London Warren !!!!

[steve]

Went to the arena last night and the first thing I noticed was the court shrunk down to probably 75 feet.What does that mean?Well,I've been attending UD games a looooong TIME AND WHEN YOU HAVE THOROUGHBREDS ON YOUR TEAM,it makes the court look tiny.These guys are long,athletic,lean,and very very fast.
I have been a HUGE LW fan since he got here.Not as a BB player but ONLY as an energy guy.Well,after watching the transformation,right before my eyes,this kid looks like a real good BB "PLAYER" RIGHT now.He is a much better dribbler,as he heeps the ball under his waist this year.He is sooo much more confident going to his left WITH a bit of a cross-over.He has developed a really really nice jump stop and a little runner/floater as well.With the added muscle/strength LW has put on,as well as his amazing athletic ability,he was able to get that shot off at will.People may say "well,it was only a D3 team",but guards are guards anywhere you go and what separates good-to-great teams and small/mid level teams-to MAJOR TEAMS is the BIGS.

LW took a 3 point shot and I have always maintained that even if the kid is shooting them like there is a rattlesnake attached to the ball,he still needs to shoot them,as it is very tough to play half-court offense 5 on 4.Well,even the 3 he shot last night looked like a real jump shot with lots of rotation and arc.I was impressed with that.His FT shooting looks 100% better than last year,both in form and results.

LW,obviously,has put alot of effort,heart, and time into becoming a real good BB player and,for the first time,I am really proud of him and that he is a Flyer.Yes,it was only an ex game,but against a real quality D3 team,but LW looks like he really wants the starting PG spot and has a coolness and confidence.Yes,he still made a couple lazy passes and missed KH a couple times on the low blocks,but I am glad this kid is a Flyer,and I would not want the Flyers to have to play against him.
KUDOS to Mr.Warren on becoming a dam good BB player.

[31770]

I can agree to alot of this... I too have always like LW and think most everyone is to hard on him... he wasn't really a 4 star recruit, but was forced into the PG position as a freshman and expected to perform as a 4 star... he has always brought TONS of energy and great D, lots of hustle...
but i have to make 2 comments: 1) not so sure we can say LW has developed a jump shot...
2) I think you may be either tripping or contridicting yourself...

Originally Posted by steve guards are guards anywhere you go and what separates good-to-great teams and small/mid level teams-to MAJOR TEAMS is the BIGS.

soooooo..... it doesn't matter that LW is good/better cause he is a gaurd, and all that really matters is the BIGS, AND great gaurds like B-Rob are just gaurds and aren't any different than a Div III gaurd..?

ANyway, if LW can keep this kind of performance up, we will smash our way into the dance with a high seed...

[steve]

Originally Posted by 31770 I can agree to alot of this... I too have always like LW and think most everyone is to hard on him... he wasn't really a 4 star recruit, but was forced into the PG position as a freshman and expected to perform as a 4 star... he has always brought TONS of energy and great D, lots of hustle... but i have to make 2 comments: 1) not so sure we can say LW has developed a jump shot... 2) I think you may be either tripping or contridicting yourself... soooooo..... it doesn't matter that LW is good/better cause he is a gaurd, and all that really matters is the BIGS, AND great gaurds like B-Rob are just gaurds and aren't any different than a Div III gaurd..? ANyway, if LW can keep this kind of performance up, we will smash our way into the dance with a high seed...

The shot he has developed is light-years ahead of last year.I think it is a sucess.Now,has he proven that he will hit the open shot?Well,no he has not,but I've always maintained that the definition of success is the distance one comes from failure,and if you look at the cartoon/comical attempt by LW to even shoot the ball last year and compare it to last night on his lone long-range attempt it is no comparison.

I have always maintained that LW does not necessarily have to hit the 3-point shot,as much as he MUST take that shot.Even if it only commits the defender to take a step or two towards him,this can open up the middle just a bit for more offensive flow.If you remember last year,the 5th defender against LW was almost doubling down in the low post as he was so far off of LW.

On your point #2 : I was merely playing devils advocate for those nay-sayers that sday "well.it was only a D3 team,blah,blah,ect..".The difference in even D1 talented teams versus mid-major/smaller D1 teams is mainly in the amount of BIGS that these teams have.The Davidsons/Butlers,etc. of the world do not have the BIGS that NC/UCLA/Georgetown have either in talent or numbers.Do you agree with that??
The reason alot of those teams lacking the BIGS can hang with elite teams for much of a 40 minute game is because of guard play.Look at the NCAA tourney and the upsets.Teams with a couple really good guards can handle the ball for much of the shot clock,minimize turnovers,and hit FT's,and those are a recipe that can spell upset.

