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  #201  
Old 03-29-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
First of all- he hasn't made his decision. Secondly, again, see Staten and Meachum (one persons loss is anothers gain)- life goes on... Thirdly, we have several other incoming players.

I may be ****ed as I was with Staten and Meachum, however-our record still ended up good without them...so we'll survive. Real disappointment belongs to AM and the belief that he was here to create a dynasty. I guess I should have known better but he kept saying all the right things. So again, how do we know what the next coach will do? I doubt its a JOB experience agan. But if it is, at least I'll know how to process it.
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No matter what happens or how far UD falls, Archie was 100% worth it. We thought those kind of results were possible. Now, at the very least, we KNOW they are possible. Players and coaches will come and go. Perspective. It's all good.
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  #202  
Old 03-29-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Probably should have worked Tracy Wolfson or Alli LaForce in there somewhere.
Mufasa and Scar too.
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  #203  
Old 03-29-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
No matter what happens or how far UD falls, Archie was 100% worth it. We thought those kind of results were possible. Now, at the very least, we KNOW they are possible. Players and coaches will come and go. Perspective. It's all good.
Agree- i think we've always known it was possible; so AM proved it. I really like AG but have to admit, if we want to at least emulate a successful formula- then we go the route of promoting an assistant coach in the vein of X and Butler and Gonzaga. Not sure I'd want to be the one making this call...we will find out soon.
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  #204  
Old 03-29-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
So I guess you'd lose respect for Crean if he poached all these studs from IU and brought them to UD?

I wouldn't!

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017-in...ruiting-board/

All is Royally fair in politics, war, love and recruiting.
Especially if we get Renko
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  #205  
Old 03-29-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Glad to see DDN changed its " Wright might follow Miller to Indiana" headline to "Archie Miller hopes MW sticks with Dayton" headline and edited their story to now include a long quote from Miller saying just that backed up with MW is a signed Dayton recruit and it's not AMs job to recruit him to Indiana.
But is Archie as sincere in that statement as he was in his many statements about how great UD was, he had everything he needed here, etc, etc. That sounds like more coach-speak. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Wright end up at Indiana.
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  #206  
Old 03-29-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
But is Archie as sincere in that statement as he was in his many statements about how great UD was, he had everything he needed here, etc, etc. That sounds like more coach-speak. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Wright end up at Indiana.
I believe he was being sincere. UD is a fantastic school to coach at, and very few programs in the nation can provide a better mix of strong athletics, great facilities, a rabid fanbase, and the salary needed to hold an elite coach. However, Indiana is just one of those few programs. He can realistically recruit 4 and 5* players year in and year out, will never be shafted with a 7 seed playing a Wichita State due to a mid major bias, and can compete for national championships. UD has grown enormously on the national stage, but we simply aren't at that level yet. If we can get into a power 5+1 or coalesce the remaining high mid majors into a formidable conference, these disparities can be lessened. Until then, it's not unreasonable of a coach like Archie to want to move onto a program that can provide what he needs to realistically compete for the national title
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  #207  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:22 PM
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His sincerity vanished very quickly, didn't it? That was less than a month ago that he made that statement. This is very simple: His stock was high and he sold out. I accept that, but poaching recruits is still unethical. I wouldn't want the IU recruits and I don't want Archie poaching UD's recruits. After all, those are not "Archie's recruits." Those are UD's recruits.
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  #208  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
His sincerity vanished very quickly, didn't it? That was less than a month ago that he made that statement. This is very simple: His stock was high and he sold out. I accept that, but poaching recruits is still unethical. I wouldn't want the IU recruits and I don't want Archie poaching UD's recruits. After all, those are not "Archie's recruits." Those are UD's recruits.
They are UD's recruits for now. There's a good chance they get poached by someone other than Archie, is that going to make you say "those are not Georgetown's recruits, those are UD's recruits.".

What's being forgotten here is if they don't wind up with Archie, it doesn't mean they'll wind up at UD. Are we any better depending on who we lose them to?
  #209  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:43 PM
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recruits make their own decisions
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  #210  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
recruits make their own decisions
I think they are too young to agree with that entirely.

Too many outside forces try to influence them.
  #211  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
They are UD's recruits for now. There's a good chance they get poached by someone other than Archie, is that going to make you say "those are not Georgetown's recruits, those are UD's recruits.".

What's being forgotten here is if they don't wind up with Archie, it doesn't mean they'll wind up at UD. Are we any better depending on who we lose them to?
Oddly, I'm OK with any of our recruits ending up somewhere else; I'm sure all of them had a second choice. I wouldn't be OK with any of them going to IU even though I'm aware its perfectly legal. Legal, but unethical. If it happens, I am definitely going to feel like UD has been used and badly used. Just my opinion.
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  #212  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:13 PM
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UD can restrict where a player signs when they give the release
  #213  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
UD can restrict where a player signs when they give the release
They can but no respectable university or program does that. Opposing coaches will use it against a coach during recruiting.
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  #214  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer14 View Post
Until then, it's not unreasonable of a coach like Archie to want to move onto a program that can provide what he needs to realistically compete for the national title.

It's not unreasonable at all, but it is totally contrary to everything he said over the past 6 years.

