tells me he doesn't see Crutcher as someone who can hold down the PG spot for 30 minutes a game.
I don't think that we can come to this conclusion yet at all. Maybe he does not see Cohill as a PG but more of a 2. That means after next year we are back at only 1 PG. He has also shown that he has no problem throwing 2 PG's on the floor at once. Has done it multiple times now during the exhibition and Ball St. I personally do not see there being any evidence to support this as of yet.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Why does it mean that? Crosby is a Junior. We would need another one to be ready by 2019 either way, because Crosby will be gone by then.
He had 1 scholarship to work with in 2018 (may be more, but initially it was 1). Almost every guy we were linked to was a PG. We ended up with a guy that can probably play both 1 and 2. If you have Crosby coming back as a senior and a future star coming back as a sophomore - I don't think PG is the position to invest your only scholarship - yet that was the main position we were chasing.

I like Crutcher - I do. And it's only been one game - so I'm not ready to give any kind of final assessment. But even before the season began I thought it was curious how hard AG was pursuing a PG if he had confidence that the JC's could hold down the spot for the next two years.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post

I like Crutcher - I do. And it's only been one game - so I'm not ready to give any kind of final assessment. But even before the season began I thought it was curious how hard AG was pursuing a PG if he had confidence that the JC's could hold down the spot for the next two years.
Is there a problem having two good point guards on the roster and letting the best 1 play? I never understood the, we have 1 good player at that position why recruit another mentality on this board. Injuries, suspension, transfers all happen in college athletics. Recruit the best players possible and let playing time play out. I know that is not really what you were saying, but I have seen that from others on here as well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
He had 1 scholarship to work with in 2018 (may be more, but initially it was 1). Almost every guy we were linked to was a PG. We ended up with a guy that can probably play both 1 and 2. If you have Crosby coming back as a senior and a future star coming back as a sophomore - I don't think PG is the position to invest your only scholarship - yet that was the main position we were chasing.

I like Crutcher - I do. And it's only been one game - so I'm not ready to give any kind of final assessment. But even before the season began I thought it was curious how hard AG was pursuing a PG if he had confidence that the JC's could hold down the spot for the next two years.
Coach probably has read the postings on UDPride, and was scared to death. Now he is wondering what these people were talking about.

As to scheduling Ball St, what is the problem we won? Let's not fool ourselves Balls is a nice MAC team, but they had some serious weaknesses in the paint and on defense.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:04 AM
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Didn't Villanova have a really good year playing 4 good guards a lot? I like the size that AG is recruiting at guard. They blur the lines between wings and guards.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:20 AM
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2. Archie did a lot for our program. And his success is his reward, IU is flat out a better job.
3. However, that ship has sailed. I don't get rooting for IU just because AM coaches there. He is a big boy. He is not your nephew. You are a Flyer Fan. He wants our recruits and vice versa.
Although I was sad to see AM go, it was mainly due to the fact that any coaching change whether the HC leaves for a new position or he/she is asked to leave, brings with it a ton and a half of uncertainty.

Need to remember that this job is a career in a business that rewards well IF you have success. It also is a position that as HC one needs to have some hubris within themselves to stay in that type of job. Always looking for the next challenge to overcome. AM certainly had a few challenges in his stay here. #1. Taking on a HC job, 2. The year of the True Team, etc.

However it seemed to me that Archie lost some focus at the end of his last 2 seasons here. I caught or perceived a slight distance in his public appearances before and after games. It may have been me but that just sticks out in my memory ...

Although we would like to think that all our coaches are "Flyers Forever" of the most recent ones we have had (Purnell, Gregory, and now Archie) of the first 2, BG would be most connected to UD. Purnell seemed to be in "career mode" where ever he went and again that's OK. I believe BG truly thought this place was special. It is too soon for me to think/say that Archie has that type of connection. I know this: One item that he will carry around with him is that "team I will always remember". I believe that connection to the seniors that just left allowed Archie to see that this was a good time to leave. Since it was to be a year of transition for the team why not see himself in transition also? Had the IU job not opened, I believe we would still have Archie here. But we don't and I'm fine with that too.

I see Anthony Grant as THE HC with the "Flyer Forever" mode. And I think we all can agree that that an't such a bad thing!



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Old 11-13-2017, 11:40 AM
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Calling on Rollo...

