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  #1  
Old 03-19-2017, 05:45 PM
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UD Arena Renovation

Has anyone heard when UD will release the plans for the arena renovations?
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2017, 10:51 PM
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Last I saw Neil Sullivan quoted, there is no time frame for releasing plans or starting construction. Taking time to do it right.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:13 PM
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I haven't been keeping up on this is anything supposed to happen this offseason?
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I haven't been keeping up on this is anything supposed to happen this offseason?
I was told the only thing this off season, is the announcement of the plans for what will happen in a future off season. He thought announcement will happen in April time period, but that was unofficial as well.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:15 AM
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I thought there was some initial prep work happening this offseason. Likely some of the infrastructure type work, moving things that need moved to accommodate future work/design.

I also heard April timeline for announcement of plans, but nothing concrete. Some people seem to have seen the plans and have been very impressed.

There was also a twitter rumor that plans havent been released yet because they changed their minds and are building a new arena on the fairgrounds land. I don't put any stock in that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:24 AM
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So they are for sure building a new UD Arena?
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Wallage View Post
I thought there was some initial prep work happening this offseason. Likely some of the infrastructure type work, moving things that need moved to accommodate future work/design.

.
You may be correct on infrastructure type things happening behind the scenes, the key of what I was told is as far as cosmetics and game day functioning, nothing will be different next season. Of course we were doing a few shots as the conversation took place. I will know more after next weekend as we will be with my good friend and insider again.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Sweets View Post
So they are for sure building a new UD Arena?
As of 2 or 3 weekends ago, not a new arena, just a major remodel and addition onto existing arena, very similar to the plan that was published and released a year or so ago as a concept drawing
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:46 AM
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From what I have heard, the costs of renovating the Arena again are much higher than originally thought. Because of this, a new Arena isn't totally out of the question yet. I have not heard this through anyone in the athletic department, just people who seem to be well connected. So take this with a grain of salt.

Last edited by m21eagle45; 03-20-2017 at 10:21 AM..
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Sweets View Post
So they are for sure building a new UD Arena?
If it's on twitter it must be true
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
As of 2 or 3 weekends ago, not a new arena, just a major remodel and addition onto existing arena, very similar to the plan that was published and released a year or so ago as a concept drawing
Does anyone have that plan/concept? (pic/link).. I must have missed that.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:15 PM
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I am very good at spending other people's money...

...in addition to the various issues with the arena that have been discussed on here - people flow maybe at the top of this list - I think the school is making a mistake if they (1) don't make TV camera location changes (similar to what CBS does for the tournament but with the correct court orientation), (2) don't address the facing of the luxury suites at the ends of the court, and (3) don't address that ridiculously large, ridiculously low function center scoreboard.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2017, 12:18 PM
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Here is the link from last year. If it turns out close to this design I'd be very happy.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...7ft0aSdCheHBI/
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:27 PM
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One thing I have not been able to understand about those drawings is: where are the 300 level seats? Are many of those seats being eliminated? Sitting in row D in the 300 level, I'm really interested in that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:36 PM
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I wish it looked more like an airplane hangar... or they played up the "Flyer" theme more... I'm sure you could get really creative if you wanted.

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  #16  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
One thing I have not been able to understand about those drawings is: where are the 300 level seats? Are many of those seats being eliminated? Sitting in row D in the 300 level, I'm really interested in that.
300 seats stay exactly the same. Only difference will be luxury suites constructed on the current concourse that divides the 200 and 300 levels. You'll no longer be able to walk from one end of the court to the other without being directed under the 300s.
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:44 PM
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I think the drawing is of street level and below. Best guess: the light blue shapes that come off the 200 level seats are new lounge areas. They will take the place of current concourse/food area on each side. 300/400s are over top of that and just not shown. Green is food/kitchens. Pinkish/orange are restrooms.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
300 seats stay exactly the same. Only difference will be luxury suites constructed on the current concourse that divides the 200 and 300 levels. You'll no longer be able to walk from one end of the court to the other without being directed under the 300s.
I have heard this same configuration as well. My understanding is that they are currently gauging the big money support before moving ahead. This may or may not affect the final numbers for the next seat license go around. Apparently a high percentage of respondents to the survey were willing to pay more for seats/lisences for arena upgrades. A deeper run in the tournament would have made the "ask" easier.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:38 PM
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In the times I have talked to Sullivan, I have never heard him or anyone else utter the words "new building". FWIW.

Any major reno would take two full seasons and UD would have to play through the dust and construction in the first season. All season ticket holders would have a financial burden in this. Everyone is going to have skin the game, even if its just a little for the cheaps in the 400s compared to the whales. Which is the way it should be. Folks can pull on the rope with different tension, but everyone has to at least have their hands on it.

Arena interior egress has always been a major concern. Its probably driving the bus after pipes and pumps and new copper wiring. It has always topped the list of most complaints.

Of course, if you didnt stand with 7 of your closest Flyer fans in a football huddle in the bottlenecked corners of the concourse talking about Aunt Maggie's new set of triplets for 20 minutes and forcing the rest of us to butter our collective hips to slide between you and the masonry walls to pass on by, we'd all be issuing fewer complaints.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
If it's on twitter it must be true
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Of course, if you didnt stand with 7 of your closest Flyer fans in a football huddle in the bottlenecked corners of the concourse talking about Aunt Maggie's new set of triplets for 20 minutes and forcing the rest of us to butter our collective hips to slide between you and the masonry walls to pass on by, we'd all be issuing fewer complaints.
I laughed out loud at this, only someone who has been to games and exited via the concourse would understand.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:50 PM
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:58 PM
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM
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Let the moaning begin

I'm not excited about a major renovation the UD Arena.

