Charles Cooke looking at the NBA Draft

lhsgolf19 · #1 04-21-2016, 04:57 PM

Dayton Basketball ‏@DaytonMBB 29s30 seconds ago

Charles Cooke will submit his name for the NBA Draft. He will not sign with an agent. http://bit.ly/1pmkqUj

sheg · #2 04-21-2016, 05:00 PM

Seems like an (almost) non-story. He's a junior, so he might as well take the free look and get feedback.

flybye · #3 04-21-2016, 05:10 PM

He has a chance to be told he will be a second rounder. Has an NBA body and he can defend and get hot at times. He would be rolling the dice. But sounds like he is not a happy camper. Get Plan B ready!!

C-time · #4 04-21-2016, 05:24 PM

This should go real well on this board combined with the tweet from the other day that was discussed in the Off Court issues thread.

As for him testing the NBA waters without an agent he is doing what any player with NBA aspirations should do. It can't hurt to hear what NBA people think of him.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #5 04-21-2016, 05:29 PM

I wish him luck and hope to see him succeed at the next level next season.

sheg · #6 04-21-2016, 05:41 PM

Remember how this board lost its collective mind when Chris Wright did the same thing?

TommyGola · #7 04-21-2016, 05:42 PM

I believe Charles has a lot of the raw skills necessary to crack the NBA. However, another year of honing those skills would do him a world of good. This lends more credence to the notion that Charles' chemistry with the team and coaching staff may be a bit strained.

Phi Psi Flyer '09 · #8 04-21-2016, 05:56 PM

Every JR 6"5' or taller should be doing this. Especially if they have any semblance of a jumper whatsoever. This is a no brainer for Charles. Imagine if you were given a free job interview in your field with nothing to lose when you were 22.
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BRob2Perryman3 · #9 04-21-2016, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by C-time

This should go real well on this board combined with the tweet from the other day that was discussed in the Off Court issues thread.

As for him testing the NBA waters without an agent he is doing what any player with NBA aspirations should do. It can't hurt to hear what NBA people think of him.

I Thanked this solely because there is nothing better then a well-timed use of the popcorn emoji

San Diego Flyer · #10 04-21-2016, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by TommyGola

This lends more credence to the notion that Charles' chemistry with the team and coaching staff may be a bit strained.

I have no way of knowing about this team chemistry thing, but everything I have read on here pointed at two players issues. This is the first I recall anything negative about his interaction with the coaches. Did I miss a step?

ud2 · #11 04-21-2016, 06:35 PM

There is a new rule this year to allow this sort of thing without a player losing his eligibility...I do not remember all the specifics, and I do not remember how this year is different than prior years.

THirt · #12 04-21-2016, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by ud2

There is a new rule this year to allow this sort of thing without a player losing his eligibility...I do not remember all the specifics, and I do not remember how this year is different than prior years.

I think it's that the deadline to withdraw your name is a lot later; after some of the evaluation camps. Players get a much better chance to get feedback from NBA scouts and front offices about where their draft standing might be. It's still well before the draft that you have to withdraw your name if you plan to stay in school, but you can leave your name in until May 25. In the meantime, you can work out, get evaluated, get feedback, and you have more time for this than in years past.

Honestly, anyone who is getting a sniff from the League should put their name in; there's little downside for the player.

All that said, this smells a bit fishy given the grumblings late in the season.
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UDDoug · #13 04-21-2016, 06:56 PM

I'll go beyond "little downside". I don't think there is any downside for the player. You can work out for teams, talk to scouts, get advice and areas for improvement, and if you hear you will be undrafted go back to school. Or hear you are a late second rounder with no guaranteed money and go back to school. Or hear you will be offered a guaranteed contract and leave your name in. Don't see any downside.

DallasFlyer · #14 04-21-2016, 07:27 PM

I've actually been wondering why he hadn't done that.

Flyer68 · #15 04-21-2016, 08:32 PM

I strongly support anyone who is trying to better himself or herself. But here we have a player, who was not happy with his status or thought that he was better than he was at JMU so he decided to transfer out to UD. Okay, so he was looking out for himself. So now after one year, where at the end of the year, I thought that he hurt us more than he helped us, he decides that I want out of here and to turn pro. Those missed shots at the end of the year were they to impress pro scouts or to win games for UD? Tells me that he does not want to be at UD and, if the NBA entry does not work out this year, do I want a player who does not want to be here or is playing as an individual, not as a team player, to impress the scouts in next year's NBA draft?

CJ2etc · #16 04-21-2016, 08:49 PM

Way too much Charles bashing right now. Without him we don't even sniff the NCAA this year. He for most of the year was by far the best player on our team, played the best defense and looked like he hated to lose. He did struggle towards the end of the year but he certainly wasn't the only one who did so.

I saw nothing from him this year that looked like selfish play to me. He looked like he never wanted to come off the floor and hated to lose. We could use a few more Charles Cooke's on this team.

Just my $.02

BRob2Perryman3 · #17 04-21-2016, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by CJ2etc

Way too much Charles bashing right now. Without him we don't even sniff the NCAA this year. He for most of the year was by far the best player on our team, played the best defense and looked like he hated to lose. He did struggle towards the end of the year but he certainly wasn't the only one who did so.

I saw nothing from him this year that looked like selfish play to me. He looked like he never wanted to come off the floor and hated to lose. We could use a few more Charles Cooke's on this team.