...this may have been discussed elsewhere (apologies). But can someone (named Rollo) help explain the FT fiasco late in the game when the ref handed the ball to the Ball State player (Persons), then blew the whistle over "apparent" confusion as to whether it was a 2 shot foul or 1-n-1. Clearly after the ref blew his whistle, by like 2 seconds, the player continues to shoot first FT and makes it. After review they "apparently" confirm the 2 shot FT and ALLOW the first FT. After watching the DVR game replay, even the announcers repeated over and over: "they can't count that FT, they can't count that FT...".

Help!
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
...this may have been discussed elsewhere (apologies). But can someone (named Rollo) help explain the FT fiasco late in the game when the ref handed the ball to the Ball State player (Persons), then blew the whistle over "apparent" confusion as to whether it was a 2 shot foul or 1-n-1. Clearly after the ref blew his whistle, by like 2 seconds, the player continues to shoot first FT and makes it. After review they "apparently" confirm the 2 shot FT and ALLOW the first FT. After watching the DVR game replay, even the announcers repeated over and over: "they can't count that FT, they can't count that FT...".

Help!
I answered this on Saturday morning but I'm sure it didn't help.

When the whistle blows - inadvertent or not - play stops. It's a 'dead ball'. I don't know of any situation where points count during a 'dead ball' so I can't support the refs call. I reffed Saturday morning and discussed the situation with my partners. All agreed the FT should have been waved off and the refs should have re-shot the FT. We also all agreed that had he missed, the refs would have had no choice but to allow the shooter to re-shoot the FT due to the whistle.

I read, re-read and re-re-read the rule and case book regarding this situation and it isn't specifically addressed. Inadvertent whistles are discussed in normal situations including jump shots that have been released, but nothing about FTs taken after a whistle. Therefore, any decision made has to fall back on what can/cannot happen in a 'dead ball' situation...and scoring isn't an option!

But what do I know, huh? What do the real know-it-alls (you know, the 'A10 Refs Suck', Rollo's an idiot, beer swigging, YMCA men's league has-beens, never read a rulebook in their life) have to say about this?
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:05 PM
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Here you go Radar.

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31406
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
I can just imagine Anthony's laughter when someone tells him he shouldn't schedule Ball State so early in the season. And for sure don't schedule Baldwin Wallace either.

Thankfully Grant has set a higher bar.
So, you think scheduling BSU in AG's opener was actually a good idea?
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
He had 1 scholarship to work with in 2018 (may be more, but initially it was 1). Almost every guy we were linked to was a PG. We ended up with a guy that can probably play both 1 and 2. If you have Crosby coming back as a senior and a future star coming back as a sophomore - I don't think PG is the position to invest your only scholarship - yet that was the main position we were chasing.

I like Crutcher - I do. And it's only been one game - so I'm not ready to give any kind of final assessment. But even before the season began I thought it was curious how hard AG was pursuing a PG if he had confidence that the JC's could hold down the spot for the next two years.
If Crutcher can play the 2, I don't see a problem and see the need and advantage. We have plenty of 3 and 4s. The only other need would be another 5. But I like the fact that we can have many combo PG/SG types. Gives you a lot of versatility. Especially late in a game when trying to hold a lead, when you need good ball handlers and FT shooters. An injury makes it easier to move players from 1 to 2 or 2 to 1. If we would've had better combo guards the past 2 seasons, we might have been able to rest Scoochie more and had him perform even stronger.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
He had 1 scholarship to work with in 2018 (may be more, but initially it was 1). Almost every guy we were linked to was a PG. We ended up with a guy that can probably play both 1 and 2. If you have Crosby coming back as a senior and a future star coming back as a sophomore - I don't think PG is the position to invest your only scholarship - yet that was the main position we were chasing.

I like Crutcher - I do. And it's only been one game - so I'm not ready to give any kind of final assessment. But even before the season began I thought it was curious how hard AG was pursuing a PG if he had confidence that the JC's could hold down the spot for the next two years.
The lone senior this year is a 2 but I thought he was recruited as a combo, so a combo makes sense as his replacement. Any other scholarships should be looked at as the best available player, IMO.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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We won this one by the skin of our teeth. I think it was a horrendous idea to schedule BSU in AG's opener. Yet another scheduling screw up by UD.

