Nothing much changed really, except..

[San Diego Flyer]

our collective egos took a serious hit. We still have to win the two home games to be squarely on the bubble. Yes, it ain't fun when we get punked like that, but the St Joes contest is not the end-game. UMass is a must at home. And Richmond as well.
Can't believe we will play two games in a row that p*ss poor on offense AND defense at the same time.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[ruechalgrin]

All that happened tonight, was the same thing that has happened the last 25 years or so.

Dayton had a bubble game on the road and lost.

Xavier had a bubble game on the road and won.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[VirgM]

Hope the team is real proud of themselves with their lack of effort two games in a row. They often thank the fans for their undying (are we dying now?) support. Just when wins are critical they perform poorly and sh@t on their loyal fans. They certainly know how important each game is and yet they don't even show up. I can live with losses but when they lose because of a lack of effort, that's pretty sad.

[Buster Goode]

They were lost tonight. Absolutely lost from the tip off. Mind boggling how that happens right now. I hope Archie had a good quiet cry in the bathroom stall afterwards.

[Chris R]

This might sound blasphemous, but why not just beat SJU and those other games too and play yourself off the bubble going into the A10 Tourney. Rather then push the homework to the 11th hour, just get it done now. Why make it tighter and more precarious than it needs to be. If you are truly NCAA worthy, you go out and take care of business.

In the last six games, we beat everyone we were supposed to beat, with the possible exception of St. Bonnie and even that game we should have won as we are the better team. We beat GW when they were decimated with injuries -- at home no less. But in the six games, there has been a lot of suspect basketball and late-game dramatics to prevent it from being 4-2 or worse. The only game we rocked it long and hard was at Mason and well, that was George Mason.

We haven't beaten anyone in this league that's worth two shakes when they were full strength. We are 0-6 vs the Top-5 teams in the league.

The performance tonight at SJU is pretty much on par with most other performance at SJU in the last decade -- no better no worse. Which means uncompetitive.

I dont think this team has the luxury of pushing the homework away and procrastinating. Tonight was a prime opportunity to win a bubble game against a bubble team that stole one from you on your home court. The SLU game is a guaranteed loss. Which leaves us having to win the remaining two at home and then doing some damage in the A10 tourney.

Quit trying to do the BARE MINIMUM.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Chris R Quit trying to do the BARE MINIMUM.

Yup...the motto..

"UD basketball...Doing just enough to get by and appease fans since 1968."

[SeasonTicketFan]

Common theme in this years losses to the top A10 teams.
1. Opponents block a number of shots. Dayton's offense struggles against tall shot blockers
2. Jordan Sibert has a poor offensive showing
3. When offense goes south, defense follows and goes south. No using defense to start offense. St. Joe offense looked like high school layup drill last night

Two years ago UD gave up over 50 points in the second half at St. Joes. Like last night, their interior players dominated the game totally.

[longtimefan67]

I don't think we're a bubble team at all; we are in....the NIT...
Posted via Mobile Device

[UD90]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer our collective egos took a serious hit. We still have to win the two home games to be squarely on the bubble. Yes, it ain't fun when we get punked like that, but the St Joes contest is not the end-game. UMass is a must at home. And Richmond as well. Can't believe we will play two games in a row that p*ss poor on offense AND defense at the same time.

I wish that this were just a loss to Saint Joes. We would be fine, but this was a beat down in a semi-hyped nationally televised game. I am a glass half full guy, but the reality is now that we may need to win the next three games to offset the "style" points in this one. I expected to lose by single digits in this one, but this was the worse loss since Buffalo at the arena a few years back. I thought we were past this.

Did anyone think we looked like a hungry tournament team fighting for their bubble lives last night?

What would be be saying if we watched another bubble team get destroyed like that?

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[TerryK_67]

The NIT is all bubble teams that did not get in the important tournament..... Just what makes you think we are in that group? Would could easily lose out.... that would = no NIT!

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Yup...the motto.. "UD basketball...Doing just enough to get by and appease fans since 1968."

I like that. Also, could try and work in "Doing Less With More" since all the investments in the past ten years.