I was in the focus group at the arena and got a free soft drink that night.

Yes the vocal individuals in the group of 16 ALL said "we will pay what every you need". They clearly said ticket price is no object.

Beware what you wish for.

One bad basketball season and a decline in the economy ... and I'm out ... they will lose my current $5,000ish that I'm currently paying them yearly ... not including ticket prices.

Who will pick up my lost revenue? I will be happy and retired in FL ... I don't need UD tickets in the winter. Some one will need to step up to pay the UD mortgage.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:15 PM
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I haven't heard anything about seating capacity. Would the number of seats increase significantly?
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
I laughed out loud at this, only someone who has been to games and exited via the concourse would understand.
Yes, I've played Arena Concourse Human Pinball for a few decades myself.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
I haven't heard anything about seating capacity. Would the number of seats increase significantly?
From what I've heard seating capacity might decrease slightly.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
From what I've heard seating capacity might decrease slightly.
Why sped 100mil for reduced seating capacity. Reasons I heard for remodel or new arena is a min of 17500 seating to get first and second round games.

Who needs the facelift? Its worked all these years don't mess with it now unless you are prepared to go to 175k seats. Build a new one for 20k seats and you are sending a message you want to play with the big boys.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle View Post
I'm not excited about a major renovation the UD Arena.

I was in the focus group at the arena and got a free soft drink that night.

Yes the vocal individuals in the group of 16 ALL said "we will pay what every you need". They clearly said ticket price is no object.

Beware what you wish for.

One bad basketball season and a decline in the economy ... and I'm out ... they will lose my current $5,000ish that I'm currently paying them yearly ... not including ticket prices.

Who will pick up my lost revenue? I will be happy and retired in FL ... I don't need UD tickets in the winter. Some one will need to step up to pay the UD mortgage.
I can readily see your point. I too, am not excited about it if it means significant increases in my Lower Arena Tickets. I will be resigned to allowing someone else to get my seats if the price rises significantly. Hate to say it as I love going but a budget is a budget. Just as i used to go to several Reds Games - I haven't been there in several years. Sad, but I can only afford so much.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:10 PM
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I had a friend in the focus groups and he was the only one not willing to pay more
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post

Of course, if you didnt stand with 7 of your closest Flyer fans in a football huddle in the bottlenecked corners of the concourse talking about Aunt Maggie's new set of triplets for 20 minutes and forcing the rest of us to butter our collective hips to slide between you and the masonry walls to pass on by, we'd all be issuing fewer complaints.
I could not have said it better and never could have said it so well.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
I laughed out loud at this, only someone who has been to games and exited via the concourse would understand.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:36 PM
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What would be the point of renovating the arena and removing seating capacity?

Is the ROI on expanded club seating that great?
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
What would be the point of renovating the arena and removing seating capacity?

Is the ROI on expanded club seating that great?
Yes it is.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by runnerup View Post
Yes Cris nailed that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:12 PM
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There will be no new arena built. There was an article previously that the fairgrounds property is too small for a new arena.

After flow issues we need a new sound system. The current sound has no bass and sounds terrible. It's hard on your ears and hard to get pumped without the bass.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:34 PM
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How much seatingb ball park wise would we lose? Would the Nutter Center have to be a temporary vent?
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:24 AM
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Dont think capacity would be affected much. Suites/loges would go where the main interior concourse now exists, and in all likelihood the concourse/walkway b/t the 100s and 200s would go away and add additional seats added there b/c all egress could be accomplished with the larger 360 roundhouse tunneling behind the seating.

The 100/200 concourse is an oddity to have a walkway directly in front of seats. I use it to avoid the Aunt Maggie convention, but with a proper build-out, it would no longer be needed to manage traffic.

I think the Arena just passes the NCAA 1st/2nd Rd capacity minimum so UD would be conscious of this in any reno. I doubt capacity would change +/- 200 peeps.

I had a convo with someone sitting next to me at the NCAA First Four about where to possibly add additional seating. We decided you could extend the overhangs on both the Boesch and Loge sides down another 3-4 rows as end-zone seats. You'd just need some I-beams to reinforce the additional overhang. Being these would be premium seating, they would probably pay for themselves and then some over the life of the reno and help fund the other initiatives and give upper-arena patrons a chance to get into premium seating that is currently unavailable -- either by a direct move or lower arena ticket holders moving into these additional end zone premium seats and freeing up seats in the bowl.

I dont think you could get to 14,000 in the best of designs after the smoke clears, but who knows.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by udfanatic View Post
There will be no new arena built. There was an article previously that the fairgrounds property is too small for a new arena.

After flow issues we need a new sound system. The current sound has no bass and sounds terrible. It's hard on your ears and hard to get pumped without the bass.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
...in all likelihood the concourse/walkway b/t the 100s and 200s would go away and add additional seats added there b/c all egress could be accomplished with the larger 360 roundhouse tunneling behind the seating.
I don't understand how removing this will lead to additional seats? They would have to reslope that area wouldn't they? And that is not possible.

Seats can not be in front of other seats, at the same level, that would result in an obstructed view, with people staring at the backs of the heads of the people right in front of them. The entire arena is sloped/banked.

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Old 03-21-2017, 12:49 PM
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^^ Just take out part of the concrete. There is more than enough room and enough slope. Not cheap, but with the money those seats can generate over 20yrs, it would pay for itself several times over.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:17 PM
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Have been told there might be:
1. A concession area with bathrooms at the top of the 400s. With the back of the concession area (opposite the seats) being glassed/windowed in. There would be elevators to access.
2. Where the concrete cinderblock wedges is in both "endzones", will probably be Terrace Suites. There are rooms/offices in there now.
3. Club seats were the current concourse is. There may be only one "dining area" on just one side. I don't think there has been a final decision on that as of yet.
4. There will be a greater capacity. Don't know exactly what it ill be.