Hence, coach-speak. The Millers are experts at it.
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  #215  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
They can but no respectable university or program does that. Opposing coaches will use it against a coach during recruiting.
I think where it is a PR hit is where a school releases a player with a long list of restrictions. We could in theory figure that McKinley would likely end up in the Big Ten if not at Dayton so therefore we just be totally spineless and restrict ALL the Big Ten schools. That would look TERRIBLE and UD would never do that of course. But believe it or not schools have pulled that stuff before. If you restrict one school and one school only for a specific reason, it's not a big deal, unless of course the player makes it one. But I think in theory, Dayton could restrict IU if they really wanted to.
  #216  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Oddly, I'm OK with any of our recruits ending up somewhere else; I'm sure all of them had a second choice. I wouldn't be OK with any of them going to IU even though I'm aware its perfectly legal. Legal, but unethical. If it happens, I am definitely going to feel like UD has been used and badly used. Just my opinion.
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Archie has just stated to ESPN that he will recruit from the "inside out". Meaning the immediate focus will be State of Indiana talent.

He also said this Indiana call was the first time that he gave any call a second thought while he was at UD.
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
It's not unreasonable at all, but it is totally contrary to everything he said over the past 6 years.

Hence, coach-speak. The Millers are experts at it.
Give me a way he could publicly say that he's open to other offers that would make the UD administration happy? The admin knows the game of musical chairs that takes place with successful coaches. They're not as butt-hurt as the fans over this I guarantee it. So If AM went to any UD athletic director and told them "to be honest, I'm open to accepting a job that would knock my socks off." I'm sure the AD would say "Yes, that's natural, but when asked by the press, just tell them that you're very happy at UD and that you're looking forward to advancing the program."

So if you're still butt hurt over this tomorrow, or the next day or week or whatever, blame UD admin because I guarantee they had a say in how open AM was with the press. Heck, I knew he'd leave someday soon when the right offer came around, they sure as heck knew it too. Naive fans are the only one's caught off guard by this, learn your lesson but love the man for giving our program a chance to take off.

The guy is still in his 30s for crying out loud, think about it, who if is top 2 coaching talent in the country is going to make Dayton their home forever when their career has just taken off. I wouldn't. I wouldn't being raised in Dayton and being a Dayton Flyers fan more than any other sports team anywhere. I'd have jumped at the chance to coach IU in my late 30s and so would anybody who's not nuts.

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  #218  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
So if you're still butt hurt over this tomorrow, or the next day or week or whatever, blame UD admin because I guarantee they had a say in how open AM was with the press. Heck, I knew he'd leave someday soon when the right offer came around, they sure as heck knew it too. Naive fans are the only one's caught off guard by this, learn your lesson but love the man for giving our program a chance to take off.

The guy is still in his 30s for crying out loud, think about it, who if is top 2 coaching talent in the country is going to make Dayton their home forever when their career has just taken off. I wouldn't. I wouldn't being raised in Dayton and being a Dayton Flyers fan more than any other sports team anywhere. I'd have jumped at the chance to coach IU in my late 30s and so would anybody who's not nuts.

LOL. Take a deep breath and take your meds, captain. I know you said you met Archie in Hawaii and became totally starstruck, but that doesn't mean the Millers have not mastered coach-speak. They have, anyway you want to spin it. You're not revealing anything that everybody does not already know.
  #219  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
LOL. Take a deep breath and take your meds, captain. I know you said you met Archie in Hawaii and became totally starstruck, but that doesn't mean the Millers have not mastered coach-speak. They have, anyway you want to spin it. You're not revealing anything that everybody does not already know.
I guess since he's a coach, that's better than being bad at it

I appreciate AM for what he's done for the program which if you haven't noticed, is better than anyone else in 50 years. I just thought in Hawaii he was very gracious. Two of us were standing outside and I was smoking a cigarette and it was dark right after the Cal game and everyone was filing off of bus heading for hotel and he stopped to say thanks. Not starstruck, just appreciative.

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  #220  
Old 03-30-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
It's not unreasonable at all, but it is totally contrary to everything he said over the past 6 years.

Hence, coach-speak. The Millers are experts at it.

You know you're exactly right. I think every interview he gave should have been prefaced with "Dayton is a great place...for NOW but I'm not going to stay here forever and as soon as that big P5 job comes I'm "probably" out of here..While I like our recruits and they're "nice" players I'd really like to NOT finish 2nd to Izzo for a few kids...Our conference is just okay and going to Olean is a f____en joke and going to that lousy LaSalle gym is ,well, not even HS worthy..

WTF do you want Miller to say for crying out loud? This ain't a marriage or your first born where you're looking forever at least at that moment. It's a freakin' job and Miller did not define the boundaries and it's no different other than a few zeroes than you not looking around whatever industry you're in and for better opportunities if people came busting your door down wanting you to come work for them. Looking for a place that you can better utilize your skills. Can you, your wife, your family, or your friends emphatically tell their boss right now that they will never leave, never look for better opportunities , that $$$ don't mean squat, etc?

Archie doesn't owe UD S___T anymore other than a sincere thank you and heartfelt expression which he gave...

