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  #1  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:50 PM
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That was the BEST OFFICIATED GAME OF THE YEAR!

You novices and Y-league all-stars probably don't understand or believe me, but anyone who knows anything about game management and rules and what was at stake in the game knows that the refs tonite had no choice but to call it tight. And with each peep from Trey or shove from URI, etc...the refs had to call it tighter.

That game was one non-call away from turning into a Royale Rumble, and theres' only 1 way to stop that situation...and that's to stop play over and over and over until the players get in line. Which they didn't.

So anyone who wants to blame the refs for all the fouls needs to, instead, look at the head coaches who couldn't get control of their own players and ask 'if the coaches couldn't control their own players, who else should?'.

Great win by the Flyers.
Great ESPN Top 10 plays by Obi and Chatman.
Great officiating by an obviously frustrated but focused crew of refs!

Go Flyers!
My Team!!

King Rollo the Proud...OUT!
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:03 PM
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It really got chippy and I believe RI was pushing for that kind of crap to slow the clock down and get Fats back in. He was gone for a 1/2 hour but only missed maybe 4 minutes of game clock.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:05 PM
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Other than the missed travel where AG got the T, most of our fouls were legit. In fact, if we don't commit so many silly fouls, we likely chop off 20-30%.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
It really got chippy and I believe RI was pushing for that kind of crap to slow the clock down and get Fats back in. He was gone for a 1/2 hour but only missed maybe 4 minutes of game clock.
Agee. They also called a time out in there.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:16 PM
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Best officiating game of the Year? Rollo, take a deep breadth...
It was good, fair, in control...but of the Year? Of the entire year?

Last edited by Donniex3Era; 02-11-2020 at 11:18 PM..
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:18 PM
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I knew the refs were slacking off when we went for a five minute stretch without a double technical.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:20 PM
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I understand perfectly. I understand that you don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:22 PM
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I'll accept Rollo's superior knowledge on that assertion- what I respected from this crew was their even handedness. Both teams received about the equal amount of tough love, the result was not impacted, just the behavior. I'll take that any day.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:32 PM
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Could you argue that calling 7 technicals is a sign that you have nothing under control?

They were equally bad for both teams to the point that the coaches couldn’t contain their anger and then it translated to the players.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:32 PM
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I agree. I only saw one blown call, the travel. The rest, and all the fouls, were deserved. Could not believe Grant did not call a timeout, and tell his team to cut the crap, but how do you slow down a freight train at full speed that is blowing out the other team?
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:36 PM
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Considering it's only February calling it the best-officiated game of the year may be slightly hyperbolic, but maybe it will be--in 10 months.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:40 PM
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This was not the BEST OFFICIATED GAME OF THE YEAR. Not by long shot. And not by a layup either.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:45 PM
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So letting a player roll around on the ground with the ball is calling it tight? Like bedell said on the radio after the game, this game was too big for the officiating crew.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:52 PM
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I thought the refs did a good job, I have zero complaints.

Edit: well, ok, maybe a few bad calls here and there, but bad calls happen in every college basketball game that I have ever watched in my entire life, and there were bad calls against both teams, and the refs had some makeup calls for both teams to even things out, again, makeup calls happen in every game that I have ever watched in my entire life...but overall, imo, the game was called evenly and fairly for both teams.

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Old 02-12-2020, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
So letting a player roll around on the ground with the ball is calling it tight? Like bedell said on the radio after the game, this game was too big for the officiating crew.
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Funny thing is that was a very experienced officiating crew. The 7 T's didn't surprise me because if you look back at some of my posts over the last few years I've said multiple times that James Breeding officiates game with a very angry disposition.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
That was the BEST OFFICIATED GAME OF THE YEAR!

If you like watching officials.
I'd rather watch basketball.

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Old 02-12-2020, 12:42 AM
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That's the problem...they didn't control it from the tip.

Can we start a poll...

Would Rollo have missed the travel call?
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
That's the problem...they didn't control it from the tip.

Can we start a poll...

Would Rollo have missed the travel call?
Which one? There were several?

I think the refs could have set the tone better before whistling a lot of Ts. The seemed to have rabbit ears when the called the T on the Rhode Island bench.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:52 AM
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The players on both teams set the stage.
They knew game was being called tight.....ADJUST
The worst scenario?
Crutcher goes to locker room with bad leg.
Chatman has four fouls
We are up 23
We need Chapman in the game.....AND HE FOULS OUT

What I hate about all the ref bashing is when it becomes ridiculous.
On the post game show from Flanagans Keith Walakowski said'
"Well, maybe the refs had family in the stands or since it was on national TV they
wanted to have their names mentioned".
That's very unprofessional on Keith's part and is just what the "hate the refs" fanatics want to hear.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Which one? There were several?