Finally my Editorial: For those complaining about the cost. Unfortunately, if you don't want to pay, someone else will. - I do not know how else to put it. And you know what, most that whine about it and threaten, will find a spot in their budget for it when push comes to shove.

The Flyers are slowly but consistently moving up the food chain of programs - the goal is to position the Flyers directly under the "blue bloods" college basketball. It takes money to do that. The Flyers are providing a wonderful product. People are willing to pay for this product. They are not out to gouge anyone. But I believe all those with seats will be asked to pay more. The payoff will be what will feel like a new Arena inside the Arena. All will be new and updated. If you want the highest level recruits, if you want to keep you high end coach - this is the cost.

I've been told that Archie has never asked for anything. But the Athletic Department has been proactive with everything. And Archie very much appreciates that. He's loyal. There is a pretty good chance he stays long term. But for that to happen the Flyers will have to be able to compete at the highest levels. That is where we are headed.

So STOP complaining (please don't take that wrong), enjoy this. This (and what I mean by this is all of it: coach, arena, national rep) is what we have long waited for. Archie and the Athletic Department are transforming UD Basketball before our very eyes. Go Flyers!
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
^^ Just take out part of the concrete. There is more than enough room and enough slope. Not cheap, but with the money those seats can generate over 20yrs, it would pay for itself several times over.
I am skeptical...they can squeeze another 1 or 2 rows in that aisle, without having an obstructed view problem?


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Old 03-21-2017, 01:27 PM
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Leave that to the design engineers. They will or have figured it out. I am certain.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:47 PM
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Earl...

One of the things I disagree with are the "terrace" suites you speak of. The block pillars that house the offices are tiny. The interior of those pillars contain HVAC and other utilities. Not saying it can't be done, but for every office and managerial space you take out of the arena, it has to be created elsewhere...that is one of the things lacking at the Arena...storage and office space. The admin offices and DC have nice spaces and room, but the old arena footprint is lacking storage and space.

The suites behind the 200's are pretty much the easiest thing to wrap your head around as well as the pedestrian flow going around the outside. I mentioned that in a thread 5 year ago when this was being discussed. The suites would come to the back row of the 200's, with 300 seating arranged on top. Yes, concrete would be torn out and replaced, but it is the easiest way to achieve what they want to achieve. The other options would be for the suites to be on the current corner concourse and behind the endzones...and not even put suites parallel to the court. Anything that is done requires people to move around the facility out of view of the main arena. That is the way every modern facility is designed.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
Have been told there might be:
1. A concession area with bathrooms at the top of the 400s. With the back of the concession area (opposite the seats) being glassed/windowed in. There would be elevators to access.
2. Where the concrete cinderblock wedges is in both "endzones", will probably be Terrace Suites. There are rooms/offices in there now.
3. Club seats were the current concourse is. There may be only one "dining area" on just one side. I don't think there has been a final decision on that as of yet.
4. There will be a greater capacity. Don't know exactly what it ill be.

Finally my Editorial: For those complaining about the cost. Unfortunately, if you don't want to pay, someone else will. - I do not know how else to put it. And you know what, most that whine about it and threaten, will find a spot in their budget for it when push comes to shove.

The Flyers are slowly but consistently moving up the food chain of programs - the goal is to position the Flyers directly under the "blue bloods" college basketball. It takes money to do that. The Flyers are providing a wonderful product. People are willing to pay for this product. They are not out to gouge anyone. But I believe all those with seats will be asked to pay more. The payoff will be what will feel like a new Arena inside the Arena. All will be new and updated. If you want the highest level recruits, if you want to keep you high end coach - this is the cost.

I've been told that Archie has never asked for anything. But the Athletic Department has been proactive with everything. And Archie very much appreciates that. He's loyal. There is a pretty good chance he stays long term. But for that to happen the Flyers will have to be able to compete at the highest levels. That is where we are headed.

So STOP complaining (please don't take that wrong), enjoy this. This (and what I mean by this is all of it: coach, arena, national rep) is what we have long waited for. Archie and the Athletic Department are transforming UD Basketball before our very eyes. Go Flyers!
One huge hole in your theory. Take a good look at the flyer fans attending these games for the past 30+ years. Many are now in or approaching limited iincome status on fixed budgets. Someone raised a question regarding the flyers traveling to games, at what point do these seniors die off and who is going to replace them. With the seeming lack of interest from students like in the early years will there be enough of them to replace the red vests.

Other than that I am with you. I know I am on a limited income sorta and continue to work to make life more interesting and enjoyable. At 74 not all my investments have paid off and must continue to work to maintain the level of life I have had. Not to mention with an empty nest I have nothing going on around my house to keep me interested. And I am not going to live like my retrired brother seven years older spending my days watching soap operas with his wife. Well at least they do have something to talk about
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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I am trying to remember, but I seem to recall that the Terrace Suite are going to happen and it would not be too big of a deal structurally. They will have a cool look. You would enter at the concourse level with the Suite area at that level, and then the seats would be placed obviously going down towards the court at the back of the suite from where you entered.

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Old 03-21-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am skeptical...they can squeeze another 1 or 2 rows in that aisle, without having an obstructed view problem?


