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  #101  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
5. As Shocka said, the best refs have very bad hearing.
And, may I add after reading this interesting interpretation, short memories.

Go Flyers!

My Team!!!
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  #102  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
...Last night, by the late 2nd half, I witnessed UD Arena fans actually heckling the refs for bad calls that were made against the opponent. That is a first for me in my 50 years of UD arena attendance. That is how bad it was.
I didn’t heckle for bad calls against URI, but I did make a few comments to those sitting around me about the bad calls against the Rams. Usually, the comments were preceded by “Not that I’m complaining, but...”
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  #103  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
The refs wanted to be the show. Period. That's why rollo loved it.

Nooo, that sounds way too egotistic!






Wait...






Never mind.
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  #104  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:23 PM
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Also, I have YouTubeTV so I went back and watched the replay of the palming, and let's just say I could be pretty darn good at basketball if that's not palming. Good luck stopping me when I can do that move and keep dribbling.

And: replay shows all the coaches and players were seated on the bench, and no one was openly showing up the ref on the palming non-call. They could have said something but no one was red-faced screaming at the ref.

He just wanted to be the show.
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  #105  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:41 PM
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The interpretation of the palming rule changed 2 years ago. Odds are the assistants don't know that. I'm sure all the UD fans do, though. They live for this stuff!!
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  #106  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I wear the glasses as much as anyone else. Dude came out to the D on the floor. Unless he mother F'd the refs ol' lady. Let it go.

Had he not whistled the guy no one would have noticed and it didn't impact the game either way other than lead us to talk about how much the officials were involved.

The best basketball games are the games where no one even notices them.

I'm sorry. There is emotion in this game. Call the game to the letter of the law on the floor and call it tight. Don't pull the trigger because of a player's mouth. Trey got hit on a double and did nothing but talk to the opponent telling him to knock it off and play.

Controlling the game means something different to me than it does to some others. Call every touch foul early. Call every hand check. Call holds. Don't bust T's because a guy talked unless it was vulgar beyond belief or totally out of line. Guy jumps off the bench to holler about a call in a high energy game...let it go...give the guys on the bench a look and be done with it. That dude holding a towel had no impact on the game and his 5 feet off the bench didn't hurt a thing other than make that official think he was controlling something that wasn't the problem.
It has nothing to do with glasses. I have done enough baseball, basketball and soccer game and at high enough levels to know when some has said or done enough. I can't help those who played and been pampered enough to think they can say anything and get away with it. If you can't control yourself to stay level headed in any type of game you don't need to be on the bench or in the game. Amazing how players, coached and fans think they have the right to say anything and it is ok.

With that being said I don't think the double "T" should have been called. Maybe the one with Fatts and Chatman because of the push and kick while on the floor was ok. But most of those can be let go without giving both player "T". The first one was just chirping between players...that didn't need the whistle to take care of it.
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  #107  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:53 PM
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I disagree that the refs came from across the floor on the two bench T's. Both times it was Breeding and both times he was the closest official to it or in the best position to see and hear the actions of the assistant coach.
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  #108  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:13 PM
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I actually saw it as less of a palming call than the player actually made a pass and then was the first to touch it. Once he high dribbled above Crutcher (I think his palm stayed over the ball) he threw it ahead about 15 feet and then tracked it down and continued dribbling. I always thought if you don't keep the ball in continuous contact it is deemed a pass. Maybe Rollo can clarify this for me.
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  #109  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I actually saw it as less of a palming call than the player actually made a pass and then was the first to touch it. Once he high dribbled above Crutcher (I think his palm stayed over the ball) he threw it ahead about 15 feet and then tracked it down and continued dribbling. I always thought if you don't keep the ball in continuous contact it is deemed a pass. Maybe Rollo can clarify this for me.
This is a touchy subject, even at Official's meetings...you can pass to yourself is some situations and not in others...I need to see the actual video to tell you the RIGHT call!

