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  #201  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Are we assuming we get NOBODY to replace these guys?
We will get guys, but for the sake of conversation we are only talking about the known commodities for now.
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  #202  
Old 04-12-2017, 01:31 PM
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John Crosby will not be the starting point guard next yer. Period. Darrell Davis will play no substantial minutes at PG next year. Period.
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  #203  
Old 04-12-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
John Crosby will not be the starting point guard next yer. Period.
I wouldn't be so sure. Who is going to take his spot?

Are there any available Freshman PG (not named McKinley Wright) ready to start day 1?

A transfer has to sit.

That only leaves a graduate transfer as a solution. It's the best solution. It's a solution I like very much. But ask yourself - what grad-transfer PGs are available and what happens if we strike out on those guys?

I'll tell you what happens. Crosby starts.
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  #204  
Old 04-12-2017, 01:49 PM
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If Crosby is our Point Guard next year we dont win 15 games. AG will get some immediate contributors in here one way or another. Aint gonna be Crosby
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  #205  
Old 04-12-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I'm guessing DD would play a lot of PG. . . My guess is it would just be DD/JC playing point. Not sure if Trey or Jordan could get minutes here.

Thoughts?
I think you're batty if you think DD will play a lot of PG, or, I will not be watching much UD basketball next year. DD is not a serviceable PG, he is not a backup PG, he is a terrible PG (much like he is a terrible center--it's just not who he is and that's OK).

Trey? Maybe Sam Miller could play some spot time at the PG too. I mean, he can shoot, so he must be a PG.

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
John Crosby will not be the starting point guard next yer. Period. Darrell Davis will play no substantial minutes at PG next year. Period.
I think right at this moment he is the leading candidate and very well may be your starting PG for the whole season.
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  #206  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
AG will get some immediate contributors in here one way or another. Aint gonna be Crosby
I hope you are right. Would love to see us grab a Grad transfer PG (for 2017) and a freshman PG (for 2018).
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  #207  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:48 PM
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Do you guys understand how a hypothetical works? If I ask who is going to play PG if we don't land someone else, your answer can't be "we'll find somebody else."
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  #208  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
John Crosby will not be the starting point guard next yer. Period. Darrell Davis will play no substantial minutes at PG next year. Period.
I also believe this. Now, he may split 60/40 with a newbie, but IMO Crosby will start.
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  #209  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Do you guys understand how a hypothetical works? If I ask who is going to play PG if we don't land someone else, your answer can't be "we'll find somebody else."
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Understand perfectly. Are you Crosby's Dad or AAU coach or something? He's the only PG on the team currently. Of course he starts as of right now. Thats a pointless debate. What im trying to tell you is AG wont let that happen. AG WILL, not MIGHT, WILL bring in a grad transfer or JUCO to play the bulk of the PG minutes.

If Crosby is our PG next year we are so past screwed its not funny
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  #210  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:05 PM
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I Respectfully Disagree

Crosby is the heir apparent to replace Scoochie Smith. What short memories we fans have. Who can forget the anti-London Warren posters and what an improved London Warren we saw
as a Junior. Give the players a chance to develop and do not prematurely label them as failures
before the Program has received a fair return on the investment in their talent.
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  #211  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Understand perfectly. Are you Crosby's Dad or AAU coach or something? He's the only PG on the team currently. Of course he starts as of right now. Thats a pointless debate. What im trying to tell you is AG wont let that happen. AG WILL, not MIGHT, WILL bring in a grad transfer or JUCO to play the bulk of the PG minutes.

If Crosby is our PG next year we are so past screwed its not funny
He's no Scoochie. But he's better than you are giving him credit for.
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  #212  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:21 PM
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I don't care if Crosby starts or not, so long as A: He is greatly improved AND B: we have an alternative in case he doesn't. Bring in someone who can start right away, Grad xfer or JUCO, and let them fight it out for starter. If Crosby wins, that's awesome. If the other guy wins, then that's awesome. Either way, we have a PG worthy of starting and another guy who can come off the bench and provide more than just a blow for the starter.
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  #213  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:24 PM
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Florida won a lot this year with a point guard that made Crosby look like John Stockton. AG can redefine JC's job description to assist his development. He can work on JC's finish at the rim just like Scoochie retooled his drive after way too many misses in the lane as a Frosh and Soph.