I like the idea someone suggested earlier of removing the roof and making it look more like an airplane hanger. Bet there is an engineer or two around the Dayton area that knows how to design a plane hanger

Now is it practical, possible, that would be a different story.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
One huge hole in your theory.
I am not trying to be flippant or smart - but this is not a theory. Interest has NEVER been higher for Dayton Basketball. And, unless there is a huge change, this all will happen.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
I am not trying to be flippant or smart - but this is not a theory. Interest has NEVER been higher for Dayton Basketball. And, unless there is a huge change, this all will happen.
Theory was perhaps not the right word. My point is that while their is high interest there still remains the question of who will be buying these seats and licenses when the red vest group disappears.

From what I keep hearing the students just aren't into it like they were in the good ole days, whenever that was.

And as you say this will happen, a lot of things happen then end up unused and empty and in disarray.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:07 PM
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The "Sweatervests" are always being replaced by younger ticket holders. I have tickets in 2 areas of the Arena - both in the lower bowl, and I have seen turnover in my areas with younger ticketholders. Lots of families. These "Sweatervests" you speak of are generally not the same people who are original season ticket holders of from 1969. That was 48 years ago. There has been a lot of turnover.

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
The "Sweatervests" are always being replaced by younger ticket holders. I have tickets2 areas of the Arena - both in the lower bowl, and I have seen turnover in my areas with younger ticketholders. Lots of families. These "Sweatervests" you speak of are generally not the same people who are original season ticket holders of from 1969. That was 48 years ago. There has been a lot of turnover.
Glad to hear, just concerned as it was brought up with the crowds at Indy which were made up of mostly sweatervests. In fact it was a color commentator who raised the question say that Dayton travels well but look how old that crowd is.

I know my family were season ticket holders and had to give them up when the prices went beyond their means. Just concerned when I see all the sweatervests and hear that the students are supporting the team as in the past. Somewhere that line will meet and cross, hopefully just replace as before. Also remember Dayton the City community is not as large as it used to be population wise. There has to be someone ready and willing to replace those that for one reason or another move on.

It is my optimistic believe that flyer fanatics will continue that I would like to see a 17500 minimum seat arena instead of adding just a few hundred seats or worse eliminating some seats. That is a lot of money to spend on just cosmetics and some infrastructure. Want to play with the big boys build it and they will come. Seems I head that somewhere before
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:23 PM
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I hope, while getting more income, they increase prices, and not required "donations". When trying to resell, most people are only willing to pay face value, not actual cost. One of the reasons my family moved up to the 300 from 200.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Glad to hear, just concerned as it was brought up with the crowds at Indy which were made up of mostly sweatervests. In fact it was a color commentator who raised the question say that Dayton travels well but look how old that crowd is.
I didn't hear that comment but I'd bet the color commentator was probably commenting on the people who made up the official UD section behind the bench. Most schools distribute the limited tickets they have available based on donation level, season ticket length, etc. which would mean they would go to older fans in most cases.

I thought there were plenty of younger UD fans at the game and at the bars in Indy before and after the game. Most people who know they are are not high enough on the UD priority list for tickets just got tickets any place they could in the arena which doesn't make it easy to tell exactly the demographics/number of each teams crowd.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I didn't hear that comment but I'd bet the color commentator was probably commenting on the people who made up the official UD section behind the bench. Most schools distribute the limited tickets they have available based on donation level, season ticket length, etc. which would mean they would go to older fans in most cases.

I thought there were plenty of younger UD fans at the game and at the bars in Indy before and after the game. Most people who know they are are not high enough on the UD priority list for tickets just got tickets any place they could in the arena which doesn't make it easy to tell exactly the demographics/number of each teams crowd.
Thanks not living in Dayton not sure how all that is handled. When I travel and can get to games usually football, soccer or vball, womens basketball have little trouble getting in but mens basketball a little different.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I didn't hear that comment but I'd bet the color commentator was probably commenting on the people who made up the official UD section behind the bench. Most schools distribute the limited tickets they have available based on donation level, season ticket length, etc. which would mean they would go to older fans in most cases.

I thought there were plenty of younger UD fans at the game and at the bars in Indy before and after the game. Most people who know they are are not high enough on the UD priority list for tickets just got tickets any place they could in the arena which doesn't make it easy to tell exactly the demographics/number of each teams crowd.
Yes, those tickets are distributed based on Life Time Giving levels. The older you are, the more time you've had to give!
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:16 PM
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This is my last post ... being a downer ...

Quote ...
"the goal is to position the Flyers directly under the "blue bloods" college basketball"

I have no interest in funding UD Basketball to be a "blue blood" ... since the real blue bloods will resist this happening!!!

More than $3,000 a year (my cost today) for seat license (2 seats, ticket prices not included) for 2 seats and I'm out. This is not a threat. I will be in FL and don't need the seats at that price. I can easily buy an 80 inch TV and lots of extra dinners out .... each year .... for the rest of my life!!!

There comes a time in a persons life to let other people step up to fund their passion!!! I can't afford it. Red sweater vest ... out. I'll enjoy sunny southwest Florida in the winter!
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle View Post
This is my last post ... being a downer ...

Quote ...
"the goal is to position the Flyers directly under the "blue bloods" college basketball"

I have no interest in funding UD Basketball to be a "blue blood" ... since the real blue bloods will resist this happening!!!

More than $3,000 a year (my cost today) for seat license (2 seats, ticket prices not included) for 2 seats and I'm out. This is not a threat. I will be in FL and don't need the seats at that price. I can easily buy an 80 inch TV and lots of extra dinners out .... each year .... for the rest of my life!!!

There comes a time in a persons life to let other people step up to fund their passion!!! I can't afford it. Red sweater vest ... out. I'll enjoy sunny southwest Florida in the winter!
No where did it say that UD needs to be funded to be a Blue Blood. Please Re-read what I typed.

