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11-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_NY
Let me put it this way, if UD has the best defense in the country and finishes in the bottom third, I get rid of the coach.
If UD has the worst defense in the country and wins every game, the coach has all of the time in the world.
I was impressed with the defense at the end of the game. I can’t remember the last time Dayton has been able to steal the inbound pass and get the last shot. Dayton was able to execute in a clutch situation as a team! I saw situational awareness, court awareness, finding the open man and execution. That will win games.
It would have more comfortable to win by 20, but I wouldn’t know if Dayton as able to handle a clutch situation. Every game isn’t going to be the best game on either end of the floor. On days when the shots aren’t falling, defense will need to be great. On days when everything is going in, the defense won’t have to be great. It is more important to me that the team know how to win. Not being perfect on either side of the floor, but managing the game and the situation.
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Are you saying no matter what happens if the Flyers end up in the bottom third of the A10, you are done with the coach?
No denying, they pulled off a magically finish. Just would not want to rely on that on a regular basis,
I am done with my venting, looking forward, what iffing, etc. Play the games. Win them all with whatever way works. Evaluate the coaching after the Flyer's season is done on April 7.
Go Flyers.
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11-11-2013, 04:31 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by UD_NY
Help me understand what you are saying. If the defense doesn't improve, regardless of results, you would fire the coach?
Dayton could win the A-10 and go to the sweet sixteen, but if we are giving up 90 points a game, you would fire the coach?
Focusing on 50% of the game without realizing that the other 50% is equally important is ignorant.
Making it difficult for the other team to score is only important if you can score as well.
Call it crazy, but I think results are more important then the process. As long as Dayton wins, I don't care how many points they give up.
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Object of the game is to score more points than you opponent. I mentioned this on another thread but we lost games last year when we held the opponent to less than 65 points. In particular, Weber State.
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11-11-2013, 04:57 PM
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Defense Is Important
Yes, the point of the game is to outscore the opponents. What some on here is missing is that if you play good defense, you have a chance every game. Those games where the shot isn't falling, where the offense is out of sync, which happens in this game, you still have a chance of pulling out a win if the defense is there. Defense is about heart, will & discipline. This to me is why the lack of defense is so concerning. At this point, our offense better be on point every game all game, because we haven't shown the ability to make many defensive stops when it is needed.
When UD's offense went away in the 2nd half, their lead would've been somewhat safe if they could play a little defense and make some stops. They couldn't and ended up allowing 45 pts in the 2nd half and needed a miracle for the win. I'm glad the miracle occurred, but Archie needs to fix this asap. I'm not sure how many miracles are left this season.
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11-11-2013, 05:02 PM
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UD_NY
Good point on the end of game coaching. Doubtful that Archie drew things up for Sibert to hit an open corner three off an inbounce steal w/ 1.0 sec left, but there was a lot of coaching adjustments made when UD found themselves down heading into the wire. The doubling down of their big men, the press was executed wonderfully in the last couple of minutes, the decision to go for the steal and not foul right away, etc..
At this point, its all just 1 data entry into the grand scheme of how things turn out for this flyer's squad. Obviously there are things to work on, Archie specifically addressed those issues on the postgame show, both offensively and defensively, so its not like he's unaware. He now has something tangable to show his players. Pre-game Bucky mentioned how when he was at practice the other day, all the players were playing defense with their hands extended straight up, almost like the prior exhibition game had everyone scared of playing defense. Perhaps that was a by-product of what we saw, the refs certainly allowed both teams to get away with a little bumping.
The good news, they got a win.
The bad news, this team isn't perfect, not by any means.
The good news, they have a few days to continue working on their issues and improve a bit before wednesday. The best sign of a coach, any sport, any level is how their teams improve thru the coarse of a season. Archie was dealing w/ multiple injuries/depth issues during each of his 2 seasons. Credit to him that he never used it as an excuse. He's now got a fully stocked roster, can he improve from game 1 to game 2? Can he improve from game 1 to game 30? The starting point appears to be lower than many of us would have hoped for; it will all be forgotten if this team remains undefeated coming home from the island.
