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  #1  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:35 AM
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X home and home renewed?

Questions ask of Steele included Home home with TOSU and Dayton. Steele said he was not against it as fans seem to want it. David West said he'd like to see it as he gad fond memories playing in front of the crazies at the Arena.

This confirms that Mack was behind all the blocking UD.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:37 AM
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Supposedly Greg Christopher the AD is adamantly against it
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:14 AM
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From what Iíve heard the desire for X not to play UD is even higher up than those two.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
From what Iíve heard the desire for X not to play UD is even higher up than those two.
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Do you mean God?
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  #5  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by flyhi524 View Post
Do you mean God?
I'm not involved.

And Steele was simply exercising 'coach-speak'. He knows he'll never set foot in UD Arena unless it's a play-in game.
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flyhi524 View Post
Do you mean God?
or Sister Jean.
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  #7  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:59 AM
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^^

What Rollo said, what incentive does he have to come out and say "not a chance". The only way UD sees X on a regular basis in the coming years is if somehow the OSU-X-UC-UD thing comes to fruition. I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:33 AM
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Talking

Same chance as a UD vs WSU game.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:07 AM
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or, unless it is a future potential advance game in an NCAA tournament... but it would then be on a neutral site...
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Questions ask of Steele included Home home with TOSU and Dayton. Steele said he was not against it as fans seem to want it. David West said he'd like to see it as he gad fond memories playing in front of the crazies at the Arena.

This confirms that Mack was behind all the blocking UD.

I think this was just a PC response by Steele. What else could he say? Don't hold your breath.
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  #11  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:03 PM
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Why would we want X players in our house? We just remodeled the arena and put in all kinds of new nice things.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:10 PM
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Only if we have the water fountains reinforced......
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Questions ask of Steele included Home home with TOSU and Dayton. Steele said he was not against it as fans seem to want it. David West said he'd like to see it as he gad fond memories playing in front of the crazies at the Arena.

This confirms that Mack was behind all the blocking UD.
Mack said the same thing on Channel 9's Sports of All Sorts a few years ago: Xavier would like to continue playing UD and would make the effort to continue the rivalry.

I think the only way we ever play X again is as part of the 4 team deal with UC and Ohio State. Steele is just giving the politically correct answer IMO.
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:37 PM
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Considering how Xavier fans constantly get beaten up in the UD Arena johns every time they attend, I doubt they want the series to renew either.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
I think this was just a PC response by Steele. What else could he say?
He could have used the Billy Donlon response - Playing the University of Dayton will do absolutely nothing for the Xavier program.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:06 PM
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I'd like to break the losing streak down there in my lifetime, otherwise who cares? Let's get over this inferiority complex.

In 2 years, our arena will once again far surpass theirs, as our campus always has.

In basketball, our fate rests in sustaining among the A-10 elite. Every year. No clunkers like this year. We can find plenty of more willing alternatives to X to boost our SOS.

Keep working on the man in the mirror, folks.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
I'd like to break the losing streak down there in my lifetime, otherwise who cares? Let's get over this inferiority complex.

In 2 years, our arena will once again far surpass theirs, as our campus always has.

In basketball, our fate rests in sustaining among the A-10 elite. Every year. No clunkers like this year. We can find plenty of more willing alternatives to X to boost our SOS.

Keep working on the man in the mirror, folks.
It's not an inferiority complex to derive joy in beating them.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
It's not an inferiority complex to derive joy in beating them.
Around here as many of us that want to play _avier again there will be plenty of people to beat you in the head with "it's not happening", "move on","inferiority complex", blah, blah,blah,blah,blah. Start a thread titled the grass is green and within 25 minutes a half dozen posters will tell you its blue(unless the thread is closed).