[Bat'71]

The lack of effort and discipline exhibited in last night's game is what is really disheartening, IMHO. After the type of season that these kids have been through, the ups and downs (along with the lessons that should have been learned during that time as it pertains to defensive effort and ball movement) and the importance riding on this game, to have the team come out and simply lay down is disgraceful. We showed no energy, no semblance of team cohesion and no heart; losing is one thing, not even trying to compete is another. I hate to say it, but, if AM can't motivate the team to give a better effort than what was on display last night in a game of major importance, what comfort can anyone take that we would be competitive in the post season (should a miracle happen and we get there) and not get embarrassed on National TV...better to sit home. UGH!

[TerryK_67]

I am just not buying that these guys are not trying and hustling…… This board acts all humiliated and embarrassed, but that is just ridiculous. We are fans… we did nothing to be humiliated about, nor embarrassed about. I would guess that the players are taking this a whole lot worse than us fans. Those words may describe their feelings… I really don’t know. But, IMHO, the players try their ****edest to do what the coaches want them to do. When it is not working we just don’t seem to have a plan B… I guess the coaches are just telling them to do it better….. The coaches looked entirely lost last night….. They had no answer… Given that, what do you expect from the players..

[Sea Bass]

The reason they lost is that the focus to win was not there. The were going to have to be more focused than any game all year to win on Hawk Hill. However, as the start the last two games indicated the focus of this team was waning. They had won 6 in a row and the players were content with that and not willing to pay the price entailed by even more attention to detail. It was the mental toughness aspect that had been slipping and last night they paid the price for that.

Having watched this team all year I am skeptical that they will come out with the focus necessary to beat UMass. This team seems to need to get kicked in the nuts more than once before they decide it hurts.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[UACFlyer]

For some reason Dayton/Miller is not attracting sufficiently talented players. We are being beaten by teams with better players....not because our players aren't trying or the coaching is bad.

How/why can SLU, SJU, etc., recruit players that are so obviously better than ours?

You win with very good players.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer For some reason Dayton/Miller is not attracting sufficiently talented players. We are being beaten by teams with better players....not because our players aren't trying or the coaching is bad. How/why can SLU, SJU, etc., recruit players that are so obviously better than ours? You win with very good players.

Sometimes you look bad because your opponent can do things you can't do. When Aroldis Chapman throws a ball 100+ miles past a decent hitter, they look foolish and inept.

Dayton has some good players, but we the team is flat out outmanned strength and leaping ability in the middle and has some major weakness at the guard position.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer For some reason Dayton/Miller is not attracting sufficiently talented players. We are being beaten by teams with better players....not because our players aren't trying or the coaching is bad. How/why can SLU, SJU, etc., recruit players that are so obviously better than ours? You win with very good players.

Did you listen to the CBS announcers? One of them called the Flyers out several times for lack of effort. When was the last time you ever.....EVER....heard something like that? It was obvious!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[LI Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R We haven't beaten anyone in this league that's worth two shakes when they were full strength. We are 0-6 vs the Top-5 teams in Quit trying to do the BARE MINIMUM.

[QUOTE=SeasonTicketFan;342010]Common theme in this years losses to the top A10 teams.
1. Opponents block a number of shots. Dayton's offense struggles against tall shot blockers
2. Jordan Sibert has a poor offensive showing
3. When offense goes south, defense follows and goes south. No using defense to start offense. St. Joe offense looked like high school layup drill last night

Here's a thought: Maybe, just maybe, we're not that good? Maybe the tournament in Maui was an anomaly? Consider some of the following:

1. We were picked for 7th in the conference and that's where we are at.
2. There will be no Flyer on an All Conference team. (1st or 2nd team)
3. There will be no Flyer on the all Freshman team, just like last year.
4. Our two 4 star transfers seem to disappear against better A-10 teams.
5. Lastly - Player development ??? Look at JR, DP, & DS - have you been impressed with their growth this year?

[steve]

Originally Posted by bobber Did you listen to the CBS announcers? One of them called the Flyers out several times for lack of effort. When was the last time you ever.....EVER....heard something like that? It was obvious!!!!!!! Posted via Mobile Device

Did you watch the actual game?And who the hell again are these announcers and exactly what type of understanding of the game and vision do they have that's so unique...UD out rebounded SJU by 13 and had 21 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS ! YES 21 ! That's called EFFORT.. They simply are not good enough, can't jump high enough, and aren't strong enough to make a difference against much better talent and teams. When you try hard and continually flail and fail it deflates a team.......Still, no excuse for not getting back on D a few times on breaks but they tried hard, very hard, and failed both players AND coaches......