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  #221  
Old 04-04-2017, 01:10 AM
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Q&A: McKinley Wright Talks About His College Future After Archie Miller Left Dayton for Indiana

http://www.gopherhole.com/news_artic...rrer_id=331171
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  #222  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Q&A: McKinley Wright Talks About His College Future After Archie Miller Left Dayton for Indiana

http://www.gopherhole.com/news_artic...rrer_id=331171
If nothing else the reporter (Chris Monter) is persistent. I wish he would've named names when asking this question however:

"Have you talked to any of the other Dayton signees. I think that I saw that one is going to go to Indiana?"
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
If nothing else the reporter (Chris Monter) is persistent. I wish he would've named names when asking this question however:

"Have you talked to any of the other Dayton signees. I think that I saw that one is going to go to Indiana?"
He wouldn't be able to do that because there is no truth to it. He is obviously a trolling, jock-sniffing, douche bag of a reporter.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
If nothing else the reporter (Chris Monter) is persistent. I wish he would've named names when asking this question however:

"Have you talked to any of the other Dayton signees. I think that I saw that one is going to go to Indiana?"
This has been discussed in the recruits thread. The reporter made it up. A complete falsehood.
  #225  
Old 04-04-2017, 01:18 PM
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So is that fake news or alternative facts?
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  #226  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:56 AM
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2017 shooting guard Al Durham recommits to Indiana, leaving Archie with one less 'ship to steal a UD recruit.
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  #227  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 1903 Flyer View Post
2017 shooting guard Al Durham recommits to Indiana, leaving Archie with one less 'ship to steal a UD recruit.
At this point, I believe that IU is still technically over the scholarship limit.
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  #228  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:58 AM
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honorable mention all american...


http://www.maxpreps.com/news/90GdoEN...rican-team.htm

Congrats young man.
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  #229  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:28 AM
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How did our guy, get POY in SC over this kid? AG needs to stop at his house today while in SC.

Zion Williamson, Spartanburg, SC
6-7 | 230 | Junior | Forward | Uncommitted
Became a national sensation with highlight dunks, putting up 36.8 points, 13.0 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game en route to state title.
  #230  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:05 AM
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Zion Williamson plays for Spartanburg Day School which is a Class AA school... in S. Carolina, HS athletics go from AAAAA down to single A. So AA is like Div. 4 or 5 in Ohio. To make matters worse, SDS is a private Christian school. S. Carolina doesn't have a large network of powerful private schools like we do. Their private schools are mostly religious, but do not typically have strong athletic programs. He is playing some terrible competition... yes dominating it, but terrible. He will end up at N. Carolina, most likely... and will have some learning to do, because all he does now is dunk over frightened 6' tall stringbeans.

Our man Davis performs at AAAAA, like Ohio's Div. 1. Best competition. They got to the State Sweet 16 and lost.

CORRECTION: Zion Williamson actually plays at the mid-level of the SCISA... "S. Carolina Independent School Assoc."... at AA level, which is the middle of 3 levels. In my opinion, probably worse competition than the other S. Carolina High School leagues. There are 25 total high schools at that level. They won regularly by 50+ points. They won one game 89-15.

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  #231  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
How did our guy, get POY in SC over this kid? AG needs to stop at his house today while in SC.

Zion Williamson, Spartanburg, SC
6-7 | 230 | Junior | Forward | Uncommitted
Became a national sensation with highlight dunks, putting up 36.8 points, 13.0 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game en route to state title.
Zion is also the #1 overall prospect for 2018. Not sure if you were being sarcastic but I don't think UD is on his list. Duke/UK/NC are his top 3
  #232  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tlangs98 View Post
Zion is also the #1 overall prospect for 2018. Not sure if you were being sarcastic but I don't think UD is on his list. Duke/UK/NC are his top 3
Yeah, and everyone down here is hoping that the South Carolina Final Four run may help persuade him to become a Gamecock. Pretty sure Frank Martin would literally box out AG if he tried to stop by for a visit.
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  #233  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:36 PM
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Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello

2017 point guard McKinley Wright has requested his release from Dayton, per his coach. Minnesota native. @adidasD1MN
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  #234  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello

2017 point guard McKinley Wright has requested his release from Dayton, per his coach. Minnesota native. @adidasD1MN
His loss. This school and program is so much more than Archie and Ostrom. He's missing out on the greatest four years he would have ever had, at a University he won't match..move on.
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  #235  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:43 PM
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https://twitter.com/Ballislife_025/s...17975249313792
  #236  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:44 PM
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Here is his announcement. UD is still being strongly considered.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife_025/s...313792/photo/1
  #237  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:45 PM
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I'm gonna give this kid the benefit of the doubt for now but "Dayton University" sure isn't making it easy
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  #238  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:48 PM
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Good grief!

DAYTON UNIVERSITY?

REALLY???????

Maybe he is getting feelers from the UNIVERSITY of DUKE
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  #239  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:48 PM
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This also allows Coach Grant to scour the grad transfers for a replacement. We will be fine.
  #240  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
This also allows Coach Grant to scour the grad transfers for a replacement. We will be fine.
This. Not to mention, a grad transfer would help balance out the classes. Not that class balance is too important, but it definitely wouldn't hurt during a transition to a new coaching staff.
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  #241  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
At this point, I believe that IU is still technically over the scholarship limit.
I re-counted...IU is still over the limit...IU is 1 over the limit...IU at 14 scholarship players now.
  #242  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:56 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
DAYTON UNIVERSITY?