Last edited by ud2; 11-13-2017 at 01:49 PM.. Reason: screw up not screw-up
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:57 PM
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Here are some NCAA Rule definitions...RED is the Rule, Blue is my comment...follow along:

Section 5. Dead Ball
Art. 1.
The ball shall become dead or remain dead when:

a. Any goal is made.
b. It is apparent that the free throw will not be successful on a free throw for
a technical foul or a false double foul or a free throw that is to be followed
by another free throw.
c. A held ball occurs or the ball lodges between the backboard and the ring
or comes to rest on the flange.
d. An official blows the whistle except when the try is in flight.
e. Time expires for a half or extra period.
f. An official blows the whistle when a foul is committed by a shooter’s
teammate before the ball is released for a try for goal.
g. An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through
9-15) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-17) or
there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).

So when the refs blew the whistle for the foul, the ball is dead and no scoring can happen.

Art. 2.
The ball shall become live when:

a. On a jump ball, the ball leaves the official’s hand.
b. On a throw-in, the ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in.
c. On a free throw, the ball is at the disposal of the free-thrower.

When the ref passes the ball to the shooter, the ball becomes live and a team can score!

At this point and well before the FT is taken, the whistle blows and - see above - Rule 5.1.d states the ball becomes 'dead'.

2 seconds after the whistle/dead ball, the FT is shot and is good. But it happened during a 'dead ball' situation...

Art. 2.
After a dead ball, play may be resumed in one of the following three ways:

jump ball,
by placing the ball at the disposal of the thrower-in or
by placing the ball at the disposal of a free-thrower.

Which means that the only way we can get to a live ball situation is to take the ball from the FT shooter and pass it back to him, essentially making the 'dead ball' become 'live'.

So let's review what happened:

Whistle blows (dead ball) shooter awarded 2 FTs.
Ref passes ball to FT shooter (live ball)
Ref blows whistle (dead ball)
FT shooter attempts and makes FT (during a dead ball)
Refs huddle and determine the FT counts because they were in a 'live ball' situation(???).


The only way the FT can count is if the refs determined that the ball was in flight when they blew the whistle. The whistle was clearly blown before the shot attempt was made, so what was the official explanation?

Royally inquiring minds want to know!







__________________
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Last edited by rollo; 11-13-2017 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We won this one by the skin of our teeth. I think it was a horrendous idea to schedule BSU in AG's opener. Yet another scheduling screw up by UD.
This is one of the dumbest of dumb takes. The Ball State game was unequivocal win! A screw up? To have a solid game against a top-100 opponent at home? A good tune up before an exempt tournament, a good shooting team that had a good amount of upperclassmen... this was a “horrendous idea?” Please tell me you are joking.

Maybe we called up Ball State and this was the only date that worked for them. Maybe we wanted a tougher game to start with. Ball State is 100% the type of team we ought to be playing. To call it a horrendous idea and a screw up shows a gigantic lack of understanding. This was a home run, and in the long run, it’ll be good for both teams.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So, you think scheduling BSU in AG's opener was actually a good idea?
No, it wasn't a good idea. It was a GREAT idea. It may be the gift that keeps on giving. It was a great idea even if we had lost. If we have any notion of getting an NCAA bid, we have to schedule these kind of games and win them.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So, you think scheduling BSU in AG's opener was actually a good idea?
Yes, I do. Normally, we have 2 full weeks before our exempt tournament, which allows us to play a couple of tune up games. This year we had less that a week. Play on Friday and most of the teams are getting to Charleston on Tuesday. We played a tough game to help us prepare for the tournament. BSU did exactly what we needed them to do. They played us in a closely contested game, and forced us to work and play an entire 40 minutes, which we will most likely be doing in all our games in Charleston.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We won this one by the skin of our teeth. I think it was a horrendous idea to schedule BSU in AG's opener. Yet another scheduling screw up by UD.
I know, you think we should have started on the road.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Yes, I do. Normally, we have 2 full weeks before our exempt tournament, which allows us to play a couple of tune up games. This year we had less that a week. Play on Friday and most of the teams are getting to Charleston on Tuesday. We played a tough game to help us prepare for the tournament. BSU did exactly what we needed them to do. They played us in a closely contested game, and forced us to work and play an entire 40 minutes, which we will most likely be doing in all our games in Charleston.
Yep. A gimme type of game with a lineup made up of nobody that has ever been a starter for a whole season and a sophomore that only had 50 plus minutes of playing time in his whole career would most likely give them a nice high but also a false sense of what they have to do to be ready for this week.

