Voter fraud...why do they keep saying it?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by ud2 Fantastic summary, thank you.

However he lost to the guy that got the most votes ever.

[ud2]

PA state legislature moving to select its own electoral college voters, citing fraud, overruling the fact that PA voted for Biden.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/pennsy...d_3596736.html

Rudy urging the AZ legislature to do the same. Trump urging GA governor to overrule GA Secretary of State and get rid of the consent decree and reinstitute ballot signature matching.

[T-Bone 84]

UACFlyer, I said it earlier, and I’ll say it again: the numbers simply look very suspicious, when one considers how swiftly and decisively the election turned, literally AND figuratively overnight.

In my line of work, the old-timers (of which I am now one) have a saying: if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. Well, the way this election turned, it looks, “walks”, and “quacks” like chicanery.
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[UD62]

In person voters went strong for Trump, and the count was done more quickly, mail in voters went for Joe, and took longer to tally. You are perfectly willing to accept the former but are against the latter. Trump's rantings are just that rantings. He is so butt hurt at losing that he simply can't help himself.He and Rudy are doing a diservice to the country by claiming there is fraud everywhere. the Election officials both Democratic and Republican are stating the vote was honest. Court rulings back up that position, as Trump or his minions are losing everywhere.

But just like the Dems couldn't get over the '16 election, a portion of the GOP will not get over the perceived corruption in the '20 election even though the evidence is overwhelming in favor of a fair anf honest election.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 UACFlyer, I said it earlier, and I’ll say it again: the numbers simply look very suspicious, when one considers how swiftly and decisively the election turned, literally AND figuratively overnight. In my line of work, the old-timers (of which I am now one) have a saying: if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. Well, the way this election turned, it looks, “walks”, and “quacks” like chicanery. Posted via Mobile Device

Understood 84.

I don't quite understand the "turned overnight" angle. Polls had Biden ahead, way ahead, for a long time. If anything the election was a lot closer than expected. Isn't that right?

As for "suspicious"...judges/courts require a lot more than "it looks very suspicious". Real, credible evidence of malfeasance is required. As you know, the Trump lawyers have failed to persuade quite a large number of judges that such evidence exists.

This I agree with: "It looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck"....and all quacking appears to indicate that Biden won. Trump's legal team is running out of duck food.

Nonetheless, nothing will stop them from continuing to try. That's OK; but it can't/shouldn't go on forever. For that reason I think it would be best if the Trump team marshalled its best argument and the SCOTUS agreed to hear it.
SCOTUS is a co-equal branch of our Government and it's stacked with conservatives, three of whom Trump appointed.

If they were to rule in the President's favor the challenge gets new life. And if they don't that should end the matter. Will SCOTUS become involved? I surely don't know. But if the Court were to be petitioned and they refused to hear Trump team's pitch that would essentially be a ruling against Trump considering the current makeup of the Court.

Let's get it settled!

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by UD62 But just like the Dems couldn't get over the '16 election, a portion of the GOP will not get over the perceived corruption in the '20 election even though the evidence is overwhelming

There, I corrected it for you. Those who think the voting was fair can only be those who have lost sight of ethical behavior.

[T-Bone 84]

UACFlyer,

Simply to debate a few points:
1) Polls had Biden way ahead this year. Polls also had Hillary way ahead in 2016. Polls also had Dewey defeating Truman in ‘48. Polls also had the world flat in 1491. To summarize: polls can be wrong.
2) Maybe the vote didn’t entirely “turn overnight”, but Trump had fairly sizeable leads in several battleground states as of 11:00 PM on election night, and then those leads either were lost or substantially eroded within 24 hours thereafter. Call me any pull-string name you want, but that’s a suspicious turn of events to me.
3) Yes, the Trump legal team is short on time. And this can’t go on forever. But how long has the Blue side of the aisle contested the results of the 2016 election, in one way, shape, or form? 4 years? So, don’t be surprised if this “failure to accept” the results of the election continues until 2024 (or beyond), whether it’s Trump or his supporters continuing the fight.
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[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 UACFlyer, I said it earlier, and I’ll say it again: the numbers simply look very suspicious, when one considers how swiftly and decisively the election turned, literally AND figuratively overnight. In my line of work, the old-timers (of which I am now one) have a saying: if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. Well, the way this election turned, it looks, “walks”, and “quacks” like chicanery. Posted via Mobile Device

The election turned when the counting of the mail in votes began in earnest...late on Election Day. Nothing more and nothing less. Those absentee ballots favored Biden overwhelmingly, as had been predicted days and weeks before. The negative rhetoric from president Trump’s camp about absentee voting (even though he himself has voted this way for years) scared his voters into voting in person, COVID risk notwithstanding. Dems on the other hand, encouraged their voters to stay out of harm’s way and send in their ballots in the mail or drop them off at a ballot box, and many did.

UACFlyer has laid out the case in detail that there is no provable proof of fraud in this election. There is no credible scenario where a process as carefully watched by both parties and round-the-clock electronic surveillance could be corrupted at the massive scale required to change the outcome of the election.

[Brad S.]

I'm surprised Meijer has any aluminum foil left...

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by flyercasey Weren’t you the poster telling us how stupid we were for believing that Jim Comey and others in the intelligence community were patriots and we were stupid for questioning their motives? Posted via Mobile Device

I vividly remember that and he won't touch that topic regarding my opinions on Comey since day 1.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer Those absentee ballots favored Biden overwhelmingly, as had been predicted days and weeks before.

Not in my neck of the woods. Absentee voting was done by plenty of conservatives, if not more than democrats.

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Not in my neck of the woods. Absentee voting was done by plenty of conservatives, if not more than democrats.

Frisco's argument falls flat.

The FBI is using voter fraud information collected by the Amistad Project, the project's director, Phillip Kline, said Monday.

Kline, who is former attorney general of Kansas, tweeted the news on Sunday.

Appearing on "Stinchfield," Kline said the group's investigations show "what we call the blood in the street. It's after the crime is committed. And what evidence is there to show that a crime has been committed."

The FBI is looking at evidence uncovered by Amistad Society investigators who have crunched data from the government, then reached out to actual voters to see if how they voted actually matches the government's data.

"And we've come up with tens of thousands of Republican ballots that were not counted," Kline told host Grant Stinchfield. "We've come up with hundreds of thousands of Republicans who say they never requested a ballot, but they voted absentee by somebody else. We've identified people outside of the state who voted within the state. And all of this occurred in the key swing states that we're speaking about."

Kline said all of the areas investigated "had hundreds of millions of dollars poured into their election offices by Mark Zuckerberg."

The Facebook CEO, Kline said, poured in $400 million into the election, matching the federal government expenditures, through his charities.

"They paid the election judges, they paid the people who boarded up the windows, they bought the machines and America was kicked out of the counting room, and a billionaire invited in, in all of the swing state urban core cities, and that is a violation the law."