I think the refs could have set the tone better before whistling a lot of Ts. The seemed to have rabbit ears when the called the T on the Rhode Island bench.
Before the one obvious travel when the Rhode Island player rolled over with the ball Fatts Russell left his feet and went up and down before he passed the ball which is also a travel call all three officials missed.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Which one? There were several?

I think the refs could have set the tone better before whistling a lot of Ts. The seemed to have rabbit ears when the called the T on the Rhode Island bench.
Stay away from the Ts in an emotional game...you hit them with personals and they go to the bench. That shuts it down quick when guys are on the pine.

Luigi...who appeared to be the crew chief hasn't done a good job on our court in the past.

They hit both benches with T's...there is no way in hell the benches earned those when the officials that called them were a mile from the pine and were being addressed by players when the T's were called. RI's' T at the end of the first half. The players were barking and the bench got it. WTF? If you're serious about controlling it, hit the dude complaining to your face and not the bench.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
On the post game show from Flanagans Keith Walakowski said'
"Well, maybe the refs had family in the stands or since it was on national TV they
wanted to have their names mentioned".
That's very unprofessional on Keith's part and is just what the "hate the refs" fanatics want to hear.
That just shows how emotional this game is/was for fans and players.

It's not a "hate the refs". They were all over the place. Be consistent and firm. Understand the stage at the tip.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:00 AM
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I am at home watching the game back to confirm or dispel my opinions.

The foul on 10 on Obi's behind the back dribble. 10 got robbed. I am not taking sides, simply stating it was bad on both ends.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Which one? There were several?

I think the refs could have set the tone better before whistling a lot of Ts. The seemed to have rabbit ears when the called the T on the Rhode Island bench.
I'll call BS on this. The kid in the suite at the end of the Rhode Island bench got the "T". After the out of bounds ball to Dayton call he was 10' off the bench (Standing on the D in Dayton) acting like he had been shot. He will pay for that when the Coach sees the replay. That "T" was well deserved.

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Old 02-12-2020, 01:11 AM
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I'm sorry Rollo Mike Hartsock disagrees with you. He said the refs were awful on the news tonight
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I'm sorry Rollo Mike Hartsock disagrees with you. He said the refs were awful on the news tonight
Rollo would have given a better assessment if he had at least 3 beers.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Stay away from the Ts in an emotional game...you hit them with personals and they go to the bench. That shuts it down quick when guys are on the pine.

Luigi...who appeared to be the crew chief hasn't done a good job on our court in the past.

They hit both benches with T's...there is no way in hell the benches earned those when the officials that called them were a mile from the pine and were being addressed by players when the T's were called. RI's' T at the end of the first half. The players were barking and the bench got it. WTF? If you're serious about controlling it, hit the dude complaining to your face and not the bench.
Shocka you may want to go back and watch around the 45-50 sec left in the half again. Look at the end of the Rhody bench you can see the guy they called the "T" on. He was standing on the D B****in....he got what he ask for. Pretty clear and much deserved.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jpk4ud View Post
Shocka you may want to go back and watch around the 45-50 sec left in the half again. Look at the end of the Rhody bench you can see the guy they called the "T" on. He was standing on the D B****in....he got what he ask for. Pretty clear and much deserved.
I wear the glasses as much as anyone else. Dude came out to the D on the floor. Unless he mother F'd the refs ol' lady. Let it go.

Had he not whistled the guy no one would have noticed and it didn't impact the game either way other than lead us to talk about how much the officials were involved.

The best basketball games are the games where no one even notices them.

I'm sorry. There is emotion in this game. Call the game to the letter of the law on the floor and call it tight. Don't pull the trigger because of a player's mouth. Trey got hit on a double and did nothing but talk to the opponent telling him to knock it off and play.

Controlling the game means something different to me than it does to some others. Call every touch foul early. Call every hand check. Call holds. Don't bust T's because a guy talked unless it was vulgar beyond belief or totally out of line. Guy jumps off the bench to holler about a call in a high energy game...let it go...give the guys on the bench a look and be done with it. That dude holding a towel had no impact on the game and his 5 feet off the bench didn't hurt a thing other than make that official think he was controlling something that wasn't the problem.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I agree. I only saw one blown call, the travel.
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post

Would Rollo have missed the travel call?

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
Before the one obvious travel
What travel are you all talking about? The one before Grant got the 'T'? Two points...(1) sliding isn't traveling. Ever; (2) Grant got the T because he wanted Palming/Carrying called (at least that's what his body language said)...which didn't happen either. Palming/carrying involves the ball coming to a stop (hesitation) in the dribbler's hands. So you can have your hand under the ball while dribbling and NOT be carrying the ball.

Or was the travel the one before the Chatman roll-over?? Again, you can't travel without possession of the ball. So if the URI player is fighting for the ball but never had it in his control, he can't be traveling.



Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
If you like watching officials.
I'd rather watch basketball.
I'd rather not watch a fight. And it would have gotten there.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Stay away from the Ts in an emotional game...you hit them with personals and they go to the bench. That shuts it down quick when guys are on the pine.
Hit Trey with a foul and he has 4 more. Hit Trey with a T, and the next one is an ejection and suspension. All the T's were justified and necessary. Even Grant was giving Trey the business about his constant chirping and trying to get him to shut up. If Trey listens, he's fine. But he wouldn't even listen to his own coach. So what's a ref to do??? Wait until a punch is thrown? We already had the kicking incident? One thing leads to another...
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:19 AM
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Bedell and Hartsock? Winner, winner, chicken dinner (Lee's of course)

Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
Like bedell said on the radio after the game, this game was too big for the officiating crew.
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I'm sorry Rollo Mike Hartsock disagrees with you. He said the refs were awful on the news tonight
Your Honor, I rest my case.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Funny thing is that was a very experienced officiating crew. The 7 T's didn't surprise me because if you look back at some of my posts over the last few years I've said multiple times that James Breeding officiates game with a very angry disposition.
I made similar comments after the VCU game (when Breeding was also part of the officiating team). In that game, there was too much of a “let ‘em play” attitude from the stripes early, and then they spent @ the last 3/4 of the game trying to put the horses back in the barn, even with 2 officials who had worked last year’s Final Four. Last night was better at the start, but once our guys blew out to that 17-0 lead, Rhode Island turned up the intensity, and it was after that things started getting chippy, on both sides. And I didn’t even realize that the tall guy was Breeding, because I was more focused on Chiazza, the short guy. He seemed to be a little too excitable and demonstrative to serve as a calming arbiter in a game of this magnitude.

And as far as the “travel/no travel” that preceded the Dayton Bench technical is concerned, my issue wasn’t with the slide, but the rollover. I’d need to see the replay to confirm what I saw, but it appeared the URI player (Langevine?) slid on his front to gain possession of the ball, and then rolled over onto his back to be able to pass the ball to a teammate. It was the lack of a traveling call on the “roll” that upset me, because more often than not when I’ve seen a player roll with the ball, traveling has been called.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:27 AM
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*zebras

Rolling is traveling so the issue was either (a) he was bobbling the ball while rolling or (b) the roll was part of the slide.

From 205 it looked like a slide and no travel. But from the crowd's reaction, only 3 other people* in My Arena agreed with me.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:27 AM
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Rollo....

I know sliding isn't a travel. Rolling is. It was obvious live and even more obvious on the replay. That's an amateur hour call that was missed. Not even a bang bang charge call.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
What travel are you all talking about? The one before Grant got the 'T'? Two points...(1) sliding isn't traveling. Ever; (2) Grant got the T because he wanted Palming/Carrying called (at least that's what his body language said)...which didn't happen either. Palming/carrying involves the ball coming to a stop (hesitation) in the dribbler's hands. So you can have your hand under the ball while dribbling and NOT be carrying the ball.

Or was the travel the one before the Chatman roll-over?? Again, you can't travel without possession of the ball. So if the URI player is fighting for the ball but never had it in his control, he can't be traveling.





I'd rather not watch a fight. And it would have gotten there.
It's neither here nor there, but Grant didn't get the T, it was either Hertz or Farrell (whoever was sitting next to Solomon). And he never stood up, just sat there and made the "palming" motion with his hands. I repeat, he NEVER stood up. That, IN MY OPINION, should've been ignored, but Barney Fife in stripes wanted to show his authority early, knowing the game was already getting chippy. 7 technical probably could've been avoided had the lead official stopped the game, or taken the time during a stoppage, and pulled either captains or coaches together and let 'em know this **it ain't happenin' on their watch or we're going to see whose walk-ons are better FT shooters, which is nearly came down to.

I get your black/white striped glasses Rollo, but by any measure the officials could've handled that game better.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
...Luigi...who appeared to be the crew chief...hasn't done a good job on our court in the past...
If you’re referring to Chiazza, he’s the one with whom I had the biggest problem. His demeanor reminded me of Cuba Gooding Jr.’s character in the movie Rat Race, where they parodied a botched NFL coin flip, and the referee (Gooding) went berserk. Not that Chiazza “went berserk”, but his presence certainly didn’t seem to be a calming one, in a game where cooler heads were needed.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:34 AM
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FWIW, saying "please" doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Radar View Post
I get your black/white striped glasses Rollo, but by any measure the officials could've handled that game better.
I'm listening...how would you have handled it 'better'?
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:39 AM
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For starters (I'll repeat it from my previous post):

7 technical probably could've been avoided had the lead official stopped the game, or taken the time during a stoppage, and pulled either captains or coaches together and let 'em know this **it ain't happenin' on their watch or we're going to see whose walk-ons are better FT shooters, which it nearly came down to.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Rolling is traveling so the issue was either (a) he was bobbling the ball while rolling or (b) the roll was part of the slide.