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[San Diego Flyer]

For whatever reason, this game started with some key players literally walking around when their man didn't have the ball. The weakside help was slow if not nonexistant. There was precious little anticipation on defense. We were a full second slower than St Joes from the tipoff.

This can be termed "lack of effort", but I would choose "lack of preparation and focus" (hello Archie).

I saw certain players busting their balls but getting very little coordinated help. From the viewers standpoint, all it takes is one guy to fall asleep and we are playing 4 on 5. And it
seemed like it happened every possession where one or two of our guys took the play off.

Even our Senior leader alternated between periods of extra effort and then totally disengaged.

I just don't see that version of the Flyers showing up for UMass and Richmond at home.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[Alberto Strasse]

is average at best in the Atlantic 10 this year. It would be an upset if they were to win any of the remaining games against stronger conference opponents. The problem rests with fan expectations based upon the size of UD arena and the zeal of the following. This UD team has serious limitations in talent, effort and methodology. They are not an NCAA team by merit even though the door is not yet closed on that possibility. A fine senior season by DMO notwithstanding the season is another chapter in UD's A-10 disappointment. Perhaps the N.I.T. will attract some fan interest.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by LI Flyer . Lastly - Player development ??? Look at JR, DP, & DS - have you been impressed with their growth this year?

Don't forget about our freshman who also aren't developing.

Pollard? Few minutes and no FT touch.
Davis...took him 25+ games to hit a 3.
Smith...glimpses of ability but mostly lost.

And I hardly expect next season's freshman class to contribute either.

If Sibert and Sanford can't be considered a 4th year Junior or 5th year Senior because of playing time issues at OSU and Gtown, then I guess this year's freshman will be the same next season....right?

UGH!

[UD90]

Originally Posted by steve Did you watch the actual game?And who the hell again are these announcers and exactly what type of understanding of the game and vision do they have that's so unique...UD out rebounded SJU by 13 and had 21 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS ! YES 21 ! That's called EFFORT.. They simply are not good enough, can't jump high enough, and aren't strong enough to make a difference against much better talent and teams. When you try hard and continually flail and fail it deflates a team.......Still, no excuse for not getting back on D a few times on breaks but they tried hard, very hard, and failed both players AND coaches......

Normally I would call 21 Offensive Rebounds effort, but when you miss 17 3's that number is going to get inflated. They looked like they did against VCU and URI. It looked like they quit.

I will give them this - traveling to Duquesne Saturday and then SJU Tuesday is a tight turn around. They better beat UMASS Saturday.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[rollo]

I'm teaching game theory this week and it couldn't be more appropriate after last night's flop. Game theory, simply explained, is the application of risk to decision making. Here's an basketball example about playing defense against a 2 or a 3:



What it shows is that there are quantitative methods that can assist in game time decision making. In baseball this concept is used (over-used, too!) It's much harder to utilize in basketball because of the speed of the game, but if the coaches pick and choose certain situations they can at least be prepared for them.

Defend the 3 or the 2?
Zone or man-to-man?
Who to foul (and who NOT to foul) in last 2 minutes...

Why am I bringing this up? Because IMHO, Archie is making decisions on the fly with no data to back up his actions. And it's why this team looks so lost, so often. He either has the wrong combination of players on the court or he has the wrong offensive/defensive sets against the other team's players and strategy.

For every move, you need a predetermined counter-move...that's just the reality of basketball. I see other teams making moves and rarely see us counter their moves....and constantly wonder 'why?'. Is it because he's stubborn? Or doesn't have any predetermined, rehearsed and practiced options?

http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/20.../#.Uw4IL_Mo6po

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo Don't forget about our freshman who also aren't developing. Pollard? Few minutes and no FT touch. Davis...took him 25+ games to hit a 3. Smith...glimpses of ability but mostly lost. And I hardly expect next season's freshman class to contribute either. If Sibert and Sanford can't be considered a 4th year Junior or 5th year Senior because of playing time issues at OSU and Gtown, then I guess this year's freshman will be the same next season....right? UGH!

Basketball is simple compared to FB and BB. To win in BB you've got to get the ball through the hoop.

Last night UD did that on ~ 30% of its attempts and SJU did it on almost 60%of its attempts....that's 60%!

Conclusion: Dayton shot the ball very poorly...SJU's did it incredibly well. Re SJU, this isn't just about UD's defense. When given a wide open shot the shooter still has to make the shot....it's not a gimmie.