It's ok to want to play _avier, it's ok to want to be in the bIG eAST, it's ok to hate _avier, many won't let it happen. You're cheering and rooting MUST be based in facts and logic

They find themselves to be rational, unemotional and factual.

i prefer to be an overzealous, emotional,opinionated nut job Flyer fan
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Same chance as a UD vs WSU game.
Money and exposure with this game...team in Fairborn...not so much.

Old timers want the game to have the old rivalry back and get cracks at them in Norwood.

Newer fans and students don't have a clue what the rivalry was about and the further separated from the rivalry, the harder it will be to ever regain what it was.

I would like to see it...but money talks and BS walks...
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:38 AM
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The additional fact is there is pressure on X from some of their fans, who want to see the game(s) happen.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:44 AM
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UD is to WSU like Xavier is to UD. In another class. Hopefully the program doesn't regress to their level. WSU, I mean. The disparity between X and UD will continue to grow. Absolutely no reason to play if you're X. The rivalry is history but the bitterness will remain.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Money and exposure with this game...team in Fairborn...not so much.

Old timers want the game to have the old rivalry back and get cracks at them in Norwood.

Newer fans and students don't have a clue what the rivalry was about and the further separated from the rivalry, the harder it will be to ever regain what it was.

I would like to see it...but money talks and BS walks...
And the really old timers viewed UL, DePaul and UC as the rivalries, not X. We beat them like a drum. Although speaking of drums, UC whipped us pretty good back in the day.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:20 AM
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Following this thread, it appears that most have the opinion that it wasn't Chris Mack, certainly not just Mack, blocking the UD/XU game and that it went well beyond and above him.

Give me a few days and I'll get a confirmed answer, even if I have to get it from Mack directly.

I could be wrong on this one, but most of what I've heard (all from coaches pretty close to Mack) is that it wasn't Mack driving that bus. I'm sure he had no problem agreeing with it. Why would he want to put his wife thru that?
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Questions ask of Steele included Home home with TOSU and Dayton. Steele said he was not against it as fans seem to want it. David West said he'd like to see it as he gad fond memories playing in front of the crazies at the Arena.

This confirms that Mack was behind all the blocking UD.
West was always a cry baby, but **** was he good. I still remember the 47/18 he put up at Cintas Center in 2003. I was in the house that day. Amazing environment. WHY didn't Purnell double down?

UD looked really good that day. I think both were Top 20 going into that game. That UD team was really **** good. Came out and just punched Xavier in the mouth to start that game, but we just couldn't hold them off down the stretch.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Following this thread, it appears that most have the opinion that it wasn't Chris Mack, certainly not just Mack, blocking the UD/XU game and that it went well beyond and above him.

Give me a few days and I'll get a confirmed answer, even if I have to get it from Mack directly.

I could be wrong on this one, but most of what I've heard (all from coaches pretty close to Mack) is that it wasn't Mack driving that bus. I'm sure he had no problem agreeing with it. Why would he want to put his wife thru that?
I heard it from Mack directly at a function, Greg Christopher was also at the function, at the Cintas Center, as part of a large group function: there were hundreds of people at this function who heard Mack say this on a stage at a podium with a microphone, as part of some prepared remarks that Mack was giving.

He basically said that now that X has managed to separate itself from UD, as a result of X now being in the BE, that X no longer has any interest in ever playing UD again. Mack or GC also said that X wants to be the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in southwest Ohio, so as part of that goal, X is never going to play UD again.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He basically said that now that X has managed to separate itself from UD, as a result of X now being in the BE, that X no longer has any interest in ever playing UD again. Mack or GC also said that X wants to be the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in southwest Ohio, so as part of that goal, X is never going to play UD again.
It's going to take a lot more than dodging a basketball game to get there
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I heard it from Mack directly at a function, Greg Christopher was also at the function, at the Cintas Center, as part of a large group function: there were hundreds of people at this function who heard Mack say this on a stage at a podium with a microphone, as part of some prepared remarks that Mack was giving.