[cj]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gro...senate-runoffs

No comment needed.
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[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer Frisco's argument falls flat. The FBI is using voter fraud information collected by the Amistad Project, the project's director, Phillip Kline, said Monday. Kline, who is former attorney general of Kansas, tweeted the news on Sunday. Appearing on "Stinchfield," Kline said the group's investigations show "what we call the blood in the street. It's after the crime is committed. And what evidence is there to show that a crime has been committed." The FBI is looking at evidence uncovered by Amistad Society investigators who have crunched data from the government, then reached out to actual voters to see if how they voted actually matches the government's data. "And we've come up with tens of thousands of Republican ballots that were not counted," Kline told host Grant Stinchfield. "We've come up with hundreds of thousands of Republicans who say they never requested a ballot, but they voted absentee by somebody else. We've identified people outside of the state who voted within the state. And all of this occurred in the key swing states that we're speaking about." Kline said all of the areas investigated "had hundreds of millions of dollars poured into their election offices by Mark Zuckerberg." The Facebook CEO, Kline said, poured in $400 million into the election, matching the federal government expenditures, through his charities. "They paid the election judges, they paid the people who boarded up the windows, they bought the machines and America was kicked out of the counting room, and a billionaire invited in, in all of the swing state urban core cities, and that is a violation the law."

This is just BS. If there was a shred of truth in these allegations, the evidence will have been presented in court.

Just hot air from those who can’t bring themselves to come to terms with the election’s outcome.

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer This is just BS. If there was a shred of truth in these allegations, the evidence will have been presented in court. Just hot air from those who can’t bring themselves to come to terms with the election’s outcome.

You mean will be presented.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer You mean will be presented.

Color me extremely skeptical.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer Color me extremely skeptical.

I believe there was election fraud, because I have a cousin who was told by a representative of the BOE that she had voted absentee, when she had done nothing of the sort. Now, whether there was enough of this kind of chicanery to flip the reported national result remains to be seen, but there’s definitely “smoke”. It remains to be seen if it’s because of a fire or dry ice.
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[Fudd]

I really have not had time to follow the accusations and court cases. But, someone please explain to me how Pennsylvania could drop a 400,000-600,000 Biden vote bomb with like 3,000 trump votes mixed in. There isn't a voting district in the entire USA with voting demographics like that, is there? What are the mechanics of vote counting that allow 99% of any one group of a half a million votes to be that rich with one candidates votes? How does a population of that many Biden votes get isolated into one group? Are you going to tell me that there was a stretch of 400,000 mail-in votes that were 99+% in favor of Biden? That doesn't make sense either.

Frisco said this was "debunked" and cited an article that said it was a "clerical error". What does that mean?

Someone take their best shot at a plausible explanation.

And yeah, you can't go to court and say, "Judge I just don't believe that 500,000 votes in a row went to Biden. It defies common sense and statistical probability", and expect a judgement in your favor. I don't blame the judges. But people can smell a scam.

[UD62]

Should the SCOUS even take up the issue, and they don't rule in favor of the Donald, same folks will be screaming the fix was in. There is no pleasing the diehards.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 I believe there was election fraud, because I have a cousin who was told by a representative of the BOE that she had voted absentee, when she had done nothing of the sort. Now, whether there was enough of this kind of chicanery to flip the reported national result remains to be seen, but there’s definitely “smoke”. It remains to be seen if it’s because of a fire or dry ice. Posted via Mobile Device

I believe no election is perfect. I also believe that some individuals do commit fraud or vote illegally in every election. I do not believe this election had the kind of massive organized fraud that would overturn the election’s outcome. No way no how.

Every professional at local, state and federal levels have said there was no fraud. Every state, federal and appellate judge have also ruled this way. There is no evidence that has come to light to support the fraud claimed by the president and his supporters. Just a series of tired arguments and claims that have been debunked and dismissed over and over again. The conservative media however continues to repeat those claims and sadly, people on the right, especially those who get their information primarily from conservative media, are still buying the BS.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer I believe no election is perfect. I also believe that some individuals do commit fraud or vote illegally in every election. I do not believe this election had the kind of massive organized fraud that would overturn the election’s outcome. No way no how. Every professional at local, state and federal levels have said there was no fraud. Every state, federal and appellate judge have also ruled this way. There is no evidence that has come to light to support the fraud claimed by the president and his supporters. Just a series of tired arguments and claims that have been debunked and dismissed over and over again. The conservative media however continues to repeat those claims and sadly, people on the right, especially those who get their information primarily from conservative media, are still buying the BS.

When I was young and a Democrat, it was rumored that JFK won by the "fix was in", especially Chicago. I said, no way, no how. I could not believe that kind organized fraud could take place. I believed that for many years. Then you get out and experience how the world turns. Now I am older and wiser, and know better. Yes, it happens.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I vividly remember that and he won't touch that topic regarding my opinions on Comey since day 1.

Shocka, I have addressed the Comey topic more than once....apparently you missed each time.

You were right. Comey and his FBI cohorts committed crimes and they should be prosecuted....big time. I doubt that will happen. But it should.

Banana Republics go after their political opponents. We don't. For Biden to pick up the Comey issue and go after him might actually harm the Country. But, Comey deserves it, nonetheless.

Do you now understand my view re Comey et al? This is not the first time I've said exactly the same thing.

[flyercasey]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Shocka, I have addressed the Comey topic more than once....apparently you missed each time. You were right. Comey and his FBI cohorts committed crimes and they should be prosecuted....big time. I doubt that will happen. But it should. Banana Republics go after their political opponents. We don't. For Biden to pick up the Comey issue and go after him might actually harm the Country. But, Comey deserves it, nonetheless. Do you now understand my view re Comey et al? This is not the first time I've said exactly the same thing.

Sorry for injecting myself back into this subject, but again, I remember the derision dumped upon those suggesting Comey et al. might not have the best interests of the country as motivation And yes, that was you!
Is there a ring if familiarity there?
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[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by flyercasey Sorry for injecting myself back into this subject, but again, I remember the derision dumped upon those suggesting Comey et al. might not have the best interests of the country as motivation And yes, that was you! Is there a ring if familiarity there? Posted via Mobile Device

Casey, I really don't understand the purpose of this "follow up" post.

What do you want me to do? What do you wan me to say?

[rollo]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer I do not believe this election had the kind of massive organized fraud that would overturn the election’s outcome. No way no how.

So, are you therefore admitting that voter fraud exists, it's just not massive enough to care about??

60 Minutes - which I personally believe is a worthless news magazine - admitted the same thing on Sunday night.

I'm glad my cancer doctors didn't wait until my tumors were kind of massive before diagnosing my issues. And I'm glad the Covid 'experts' got involved way back in March and aren't waiting for the same.

[UACFlyer]

Today's WSJ has an op ed piece by the CEO of Dominion in which he does through every point/issue that has been raised by those saying the voting machines have been rigged or tampered with.

It's lengthy and has to be read to appreciate the numerous levels of certification and testing of the machines at the federal and state levels. To believe the tales re a role of the Dominion machines in a vote altering scam is to believe just about anything. Unless, of course, the CEO is lying.

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Today's WSJ has an op ed piece by the CEO of Dominion in which he does through every point/issue that has been raised by those saying the voting machines have been rigged or tampered with. It's lengthy and has to be read to appreciate the numerous levels of certification and testing of the machines at the federal and state levels. To believe the tales re a role of the Dominion machines in a vote altering scam is to believe just about anything. Unless, of course, the CEO is lying.

Let's see what happens with Sidney Powell's accusations about the Dominion voting machines.

And then there is Kline, who is former attorney general of Kansas - who is on the Amistad project working with the FBI.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Today's WSJ has an op ed piece by the CEO of Dominion in which he does through every point/issue that has been raised by those saying the voting machines have been rigged or tampered with. It's lengthy and has to be read to appreciate the numerous levels of certification and testing of the machines at the federal and state levels. To believe the tales re a role of the Dominion machines in a vote altering scam is to believe just about anything. Unless, of course, the CEO is lying.