REALLY???????

Maybe he is getting feelers from the UNIVERSITY of DUKE
Easier to spell!

Or Notre Dame University.
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
Here is his announcement. UD is still being strongly considered.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife_025/s...313792/photo/1
I think you meant DU
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  #244  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
This also allows Coach Grant to scour the grad transfers for a replacement. We will be fine.
Yes we will be fine. However, a grad transfer will, at best, bring stability and production. Which is great.

MW had the potential (not a guarantee, but potential) to really elevate this program. His ceiling is significantly higher than any of the grad transfers. I know we all want to pretend like this isn't a bad thing. I know it's not a good thing.

I also worry about the other recruits following his path. The trail has been blazed - it is now MUCH easier for the others to do the same.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not in panic mode...but I'm also not just shrugging my shoulders and saying "Oh well".
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:14 PM
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Dayton University? Sayanora and don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Can't blame him much.
  #246  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Yes we will be fine. However, a grad transfer will, at best, bring stability and production. Which is great.

MW had the potential (not a guarantee, but potential) to really elevate this program. His ceiling is significantly higher than any of the grad transfers. I know we all want to pretend like this isn't a bad thing. I know it's not a good thing.

I also worry about the other recruits following his path. The trail has been blazed - it is now MUCH easier for the others to do the same.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not in panic mode...but I'm also not just shrugging my shoulders and saying "Oh well".
Interesting why he would do this within 24-48 hours of meeting AG (he's had a week to do this) unless he really wants to see what Grant is made of from the recruiting standpoint..
  #247  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
Here is his announcement. UD is still being strongly considered.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife_025/s...313792/photo/1
Doubt he's really still considering Dayton. There's too much of a small time frame for him right now to set free, research and then come sign again while the Flyers are going to have to find a backup PG.

Probably put that in there as a long shot manipulation that Dayton will go easy on the restrictions so as to treat him with kid gloves.
  #248  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Interesting why he would do this within 24-48 hours of meeting AG (he's had a week to do this) unless he really wants to see what Grant is made of from the recruiting standpoint..
Dead period ended today at noon. He couldn't talk to other schools while he was signed. I am guessing he was giving UD a week to recruit him and giving them a chance before opening up to other coaches.
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Dead period ended today at noon. He couldn't talk to other schools while he was signed. I am guessing he was giving UD a week to recruit him and giving them a chance before opening up to other coaches.
My initial thoughts were that Grant would have met with the recruits starting early this week prior to the period ending..Yes, gotta have a staff and I'm sure quite busy there but plenty of phone work involved which, seemingly, could have been done in route...
  #250  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:34 PM
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He, and his advisors, think he will get more big time recruitment after that great senior year. Doubt he is, or has, been looking at IU. Someone he sees as bigger and better will now swoop in. I just hope this does not affect the others.

And to McKinley: Dayton is the same great school and program, nothing has changed. The opportunity to start from Day 1 is yours for the easy pickin'.
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  #251  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Doubt he's really still considering Dayton. There's too much of a small time frame for him right now to set free, research and then come sign again while the Flyers are going to have to find a backup PG.

Probably put that in there as a long shot manipulation that Dayton will go easy on the restrictions so as to treat him with kid gloves.
It's easier to resign with the Flyers should he be intrigued, impressed, and sold by AG than anywhere else at least at this moment. I'm thinking he wants the total sell job by AG or he's "in like flint" with Archie..
  #252  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:40 PM
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I think it was extremely unrealistic to expect him not to request release and it's equally unrealistic to expect him to sign with us again. Kids commit to coaches not schools at the D1 level (unless it's an IVY or something like that where it's a life decision). Root for him to re-sign but don't hold your breath. I think we'll go the grad transfer route and I think it will be a good one...then try to hit it big with a 2018 pg.
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  #253  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:44 PM
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I would do the same thing. If I were hired to start a new job and my boss went to another company, I would not necessarily start at that company regardless. Not saying that I would follow my would-be boss to his new company, but I would take my time and do my due diligence with the company that offered me the job. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

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  #254  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
I would do the same thing. If I were hired to start a new job and my boss went to another company, I would not necessarily start at that company regardless. Not saying that I would follow my would-be boss to his new company, but I would take my time and do my due diligence with the company that offered me the job. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.
Totally agree. I don't blame him one bit. It sucks for us, but it's not our future he needs to think about.

Also agree with the folks saying he isn't actually still considering us. They always say that to make the break up easier. I can't remember a case of a kid getting his release only to commit to that school again later.

I wish him luck. I really do.
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Totally agree. I don't blame him one bit. It sucks for us, but it's not our future he needs to think about.

Also agree with the folks saying he isn't actually still considering us. They always say that to make the break up easier. I can't remember a case of a kid getting his release only to commit to that school again later.

I wish him luck. I really do.
The IU kid that recently decommitted just reaffirmed to IU..Not sure if the rhetoric was exactly the same but it really doesn't matter. Grant is going to have to recruit this kid hard and sell his style..
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  #256  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
It's easier to resign with the Flyers should he be intrigued, impressed, and sold by AG than anywhere else at least at this moment. I'm thinking he wants the total sell job by AG or he's "in like flint" with Archie..
Maybe, but how much time do both Dayton and MW have to play this game? MW might figure out 2 weeks from now Dayton is his best opportunity at this point in time but Grant might have signed a PG transfer (because he can't afford to wait). Or if AG decides to wait it out a little he might miss out on his transfer while MW decides to move on anyway. I would think that MW having AG one on one while he's still under LOI would be good enough to find out everything he's going to find out about the program under AG at this point in time.