He basically said that now that X has managed to separate itself from UD, as a result of X now being in the BE, that X no longer has any interest in ever playing UD again. Mack or GC also said that X wants to be the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in southwest Ohio, so as part of that goal, X is never going to play UD again.
So if I interpret this correctly, itís an Institution decision/philosophy not to play UD, not a Chris Mack decision?

This is interesting. If this is accurate and transparent, then Steele was just being politically correct and this has no momentum with Mackís departure.

Iíd sure like to see a change.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:10 PM
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We can beat them without playing them. Instead of worrying too much about an actual game, let's just up our game and become the premier talent in the A10 with consistent NCAA appearances and trips past the first game.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
We can beat them without playing them. Instead of worrying too much about an actual game, let's just up our game and become the premier talent in the A10 with consistent NCAA appearances and trips past the first game.
Wow what a concept.

Instead of worrying "Ww need to be in ______ conference" we just need to be in the NCAA year in and out. And we can do that in the A10 just like Butler did it in Horizon
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:02 PM
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I was at the Philly airport Marriott three years ago & saw a guy who looked like Mack in the restaurant/bar. After he left, I struck up a conversation with the guy he was withóMike Pegues. They were on a recruiting trip. I asked when they were going to play UD again (knowing we were in the same exempt tourney that fall). Pegues laughed and said ďhopefully never,Ē then backtracked and said ďmaybe if they (UD) get in the Big East.Ē Not sure if he was blowing smoke, but he went on to say that he had heard there were discussions about adding UD to the Big East. That was three years ago though...

When I was going back up to my room, Mack walked past the elevator my buddy & I had gotten in. We both shouted ďGo Flyers!!!Ē as the doors closed. I got to see Mack shudder and flinch as we surprised him, maybe harkening back to his last 15-point beat down at the Arena.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:17 PM
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Things were different 3 years ago. Dayton was organizing a LaCrosse team, requirement for NBE but was dropped and never perused again. Sounds dead to me.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
lso said that X wants to be the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in southwest Ohio, so as part of that goal, X is never going to play UD again.
I believe that; it meshes with other things we've heard. It also explains why UD will never be in the Big East barring a sea change at Xavier.

"Never playing UD again" is a stupid way to go about achieving that, though. But if they want to petulantly take their ball and go home, make sure the world knows about it.

By the way, they have a loooooong way to go to even equal UD as the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in Southwest Ohio, never mind passing them.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:41 PM
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Apparently some Jesuit schools think they have a higher ranking (somewhere) than
Marianist (schools).
Shame on them. I really mean that.

Our day will come. Mary has some pull up there . . .
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:43 PM
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X wants home and homes that are of the caliber that will get them on national TV. And by national TV I mean Fox, not FS1 (and Fox would have the rights to the X home game). Its not only about someone at X not liking UD. Follow the money.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I heard it from Mack directly at a function, Greg Christopher was also at the function, at the Cintas Center, as part of a large group function: there were hundreds of people at this function who heard Mack say this on a stage at a podium with a microphone, as part of some prepared remarks that Mack was giving.

He basically said that now that X has managed to separate itself from UD, as a result of X now being in the BE, that X no longer has any interest in ever playing UD again. Mack or GC also said that X wants to be the premier Catholic institution of higher learning in southwest Ohio, so as part of that goal, X is never going to play UD again.
I have contended in the past that X and the BE not wanting to include UD is bigger than basketball. In the future, competition for students is going to get tougher and tougher. I donít think it is just about being the premier Catholic institution, it will eventually be about survival. UD starting a nursing program is surely not going to help the situation. There was a story told by the new U of Akron president a few years back, that the head of the Board of Trustees told him to take out a piece of paper. Draw a line down the middle and write OSU, Miami and UC on the left and all the other state Uís on the right. The head of the B of T said it was the new presidentís job to move U of Akron from the right side to the left because the ones on the left were going to be around forever but with the changing demographics in Ohio, half the ones on the right would be gone in some period in the not too distant future.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:52 AM
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I can believe it. Higher education I think is going through a disruption/change nationwide. Through in budget cuts, declining enrollment, population shifts, etc then I can see the small liberal colleges and some of the states schools here being in trouble.