Just my $.02

You want more guys sleeping with his teammates girlfriends? Isnt one enough?

udflyerhoops2 · #18 04-21-2016, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

You want more guys sleeping with his teammates girlfriends? Isnt one enough?

BroCode aside, the great Chris Rock once said, "A man is only as faithful as his options!"

From the sleuthing done on UD Pride, it looks like he had an extra option.

TX Flyer · #19 04-21-2016, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Flyer68

I strongly support anyone who is trying to better himself or herself. But here we have a player, who was not happy with his status or thought that he was better than he was at JMU so he decided to transfer out to UD. Okay, so he was looking out for himself. So now after one year, where at the end of the year, I thought that he hurt us more than he helped us, he decides that I want out of here and to turn pro. Those missed shots at the end of the year were they to impress pro scouts or to win games for UD? Tells me that he does not want to be at UD and, if the NBA entry does not work out this year, do I want a player who does not want to be here or is playing as an individual, not as a team player, to impress the scouts in next year's NBA draft?

4/20 was yesterday...time to come back down

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

You want more guys sleeping with his teammates girlfriends? Isnt one enough?

And this has been confirmed? **** i get red blipped for while being a fact you're gonna get hit hard. But I hope it's not true

BRob2Perryman3 · #20 04-21-2016, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by TX Flyer

4/20 was yesterday...time to come back down

And this has been confirmed? **** i get red blipped for while being a fact you're gonna get hit hard. But I hope it's not true

Ive had it confirmed from 2 different credible people. Not to mention the RAMPANT rumors. Second worst kept secret on campus this year behind the Pierre railroad job

And trust me i do just fine on my own getting my fair share of red pips.

DallasFlyer · #21 04-21-2016, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

You want more guys sleeping with his teammates girlfriends? Isnt one enough?

First I've ever seen an extracurricular group situation proposed. That would really be taking trueteam to a whole 'nother level.

ud69 · #22 04-22-2016, 12:08 AM

This team chemistry stuff is way overblown. CC's numbers this past year were very similar to Sibert's the year before. I will say that Sibert may have hit more big shots. However, I believe Cooke's defense was superior to Sibert's - i.e his job on Bembry in the A-10 tournament - perhaps the only time this past year Bembry did not reach double digits in points.

IMHOP - Our biggest issues late in the season were Pollard's health problems and baby "D" s AWOL jump shot.

Justin · #23 04-22-2016, 09:15 AM

I wish him well and hope he finds what he is looking for. Not much UD on his twitter page anymore, so he may be wanting to find himself a new chapter. He has done some great things for us as a team the past season, good luck Charles!

It begs the question though, if Cooke stays, could this team beat the 95-96 Bulls?

T-Bone 84 · #24 04-22-2016, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by CJ2etc

Way too much Charles bashing right now. Without him we don't even sniff the NCAA this year. He for most of the year was by far the best player on our team, played the best defense and looked like he hated to lose. He did struggle towards the end of the year but he certainly wasn't the only one who did so.

I saw nothing from him this year that looked like selfish play to me. He looked like he never wanted to come off the floor and hated to lose. We could use a few more Charles Cooke's on this team.

Just my $.02

While I agree with much of your post, I need to respectfully disagree with your comments about no selfish play this year. He may not have been an Allen Iverson or World B Free out there, but I recall plenty of moments this past year when the good play called for him to pass it and he shot it instead. So, he wasn't exactly Mother Teresa out there as far as "giving of himself" was concerned.

Frankly, I don't blame the kid for wanting to see where he stacks-up relative to other draft hopefuls. And I hope he (and all our Flyers) make the most of themselves in their lives after UD. But if he pulls his name out, and comes back for his Senior season, he needs to play as a member of a team that's trying to make it to (and win games in) The Dance, not as an individual who's trying to impress NBA scouts & improve his own draft prospects. This team, this program, this community doesn't need that latter guy in uniform. We need guys with the mindset of Vee Sanford: "Team First".
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ud69 · #25 04-22-2016, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84

While I agree with much of your post, I need to respectfully disagree with your comments about no selfish play this year. He may not have been an Allen Iverson or World B Free out there, but I recall plenty of moments this past year when the good play called for him to pass it and he shot it instead. So, he wasn't exactly Mother Teresa out there as far as "giving of himself" was concerned.

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Specific examples?

CJ2etc · #26 04-22-2016, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3

You want more guys sleeping with his teammates girlfriends? Isnt one enough?

I heard he thought she was the slumpbuster.

jack72 · #27 04-22-2016, 10:08 AM

I think I saw that the entire UK team put their name in the draft without agents.

Cooke is a good player but will have little chance of going in round 2.

San Diego Flyer · #28 04-22-2016, 01:34 PM

Call me crazy but at this moment in time, DP moved a tad bit higher than Charles on the scouting scale due to his performance on the winning club at Portsmouth. But neither a second rounder.

MrFlyerFanatic · #29 04-22-2016, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

Call me crazy but at this moment in time, DP moved a tad bit higher than Charles on the scouting scale due to his performance on the winning club at Portsmouth. But neither a second rounder.

I agree in a way.
In my opinion, Charles has more of the flash that gets attention when it comes to getting drafted. When it comes to getting invited to camp, making a team, and hanging around the league for 8-10 years, I think DP has the skill set that gets a lot of invitations and his court awareness makes guys around him better.