Crosby or no Crosby, I still think we are looking at 16 to 18 wins next season. Relax my friend BRob !
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  #214  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:29 PM
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I was one of JC biggest critics, but he looked good at the end of this past season. I have no worries about him being the starter this coming season, but need someone to spell him when needed. Could see some RM in this role.
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  #215  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:30 PM
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I have already said this, but I don't accept next year as a down year. If AM were still here, I would have a reasonable expectation of making the NCAAT. I do not think AG should get a pass for next year because of bitterness over AM leaving and blaming AM's departure/what some perceive as a empty cupboard, for a down year.

I will have to find the page, but verbalcommits.com still lists UD as having a top 2 or top 3 roster star average for the A10. A top 2 or 3 roster star average should mean that UD can compete for an at-large bid next year.

AM made the NIT in his first year despite losing Henton and Gibson and having Gavrilovich as his only incoming and eligible player.

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  #216  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:58 PM
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I agree. I think if we take a year or too step back, that won't help anything. It won't help getting into a better conference, it won't help keep the fans happy, it won't help making the tournament easier, etc. We need to hold at least as close to status quo as possible. Yes, it will be difficult, and maybe we won't achieve it, but that should absolutely be the goal. Acceptance of anything less as a goal should be unacceptable, even if we fall a bit short.
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  #217  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If AM were still here, I would have a reasonable expectation of making the NCAAT. .
Me too. But he isn't. Too many IF's. Nevertheless, I will enjoy the journey.
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  #218  
Old 04-13-2017, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Do you guys understand how a hypothetical works? If I ask who is going to play PG if we don't land someone else, your answer can't be "we'll find somebody else."
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If Dayton starts a D1 football program next year maybe a selling point for the football recruits is that they can get playing time on the basketball team too if we only have 8 guys on scholarship.

Realistically, this conversation is a little premature, but if you want to have it, I would suggest that a walkon might be the backup PG before DD and definitely (with 0 doubt in my mind) before Trey.
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  #219  
Old 04-13-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
If Dayton starts a D1 football program next year maybe a selling point for the football recruits is that they can get playing time on the basketball team too if we only have 8 guys on scholarship.

Realistically, this conversation is a little premature, but if you want to have it, I would suggest that a walkon might be the backup PG before DD and definitely (with 0 doubt in my mind) before Trey.
Dayton already has a D1 football program. Dayton does not have a FBS football program.
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  #220  
Old 04-13-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Dayton already has a D1 football program. Dayton does not have a FBS football program.
C'mon, we're hypothesizing not being realistic, you're ruining the fun.
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  #221  
Old 04-13-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Dayton already has a D1 football program. Dayton does not have a FBS football program.
Dayton has a D3 (no scholarships) football program that plays in the FCS/I-AA where the schools that actually compete nationally can give up to 63 scholarships. You can technically call UD a D1 football team but in reality they aren't.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Dayton has a D3 (no scholarships) football program that plays in the FCS/I-AA where the schools that actually compete nationally can give up to 63 scholarships. You can technically call UD a D1 football team but in reality they aren't.
Well they did make the playoffs 2 seasons ago and actually played pretty well in the game. Granted they probably won't ever get past the second round, but for the most part but they still compete even without scholarships and have beat teams that have the full 63 scholarships.

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  #223  
Old 04-13-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Well they did make the playoffs 2 seasons ago and actually played pretty well in the game. Granted they probably won't ever get past the second round, but for the most part but they still compete even without scholarships and have beat teams that have the full 63 scholarships.
I know they got in a couple years ago. I even watched some of it on ESPN3. I also know that San Diego actually won a game this year and then proceeded to get hammered by NDSU in the 2nd game. I simply don't see calling a team that offers no scholarships an actual FCS team.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I know they got in a couple years ago. I even watched some of it on ESPN3. I also know that San Diego actually won a game this year and then proceeded to get hammered by NDSU in the 2nd game. I simply don't see calling a team that offers no scholarships an actual FCS team.
You can call them anything you want. The NCAA calls them a D1 program.
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  #225  
Old 04-13-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Understand perfectly. Are you Crosby's Dad or AAU coach or something? He's the only PG on the team currently. Of course he starts as of right now. Thats a pointless debate. What im trying to tell you is AG wont let that happen. AG WILL, not MIGHT, WILL bring in a grad transfer or JUCO to play the bulk of the PG minutes.

