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View Poll Results: Basket? FTs? No basket? No FTs?
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Pollard's basket counts, Pierre shoot the FT's, WAM ball under the basket
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3 |
12.00% |
No basket, reset clock, Pierre shoots 1-and-1
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3 |
12.00% |
Basket counts, no FTs since it's not correctable, WAM ball
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18 |
72.00% |
No basket, do not reset clock, Pierre shoots 1-and-1
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1 |
4.00% |
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05-25-2015, 10:26 AM
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YMtC - FT, FG and correctable errors
Global warming has encapsulated the universe and the city of Dayton is the epicenter of the snowy destruction. It's mid-December and there's 12" of snow on the ground with another 12" expected overnight. Al Gore has been snowed-in at the latest Global Warming Conference in Oslo and the glaciers are advancing southward at rates not seen since the last Ice Age.
Fortunately for UD basketball fans the game scheduled against Wyoming A&M (WAM) is a go as their plane landed 2 days early in anticipation of the 'Warming'. Unfortunately for Dayton fans, the snow has prevented the assigned refs from making the trip so the PA announcer pleads for volunteer officials from the 13,426 undeterred in attendance...and to nobody's surprise, 3 volunteers - N2663R, Figgie and Clayton - put on the stripes and put their knowledge of the Rules to the test.
With 3:33 remaining in the somewhat smoothly officiated game and the Flyers up 64-57, Dyshawn Pierre is fouled on a rebound...WAM's 7th team foul. Once again, the scorekeeper fails to inform the officials of the '1-and-1' situation so Figgie hands the ball to Scoochie for the throw-in.
Scoochie throws the ball to Pierre who drives the lane and tosses up running one-hander that hits off the back of the rim and bounces outward when out of nowhere, my man Kendall Pollard comes flying in from the baseline, grabs the ball with both hands and slams the ball back thru the basket for a 66-57 lead!
At that time and before the ball is inbounded, the WAM coach jumps to his feet and asks the scorekeeper to buzz the refs so they can huddle and discuss the missed 1-and-1 call from a few seconds earlier. As requested, Figgie, Clayton and N2663R come to the table, meet with both coaches and the scorekeeper and realize that UD should have shot the free throws and now have decision to make. As they frantically look for King Rollo in the stands for advice, all eyes are on them to make the right call...
...after a 5-minute delay, a shaky Clayton points to UD's bench and the scorekeeper and, well, YOU make the call!
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05-25-2015, 11:07 AM
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Major
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This seems like such an easy answer... And therefore incorrect, but I went with my gut instinct on this one. Just call a mulligan and start from the Free Throws. No Harm, No...er
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05-25-2015, 12:51 PM
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General of the Air Force
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I guessed C
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05-25-2015, 03:50 PM
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I say C . I don't think you can take the points off the board. What if Pollard's slam was the final second of the game? What if there were two or three plays, and points scored, when the error was discovered? Slippery slope into a big can of worms. (Yuck)
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05-26-2015, 09:10 AM
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493 hits and only 16 votes?
C'mon people...grow a pair and pull the trigger!
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05-26-2015, 09:31 AM
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General
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I have to thank this one just for the entertaining setup.
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05-26-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I have to thank this one just for the entertaining setup.
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Sounds like you want to ref next week's game, huh? If the global warming continues to bury the planet in snow, your services may be needed...
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05-26-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
493 hits and only 16 votes?
C'mon people...grow a pair and pull the trigger!
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I clicked on the thread 475 times. I wonder who the 3 are that clicked on the thread but did not vote?
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05-26-2015, 10:20 AM
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Looks like sm*rtass #2 has a job next week, too.
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05-26-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Looks like sm*rtass #2 has a job next week, too.
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So I guess I am a Royal pain in the a$$.
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05-26-2015, 12:06 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by rollo
... Unfortunately for Dayton fans, the snow has prevented the assigned refs from making the trip so the PA announcer pleads for volunteer officials from the 13,426 undeterred in attendance...and to nobody's surprise, 3 volunteers - N2663R, Figgie and Clayton - put on the stripes and put their knowledge of the Rules to the test.
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I'm still waiting for my paycheck!
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05-26-2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
so the PA announcer pleads for volunteer officials
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And you'll keep waiting...
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05-27-2015, 08:30 AM
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2 hours left to vote...closes at 10:32.
Man-up!
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05-27-2015, 10:58 AM
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3 out of 25 voters got this right...here's the Ruling!
The field goal by Pollard counts and the Ft's awarded as the error is correctable since it happened within the prescribed time limit of Rule 2-12. Dayton shoots the 1-and-1 free throw(s) alone at their end of the court after which play is resumed with a throw-in by WAM, who is entitled to run the end line. (Rule 2-12.1.a, 2-12.5 and 2-12.2)
Rule 2-12, edited to apply to this YMtC, is as follows:
Section 12. Correctable Errors Art. 1. The correctable errors are as follows:
a. Failing to award a merited free throw.