John C. · #30 04-22-2016, 04:27 PM

If Cooke leaves I just don't see a long run in the tournament next year. There is no one on this team that can do what he does. If he, indeed, did sleep with Scoochie's girl friend then shame on him. I know that would have pi$$ed me off. However, I sure wouldn't call her much of a girlfriend.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #31 04-22-2016, 04:37 PM

My money is on us never seeing Cooke in a Flyers uniform again. Just a hunch.
I wish him well.

As for next season, I am not worried one bit. A core group of 3 seniors who by the time they graduate will have won more games both in the regular season and the NCAA tourney than any other Flyer class, another year for Big Steve to mature, Cunningham eligible, Baby D with renewed focus and hopefully fewer distractions in his personal life, and a year of hard work and maturity for last years group of freshmen. Oh yea, and some guy named Archie on the sidelines surrounded by one of the hardest working and most loyal staffs in college basketball.

I see a 30 win season on the horizon! Go Flyers

Smitty10 · #32 04-22-2016, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by John C.

If Cooke leaves I just don't see a long run in the tournament next year. There is no one on this team that can do what he does. If he, indeed, did sleep with Scoochie's girl friend then shame on him. I know that would have pi$$ed me off. However, I sure wouldn't call her much of a girlfriend.

The girlfriend really has nothing to do with the team issues at this point.

First of all, it was the ultimate betrayal and disrespect a person can do to another. I'm guessing this is no longer just Scooch and Charles. It's not an easy thing for the rest of the team to swallow either I'm guessing. Human nature wouldn't be "Oh, he did it to another teammate and not me so it's all good." No, human nature would be "He did it to another teammate and he would've easily done it to me too if given the chance.". It's not something so easily swept under the rug and it's all on Cooke, if the events are as being presented here. Not an easy thing to put aside, and get back to the high fiving and camaraderie that teams need to propel themselves to being the best they can be.

rollo · #33 04-22-2016, 08:53 PM

The Lakers understand how important 'trust' is in a locker room and for a team. As with them, someone may have to 'go'.

Buster Goode · #34 04-23-2016, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by John C.

If Cooke leaves I just don't see a long run in the tournament next year. There is no one on this team that can do what he does. If he, indeed, did sleep with Scoochie's girl friend then shame on him. I know that would have pi$$ed me off. However, I sure wouldn't call her much of a girlfriend.

Not sure if by tournament you mean the A10 tournament because if Cooke leaves, I doubt we make the tournament next year.

JimBo · #35 04-23-2016, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Goode

Not sure if by tournament you mean the A10 tournament because if Cooke leaves, I doubt we make the tournament next year.

I just do not agree with this doom and gloom scenario that some are clinging to. This program is beyond the point where losing one player crashes a season. If Cooke would leave, I think there would be some growing pains, but I think there is enough talent there that they could overcome it.

If the loss of one single player is such a concern, than maybe this program isn't as far along that we all thought. IMO, it is.

rollo · #36 04-23-2016, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by JimBo

I just do not agree with this doom and gloom scenario that some are clinging to. This program is beyond the point where losing one player crashes a season. If Cooke would leave, I think there would be some growing pains, but I think there is enough talent there that they could overcome it.

If the loss of one single player is such a concern, than maybe this program isn't as far along that we all thought. IMO, it is.

King Rollo, ruler of all things both good and evil, agrees!

If UD is a True Team, its success is not dependent upon 1 person. Check out the Golden DNutz Awards...we had 8 or 9 winners over the course of the season. Which is what I'd royally expect from My Team!

BTW...Pollard > Cooke

UD62 · #37 04-23-2016, 11:43 AM

Agree we are beyond the one player makes the team stage. And KP may well be better than CC, however getting KP to play a full season could be difficult. He seems injury plagued. I also believe the trueteam concept is pretty much dead. Was alive and well two years ago when we were shorthanded and successful, but last year pretty much killed it. If CC stays or goes, both options have negative impacts on the team. Josh will help but the sophs to be had better step up their game if they are to be a positive force this upcoming season. Thought we would be in a little stronger position after the NCAA runs, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

PerrymanFan · #38 04-23-2016, 12:07 PM

After witnessing what Archie and Co.was able to do with 6 scholarship players in 14-15, I have no doubt that he will adjust if CC leaves. They'll still have an entire summer to plan and figure it out, and three returning senior studs.

I enjoyed watching CC this year, he's very talented on both sides of the ball. But this behavior is poisonous. This is Scoochie's team, fall in line or move on.

Smitty10 · #39 04-23-2016, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by JimBo

I just do not agree with this doom and gloom scenario that some are clinging to. This program is beyond the point where losing one player crashes a season. If Cooke would leave, I think there would be some growing pains, but I think there is enough talent there that they could overcome it.

If the loss of one single player is such a concern, than maybe this program isn't as far along that we all thought. IMO, it is.

Agree. After 2014, we lost, Kavs, DMO, Sanford and Price. We also lost Gavs. One month into the next season we lost Scott, Robinson and Bass. And one transfer that was counted upon didn't play a single second in Rogers. And somehow we're going to fall apart if we lose Cooke 3 seasons later? smh.

San Diego Flyer · #40 04-24-2016, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Agree. After 2014, we lost, Kavs, DMO, Sanford and Price. We also lost Gavs. One month into the next season we lost Scott, Robinson and Bass. And one transfer that was counted upon didn't play a single second in Rogers. And somehow we're going to fall apart if we lose Cooke 3 seasons later? smh.

Simply means some kids are going to have to grow into men a lot faster than they did this season. That can happen, but maybe not in ooc.