If Crosby is our PG next year we are so past screwed its not funny
I agree! I believe all pt. guards should be able to shoot 80% from the free throw line and have a great assist to t/o margin. Crosby, even though he is the heir apparent, will probably never achieve the above two lofty standards. I believe we had one coming in with McKinley Wright (and we still might if IU cannot make room). I do not think it is fair to compare Crosby to Scoochie. Scoochie was 77% from the free throw line but he was money at the end of close games (probably 85% to 90%). I don't think Crosby can ever get there! Others on this thread have stated that a better comparison would be with London Warren. Crosby was 44% (12 for 27) from the free throw line in this his sophomore season. Warren was 51% (35 for 68) as a soph, 61% (45 for73) as a jr and 71% (38 for 49) as a sr. I would be surprised if John Crosby got to 71% by his senior year.

Anthony Grant WILL go find a JUCO or grad transfer that will be able to shoot 80% from the line! He played for UD about ten years earlier but GW had a little 5'4" pt guard from 1996-99 that shot 90% by the name of Shawnta Rogers and whenever GW had any sort of lead towards the end of a game the ball would always be in his hands! Opponents would have to foul him and he would go to the line and make it every time!

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Old 04-13-2017, 01:48 PM
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:02 PM
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If they played a full 10 game schedule against those teams, they'd be lucky to finish .500. It is not a level playing field.
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:19 PM
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Based upon the below, isn't it reasonable to believe that a top 3 or top 4 finish is possible and/or is to be expected?

When the A10 is ranked, according to the average number of stars of the players on the roster, UD is currently ranked #3.

This might still include the departing seniors in the average.


http://verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10


Name Mascot Average Stars Official Site

Rhode Island Rams 3.077 gorhody
VCU Rams 3.000 vcuathletics
Dayton Flyers 2.939 daytonflyers

Massachusetts Minutemen 2.905 umassathletics
La Salle Explorers 2.864 goexplorers
Saint Louis Billikens 2.750 slubillikens
Saint Joseph's Hawks 2.513 sjuhawks
George Washington Colonials 2.479 gwsports
Duquesne Dukes 2.381 goduquesne
Richmond Spiders 2.319 richmondspiders
Davidson Wildcats 2.288 davidsonwildcats
Fordham Rams 2.250 fordhamsports
St. Bonaventure Bonnies 2.222 gobonnies
George Mason Patriots 2.183 gomason

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Old 07-10-2017, 10:26 AM
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UD's roster for the 2017-2018 season has the second highest average star rating in the A10, behind #1 Rhode Island, per verbalcommits. Yet, so many people on here are talking about what a big rebuilding year the 2017-2018 season will be.

UD should be a contender for a spot in the NCAAT this year, this should not be a rebuilding year.

The cupboard is most definitely NOT bare.

http://verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10


Rhode Island Rams 3.000 gorhody
Dayton Flyers 2.938 daytonflyers

Saint Louis Billikens 2.897 slubillikens
Massachusetts Minutemen 2.889 umassathletics
La Salle Explorers 2.759 goexplorers
VCU Rams 2.750 vcuathletics
Saint Joseph's Hawks 2.606 sjuhawks
Duquesne Dukes 2.533 goduquesne
Richmond Spiders 2.319 richmondspiders
Davidson Wildcats 2.306 davidsonwildcats
George Washington Colonials 2.296 gwsports
George Mason Patriots 2.278 gomason
St. Bonaventure Bonnies 2.222 gobonnies
Fordham Rams 2.182 fordhamsports

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Old 07-10-2017, 10:42 AM
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So you apparently are making no distinction between a three star freshman and a three star senior, and feel that experience is irrelevant.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
UD's roster for the 2017-2018 season has the second highest average star rating in the A10, behind #1 Rhode Island, per verbalcommits. Yet, so many people on here are talking about what a big rebuilding year the 2017-2018 season will be.

UD should be a contender for a spot in the NCAAT this year, this should not be a rebuilding year.

The cupboard is most definitely NOT bare.