From 205 it looked like a slide and no travel. But from the crowd's reaction, only 3 other people* in My Arena agreed with me.
From 215, it looked like a slide, followed by a roll, and at the end of the roll the player had solid enough possession of the ball to make a relatively clean pass to a teammate. I’m going to need to see a replay to confirm the Red and Blue glasses didn’t cloud my eyesight.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I'm listening...how would you have handled it 'better'?
Gee what a novel idea!!!Those 3 clowns in stripe shirts should have gotten both coaches together at half-court and said "cut the s___t NOW!That's how you take control of a game..You don't constantly laugh and giggle like that little s__t wad black-haired ref did..Terrible terrible officiated game for both teams...I was 2nd row right behind replay girl and none of these guys had a clue what they were doing based on the amount of stuttering going on and blank looks on their faces..
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
For starters (I'll repeat it from my previous post):

7 technical probably could've been avoided had the lead official stopped the game, or taken the time during a stoppage, and pulled either captains or coaches together and let 'em know this **it ain't happenin' on their watch or we're going to see whose walk-ons are better FT shooters, which it nearly came down to.
For every action, there is an EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction.

If you think pleading with a coach or player to clean it up is and equal and opposite reaction to a kick, you're nuts. For the record, that approach doesn't work in 3rd grade...or Jr High...or HS...or college.

Two weeks ago I tossed a 2nd grade assistant boys coach after repeated requests to his head coach to get control of his bench. A month earlier I tossed a 6th grade boy for punching an opponent in the mouth after both collided and fell...and this was after repeated requests to back off.

In theory, you may think what you propose works. But experience at every level proves it doesn't!

URI was pressing full-court with 30 seconds to go! WTF do you think that means?? To me, they're making a statement that they will never go away, and will never quit fighting/competing. Ever. That game was over with 10 min left and URI ignored the score and kept fighting. What do you think they were thinking/doing when before that?? Sharing Instagrams??

FWIW, I royally hope the NCAA sends the same officiating crew to URI for the rematch.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I'm listening...how would you have handled it 'better'?
Rollo, most times I agree with you; part of me thinks all of these posts on this thread are tongue in cheek; but whenever i see a guy scrambling and diving on a loose ball....and he slides about 10 feet (my estimations from on court 3 point lines, etc...)- and when I see that said player actually roll after sliding....even my 92 year old mom can call that a travel.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:56 AM
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And also, if you meant to rile us all up, it worked.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:03 AM
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Wink

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
And also, if you meant to rile us all up, it worked.
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As evidenced by his choice of thread title maybe?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:11 AM
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FWIW, I thought there were 3 questionable calls yesterday.

1) The blocking foul on URI early in the 2nd half when Obi made a behind the back move and the ball went out-of-bounds was BS. the official did a poor job of selling the call so I think even he knew that what he anticipated didn't happen.

2) Clutcher's 3-point play when he drove the lane, split 2 defenders and made the lay-up...'tweet'... 'and 1" was a make up call. No contact there.

3) Late 1st half, a URI player drove thru the lane and stopped...you could hear 3 squeaks from his shoes scraping the floor so it sounded like a travel but I couldn't see if his pivot foot moved...it sure looked and sounded like a travel, but no whistle so I'll assume his pivot stayed still.

Other than that, the officials get 9-out-of-of 10 golden whistles for their efforts!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
As evidenced by his choice of thread title maybe?
Ok yeah; my real opinion: Those refs were POS and Rollo knows it!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:14 AM
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Best Reffed Game????? All those technicals are not evidence of a best reffed game but rather are evidence of a game that got away from the refs early and the refs spent the rest of the game trying to catch up. And they could not catch up by strictly calling the game, so they interjected themselves into the play of the game more than officials are expected to do.

Call the game tight early, pay attention to everything happening on the court ie do not miss obvious calls and there would be no need for the technicals.

Best reffed game of the year! Not by a long shot. Instead this game showed the Refs at their poorest. The only good thing to say is that the Refs did not appear to be biased, only bad.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:17 AM
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Oldfan, so you don't think the coaches are to blame at all for their players behavior??

What else, sans more Technicals, can the refs do to control behavior?? Hand out chocolates??

Some of you need to think before you post. It's not that simple.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:17 AM
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Rollo, in all seriousness- what’s your opinion of the RI player doing his best imitation of the wham-o slip n slide? Major traveling, NBA type traveling or just obvious traveling?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:22 AM
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Did you see the call against UD where the ref tripped the player and called traveling on him?