UD62 · #41 04-24-2016, 11:39 AM

I see CBS sports has CC ranked as the 46th declared player with a draft range of 2nd round to undrafted.
.

Justin · #42 04-25-2016, 08:43 AM

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...enter-top-five

Originally Posted by UD62

I see CBS sports has CC ranked as the 46th declared player with a draft range of 2nd round to undrafted.
.

jack72 · #43 04-25-2016, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Justin

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...enter-top-five

This has Cooke at #106. Bembry at #56. No mention of Pierre.

rollo · #44 04-25-2016, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by jack72

This has Cooke at #106. Bembry at #56. No mention of Pierre.

Did you expect to see Pierre? I didn't.

oRed · #45 04-25-2016, 10:13 AM

dime a dozen guards are not highly sought after in NBA draft...if anything this is CC seeing where he stands and if there are any future suitors what they expect to see from him from a growth standpoint.

jack72 · #46 04-25-2016, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

Did you expect to see Pierre? I didn't.

After what he showed at Portsmouth, maybe. However, when you see Georges Niang from Iowa St at #109. Na baby, na.

The Gem · #47 04-25-2016, 08:42 PM

If Charles leaves on a good or bad note, I am 100% ok with Davis and Davis at the 2 spot. I think we will be just fine.

TerryK_67 · #48 04-25-2016, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

After what he showed at Portsmouth, maybe. However, when you see Georges Niang from Iowa St at #109. Na baby, na.

In my opinion Niang was a real good college player, but I don't think he can do those same things at the pro level .. way too many bigger and stronger defenders. I think he may make a team, but will struggle......

FLYER5 · #49 04-25-2016, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

After what he showed at Portsmouth, maybe. However, when you see Georges Niang from Iowa St at #109. Na baby, na.

I really think that Cooke has a much better projection to the NBA than Pierre. Dyshawn had mismatches in college similar to what Jared Sullinger had at Ohio State, and I think that is a good comparison as to how I think Pierre would top-out in the league.
Cooke on the other hand may have better matchups at the next level size-wise than in college, and thereby a higher projection. I would not sleep on him being draft-worthy next year, if he remains a Flyer.
Always hear the cliché about the length in players that scouts look for, but Cooke has muscle, athleticism and quickness to go with his. Plus he's an immensely improved defender from the player that came from JMU. He's put on film that he is determined to get better and he's succeeded to transform in one season, coached by a new staff. That appeals to scouts I think.
I also think he gets sold short on his handle. He gets the ball slapped away when he sells out with his eyes some I've noticed, but when he's on the move he has a solid handle, imo. He sold himself pretty well really looking back. (Kicks rocks)
I was in his corner from the start but by compiling my thoughts over time it seems I keep getting the feeling he is a maverick and not the epitome of a great teammate.
Or maybe there were extenuating circumstances surrounding his acceptance by teammates that I don't know about. Definitely a rift though between him and at least one other starter. And in that regard I'll be glad when he's gone.

Buster Goode · #50 04-26-2016, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Agree. After 2014, we lost, Kavs, DMO, Sanford and Price. We also lost Gavs. One month into the next season we lost Scott, Robinson and Bass. And one transfer that was counted upon didn't play a single second in Rogers. And somehow we're going to fall apart if we lose Cooke 3 seasons later? smh.

I never said we would fall apart, but I definitely believe we don't make the tournament without him. That's not falling apart -- we could still win 20 games. Previous years, yes, we lost some good players and we had stronger seasons because we had guys good enough to step up. This past year didn't show me we had a lot of that type of talent in the lower classmen except Steve.

A lot of the players you named above except DMO and Sanford are not even close to the level of Cooke. Can't believe you threw Gavs in there....

Sea Bass · #51 04-26-2016, 07:45 AM

Cooke is an excellent defender that can cover multiple positions. That and a decent ability to shoot and handle the ball will allow him to eventually find a spot on an NBA roster.

rollo · #52 04-26-2016, 07:48 AM

If Cunningham is as advertised, I believe the he and Cooke would be interchangeable parts. Both on the roster would be nice, but if one is hurt or leaves, the other plays the same style....in other words, as long as everyone continues to pee in the men's room at Tim's, King Rollo isn't worried.

DallasFlyer · #53 04-26-2016, 08:19 AM

Cooke and Cunningham are very different players. Cunningham is much closer to a replacement for Dyshawn Pierre than Charles Cooke.

BallgameJohnny · #54 04-26-2016, 08:32 AM

Baby D needs to improve 1000% if he is going to play significant minutes for anyone.

oRed · #55 04-26-2016, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Sea Bass

Cooke is an excellent defender that can cover multiple positions. That and a decent ability to shoot and handle the ball will allow him to eventually find a spot on an NBA roster.

his prospects are as good as anyone we've had recently but he's not going to be drafted this year and unless he has an A10 player of the year type season next year then he's not going to be drafted next year either. There are really good guards everywhere...Charles needs to become a more consistent offensive threat from the perimeter and 80% from the line if he wants to get drafted. Guards in the NBA are deadly shooters when left open from all over the court and at this point that's not Charles Cooke. Charles has all the assets to make a lot of money playing hoops if he makes it his sole focus over the next couple of years.

maddog07 · #56 04-26-2016, 08:42 AM

If left undrafted which is likely, wonder what the odds are that he returns rather than go to Europe or development league? Seems he has some level of discontent with the current situation, may not be interested in getting a degree in General Studies. Also wonder who his favorite General is- I suspect Eisenhower.