No way has there ever been a CEO who lied. Well maybe the Facebook, Microsoft and Twitter guys a little bit. Oh, and maybe the Tesla CEO, and maybe the Enron CEO and maybe Madoff Securities... oh never mind.

[UD62]

I see that a witness in Sidney Powell's lawsuit alleging problems with more than 100% voter turnout in Edison county Michigan, has run into a snag. There is no Edison county in Michigan, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. This clown show just gets more funny as time goes by.

[cj]

Originally Posted by UD62 I see that a witness in Sidney Powell's lawsuit alleging problems with more than 100% voter turnout in Edison county Michigan, has run into a snag. There is no Edison county in Michigan, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. This clown show just gets more funny as time goes by.

I wonder what % of votes went to Biden?

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 No way has there ever been a CEO who lied. Well maybe the Facebook, Microsoft and Twitter guys a little bit. Oh, and maybe the Tesla CEO, and maybe the Enron CEO and maybe Madoff Securities... oh never mind.

How about making the effort and taking the time to read the WSJ article. Or, is your mind already made up?

[ud2]

More very strong accusations of cheating favoring Biden...this time in AZ.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...election_.html:

Data Expert: Up To 300,000 Fake People Voted In Arizona Election, "Biggest Fraud" In History

[UD62]

AG Barr has come out and said that his organization has not found any evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the election. Last guy to say something similar got fired. Wonder how The Donald will respond to this. Won't change any minds on this site though.

[ud2]

From my previous link:

Bobby Piton is a managing partner of Pre-Active Investments, LLC and an investment advisor representative of Total Clarity Wealth Management. He used Arizona’s official government data to run his analysis.

After analyzing the data, he believes this is the "biggest fraud in the history of our constitutional republic is taking place right before our eyes.” He thinks there are between 120,000 and 306,000 fake people who voted in this election. Piton presented his findings and said that he would never have certified Arizona’s election results.

"I would have never ever have certified, I would rather resign than have certified those results," he said.


"If I was an executive at a publicly traded company, I would never sign that because I risk jail time and having all my money taken from me in lawsuits,”" he also said. "I believe [the numbers] are fraudulent based on the data… I’d be willing to put my life on it, I’m that sure about the analysis."

[UD62]

If Bobby Piton says it it must be true.

[frisco flyer]

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud
https://www.yahoo.com/news/barr-no-e...191816984.html

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 From my previous link: Bobby Piton is a managing partner of Pre-Active Investments, LLC and an investment advisor representative of Total Clarity Wealth Management. He used Arizona’s official government data to run his analysis. After analyzing the data, he believes this is the "biggest fraud in the history of our constitutional republic is taking place right before our eyes.” He thinks there are between 120,000 and 306,000 fake people who voted in this election. Piton presented his findings and said that he would never have certified Arizona’s election results. "I would have never ever have certified, I would rather resign than have certified those results," he said. "If I was an executive at a publicly traded company, I would never sign that because I risk jail time and having all my money taken from me in lawsuits,”" he also said. "I believe [the numbers] are fraudulent based on the data… I’d be willing to put my life on it, I’m that sure about the analysis."

Should be very easy to prove then, right?

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo So, are you therefore admitting that voter fraud exists, it's just not massive enough to care about?? 60 Minutes - which I personally believe is a worthless news magazine - admitted the same thing on Sunday night. I'm glad my cancer doctors didn't wait until my tumors were kind of massive before diagnosing my issues. And I'm glad the Covid 'experts' got involved way back in March and aren't waiting for the same.

An operation as massive as national elections will always have flaws. But the process is fundamentally fair and transparent, which is a bedrock of our democracy. When problems are identified, they get fixed, making the next election cycle a more perfect process. When fraud is identified, legal action is taken, and those responsible are held accountable. This happens all the time, and there is nothing unusual about it.

What’s different this time, is we have a president hellbent on clinging to power any way he can and he is now, in desperation, using banana republics tactics to do it. His followers are all too happy to oblige.

It’s one thing to say our election system is flawed and we need to work together to keep making it better, and a whole other thing to claim that the president’s political rivals—democrats, republicans, and independents alike—conspired together to rig the election and deploy a massive scheme to defraud the system, disenfranchise the electorate and flip the outcome of the election. The former is perfectly reasonable and the latter is just delusional.

[UACFlyer]

The Attorney General, William Barr, consistently criticized as being in Trump's pocket, said a while ago that the Justice Department, U.S, Attorneys, the FBI, have been following up credible complaints charging election fraud...haven't found any that would change the election outcome.

Of course, this directly contradicts Trump. The last guy that said something like this, Chris Krebs, was immediately fired.

[Class of 73 Alum]

Even though Trump lost the popular vote by almost 6 million votes this election was actually closer than the last one. If you had just 44,000 votes to spread in 3 states Trump would be likely re-elected. He lost Wisconsin by 20k, Ga by 13k, and Ariz by 10. Those 3 states have a combined 37 electoral votes. Add those to Trumps 232 and the electoral vote is tied. I read somewhere Trump would have won the electoral tiebreaker.
Also of note, Trump lost Cali by a little over 5 million votes...almost the entire difference.
By the way I’m a lifelong Republican who firmly held his nose and voted for Biden. First time I have voted for a Dem for president since Jimmy Carter. My fear is Biden might be a worse president than Carter, but I just couldn’t take any more of Trump. The last straw for me was when he had the protesters cleared so he could hold a bible in front of a church. That was probably the first time a bible ever touched his hands.

[Brad S.]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud https://www.yahoo.com/news/barr-no-e...191816984.html

He must not want to be AG any more.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer ...Banana Republics go after their political opponents. We don't...

Sorry, UAC, but I had to laugh at this comment. Granted, we in the USA may not “go after” our political opponents in the same way that people in places like Venezuela, Cuba, Somalia, etc. “go after” their political opponents. But both of the last 2 impeachment proceedings (Trump this year and Clinton in the ‘90s) have been theatrical presentations that, IMHO, were largely “red meat” for The Base of the opposing party. Neither had a snowball’s chance in He!! of taking down the sitting president, and in each case, those pushing the issue knew it. Add-in the Trump/Russia election hoax, the anti-Obama “birther” movement, and other causes pushed by the opposing party, and I think it’s folly to say that we don’t “go after” our political opponents.
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[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Sorry, UAC, but I had to laugh at this comment. Granted, we in the USA may not “go after” our political opponents in the same way that people in places like Venezuela, Cuba, Somalia, etc. “go after” their political opponents. But both of the last 2 impeachment proceedings (Trump this year and Clinton in the ‘90s) have been theatrical presentations that, IMHO, were largely “red meat” for The Base of the opposing party. Neither had a snowball’s chance in He!! of taking down the sitting president, and in each case, those pushing the issue knew it. Add-in the Trump/Russia election hoax, the anti-Obama “birther” movement, and other causes pushed by the opposing party, and I think it’s folly to say that we don’t “go after” our political opponents. Posted via Mobile Device

Of course we do as you've pointed out. I meant after they are defeated and not in office we don't go after them.

I heard a good one yesterday. "Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently....and for the same reason". I'm for term limits.

[cj]

Not to mention that some on the Never Trump train want to prosecute Trump supporters.....
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[jack72]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Of course we do as you've pointed out. I meant after they are defeated and not in office we don't go after them. I heard a good one yesterday. "Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently....and for the same reason". I'm for term limits.

