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02-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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Just off the Jet
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A10 performance vs. other conferences
On the CBS sports bracketology page, you can see a breakdown of conference performance versus other conferences. While we are all aware of the A10 not performing well this season, this breakdown illustrates how poorly the A10 has performed vs. peer competition this year. We would like to believe that as a basketball centric conference, the A10 sits just outside of the power 5 and can even be competitive versus that level of competition.
The actual results indicate that our belief is more hope than reality. Against P5 conferences, where the A10 has played at least a few games, the results are terrible. Against the BE, the results are horrible. The A10 seems to be competitive (breakeven) with the AAC and the MVC and mops the floor with MEAC like schools. Quite impressive!
The A10 must field more competitive teams throughout the conference otherwise UD (and the conference) will continue to struggle to regularly schedule high level competition and will never become a seeding priority for the tournament selection committee.
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02-23-2017, 11:40 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by P-Man
On the CBS sports bracketology page, you can see a breakdown of conference performance versus other conferences. While we are all aware of the A10 not performing well this season, this breakdown illustrates how poorly the A10 has performed vs. peer competition this year. We would like to believe that as a basketball centric conference, the A10 sits just outside of the power 5 and can even be competitive versus that level of competition.
The actual results indicate that our belief is more hope than reality. Against P5 conferences, where the A10 has played at least a few games, the results are terrible. Against the BE, the results are horrible. The A10 seems to be competitive (breakeven) with the AAC and the MVC and mops the floor with MEAC like schools. Quite impressive!
The A10 must field more competitive teams throughout the conference otherwise UD (and the conference) will continue to struggle to regularly schedule high level competition and will never become a seeding priority for the tournament selection committee.
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Is that just this year or historically?
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02-23-2017, 02:10 PM
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Just off the Jet
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This year only, but I vaguely remember this grid being produced in previous years on that same website.
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02-23-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by P-Man
On the CBS sports bracketology page, you can see a breakdown of conference performance versus other conferences. While we are all aware of the A10 not performing well this season, this breakdown illustrates how poorly the A10 has performed vs. peer competition this year. We would like to believe that as a basketball centric conference, the A10 sits just outside of the power 5 and can even be competitive versus that level of competition.
The actual results indicate that our belief is more hope than reality. Against P5 conferences, where the A10 has played at least a few games, the results are terrible. Against the BE, the results are horrible. The A10 seems to be competitive (breakeven) with the AAC and the MVC and mops the floor with MEAC like schools. Quite impressive!
The A10 must field more competitive teams throughout the conference otherwise UD (and the conference) will continue to struggle to regularly schedule high level competition and will never become a seeding priority for the tournament selection committee.
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Then why is our conference rating in the RPI about the same as other years, and not that far behind #6, the PAC12?
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02-23-2017, 02:49 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
Then why is our conference rating in the RPI about the same as other years, and not that far behind #6, the PAC12?
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We are # 8 behind the AAC.
Percentage points wise, we are a long way from #6 Pac 12. In fact, we are percentage wise closer to being below #12 Missouri Valley conference.
#16 Metro Atlantic Conference is closer to us percentage points RPI wise than what we are to #5 SEC.
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02-23-2017, 02:54 PM
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General
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Again, this is the result of losing Temple and Xavier. It took 4 years but you're starting to see the consequences now. GMU and Davidson just don't fill the void. The only way for the A10 to almost keep pace would be to get rid of the lower level programs and fill them with more Davidsons.
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02-23-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
We are # 8 behind the AAC.
Percentage points wise, we are a long way from #6 Pac 12. In fact, we are percentage wise closer to being below #12 Missouri Valley conference.
#16 Metro Atlantic Conference is closer to us percentage points RPI wise than what we are to #5 SEC.
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But is it different than last year or the year before? I know where we are now, but I keep hearing that the A10 is weaker this year. My memory is that we were always #7 or 8 or 9.
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02-23-2017, 03:06 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
But is it different than last year or the year before? I know where we are now, but I keep hearing that the A10 is weaker this year. My memory is that we were always #7 or 8 or 9.
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For the most part you are correct we were 7th most years, a couple 6's and 8's.
Biggest difference, in past years 7th best conference was percentage wise a lot closer to the pack at the top than what we are this year. Historical link below.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...ate=2016-04-05
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02-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Again, this is the result of losing Temple and Xavier. It took 4 years but you're starting to see the consequences now. GMU and Davidson just don't fill the void. The only way for the A10 to almost keep pace would be to get rid of the lower level programs and fill them with more Davidsons.
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Or get rid of some lower level programs and not replace them with anybody.