This really is a bad situation for the Flyers. This is the big cost of AM's pattern of big class/small class/big class/small class. It certainly helps AM keep experienced player at all times, but it hurts the program when he leaves and he's on a big freshman/junior small sophomore/senior year.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
He, and his advisors, think he will get more big time recruitment after that great senior year. Doubt he is, or has, been looking at IU. Someone he sees as bigger and better will now swoop in. I just hope this does not affect the others.

And to McKinley: Dayton is the same great school and program, nothing has changed. The opportunity to start from Day 1 is yours for the easy pickin'.
Really? John Crosby who you've strongly supported throughout his ups and downs has a say in that doesn't he?
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Maybe, but how much time do both Dayton and MW have to play this game? MW might figure out 2 weeks from now Dayton is his best opportunity at this point in time but Grant might have signed a PG transfer (because he can't afford to wait). Or if AG decides to wait it out a little he might miss out on his transfer while MW decides to move on anyway. I would think that MW having AG one on one while he's still under LOI would be good enough to find out everything he's going to find out about the program under AG at this point in time.

This really is a bad situation for the Flyers. This is the big cost of AM's pattern of big class/small class/big class/small class. It certainly helps AM keep experienced player at all times, but it hurts the program when he leaves and he's on a big freshman/junior small sophomore/senior year.
There won't be a game played, imho. Maybe with 1-2 years left before you have to sign the dotted line then, yes, but not at this juncture. AG will have a couple hours to leave an impression on him but AG would be a fool to not be straight with the young man..I'm sure AG will tell him he has this amount of time or maybe that he's also recruiting other players due to the circumstances..Either way both AG and MW will have to "want" to be together the next 4 years..For all we know, AG could leave Wright's house after the visit and say I don't want him because his heart isn't in it or he doesn't like his attitude..
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  #259  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Maybe, but how much time do both Dayton and MW have to play this game? MW might figure out 2 weeks from now Dayton is his best opportunity at this point in time but Grant might have signed a PG transfer (because he can't afford to wait). Or if AG decides to wait it out a little he might miss out on his transfer while MW decides to move on anyway. I would think that MW having AG one on one while he's still under LOI would be good enough to find out everything he's going to find out about the program under AG at this point in time.

This really is a bad situation for the Flyers. This is the big cost of AM's pattern of big class/small class/big class/small class. It certainly helps AM keep experienced player at all times, but it hurts the program when he leaves and he's on a big freshman/junior small sophomore/senior year.
At this point I do not think AG should wait. I think he should keep recruiting MW, but if another player comes along, then AG shouldn't feel obligated to wait on MW. That is the risk both of them are going to have to take. But I would much rather UD sign a good replacement, then holding out hope they get MW back and he commit somewhere else.
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  #260  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
At this point I do not think AG should wait. I think he should keep recruiting MW, but if another player comes along, then AG shouldn't feel obligated to wait on MW. That is the risk both of them are going to have to take. But I would much rather UD sign a good replacement, then holding out hope they get MW back and he commit somewhere else.
Which, if MW is seriously still considering UD, he should find out all he needs to know before receiving his release. To me it's an indication that at most with UD, he can take it or leave, doesn't matter much to him. If he really believes that UD still might be the best choice he could make, I wouldn't think he'd ask for his release prior to finding this out and risk losing his chance based on the AG's need to have a 2nd pg next season at all costs. And I think if he made this clear to AG, AG would've put all aside for a little while to give the young man the info he needs to make that decision.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Maybe, but how much time do both Dayton and MW have to play this game? MW might figure out 2 weeks from now Dayton is his best opportunity at this point in time but Grant might have signed a PG transfer (because he can't afford to wait). Or if AG decides to wait it out a little he might miss out on his transfer while MW decides to move on anyway. I would think that MW having AG one on one while he's still under LOI would be good enough to find out everything he's going to find out about the program under AG at this point in time.

This really is a bad situation for the Flyers. This is the big cost of AM's pattern of big class/small class/big class/small class. It certainly helps AM keep experienced player at all times, but it hurts the program when he leaves and he's on a big freshman/junior small sophomore/senior year.
Ideally there has been phone contact. I thought someone posted that AG was supposed to meet with Wright within the next few days... but i may be confused. If that is the case, AG should have a solid feel for it the visit was real or just a courtesy.