Or we can poll everyone's grandma...or those in Sect 411 who drank more than 3 beers and had less than 5 hours of sleep.
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  #110  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:25 PM
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Oldfan, so you don't think the coaches are to blame at all for their players behavior??

What else, sans more Technicals, can the refs do to control behavior?? Hand out chocolates??

Some of you need to think before you post. It's not that simple.
Yes you do Rollo
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  #111  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:30 PM
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  #112  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
This is a touchy subject, even at Official's meetings...you can pass to yourself is some situations and not in others...I need to see the actual video to tell you the RIGHT call!

Or we can poll everyone's grandma...or those in Sect 411 who drank more than 3 beers and had less than 5 hours of sleep.
So the pass Obi made to himself for the #1 Sportscenter play was what? A pass to himself, a travel, or a legal basketball play?
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  #113  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I disagree that the refs came from across the floor on the two bench T's. Both times it was Breeding and both times he was the closest official to it or in the best position to see and hear the actions of the assistant coach.
On the UR bench T, it was not the ref right in front of the bench or the one along the baseline making the call. It was the furthest ref from the bench coming from the opposite side of the floor with the T.
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  #114  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
On the UR bench T, it was not the ref right in front of the bench or the one along the baseline making the call. It was the furthest ref from the bench coming from the opposite side of the floor with the T.
It was James Breeding who was the baseline official that had just called it Dayton ball and the assistant/staff member that got the T was all the way down the bench even past the baseline.
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  #115  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
So the pass Obi made to himself for the #1 Sportscenter play was what? A pass to himself, a travel, or a legal basketball play?
A 'tip' is not a 'pass' so it's legal.

C'mon cj, everyone knows that!!! Where's Mike Hartsock and grandma Thelma when you need them??
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  #116  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
So the pass Obi made to himself for the #1 Sportscenter play was what? A pass to himself, a travel, or a legal basketball play?
I know the argument will be made that he did not have control of the ball when he caught the pass, thus no whistle. However from my vantage point and from watching the replays, Obi had full control and as the defender cuts in front of him "passes" the ball ahead so as to not get called for traveling, even though I think by that time Obi had already traveled.

Thankfully Obi was ahead of who should have been the lead official, thus a missed call the official could not see correctly as most of the time I think this would have and should have been a Flyer turnover instead of Sportscenter #1 play of the night.
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  #117  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
By chance, is your last name Hartsock? or Hurley??
Regardless, you will address it as "Mr."
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  #118  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I know the argument will be made that he did not have control of the ball when he caught the pass, thus no whistle. However from my vantage point and from watching the replays, Obi had full control and as the defender cuts in front of him "passes" the ball ahead so as to not get called for traveling, even though I think by that time Obi had already traveled.

Thankfully Obi was ahead of who should have been the lead official, thus a missed call the official could not see correctly as most of the time I think this would have and should have been a Flyer turnover instead of Sportscenter #1 play of the night.
If he wasn't whistled for traveling, which I really can't tell on the replay(s), then what's the violation? Obi hadn't dribbled yet, so a "pass to himself" is nothing more than him initiating his dribble.
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  #119  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:21 PM
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I have to admit, watching on TV, I commented to my wife that the officiating was pretty good.
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  #120  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I have to admit, watching on TV, I commented to my wife that the officiating was pretty good.
Oh good lord...errr, I mean good Rollo. You came to the wrong place to make that golden pronouncement! Lock your doors, close your blinds, hide your children and send me your banking username and password before you kiss your rear-end good bye!

I’ll take it from there.
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  #121  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71 View Post
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Just helping you clarify things.
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  #122  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
A 'tip' is not a 'pass' so it's legal.

C'mon cj, everyone knows that!!! Where's Mike Hartsock and grandma Thelma when you need them??
No reason to bring my Mom into this thread! Grandma Thelma like all the T's she is into conflict!

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  #123  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I have to admit, watching on TV, I commented to my wife that the officiating was pretty good.

What did rollo give you to say this?
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  #124  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:38 PM
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I'm going to agree that the refs were way too involved. First, when everything is hot, nothing is hot, right? So, when you pass out T's in the same manner candy goes on sale after Trick or Treat, what's the point? I found that to be absurd.