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02-23-2017, 03:58 PM
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You know what the difference w/ the P12 and the A10 is this season? Roughly 1 additional win OOC from everyone in the A10 rather than a loss. If every team could flip 1 game, we'd be looking at 3 teams for sure, and hoping for a 4th. The A10 won its OOC games at a 61.1% clip, the P12 won theirs at a 71.1% clip.
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02-23-2017, 04:09 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
But is it different than last year or the year before? I know where we are now, but I keep hearing that the A10 is weaker this year. My memory is that we were always #7 or 8 or 9.
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Face it, we have not given our usual bump to the conference RPI by winning against some of the P5 teams that we have in the past. Not saying we are a drag, just that we usually do more to make up for the others. The only OOC win of significance is URI over Cincy.
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02-23-2017, 04:09 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Or get rid of some lower level programs and not replace them with anybody.
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Yes that would help. However, I believe adding more Davidson and GW types would help more because having a lot of programs that seem to pop up in the picture once or twice every 4 years gives you a better chance of having more quality opponents every year. The Fordhams and Duquesnes are teams we know are going to be RPI killers year in and year out.
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02-23-2017, 05:08 PM
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Brigadier General
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Round Robin model. Drop Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle and one other.
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02-23-2017, 06:32 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
Round Robin model. Drop Duquesne,Fordham,LaSalle and one other.
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I know LaSalle plays in a HS gym, but they did make the Sweet 16 just a few years ago.
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02-23-2017, 06:52 PM
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It is always drop LaSalle and Fordham on this board. I doubt it is even on the table with the A10 committee. The conference does what it does. The poor RPI is not LaSalle and Fordham this year. Both are doing okay, and LaSalle usually generates a decent team. I think the difference this year, is SLU is down, way down to where they were. Same with St. Joe's, UMass, GW, Davidson, etc. Usually there is a good showing by the middle of the pack teams competing for an NIT bid, this year it is only URI that gets that far. Richmond has played well in conference, but they stunk it up in the OOC. I think it is a low point in the conference, my feeling is the conference will be better overall next year. Usually there are 6 or more teams in the top 100 RPI or really close.
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02-23-2017, 07:40 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I know LaSalle plays in a HS gym, but they did make the Sweet 16 just a few years ago.
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A second floor high school gym with that smells like chlorine from the pool below, and has a lower capacity than they actually list in the program(Trust me I counted them).
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02-24-2017, 09:14 AM
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Major General
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The Executive Summary
The A-10 is an OK conference and the Big East is superb. Now where would you prefer to hang out?
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02-24-2017, 09:42 AM
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Conference memberhip
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Again, this is the result of losing Temple and Xavier. It took 4 years but you're starting to see the consequences now. GMU and Davidson just don't fill the void. The only way for the A10 to almost keep pace would be to get rid of the lower level programs and fill them with more Davidsons.
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Conferences don't boot out member schools. I can think of only one instance in which that occurred....and then only after a 5 year probation period.
But, while conferences may think kicking out a school is "ungentlemanly", there is a way in which an offending school can be forced to make the decision themselves. It has to do with facilities.
The A10 is BB-centric. And it's reasonable to require all schools to invest in BB facilities that are among the very best. Great facilities do not guarantee a certain attendance level. But they do significantly influence recruiting...which results in better teams....and, of course, that affects attendance.
If an A10 school is content with BB facilities that are way below reasonable levels....and is unwilling to rectify the situation within five years, let's say, then the school itself is making the decision that it is unwilling to meet A10 requirements for membership. It is not being suddenly or unfairly being booted out.
Not all (any) A10 schools will ever be a "Dayton". Nonetheless, even if average attendance is 4000 and a 5000-seat facility is adequate, all aspects of the facility....lockers, media facilities, training, everything,...still can be top notch in all respects.
As I recall, a few years ago St. Joes invested $20 million to upgrade its BB facilities. St. Joes has a great BB tradition and is in a pro-sports city.....it will never draw 10,000-15,000. But there is no reason why all other aspects of its ~ 4000-seat facility should not be as good as Dayton's. I have not seen the SJU upgrade. But I presume the $20 million made a significant impact.
Fordham: My guess is that the "card" that FU holds is its knowledge that the A10 does not want to leave the NYC market. If so, FU can do just about as much/little as it wants.
Bottom line: Great facilities matter and demonstrate a school's commitment.
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02-24-2017, 10:10 AM
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While I would absolutely prefer to have the conference schedule that affiliation in the BE could offer, the current members of the A10 aren't throwaways. I wonder what guidance and pressure to improve is given between conference members? We have seen several universities running on "cruise control" for extended periods of time.
Certain institutions may have leadership which views athletics almost as an intramural type activity that the school is somewhat forced to offer, rather than viewing athletics as a key driver to institutional recognition, student body growth and increased endowment.