Bucketnight · #57 04-26-2016, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Goode

I never said we would fall apart, but I definitely believe we don't make the tournament without him. That's not falling apart -- we could still win 20 games. Previous years, yes, we lost some good players and we had stronger seasons because we had guys good enough to step up. This past year didn't show me we had a lot of that type of talent in the lower classmen except Steve.

A lot of the players you named above except DMO and Sanford are not even close to the level of Cooke. Can't believe you threw Gavs in there....

I think we will have progressed when making the tournament isn't the goal entering the season. The issue I see is that without Cooke, that does seem like it would be the goal. With Cooke and Cunningham, hopefully the goal means EXPECTING to win games in the tournament.

As "declaring" for the draft in many instances, I think Cooke did the right thing. I actually thought Scoochie might as well. Having top evaluators give you feedback should be viewed as a positive. I hope we have a player or 2 declare every year.

Gilchrist's Autograph 2 · #58 04-26-2016, 09:13 AM

For what it's worth I had a dream last night that Cunningham was draining long range threes for the Flyers and owning the court. Of course, he was wearing a blue windbreaker while he was playing. But I take that as a good omen!
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BeckysTXA · #59 04-26-2016, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Bucketnight

As "declaring" for the draft in many instances, I think Cooke did the right thing. I actually thought Scoochie might as well. Having top evaluators give you feedback should be viewed as a positive. I hope we have a player or 2 declare every year.

I agree with this 1000%. This only helps the program in recruits' perceived value. These guys want to go to a solid - winning collegiate program, but they also want a chance to get better and play in the NBA. So if we have 2-3 players a year declaring for the draft and getting these evaluations that helps the program and the players. I hope we get to the point we also have an occasional player get drafted early. I'm not looking for a bunch of those, but occasionally we land a recruit that goes early. That's the tradeoff if we want to take this program to the next level.

DallasFlyer · #60 04-26-2016, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by maddog07

If left undrafted which is likely, wonder what the odds are that he returns rather than go to Europe or development league? Seems he has some level of discontent with the current situation, may not be interested in getting a degree in General Studies. Also wonder who his favorite General is- I suspect Eisenhower.

If he stayed in the draft, and went undrafted then the odds of him returning would be zero because he would be ineligible. He is simply going through the pre-draft process, but ultimately will withdraw to retain his last year of eligibility.

Ready Action · #61 04-26-2016, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by maddog07

If left undrafted which is likely, wonder what the odds are that he returns rather than go to Europe or development league? Seems he has some level of discontent with the current situation, may not be interested in getting a degree in General Studies. Also wonder who his favorite General is- I suspect Eisenhower.

Urban Meyer agrees that school can hinder a player's pro development.

DallasFlyer · #62 04-26-2016, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2

For what it's worth I had a dream last night that Cunningham was draining long range threes for the Flyers and owning the court. Of course, he was wearing a blue windbreaker while he was playing. But I take that as a good omen!
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I have dreamt some crazy dreams but a 23% 3 point shooter raining threes just about tops them all!

jack72 · #63 04-26-2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2

For what it's worth I had a dream last night that Cunningham was draining long range threes for the Flyers and owning the court. Of course, he was wearing a blue windbreaker while he was playing. But I take that as a good omen!
Posted via Mobile Device

I had that same dream, and President Kasich was sitting in the stands with his VP, Bernie Sanders.

Smitty10 · #64 04-26-2016, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Goode

I never said we would fall apart, but I definitely believe we don't make the tournament without him. That's not falling apart -- we could still win 20 games. Previous years, yes, we lost some good players and we had stronger seasons because we had guys good enough to step up. This past year didn't show me we had a lot of that type of talent in the lower classmen except Steve.

A lot of the players you named above except DMO and Sanford are not even close to the level of Cooke. Can't believe you threw Gavs in there....

I threw his name in there because he would've helped the team the following year due to such a short bench. Maybe the others aren't close to the level of Cooke, but that season we were better off with a close to true center like Kavs and a 2nd year PG like Price than we would've been if either of those 2 weren't there and Cooke(at his jr/sr level) was.

The sheer amount of volume lost between the elite eight run and 9 months later would be much more of a factor than losing one player, no matter how good you deem him. It's to the point that there's only one single loss that can bring this program down and that would be Archie. Seems that when he has that true team chemistry(which as it appears now, Cooke helped destroy) he can make lemonade out of lemons.

Gazoo · #65 04-26-2016, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny

Baby D needs to improve 1000% if he is going to play significant minutes for anyone.

Ironic that his name has so many D's and his game has so few.

DallasFlyer · #66 04-26-2016, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Ironic that his name has so many D's and his game has so few.

Speak for yourself. If I were grading his game this past season, I would for sure have awarded him some Ds.

UDBaby · #67 04-26-2016, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Ironic that his name has so many D's and his game has so few.

Gotta disagree Gaz...if anything, the only decent part of DD's game this year was his D IMO. Always seemed to have been locked-in.

His problem was handling jock on jock D when he has the ball.

flybye · #68 04-26-2016, 02:00 PM

Charles is the key to us being a really good team. lets hope he can come back and we can move forward. There is no replacement for what he can do on the roster. He can help make us elite.

Smitty10 · #69 04-26-2016, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by flybye

Charles is the key to us being a really good team. lets hope he can come back and we can move forward. There is no replacement for what he can do on the roster. He can help make us elite.