It sucks if you cannot afford it. But thats the way it works, it gives others the opportunity to move down. And it gives others the opportunity to get the seats of those who moved down. The Circle of UD Sweatvest Life!
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:46 PM
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I headed to Pitt for the A10 on Friday. The UD Alum or the Pitt chapter had a pre game "gathering" starting at 10:00 AM. I got there at 10:15 and you couldn't move in the joint $20 cover and all. Crowd wasn't all sweater vests so subsequent generations are there and ready to support our Flyers.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LI2UD2PA View Post
I headed to Pitt for the A10 on Friday. The UD Alum or the Pitt chapter had a pre game "gathering" starting at 10:00 AM. I got there at 10:15 and you couldn't move in the joint $20 cover and all. Crowd wasn't all sweater vests so subsequent generations are there and ready to support our Flyers.
I was there too, in fact the majority of fans were in their 30s and 40s. And it was PACKED!
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LI2UD2PA View Post
I headed to Pitt for the A10 on Friday. The UD Alum or the Pitt chapter had a pre game "gathering" starting at 10:00 AM. I got there at 10:15 and you couldn't move in the joint $20 cover and all. Crowd wasn't all sweater vests so subsequent generations are there and ready to support our Flyers.
Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
I was there too, in fact the majority of fans were in their 30s and 40s. And it was PACKED!
I was there with my brother as well. I would also agree that there was a good amount of younger Flyer Fans. It definitely was not the older crowd that most people think of when they think of Flyer fans.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:21 PM
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What is everyone's cutoff on older/younger? Mine keeps moving up. Currently at 60.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:45 PM
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Its good to hear the crowd is still young. It has been a concern in the back of my mind for sometime now. Not living in Dayton I don't get a feel for the age of the fans.

I know its ironic to want an arena new or present retro to be 17500 to 20000 as I think we could fill it, not every game but for the big ones, then worry about the fan base age wise.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:12 PM
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If they could substantiate building an addition, or a whole new arena to fit in 20,000 azzes per game, you'd better believe they would. They are at or near capacity now based on metropolis. You can bet this subject has been mulled over incessantly by the powers that be..jmo.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Its good to hear the crowd is still young. It has been a concern in the back of my mind for sometime now. Not living in Dayton I don't get a feel for the age of the fans.

I know its ironic to want an arena new or present retro to be 17500 to 20000 as I think we could fill it, not every game but for the big ones, then worry about the fan base age wise.
The fan base's age distribution is just fine. In fact there is a new generation of Flyer fans that are young and completely enamored with the Flyers. It's the greatest thing. There is no issue with the age of the fans. We all eventually become Sweatervests.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Thanks not living in Dayton not sure how all that is handled. When I travel and can get to games usually football, soccer or vball, womens basketball have little trouble getting in but mens basketball a little different.
With the games in Indy, the likelihood of any regular season ticket holder in the midcourt sections of the 200s (meaning someone paying $600 a seat in annual donations plus tickets) was nil. The only people getting the official seats in the lower arena (or the upper) were the longest tenured and deepest pocketed.

There are sections that skew older. And it's noticeable when they exit the Arena. That means they haven't given up their tickets yet. It doesn't mean there isn't someone to replace them.

Most of the surveys and responses indicate they will pay more, and there is demand. There's a limit though. They can't charge anything close to UNC or UK.

The students aren't the typical breeding ground for future ticket holders any longer. The large majority of the graduates leave the area.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:20 PM
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Here's a thought. Take a few games before conference play and market them to groups of alum. Game ticket and a night in the UD owned Marriott. Get the old gang together and fill the stands during those less than capacity games. Maybe they can assign the section behind Red Scare.

I also feel once alum come "home" they have a tendency to financially support the university. Nice hit to the bookstore, area bars and restaurants.

GO FLYERS
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:58 PM
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Here's a question: I know in the past at least one of the boxes behind the basket was available on a per game basis. Are these all sold? Are the new sideline boxes going to new buyers, or will those behind the buckets move down? Are there new buyers if they move down?

I'm thinking maybe it would make more sense for those in the boxes to move down, then add seats in the lounge areas. Again, unaware as to the popularity of the Flight Deck, but between the Flight Deck, and Bosch Lounge I could see 5 rows of 30 seats at each end, or 300 more seats.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Here's a question: I know in the past at least one of the boxes behind the basket was available on a per game basis. Are these all sold? Are the new sideline boxes going to new buyers, or will those behind the buckets move down? Are there new buyers if they move down?

I'm thinking maybe it would make more sense for those in the boxes to move down, then add seats in the lounge areas. Again, unaware as to the popularity of the Flight Deck, but between the Flight Deck, and Bosch Lounge I could see 5 rows of 30 seats at each end, or 300 more seats.
The Loge seats, which are the ones on the flight deck side, we're completely sold out the season. Each one of those seats sell for $4000 each for the season. They are extremely popular. There is a very high demand for those type of seats, hence the remodel of the arena to create more high-end seats of this nature.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
The fan base's age distribution is just fine. In fact there is a new generation of Flyer fans that are young and completely enamored with the Flyers. It's the greatest thing. There is no issue with the age of the fans. We all eventually become Sweatervests.
Even though their are many younger fans who have not hit the sweatervest stage yet, the younger fans frequently do not have the $ to spend on the high end luxury boxes, or even the higher priced seat licenses required for most of the lower arena.