But AG needs to move forward as if he is not coming. While it would be ideal to get a plug and play grad transfer, there will only be so many available.
  #262  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:16 PM
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The kid is rolling the dice. I am sure he immediately got calls from other schools including P5s. However, how many of those have been to 4 straight NCAAs and have a real opening for a freshman point guard? May end up at a bigger name, but I would guess he will spend more time talking to the assistant coaches on the bench instead of leading the offense. Just depends on his priorities.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:23 PM
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I don't know if he would have started as a freshman, but he would have had major minutes all 4 years. Next up.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:24 PM
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There's so many moving parts to this. Let's look at what we've heard about AG and recruiting. From the optimistic and in general, AG should be bringing in a higher rated set of recruits in than AM did. If so, I would be very leery if I were MW. While getting MW to play for him would help smooth out AG's initial seasons here, would he really not be looking for a higher recruit/ceiling PG next year? I think this applies to all 5 of our newby's that AM recruited here. I'm pretty sure that the chances that any two coaches don't have a major difference in the type of players that they want to bring into the program are very, very low.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:31 PM
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Lets not be naive and think that there haven't been other schools "in contact" with him. Perhaps not directly, as that would be a violation, but thru a friend of a friend, he has an idea of what his options. Perhaps AG can convince him to stick with the Flyers, but my gut tells me that he's already gone, probably has been for a time as well, just made it official w/ the dead period ending.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:34 PM
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
There's so many moving parts to this. Let's look at what we've heard about AG and recruiting. From the optimistic and in general, AG should be bringing in a higher rated set of recruits in than AM did. If so, I would be very leery if I were MW. While getting MW to play for him would help smooth out AG's initial seasons here, would he really not be looking for a higher recruit/ceiling PG next year? I think this applies to all 5 of our newby's that AM recruited here. I'm pretty sure that the chances that any two coaches don't have a major difference in the type of players that they want to bring into the program are very, very low.
I could see any of the recruits being leery of the change in styles. It is a legitimate concern especially because AG isn't coming directly from another program as head coach.

But every coach should be trying to recruit over every player if possible (with some consideration to positional strength). If he is worried about that he should signed at a low level MAC school.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:36 PM
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MW wants out of commitment but still considering UD = "I still want to be friends" line. He is gone, IMHO. Hope I am wrong.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the chances that any two coaches don't have a major difference in the type of players that they want to bring into the program are very, very low.
This may become an issue for players currently on the roster as well.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
This may become an issue for players currently on the roster as well.
It could be but chances are less so, or that they would act on those concerns. It just makes less sense to sit out a season to play one or two more under a different coach at a different program. Other than maybe XW and KA, I really don't see any of our returning players as being that hot of a commodity to think they will have it better elsewhere. In a sense, most of our returnees stock value has gone down as they've exposed themselves on a college court.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Lets not be naive and think that there haven't been other schools "in contact" with him. Perhaps not directly, as that would be a violation, but thru a friend of a friend, he has an idea of what his options. Perhaps AG can convince him to stick with the Flyers, but my gut tells me that he's already gone, probably has been for a time as well, just made it official w/ the dead period ending.
Is it permissable to speak with coaches during the dark periods? I would think that a quick call to the AAU coach or HS coach "just checking in to see if a player was ok with the changes or considering asking for a release (not offering or anything because that isn't allowed)" would find its way back to the player.
  #272  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Very tough for AG right now to cover all the bases with no assistants. He has to hire his help, see all the recruits, take care of talking to the press and UD Staff and get settled in a new environment, and oh yes, start coaching. He may have to pick his priorities as to who he sees first and last, and when. Who knows, Wright may have already had his feelings hurt.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
It could be but chances are less so, or that they would act on those concerns. It just makes less sense to sit out a season to play one or two more under a different coach at a different program. Other than maybe XW and KA, I really don't see any of our returning players as being that hot of a commodity to think they will have it better elsewhere. In a sense, most of our returnees stock value has gone down as they've exposed themselves on a college court.
I was thinking more along the lines of someone who's playing time gets cut based upon a style change wanting to go somewhere to get more time based upon fit... probably transferring down to lower level conference/school.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Really? John Crosby who you've strongly supported throughout his ups and downs has a say in that doesn't he?
Crosby is, and will be, a nice player, but he is nowhere on the level of this kid. Wright is a stud.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Which, if MW is seriously still considering UD, he should find out all he needs to know before receiving his release. To me it's an indication that at most with UD, he can take it or leave, doesn't matter much to him. If he really believes that UD still might be the best choice he could make, I wouldn't think he'd ask for his release prior to finding this out and risk losing his chance based on the AG's need to have a 2nd pg next season at all costs. And I think if he made this clear to AG, AG would've put all aside for a little while to give the young man the info he needs to make that decision.
The problem with the bold above is he was not able to talk to any schools since Archie has left. Maybe he likes everything AG has said so far, but he wants to meet with a few other schools to make sure he is making the right choice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exploring all options if you are him.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of someone who's playing time gets cut based upon a style change wanting to go somewhere to get more time based upon fit... probably transferring down to lower level conference/school.
So you're saying after this upcoming season. Again, it's least likely with only one year of eligibility left and we will have 5 players in that situation and only 1 with 2 years left(Trey). Again, I think that's why that wasn't a worry or at least one that they can/will act on. But if you're referring to the incoming recruits who choose to stay, I agree on that.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
The kid is rolling the dice. I am sure he immediately got calls from other schools including P5s. However, how many of those have been to 4 straight NCAAs and have a real opening for a freshman point guard?
And all 4 NCAAT appearances were with the old coach that just left...and the new coach is not from Archie's staff.

UD is a completely different program now vs. when Archie was here.