http://verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10


Rhode Island Rams 3.000 gorhody
Dayton Flyers 2.938 daytonflyers

Saint Louis Billikens 2.897 slubillikens
Massachusetts Minutemen 2.889 umassathletics
La Salle Explorers 2.759 goexplorers
VCU Rams 2.750 vcuathletics
Saint Joseph's Hawks 2.606 sjuhawks
Duquesne Dukes 2.533 goduquesne
Richmond Spiders 2.319 richmondspiders
Davidson Wildcats 2.306 davidsonwildcats
George Washington Colonials 2.296 gwsports
George Mason Patriots 2.278 gomason
St. Bonaventure Bonnies 2.222 gobonnies
Fordham Rams 2.182 fordhamsports
I am sure 2 Star Brian Roberts and 2 Star Chris Johnson would agree with using recruiting stars to predict how players will turn out. Unless each of these guys have been evaluated by all the recruiting sites, or have more than the 2 star that ESPN gives guys they didn't even evaluate, these numbers are pointless.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:40 AM
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Stars don't matter nearly as much as balls.
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  #233  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:43 AM
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The cupboard is bare as to experienced senior leadership that is usually needed for success. Certainly that doesn't mean they can't finish in the top 3.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:43 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
Crosby is the heir apparent to replace Scoochie Smith. What short memories we fans have. Who can forget the anti-London Warren posters and what an improved London Warren we saw
as a Junior. Give the players a chance to develop and do not prematurely label them as failures
before the Program has received a fair return on the investment in their talent.
AS - have you actually seen Crosby play the last 2 years? He will improve, no doubt, but the "heir apparent"?

If he starts and heavily contributes, it will be the biggest player turnaround that I have seen in my long lifetime....
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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The Solution

Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
AS - have you actually seen Crosby play the last 2 years? He will improve, no doubt, but the "heir apparent"?

If he starts and heavily contributes, it will be the biggest player turnaround that I have seen in my long lifetime....
is for you to learn more about college hoops.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:28 PM
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The star ratings do not account for seniority. Clearly a team of seniors rated somewhat lower than freshman would be expected to be a stronger team. We are low on seniors and have no idea about point guard leadership. Hard to predict much yet,
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
AS - have you actually seen Crosby play the last 2 years? He will improve, no doubt, but the "heir apparent"?

If he starts and heavily contributes, it will be the biggest player turnaround that I have seen in my long lifetime....
Go lookup LW's freshman and sophomore stats and then come back and talk to me.
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  #238  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
So you apparently are making no distinction between a three star freshman and a three star senior, and feel that experience is irrelevant.
Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
The cupboard is bare as to experienced senior leadership that is usually needed for success.
Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
The star ratings do not account for seniority. Clearly a team of seniors rated somewhat lower than freshman would be expected to be a stronger team. We are low on seniors and have no idea about point guard leadership.
Yeah, but what about the 2014-2015 season?...we had 1 senior, Jordan Sibert...that UD team made the NCAAT.

Or what about the 2015-2016 season?...we again had 1 senior, Dyshawn Pierre...that UD team also made the NCAAT.

We have 1 senior this year, Darrell Davis.

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Old 07-10-2017, 01:07 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Go lookup LW's freshman and sophomore stats and then come back and talk to me.
Thanks for the challenge!

ppg - F/S/J/Sr - 2.4/4.3/4.1/4.5

apg - 2.3/3.6/3.9/2.9

fg% .380/.444/.365/.523

3pa 0.3/0.1/0.1/0.1

ft% .548/.515/.616/.581

stl 0.9/1.3/1.6/2.3

ast 2.5/1.9/4.4/4.1

3 p% .5/.5/0/0

trb 1.7/2.9/2.8/3.5

Games 31/34/35/37

London Warren was a spark that lit up the team but his numbers (not his total contribution) did not improve much from his freshman and sophomore year.

Hey Gazoo - I'm talking to you...
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:58 PM
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Crosby will be fine.

He won't be great. He won't be on an "All-Anything" team and we don't need him to be. A lot of his stuff is mental - that is something that comes with experience. He will improve as the season goes on and he gets that experience. We are in a much better place with him than without.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:57 PM
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Crosby has the quickness, height, size to excel on defense and get mention on the "All Defense Without Scoring Much" consideration.

Now will he? Stay tuned. He and DD could really interrupt some opponent's offensive schemes. They actually have the physical portfolio to do it.

One area where we will have to pick up our act is team steals. Of our 249 steals, 191 of them won't be back next year (Seniors + Mikesell). Caution ahead.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Crosby has the quickness, height, size to excel on defense and get mention on the "All Defense Without Scoring Much" consideration.
And he has an NBA body!
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yeah, but what about the 2014-2015 season?...we had 1 senior, Jordan Sibert...that UD team made the NCAAT.

Or what about the 2015-2016 season?...we again had 1 senior, Dyshawn Pierre...that UD team also made the NCAAT.