There are many talented guys even playing in D2/D3 that are juniors/seniors that were not good enough in HS to be warranted D1 schollys but ,after maturing and gaining experience in college,alot of those guys could play at D1 schools later on.Look at Capital last night.Look at Findlay last year.Both those schools shot the lights out against UD and I think it is safe to say that,up until last night,there is/was no way even a D1 team like UD could hang with quality shooters like that.I left the game last year after UD beat findlay wishing we had shooters like they had.

[BallgameJohnny]

I think you are going a little overboard after the first exhibition game. If anything I think Lowery showed he will be getting more and more PT.

[steve]

Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny I think you are going a little overboard after the first exhibition game. If anything I think Lowery showed he will be getting more and more PT.

Not going overboard at all but the LW last night was a complete 360 from last year.Will he improve every game?Will he be the man every game?Hell no,he won't.In fact,we will still see some of the same mistakes
from last year.We saw some last night.But,I believe,the kid will be alot more polished with the ball in his hands,from an offensive standpoint, than he was last year.

[Canonball]

One thing LW MUST learn to do is kicking the ball back out to the trailers. There was a beautiful sequence in the game where Marcus was bringing the ball up on a break ... instead of forcing the ball all the way to the bucket he hit Fab trailing .... Fab was squared up, ready for the ball and drained it. In my opinion LW still needs more court awareness and less tunnel vision going to the basket. It's almost like he once he decides that's where he's going nothing else exists except the region around the bucket. I think we've got several players that are going to be able to stroke it from outside this year. The nice thing is that once you prove that you can hit outside, and LW proves that he's aware of the trailers ... defenses can't collapse on you and the center of the key is going to be open for some of his AWFULLY quick moves to the basket (for instance last nights crossover and tear drop he hit in the lane).

He's looking much better out of the gate and it's promising at this point.

The nice thing is that at this point I would have no problem with either Lowery or Thomas subbing in. I thought all three looked pretty solid. The main difference is that Thomas is looking to pass (less dribbling around) than the other two, and is a slower player, which is perfectly fine.

[udflyerhoops2]

I could be wrong, but I believe London's turnover was due to Devin not being ready to receive the pass in the paint. I've said this before. Many of London's turnovers are because of him being out of control, but not all of them. Most were due to balls going out of bounds on passes into the lane that were lost by inattentive receivers. His assist to turnover would have been much better also had the shooters who did catch the passes would have knocked down the shots. How many times did London make a great dribble drive and hit an open man (BROB included) and they didn't knock down the open 3? I think this season we will see between 7-8 assists per game this year.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by steve I have always maintained that LW does not necessarily have to hit the 3-point shot,as much as he MUST take that shot.Even if it only commits the defender to take a step or two towards him,this can open up the middle just a bit for more offensive flow.If you remember last year,the 5th defender against LW was almost doubling down in the low post as he was so far off of LW.

I think you need to make 30% to keep the defense honest. If I am guarding someone who is a 15% three point shooter I would yell at him that he is open every time he touches the ball. "Shoot London you're open" "Shoot London you're open"

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 I could be wrong, but I believe London's turnover was due to Devin not being ready to receive the pass in the paint. I've said this before. Many of London's turnovers are because of him being out of control, but not all of them. Most were due to balls going out of bounds on passes into the lane that were lost by inattentive receivers. His assist to turnover would have been much better also had the shooters who did catch the passes would have knocked down the shots. How many times did London make a great dribble drive and hit an open man (BROB included) and they didn't knock down the open 3? I think this season we will see between 7-8 assists per game this year.

I think you are mostly right, but the pass from LW to DS was a tad too long and almost put Searcy into the cheap seats. I don't fault LW though because I could see those two pulling off that play dozens of times this season. Some mistakes are tolerable.

One that is not tolerable in my book is hand checking on defense. That's as illegal as double dribble. Can't even do it in the Pro's. We had three of those last night. You can use your hands (and should) to "feel" your man when he doesn't have the ball, but once you are on the man with the ball--no hands.

[AFflyer]

Ill agree to disagree. Hand checking is a foul but a lot of times is over looked. Last night it was being called so you have to watch it but if the refs arnt enforcing it then let em play aggresive.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer One that is not tolerable in my book is hand checking on defense.