Without Cooke, we will have to become a different team. We will have to be much more selective in our 3 point shots and be a team proficient in getting the ball inside. We will also have to be the same on D, give up a lot more 3s and a lot less 2s. We will have to own the boards, and with an improved Steve, Pollard and Cunningham, that doesn't seem like much of a reach.

Archie will find a way with what he has to work with.

anthonycharles · #70 04-26-2016, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Without Cooke, we will have to become a different team.

And dare I say TrueTeam will be back? I don't mean this to diss Cooke, but he plays too much one on one for my liking. Yes, his scoring and defense would be missed, but I want this team to get back to that team passing again on offense. It was missing last year.

maddog07 · #71 04-26-2016, 09:24 PM

Can't see us being very good without Cooke. Beyond his offense he's a great defender and rebounder.

Cunningham is a complete unknown post injury. Might also be true about Pollard . We'd have very little in the way of 3pt offense . Most concerning is how we'd be even more vulnerable to other injury.

ud69 · #72 04-27-2016, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

And dare I say TrueTeam will be back? I don't mean this to diss Cooke, but he plays too much one on one for my liking. Yes, his scoring and defense would be missed, but I want this team to get back to that team passing again on offense. It was missing last year.

Can you give examples of his one on one play? I just never got that impression. Now, there may have been times he forced a shot or 2, but with Baby D's shooting woes, Pollard's injuries, Big Steve's foul trouble, and Pierre's early season suspension, he was our most consistent offensive player. Defensively, with his length and athleticism, he was our stopper.

DallasFlyer · #73 04-27-2016, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

And dare I say TrueTeam will be back? I don't mean this to diss Cooke, but he plays too much one on one for my liking. Yes, his scoring and defense would be missed, but I want this team to get back to that team passing again on offense. It was missing last year.

Nonsense. Charles Cooke averaged nearly two assists per game and shared the basketball very well. He was brought here to fill Sibert's void and score. And he did that very well. Honestly, his shot selection was better than Jordan Sibert's in my opinion. Jordan tried to do too much at times and took bad shots at the height of "true team." And true team is about playing both ends of the court and Charles Cooke got after it on defense. Judging by his play on the court only, Cooke was GREAT.

I feel like people forget that "true team" is a marketing gimmick, a motivational thing. Establishing a culture is one thing, but winning is the main thing. For all I care this team can adapt a new mantra. How about Real Life? You don't love everyone you work with and these guys don't have to even like each other. If they hate losing enough, and truly buy in to Archie's system, they are absolutely talented enough to make another NCAA run.

To do that, I think they need Charles Cooke. And I think Scoochie regardless of his feelings for Charles would tell you he's a darn good player, and one Dayton needs. Real life.

Buster Goode · #74 04-27-2016, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by The Gem

If Charles leaves on a good or bad note, I am 100% ok with Davis and Davis at the 2 spot. I think we will be just fine.

Okay, but what about Cooke's spot, the three? Davis and Davis were at the 2 last year and your statement is completely irrelevant to Cooke's potential departure. After what I saw last year, I'm not very fine with D. Davis getting more minutes.

Gazoo · #75 04-27-2016, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by UDBaby

Gotta disagree Gaz...if anything, the only decent part of DD's game this year was his D IMO. Always seemed to have been locked-in.

His problem was handling jock on jock D when he has the ball.

DD played significantly harder on defense than his freshman year, and I would even say significantly better. But he was still the worst defender on the team at the guard position for anyone playing 9 minutes per game or more.

Said differently, the only guy worse was Mikesell. Yes Crosby was better by the end of the year (mainly because he's quicker).

We were a decent defensive team, but the 5th best defender at the guard position on just about any team isn't a great honor.

DallasFlyer · #76 04-27-2016, 09:15 AM

Darrell had some huge steals. Got in the passing lane to deflect passes. Maybe the defensive metrics show otherwise, but I think he's a better defender at this stage than Crosby.

UDDoug · #77 04-27-2016, 10:58 AM

I don't think so. Not sure you can even make that comparison to Crosby, who is typically defending on the ball rather than off it.

DD defending on the ball is awful.

SeasonTicketFan · #78 04-27-2016, 11:00 AM

Darrell like most players made key contributions at certain times.
He made a big difference in the Vanderbilt game late in the first half. Without his spark, UD does not win that game. Interestingly, Sam Miller made some big plays in the second half of that game.

Xeyrius held his own in OT against VCU. John made some spark plays off the bench a couple of times when the offense was stagnant.

superfan99 · #79 04-27-2016, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

Darrell like most players made key contributions at certain times.
He made a big difference in the Vanderbilt game late in the first half. Without his spark, UD does not win that game. Interestingly, Sam Miller made some big plays in the second half of that game.

Xeyrius held his own in OT against VCU. John made some spark plays off the bench a couple of times when the offense was stagnant.

STF...you are going to have to find a platform outside of the internet if you are going to spout this glass half full nonsense.

jack72 · #80 04-27-2016, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Darrell had some huge steals. Got in the passing lane to deflect passes. Maybe the defensive metrics show otherwise, but I think he's a better defender at this stage than Crosby.

Not a place to go. Let these guys stand on their own skill set. They guard different people. Crosby in an excellent defender, and DD has become very good one. Davis' long arms and strides make him a tough matchup, but his speed at times hurts him. Crosby is very quick and anticipates well and jumps great, but he does not have the arms and reach.