I have many friends who love the Flyers and never miss a game, on TV. I have invited a few from time to time, and they would rather either enjoy the game at home on the 60" HD TV, or at the local bar where beers are $3 each instead of $6.50, and they do not cut you off shortly after halftime.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Even though their are many younger fans who have not hit the sweatervest stage yet, the younger fans frequently do not have the $ to spend on the high end luxury boxes, or even the higher priced seat licenses required for most of the lower arena.

I have many friends who love the Flyers and never miss a game, on TV. I have invited a few from time to time, and they would rather either enjoy the game at home on the 60" HD TV, or at the local bar where beers are $3 each instead of $6.50, and they do not cut you off shortly after halftime.
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And that is fine! Everyone has their way of watching the Flyers play. And it just so happened that this year the arena set a per game attendance record of just over 13,000 per game. Everyone has choices how they spend disposal income.

But you know these friends of yours, they really have no idea what they're missing by not going to the games. There is nothing like the atmosphere in the arena. It's a very special place.

Also, as these twentysomethings become 30 somethings and eventually 40 somethings, they will be making a lot more money. And at that point they assuredly will be able to afford the type of seats they desire. That's the way it works.

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
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And that is fine! Everyone has their way of watching the Flyers play. And it just so happened that this year the arena set a per game attendance record of just over 13,000 per game. Everyone has choices how they spend disposal income.
Agree, I hope you don't take my comment wrong. Yes, lots of younger fans in the arena. Yes, I hope a major expansion and renovation does get done. I just hope UD is not banking too heavily on the fans, increased seat license fees, higher ticket and concession prices, etc.... paying for a major part of what is being done. I know they had focus groups, but I fear many of the older fans may say enough is finally enough money wise, and many of the younger generation may say they are on board, but when it comes time to write that check they will not. As was said earlier, most grads do not stay in Dayton anymore. Does Dayton have enough local companys willing to step up to the table with their check books? One down year for the Flyers, or one down turn in the economy, and who will pay the bills?
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Agree, I hope you don't take my comment wrong. Yes, lots of younger fans in the arena. Yes, I hope a major expansion and renovation does get done. I just hope UD is not banking too heavily on the fans, increased seat license fees, higher ticket and concession prices, etc.... paying for a major part of what is being done. I know they had focus groups, but I fear many of the older fans may say enough is finally enough money wise, and many of the younger generation may say they are on board, but when it comes time to write that check they will not. As was said earlier, most grads do not stay in Dayton anymore. Does Dayton have enough local companys willing to step up to the table with their check books? One down year for the Flyers, or one down turn in the economy, and who will pay the bills?
I am not here speaking for the university. I'm just a fan. A very long time season ticket holder. Since they initiated the seat licenses back in the late 90s, the seat license cost has steadily increased. There are now more season ticket holder's than there were for the institute of the seat license. The luxury boxes and the Loge seats came in with the seat license - as well as the very expensive courtside seats. All of the seats are sold out. In fact there is very high demand for them. There are a lot of people in Dayton that make a lot of money. There are no pro sports in Dayton. The Flyers are our pro franchise. The people will pay what is asked as long as it's fair. I very much trust the university to find that balance point. The university is not here to gouge the fans. The university is doing everything it can to provide the flyer faithful with a top 25 program and eventually a top 10 program.

When I go to the arena, what I see is every possible generation represented fairly equally across the board. Young kids, high school kids, college kids, people in their 30s 40s 50s and the sweatervests. It's a place to gather and to enjoy the flyers as well as to enjoy each other. I for one will pay what they ask.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:14 PM
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The last thing that will happen is adding thousands of seats. No one wants a lot of empty seats that they can't sell. Look at the Dayton Dragons, if they wanted to meet demand they could by adding seats. Demand is strong but we aren't selling out every game.

There's a lot of talk about everyone paying high sums for tickets. As a young fan who sits in the 300s I think my seats are a great value. If you don't want to pay a seat license and outrageous amounts for seats, just move up.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by udfanatic View Post
Look at the Dayton Dragons, if they wanted to meet demand they could by adding seats. Demand is strong but we aren't selling out every game.
Not selling out every game? You mean the sell-out streak was a hoax? You don't say ...............
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Not selling out every game? You mean the sell-out streak was a hoax? You don't say ...............
Big time hoax. They gave this season ticket holder at least 7 additional games last year, all at the last minute," to make up for the cold weather or overcast skies on such and such date that might have kept us from using our tickets."
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:46 AM
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I have to assume that a lot of the future luxury seats/boxes would go to corporations. UD probably has a good idea of who those companies are and in essence has already sold some.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:52 AM
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Certainly there are corporations that will be buying some seats. But there are a lot more Business Owners, Physicians, Attorneys, Business Exectives, etc.. that will want to buy them as well. I for one have several seats at the Arena, but I am looking to get two more Club Seats. I think there will be many others like me, that will use this as an opportunity to acquire more premium seats.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:05 AM
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Technically I guess UD could claim every game is a sellout in that bball tickets are included in every students tuition (or at least it used to be) so that's 8000 in attendance at every game regardless. But if you notice that the student overflow section in the upper 400 corner is always empty, sellout or not. Attendance is a game at every school. The renovations will not increase the number of seats. It will drive more revenue from the existing seats.

As for seat pricing, I'm guessing that 80%+ of season ticket holders in the lower bowl have held seats for 30+ years and are committed Flyer Faithful (myself included - family ticket holder since 1962 and I live in Cleveland). Now I've been told by UD folks that there is pent up demand for those seats. But if you raise the prices to the point that 30 year ticket holders are replaced with these new "fans", you run the risk that these new fans are more fickle and will bolt after a down season or two or a change in coach -and- you may have pi**ed off your previous 30 year fans to the point that they won't come back or won't come back at the current prices.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Technically I guess UD could claim every game is a sellout in that bball tickets are included in every students tuition (or at least it used to be) so that's 8000 in attendance at every game regardless. But if you notice that the student overflow section in the upper 400 corner is always empty, sellout or not. Attendance is a game at every school. The renovations will not increase the number of seats. It will drive more revenue from the existing seats.