There are a couple of examples that illustrate how an investment in athletics positively impacts the university as a whole. Take two BE examples, X and BU. When I attended UD in the mid 80s, the X campus and athletic facilities (Gardens) were a relative dump. As X resourced athletics appropriately, there has been significant improvement across the board in athletics and the overall university.
Somewhat of a similar story at BU, which had a historically significant athletic program, but had fallen into deep mediocrity. Investments have been made into athletics and facilities and now the university as a whole has regained some prominence.
Obviously, UD is another example where the proper funding of athletics is a component of overall university improvement, increased alumni involvement and financial strength.
In the A10, we have numerous programs that have significant academic or athletic achievements in their history. It is beyond time that these same institutions are directed into decisions to improve their stature and ensure their future, long term prominence.
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02-24-2017, 10:29 AM
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When the A10 has 4-5 strong teams it typically does well in the RPI and selection processes. This year, it is a two horse race and not even that close. We only have 5 teams in the top 100, with 2 of them not even in the top 85. The only reason the A10 is not further down is because someone finally got it through to the bottom teams' that they need Ws in the OOC schedule. Bottom line, this year, the top has shrunk a lot, and the bottm has shrunk bait with a very large muddled middle of teams that can beat each other on any given night.
I've saidit before: Lasalle and Fordham were charter members of the MAAC (with iona, St peters, Manhattan, Fairfield, et al). With 2 NBA teams, 2 NHL teams, 2 MLB teams and a long history with the Big East schools, It is near impossible for a local NYC school to be the big hit that everyone always wants it to be. As much as the Fordham folks may disagree, they belong in the MAAC, and they would compete well there. Nobody grows up in NY saying they want to play for the local school, except maybe St Johns (though that is becoming a long time ago and dpoesnt have the same allure with so many other games on TV now). Lasalle is about 4th in line in their own city. About every 10-15 years they convice a local kid to go there, they have a run and then he graduates and it goes right back where they were. They would also compete well in the MAAC. I never understood the move to the A10 from the A10's perspective or the two schools' perspective. Maybe it's thenon-basketball sports?
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02-24-2017, 10:37 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by AC91
When the A10 has 4-5 strong teams it typically does well in the RPI and selection processes. This year, it is a two horse race and not even that close. We only have 5 teams in the top 100, with 2 of them not even in the top 85. The only reason the A10 is not further down is because someone finally got it through to the bottom teams' that they need Ws in the OOC schedule. Bottom line, this year, the top has shrunk a lot, and the bottm has shrunk bait with a very large muddled middle of teams that can beat each other on any given night.
I've saidit before: Lasalle and Fordham were charter members of the MAAC (with iona, St peters, Manhattan, Fairfield, et al). With 2 NBA teams, 2 NHL teams, 2 MLB teams and a long history with the Big East schools, It is near impossible for a local NYC school to be the big hit that everyone always wants it to be. As much as the Fordham folks may disagree, they belong in the MAAC, and they would compete well there. Nobody grows up in NY saying they want to play for the local school, except maybe St Johns (though that is becoming a long time ago and dpoesnt have the same allure with so many other games on TV now). Lasalle is about 4th in line in their own city. About every 10-15 years they convice a local kid to go there, they have a run and then he graduates and it goes right back where they were. They would also compete well in the MAAC. I never understood the move to the A10 from the A10's perspective or the two schools' perspective. Maybe it's thenon-basketball sports?
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La Salle has the worst facilities by far in the A10 for all their sports, and to be honest, it is not even close. Somehow, Dr. John Giannini convinces some good players (mainly transfers) to come to La Salle. They somehow manage to have a good year in basketball every 3-4 years. As for the rest of their sports, typically they are near the bottom.
I know above I pointed out that they made the Sweet 16 a few years back, but I do not think the A10 would be hurting if they got rid of La Salle.
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02-24-2017, 11:41 AM
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LaSalle
Originally Posted by m21eagle45
La Salle has the worst facilities by far in the A10 for all their sports,.... I know above I pointed out that they made the Sweet 16 a few years back, but I do not think the A10 would be hurting if they got rid of La Salle.
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eagle, please read my post just a few above
Conferences do not "get rid of" member schools. Doesn't happen. What the conference can do is pressure its members. And I believe that if firm minimum standards and time-lines are established for facilities, an environment could be created by which a school choosing not to meet the standards is essentially withdrawing from the conference....as opposed to being "kicked out".
Conference leaders have to take the lead pressing for such a development. Absent that, nothing will improve. As I said, I bet that FU knows that the A10 wants to retain an NYC presence no matter what. As for LaSalle, we have SJU in Philly.
It's been a very, very long time since I've seen LaSalle and SJU facilities. I've seen URI's Ryan Center and it's top rate; very nice.
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