We have 1 senior this year, Darrell Davis.
Didn't you just answer your own question? I'm reminded of Lloyd Benson's famous quip...Darrell Davis is no Jordan Siebert (or Dyshawn Pierre).
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
Thanks for the challenge!

ppg - F/S/J/Sr - 2.4/4.3/4.1/4.5

apg - 2.3/3.6/3.9/2.9

fg% .380/.444/.365/.523

3pa 0.3/0.1/0.1/0.1

ft% .548/.515/.616/.581

stl 0.9/1.3/1.6/2.3

ast 2.5/1.9/4.4/4.1

3 p% .5/.5/0/0

trb 1.7/2.9/2.8/3.5

Games 31/34/35/37

London Warren was a spark that lit up the team but his numbers (not his total contribution) did not improve much from his freshman and sophomore year.

Hey Gazoo - I'm talking to you...
Hey UDTradition - I'm talking to you too. The statement was "If he starts and heavily contributes, it will be the biggest player turnaround that I have seen in my long lifetime...."

So, did LW start and heavily contribute in his junior / senior year, or not? Let's assume your answer is "yes, he did."

So was it a big player turnaround? Let's review:

1. LW was not a 3 point shooter. Or any kind of a shooter. Never was, never will be. But his FG% went from 38% / 44% as a freshman / sophomore to 52% as a senior. That's a pretty big turnaround. What do you expect, 60%?!

2. Steals went from 0.9 / 1.3 to 2.3 as a senior. That's basically doubling the number of steals per game, and his minutes barely went up. That's a pretty big improvement. How much of an improvement would you need to say it's a big improvement if not doubling production in the same number of minutes?!

3. Assists per game went from 2.5/1.9 to 4.1 as a senior. That's a pretty big turnaround. Again, he DOUBLED his production from sophomore to senior in about the same number of minutes. Not good enough? You needed triple the number??

I note that you "forgot" to show his A/TO ratio. No worries, I'm here to help.
Freshman: 79 / 60 = 1.31
Sophomore: 65 / 77 = 0.84
Junior: 154 / 66 = 2.33
Senior: 153 / 85 = 1.8
Note that SS had 144 assists last year in 31+ minutes per game, and LW played only about 22 minutes per game and had 150+ assists on a team that couldn't shoot straight!!! Imagine the pace at which you need to pick up assists to get 154 in a season while only playing a MAXIMUM of 21.5 minutes per game as a jr / sr.

4. Rebounds went from 1.7 / 2.9 to 3.5 as a senior. That's a nice improvement since his minutes really didn't go up (and he was fighting CJ, CL, and CW). But he's a guard, so. . .

5. The remaining stats didn't significantly improve, but, they certainly didn't get worse.

So, yes, his contribution went up significantly from his freshman / sophomore seasons to his senior season.

What does this say for JC? He's a different player, but as a PG if his A/TO ratio can improve as much as any player you've seen in your lifetime (LW), his total # of assists can likewise improve, and he continues to shoot well from outside, then JC can be that player.

Last edited by Gazoo; 07-11-2017 at 11:39 AM..
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  #245  
Old 07-11-2017, 01:47 PM
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I'd be happy if Crutcher/Crosby can combine for Price/Scoochie level production from 2014
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  #246  
Old 07-11-2017, 01:59 PM
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I think Darrell Davis is the key to next year. He's a senior and the only guy who's logged any minutes in the back court.

His defense came a long way last year. Offense aside we're basically rebuilding our defense and having a veteran, steady hand is gonna help out the younger guys on perimeter. It's tough to expect great defense out of the freshman.

If he can put 25-30 minutes a game and let the offense come to him versus some of the times he forced it driving last year I think he and the Flyers can have success
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  #247  
Old 08-11-2017, 01:43 PM
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http://www.a10talk.com/dayton-flyers...eason-preview/
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3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Runnin' Rebel For This Totally Excellent Post:
Bob G (08-14-2017), ruechalgrin (08-13-2017), San Diego Flyer (08-11-2017)
  #248  
Old 08-11-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
http://www.a10talk.com/dayton-flyers...eason-preview/
This is a friendly reminder to take a lot of the stuff on A10 Talk with a grain of salt. Most of the "writers" are high school or college kids who have some very "original" thoughts to put it nicely. Here is a link to the contributors to the site. http://www.a10talk.com/contributors/
I stopped reading the site so I can't tell you if this article is good or fair but unless the article is by Mat Shelton-Eide (who also runs a VCU site but actually offers some reasonable thoughts) it's often worthless.
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  #249  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:16 PM
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I liked this review. Thought it was fair. We have a lot to prove with so many newbies to blend. It's going to be a fun season, but will that translate into 20 wins?
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bigudfan (08-12-2017)
  #250  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:38 AM
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Take what you can get with A10 hoops coverage
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