NO! Neither did I, but Rollo would of ....... just sayin'
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I'm sorry Rollo Mike Hartsock disagrees with you. He said the refs were awful on the news tonight
Using MH as an expert witness goes to the core of the defendants case he is mentally insane!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:26 AM
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Shocka, based on this thread, I propose that you and all law enforcement officers stop handing out speeding tickets and start giving more verbal warnings. Going 60 in a 35 zone really isn't that bad, especially if the car has UD license plate frames...right?? Think about how much better and safer our roads and communities would be if you just used nice words instead of those nasty tickets!

Or maybe you can get some rookie cadets to stand on I-70 with big signs that say "Please drive safely"...but make sure they're smiling the whole time!!

Same with assaults and robbery! I mean, do rules really matter??
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Rollo, in all seriousness- what’s your opinion of the RI player doing his best imitation of the wham-o slip n slide? Major traveling, NBA type traveling or just obvious traveling?
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Sliding isn't illegal.

Longtime, what's your definition of 'traveling'? Because you obviously don't know its actual definition.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:29 AM
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Yeah- i missed the Hartsock opinion. That does conflict my previous opinion a bit. So let me ask Rollo this as a tiebreaker: Does your defense of all referees extend even to WWF and the obvious calls THEY miss? Because if it does,....
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:30 AM
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I've always thought the level of whining/critique (all about POV) of the refs was a bit over the top on this board.

Lol, but I couldn't help but notice that the ref thread has 4x as many posts as the game thoughts thread... for the same game.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Sliding isn't illegal.

Longtime, what's your definition of 'traveling'? Because you obviously don't know its actual definition.
Sliding 10 feet, rolling and playing patty cake with both feet on the arena floor...in my opinion does.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Sliding 10 feet, rolling and playing patty cake with both feet on the arena floor...in my opinion does.
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Then you're better off staying in the stands because you can slide 90 feet and still not 'travel'.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Shocka, based on this thread, I propose that you and all law enforcement officers stop handing out speeding tickets and start giving more verbal warnings. Going 60 in a 35 zone really isn't that bad, especially if the car has UD license plate frames...right?? Think about how much better and safer our roads and communities would be if you just used nice words instead of those nasty tickets!

Or maybe you can get some rookie cadets to stand on I-70 with big signs that say "Please drive safely"...but make sure they're smiling the whole time!!

Same with assaults and robbery! I mean, do rules really matter??
I knew you'd come around...
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Oldfan, so you don't think the coaches are to blame at all for their players behavior??

What else, sans more Technicals, can the refs do to control behavior?? Hand out chocolates??

Some of you need to think before you post. It's not that simple.
I think if those chocolates were laced with hemp products everyone could be mellow yellow dudes!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Shocka, based on this thread, I propose that you and all law enforcement officers stop handing out speeding tickets and start giving more verbal warnings. Going 60 in a 35 zone really isn't that bad, especially if the car has UD license plate frames...right?? Think about how much better and safer our roads and communities would be if you just used nice words instead of those nasty tickets!

Or maybe you can get some rookie cadets to stand on I-70 with big signs that say "Please drive safely"...but make sure they're smiling the whole time!!

Same with assaults and robbery! I mean, do rules really matter??
That comparison isn't even in the same stratosphere and you know it...Only so much more room before your rump hits the corner of the walls.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Then you're better off staying in the stands because you can slide 90 feet and still not 'travel'.
Slide 90’ feet while sliding and rolling and alternating slapping both feet on the floor (for traction when sliding), then rolling again at the end? Ok, I’ll stay in the stands with the other 13,400 loudly booing fans. I know NBA players/refs wouldn’t see any problem with that play when you’re routinely seeing 4-5 steps on a nightly basis. You’re right, my bad, I don’t know anything at all - i mean...why even bother dribbling anymore?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:43 AM
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"Freedom of movement," which was a "point of emphasis" is dead in college basketball.
My evidence:
OSU at Michigan
Any SLU game
Any time that an offensive player gets called for a foul away from the ball when they are trying to get away from being held. The classic case of the retaliation act being called rather than the initial foul.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:44 AM
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It was only a matter of time before someone cracked. Longtime, congrats for making my point that 13,400 people (-1) are often clueless.

9-1-1!!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
"Freedom of movement," which was a "point of emphasis" is dead in college basketball.
My evidence:
OSU at Michigan
Any SLU game
Any time that an offensive player gets called for a foul away from the ball when they are trying to get away from being held. The classic case of the retaliation act being called rather than the initial foul.
You’re way too reasonable to be a UD fan. I’m afraid you may have to go to a Red and Blue Re-Education camp.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It was only a matter of time before someone cracked. Longtime, congrats for making my point that 13,400 people (-1) are often clueless.

