xavier's Jordan Crawford?

UDF4N4LIF3 · #1 09-23-2008, 04:03 PM

Is the Ncaa going to let him play this season dispite Transfering at the end of last season. I don't thin they should allow this move he transfered for a stupid reason and they should make him sit this season out...

XUFAN02 · #2 09-23-2008, 04:47 PM

Although I do not find Jordan's reason 'stupid', I think it would set a slippery slope type precident if Crawford was granted immediate eligibility.

Any unbaised college basketball fan would admit the situation at IU was not your typical coaching change scenario. The program in the beginning of the 2007-2008 season was in great position in the near and distant future. IU had a top 15 team with 2 first round NBA picks, and a good supporting cast. Also they had Terrell Holloway, Tom Prichard, and the #11 recruit in the country SF Devin Ebanks for their 2008 class.

So what did IU have when Jordan Crawford decided to transfer? No Armon Basset, No Eric Gordon, No Eli Homan, No Jamarcus Ellis, No Brandon McGee, No DeAndre Thomas, No Holloway for next season, No Devin Ebanks, a new coach with a bunch of recruiting restrictions, an NCAA investigation, and a potential post season ban. I'm not sure that Crawford signed on for that when he committed to IU, what do you think?

keats '91 · #3 09-23-2008, 05:00 PM

I think rules are to be followed.
Yes it is unfortunate that IU is in such bad shape. And I am sure the kid was wanting to get out. But who determines the scope of 'not normal' or 'did not sign on for this'?

The rules are established. Finding ways to bend them just makes them more grey. Why not let anyone outside the top 20 transfer. Surely a 5-star recruit did not sign on to be on an unranked team.....
Sorry for sarcasm. But if the rules/policies are in place, not sure I see the reason to change them. Otherwise, get rid of the rule/policy.

There were plenty of hardship situations 'back in the day' when players had to sit out Freshman year?

NCkevi · #4 09-23-2008, 05:53 PM

I think x made a big mistake by going after the appeal on their own and not working with the other schools trying to get IU transfers eligible this season

IAFlyer · #5 09-23-2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by keats '91

I think rules are to be followed.
Yes it is unfortunate that IU is in such bad shape. And I am sure the kid was wanting to get out. But who determines the scope of 'not normal' or 'did not sign on for this'?

The rules are established. Finding ways to bend them just makes them more grey. Why not let anyone outside the top 20 transfer. Surely a 5-star recruit did not sign on to be on an unranked team.....
Sorry for sarcasm. But if the rules/policies are in place, not sure I see the reason to change them. Otherwise, get rid of the rule/policy.

There were plenty of hardship situations 'back in the day' when players had to sit out Freshman year?

I am not sure what the argument is. It seems that everyone who's responded thinks Crawford should sit out a year.

XUFAN02 · #6 09-23-2008, 08:16 PM

I think the reason Xavier is not petitioning with UAB and Auburn is because both Bassett and McGee were kicked off the team after the season ended. They were both not in good standing academically, while Crawford was in good standing and still enrolled in the school. I would image they think thier chances are better by not associating Jordan with his teammates who were told to leave IU.

Gazoo · #7 09-24-2008, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by XUFAN02

Although I do not find Jordan's reason 'stupid', I think it would set a slippery slope type precident if Crawford was granted immediate eligibility.

Any unbaised college basketball fan would admit the situation at IU was not your typical coaching change scenario. The program in the beginning of the 2007-2008 season was in great position in the near and distant future. IU had a top 15 team with 2 first round NBA picks, and a good supporting cast. Also they had Terrell Holloway, Tom Prichard, and the #11 recruit in the country SF Devin Ebanks for their 2008 class.

So what did IU have when Jordan Crawford decided to transfer? No Armon Basset, No Eric Gordon, No Eli Homan, No Jamarcus Ellis, No Brandon McGee, No DeAndre Thomas, No Holloway for next season, No Devin Ebanks, a new coach with a bunch of recruiting restrictions, an NCAA investigation, and a potential post season ban. I'm not sure that Crawford signed on for that when he committed to IU, what do you think?

That's the way to stick it out through good times and bad.

Maybe 5 years after he's married and his wife has gained a few pounds he should get divorced, because "he didn't sign on for that." Or (Heaven forbid) maybe they have a child with disabilities--go ahead and divorce, you didn't sign on for that Jordan. Maybe Jordan will get signed by the Golden State Warriors someday. . .

The most important thing is your happiness, Jordan, not the quality of your character.

Do you really think IU will be a cellar dweller for his whole career? By the time he would have been a senior IU would have been right back in the thick of it.