Wanna bet? You know the anti Trumpsters and the media will go after Trump from now until he dies, and especially now that they think he will run in 4 years.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 Wanna bet? You know the anti Trumpsters and the media will go after Trump from now until he dies, and especially now that they think he will run in 4 years.

In my opinion Trump's problems over the next four years will not be from anti-Trump politicians or the anti-Trump people generally.

While President he's been enjoying a respite from his legal and financial problems. It is reported that within the next few years somewhere between $400 million and $1 billion in debt payments come due, quite a bit of it personally guaranteed by Trump. Perhaps Trump can manage to refinance some or all of that. But, he won't be able to repay it.

Also, the NY District's campaign against Trump has been on hold. That should intensify. Tax fraud is high on their list.

And then there are those pesky tax returns and related financial records that have been so closely guarded. Their secrecy is not not likely to last.

Bottom line: Like it or not, Trump has "issues" pending the outcome of which could very easily determine his attractiveness as a candidate in 2024. Just opinion.

[cj]

No posting during Flyer games.
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[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Shocka, I have addressed the Comey topic more than once....apparently you missed each time. You were right. Comey and his FBI cohorts committed crimes and they should be prosecuted....big time. I doubt that will happen. But it should. Banana Republics go after their political opponents. We don't. For Biden to pick up the Comey issue and go after him might actually harm the Country. But, Comey deserves it, nonetheless. Do you now understand my view re Comey et al? This is not the first time I've said exactly the same thing.

It doesn't address the point that you vehemently called me out for my opinions of him from day 1, sure of yourself and hoping to be correct. I absolutely see that you understand the err in your ways, after he was exposed for years in the public eye. I based my opinions on listening him for a half day in a hearing.

The point now is that you are putting quite a bit of stake making judgements on these politicians that they are decent. They aren't. Many of them are just as big of POS's as Comey...too many trust them.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer What do you want me to do? What do you wan me to say?

I will speak for him...

Probably not put too much faith in these politicians as being overwhelming honorable people.

[Fudd]

Oh, I believe that the left is going after Donald Trump hard when he is not President. There have been no boundaries for them when it comes to Trump thus far. The New York based prosecution of Trump for tax issues is 100% politically motivated. It was born out the backstage pass created by the Russia Hoax.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by Brad S. I'm surprised Meijer has any aluminum foil left...

They don't. Adam Schiff-ites made a run on the store a year ago and they haven't restocked.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer In my opinion Trump's problems over the next four years will not be from anti-Trump politicians or the anti-Trump people generally. While President he's been enjoying a respite from his legal and financial problems. It is reported that within the next few years somewhere between $400 million and $1 billion in debt payments come due, quite a bit of it personally guaranteed by Trump. Perhaps Trump can manage to refinance some or all of that. But, he won't be able to repay it. Also, the NY District's campaign against Trump has been on hold. That should intensify. Tax fraud is high on their list. And then there are those pesky tax returns and related financial records that have been so closely guarded. Their secrecy is not not likely to last. Bottom line: Like it or not, Trump has "issues" pending the outcome of which could very easily determine his attractiveness as a candidate in 2024. Just opinion.

You keep making these accusations with not one iota of proof.

Meanwhile, reliable sources say that Joe Biden is broke, cheated on his taxes and was on skid row begging for money, so that he could supply his drug habit. Wait till they foreclose on his house once he leaves the Presidency.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 It doesn't address the point that you vehemently called me out for my opinions of him from day 1, sure of yourself and hoping to be correct. I absolutely see that you understand the err in your ways, after he was exposed for years in the public eye. I based my opinions on listening him for a half day in a hearing. The point now is that you are putting quite a bit of stake making judgements on these politicians that they are decent. They aren't. Many of them are just as big of POS's as Comey...too many trust them.

Read your posts. You are not "sure of yourself and hoping to be correct"?

In my opinion, assuming that all/most politicians are not decent is every bit a mistake as assuming that none of them are decent.

Re the main topic of interest at the moment: GA is as red as a state can get. Essentially all GA's governing officials are Republicans, they voted for Trump, they supported Trump....and now they are at war with Trump over his baseless, harmful attacks on them personally and on the integrity of the GA election process.

They are pleading with him to stop the attacks. They have carried out a thorough autopsy on their election process and its outcome. They are not happy about the outcome but they believe it to be fair and as accurate as an election can be.

Yesterday the United States Attorney General stated publicly that Trump's justice Department has found no evidence of irregularities of any kind that would change the election outcome...so far.

This morning's Editorial Board op ed in the WSJ went over the "shocking irregularities" Trump's people continue to tout, point by point, example by example....explaining that they either have no basis at all, or are understood and easily explained....nothing unusual compared to the patterns of the 2016 election.

And yet Trump continues his effort to undermine the election process in the minds of the voters.

Is there anything that would change your mind from being "so sure of yourself and hoping" that it will be proven that Trump won the election? Anything?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Re the main topic of interest at the moment: GA is as red as a state can get. Essentially all GA's governing officials are Republicans, they voted for Trump, they supported Trump....and now they are at war with Trump over his baseless, harmful attacks on them personally and on the integrity of the GA election process. Anything?

For starters, GA could use signature checking, like they used to, that would give GA to Trump. The consent decree getting rid of that checking is a fraud.

[Mich Flyer]

Unreliable Voting System

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD, the Inventor of Email, Scientist, Engineer, shares the results of his team’s mathematical analysis of four major counties votes in Michigan in the Trump-Biden election that reveals an unfortunate truth of U.S. voting systems.

https://vashiva.com/dr-shiva-live-mi...oting-systems/

[Mich Flyer]

Voter Fraud.

Several whistleblowers on Tuesday cast new uncertainty on the 2020 election process, claiming up to 288,000 ballots disappeared, another 100,000 were improperly backdated, and mail promoting President Trump was junked while mail for Joe Biden was delivered.

In the most extraordinary report, a U.S. Postal Service contractor said his trailer full of 144,000-288,000 completed mail-in ballots, which he drove between New York and Pennsylvania, disappeared after he delivered it to a Lancaster, Pennsylvania, depot.

Another claimed that ballots were backdated by postal workers, and in Traverse City, Michigan, Trump campaign mail was put in bins labeled “Undeliverable Bulk Business Mail” while the same type of mail for Joe Biden was ordered to be delivered on time.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...ated-disappear

[UD62]

Seeing as mail in ballots went heavly for Biden, if the claim were true seems as though Joe would get the majority of the votes. surprising that will all the "claims" being put forward, that none have resulted in any major change in the outcome.
Given all the "facts' presented by Trump, Rudy and others, judges should have an easy time confirming the "facts", however that has not been happening. Have to wonder why not.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer In my opinion Trump's problems over the next four years will not be from anti-Trump politicians or the anti-Trump people generally. While President he's been enjoying a respite from his legal and financial problems. It is reported that within the next few years somewhere between $400 million and $1 billion in debt payments come due, quite a bit of it personally guaranteed by Trump. Perhaps Trump can manage to refinance some or all of that. But, he won't be able to repay it. Also, the NY District's campaign against Trump has been on hold. That should intensify. Tax fraud is high on their list. And then there are those pesky tax returns and related financial records that have been so closely guarded. Their secrecy is not not likely to last. Bottom line: Like it or not, Trump has "issues" pending the outcome of which could very easily determine his attractiveness as a candidate in 2024. Just opinion.

