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View Poll Results: After the commercial break, what's the flying elbow call?
Elevate to Flagrant Technical Foul...Williams tossed, OSU FTs and ball 3 10.34%
Keep it as an Intentional Foul. OSU gets 2 FTs and ball. 6 20.69%
No contact = Elbow Violation. No foul, OSU ball 5 17.24%
No contact = Inadvertant whistle...go to dual possession arrow 6 20.69%
Double Technical...XW for flagrant elbow, Goodwin for flopping 9 31.03%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2017, 08:47 AM
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You Make the Call - Elbows

Sorry I didn't post this yesterday but the queen and I were out and about celebrating 23 years of royal conjugality. And how would I describe the past 23 years? One word....BOING! Here's to 23 more M'Lady!

As for basketball, I had a number of wild situations at the UD Team camp last weekend...here's one! We're applying NCAA rules to this scenario. Good luck.

Two D1 studs are going at it head-to-head in a Sweet 16 NCAA Tournament game. The game has been physical and tight since the opening tip and with 2:44 left, UD and the Ohio State U are tied at 74.

As John Crosby brings the ball over midcourt, OSU's Dane Goodwin reaches around him and tips the ball toward the wing. Xerius Williams dives for the ball, as does Goodwin and after a short tussle, a dual-possession whistle is blown and UD is awarded the ball. While walking to his high-post position for the throw-in, Williams walks by and tells Goodwin if his 'buckeyes were bigger he'd be a Flyer' to which Goodwin responds 'at least my Flyer can get off the ground' which leads to the two going at it face-to-face, forcing the refs to once again split the two apart.

As the Flyers set up their inbounds play, Goodwin bellies up to Williams and is guarding him close. Fearing another confrontation, official Chad Barlow quietly sticks his nose into their space and tells them to 'keep it clean...we're all watching' and as Goodwin takes a half-step back they appear to relax.

With control of the game and players seemingly established, Joey DeMayo hands the ball to Crosby for the throw-in and he lobs it to Williams, who is, at this point, sick of the OSU freshman's attitude. With Goodwin now completely up and into XW's face, and in order to make some space, Williams lifts the ball over his left shoulder, squares his feet to the basket and wildly swings his elbows and ball around his chest and to the other side of his body.

Without making contact, Goodwin flops to the ground as Williams starts a drive to the basket...but before he has taken 2 steps, DeMayo blows his whistle, raises both arms into the air forming an 'X' and indicating an Intentional Foul, and with a chorus of 'BOOOOOOs' from the 6,000 Flyer faithful who made the trip to Atlanta for this game, play is stopped. With UD coach Anthony Grant stomping on the sidelines and frothing at the mouth, and with Goodwin jumping up and clapping in XW's face, the refs huddle - as is common with elbow infractions - to discuss whether the call, the contact, its severity and intent needs to be elevated. So while TrueTV goes to yet another Cialis 4-hour erection commercial, you and your drunk friends get 3 minutes to MAKE THE CALL!
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2017, 10:00 AM
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Goodwin takes Crosby's scholarship and goes to Dayton.

Xeyrius redirects the flying elbow drop to DeMayo ala the Macho Man Randy Savage and gives the world an "oooh yeah."

Raftery on the call for TruTV exclaims "Xeyrius, this young man has some Xeyrious onions!!!" prior to leaving the broadcast to seek medical help for a 4-hour erection.

Mike Hartsock comes out of press row, jumps into Raftery's chair and tells the world to "check that."

Dayton wins that game and goes on to become national champions (of course). Brackets destroyed. Party in the ghetto rages for days. Spina crowd surfs. Pukes and rallies. Crowd surfs again.

That's how I see it playing anyway. So I am voting F for Other.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:22 AM
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Only Joey "hold" DeMayo would make that call to begin with...one of the worst officials to set foot on Blackburn Court.
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Goodwin takes Crosby's scholarship and goes to Dayton.

Xeyrius redirects the flying elbow drop to DeMayo ala the Macho Man Randy Savage and gives the world an "oooh yeah."

Raftery on the call for TruTV exclaims "Xeyrius, this young man has some Xeyrious onions!!!" prior to leaving the broadcast to seek medical help for a 4-hour erection.

Mike Hartsock comes out of press row, jumps into Raftery's chair and tells the world to "check that."

Dayton wins that game and goes on to become national champions (of course). Brackets destroyed. Party in the ghetto rages for days. Spina crowd surfs. Pukes and rallies. Crowd surfs again.

That's how I see it playing anyway. So I am voting F for Other.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Only Joey "hold" DeMayo would make that call to begin with...one of the worst officials to set foot on Blackburn Court.
I vote for that, and I KNOW I got that one right.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:07 PM
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172 views and 17 votes. You guys are lame.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:25 PM
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I got your elbows...
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:14 AM
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Should have been a no call...if there was no contact...

But, not knowing whether or not after an infraction was called...and if they can go back and reverse Joe's bad original call...leads me to believe the original call stands...