The second half was literally so bad that neither team had much, if any, real opportunity to maintain any pace or get on a roll. I'm not saying it was a lopsided job, but I am, and always have been a fan of letting a game happen to a large degree - both as a player and a fan. I've always been a very aggressive defender, as well as a PG. I don't like to play in games where every last "hand check" is called. It happens, and I don't believe a foul should be called unless the contact legitimately affects my movement and ability to dribble or move properly. A pinky grazing my elbow as I've pushed the ball towards the ground in no was altered anything, and thus, is what I consider a ticky tack, unnecessary foul. There were a ton of those kinds of calls last night. It was painful for me to watch the 2nd half, and I know from plenty of experience how miserable it is to play in those kinds of games. I felt bad for both teams, honestly.

My guess? Either:

- the A10 is trying to slow our games so we don't destroy potential "dance" teams and hurt their odds.
- they have some strange fear of, and inability to cope with the energy the arena has this year.
- The VCU game was allowed to go too far, and it came with some kind of serious meeting with the A10's ref committee and they're going too far.

All I know is the entire arena was way different in the second half as the refs got more involved, and to a very large degree, the game just stayed status quo after the half.

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  #125  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:00 PM
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I normally read every thread/post related to MBB but after traveling back home after the game last night, I’m trying to play a little UDP catch-up. I read the thread title and a couple of posts. I think this one I can save some time by ignoring.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:18 PM
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I haven’t felt this loved around here since the Scott and Robison were given the keys to the campus with the blessings of .... ohhhh, never mind.

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Old 02-12-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
. All I know is the entire arena was way different in the second half as the refs got more involved, and to a very large degree, the game just stayed status quo after the half.
Agree on the 2nd half status quo. Although several great Flyer moments, pretty “meh” with both teams each scoring 32.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:21 PM
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The game became unbearable to watch. I told my wife that since she wasn’t feeling well we could leave any time after the under 8 TO so we bugged out just before the under 4 TO.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I normally read every thread/post related to MBB but after traveling back home after the game last night, I’m trying to play a little UDP catch-up. I read the thread title and a couple of posts. I think this one I can save some time by ignoring.
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Too late if you got this far in the thread.

Here's a Nj cliff notes ... don't read anything posted by ..... need I spell it out for U?!
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I have to admit, watching on TV, I commented to my wife that the officiating was pretty good.
This is just such a sick comment ....

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Old 02-12-2020, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I haven’t felt this loved around here since the Scott and Robison were given the keys to the campus with the blessings of .... ohhhh, never mind.

King Rollo the Romantic...OUT!
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Rollo that's not love you feel. ... from the Crimson Tide movie .that funny sensation you feel in your pants is a boot up your arse!
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  #132  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:33 PM
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Having seen both St. Louis games in person, I thought those games were more likely to get out of hand. Granted I did hear the players talking and chatter. There might have been more talking during the Rams game, but the violence except for the one play on the floor was much much less.

I believe there were multiple traveling calls missed during the game, not just one play. It did not seem to be a point of emphasis for that crew.


I think refs can calm teams down better without using the T. That was my biggest problem. I thought both teams played defense with their hands instead of their feet and thus the numerous calls. There were a number of calls that fans yelled “Let them play” that clearly were fouls.

UD needs to clean up some of their defense. Saying that they still blew the Rams away. Like coach always insists, there is room to get better.

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  #133  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:37 PM
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Last night's officiating was a disaster. Not at all a disruption to the game flow if you are used to 50 fouls being called.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
TV announcers? Is that the best you got? What’s next???? Mike Hartsock and John Bedell’s uneducated opinions?? Ugh!!
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Well, they at least knew the actual components of the rule and applied them correctly. Just saying.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:39 PM
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Back in the late 90's when I was a high school official there was a young brash official who gave Dunbar 7 T's in one game there were a lot of comments about that, he might not have done city league games for awhile after that, was that you Rollo?
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  #136  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, I thought there were 3 questionable calls yesterday.