On Sat I watched SMU beat UConn. SMU shot close to 50% while UC shot 30%. UC had more than its share of open shots...but missed them. End of story.

When was the last time the U of Dayton had a player that could be counted on to make his shots? Quite a while. We don't have a player that will make an opponent pay if they give him open shots.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[Beatty Town Coach]

Alberto Strasse,

Answer me this: by "Methodology", do you mean coaching?

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by bobber Did you listen to the CBS announcers? One of them called the Flyers out several times for lack of effort. When was the last time you ever.....EVER....heard something like that? It was obvious!!!!!!! Posted via Mobile Device

Unfortunately, the last time I heard that was just a few weeks ago when Steve Wolf called out Dayton's lack of effort in the @ Rhode Island game.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer For some reason Dayton/Miller is not attracting sufficiently talented players. We are being beaten by teams with better players....not because our players aren't trying or the coaching is bad. How/why can SLU, SJU, etc., recruit players that are so obviously better than ours? You win with very good players.

SJU might be more talented than Dayton, but not THAT much more talented. Not a 30 point blowout more talented. This team's biggest weakness is defense. Preparation and effort can make up for a lot of deficiencies on defense.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UDBaby]

Was there to watch the slaughter in person...drove all the way down from LI (I blame myself for this).

The opening minutes was like watching a 3on2 / 2on1 drill. Zero team effort. Some individual players made sporadic attempts to compete but for the most part, they sucked and didn't look like they really cared to fight their way back.

I left St. Joe's gym...and yes it is a gym....thinking that we could play that team 10 times on a neutral court and they would beat the pants off of us 7 or 8 times.

No heart......

[Sea Bass]

Defense is about focus and effort. Six inches can me alot (Majerus had a more colorful way of referring to length of being out of position) and it takes attention to that detail to be successful especially against a good team. This team does not have that.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer SJU might be more talented than Dayton, but not THAT much more talented. Not a 30 point blowout more talented. This team's biggest weakness is defense. Preparation and effort can make up for a lot of deficiencies on defense.

....at the Arena UD and SJU battled evenly. Just four weeks ago. Since that time the Flyers have been hot.

The guys were on a roll,....winning is much more fun than losing,...they had reason to be confident,....the guys understood their situation as a bubble team.....they understood how important the SJU game was.

Explaining what happened as "lack of effort" does not seem consistent with human nature. Dayton had every reason in the world to be hyper with effort. Why would they lack effort? Teams that are down may lack effort. Teams that have little to play for may lack effort. Teams that have everything on the line and are confident lacking effort? That doesn't compute.

Your opponent may make a team "appear" to lack effort...but that's different. UD's rebounding margin isn't consistent with lack of effort. rebounding is all about effort.

One team shot the lights out and the other team could hardly buy a basket. That's what accounts for a 26 point blow out. SJU may be the better team...probably is. And they probably win at home against UD no matter what....but by single digits were it not for the very large descrepancy is FG percentage.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Explaining what happened as "lack of effort" does not seem consistent with human nature. Dayton had every reason in the world to be hyper with effort. Why would they lack effort? Teams that are down may lack effort. Teams that have little to play for may lack effort. Teams that have everything on the line and are confident lacking effort? That doesn't compute.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by UACFlyer One team shot the lights out and the other team could hardly buy a basket.

Not hard to shoot lights out when you are allowed a layup line to the basket possession after possession...

[Alberto Strasse]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Alberto Strasse, Answer me this: by "Methodology", do you mean coaching?

is the leadership function on the team to include staffing and preparation in addition to game coaching.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 The NIT is all bubble teams that did not get in the important tournament..... Just what makes you think we are in that group? Would could easily lose out.... that would = no NIT!

Before last night's game two different sites had us as a #1 seed in the NIT. We would have to lose a lot of games the next couple weeks to drop out completely.

[rollo]

If our competition for those last 4 spots keep winning, as Minnesota did last night against Iowa (and _avier won, too), we can continue to drop regardless of what we do against UMass and Richmond.

UD has no margin for error, and a 26 point disaster loss isn't going to help.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Not hard to shoot lights out when you are allowed a layup line to the basket possession after possession...

I agree our defense was terrible and we gave up a lot of layups, but when we backed off a little they also shot lights out from three point land, 9/15, 60%. We ran into a buzz saw last night.