Why are we on Davis' defense? His only problems are his yips on shooting and dribbling.

maddog07 · #81 04-27-2016, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by superfan99

STF...you are going to have to find a platform outside of the internet if you are going to spout this glass half full nonsense.

More like 10 percent full. Dispite the few " moments of brilliance" cited, most of the the time they were severely lacking-- and hardly seem ready to take the place of our first team All conference player.
Posted via Mobile Device

FLYER5 · #82 04-27-2016, 02:51 PM

Guards different people? Doesn't our starting two-guard check the best scorer/ball-handler on the other team? Poor comparison, imo.

BRob2Perryman3 · #83 04-27-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by FLYER5

Guards different people? Doesn't our starting two-guard check the best scorer/ball-handler on the other team? Poor comparison, imo.

I am going to miss Kyle Davis big time. Big time.

That is all. Carry on

Buster Goode · #84 04-28-2016, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

Darrell like most players made key contributions at certain times.
He made a big difference in the Vanderbilt game late in the first half. Without his spark, UD does not win that game. Interestingly, Sam Miller made some big plays in the second half of that game.

Xeyrius held his own in OT against VCU. John made some spark plays off the bench a couple of times when the offense was stagnant.

That's an extremely small sample of a very long season. I wish there was more, but we merely didn't get enough of these types of contributions from the underclassmen.

steve · #85 04-28-2016, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

And dare I say TrueTeam will be back? I don't mean this to diss Cooke, but he plays too much one on one for my liking. Yes, his scoring and defense would be missed, but I want this team to get back to that team passing again on offense. It was missing last year.

On a team full of non-shooters and scorers you better have a guy like CC. If anything the guy was too unselfish last year at least in regards to basketball and shooting the ball especially with the new shot clock rule. He's the most skilled offensive player by light years on this team and can create a shot where most others simply can't with an expiring shot clock..

This team will NOT make the tourney next year without CC unless you see absolute drastic shooting improvement from at least 2-3 guys...You will get it from 1, MAYBE 2, but stripes rarely change on players lacking that skill 3-4 years into their college career..

longtimefan67 · #86 04-28-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by jack72

I had that same dream, and President Kasich was sitting in the stands with his VP, Bernie Sanders.

Please tell me in that dream that Hillary wasn't Secretary of State again...

rollo · #87 04-28-2016, 08:32 AM

Every time I tell the Queen about my Royal dreams she slaps me.

longtimefan67 · #88 04-28-2016, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by steve

On a team full of non-shooters and scorers you better have a guy like CC. If anything the guy was too unselfish last year at least in regards to basketball and shooting the ball especially with the new shot clock rule. He's the most skilled offensive player by light years on this team and can create a shot where most others simply can't with an expiring shot clock..

This team will NOT make the tourney next year without CC unless you see absolute drastic shooting improvement from at least 2-3 guys...You will get it from 1, MAYBE 2, but stripes rarely change on players lacking that skill 3-4 years into their college career..

I have to disagree. CC has skills, no question. But SS, in my opinion, held back this year to involve others. He clearly has shown he can take a game over and did so several times (ESPN player of the week is a notable example). He's skilled as much as CC.

Kendal just needs to work on shooting technique but...he also played the year with significant injuries and when healthy, very few defenders can stop.

KD, also apparently played with significant injuries this year (had an operation in the off-season last year IIRC on his hand as well) - so we didn't really see what he's capable of. He took over several games late this year as well - one of my all time favorites btw, ditto KP and SS - these guys are just winners.

This is team effort; if these guys can get healthy, stay healthy - you'll see a different result in the NCAA next year.

San Diego Flyer · #89 04-28-2016, 09:50 AM

Getting healthy and staying healthy are the two main speed bumps in all programs. Our schedule won't be any easier this next season. Blend that with the fact that we ask Kyle to guard and compete every game against bigger players (and often the best guard/wing). And also challenging Kendall to play big in the lane and bang a lot. Scoochie works his arse off every game running the offense, trying to get to the lane, and getting pounded going to the rim. With no really reliable relief man so far.

Just saying it would take a small miracle for us not to incur injuries for a whole season. We have to depend on the "next man up" theory.

DallasFlyer · #90 04-28-2016, 09:50 AM

Basically, I felt that last years team really could have benefited from one more consistent perimeter shooter. Was hoping to add one this year, not take one away you know...

Sea Bass · #91 04-28-2016, 09:53 AM

Last years team would have greatly benefitted from better ball movement. There was a noticeable drop off in that area from prior years.

steve · #92 04-28-2016, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by longtimefan67

I have to disagree. CC has skills, no question. But SS, in my opinion, held back this year to involve others. He clearly has shown he can take a game over and did so several times (ESPN player of the week is a notable example). He's skilled as much as CC.

Kendal just needs to work on shooting technique but...he also played the year with significant injuries and when healthy, very few defenders can stop.

KD, also apparently played with significant injuries this year (had an operation in the off-season last year IIRC on his hand as well) - so we didn't really see what he's capable of. He took over several games late this year as well - one of my all time favorites btw, ditto KP and SS - these guys are just winners.

This is team effort; if these guys can get healthy, stay healthy - you'll see a different result in the NCAA next year.

SS "held back" this year because A) that's not his mentality of being a scorer nor is he built mentally or prepared to have that "score first" mentality tag. Some guys are very aggressive that way and not quite laid-back, and B) he's a PG and his job IS to involve others and his head coach, being a PG himself, will never underestimate that importance. Only when this offense stagnated as much as it did did Archie get on SS about taking the ball to the rack more. And I can tell you that without CC on the floor and no other real scorers that SS would struggle far more to get into the paint..