I haven't lived in Dayton for a while but from what I can tell CJ, Alter, Carroll have lower enrollments now than the early 2000s. I don't think Dayton and Xavier from what I can tell are having in trouble attracting students but I imagine they are fighting over a smaller pool of students coming out of parochial education in Ohio and regionally.

Athletics are a great marketing tool for a university and I'm sure Xavier has been able to elevate their profile regionally and nationally from their basketball team. I'd be curious how much the location of their student body has changed over the last 10-15 years. I don't know but I'd guess they've got a higher profile in places like Chicago, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, etc now than they did in the early 90s.

Maybe someone here knows better than I but my understanding was that Xavier was essentially a commuter school for Cincinnati area Catholic high school kids in the 70/80s
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I have contended in the past that X and the BE not wanting to include UD is bigger than basketball. In the future, competition for students is going to get tougher and tougher. I donít think it is just about being the premier Catholic institution, it will eventually be about survival. UD starting a nursing program is surely not going to help the situation. There was a story told by the new U of Akron president a few years back, that the head of the Board of Trustees told him to take out a piece of paper. Draw a line down the middle and write OSU, Miami and UC on the left and all the other state Uís on the right. The head of the B of T said it was the new presidentís job to move U of Akron from the right side to the left because the ones on the left were going to be around forever but with the changing demographics in Ohio, half the ones on the right would be gone in some period in the not too distant future.
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I am surprised Ohio University wasn't on the left side of the page.
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I am surprised Ohio University wasn't on the left side of the page.
This was probably 5 years or so ago. I know there was a study done, looking at the demographics and how this would affect the Ohio universities, so I assume all the universities were looking at the same study.

I personally believe that if OU isn't on the left, it has moved significantly toward that side. I think it was once seen as a school of last resort but it has improved its facilities and academic standards tremendously.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2018, 08:48 AM
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I would think given the decline of NE Ohio that Kent State, Akron, Cleveland St, Youngstown St are a lot of commuter universities for that area
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:55 AM
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OSU is right. Competition on the University side has ramped up significantly over the past 10-15 years. UD now competes nationally for students. UD benefits over Zavier with its Engineering School and now expansive and expanding campus, and its endowment advantage, roughly $500 million versus $150 million. And, if Spina gets his way, our endowment will double to $1 billion with the upcoming capital campaign. Problem is, most "fans" don't know anything about the university side of a school. All they know is what ESPN tells them. What did you know about Loyola before March 15th? Zavier has benefitted enormously from a string of great coaches while UD has had good coaches. If Zavier has a 3-5-7 year downturn from a coaching/wins perspective, they may turn into another DePaul - for a long time. I was told about 5 years ago that Zavier was doling out more financial aid to attract students, laying off professors through attrition, "rightsizing" course offerings, etc. Also, the athletic Dept. was treading water even with the Fox money. They, to a degree, live and die by their basketball team. I prefer UD's "MO".
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:05 AM
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I don't know how much the engineering school is going to help the basketball program but I think the investments in the campus and surrounding area I think could pay some real dividends. Compare where the campus and Brown St. is now to 1998 and it's amazing how much everything is improved.

If you can get recruits on campus especially the ones from out of state who haven't visited it has a lot to offer. It's never going to be big state U but it's got enough that can appeal to folks and compliment the basketball program
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:00 AM
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I just think it is terrible that a long-term rivalry has been thrown in the trash like this.

Dayton and Xavier have been playing each other off and on since 1920, they played every year from 1945-2013.

This rivalry predates WWII, the MCC years, the A10 years, and the BE years.

No one respects tradition anymore.

Some things in life should not ever change with the passing of time/whatever else is going on in the surrounding world.

Several other longtime rivalries around the country have also died because of realignment.