2) Clutcher's 3-point play when he drove the lane, split 2 defenders and made the lay-up...'tweet'... 'and 1" was a make up call. No contact there.

Other than that, the officials get 9-out-of-of 10 golden whistles for their efforts!
I'm pretty sure there was only one of these and watching the replay he got a hatchet to the head and the arm. Not sure what you weren't looking at but this was actually a valid and 1.
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  #137  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:24 AM
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Any contact you're referring to (that I didn't see, even on replays) would have occurred on the floor...once he split the defenders it was a clear path. So if the hatchet had been called, it would have been before the shot...so no 'and 1'.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:28 AM
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or I could ask them to stop being 'poopyheads'

And because I'm a 'pleaser', I'd like all my minions and arm-chair officials to know that I'm reffing 6 games this weekend, and have decided that I'm only going to call every-other foul for all the games. From the sounds of things around here that should get me a standing 'O' on the way out the door AND some good street cred on UDPride!

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Old 02-14-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
And because I'm a 'pleaser', I'd like all my minions and arm-chair officials to know that I'm reffing 6 games this weekend, and have decided that I'm only going to call every-other foul for all the games.
So your calling twice as many fouls as typically gets called at the lower levels
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  #140  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:25 AM
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Don’t be a poopyhead!
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:03 AM
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James Breeding

is hereby awarded the Joey "Stinko" DeMayo award for the worst officiated game in the Atlantic 10 this year. Breeding thinks 13,400 fans paid to watch him make a fool of himself.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:20 AM
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How many of you have had the "pleasure" of seeing Rollo ref? I venture to say none of you, or you wouldn't waste your time arguing with him. He is who he appears to be on this message board - a legend in his own mind.
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  #143  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
How many of you have had the "pleasure" of seeing Rollo ref? I venture to say none of you, or you wouldn't waste your time arguing with him. He is who he appears to be on this message board - a legend in his own mind.
I am typically the first one to give Rollo crap on this board anytime and everytime the opportunity comes up, which is often!

I will also be the first to give him credit when it is deserved. I saw Rollo ref a few summer league high school games at UD, I think we crossed paths a few times at the Kingdom for youth leagues, and more importantly witnessed a few high school games he was refereeing as well. I have to say of all the officials I ran across over the years he was very near the top in terms of hustle on the court (you would be amazed how some do not) so that he was in the right position to make the right call. Every game I saw he did well and was by far one of the best officials we had. Calling the game fairly, without wanting to be the center of attention. He was there for the kids, and the love of the game, not the pocket change the officials are paid.

His storys about the way parents and coaches act are 100% spot on, and I have no doubt he handles in the most professional manner possible. I coached Dayton Metro for 7 years, AAU for 7 years, and was a very active board member and ran a local youth league for a few years, so I am not exaggerating when I say I have been at hundreds of games with dozens of officials. Youth sports need more Rollos.

Now I need to go vomit, honesty does not always taste good when discussing the king.

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  #144  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:38 AM
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Sarge = confused...I reffed his daughter’s game at M’burg 3 years ago.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Youth sports need more Rollos.

Now I need to go vomit, honesty does not always taste good when discussing the king.
I agree that youth sports need more people supporting them - even Rollo. Wasn't trying to down grade his commitment, just saying he is who is appears to be, it is not an act for your pleasure.

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Me = Trump
Clayton = Hannity!
Sarge = confused...I reffed his daughter’s game at M’burg 3 years ago.
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Funny comparisons and Trump is probably a good example for you to compare yourself to. You are always arrogant and even when you are correct you say so many stupid things to have to many people take you seriously.

As far as being confused, trust me I am not. For the record, I have seen you ref many times, not just the one game you are trying to reference. It was not my daughters team (She played for Springboro, who were playing at Beavercreek) that had the issue with you as we had the game well in control.

But Clayton is correct in the fact that we should all be appreciative of those that help keep youth sport going as there are so many life lessons learned during competition. For that I do thank you.