9-1-1!!!
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Rollo, you will not shame me; the only way I side with you on this particular call is if AOC jumps in and sides with me and the other 13,398
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Rollo, you will not shame me; the only way I side with you on this particular call is if AOC jumps in and sides with me and the other 13,398
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If AOC joins in the fracas, I'll gladly join in and make it an even 13,400!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, I thought there were 3 questionable calls yesterday.

1) The blocking foul on URI early in the 2nd half when Obi made a behind the back move and the ball went out-of-bounds was BS. the official did a poor job of selling the call so I think even he knew that what he anticipated didn't happen.

2) Clutcher's 3-point play when he drove the lane, split 2 defenders and made the lay-up...'tweet'... 'and 1" was a make up call. No contact there.

3) Late 1st half, a URI player drove thru the lane and stopped...you could hear 3 squeaks from his shoes scraping the floor so it sounded like a travel but I couldn't see if his pivot foot moved...it sure looked and sounded like a travel, but no whistle so I'll assume his pivot stayed still.

Other than that, the officials get 9-out-of-of 10 golden whistles for their efforts!
They also missed the travel (or two or three) on the Langevine spin move early in the game where he put in a sweet reverse layup.

Refs miss calls every game so I'm not that concerned but when it is obvious calls they miss, that's when you have to start questioning if they are having a good game or not. They did seem to miss at least a few obvious ones yesterday.

As for the 7 T's they all seem to be deserved so I don't have a problem with that either. And just because the UD assistant didn't stand up (as someone else said) doesn't mean he didn't deserve the T. Plus none of us have any idea what was said to warrant the two bench fouls that each team got.

Bottom line is James Breeding has a reputation for officiating games in an angry manner and both coaches need to know this and make sure their players and other coaches also know this. As a coach you need to know a little about all of your officials and if you know one calls it close to the vest and takes no **** from anyone then your team better know it too.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:10 AM
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A.R. 113. Is it traveling when a player:
(1) Falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot; or
(2) Falls to the playing court on both knees while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot; or
(3) Gains control of the ball while on the playing court and then, because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet?
RULING: (1) and (2) Yes, when the pivot foot is not maintained because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the playing floor.
(3) No. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a timeout. Once the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he or she may not roll over.

Key words: HE OR SHE MAY NOT ROLL OVER.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:18 AM
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Well- that covers at least two main gender identities but there’s about 10 others nowadays so....
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
You’re way too reasonable to be a UD fan. I’m afraid you may have to go to a Red and Blue Re-Education camp.
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OHSAA certified many years ago.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:21 AM
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Key words you missed: “gains control of the ball”. Which means you can legally roll if you don’t have control of the ball...which is often the case when large, sweaty men are diving, bouncing, reaching and fighting for a ball.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:22 AM
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OHSAA certified many years ago.
We’re all Certifiable. That’s a fact!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:25 AM
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Yep, you left your pink slip on the table yesterday!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Key words you missed: “gains control of the ball”. Which means you can legally roll if you don’t have control of the ball...which is often the case when large, sweaty men are diving, bouncing, reaching and fighting for a ball.
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He had the ball secured in both hands. It was played over in slow motion on TV. The announcers even said "control, slide roll - yep, that's a travel". They missed it. It's ok, you can admit it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, I thought there were 3 questionable calls yesterday.

1) The blocking foul on URI early in the 2nd half when Obi made a behind the back move and the ball went out-of-bounds was BS. the official did a poor job of selling the call so I think even he knew that what he anticipated didn't happen.

2) Clutcher's 3-point play when he drove the lane, split 2 defenders and made the lay-up...'tweet'... 'and 1" was a make up call. No contact there.

3) Late 1st half, a URI player drove thru the lane and stopped...you could hear 3 squeaks from his shoes scraping the floor so it sounded like a travel but I couldn't see if his pivot foot moved...it sure looked and sounded like a travel, but no whistle so I'll assume his pivot stayed still.

Other than that, the officials get 9-out-of-of 10 golden whistles for their efforts!
I don't disagree that the officiating was reasonable yesterday but one foul in particular really made me mad and I am curious as to what you think of the play.

I believe it was the middle of the first half, Jordy was in the game and we had the ball. Jordy textbook sealed off his defender for an entry lob pass and he was called for an offensive foul for his first foul. In what world is that a foul or did I miss something there?

I feel like Jordy gets his share of terrible calls against him simply because he can move anyone with his hips (not just last night). He definitely reaches more than he should on defense but on the offensive side he gets a ton of bad offensive fouls called against them - or certainly seems to for the minutes he plays.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:33 AM
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TV announcers? Is that the best you got? What’s next???? Mike Hartsock and John Bedell’s uneducated opinions?? Ugh!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:36 AM
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Jordy extended his arm, which is legal unless you ‘displace’ your defender. You can hold them back - to a degree - but cannot move them. From 205 I clearly saw him extend and displace his defender. Easy call from my angle.