[purpieschu]

Originally Posted by rollo I'm teaching game theory this week and it couldn't be more appropriate after last night's flop. Game theory, simply explained, is the application of risk to decision making. Here's an basketball example about playing defense against a 2 or a 3: What it shows is that there are quantitative methods that can assist in game time decision making. In baseball this concept is used (over-used, too!) It's much harder to utilize in basketball because of the speed of the game, but if the coaches pick and choose certain situations they can at least be prepared for them. Defend the 3 or the 2? Zone or man-to-man? Who to foul (and who NOT to foul) in last 2 minutes... Why am I bringing this up? Because IMHO, Archie is making decisions on the fly with no data to back up his actions. And it's why this team looks so lost, so often. He either has the wrong combination of players on the court or he has the wrong offensive/defensive sets against the other team's players and strategy. For every move, you need a predetermined counter-move...that's just the reality of basketball. I see other teams making moves and rarely see us counter their moves....and constantly wonder 'why?'. Is it because he's stubborn? Or doesn't have any predetermined, rehearsed and practiced options? http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/20.../#.Uw4IL_Mo6po

I agree completely. If I was coaching the Flyers last night I can't imagine not trying something different to get a better result. I might not have known what to do but I sure as heck would have tried something. I feel like this is deja vu. I had the same frustrations with
BG. The only difference is BG knew how to coach defense.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I agree our defense was terrible and we gave up a lot of layups, but when we backed off a little they also shot lights out from three point land, 9/15, 60%. We ran into a buzz saw last night.

You can still defend the three though. Giving up open threes is no better than giving up open layups. The buzz saw was the Flyer defense and has been in most of the losses this season.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by rollo If our competition for those last 4 spots keep winning, as Minnesota did last night against Iowa (and _avier won, too), we can continue to drop regardless of what we do against UMass and Richmond. UD has no margin for error, and a 26 point disaster loss isn't going to help.

Just found this 'Daily Bracketology' site...
http://dailybracket.wordpress.com/

After last night, UD and Missouri are now in the 'OUT TODAY' category. _avier and Minnesota are under the 'IN TODAY' box.

Checking out the IN THE MIX (FSU, Gtown, Mizzou, Ark, WVa, Providence, St. Johns, LSU, NCState) column, we're in trouble as 2-1 won't move us up far enough to pass the BCS/BigEast teams that likely will get the benefit of the doubt on Selection Sunday.

FWIW, A10 still with 6 bids, Big East 3, and there's no f'in way 7 A10 teams are getting invites so not only do we have to outplay the big fellas, we have to outplay at least 1 - if not 2 - A10 teams.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[shocka43]

I have seen it a million times on here.

Did I think we were going to win last nigh? Not really.

Did I think we should have been blown out? No.

Does this team fail when the other team comes out aggressive and with balls that have dropped? Yes.

UD is weak and they falter under pressure. What got my goat out last night is when I was driving to my meeting and heard Bucky state "This kid hasn't missed a three all game"...he hadn't and Larry followed it up with, "He is 8 for 8 from the floor."

Teams with nads get ticked off. And the next time a guy is 8 for 8 or 5 for 5 from the floor, you lay him out the first chance you get. UD doesn't have that, and the only person that did was D Scott. D Scott was matador all night...some of it had to do with him having to watch his fouls due to guards not being able to stop ball...but our bigs have 5 fouls each...use them to prove a point so you don't get run over.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by JimBo You can still defend the three though. Giving up open threes is no better than giving up open layups. The buzz saw was the Flyer defense and has been in most of the losses this season.

I think even I might be able to hit 9 of 15 treys if I was left that uncontested. It appeared that Martelli even tried to call off the dogs toward the end there, but our defense was so bad all over the court that it didn't much matter. Haha

[TA111]

I am amazed at some of the "sky is falling" lunacy on these threads today. It happens. Teams have down days. A couple of days ago X lost to a very mediocre Georgetown team by 22 points and then beat St. Johns yesterday. This is what happens in College basketball. Put it behind you and move on. Beat UMASS and all of a sudden you're great again.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by TA111 Beat UMASS and all of a sudden you're great again.

Well, beat UMASS and you're...back on the bubble. Then beat St. Louis and you're great again.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TA111 I am amazed at some of the "sky is falling" lunacy on these threads today. It happens. Teams have down days. A couple of days ago X lost to a very mediocre Georgetown team by 22 points and then beat St. Johns yesterday. This is what happens in College basketball. Put it behind you and move on. Beat UMASS and all of a sudden you're great again.