SS is very talented but he doesn't even have a jump shot (it's a set shot) or an ability to shoot a jumper off the dribble..It's not even close the offensive skill-set between SS and CC. Plus, CC is 6'5", very long-limbed, has an NBA body, tremendously fast, and can jump out of the gym. SS does not have any of those qualities..

KD and KP, while excellent players and have their strengths, are not shooters or scorers within the half-court offense in being able to create themselves...KD gets his points in transition and, yes, has hit some big shots (but he ain't no scorer nor is he even close to a skilled shooter) and KP needs to get the ball in his hands and that's by a PG or else he's a time bomb in committing offensive fouls. Yes, KP can beat some guys to the rack . KP can easily still get 2 fouls in the first 6 minutes of a game by trying to take over...

Gazoo · #93 04-28-2016, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan

Darrell like most players made key contributions at certain times.
He made a big difference in the Vanderbilt game late in the first half. Without his spark, UD does not win that game. Interestingly, Sam Miller made some big plays in the second half of that game.

Xeyrius held his own in OT against VCU. John made some spark plays off the bench a couple of times when the offense was stagnant.

You ought to remember the steals DD had, since he only had 11 of them all year! Speaking of Xeyrius and Sam, they played about 1/3 of the minutes of DD, and Xeyrius had the same number of steals (11) while Sam managed 7 steals and he was guarding post men.

Lest I be misquoted, I'm not saying DD is the worst Flyer defender I've ever seen, just that I think he's below average. But he has the potential for getting much better over his final 2 years. It could happen, I just haven't seen it quite yet.

anthonycharles · #94 04-28-2016, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sea Bass

Last years team would have greatly benefitted from better ball movement. There was a noticeable drop off in that area from prior years.

Exactly, and while he is not entirely to blame, I felt Cooke was a ball stopper too often. I want him back, don't get me wrong, but if he doesn't come back, the sky isn't falling.

Canonball · #95 04-29-2016, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Sea Bass

Last years team would have greatly benefitted from better ball movement. There was a noticeable drop off in that area from prior years.

Everybody benefits when it happens the way it supposed to happen. Best rotation ends up getting the ball to the guy with his feet set and shoulders squared up to the basket (unless you're Curry).

steve · #96 04-29-2016, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

Exactly, and while he is not entirely to blame, I felt Cooke was a ball stopper too often. I want him back, don't get me wrong, but if he doesn't come back, the sky isn't falling.

I think the lack of ball movement had far more to do with a 6'11" presence in the middle and one who could walk AND chew gum at the same time which is something UD had not had in years..
We saw great ball movement early on and then teams figured out Big Steve and Steve could not figure out how to stop fouling so he/they never seemed to get in good rhythm.They designed plays to get him the ball but if the BIG isn't getting to the spot or if the entry pass isn't getting there in time then things look bad and slow down.

It's not so simple to change an offense from something they've had for years with crisp movement and perimeter players to now waiting on a BIG to find the spot and especially with a new shot clock changed to 30 seconds...There was an abundance of good teams that did not have to go thru the growing process UD did that had issues playing a half-court game with 5 less seconds....

Just my opinion, but give me a Charles Cooke type on the court every year........He's the type of player UD ain't use to acquiring...

ClaytonFlyerFan · #97 04-29-2016, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by steve

I think the lack of ball movement had far more to do with a 6'11" presence in the middle and one who could walk AND chew gum at the same time which is something UD had not had in years...
..

OK, lets say you are right and the lack of ball movement is due to the 6'11 presence in the middle.

The 6'11 guy played 18.3 minutes a game, so how do you explain the lack of ball movement the other 21.7 minutes per game?

Movement seemed to get worse the last 10 or so games of the year

steve · #98 04-29-2016, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan

OK, lets say you are right and the lack of ball movement is due to the 6'11 presence in the middle.

The 6'11 guy played 18.3 minutes a game, so how do you explain the lack of ball movement the other 21.7 minutes per game?

Movement seemed to get worse the last 10 or so games of the year

I definitely agree with you that the last 8-10 games seemed to get worse......Maybe the chemistry started to get worse? We saw that Sam Miller had issues..

IMO, go look at their shooting %'s those last 8-10 games..In one stretch of 5-6 games they were something like 20-90 shooting the 3 ball..Hit 2-3 more per game which is still a lousy % and they win 3 more games and win 27-28 games last year..Plenty of those exact same shots went in earlier in the year.....

Sea Bass · #99 04-29-2016, 01:29 PM

I was expecting the ball movement issues to get much better when Pierre returned because he was a willing passer. Unfortunately, inserting Pierre for Big Steve did not solve the problem and it got much worse late in the season.

Gazoo · #**100** 04-29-2016, 03:32 PM

Working backward from the last game of the season:

Assists / FG / % of assisted FG:
11 / 18 = 61% L
16 / 30 = 53% L
14 / 24 = 58% W
15 / 21 = 71% W
10 / 29 = 34% W
13 / 23 = 56% L
7 / 19 = 37% W
12 / 23 = 52% L
19 / 30 = 63% L
10 / 26 = 38% W
18 / 28 = 64% W
19 / 39 = 49% W
11 / 20 = 55% W

It looks to me like we were sharing the ball equally fine in wins and losses, it's just a matter of putting the ball in the basket more times than the opponent.