I don't know if Micky Perry was asked to leave the team (Wisconsin) or if he had similar reasons as Jordan. Frankly I'm just disgusted by the state of the world's "me first" attitude.

IAFlyer · #8 09-24-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

That's the way to stick it out through good times and bad.

Maybe 5 years after he's married and his wife has gained a few pounds he should get divorced, because "he didn't sign on for that." Or (Heaven forbid) maybe they have a child with disabilities--go ahead and divorce, you didn't sign on for that Jordan. Maybe Jordan will get signed by the Golden State Warriors someday. . .

The most important thing is your happiness, Jordan, not the quality of your character.

Do you really think IU will be a cellar dweller for his whole career? By the time he would have been a senior IU would have been right back in the thick of it.

I don't know if Micky Perry was asked to leave the team (Wisconsin) or if he had similar reasons as Jordan. Frankly I'm just disgusted by the state of the world's "me first" attitude.

Which is just another reason why he should have to sit out a year.

BallgameJohnny · #9 09-24-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

That's the way to stick it out through good times and bad.

Maybe 5 years after he's married and his wife has gained a few pounds he should get divorced, because "he didn't sign on for that." Or (Heaven forbid) maybe they have a child with disabilities--go ahead and divorce, you didn't sign on for that Jordan. Maybe Jordan will get signed by the Golden State Warriors someday. . .

The most important thing is your happiness, Jordan, not the quality of your character.

Do you really think IU will be a cellar dweller for his whole career? By the time he would have been a senior IU would have been right back in the thick of it.

I don't know if Micky Perry was asked to leave the team (Wisconsin) or if he had similar reasons as Jordan. Frankly I'm just disgusted by the state of the world's "me first" attitude.

wow great analogy. get over yourself.

The kid went to a program most likely due to who was going to be coaching and who he was going to be playing with. Not all kids go to a program because of the School. Sure in a perfect world that would be the case for every kid in the country. But the way college sports are set up today its about how can this school help me get to the money/nba/or if that doesn't work out, a degree. Its not right but its the way it is. Comparing it to marriage or a kid with disabilities is just stupid.

XUFAN02 · #10 09-24-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny

wow great analogy. get over yourself.

The kid went to a program most likely due to who was going to be coaching and who he was going to be playing with. Not all kids go to a program because of the School. Sure in a perfect world that would be the case for every kid in the country. But the way college sports are set up today its about how can this school help me get to the money/nba/or if that doesn't work out, a degree. Its not right but its the way it is. Comparing it to marriage or a kid with disabilities is just stupid.

Good post BallgameJohnny. Like it or not kids go to play for a school a lot of times because of the coach, players on the team, and the coaches ability to develop them into potential NBA talent.

Would Chris Wright be at UD if Oliver Purnel was still the coach? Would Juwan or Josh Benson be going to UD if Chris Wright went to OSU or Texas? Things might have gone differently had BG not gotten Wright.

Bottom line, Crawford should not be granted eligibility this season, but it is foolish to question his reasons for transfering given what he came into at IU, and now what IU has to deal with in the near and distant future.

IAFlyer · #11 09-24-2008, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by XUFAN02

Bottom line, Crawford should not be granted eligibility this season, but it is foolish to question his reasons for transfering given what he came into at IU, and now what IU has to deal with in the near and distant future.

I agree with your summary - it is his choice to leave IU because circumstances have changed significantly. However, there are and should be consequences (either positive or otherwise) to our actions/decisions.

In this case, the consequence (and it was known) is that he has to sit out a year. To vary from that is actually a disservice to him from a life lesson standpoint.

BlueMiniS · #12 09-24-2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by XUFAN02

Bottom line, Crawford should not be granted eligibility this season

Stop agreeing. You should be yelling at the top of your keyboard that he should play this year, then there will be more to argue about.

as_4 · #13 09-24-2008, 11:52 AM

Everything will work out in the end. He will sit out this season, and still have 3 years to play at XU.

Gazoo · #14 09-25-2008, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny

wow great analogy. get over yourself.

The kid went to a program most likely due to who was going to be coaching and who he was going to be playing with. Not all kids go to a program because of the School. Sure in a perfect world that would be the case for every kid in the country. But the way college sports are set up today its about how can this school help me get to the money/nba/or if that doesn't work out, a degree. Its not right but its the way it is. Comparing it to marriage or a kid with disabilities is just stupid.

It's sad that the world is so infected with this attitude that you don't even realize it anymore. "That's just the way college sports are today" and everyone else does it so we have adjusted our societal norms to what the most selfish among us do.

nyc_xu · #15 09-25-2008, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

It's sad that the world is so infected with this attitude that you don't even realize it anymore. "That's just the way college sports are today" and everyone else does it so we have adjusted our societal norms to what the most selfish among us do.