Yep, you have good days, and you have bad days...college bball is very competitive, there is a lot of parity...even the best teams can get beat on an off night...a team can look pretty bad one night and then win the next one. I'm surprised that DePaul managed to beat Seton Hall yesterday, I thought the Hall was better than that, and I thought DePaul was worse than that. I think the stakes/motivation play(s) a big role in some of these games.

Judge a coach and team by their body of work, not just 1 game, whether that 1 game was a good game or a bad game for the team.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by bobber Did you listen to the CBS announcers? One of them called the Flyers out several times for lack of effort. When was the last time you ever.....EVER....heard something like that? It was obvious!!!!!!! Posted via Mobile Device

I heard that by Dan Dakich about our Flyers earlier this season (SLU maybe?) and he definitely was saying it about them in the NIT loss at Iowa a few years back (remember, the game where our guys kept not getting back on defense to the point it was downright embarrassing). Again, it is the pattern that is so concerning. I don't think the SLU game was about effort, they are just a much better team. But I do remember that Iowa game and I hadn't seen that lack of effort by a Flyer team in years before then. I have now seen it way too often in the past 3 yrs.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[rollo]

We've played 28 games...and only 1 - Cal - could be classified as a great 40-minute effort and game.

The list of bad games of minimal or <20 good minutes of basketball outnumbers my fingers and toes...

Nobody is judging the merits of this team and coach on 1 game except those asking us not to...

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by steve Did you watch the actual game?And who the hell again are these announcers and exactly what type of understanding of the game and vision do they have that's so unique...UD out rebounded SJU by 13 and had 21 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS ! YES 21 ! That's called EFFORT.. They simply are not good enough, can't jump high enough, and aren't strong enough to make a difference against much better talent and teams. When you try hard and continually flail and fail it deflates a team.......Still, no excuse for not getting back on D a few times on breaks but they tried hard, very hard, and failed both players AND coaches......

Yes, they hit the boards well, that effort wasn't lacking. But I consider concentration as effort, especially when it comes to the defensive side of the floor. Last night, most if not all of the guys were standing and watching on the defensive side, while their guy was cutting to the basket unguarded for an easy layup. I consider this a lack of effort and concentration. I also don't recall them winning many loose balls. When you are playing for your lives to get into the NCAA tourney, and this game is as important as it was, I'd expect to see guys diving for loose balls. I didn't. I saw a lazy team on the defensive side of the floor who weren't willing to give themselves up for the betterment of the team.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles .... I also don't recall them winning many loose balls. When you are playing for your lives to get into the NCAA tourney, and this game is as important as it was, I'd expect to see guys diving for loose balls. I didn't. I saw a lazy team on the defensive side of the floor who weren't willing to give themselves up for the betterment of the team.

Re diving after loose balls....you have a point. I watch a lot of UConn women's BB....and routinely see a UC player dive over the scorers table at risk to life and limb going after a loose ball...with the team up by 40.

It doesn't even make sense. But, I've always wondered how Auriemma gets his girls to play like that.....to play "hungry" all the time.

For sure, it's a "head" thing.

[FlyingArrow]

This was only one loss, but it put our backs up against the wall. We need 4 wins. We only get one easy win in the tournament, and we have one all but certain loss at St Louis coming up. So we need both of the home games now. PLUS a second win in the tournament. All 3 of those will be tough games. (Of course knowing Dayton we'll probably win all 3 of the next ones - including St Louis and then lose to Fordham in the opening round. Still be left out... ugh.)

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TA111]

As an example of what I said above, George Mason is up over Richmond by the unbelievable score of 37-16 at the half. According to some on this thread, Richmond, who is on the bubble should just pack it up and go home. This really does hurt Richmond because it is a bad loss.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FlyingArrow]

And it helps us. Go Mason.

[Flyer69ers]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow And it helps us. Go Mason.

There is actually a word for this emotion: shadenfreude (from the German) (obviously)

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Flyer69ers There is actually a word for this emotion: shadenfreude (from the German) (obviously)

Not sure how that applies. I don't particularly care if Richmond makes the tournament or not. In fact, as long as Dayton is in, I hope Richmond is, too. On the other hand if X loses...

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[daytonflyers]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Not sure how that applies. I don't particularly care if Richmond makes the tournament or not. In fact, as long as Dayton is in, I hope Richmond is, too. On the other hand if X loses...