All of it is terrible.


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Old 04-07-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I just think it is terrible that a long-term rivalry has been thrown in the trash like this.

Dayton and Xavier have been playing each other off and on since 1920, they played every year from 1945-2013.

This rivalry predates WWII, the MCC years, the A10 years, and the BE years.

No one respects tradition anymore.

Some things in life should not ever change with the passing of time/whatever else is going on in the surrounding world.

Several other longtime rivalries around the country have also died because of realignment.

All of it is terrible.


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Old 04-07-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Things were different 3 years ago. Dayton was organizing a LaCrosse team, requirement for NBE but was dropped and never perused again. Sounds dead to me.
Someone I had talked to, the year after the NBE realigned, that is closely associated with Providence College told me we were going to get an invite in three years and that the first three years without us was a concession to Xavier. So I feel like you are right that things have changed.

But why would men's lacrosse be the deal breaker though? There are only five BE schools that play men's lacrosse and four that play women's lacrosse. And of those only Butler in women's lacrosse is one of the new schools that play it.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I would think given the decline of NE Ohio that Kent State, Akron, Cleveland St, Youngstown St are a lot of commuter universities for that area
I think Akron is the real odd man out. I wouldnít call Kent a commuter school. Kent has done a good job in upping its game with campus improvements and the town of Kent has a more college town feel. YSU is small but appropriate for that area although I think they have struggled a bit with enrollment. CSU has also made some nice campus improvements and created a better residential environment although it is still a commuter school but is more viable because Cleveland is a big metro area. Akron has also spent quite a lot on faculties including a football stadium. The area around campus is nicer but it is still Akron. They have had declining enrollment issues. If I had to bet on one Ohio school not being around in 25 years, Akron would be the one. Maybe as a community college. Summit county does not have a cc system which probably hurts U of A too.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:12 AM
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The decline in dayton parochial schools is directly related to the decline of blue collar jobs, Frigidaire Delco NCR and the like. Population dropped nearly in half. Wil take years to recover.

That said growth between cincy and dayton is making the metro area closer to DFW type area.

Interesting just how many cincy athletes choose UD over X or UC. Malloy from Middletown Hoover from Springboro and Austria from Kettering all stated how they were excited to play for their hometown university. All chose UD over X and UC.

UD enrollment seems to grow each year. Dayton area can still grow in all directions whereas cincy is locked in on south side.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:19 PM
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The biggest cause of lower enrollment in Dayton area Catholic High Schools is the price of tuition. Without nuns and priests as faculty and less parish financial support, tuition rates have skyrocketed. Area Catholic Grade Schools have lower enrollments also.

The same is probably true nationwide.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:45 PM
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Enrollment is down in all dayton schools as population dropped nearly in half. Less people, less kids less students.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
It's going to take a lot more than dodging a basketball game to get there

and that's what grinds them...despite declining enrollment numbers nationally and the east and midwest are the 2 regions with the largest decline %'s UD welcomed their largest freshman class ever August 2017. If you know college aged kids in the region they'll tell you the difference or you could just attend 1 of UD Reunion weekends and see for yourself...no way our friends to the south bring those kind of crowds back to campus. I believe Anthony is going to have a positive impact of UD hoops and UD in general. Why worry about the series? For starters it's no longer a conference game and would become a distraction (too much emphasis) as an ooc game.
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UDGutter2 (04-08-2018)
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:58 AM
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I don't care if we ever play Xavier again. I'd like to play UC, but that probably won't happen either.
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't care if we ever play Xavier again. I'd like to play UC, but that probably won't happen either.
Really? I know you can't stand them(which is awesome), i'm baffled you would never want another crack(s) at them. We had our shot 3-4 years ago but "The Railroad Job" and a complete dump on the court mercifully had that stomping over at the 10:00 minute mark of the first half.

Are you telling me if the opportunity presented itself you wouldn't be completely fired up?
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