As for seat pricing, I'm guessing that 80%+ of season ticket holders in the lower bowl have held seats for 30+ years and are committed Flyer Faithful (myself included - family ticket holder since 1962 and I live in Cleveland). Now I've been told by UD folks that there is pent up demand for those seats. But if you raise the prices to the point that 30 year ticket holders are replaced with these new "fans", you run the risk that these new fans are more fickle and will bolt after a down season or two or a change in coach -and- you may have pi**ed off your previous 30 year fans to the point that they won't come back or won't come back at the current prices.
No one would bolt. Those tickets are extremely valuable. Everyone knows that. And you won't see the prices skyrocket for the lower bowl to the point that it drives out long time season ticket holders. That's just not going to happen.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:57 AM
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What happens to demand if the divide between the P5 and the rest gets even bigger?
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
No one would bolt. Those tickets are extremely valuable. Everyone knows that. And you won't see the prices skyrocket for the lower bowl to the point that it drives out long time season ticket holders. That's just not going to happen.
People don't live forever.

As long as they keep winning, UD's in great shape for another 10 years...maybe a little longer. Trouble will begin when the current population of <25s grow up. From my experience, they don't care to attend games live. They'd rather watch it on TV or just wait until ESPN shows the highlights. This is a generation who wants to be entertained 24/7 and find video games or parties a better outlet than driving, parking, cheering and driving home.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
What happens to demand if the divide between the P5 and the rest gets even bigger?
Demand for Dayton basketball tickets? Are you kidding me? What has happened to demand for UD tickets as the P5 has gotten stronger?

And that whole P5 versus Mid-Major thing makes zero sense. So Northwestern is a Power School and Dayton is not? DePaul is a Power School and Dayton is not. It's ridiculous.

Dayton is a top 25/30 program by all metrics. Period.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
People don't live forever.

As long as they keep winning, UD's in great shape for another 10 years...maybe a little longer. Trouble will begin when the current population of <25s grow up. From my experience, they don't care to attend games live. They'd rather watch it on TV or just wait until ESPN shows the highlights. This is a generation who wants to be entertained 24/7 and find video games or parties a better outlet than driving, parking, cheering and driving home.
You and I have much different experiences. I see an Arena full of 25s. They want to feel the experience. You cannot get that on TV.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
You and I have much different experiences. I see an Arena full of 25s. They want to feel the experience. You cannot get that on TV.
How many of those 25's bought their own tickets versus just using mom or grandpas tickets?
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
You and I have much different experiences. I see an Arena full of 25s. They want to feel the experience. You cannot get that on TV.
You must be hanging out around the bars...while I'm hanging out around the bathrooms!
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As long as they keep winning, UD's in great shape for another 10 years...maybe a little longer. Trouble will begin when the current population of <25s grow up. From my experience, they don't care to attend games live. They'd rather watch it on TV or just wait until ESPN shows the highlights. This is a generation who wants to be entertained 24/7 and find video games or parties a better outlet than driving, parking, cheering and driving home.
Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
You and I have much different experiences. I see an Arena full of 25s. They want to feel the experience. You cannot get that on TV.
I'm in my 30s and I have actually grown tired of the live game experience at UD games and have attended less games the last two years even though I have season tickets. Part of that is the less than exciting opponents on the schedule, but a lot of it is that I know exactly what is going to occur at every media timeout and every song the DJ/band will play and when. (But please don't change the pregame intro because we all know how that went last time they tried to). Also I hate that my phone basically becomes worthless and I can hardly get live game stats when I'm in the arena. I only went to the following games this year.

1. Austin Peay (I went for the Big Steve tribute)
2. St. Marys (Great opponent)
3. Vanderbilt (SEC Opponent)
4. VCU (Conference Championship & Sr. Night)

So basically I went to games that the experience would be more exciting than a typical game. On the other hand I have been to every NCAA tournament game the last 4 years except the first two in Buffalo in 2014. Maybe if I lived closer(2 hr drive one way for me) I might attend more games, but just three years ago I went to 9 or 10 games even though I still had the same drive time. Hopefully an Arena update will help improve the live in game experience and allow people to use their phones via LTE or Wifi(I had no issues at Bankers Life using LTE all day).
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Hopefully an Arena update will help improve the live in game experience and allow people to use their phones via LTE or Wifi(I had no issues at Bankers Life using LTE all day).
This, to me, would be the biggest and most important upgrade possible.

As far as sges, I'm 50, my wife a little younger, and aside from 9ur son, we are by far the youngest people near where we sit in the 300s. There were more people closer to our age when we sat in the 200s.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
No one would bolt. Those tickets are extremely valuable. Everyone knows that. And you won't see the prices skyrocket for the lower bowl to the point that it drives out long time season ticket holders. That's just not going to happen.
So, based on the extremely limited sample below/above, people will bolt. One of the questions on the survey was "would you be willing to absorb a 100% increase?" Put that in place and see what happens. UD needs to be careful that they don't bite the hand that feeds them.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:01 PM
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Well, no one bolted when the seat license was imposted. No one bolted when they increased the seat license though the years. My initial license was either $100 or $200 per seat. Now it is $450. I see it probably going to $600-750. That deduction comes in nice at tax time.