What's so selfish about doing what's best for your career???

Should Oliver Purnell have coached at Dayton until he dropped dead? Matta at Xavier?

Gazoo · #16 09-25-2008, 09:36 AM

Sigh. . .

rollo · #17 09-25-2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by nyc_xu

What's so selfish about doing what's best for your career???

Huh???

Doesn't the definition of selfish have something to do with only considering yourself? Did you think before you typed this ridiculous statement?

Under your standards, D. Brown shooting 45-50 times a game isn't selfish because those 50 ppg would do wonders for his NBA draft status and career. Why hasn't anyone else ever thought of this??? You're a frickin' genius!! May I suggest you call Coach Miller and tell him of this unprecendented epiphany....it may land you a job as his #1 assistant!! I'm sure he'll agree as nobody wants all 5 of their starters to average double figures like X did last year when they won 30 games.

If Brown or Duncan would only have taken 30 or 40 more shots per game, you'd be National Champs!!! Don't you hate that selfish Sean Miller team philosophy of making the extra pass??? Me, too. Is it no wonder the NBA passed on all your X players at this year's draft? They selfishly didn't think about themselves enough!!! I really think you're on to something.

For UD's sake, I hope and pray that X adopts your philosphy of only doing what's best for your career. It'll qualify all of them for jobs at Enron and Fannie May.

nyc_xu · #18 09-25-2008, 10:46 AM

You've gone way off the reservation with your analogy.

The difference is that someone like Brown shooting 50 shots per game would not benefit his career. No one on Xavier's team would benefit individually from shooting 50 shots per game. But really, your analogy is completely different from Crawford's situation, so it's not worth getting into. I was speaking more in the context of seeking new opportunities elsewhere (the last sentence should've indicated as such), but you took it as an absolute and ran with it. And that's ok.

Athletes have the right to transfer from their school, just as schools have the right to renew scholarships on an annual basis. Transferring to a school where you'd find better opportunities is nothing novel...it's no sign of changing times or an indication of some decadent ideal sweeping today's youth. Crawford's entire team left, including the coach he wanted to play for. These were circumstances Crawford likely didn't foresee. His story is just like any other kid who decides to transfer after a coach departs, or his current school comes under increased NCAA scrutiny.

And it's for that last reason that I don't think Crawford should be eligible for the coming season.

rollo · #19 09-25-2008, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by nyc_xu

but you took it as an absolute and ran with it. And that's ok.

The ridiculousness of my analogy was in response and proportion to the ridiculousness of yours.

And that's ok.

UDF4N4LIF3 · #20 09-25-2008, 11:09 AM

Why does everything have to turn into a argument? All that matters is he commited to IU and then transferred. By Ncaa rules he SHOULD be sitting this season out no matter what happend at IU.

Gazoo · #21 09-25-2008, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by nyc_xu

Transferring to a school where you'd find better opportunities is nothing novel...it's no sign of changing times or an indication of some decadent ideal sweeping today's youth. Crawford's entire team left, including the coach he wanted to play for. . . His story is just like any other kid who decides to transfer after a coach departs, or his current school comes under increased NCAA scrutiny.

This is not about _avier. At all.

But you clearly don't get it. I said "It's sad that the world is so infected with this attitude that you don't even realize it anymore" and you responded by saying "Transferring to a school where you'd find better opportunities is nothing novel".

In today's society, no it is not anything novel.

Neither is serial divorce, "looking out for number one", dads absent from the lives of their kids, an absence of tithing, and any number of other selfish behaviors.

They are not novel at all. They're downright commonplace.

AC91 · #22 09-25-2008, 01:43 PM

Even if you use the career analogy, parting ways is not without costs. If playing for a school with better prospects is a better decision, then great. However, the cost of doing so is waiting a year. Sort of like if you go work for a company after being attracted by equity compensation. Then things don't turn out so great (i.e. the guy that hires you leaves, performance isnt what it was supposed to be, et al). You can certainly choose to leave, but any unvested equity uyou do not get to take with you. you just need to make sure that you are going to a situation where you can offset that. Crawford leaving IU simply said that a different environment means more to him then playing this year at IU. Now he (and players like him) want their IU equity back.

I have no idea why this should even be an argument. everyone knows the rules going in. period.

anthonycharles · #23 09-25-2008, 02:24 PM

Again...everyone in this thread AGREES he should sit out a year.

ChampCar · #24 09-25-2008, 03:05 PM

An athlete can transfer from one school to another for any reason, or no reason at all, as far as I'm concerned. Just be man (or woman) enough to abide by the consequences of that decision based on the rules.