I hope that the players are not satisfied with the opening game win and realize they have to work their butts off to have any success in the Charleston tournament. Don't believe the motivation would be as easy with a blow out at home against a creampuff.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We won this one by the skin of our teeth. I think it was a horrendous idea to schedule BSU in AG's opener. Yet another scheduling screw up by UD.
Wouldn't expect anything positive from you ud2. I thought the scheduling was and is fine. We didn't open with the defending national champs, but rather a good team from the MAC. We only have one game before the tourney. Better to play a good team rather that a VMI or somebody like that. Given your track record, I have a feeling that it won't matter what UD or AG do, you will be the voice of negativity.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Here are some NCAA Rule definitions...RED is the Rule, Blue is my comment...follow along:

Section 5. Dead Ball
Art. 1.
The ball shall become dead or remain dead when:

a. Any goal is made.
b. It is apparent that the free throw will not be successful on a free throw for
a technical foul or a false double foul or a free throw that is to be followed
by another free throw.
c. A held ball occurs or the ball lodges between the backboard and the ring
or comes to rest on the flange.
d. An official blows the whistle except when the try is in flight.
e. Time expires for a half or extra period.
f. An official blows the whistle when a foul is committed by a shooter’s
teammate before the ball is released for a try for goal.
g. An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through
9-15) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-17) or
there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).

So when the refs blew the whistle for the foul, the ball is dead and no scoring can happen.

Art. 2.
The ball shall become live when:

a. On a jump ball, the ball leaves the official’s hand.
b. On a throw-in, the ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in.
c. On a free throw, the ball is at the disposal of the free-thrower.

When the ref passes the ball to the shooter, the ball becomes live and a team can score!

At this point and well before the FT is taken, the whistle blows and - see above - Rule 5.1.d states the ball becomes 'dead'.

2 seconds after the whistle/dead ball, the FT is shot and is good. But it happened during a 'dead ball' situation...

Art. 2.
After a dead ball, play may be resumed in one of the following three ways:

jump ball,
by placing the ball at the disposal of the thrower-in or
by placing the ball at the disposal of a free-thrower.

Which means that the only way we can get to a live ball situation is to take the ball from the FT shooter and pass it back to him, essentially making the 'dead ball' become 'live'.

So let's review what happened:

Whistle blows (dead ball) shooter awarded 2 FTs.
Ref passes ball to FT shooter (live ball)
Ref blows whistle (dead ball)
FT shooter attempts and makes FT (during a dead ball)
Refs huddle and determine the FT counts because they were in a 'live ball' situation(???).


The only way the FT can count is if the refs determined that the ball was in flight when they blew the whistle. The whistle was clearly blown before the shot attempt was made, so what was the official explanation?

Royally inquiring minds want to know!







Rollo, thanks for the research. Given the above, I can almost guaran****tee you the explanation given was ball in flight. We had Winkin', Blinkin, and Nod for our officiating crew Fri night.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
This is one of the dumbest of dumb takes. The Ball State game was unequivocal win! A screw up? To have a solid game against a top-100 opponent at home? A good tune up before an exempt tournament, a good shooting team that had a good amount of upperclassmen... this was a “horrendous idea?” Please tell me you are joking.
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THirt, he's not joking any more (or less) than he was not joking on the "Ball State" thread started before the game. With some it's a waste of electrons...
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Here are some NCAA Rule definitions...RED is the Rule, Blue is my comment...follow along:

Section 5. Dead Ball
Art. 1.
The ball shall become dead or remain dead when:

a. Any goal is made.
b. It is apparent that the free throw will not be successful on a free throw for
a technical foul or a false double foul or a free throw that is to be followed
by another free throw.
c. A held ball occurs or the ball lodges between the backboard and the ring
or comes to rest on the flange.
d. An official blows the whistle except when the try is in flight.
e. Time expires for a half or extra period.
f. An official blows the whistle when a foul is committed by a shooter’s
teammate before the ball is released for a try for goal.
g. An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through
9-15) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-17) or
there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).

So when the refs blew the whistle for the foul, the ball is dead and no scoring can happen.

Art. 2.
The ball shall become live when:

a. On a jump ball, the ball leaves the official’s hand.
b. On a throw-in, the ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in.
c. On a free throw, the ball is at the disposal of the free-thrower.

When the ref passes the ball to the shooter, the ball becomes live and a team can score!