Originally Posted by jack72 You keep making these accusations with not one iota of proof. Meanwhile, reliable sources say that Joe Biden is broke, cheated on his taxes and was on skid row begging for money, so that he could supply his drug habit. Wait till they foreclose on his house once he leaves the Presidency.

What "accusations"?

What I have stated accuses Trump of nothing. I just pointed out well known "issues" that could mean trouble for him in 2024.

It is known that Trump's enterprise has hundreds of millions due to be paid in the next few years. That's not an accusation. It's known and he may well be able to pay his debt. Or not. It is also well known that the NY Federal District is after Trump for, among other things, tax fraud. That's a fact. Trump may be innocent, or not. Finally it is well known that Trump has ben trying to move heaven and earth to shield his financial records. You know that's a fact.
That does not mean he's guilty of anything.

I stated facts...not accusations. But paying his debts and defending himself are significant issues.

By the way, When was the last time you heard discussion of the possibility of a President pardoning himself before leaving office?

[Fudd]

Before I hear, "There is no evidence of large scale voter fraud" again, can someone tell me how we define "large scale" or "massive" voter fraud?

100 votes?
1,000 votes?
10,000 votes?
100,000 votes?
1,000,000 votes?
10,000,000 votes?

I wonder how the MSM defines it. They must make the claim 100 times a day on some networks. I wonder what they really mean when they say it.

When we see the voting count spike by 400,000 votes in one shot, and those votes tally 99%+ for one candidate, it is highly, highly suspicious. I've asked for some theories on how that can happen, but have not had any takers with plausible explanations. It's certainly not conclusive "evidence" that there was fraud. But wouldn't you say that it is darn good reason for me to doubt the integrity of the voting system?

Would 400,000 votes be enough to qualify as "massive voting fraud" if we did have evidence?

Would 288,000 votes be enough to qualify?

100,000?

400,000 + 288,000 + 100,000 = 788,000?????

What is the threshold for admitting there has been "massive voter fraud"? Asking for a friend.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Fudd Before I hear, "There is no evidence of large scale voter fraud" again, can someone tell me how we define "large scale" or "massive" voter fraud? 100 votes? 1,000 votes? 10,000 votes? 100,000 votes? 1,000,000 votes? 10,000,000 votes? I wonder how the MSM defines it. They must make the claim 100 times a day on some networks. I wonder what they really mean when they say it. When we see the voting count spike by 400,000 votes in one shot, and those votes tally 99%+ for one candidate, it is highly, highly suspicious. I've asked for some theories on how that can happen, but have not had any takers with plausible explanations. It's certainly not conclusive "evidence" that there was fraud. But wouldn't you say that it is darn good reason for me to doubt the integrity of the voting system? Would 400,000 votes be enough to qualify as "massive voting fraud" if we did have evidence? Would 288,000 votes be enough to qualify? 100,000? 400,000 + 288,000 + 100,000 = 788,000????? What is the threshold for admitting there has been "massive voter fraud"? Asking for a friend.

Fudd, most likely there never has been an election without fraud. Certainly there has never been an election free of irregularities and mistakes.

From my reading of judges opinions re the 2020 election...as well as Barr's recent comments,....weighing very heavily is whether or not the possible fraud/irregularities/mistakes, etc, appear significant enough to change the outcome of the election.

That's not to say fraud etc is tolerated or approved of. It is not. But courts are not willing to rule in a way that could change the outcome of the election.

For example, some of Trump's legal arguments claim that hundreds of thousands, even millions of votes should be tossed out because of irregularities associated a number of votes that would not affect the outcome.

Not a day goes by that one or more Priders will post some outrageous screw up in some aspect of the election process (See recent posts above). Well if we know about such things the Courts know about them as well. It's incumbent upon Trump's legal team to run with the information so uncovered and persuade a Court that: 1) It's credible; 2) It's sufficient to change the election outcome. So far that has not happened.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer What "accusations"? What I have stated accuses Trump of nothing. I just pointed out well known "issues" that could mean trouble for him in 2024. It is known that Trump's enterprise has hundreds of millions due to be paid in the next few years. That's not an accusation. It's known and he may well be able to pay his debt. Or not. It is also well known that the NY Federal District is after Trump for, among other things, tax fraud. That's a fact. Trump may be innocent, or not. Finally it is well known that Trump has ben trying to move heaven and earth to shield his financial records. You know that's a fact. That does not mean he's guilty of anything. I stated facts...not accusations. But paying his debts and defending himself are significant issues. By the way, When was the last time you heard discussion of the possibility of a President pardoning himself before leaving office?

How comes any of this was never a big issue before Trump became Potus? I do not recall hearing anything about all this before 2015.

This is all very sad and frightening IMO. If you challenge the status quo, then the Swamp will try to destroy you.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer Voter Fraud. Several whistleblowers on Tuesday cast new uncertainty on the 2020 election process, claiming up to 288,000 ballots disappeared, another 100,000 were improperly backdated, and mail promoting President Trump was junked while mail for Joe Biden was delivered. In the most extraordinary report, a U.S. Postal Service contractor said his trailer full of 144,000-288,000 completed mail-in ballots, which he drove between New York and Pennsylvania, disappeared after he delivered it to a Lancaster, Pennsylvania, depot. Another claimed that ballots were backdated by postal workers, and in Traverse City, Michigan, Trump campaign mail was put in bins labeled “Undeliverable Bulk Business Mail” while the same type of mail for Joe Biden was ordered to be delivered on time. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...ated-disappear

We need affidavits.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 How comes any of this was never a big issue before Trump became Potus? I do not recall hearing anything about all this before 2015. This is all very sad and frightening IMO. If you challenge the status quo, then the Swamp will try to destroy you.

ud2 you didn't hear anything about it because you didn't care, hardly anyone did. Trump's financial troubles have been in the financial news for decades. But who cared before he became a presidential candidate?

Also, the Southern District of NY has been after him since before he became a presidential candidate.

As for his tax returns....they became an issue only after he entered the presidential race. As for his other financial entanglements and troubles, they were widely known for years before 2015 and, in fact, were openly discussed by his own son who once explained that the Trumps were shut out by Western Banks and the only place they could borrow money was from Russian interests.

All of this became front page news and remains so because now Trump is the most famous human in the world....not because he's being picked on.

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Fudd, most likely there never has been an election without fraud. Certainly there has never been an election free of irregularities and mistakes. From my reading of judges opinions re the 2020 election...as well as Barr's recent comments,....weighing very heavily is whether or not the possible fraud/irregularities/mistakes, etc, appear significant enough to change the outcome of the election. That's not to say fraud etc is tolerated or approved of. It is not. But courts are not willing to rule in a way that could change the outcome of the election. For example, some of Trump's legal arguments claim that hundreds of thousands, even millions of votes should be tossed out because of irregularities associated a number of votes that would not affect the outcome. Not a day goes by that one or more Priders will post some outrageous screw up in some aspect of the election process (See recent posts above). Well if we know about such things the Courts know about them as well. It's incumbent upon Trump's legal team to run with the information so uncovered and persuade a Court that: 1) It's credible; 2) It's sufficient to change the election outcome. So far that has not happened.

Shouldn't each fraud lawsuit be independently judged on it's own merits and not be dependent on the requirement that it would change the election result on its own?