But I still say you are exactly as you appear. A Legend........
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:57 PM
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I admittedly take myself more seriously on the court than I do around here.

Or should I have just kept that comment to myself??
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
How many of you have had the "pleasure" of seeing Rollo ref? I venture to say none of you, or you wouldn't waste your time arguing with him. He is who he appears to be on this message board - a legend in his own mind.
I have had Rollo on up and down the court in a couple of my games. Did a great job.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I admittedly take myself more seriously on the court than I do around here.

Or should I have just kept that comment to myself??
I will say that the best refs I have had the pleasure to witness took themselves very seriously on the court. Not the clowns, not the guys trying to put on a show.

And I'll give you an example that is very relevant to this thread. I was playing in a high school game and it was getting out of control a bit. I complained a bit too loudly about a foul. The ref stopped play, informed me that he was on his way to talk to my coach about me, and that it would behoove me to follow. He approached my coach, head down, hands behind his back, and stood very close to the coach to he was not overheard by anyone. He informed him that the next word said to him by me, good or bad, would result in my listening to the rest of the game from the locker room with absolutely zero additional warnings. Do with that whatever you want, it's your call coach. No technical, no running across the court with arms waving like the jagoffs did against URI (which I fully deserved). It was all very calm and rational.

And I STFU for the rest of that game.

He took his role very seriously, and I always respected that ref, both before and after that incident. It requires a certain attitude to take control of an emotional situation and if you're a p***y, you're a bad ref.

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Old 02-15-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Any contact you're referring to (that I didn't see, even on replays) would have occurred on the floor...once he split the defenders it was a clear path. So if the hatchet had been called, it would have been before the shot...so no 'and 1'.
Just to prolong this most crucial discussion, watch it again - they show a replay from behind the basket and both URI defenders hit JC in the head as he’s letting the ball go. I hate the phantom anticipated and 1 call as much as the 3 point stick my leg out flop that should get a T warning too but this is 1 call your heroes got right.
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Old 02-15-2020, 02:48 PM
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No mistaking this UMass game for the best officiated of the year. I counted 9 really bad calls. Fortunately, they did call em both ways.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
No mistaking this UMass game for the best officiated of the year. I counted 9 really bad calls. Fortunately, they did call em both ways.
The foul on RM after he was pushed completely under the basket yet still maintained his box out was textbook bad. Maybe our historical lack of boxing out caused it to look like a foul to the ref.
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rollo (02-15-2020)
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
The foul on RM after he was pushed completely under the basket yet still maintained his box out was textbook bad. Maybe our historical lack of boxing out caused it to look like a foul to the ref.
naw, to me this is just something you see constantly from basketball officials only more blatant. This is an official that was looking for anything to keep the home crowd in the game. To me this could only be called by an official looking for a reason to keep the game from being over. A missed FT, with a perfect box out and a foul called on the man with the box out. Maybe if it wasn't a FT, it would've looked less ridiculous, but what the heck else can you do to secure a missed FT rebound?
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cobra8u (02-16-2020)
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:11 PM
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I watched the replay of the Jordy call and i think it was the right call. Jordy cleared out 5ne opponent before he was wrestled to the ground. The refs calls the first foul.

Here is my problem. In a similar play in St Louis, French throws Ryan to the ground and our resident refs can do no wrong rationalizes that Ryan was off balance and deserves to be thrown to the court. Using that same approach, Jordy should not have been whistled for his foul.

When we tolerate rough play and rationalize it, college basketball resembles the NFL instead of basketball. That is not good for the game.

And high school and CYO is not nearly over the top physical.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:07 PM
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Gazoo, I understand what you’re saying but I’d kill my varsity partner if he did what you said in a game I was working. In grade school that’s typical, and I did the same thing this morning in a 5th grade game, but in HS, that type of officiating only puts your partners in awkward positions if (and when) the opponent pulls the same behavior and now your partner HAS to do EXACTLY what you should never do...not call a violation...especially a deserved T!
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