At this point and well before the FT is taken, the whistle blows and - see above - Rule 5.1.d states the ball becomes 'dead'.

2 seconds after the whistle/dead ball, the FT is shot and is good. But it happened during a 'dead ball' situation...

Art. 2.
After a dead ball, play may be resumed in one of the following three ways:

jump ball,
by placing the ball at the disposal of the thrower-in or
by placing the ball at the disposal of a free-thrower.

Which means that the only way we can get to a live ball situation is to take the ball from the FT shooter and pass it back to him, essentially making the 'dead ball' become 'live'.

So let's review what happened:

Whistle blows (dead ball) shooter awarded 2 FTs.
Ref passes ball to FT shooter (live ball)
Ref blows whistle (dead ball)
FT shooter attempts and makes FT (during a dead ball)
Refs huddle and determine the FT counts because they were in a 'live ball' situation(???).


The only way the FT can count is if the refs determined that the ball was in flight when they blew the whistle. The whistle was clearly blown before the shot attempt was made, so what was the official explanation?

Royally inquiring minds want to know!







I'm so disappointed this was never a YMTC. Major missed opportunity.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:17 PM
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With the quality of the A10 this year, that team probably would not do all that bad in our conference.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
4. I liked what I saw from Crutcher, but AG is pursuing PGs very heavily for 2018/2019. That tells me he doesn't see Crutcher as someone who can hold down the PG spot for 30 minutes a game.
Maybe, but I think if history tells us anything you need to stock up on them. Injuries and transfers happen.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
The only other need would be another 5.
I guess that's my point - we have an equal or greater need at the 5 - but many of our targets seem to be PGs.

I could totally be reading too much into that. It's just something that caught my eye even before the season started.

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Old 11-13-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I guess that's my point - we have an equal or greater need at the 5 - but many of our targets seem to be PGs.

I could totally be reading too much into that. It's just something that caught my eye even before the season started.

Big Steves are hard to come by apparently, so you can't just narrow your search for one since it might take 3 years or more to find it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
This is one of the dumbest of dumb takes. The Ball State game was unequivocal win! A screw up? To have a solid game against a top-100 opponent at home? A good tune up before an exempt tournament, a good shooting team that had a good amount of upperclassmen... this was a “horrendous idea?” Please tell me you are joking.

Maybe we called up Ball State and this was the only date that worked for them. Maybe we wanted a tougher game to start with. Ball State is 100% the type of team we ought to be playing. To call it a horrendous idea and a screw up shows a gigantic lack of understanding. This was a home run, and in the long run, it’ll be good for both teams.
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So, what do you really think?
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
This is one of the dumbest of dumb takes. The Ball State game was unequivocal win! A screw up? To have a solid game against a top-100 opponent at home? A good tune up before an exempt tournament, a good shooting team that had a good amount of upperclassmen... this was a “horrendous idea?” Please tell me you are joking.

Maybe we called up Ball State and this was the only date that worked for them. Maybe we wanted a tougher game to start with. Ball State is 100% the type of team we ought to be playing. To call it a horrendous idea and a screw up shows a gigantic lack of understanding. This was a home run, and in the long run, it’ll be good for both teams.
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Totally disagree. Later in the year, yes. 1st game for AG, heck no.

Last edited by ud2; 11-14-2017 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
No, it wasn't a good idea. It was a GREAT idea. It may be the gift that keeps on giving. It was a great idea even if we had lost. If we have any notion of getting an NCAA bid, we have to schedule these kind of games and win them.
Your point would be more logical if we did not have teams like Penn, etc. on the schedule. Open with Penn, etc., play BSU later.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Yes, I do. Normally, we have 2 full weeks before our exempt tournament, which allows us to play a couple of tune up games. This year we had less that a week. Play on Friday and most of the teams are getting to Charleston on Tuesday. We played a tough game to help us prepare for the tournament. BSU did exactly what we needed them to do. They played us in a closely contested game, and forced us to work and play an entire 40 minutes, which we will most likely be doing in all our games in Charleston.
Too risky. A loss in a buy game is too harmful. A buy game loss is a major black mark.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Wouldn't expect anything positive from you ud2. I thought the scheduling was and is fine. We didn't open with the defending national champs, but rather a good team from the MAC. We only have one game before the tourney. Better to play a good team rather that a VMI or somebody like that. Given your track record, I have a feeling that it won't matter what UD or AG do, you will be the voice of negativity.
Scheduling is not fine. Butler and X still play 15/15 some of the time even now. We have never done it. They want to excel, we do not. UD only cares about $. No surprise that they are in the BE, and we are not.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball View Post
Maybe, but I think if history tells us anything you need to stock up on them. Injuries and transfers happen.
The other thing to consider is that AG might like playing with two PGs at times. Not sure if was depth or desire on his part but it seemed like Crosby and Crutcher were on the court at the same time against Ball St
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
THirt, he's not joking any more (or less) than he was not joking on the "Ball State" thread started before the game. With some it's a waste of electrons...
If we had lost to BSU, then I think many more would be questioning the wisdom of opening with BSU.