So if there is a lawsuit where it is proven that there was fraud, but it does not exceed the difference in the election, should the judge rule to disallow those votes even if it does not change the election result on it's own?

There could be multiple lawsuits that tally up to exceed the election difference over time.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 How comes any of this was never a big issue before Trump became Potus? I do not recall hearing anything about all this before 2015. This is all very sad and frightening IMO. If you challenge the status quo, then the Swamp will try to destroy you.

Because most Americans don't give a **** about a private citizen's finances. When that private citizen becomes an elected official, these things matter a whole lot more.

[Viperstick]

So, I went to mail birthday cards for my mom this morning at a nearby post office. This is in Brentwood, TN--Marsha Blackburn's former congressional district & one of the priciest areas around Nashville. This is what I found:












Now, I have no idea who did this or why, that point is truly irrelevant in the broader scheme of things. If this gives you pause in putting $100 in an envelope and mailing to someone, it should similarly give you pause in putting a ballot in the mail, or supporting this grossly insecure method of exercising a Constitutional privilege.

[Mich Flyer]

Biden was told to stay in the basement. We have taken care of it for you.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick So, I went to mail birthday cards for my mom this morning at a nearby post office. This is in Brentwood, TN--Marsha Blackburn's former congressional district & one of the priciest areas around Nashville. This is what I found: Now, I have no idea who did this or why, that point is truly irrelevant in the broader scheme of things. If this gives you pause in putting $100 in an envelope and mailing to someone, it should similarly give you pause in putting a ballot in the mail, or supporting this grossly insecure method of exercising a Constitutional privilege.

Who knows what happened to those boxes and why? And who puts $100 in an envelope and mails it?

Not many people live so far from an official vote drop box and/or a post office so that they have to use the mail box on the corner. I understand that in some states those drop boxes are very far away. But people that have mail service to their homes see mail trucks, mail men/women, etc. Of course we can't trust those people either, can we?

This election occurred in the middle of a once a century crisis. Accommodations had to be made...and you're expecting perfection?

Every example of "potential" malfeasance or incompetence discussed in this forum is known to Trump's legal team. They are charged with presenting their information in a "credible" way backed by "evidence". The bipartisan judges in PA said neither condition was met....no credibility, no evidence.

The election was not close. This was not FL in 2000. In the one state where it was very close, red state GA, a hand count was in agreement with electronic tabulation. The GOP election officials whose guy lost stand by their system.

In a Country of 330 million people and 3000+ voting districts, in the midst of a national crisis, it's possible, indeed likely, to find example after example of screw ups along the line of the vandalized mail boxes. But to claim that the outcome of an election should be reversed or even seriously questioned it's necessary to do three things: 1) provide credible evidence; 2) provide proof; 3) show that the election outcome was so affected as to require that it be overturned.

That's what Trump's legal team has been trying to do...for four weeks...in a half dozen states....in front of judges and appeals courts....staffed by GOP judges...some appointed by Trump. They have not succeeded'; not once.

Enter the highest ranking legal official in the United States, the Attorney General..a guy who throughout his entire tenure has been lambasted for being Trump's puppet, for carrying water for Trump....and the AG says they have found nothing.

This could go on forever because you can't prove something didn't happen.

What will it take for you guys to let this go? I don't suppose there is anything.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer What will it take for you guys to let this go? I don't suppose there is anything.

Well since it took haters like yourself, and Dems, four years to let go of Trump winning in 2016, I'm going to say a lot.

Funny how the very same people who are telling Republicans to let go of this election, spent the last four years holding onto fake and manufactured scandals in order to reverse an election. We're not even a month after the election and we're being lectured to let it go. Oh, the irony.

[Mich Flyer]

Check out G News dot org. A U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing shows that the parent company of Dominion Voting Systems received $400 million from a Swiss investment bank in which the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) government owns a 75 percent stake.
According to a report provided by Austin Security and Investigative Solutions, “UBS Securities is a Swiss investment bank that owns 24.99% of the shares of UBS Securities Limited, a Chinese investment bank. The remaining 75% of the shares of UBS Securities Ltd. are owned by the CCP government.”

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer This election occurred in the middle of a once a century crisis. Accommodations had to be made...and you're expecting perfection?

Funny, Trump seems to be held to a higher standard with respect to COVID than you appear to have for our election system.


Mass vote by mail, with the exceptionally weak safeguards that were in place, was and is a recipe for fraud. Biden is an illegitimate president for exactly this reason.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Hey Viper, quit picking on the US postal service. I am not sure why you do not trust them? These guys are as bright as at least a burnt out 25 watt light bulb. After nicely asking my carrier multiple times, hanging a not so nice sign on the mailbox, then talking to the local post office manager on duty, yesterday I filed a formal complaint. All because my local letter carrier at my office is not intelligent enough to close the top hinged mail box at my office. Wet mail everytime it rains.

As for the election, I could say the mail in ballots fold in such a way that if the ink gets wet it runs from the R to the D, but I might be accused of not letting it go if I said such a thing.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Funny, Trump seems to be held to a higher standard with respect to COVID than you appear to have for our election system. Mass vote by mail, with the exceptionally weak safeguards that were in place, was and is a recipe for fraud. Biden is an illegitimate president for exactly this reason.

This afternoon the President released an incredible video stating unequivocally that massive fraud existed in our election, that he won and that Biden's election is illegitimate. The allegations were breathtaking.

While watching Fox News a short while ago I was reminded of something an attorney son reminded me of. It's this. For an attorney to allege/claim fraud before a judge without evidence is a crime. All attorneys and judges know that.

In all of the law suits the Trump team has brought forward, in not one did they claim fraud. In a few cases judges directly asked Trump's attorney's "Do you have evidence of fraud?" In each case the Trump attorney's said "no".

Of course this is in direct conflict with Trump's claims today.

We must have an attorney or two who are Priders. Have I explained this correctly? If not please correct me. What I am saying is that it's my understanding that an attorney cannot legally claim fraud in a courtroom without evidence...and that none of Trump's attorneys have claimed fraud in front of a judge, yet. Correct or not?

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer This afternoon the President released an incredible video stating unequivocally that massive fraud existed in our election, that he won and that Biden's election is illegitimate. The allegations were breathtaking.

"Fake news!"
"They were spying on me"
"Russia collusion hoax"


Some of Trump's hyperbole has a way of being proven correct eventually.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick "Fake news!" "They were spying on me" "Russia collusion hoax" Some of Trump's hyperbole has a way of being proven correct eventually.

While your comment is correct, that was then and this is now.

I've done some reading since my last post. At a minimum it is an ethics violation for an attorney to claim fraud in court without evidence. So far none of Trump's lawyers have claimed fraud in court.

Yet today the President claimed the most outrageous election fraud one could imagine.

Now for a hypothetical: Supposing that some may place Country above Party, suppose six months from now with Biden in the WH evidence surfaced that there was systematic voting fraud that might have changed the outcome. Of course there would be no higher priority than assuring it never happened again. But do you think the Country would be well served by revealing that fact, i.e., by revealing that Trump actually won the election?

I'm guessing some will say "yes" and some "no".

Meanwhile, I'm expecting a media explosion tomorrow re Trump's claims in his video presentation. Maybe even some GOP leaders will speak out, as well as AG Barr. We'll see.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Now for a hypothetical: Supposing that some may place Country above Party, suppose six months from now with Biden in the WH evidence surfaced that there was systematic voting fraud that might have changed the outcome. Of course there would be no higher priority than assuring it never happened again. But do you think the Country would be well served by revealing that fact, i.e., by revealing that Trump actually won the election? I'm guessing some will say "yes" and some "no".