Or they reverse the entire bad call and go to the arrow.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:39 AM
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I don't think there is a flopping rule in the NCAA yet. So - unfortunately, I think the description of a wild elbow swing (contact or not) gets X tossed from the game.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:41 PM
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My guess is B. I don't think they can go to the monitor to see if contact was made so original intentional foul stands. No contact = no flagrant. No flop rule in NCAA.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
I don't think they can go to the monitor to see if contact was made ...
They can't use the monitor in this situation which is why I stated that the 3-man crew huddled to discuss elevating the call.

For those who haven't voted yet, I'll let your intimate, detailed and thorough knowledge of the game take it from there.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:44 AM
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Only comment I have about elbows is that like 'wings' if'n they dont have enough meat on them, they ain't particularly good to eat!
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:16 AM
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Rule 9.14.1 Violation to swing elbows even w/o contact...

Anyone who played HS basketball has a pretty good understanding of the basic rules of basketball and probably would be decent CYO refs...but refs aren't paid for their expertise on traveling or over-and-back...they are paid for the rare crazy plays that catch you off guard. Flying elbows are discussed a lot but not expected...so when something happens as described above, you need to KNOW what to call, not guess...and this is what separates the arm-chair refs from the Royal refs. With that said, here's a breakdown of the options.

3 UDPriders voted (a) Elevate to Flagrant Technical Foul...Williams tossed, OSU FTs and ball which is the wrong call. Can't elevate a flying elbow to a Flagrant 1 or F2 unless contact was made. As stated in the scenario, no contact was made. If you are one of these 3, grab a Bud Light because you're an arm-chair ref.

6 UDPers voted (b) Keep it as an Intentional Foul. OSU gets 2 FTs and ball which is also wrong since NCAA rules no longer include 'intentional'. In case of an intentionally fouling, a level of Flagrant foul is assessed. If you're one of these 6, you would have been a great official in 2010 but it's 2017 so sit down and grab a beer as you are not worthy of the Royal stripes!

6 UDPers voted (d) No contact = Inadvertent whistle...go to dual possession arrow. I understand your reasoning and because no contact was made it's hard to call anything, but injuries/safety/concussions are the hot discussion item and because of that, elbows have specifically been address in the rules and in preseason guides. Contact or not, flying elbows are dangerous so when you see one, either a foul or violation MUST be called. Ignore one elbow and you're asking for an injury and/or fight. If you're one of the 6 who voted this way, you have my sympathies but not my support. Please hand in your whistle and have a seat in that LazyBoy recliner.

9 UDPers voted (e) Double Technical...XW for flagrant elbow, Goodwin for flopping which is the one option is just completely made up and expected nobody to vote for...so if you're one of the 9 please explain and give me an example of someone getting tossed for FLOPPING. Can you imagine if this were a rule? Duke would have walk-ons playing 25+ minutes per game! If you voted for (e), please know your role and shut your mouth as you are obviously unqualified to officiate any and all sports...except soccer.

With (a), (b), (d) and (e) eliminated, the Royally correct answer is (c), No contact = Elbow Violation. No foul, OSU ball. Without an elbow making contact you cannot call a common/offensive foul. And if it's not a foul, it can only be a violation. So in this case the 5 Royal refs who would blow their whistle, raise an open hand, signal the elbow violation, and award the ball to tOSU on the sidelines would also earn a Golden Whistle for going above and beyond the expectations of the drunk in the arm chair typing away on a chatboard about how bad A10 officials are.

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Old 06-30-2017, 11:11 AM
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6 UDPers voted (b) Keep it as an Intentional Foul. OSU gets 2 FTs and ball which is also wrong since NCAA rules no longer include 'intentional'. In case of an intentionally fouling, a level of Flagrant foul is assessed. If you're one of these 6, you would have been a great official in 2010 but it's 2017 so sit down and grab a beer as you are not worthy of the Royal stripes!

Yep, that's about the time I retired from the game and the last time I picked up a rule book. Now, back to my soap opera.
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:12 PM
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So an "elbow violation" is just like a double dribble or a travel? Therefore, statistically is a turnover, right?
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:42 PM
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I admit my answer was E, which is sad because I don't even get to grab a bud light or a beer like the people with the other wrong answers. Even worse you want me to watch soccer. Ugh.

I knew there wasn't a penalty for flopping in regards to "over-acting" the impact of the contact. However, is there no penalty for completely pretending you were hit by an elbow if no contact was ever made?

Often times an offensive player with the ball will swing elbows to create space. I have seen many times where the defender is very close and takes an elbow to the face/chin and the offensive player gets called for the technical. My memory is probably faulty, but I thought I saw a game where the offensive player swung elbows and got very close to the defenders face, but never touched him. The defensive player fell to the ground in fake agony and the refs went to the monitors. I thought the defender got called for the technical since he was never touched, but maybe it was just a no-call after they watched the replay.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:57 PM
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Yeah, thought there was a (relatively) new tech for flopping so I went with e.

But I usually only complain about the officials when it comes to traveling and over the back calls; I wait for the official ruling on the more complex stuff.
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Old 06-30-2017, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
So an "elbow violation" is just like a double dribble or a travel? Therefore, statistically is a turnover, right?
Give the man a golden whistle!
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