Win at the buzzer, dodged a major bullet.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:57 PM
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Trey Landers impressed me game one. Played within himself.

Rebounding by the guards was great. Team rebounding effort by every position

Pierce, I'm curious to how much run he gets in blowouts
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If we had lost to BSU, then I think many more would be questioning the wisdom of opening with BSU.

Win at the buzzer, dodged a major bullet.
But we didn't lose. Doesn't matter what could have happened, what almost happened, etc. What matters is the W in the column rather than the L.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:01 PM
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And here is a news flash: nobody in the BE cares how UD does in the Learfield Cup, they only care about how UD does in men's basketball.

Take $ away from the other sports and go to 15/15 already. Having 2 more tough games per year, every year makes a big, big difference.

Only 2 7 seeds and a 4 seed in 34 years, not that good really.

Last edited by ud2; 11-14-2017 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:03 PM
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I think a year like last year was the year to do that, with this years squad, I think having some more home games makes sense

If there's a veteran team like last year, I'm all for picking up an extra road/neutral game
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Scheduling is not fine. Butler and X still play 15/15 some of the time even now. We have never done it. They want to excel, we do not. UD only cares about $. No surprise that they are in the BE, and we are not.
And there we have it the old 15/15 schedule. Scheduling is fine. Keep those positive thoughts coming.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If we had lost to BSU, then I think many more would be questioning the wisdom of opening with BSU.

Win at the buzzer, dodged a major bullet.
If we lost people would be questioning their expectations for this team rather than the scheduling. This team had so many question marks, the schedule was far back on the list. As it turns out, fans are now thinking about the similar way 2013-2014 started and to be honest, there's other similarities to that team.

Starting point guard who didn't show much to get excited about in previous season(s) Price-Crosby.
Senior starter who needs to step his game up 200 percent Oliver-Baby D
Returning starter who earned his starting spot the previous season but not on day one Pierre-XW
Starter at the 5 position who didn't play nearly the minutes expected of them the previous season Kavs(obviously zero minutes)-Cunningham.
Starter who either didn't play or played insignificant minutes the prior season Sibert-Landers
Close to a handful of 1st year players who are going to be counted on to eat minutes: Scooch/Davis/Pollard-All our Freshman(except for Svoboda because he's older with much more experience so I'll put him in my next comparison).
A steady 6th man off the bench Vee-Svoboda
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Scheduling is not fine. Butler and X still play 15/15 some of the time even now. We have never done it. They want to excel, we do not. UD only cares about $. No surprise that they are in the BE, and we are not.
Have you contacted UD to say you would donate to them the lost revenue of that game? Money talks, opinions walk.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If we had lost to BSU, then I think many more would be questioning the wisdom of opening with BSU.

Win at the buzzer, dodged a major bullet.
Purely and simply not true. The scheduling was great---win or lose. The only thing we might question is giving a 14 point lead away at warp speed. Anthony's second ooc game one year at Alabama was Oklahoma. First game that season was the equivalent of an exhibition game.
Coach is aggressive and challenges his teams. No issue with that.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Scheduling is not fine. Butler and X still play 15/15 some of the time even now. We have never done it. They want to excel, we do not. UD only cares about $. No surprise that they are in the BE, and we are not.
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And here is a news flash: nobody in the BE cares how UD does in the Learfield Cup, they only care about how UD does in men's basketball.

Take $ away from the other sports and go to 15/15 already. Having 2 more tough games per year, every year makes a big, big difference.