You are trying to say that nothing has changed, when, in fact, everything has changed.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
The problem with the bold above is he was not able to talk to any schools since Archie has left. Maybe he likes everything AG has said so far, but he wants to meet with a few other schools to make sure he is making the right choice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exploring all options if you are him.
My point though is he's risking his chances of signing at UD in the future by doing this. If let's say AM were still here and he had the same opportunity to reevaluate his situation with the risk of losing out on UD, would he take it? I'm thinking no, he wouldn't. So this at least tells me he's not as enthusiastic to play here now that AM is gone.

It certainly means that he's not as high on playing for the Flyers and AG as he was the Flyers and AM. I think he's gone. I believe everything else is wishful thinking.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Crosby is, and will be, a nice player, but he is nowhere on the level of this kid. Wright is a stud.
Is he stud enough to start over Crosby on day 1 though? I would guess not, very rare to find a Freshman like that.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And all 4 NCAAT appearances were with the old coach that just left...and the new coach is not from Archie's staff.

UD is a completely different program now vs. when Archie was here.

You are trying to say that nothing has changed, when, in fact, everything has changed.
I would not say a completely different program. Maybe a different team than they were but not program. To me the difference between a team and a program is the team is the product/style you play on the floor from year to year and the program is the intangibles that are still in place like facilities, resources, rabid fan base, tradition, good academic school, great collegiate atmosphere both athletically and socially, etc. I would agree that in today's recruiting game the team means more than the program but hopefully the program still means something to some of them (looks like it was that way for J. Davis).

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Old 04-07-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
So you're saying after this upcoming season. Again, it's least likely with only one year of eligibility left and we will have 5 players in that situation and only 1 with 2 years left(Trey). Again, I think that's why that wasn't a worry or at least one that they can/will act on. But if you're referring to the incoming recruits who choose to stay, I agree on that.
I can see any of those scenarios. There are plenty of kids who transfer after their Soph and Jr years. Often it occurs because their minutes decrease. Not suggesting it will happen; not suggesting that it would be a problem if it does.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:07 PM
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When I saw how many posts had been posted since I last logged in today, I knew either (a) Wright confirmed he was staying or (b) Wright asked for his release. Bummer, though not unexpected, it's (b) rather than (a).
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
The problem with the bold above is he was not able to talk to any schools since Archie has left. Maybe he likes everything AG has said so far, but he wants to meet with a few other schools to make sure he is making the right choice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exploring all options if you are him.
I would think he would want to talk to Ostrom... and possibly Archie. He appears to trust Ostrom and even if there isn't really a spot at IU, Ostrom can give MW insight on AG, UD and other assorted schools and their acronyms.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:10 PM
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Mckinley has the right to explore his options, but Anthony Grant has the right to explore his options too. He knows he only has one point guard currently on the roster for next year, and needs to make sure he gets at least a 2nd.

And now for my favorite reminder since I haven't posted it in a few days:

DON'T TWEET RECRUITS!!!!
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  #285  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And all 4 NCAAT appearances were with the old coach that just left...and the new coach is not from Archie's staff.

UD is a completely different program now vs. when Archie was here.

You are trying to say that nothing has changed, when, in fact, everything has changed.
This is spot on.

To me, a supporter of Flyers basketball for many, many years, I look over the whole picture and think that AM was the guy to take us to the next level after years getting to a point that someone could. I also look at AG as being the opportunity, thanks to OP, BG and AM of continuing the upswing. I look/wish at it as a rising program.

To a recruit, they might look upon the last 22 seasons as a program that can have a lot of average and some above average seasons but hit on the right coach in the same way you hit on an above average season and now that he's gone, the program falls back to it's normal.

Let's be honest, through out our last 4 years of success, when talked about nationally, we weren't talked about as a long term rising program, we were talked about as basketball program with a great history and great fans who have been very successful lately due to a great new, young coach. I'm sure the recruits don't look at it much differently.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
My point though is he's risking his chances of signing at UD in the future by doing this. If let's say AM were still here and he had the same opportunity to reevaluate his situation with the risk of losing out on UD, would he take it? I'm thinking no, he wouldn't. So this at least tells me he's not as enthusiastic to play here now that AM is gone.

It certainly means that he's not as high on playing for the Flyers and AG as he was the Flyers and AM. I think he's gone. I believe everything else is wishful thinking.
I get what you are saying, the problem is, he committed to Archie and UD, not AG and UD. That situation has changed, that is what has forced the exploring of options. If all things were the same, he probably wouldn't be looking. But the situation has changed. Kids now commit to the coach, not the school.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:31 PM
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Archie never really finished his statements concerning UD bball. What he was really saying is "UD is a great place to be until I get the job I really want". I disagree that everything was worth it when there were six recruits left hanging that will severely impact the short term and possibly long term future of UD bball.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
At this point I do not think AG should wait. I think he should keep recruiting MW, but if another player comes along, then AG shouldn't feel obligated to wait on MW. That is the risk both of them are going to have to take. But I would much rather UD sign a good replacement, then holding out hope they get MW back and he commit somewhere else.
Totally agree, its foolish waiting on a kid who's given no indication he wants to be at "Dayton University". In fact I hope that AG was already working on a Plan B before today assuming there was a good chance this would happen. I look forward to seeing AG work, next man up.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And now for my favorite reminder since I haven't posted it in a few days:

DON'T TWEET RECRUITS!!!!
Looking at Jordan Davis's Twitter page...looks like some folks didn't get your memo...
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankStreetFlyer View Post
Here is his announcement. UD is still being strongly considered.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife_025/s...313792/photo/1
Strongly considered. Yeah right...