There will not be 7 teams from the A10, and right now we are in 7th place. So we need to catch Richmond or GW or both.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FlyingArrow]

7 teams is a possibility. Things would have to fall in just the right way for it to happen, but possible. A Richmond loss to Mason sure makes it harder, though.

SLU, VCU, and UMass are all locks at this point. Locks to the point they don't need a single win in the tourney as long as they don't lose out in the regular season. (SLU could even lose out and still make it, though.) If the tourney semifinals are Richmond, GW, Dayton, and SJU we probably all make it. Especially if the finals are Dayton/Richmond.

Unlikely, but possible. Knocking Richmond all the way out would be a great help, though.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Viperstick]

We will not make the NCAA as an at large this year.

We have not earned it, plain and simple.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Viperstick We will not make the NCAA as an at large this year. We have not earned it, plain and simple.

That's easy to say, but you need to describe the various scenarios. If we win 2 of our last 3 and make the semis of the A-10 Tourney will we make it? If we win 2 of our last 3 and make the finals will we make it? Or are you simply saying we won't do either of those things? Of course we haven't earned it yet, but we still could.

[Viperstick]

I'll give you the objective & subjective. Here's the objective.

We are 1-5 against the top of our league with three games to go. According to Gametracker, we have a 58% chance of winning vs. UMASS; 65% against Richmond. Let's just say we finish 9-7, and so does Richmond.

That puts us in a tie for 6th. We'd likely play GMU or Rhody in the first round. Assuming we win that, we'd probably get to square off against the SJU wrecking ball that rolled over us last night. Or, we might get UMASS (who could easily knock us off this Saturday at home the same way SJU did a few weeks ago). Either way, I don't believe we get past the second round of the A-10 tourney and finish with a 22-11 record.

Now look at our resume:

- Positives: surprisingly good road/neutral record; respectable 5-8 record vs. Top 50 (assuming UMASS/Richmond wins & Cal makes it into the top 50 & we lose as I expect in the A-10 tourney second round); 7-3 last 10 games (again, assuming wins vs. UMASS/Richmond).

- Negatives: 3x losses to RPI sub-100 teams (2x to sub-150 teams); blow out loss to fellow league bubbler SJU; 3-7 vs. top league teams (assuming Ws vs. UMASS & Richmond and tourney loss in second round); 11 losses for a team outside a power conference; RPI in the high 40s-mid-50s.

Look at other league teams on the bubble--SJU has one bad loss & a much better RPI (and they beat us twice); GW has no bad losses, fewer overall losses, and their loss to us came when shorthanded; Richmond is probably closest to us in terms of parity with their loss tonight to GMU & a probable loss at Rhody this weekend. The bubble outside the A-10 is fluid, but I can realistically see the league getting five bids again, not likely six. I think UD & Richmond are in the NIT.

Subjectively, we just don't have the killer instinct that a tourney team should have, especially at this time of the year. How many times have we all been frustrated by the team coming out flat and not playing a complete 40 minutes of basketball? How many times have we watched players clang free throws? How many times have we been manhandled inside by a team with a legit big man? How many times have we been in a dog fight against a team that we shouldn't have been in a dog fight with (IPFW, StFPA, ISU, USC, Duq) that we shouldn't have been in a dogfight with? How many times have we folded like a bad poker hand against quality league competition? This team just doesn't pass the NCAA tourney smell test.

Objectively & subjectively, I don't believe this team has any shot at an NCAA at large this year.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Subjectively, we just don't have the killer instinct that a tourney team should have, especially at this time of the year.

Exactly.

Had they even put up half a fight at SJU, we could have said that they got beat by a better team in a hard fought game. It wouldn't have taken away from a "getting better" at the end of the season trend that tournament teams have. It would have been chalked up as a tough road loss against a tough team.

The problem is that they looked as if they didn't even belong in the same gym, let alone Division, as SJU. That, my friends, is exactly why the "sky is falling" attitude is witnessed after losses. It isn't the L in the column, it is the fact that the L in the column wasn't a hard fought L. It was a disappointment on all accounts and doesn't show a trend that bodes well rolling into the remainder of the season against teams above us in the standings...it also doesn't help we will most likely have an uphill battle in Brooklyn.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Objectively & subjectively, I don't believe this team has any shot at an NCAA at large this year.