Only 2 7 seeds and a 4 seed in 34 years, not that good really.
Yawn.....
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Scheduling is not fine. Butler and X still play 15/15 some of the time even now. We have never done it. They want to excel, we do not. UD only cares about $. No surprise that they are in the BE, and we are not.
Butler is playing 17 home games this year and 14 A/N
http://butlersports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

Xavier is playing 18 H and 13 A/N
http://www.goxavier.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

But keep throwing out that miss information and year after year that I correct you on each year. This info is straight from the schools posted schedules.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Too risky. A loss in a buy game is too harmful. A buy game loss is a major black mark.
First you complain we don't play enough away games against good teams. Then you complain when we play a decent team at home. They challenged us and got us ready for Charleston. It's a MAC team. A MAC team (even a decent one) is just fine as an opener.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Butler is playing 17 home games this year and 14 A/N
http://butlersports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

Xavier is playing 18 H and 13 A/N
http://www.goxavier.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

But keep throwing out that miss information and year after year that I correct you on each year. This info is straight from the schools posted schedules.
Obviously, Butler and Xavier don't want to excel. We're at 16/14 this season (and last season).
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Is there a problem having two good point guards on the roster and letting the best 1 play?
I think the ideal roster construction is 3 good PGs on the roster, with at least 1 being an upper classman. Encouraging what we got out of Crosby and Crutcher though. If we have 2 good PGs on the roster this year, that's more than I would have expected.

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I never understood the, we have 1 good player at that position why recruit another mentality on this board. Injuries, suspension, transfers all happen in college athletics. Recruit the best players possible and let playing time play out. I know that is not really what you were saying, but I have seen that from others on here as well.
The don't recruit over people take is the worst. The goal of each recruiting class is basically to recruit over the last one. Its up to the returning guys to put in work to not lose their minutes. Because the idea is to get the best players you can every year. You want to develop and retain those who buy-in and can move the program forward.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Encouraging what we got out of Crosby and Crutcher though. If we have 2 good PGs on the roster this year, that's more than I would have expected.
Is that. . . a NEARLY positive comment about Crosby? Maybe some "green shoots" of positivity for our PG situation after an offseason of doom and gloom. Not necessarily you, just in general.

My hope is that we'll have more people coming across from the dark side. He's not SS, but this year's team isn't going to the Sweet 16 if we had Kyrie Irving at PG.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Is that. . . a NEARLY positive comment about Crosby? Maybe some "green shoots" of positivity for our PG situation after an offseason of doom and gloom. Not necessarily you, just in general.

My hope is that we'll have more people coming across from the dark side. He's not SS, but this year's team isn't going to the Sweet 16 if we had Kyrie Irving at PG.
You must mean broken face Kyrie because healed face Kyrie takes us to the 2nd week easily.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Is that. . . a NEARLY positive comment about Crosby? Maybe some "green shoots" of positivity for our PG situation after an offseason of doom and gloom. Not necessarily you, just in general.
Oh, I've been pretty doom and gloom. I've never questioned Crosby's talent. Decision making and self-confidence have been his downfall. So Crosby having a nice game in the first game of the season is pretty huge for our prospects moving forward. I'm still a bit skeptical but if he leads to us a nice showing in Charleston, I'll be giddy, and feeling super positive!
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:13 PM
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Bucky has been very complimentary re Crosby, Crutcher, & Jordan Davis. With those three coming back, and adding Dwayne Cohill, we are looking pretty good at the guard spot.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Have you contacted UD to say you would donate to them the lost revenue of that game? Money talks, opinions walk.
This is what I do not understand: how comes Xavier, Butler, VCU, BYU, Gonzaga, etc. all can afford to go without one more home game, and UD cannot?

And don't trot out the tired, old excuse that UD can't find anybody decent to play them in a home and home, while all of these other teams have been able to find willing opponents. UD basketball has been around for close to 115 years, and in all that time, they have never had the opportunity to play a 15/15? Come on.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think a year like last year was the year to do that, with this years squad, I think having some more home games makes sense

If there's a veteran team like last year, I'm all for picking up an extra road/neutral game
Xavier, practically every single year, and Butler, maybe every year or maybe every other year, played a 15/15 for around 10 or 15 years in a row before joining the Big East.

If UD would want to take a year off every now and then, that would be fine.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:36 PM
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It is just hard to get really jazzed about UD basketball when you realize that a 7 seed is probably going to be the best that we can ever do most years.

We may have a once-in-a-half generation type season, like we did with Purnell as a 4 seed, every 15 years.

Or we have an Elite 8 run once every 30 years with a worse seed.