Jordy’s biggest issue is his size. He’s huge and everything he does is obvious. It’s those 5’10” guards who get away with everything!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Jordy extended his arm, which is legal unless you ‘displace’ your defender. You can hold them back - to a degree - but cannot move them. From 205 I clearly saw him extend and displace his defender. Easy call from my angle.

Jordy’s biggest issue is his size. He’s huge and everything he does is obvious. It’s those 5’10” guards who get away with everything!
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I must have missed his arm extension. I guess it is a little easier to extend your arm when your arm is almost above shoulder height for most players hes up against! No doubt he gets called more because he is easily seen by the refs.

I thought he did a better job last night of trying to stay straight up on the defensive end but still has a bad habit of reaching in and swiping at balls he has no business of swiping at.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:49 AM
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IMO the refs lost control of the game and were handing out technicals like Bernie wants to hand out cash, in an effort to regain control. A better approach would have been to gather both coaches and have a conference on what was happening and what needed to be done.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sw368407 View Post
I must have missed his arm extension. I guess it is a little easier to extend your arm when your arm is almost above shoulder height for most players hes up against! No doubt he gets called more because he is easily seen by the refs.

I thought he did a better job last night of trying to stay straight up on the defensive end but still has a bad habit of reaching in and swiping at balls he has no business of swiping at.
It was actually as a shot was going up and he was turning to box out. I agree that it was a ticky tack call because you see way more than that on most box outs. I watched it in slow mo twice and really didn't see much of a foul there.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UD B8BEE View Post
A better approach would have been to gather both coaches and have a conference on what was happening and what needed to be done.
Been there. Done that. Doesn't work.

Neither coach, with the A10 #1 seed on the line, is going to allow an official to tell them how their team should play. They practiced all week to be rough, tough and physical and nothing - as we saw last night - was going to change that attitude. Nothing!

Why is this so hard to understand???
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:07 AM
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Just the fact that the most active thread after a great win is about officiating tells you all you need to know about the way the refs called the game.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:17 AM
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Or it says a lot about how little my minions know about basketball.

Here’s the question...to get control of the action, and after handing out 7 Ts and verbal warnings to each coach (which didn’t work) should the refs have called more fouls? Or less fouls?
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post

Two seeks ago I tossed a 2nd grade assistant boys coach after repeated requests to his head coach to get control of his bench..
And so goes the savage world of 2nd grade basketball. Hard to imagine the harsh treatment you’re receiving on their message board.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:24 AM
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Or it says a lot about how little my minions know about basketball.

Here’s the question...to get control of the action, and after handing out 7 Ts and verbal warnings to each coach (which didn’t work) should the refs have called more fouls? Or less fouls?
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Enough already about your peers/refs and their lack of knowledge, guts and sensibility. I imagine very few refs understand leadership and few would excel in high-level mgt. positions based on allowing a bunch of 18-20 year olds to hold "court" as they desire. As you say, it also shows how little the fans sometimes know..lol
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
Just the fact that the most active thread after a great win is about officiating tells you all you need to know about the way the refs called the game.
3 touch fouls called in the last minute of a 17 point blow out with mostly bench players in the game is all I need to know about that stellar crew
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Enough already about your peers/refs and their lack of knowledge, guts and sensibility. I imagine very few refs understand leadership and few would excel in high-level mgt. positions based on allowing a bunch of 18-20 year olds to hold "court" as they desire. As you say, it also shows how little the fans sometimes know..lol
By chance, is your last name Hartsock? or Hurley??
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
If you’re referring to Chiazza, he’s the one with whom I had the biggest problem. His demeanor reminded me of Cuba Gooding Jr.’s character in the movie Rat Race, where they parodied a botched NFL coin flip, and the referee (Gooding) went berserk. Not that Chiazza “went berserk”, but his presence certainly didn’t seem to be a calming one, in a game where cooler heads were needed.
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Tony's the worst. Here's a quote from my brother (a coach in the area) "He's flat out awful. He inserts himself into every d@mn game. I can't stand him."
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CJ2etc View Post
He had the ball secured in both hands. It was played over in slow motion on TV. The announcers even said "control, slide roll - yep, that's a travel"...
That was essentially what I saw from 215 last night. As he was rolling, he had control of the ball. Not during the slide necessarily, but during the roll.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Other than the missed travel where AG got the T, most of our fouls were legit. In fact, if we don't commit so many silly fouls, we likely chop off 20-30%.
The technical was not on Grant, but on one of his assistants.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:33 PM
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Refs went a bit over-the-top with their attempted "control" of the game, IMO. They stacked the deck against themselves with the crowd and players by making a few awful calls both ways. But an excessive referee "crack down" with terrible calls mixed in frustrates the coaches, players and the fans, working against the aim of the "crack-down" in the first place. At some point it just started to enrage everyone.