Art. 2. When the officials’ error is made while the game clock is stopped (in this YMtC, the error was made while reporting the foul at which time the clock is stopped), such errors must be recognized and corrected by an official during the first dead ball after the game clock has been started properly (in this case, the first dead ball occurred after Pollard's follow-up dunk) . . . FWIW, had the ball been inbounded by WAM after the dunk, the FT's are no longer 'correctable' because the ball has gone live after being 'dead' and it's now too late. . . . See ya next week when CE80, Gazoo and a yet to be identified ref - thanks to global warming - get put on the man-made hot seat...
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05-27-2015, 10:59 AM
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Sorry, due to the snowstorm I was not in my seat to hear the PA announcers request. But just off the top of my head, I'd say "B". I think it is correctable since play was stopped prior to WAM taking possession of the ball and the clock can be reset.
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05-27-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
3 out of 25 voters got this right...here's the Ruling!
The field goal by Pollard counts and the Ft's awarded as the error is correctable since it happened within the prescribed time limit of Rule 2-12. Dayton shoots the 1-and-1 free throw(s) alone at their end of the court after which play is resumed with a throw-in by WAM, who is entitled to run the end line. (Rule 2-12.1.a, 2-12.5 and 2-12.2)
Rule 2-12, edited to apply to this YMtC, is as follows:
Section 12. Correctable Errors Art. 1. The correctable errors are as follows:
a. Failing to award a merited free throw.
Art. 2. When the officials’ error is made while the game clock is stopped (in this YMtC, the error was made while reporting the foul at which time the clock is stopped), such errors must be recognized and corrected by an official during the first dead ball after the game clock has been started properly (in this case, the first dead ball occurred after Pollard's follow-up dunk) . . . FWIW, had the ball been inbounded by WAM after the dunk, the FT's are no longer 'correctable' because the ball has gone live after being 'dead' and it's now too late. . . . See ya next week when CE80, Gazoo and a yet to be identified ref - thanks to global warming - get put on the man-made hot seat...
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That just seems blatantly unfair. UD was in essence given an extra possession.
When I ref, I will be using my own rulebook.
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05-27-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
That just seems blatantly unfair. UD was in essence given an extra possession.
When I ref, I will be using my own rulebook.
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05-27-2015, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
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I said BLATANTLY unfair not BRITNEYLY unfair.
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05-27-2015, 02:41 PM
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WAM totally got homered. A forest in the wind river range of Wyoming will be scorched to the earth in a violent protest. Only 10 people will witness the event, since Wyoming is so sparsely populated.
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05-27-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I said BLATANTLY unfair not BRITNEYLY unfair.
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05-27-2015, 03:13 PM
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That really does seem totally unfair. UD got a free possession.
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05-27-2015, 03:36 PM
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What if the next dead ball was the final buzzer and UD was down 1 and made both free-throws? Is there a different scenario for end-of-the-game situations?
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05-27-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
What if the next dead ball was the final buzzer and UD was down 1 and made both free-throws? Is there a different scenario for end-of-the-game situations?
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Rule 2.6.9 assigns the duty of approving the final score to the referee...if the official approves the score after the final buzzer, the game is over. In your case, we can assume he didn't OK the final score because he allowed - using the correctable error clause - UD the 2 game winning FT's.
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05-27-2015, 04:41 PM
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This ruling just did not sit well with me plus I relished the opportunity to catch Rollo in a mistake, so I went looking for a ruling more to my liking but did not find it. I did find this in a 2013 NCAA Case Book. Not exactly the same situation but close enough. The WAM coach should have kept quiet, knowing that he was potentially hurting his own team by putting a Flyer on the line because the made basket was going to count.
A.R. 21. After the bonus is in effect, B1 is penalized for holding A1. A1
erroneously is not awarded a free throw. A1 is awarded the ball out
of bounds and completes the throw-in to A2. The coach of Team
A notifies the official scorer that the coach wants to meet with the
official concerning a correctable error. When Team A scores a field
goal, the official scorer sounds the game-clock horn and advises the
official of the coach’s request for the conference. The official recognizes
the correctable error after talking with the coach and official
scorer.
RULING: The field goal by Team A shall count. This error is correctable
because it happened within the prescribed time limit of Rule 2-12.
A1 shall be awarded his or her merited free throw(s) and play shall be
resumed with a throw-in by Team B, who is entitled to run the end line.
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05-28-2015, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
That really does seem totally unfair. UD got a free possession.
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Only in hindsight...
But this is a great scenario because here you have a coach trying to out-smart the system by not immediately asking for the 1-and-1 hoping for a defensive stop instead...and when he doesn't get it, asks for a re-do that he not only gets, but that hurts his team.
It helps to know the rules. And plenty of coaches at all levels don't...as well as their fans.
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