Beyond that, the schedule most likely simply isn't going to allow for anything more than that on a consistent basis. I, for one, think that we should be aiming higher and demanding more.

I am not satisfied with a 7 seed being our ceiling most years.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It is just hard to get really jazzed about UD basketball when you realize that a 7 seed is probably going to be the best that we can ever do most years.

We may have a once-in-a-half generation type season, like we did with Purnell as a 4 seed, every 15 years.

Or we have an Elite 8 run once every 30 years with a worse seed.

Beyond that, the schedule most likely simply isn't going to allow for anything more than that on a consistent basis. I, for one, think that we should be aiming higher and demanding more.

I am not satisfied with a 7 seed being our ceiling most years.
And playing one more road game will give us that?? Besides I am really jazzed up every year for UD basketball, so that won't do it. Better recruits will do it.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And playing one more road game will give us that?? Besides I am really jazzed up every year for UD basketball, so that won't do it. Better recruits will do it.
Yes, it will make getting a better seed much more likely. You are not just adding one more road game.

You are trading 2 buy games for 2 tougher games.

Example:

Year 1: current format: Ball State and Penn at home vs. new format: Alabama at home and Ole Miss away.

Year 2: current format: Bowling Green and Columbia at home vs. new format: at Alabama and Ole Miss at home.
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  #64  
Old 11-15-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Butler is playing 17 home games this year and 14 A/N
http://butlersports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

Xavier is playing 18 H and 13 A/N
http://www.goxavier.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

But keep throwing out that miss information and year after year that I correct you on each year. This info is straight from the schools posted schedules.
No, once again, you are wrong.

I said that since joining the Big East, Xavier and Butler have played a 15/15 SOME of the time.

The New Big East has been around for 5 years, Xavier has played a 15/15 2 out of the 5 years, and Butler has also played a 15/15 2 out of those 5 years.

When those 2 schools were in the A10/Horizon, they played a 15/15 practically every single year for the 10 or 15 years before joining the Big East.

Look it up.

Last edited by ud2; 11-15-2017 at 03:00 PM..
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  #65  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:36 PM
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This 15/15 scheduling concept is interesting. I've never seen it brought up before.
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  #66  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:47 PM
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UD2, lets say your 15/15 plan is implemented. Are you willing to pay approximately 8 to 10% more per season ticket to offset the cost of the lost revenue from the game we lose?
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
This 15/15 scheduling concept is interesting. I've never seen it brought up before.
Be really cool if it included WSU on MLK Day
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Be really cool if it included WSU on MLK Day
Play it at Nutter every year. Red scare and sweater vests invade the place and take over. It would be a home game. UD gets half the gate.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:28 PM
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Pretty amazing that this is all we get after the first game of a season with sooooo many unknowns.... This board is going down the tubes.......
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
UD2, lets say your 15/15 plan is implemented. Are you willing to pay approximately 8 to 10% more per season ticket to offset the cost of the lost revenue from the game we lose?
He doesn't have season tickets. He didn't attend UD. He very rarely comes to a UD game. He goes to some Xavier games. He said this himself awhile back. That's one reason (or is that four) I get sick of him complaining about the schedule.
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  #71  
Old 11-15-2017, 08:25 PM
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And that is assuming Dayton can find a willing team that is worthwhile.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
No, once again, you are wrong.

I said that since joining the Big East, Xavier and Butler have played a 15/15 SOME of the time.

The New Big East has been around for 5 years, Xavier has played a 15/15 2 out of the 5 years, and Butler has also played a 15/15 2 out of those 5 years.

When those 2 schools were in the A10/Horizon, they played a 15/15 practically every single year for the 10 or 15 years before joining the Big East.

Look it up.
I apologize, I took you saying "some of the time even now" as meaning they were this year.
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  #73  
Old 11-16-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
UD2, lets say your 15/15 plan is implemented. Are you willing to pay approximately 8 to 10% more per season ticket to offset the cost of the lost revenue from the game we lose?
Why can't they get the money elsewhere?

And where are you getting 8 to 10%? I am thinking they lose 1/16 of the existing revenue. That is 0.0625 or 6%.

$50 ticket, that is $3 more per ticket. 15 games x $3 = $45 more per year per seat.

Yes, I will pay that increase.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Why can't they get the money elsewhere?.
Because if they could get it elsewhere - they would already be getting it.
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