Last night, by the late 2nd half, I witnessed UD Arena fans actually heckling the refs for bad calls that were made against the opponent. That is a first for me in my 50 years of UD arena attendance. That is how bad it was.

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Old 02-12-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
The technical was not on Grant, but on one of his assistants.
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The assistant's behavior earns the Head Coach a Class B Technical...so it actually is on Grant. I know...tomato/tomahtoh…
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:10 PM
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Talking It's true!

This thread has proven the theory of many, including me:

The more time an official/referee/umpire has to take to explain/defend a call, the greater the likelihood they got the call wrong.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:13 PM
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Hey rollo, at one point in the game, UD was coming down the court on offense, and it looked like a URI assistant coach was on the court a couple of feet. If one of the UD players acts like they didn't know the coach was there and drifted into that lane and "purposely" ran into the coach, would there be a technical, and would it be on the UD player or the URI coach?
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:16 PM
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Or just throw the ball at him and if it touches him while he is on the court what is the penalty?
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:35 PM
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Technical in both cases. In fact, I’m many game situations where the head coach insists on stepping on the court during live action, I get a little wider and run on the sidelines in order to force him back to the coaching circle. After a couple near misses and Royal glares, they get the hint.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Think about how much better and safer our roads and communities would be if you just used nice words instead of those nasty tickets!

Or maybe you can get some rookie cadets to stand on I-70 with big signs that say "Please drive safely"...but make sure they're smiling the whole time!!

Same with assaults and robbery! I mean, do rules really matter??
You haven't paid attention to this profession over the last 20 years have you? Lol

You also haven't paid attention to the results of violent crime cases in this county either. Survey time!
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
You haven't paid attention to this profession over the last 20 years have you? Lol

You also haven't paid attention to the results of violent crime cases in this county either. Survey time!
Since when does someone on UDPride have to pay attention to trends, rules or anything else in order to be an expert??

Just because you're in law enforcement and I'm not doesn't mean you're right and I'm wrong!!

Just ask my 92-year old grandma!

Or Mike Hartsock!!

You know, the real experts...
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:10 PM
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1. Folks, asking srollo if he thinks that game was well officiated is a bit like asking Patton how he liked the war in the Pacific. "Explosions? Entire islands on fire?? MILLIONS DEAD?!?! THIS IS AMAZING." You know what rollo would have liked better than 7 technicals? 8. That's what.

2: rollo, you're way wrong, the guy had full control and it's not even a question, the multiple slow-mo and full speed replays made clear, it was never in doubt, just say you didn't have the best view from your seat and admit you're wrong.

3. Why has no one mentioned Trey's phantom foul with about 8 minutes to go on the inbounds play? He AT WORST casually pushed the guy's arm away from arm barring him. The defender didn't even react. The call was a total mystery to all involved.

4. There were many very bad calls. Fatts "ball fake" where replay showed his foot came off the ground? I realize he's only 5'10" but physics says he can't get his head up to 6'6" unless his foot leaves the ground. The 4 steps the guy took for the reverse layup? The makeup call in our favor for Crutcher? Obi dribbles around the back and somehow collects a phantom foul? We didn't get screwed by the refs, they were just awful.

5. As Shocka said, the best refs have very bad hearing. Let a coach mouth off, or even a player, let a guy swing a towel. That's not going to damage the game in any way, unless you're really embarrassed about all the missed calls and that's on you. Let the guy say his peace if it's over quickly and in the heat of the moment. The thing was, refs were coming from the other side of the floor to call T's. That only happens when you've got rabbit ears. All that does is **** guys off worse. That game was never out of hand. . . except complaining to the refs, and they earned it.

6. rollo just wants to hand out T's rather than call the coaches together. You know what 7 technicals accomplishes? Nothing the first 6 didn't already convey: nothing. So quit being a pu**y and just eject a guy if his behavior is so bad. But that's the thing, the behavior wasn't that bad. They just kept escalating the situation by calling more T's and terrible fouls (to show they had control of the game, which is counter-productive).

7. Do you know why out of the millions of games played from the ACC to the crappiest conference there are never 7 technicals in a game where there are no fights? Because there are better ways to handle it.

8. rollo, if the refs wanted to get control of the game maybe they should have called palming. The guy was dribbling, lifted the ball into the air, kept running with it, switched directions twice, and then dribbled again. (EDIT: OK that's an exaggeration.) Why are you in favor of T's, calling every non-foul to "send a message", etc., but not calling things every person in the arena including the opposing coach would not disagree with. . . you know, to get control of the game?

The refs wanted to be the show. Period. That's why rollo loved it.

Last edited by Gazoo; 02-12-2020 at 02:19 PM..
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Gazoo For This Totally Excellent Post:
CJ2etc (02-12-2020), Tony T 71 (02-12-2020)
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