All of the "new" extremely high dollar seats that came about after the last Arena renovation: The Court sides seats at a $5000 per seat donation, the Loge Seats at $4000 donation and the boxes (uncertain), are completely sold out.

This will be my last reply about the money issue. My hope is that it all works out. I have faith in the University. And they could double my donation - and I for one would pay it. Although, I am certain that wont happen.

Peace out!
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:18 PM
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Donations can be made without being required, and then they are 100% deductible instead of 80%. My wife and I have done it in the past. I'd like to see a drive for free will donations first. Also, why haven't they ever used s 50/50 at the games. I know some may say it's not much in their budget, but I could see several hundred thousand per season, and 17 very happy fans each year.

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Old 03-22-2017, 03:19 PM
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I'm not sure a 50/50 is legal if UD pockets their 50. Usually the house half is donated - baseball usually donates to the RBI program. Spring training games they donate to Phoenix area charities.

Maybe they could make the argument they are a tax exempt agency so they count as a valid recipient, but not sure how the legal authorities would look at it.

Might still be something to do, but may be zero in UD's budget.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:31 PM
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The athletic boosters do it at all of the high schools, was at a game this past fall where the winner left with over $14,000. If UD couldn't do it, surely the fans could organize a group that could donate the money to UD.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
The athletic boosters do it at all of the high schools, was at a game this past fall where the winner left with over $14,000. If UD couldn't do it, surely the fans could organize a group that could donate the money to UD.
I was going to say go to a high school football game up north in the MAC, then I saw where you were from!

A couple years ago everyone was excited when the Northmont / Wayne football game 50/50 had like a $500 payout. The same night little old Versailes topped $6K. You northerners like to gamble (and drink!)
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
Well, no one bolted when the seat license was imposted. No one bolted when they increased the seat license though the years. My initial license was either $100 or $200 per seat. Now it is $450. I see it probably going to $600-750. That deduction comes in nice at tax time.

All of the "new" extremely high dollar seats that came about after the last Arena renovation: The Court sides seats at a $5000 per seat donation, the Loge Seats at $4000 donation and the boxes (uncertain), are completely sold out.

This will be my last reply about the money issue. My hope is that it all works out. I have faith in the University. And they could double my donation - and I for one would pay it. Although, I am certain that wont happen.

Peace out!
Come on Earl you're now sounding a little smug, glad you are in a position to pay double but you don't have to rub it in others faces who can't.

Perhaps you need to join another flyer board with elitist members

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Old 03-22-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
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Come on Earl you're now sounding a little smug, glad you are in a position to pay double but you don't have to rub it in others faces who can't.

Perhaps you need to join another flyer board with elitist members
That's a cheap shot at him and the members of flyerhoops (who I imagine you're speaking of). People can spend their money how they want. Maybe Ud is a higher priority than cable tv to him.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:00 PM
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I appreciate Earls point of view and I'm sure UD hopes there are 9000 more Earls out there. But as others have pointed out, fan habits have changed and fans are more fickle. This is the first time since 1969 UD has had to have a leap of faith like this, but at least this time they have a lot more data to rely on.

As for how valuable UD tickets are, only time will tell. I consider my kidneys to be valuable, but I'm not going to sell one to pay for my seat license!

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Old 03-22-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
That's a cheap shot at him and the members of flyerhoops (who I imagine you're speaking of). People can spend their money how they want. Maybe Ud is a higher priority than cable tv to him.
Who knows maybe he was referring to Pride+
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
That's a cheap shot at him and the members of flyerhoops (who I imagine you're speaking of). People can spend their money how they want. Maybe Ud is a higher priority than cable tv to him.
You don't get it do you it has nothing to do with priority and everything to do with resources.

I feel that it was and is a cheap shot against the rest of flyers fans when he keeps stating over and over again he would be willing to pay what ever the asking price is.

And I wasn't referring to flyerhoops or UDPride not sure where he got that impression as I belong to both, just saying that not everyone is in a position to pay whatever the asking price is and to gloat in the face of those who can't is over the top. My reference to another board had nothing to do with either boards but possibly their is a board of the super elite where they can relate their wealth to others.

As stated above a person is not going to sell their body parts just to buy UD tickets. For those who can and are willing, great but don't make the rest of us fell like we aren't true loyal flyer fans.

Last edited by Avid Flyer; 03-22-2017 at 07:42 PM..
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UDGutter2 (03-22-2017)
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:14 PM
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Let me explain this in a different way.

First off I've attended UD games at the fieldhouse and our family had season tickets at the arena for years. So I kknow first hand the experience of attending a UD game. Been there for the upsets of Notre Dame and DePaul and JOB first year knocking off X for the league championship and the Pitt game where we dominated. Those are fond memories that will always be there so I don't have to attend every game to feel the excitement of UD games.

While I grew up on the poor side of life I lived around old money families and believe me they never gloat about their wealth, in fact if you didn't know them you'd have no idea of their wealth. New money as they call it is where the braggadocio come from.

Now on priorities. When you are the youngest family member at 74 and you have elders, who require assisted living raging from 4-6 thousand a month per person your priorities change.

My sister had Alzheimer for 18 years and was in assisted living, my mother was in a serious car accident and hospitalized for 18 months, then required assisted living, brother, sister in law, aunts and uncles who also required assisted living. As I said it runs approximately 4-6 per person per month. That is why at my age I continue to work to help support my family which is a far greater priority than buying season tickets for UD games.

So get your head out of you know where and realize that not everyone has the ideal life you have and can afford whatever prices UD wants to charge. Take your blessing and thank God for them as nothing is forever.

For me my family is priority one, nothing else comes close.
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