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11-11-2013, 06:46 PM
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One more takeaway from the final play: no senior had a part in it. Sophomore (Pierre) forces a high inbound pass...shortest guy on the court (Price, soph) steals the ball, passes to Davis (frosh), who manages to find Sibert (junior) for the game winner. Granted nobody on this board expected this game to come down to the wire, but I'm glad to see our young guys display both ability and bball IQ with the game on the line.
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11-11-2013, 08:46 PM
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Archie will be here for two more years after this one. Bank on it.
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11-11-2013, 08:59 PM
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IPFW won by 29 tonight.
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11-11-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
IPFW won by 29 tonight.
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But it was against a 0-4 team that last year moved up to NAIA
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11-11-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Without getting into the criteria (because I am not sure it is a set list), if he doesn't show the capability of getting better defensive results, I replace him after this year.
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I would evaluate the situation at the end of the year.
If I was in charge, I would be extremely hesitant to replace AM after this year. In order for me to want to replace AM after this year, the team is really going to have to tank this year, and I don't see that happening.
But, I will say again, that it seems people were much more patient with BG years 2-4, when there was no postseason for 3 years in a row.
So, evaluate things at the end of year 4.
Most D1 coaches, IMO, nowadays seem to get at least 4 years, usually 5 years, but there are a few instances of a coach getting fired after only 3 years. The only instances of a coach getting fired after 3 years or less that I can recall are:
Keno Davis-fired after 3 years as Providence's head coach
Todd Lickliter-fired after 3 years as Iowa's head coach
Ron Jirsa-fired after 2 years as Georgia's head coach
Bob Dukiet-fired after 3 years as Marquette's head coach
Originally Posted by NCkevi
But it was against a 0-4 team that last year moved up to NAIA
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IPFW beat Indiana University Kokomo tonight.
Last edited by ud2; 11-11-2013 at 09:56 PM..
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11-11-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Without getting into the criteria (because I am not sure it is a set list), if he doesn't show the capability of getting better defensive results, I replace him after this year.
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Thank god you have absolutely no say in these affairs.
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You will become way less concerned with what other people think of you when you realize how seldom they do.
- David Foster Wallace
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11-11-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
IPFW beat Indiana University Kokomo tonight.
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I heard they got there fast and then they took it slow.
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11-11-2013, 11:48 PM
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Don't you just hate it when your team loses their home opener to an unheralded, unranked opponent?
Oregon State drops opener to Coppin State
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506551
Glad we dodged that bullet . . .
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11-12-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford
One thing I'm interested in seeing: How does IPFW do going forward? As I sat there watching the game, despite UD's lackluster defense I thought to myself, this team (IPFW) isn't that bad; they certainly look better than the 6th (out of 8) place they were picked preseason in their conference. The big guy had talent, no conditioning, but certainly some talent. The tall bald dude w/ more hair on his legs than head had a nice overall game. Gaurds were ok, no great slashers, but good all around shooting ability.
They kind of looked like a Fordham or slightly better from recent A10 play. Did UD make them look like they belonged on that level (which I think that level would finish should finish at or near the top of IPFW's conference) or did they look like that level of team b/c they really are that level of team and were able to take advantage of UD's poor defense.
Another note that Archie commented on and I noticed during the game but hasn't recieved much talk is the offense for a good chunk of the 2nd half. The offense became very, very stagnant, almost a BG type offense where everyone stood around waiting for somebody else to make a play rather than using a true motion offense, moving the ball from player to player and creating a good look. While the defense wasn't great, the offensive play in the 2nd half hurt UD put UD in the spot from being 10 or whatever up at half to down late. If this team isn't going to be great defensively, then they have to be a precision machine on the offensive end all game long, not just in spurts.
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IPFW 90- Indiana, Kokomo 62, they do put up points
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11-12-2013, 11:39 AM
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Talking about replacing AM right now is as absurd as talking about replacing BG after the first game of year 3.
If you don't see what AM is attempting to do at this point, you are blind.
If you didn't see what BG tried to do at this point in his career at UD, you are blind.