"What difference does it make?!?!!"

- Hildabeast Clinton

The hypothetical you posed is analogous to the one I posed to you earlier. Who is the real enemy? I would contend, in both hypotheticals, it is those who seek to subvert the Constitution.


I believe there are those who need the long drop. The only questions are, who, how many, and do we have enough rope?

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Is there anything that would change your mind from being "so sure of yourself and hoping" that it will be proven that Trump won the election? Anything?

Pretty sure you have not seen any posts on me thinking that Trump won an election or even arguing that he did. It ain't happening.

I just sit back and point out the hypocrisy in posts that are telling us who is and who isn't bad in government when many have been plenty wrong before.

What you will see from me regarding the election is that there is reason to doubt anything and everything in politics and that there is room for nefarious activities in every political arena in the country to include an election. There is a little saying that I go by very often, trust but verify. Trusting everything and everyone is ignorant and believing that way is only setting yourself up for failure.

Trying to label me something I am in in terms of the 2020 election is, once again, an improper judgement of character/opinion of an individual. You aren't even comprehending the posts I do make. I want a system that is executed in the matter it was designed, from top to bottom, to ensure fairness and quality control no matter who or what is in charge or in power.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Fudd, most likely there never has been an election without fraud. Certainly there has never been an election free of irregularities and mistakes.

There is a difference between "fraud" and "irregularities/mistakes".

One is criminal and the other is an oversight or accidental variance of an established process.

It is no difference with workplace conduct. Did a person purposely violate a rule or was it simply a mistake? Both are treated differently and punished differently.

Regarding the above "voter fraud" threshold. Fraud should be punished SEVERLY no matter how many votes it impacts. If someone purposely forges or improperly submits one ballot, with the intent to defraud the system, it should be dealt with exactly the same as 1,000 ballots. There was in intent to defraud the system. That is much different than a postal carrier dropping a box of mail in ballots into a mud puddle making some ineligible.

Fraud and mistakes are dealt with based on intent. Why is this so hard to differentiate?

And before you accuse me of insisting there was fraud, simply look at a codified ordinance book at the definition section, because that is simply what someone needed to do around here to prevent the mashing and talking in circles due to broad and general statements.

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by Fudd Before I hear, "There is no evidence of large scale voter fraud" again, can someone tell me how we define "large scale" or "massive" voter fraud? 100 votes? 1,000 votes? 10,000 votes? 100,000 votes? 1,000,000 votes? 10,000,000 votes? I wonder how the MSM defines it. They must make the claim 100 times a day on some networks. I wonder what they really mean when they say it. When we see the voting count spike by 400,000 votes in one shot, and those votes tally 99%+ for one candidate, it is highly, highly suspicious. I've asked for some theories on how that can happen, but have not had any takers with plausible explanations. It's certainly not conclusive "evidence" that there was fraud. But wouldn't you say that it is darn good reason for me to doubt the integrity of the voting system? Would 400,000 votes be enough to qualify as "massive voting fraud" if we did have evidence? Would 288,000 votes be enough to qualify? 100,000? 400,000 + 288,000 + 100,000 = 788,000????? What is the threshold for admitting there has been "massive voter fraud"? Asking for a friend.

I see that there was no attempt made to define what "massive voter fraud" really is. That term is being used over and over as a defense of the 2020 election. Defining what we are talking about seems important to understand the claims being made.

Also, is sworn testimony under penalty of perjury considered evidence? How many cases of such testimony are necessary to convince you that it's not just a few crackpots?

I saw a story recently that claims Georgia has no idea how many votes came from their drop boxes, although election law requires them to keep detailed records of how many votes are collected from those drop boxes.

What good are anti-fraud election laws if there is no adherence to them and no penalty for flaunting them? This is why you don't create voting systems where the doors are wide open to easy fraud "in practice". These drop boxes probably looked like a real good idea on paper, with laws to protect their integrity. But, if the people in power at the moment of the election choose to ignore those laws, it opens the system wide for massive fraud. How can anyone prove "massive fraud" if the very laws designed to give proof of fraud are in the hands of the fraudsters? The system was designed with the fox guarding the henhouse.

When that happens, I don't expect judges to step in and save us. I expect people to recognize what has been unleashed on election integrity and demand that their elected officials fix the broken system.

Massive mail-in balloting is a horrible idea when you combine it with the anemic anti-fraud measures that were demonstrated in 2020. It's not just a horrible idea, it is an extremely dangerous threat to our liberty. I hope that when all of the dust has settled from the 2020 election, more of you will agree with me on that premise.

[Mich Flyer]

Trump, making the case for a "rigged election," stressed many of the following points:

We have "an Election Day," but we were told months before the election to expect the ballot counting to take weeks, if not months.
There appeared to be "an orchestrated effort to anoint a winner" despite votes still being counted.
Democrats mailed out tens of millions of ballots, permitting "fraud and abuse on a scale never seen before," he claimed.
Bloated voter rolls were used to send out ballots, he further asserted, despite reliance on names of the dead and on voters who had moved out of the specific voting districts.
Using "the pandemic as a pretext," Democrats and courts overrode constitutional election law in some cases without the permission of the state legislatures.
"Dozens of counties in key swing states have more registered voters on the rolls than they have voting age citizens, including 67 counties in Michigan," Trump said.
"Wisconsin could not confirm the residency of more than 100,000 people," Trump said, adding they refused before the election to clean up the registrations. "I knew why: because they're illegal voters."
Key battleground states, like Wisconsin, saw a "massive dump of votes" overnight, swinging the lead from Trump to his opponent. "Mostly [Joe] Biden, almost all Biden," Trump said. "I went from leading by a lot to losing by a little."
Michigan had a dump of 149,772 votes overnight (6:31 a.m.), flipping Trump's lead to Biden, he maintained.
He said hundreds of thousands of votes were unlawfully counted without meaningful observation, or no observation at all.
He also described "tens of thousands" of voters who showed up to vote on Election Day but were told they had already voted by mail-in ballot, despite not having done so.
Democrats ballot harvesting mass mail-in ballots, which is illegal in some states.
Dominion Voting Systems, he said, has technology that can flip votes from one candidate to the other, which can go undetected without forensic examination. The company's CEO has denied these claims.
"They called it a glitch," where 6,000 votes in Michigan were discovered to have been incorrectly flipped from Trump to Biden.
Dominion Systems might have counted votes on overseas servers, which were vulnerable to hacking and fraud. The company has again denied these allegations.
Republicans across the U.S. won and flipped many seats in states and the U.S. House, suggesting a massive GOP voter turnout that was not equally represented in the presidential election. "It is statistically impossible, the person that led the charge, me, lost," Trump said. "We led the country to victory and you are the only one that was lost. It's not possible."
Lacking mail-in ballot signature verification that is unlawful.
Recounts that are failing to check signatures and matching them with envelopes that have been separated from the ballots.
Many people received multiple ballots from error-prone voter rolls.
Dead voters have been found to have voted.
Illegal votes cast in many battleground states.
"We're showing you hundreds of thousands," Trump said. "Far more than we need. Far more than the margin. Far more than the law requires. We can show many times what is necessary to win the state.

"The media knows this, but they don't want to report it. In fact, they outright refuse to even cover it, because they know the result if they do.