Let's get a baller to run this show who wants to be here.
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  #291  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I get what you are saying, the problem is, he committed to Archie and UD, not AG and UD. That situation has changed, that is what has forced the exploring of options. If all things were the same, he probably wouldn't be looking. But the situation has changed. Kids now commit to the coach, not the school.
Has a kid ever de-committed Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana or Kentucky when a new coach was announced? The issue for P5 programs is not losing recruits due to a coaching change, it's retaining them for more than a year.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
Archie never really finished his statements concerning UD bball. What he was really saying is "UD is a great place to be until I get the job I really want". I disagree that everything was worth it when there were six recruits left hanging that will severely impact the short term and possibly long term future of UD bball.
Yeah, that Elite Eight run sucked... totally not worth it.

With very very very (many more verys) few exceptions, any coach that was in Archie's place would have done what he did. Hopefully, we hit a homerun with a coach who as an alum, will feel different.

This is stressful; deal with it. It can be frustrating; deal with it. I can just imagine all those LaSalle alums sitting around thinking "Glad, we're not in Dayton's shoes"
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Looking at Jordan Davis's Twitter page...looks like some folks didn't get your memo...
I'm allowing a one time exemption of the "Don't Tweet the Recruits" rule since Jordan announced he is staying with UD. You are allowed one tweet that simply congratulates him and say Go Flyers. This exemption applies to any of the recruits who announces they are choosing to keep their commitment.
  #294  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DGO67 View Post
Has a kid ever de-committed Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana or Kentucky when a new coach was announced?
Of course it's happened. It just did at Indiana after Crean's firing. Two recruits decommited, although one has since changed his mind and decided to stay.
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  #295  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DGO67 View Post
Has a kid ever de-committed Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana or Kentucky when a new coach was announced? The issue for P5 programs is not losing recruits due to a coaching change, it's retaining them for more than a year.
As The Fly just mentioned IU lost 2 when Crean was fired, Kentucky lost quite a few recruits when Cal was hired. Some of that was players not wanting to play with Cal and some of that was Cal replacing them with better players. As far as Kansas and UNC are concerned, it's been a long time since their last coaching change, I do not feel like going and looking it up, but I am sure it did.

Edit: But Duke, UNC, Kansas, Indiana are not your typical P5's. Other P5's have lost a ton of recruits during coaching changes. Just this cycle, NC State, Illinois, Oklahoma St, and Cal have all lost recruits with their coaching changes, and that is just off the top of my head. Changes happen when coaches change.

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  #296  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
In a sense, most of our returnees stock value has gone down as they've exposed themselves on a college court.
Only Flyer I can recall exposing himself on a college court was Dyshawn Pierre while grabbing a rebound against Boise State in the First Four.

Tip your waitstaff.
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  #297  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
Only Flyer I can recall exposing himself on a college court was Dyshawn Pierre while grabbing a rebound against Boise State in the First Four.

Tip your waitstaff.
That's wrong, Kyle came down from a leap at the same rebound and brushed against his shorts causing the incident. He didn't expose himself, Kyle exposed him.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:30 PM
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My gut instinct is that he's gone, he's been gone and was so the moment he found out AM left UD. I think because of the UD fan base sitting on the ledge waiting, he suspects the worse case scenario is the he re-commits to UD if something better doesn't happen (but his HS coach and handlers know probably something will just based on interest). His first choice will be AM/IU, 2nd would be Minnesota or any other big-time program and if all else fails and falls through, UD will be happy to re-sign him, and go back to UD and be a hero. I hope AG does the solid thing and sells himself and "Dayton University" back to MW. I also hope AG has someone who really wants to play at UD - and hopefully that recruit realizes the jackpot he's hit (because he will have hit one) and he'll instantly become a fan favorite for it. And I hope this new recruit signs soon; because MW lost me for good with "Dayton University".
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  #299  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
That's wrong, Kyle came down from a leap at the same rebound and brushed against his shorts causing the incident. He didn't expose himself, Kyle exposed him.
Quite true about Kyle as I've replayed it dozens of times (mostly at my kids' request). But it didn't work as well so, obviously, I couldn't use it in the final version that went to print.
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  #300  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
My point though is he's risking his chances of signing at UD in the future by doing this. If let's say AM were still here and he had the same opportunity to reevaluate his situation with the risk of losing out on UD, would he take it? I'm thinking no, he wouldn't. So this at least tells me he's not as enthusiastic to play here now that AM is gone.

It certainly means that he's not as high on playing for the Flyers and AG as he was the Flyers and AM. I think he's gone. I believe everything else is wishful thinking.
While I would still welcome him with open arms, I have to believe he's a recruit who chose a coach rather than a program. I mean, you do a tweet where you announce that you're reopening your recruiting, and you can't even get the correct name of the school to which you originally committed? Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but come on, man! Dayton University?!

No, I think he's gone. And if Archie doesn't have room for him at the University of Indiana, maybe Matta can find room for him at the State University of Ohio?
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