Once a coach is established, then call for his head. But after two full seasons...I am beginning to think some UD fans should be catching a short bus at the Mariott to head to the Arena.
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11-12-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
Talking about replacing AM right now is as absurd as talking about replacing BG after the first game of year 3.
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If UD tanks this year, and by tanking I mean somewhere around 5-10 wins maybe, then I don't think such talk would be absurd. But, I agree with the point of your post, there is almost no way I would support replacing AM after this year.
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11-12-2013, 01:49 PM
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I was expecting to see the usual litany of the pros and cons of fouling when you have the lead by 3 with little time left on the clock. IPFW chose to foul Sibert with 6 seconds to go. And the strategy looked pretty good as he missed the first, and then made the second. I think I would have had him miss the second at that point and hope to rebound and kick out for the trey. I guess that is why I am not a coach.... All heck brakes loose on that last possession. I think IPFW did the right thing…. but with the worst possible outcome (for them)….
Last edited by TerryK_67; 11-12-2013 at 01:53 PM..
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11-12-2013, 02:30 PM
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11-12-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67
I was expecting to see the usual litany of the pros and cons of fouling when you have the lead by 3 with little time left on the clock. IPFW chose to foul Sibert with 6 seconds to go.
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I like the fouling strategy when the clock is under 3 seconds. Above that it extends the game by an extra possession. when there is 6 seconds left you cannot do what IPFW went for which was throw the long ball up for grabs.
The biggest mistake IPFW made was allowing UD to go the length of the floor for an uncontested layup in 3 seconds when there was 20 seconds left. You can give up a layup but you have make the opponent burn some clock, not allow them to pick the ball up at hlaf court on the run.
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11-12-2013, 04:16 PM
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I think they fouled too early. I agree with fouling up three but with at most 3 seconds left. I think they fouled at 6.4. We talked about that at the time. I told my buddy they fouled too soon. That leaves too much time for stuff to happen - which it did.
Last edited by longtimefan; 11-12-2013 at 04:22 PM..
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11-12-2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67
I was expecting to see the usual litany of the pros and cons of fouling when you have the lead by 3 with little time left on the clock. IPFW chose to foul Sibert with 6 seconds to go. And the strategy looked pretty good as he missed the first, and then made the second. I think I would have had him miss the second at that point and hope to rebound and kick out for the trey. I guess that is why I am not a coach.... All heck brakes loose on that last possession. I think IPFW did the right thing…. but with the worst possible outcome (for them)….
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Ken Pomeroy studied the numbers earlier this year: http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/web...ling_when_up_3
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04-23-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
UD_NY
Good point on the end of game coaching. Doubtful that Archie drew things up for Sibert to hit an open corner three off an inbounce steal w/ 1.0 sec left, but there was a lot of coaching adjustments made when UD found themselves down heading into the wire. The doubling down of their big men, the press was executed wonderfully in the last couple of minutes, the decision to go for the steal and not foul right away, etc..
At this point, its all just 1 data entry into the grand scheme of how things turn out for this flyer's squad. Obviously there are things to work on, Archie specifically addressed those issues on the postgame show, both offensively and defensively, so its not like he's unaware. He now has something tangable to show his players. Pre-game Bucky mentioned how when he was at practice the other day, all the players were playing defense with their hands extended straight up, almost like the prior exhibition game had everyone scared of playing defense. Perhaps that was a by-product of what we saw, the refs certainly allowed both teams to get away with a little bumping.
The good news, they got a win.
The bad news, this team isn't perfect, not by any means.
The good news, they have a few days to continue working on their issues and improve a bit before wednesday. The best sign of a coach, any sport, any level is how their teams improve thru the coarse of a season. Archie was dealing w/ multiple injuries/depth issues during each of his 2 seasons. Credit to him that he never used it as an excuse. He's now got a fully stocked roster, can he improve from game 1 to game 2? Can he improve from game 1 to game 30? The starting point appears to be lower than many of us would have hoped for; it will all be forgotten if this team remains undefeated coming home from the island.
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To answer my questions following game 1. Yes and Oh Yes!
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