Objectively, you are wrong. We have a great shot at an NCAA at large. I am as big a pessimist as anyone, but if you are being truly objective then you would not make the statement you've made. That really can't be said until all the games are played. But as we sit right now, we have a good shot at one.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Exactly. Had they even put up half a fight at SJU, we could have said that they got beat by a better team in a hard fought game. It wouldn't have taken away from a "getting better" at the end of the season trend that tournament teams have. It would have been chalked up as a tough road loss against a tough team. The problem is that they looked as if they didn't even belong in the same gym, let alone Division, as SJU. That, my friends, is exactly why the "sky is falling" attitude is witnessed after losses. It isn't the L in the column, it is the fact that the L in the column wasn't a hard fought L. It was a disappointment on all accounts and doesn't show a trend that bodes well rolling into the remainder of the season against teams above us in the standings...it also doesn't help we will most likely have an uphill battle in Brooklyn.

Summed up my feelings. I watched the debacle in Pittsburgh vs. Duquesne in person. After that game, it was a win is a win, team looking ahead to St Joes game. Then we get blown out from the start and it is, it was just one game. Wasn't our night and was totally theirs. Either one can be acceptable but take both and add in the start against LaSalle and I really fear how things will go this Saturday.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Objectively, you are wrong. We have a great shot at an NCAA at large. I am as big a pessimist as anyone, but if you are being truly objective then you would not make the statement you've made. That really can't be said until all the games are played. But as we sit right now, we have a good shot at one.

Did I miss something?
The flyers don't have a single quality A10 win. How in the name of Jimmy Naismith do they have a good shot at an at-large bid when they haven't posted one solitary win in their conference over any teams that matter.

To believe that these flyers will make the NCAA cut because of the incredible strength of the A-10 is delusional.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by UDBaby Did I miss something? The flyers don't have a single quality A10 win. How in the name of Jimmy Naismith do they have a good shot at an at-large bid when they haven't posted one solitary win in their conference over any teams that matter. To believe that these flyers will make the NCAA cut because of the incredible strength of the A-10 is delusional.

Yes you missed something. They beat GW. Only one, but it is one. They're in the mix due to their non-con and the fact that they have a chance to get 3 more good wins, which is what they need. Will they? Sure hope so, but the schedule makes it possible.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Yes you missed something. They beat GW.

A GW team that was seriously decimated with injuries at the time. Yeah, maybe that doesn't get recognized by the NCAA selection committee, but we all know better.

[priceg75]

Some of y'all don't understand the definition of the term "objective", clearly.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Yes you missed something. They beat GW. Only one, but it is one. They're in the mix due to their non-con and the fact that they have a chance to get 3 more good wins, which is what they need. Will they? Sure hope so, but the schedule makes it possible.

Winning games makes anything possible.

UD has a chance because the there are a ton of teams that are mediocre too that are in the discussion.

I don't care what anyone says...winning out this season doesn't get it without some play in the tournament. And I don't think we win out.

Once again...the OOC in the first 1/4 of the season is rather forgettable and not as impressive as it once was. It takes winning in your conference and .500 or a touch above isn't impressive.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Some of y'all don't understand the definition of the term "objective", clearly.

Haha, true dat.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Some of y'all don't understand the definition of the term "objective", clearly.

Some of y'all don't understand the definition of the term "reality," clearly.

[TA111]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Well, beat UMASS and you're...back on the bubble. Then beat St. Louis and you're great again.

I guess we're a great team. Goes to show that you can't judge a team or season by one or two games.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by TA111 I guess we're a great team. Goes to show that you can't judge a team or season by one or two games.

Yes, but you're only as good as your last game. Right now, these Flyers are VERY good. But they need to keep the "mo" going straight through Saturday night.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by TA111 I guess we're a great team. Goes to show that you can't judge a team or season by one or two games.

Yes indeed. And did I call it or did I call it?

[mikeymo85]

Originally Posted by rollo Don't forget about our freshman who also aren't developing. Pollard? Few minutes and no FT touch. Davis...took him 25+ games to hit a 3. Smith...glimpses of ability but mostly lost. And I hardly expect next season's freshman class to contribute either. If Sibert and Sanford can't be considered a 4th year Junior or 5th year Senior because of playing time issues at OSU and Gtown, then I guess this year's freshman will be the same next season....right? UGH!

I think I saw some development at Saint Louis. How about three sophmores contributions?

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.