[Mich Flyer]

Trump says if he's right about election fraud, 'Biden can't be president'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...t-be-president

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Now for a hypothetical: Supposing that some may place Country above Party, suppose six months from now with Biden in the WH evidence surfaced that there was systematic voting fraud that might have changed the outcome. Of course there would be no higher priority than assuring it never happened again. But do you think the Country would be well served by revealing that fact, i.e., by revealing that Trump actually won the election? I'm guessing some will say "yes" and some "no".

If it is proved that the fraud got Biden across the finish line, then Biden should be impeached or resign, and Trump should become potus.

[Chris R]

If you think "massive widespread voter/election fraud" is hard to quantify, try "fair share" when it comes to tax liability. They provide no number because doing so would alienate too many supporters and force the politicians into a painted corner. They prefer the flexibility of generality.

[rollo]

What do 'massive' and 'fraud' have to do with each other??

I get embezzlement data sent to me weekly and guess what? We don't wait until the embezzlement is 'massive' enough to shut down operations or force us into bankruptcy court. We immediately investigate and prosecute as necessary to avoid it becoming 'massive'.

Should we overlook heroine use in communities and schools until it becomes 'massive'? How about shoplifting at Kroger?? Or going +80 mph down I-75 as we head to Kroger to shoplift some steaks with the cash we just got from selling heroin at Fairmont HS?? I guess since I'm the only one speeding/shoplifting/dealing it should be ignored! Unless you consider me 'massive'.

UGH!

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R If you think "massive widespread voter/election fraud" is hard to quantify, try "fair share" when it comes to tax liability. They provide no number because doing so would alienate too many supporters and force the politicians into a painted corner. They prefer the flexibility of generality.

The problem is that the fraud is difficult to prove as the Dominion voting machines have no audit trail. Why is that so?

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer The problem is that the fraud is difficult to prove as the Dominion voting machines have no audit trail. Why is that so?

Didn't the Dominion CEO say that changing votes was "physically impossible" on the Dominion Voting System. "Physically Impossible" people. That is pretty secure. No possible way. Ultimate security.

And to add to that, this was the most secure election in the history of elections according to someone in government.

So why should we be worried?

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by Fudd Didn't the Dominion CEO say that changing votes was "physically impossible" on the Dominion Voting System. "Physically Impossible" people. That is pretty secure. No possible way. Ultimate security. Did I hear that they shut down their offices after the election? Is that true? And to add to that, this was the most secure election in the history of elections according to someone in government. So why should we be worried?

Wasn't it possible for the software to change votes?

[ud2]

Very detailed article...more seemingly impossible pro-Biden vote numbers in PA.

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horow...n-pennsylvania

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Very detailed article...more seemingly impossible pro-Biden vote numbers in PA. https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horow...n-pennsylvania

This whole business requires more investigation. So why would Biden be certified on Dec. 14th?

[ud2]

MI GOP official: election laws are being ignored in select counties in MI.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ion_fraud.html

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer This whole business requires more investigation. So why would Biden be certified on Dec. 14th?

A banana republic would not certify the duly elected president because supporters of the current president/dictator claim, without actual evidence, that the election was fraudulent.


A democracy like our would certify the newly elected president because the orderly and peaceful transfer of power is a bedrock of our democracy, and it is what sets us apart from "democracies" like Russia and China.

[Mich Flyer]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer A banana republic would not certify the duly elected president because supporters of the current president/dictator claim, without actual evidence, that the election was fraudulent. A democracy like our would certify the newly elected president because the orderly and peaceful transfer of power is a bedrock of our democracy, and it is what sets us apart from "democracies" like Russia and China.

Biden might not have been duly elected.

[Bill McPeek]

We are NOT a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. The founders greatly feared a a real, true democracy. They thought it was "mob rule." Sadly, the terms democracy and republic have become interchangeable. I am not going to get into the semantics of that argument. At the very LEAST I would think there is enough evidence to at least investigate the alleged fraud concerning the 2020 presidential election

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek We are NOT a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. The founders greatly feared a a real, true democracy. They thought it was "mob rule." Sadly, the terms democracy and republic have become interchangeable. I am not going to get into the semantics of that argument. At the very LEAST I would think there is enough evidence to at least investigate the ALLEGED FRAUD concerning the 2020 presidential election

Bill, Trump's legal team has had its say in over 30 court cases, including at least one appeals court. They presented all the evidence they have in front of judges of both parties, including a federal judge appointed by Trump.

In not one of those cases did the Trump legal team allege fraud. When asked specifically if they had evidence of fraud the lawyers replied "no".

Bill, there is no evidence of fraud as AG Barr pointed out recently. At least not yet.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Bill, there is no evidence of fraud as AG Barr pointed out recently. At least not yet.

IMO, Trump strongly disagreed with Barr's comments, he basically called Barr completely uninformed.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 IMO, Trump strongly disagreed with Barr's comments, he basically called Barr completely uninformed.

Trump called the Attorney General of the United States "uninformed"? Well, that clears things up for sure.

Presumably the President meant that the AG was uninformed as regards evidence of election fraud. Apparently Trump's legal team is also uninformed as regards fraud because they have not presented any evidence of election fraud during 4 weeks of appearances in 30+ cases brought before judges in a half dozen states.

[Viperstick]

Video of Fulton County election night chicanery. A burst pipe (that apparently never happened) was the pretext for someone to kick out all the poll watchers by stating they were stopping for the night. Then four ballot counters stayed and kept counting for several more hours.


Who was this person? Who were the poll workers that evening? Investigate them. Look at their finances. Interrogate them as you would any felony suspect. Someone will crack.


https://newsla.localad.com/2020/12/0...lation-center/

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer A banana republic would not certify the duly elected president because supporters of the current president/dictator claim, without actual evidence, that the election was fraudulent. A democracy like our would certify the newly elected president because the orderly and peaceful transfer of power is a bedrock of our democracy, and it is what sets us apart from "democracies" like Russia and China.

Speaking of banana republic elections.........

Originally Posted by Viperstick Video of Fulton County election night chicanery. A burst pipe (that apparently never happened) was the pretext for someone to kick out all the poll watchers by stating they were stopping for the night. Then four ballot counters stayed and kept counting for several more hours. Who was this person? Who were the poll workers that evening? Investigate them. Look at their finances. Interrogate them as you would any felony suspect. Someone will crack. https://newsla.localad.com/2020/12/0...lation-center/

I'm sure that having suitcases full of votes ready after they fooled everyone into leaving was not premeditated....

Is this one of those "clerical errors" that you posted about Frisco?

Are we going to get the "no election is perfect" defense again? Our Presidential election system does not have to be a farce. We have the ability to make a system where massive fraud can't be pulled off and people actually fear getting caught stuffing the ballot box.

[Mich Flyer]

Michigan Election Fraud Witness

One witness, Mellissa Carone, was contracted by Dominion voting machines to provide IT support in Detroit and told the committee how she was forced to watch as election officials added the same batches of ballots to the final tally over and over again.

The mishandling of ballots and the negligence of poll workers affected not only the presidential race, but several ballot measures within the state.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Fudd Our Presidential election system does not have to be a farce. We have the ability to make a system where massive fraud can't be pulled off and people actually fear getting caught stuffing the ballot box.

Totally agree, this is all very fixable and preventable, but there has to be the willpower to take it on. Trump excels at having willpower and pushing things over the finish line.