What gets me more is the illegal screen and off the ball fouls called by lazy D.

I know this thread was discussing LW, but they need to kick KH in the nutz every time he fouls off the ball. We need him available in the rotation of big men. He had 4 of his 6 fouls off the ball in the red/blue game and a couple last night. Aggressive fouls...good. Non-aggressive mental/lazy fouls, not good.

[Canonball]

I know it's a different game entirely ... but that is what makes Bruce Bowen a "great" defender in the pros. It irritates me to no end. If they would call the penalty he would be average at best.

[steve]

Originally Posted by UDBrian I think you need to make 30% to keep the defense honest. If I am guarding someone who is a 15% three point shooter I would yell at him that he is open every time he touches the ball. "Shoot London you're open" "Shoot London you're open"

30% would be nice but the key term you used is "guarding".Last year they did not even guard the guy at all.This killed the entire half-court offense when LW was at the point.By him showing an improved stroke no doubt the kid can hit 20-25% which will require some attention.

[steve]

Originally Posted by shocka43 What gets me more is the illegal screen and off the ball fouls called by lazy D. I know this thread was discussing LW, but they need to kick KH in the nutz every time he fouls off the ball. We need him available in the rotation of big men. He had 4 of his 6 fouls off the ball in the red/blue game and a couple last night. Aggressive fouls...good. Non-aggressive mental/lazy fouls, not good.

I'd like to think that alot of KH fouls last year out top were because of him being way too heavy and out of position.Just by moving his feet better,like he did last night,will be an improvement for him defensively.

[hawkoooo]

i am very excited to see london playing at the high level that he is capable of. what i am even more excited about is the pg play as a whole. lowery was money from 3 land last night. it matters not what competetion he was facing, becuase hitting the open 3 will be more valuable than anything for this team.

what is generally seen in the two major college sports is the ability of the lower level programs to score (i.e. davidson in hoops or boise st. in fball), crush their weaker conference foes, and hang with the big guys by lighting up the scoreboards. what seperates a contender from a pretender though, is the ability to play defense and play BIG (whether it be your froncourt in bball or o/d line in fball). dominating the line of scrimmage in my mind is very similar to dominating down low. the thing that excites me about this flyer team and gregories coaching philosophies is that they learned from the bottom up. defense has been forced on them from day 1 and it determines their PT (to an extent). some of our players in the past were losing their offense while struggling to be solid on D (with the exception of BRob, who did the oppisite). this years team and the teams to come seem to be much more capable on offense, like non-bcs schools usually are, but are also BIG, freakishly athletic, and play good defense.

this is all moot though, if pg play is not up to par. i firmly believe that these three can get it done but we have a long way to go. if they can rally the troops and control the game at their pace without being too careless with the ball, this team will be special.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by AFflyer Ill agree to disagree. Hand checking is a foul but a lot of times is over looked. Last night it was being called so you have to watch it but if the refs arnt enforcing it then let em play aggresive.

I'll meet you half way on that one. Hand checking is often overlooked off the ball, but a player who tries to get away with it almost always will not when the clock is winding down. And then it's called at a time when the team can least afford it.

One call = shame on the ref.

Two calls= shame on you.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by Canonball One thing LW MUST learn to do is kicking the ball back out to the trailers. There was a beautiful sequence in the game where Marcus was bringing the ball up on a break ... instead of forcing the ball all the way to the bucket he hit Fab trailing .... Fab was squared up, ready for the ball and drained it. In my opinion LW still needs more court awareness and less tunnel vision going to the basket. It's almost like he once he decides that's where he's going nothing else exists except the region around the bucket. I think we've got several players that are going to be able to stroke it from outside this year. The nice thing is that once you prove that you can hit outside, and LW proves that he's aware of the trailers ... defenses can't collapse on you and the center of the key is going to be open for some of his AWFULLY quick moves to the basket (for instance last nights crossover and tear drop he hit in the lane). He's looking much better out of the gate and it's promising at this point. The nice thing is that at this point I would have no problem with either Lowery or Thomas subbing in. I thought all three looked pretty solid. The main difference is that Thomas is looking to pass (less dribbling around) than the other two, and is a slower player, which is perfectly fine.

agree with this post. thomas brings a more controlled presence, which is a good contrast to the other 2 pg's . it's a good compliment.

i saw quite a bit of good things last night. if things break our way, could be a great season