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  #101  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
LMAO.As opposed to any coach hiring bad assistants and being successful? There ain't a successful coach out there, anywhere, that has that success on his own.
If he hires bad assistants he's a bad coach, for all intents and purposes. I mean the proof is in the pudding.
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  #102  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:57 PM
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Can somebody in the know give us the style of D and O AG will run or at least has run in the past. I always felt that AM's style of both were the right direction both as fun to watch and getting us to the top, it was just a matter of getting a higher and higher quality of player/athletes to improve.

What if anything resembles Don Donoher? Anything similar to AM? Or what coach in UD's recent past does his styles on D and O resemble. Is he flexible enough to incorporate a zone defense if the situation calls for it? Does he like to press? What about ball movement on offense?

I personally would've preferred to keep the AM style going. I have had reservations about AG for a few reasons. But that's going to be dropped from the opinions I express from here on out. He's our coach and he's had great successes and also what looks to be some bad failures. This is a new situation for both he and UD so it might just be the best fit for both.

Welcome home AG, I hope you've found your perfect coaching job and we've found our perfect coach.
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  #103  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
And this is the guy who took the Mavs to the NBA Finals @ 10 years ago, and was the starting PG on the first great Spurs championship team in the late '90s. The guy knows his hoops. 'Bama is just a no-win proposition for a basketball HC as long as the football team is in the running for a national title every year. It's an "allocation of resources" issue down there.
T-Bone - couldn't agree more. Alabama is a years removed from Wimp Sanderson. They are and likely always will be a football school first and if they succeed at BB - great, its a bonus. Very happy with this hire.
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  #104  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
This summer when Norris Cole is back in town Grant will have him stop by and raise Crosby's game. Watch!!!
We can only hope, but Cole will have his work cut out for him...

Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
He can't transfer without sitting out another year. He's far from ready to play in virtually anywhere at the professional level yet.
Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Exactly. The only option he really has is to just decide to turn pro and go play in Europe/Greece. With all of his family now in the US and financially secure thanks to Giannis I think that is less likely than if they were back in Greece.
Ummm... yea... so if AG CAN'T keep him, what would that tell you!?!?!?


Originally Posted by OCFlyer85 View Post
Jeezus, Mckinley Wright WILL NOT make or break this program.

100% behind AG.
JEEZUS, I never said a dang thing about Wright making or breaking this program, i don't know why you think that... it has to do with the ABILITY of AG to recruit and keep guys. We need another PG next year, and not play Crosby 40 min a game
Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
AGs ability to maintain a high level recruit at a position we desperately need back up in for next year??? yea that's pretty freaking important... Going 6-12 in conference could start a downward spiral. It couuld start a fire and burn your little forest down. And at this time that's the first metric you can use to actually judge if this is a good choice.
Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
At the way this board has blown him up, his head may not fit through the UD arena doors...
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  #105  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:10 PM
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Does this mean we get a home-and-home with the Thunder?
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  #106  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
Does this mean we get a home-and-home with the Thunder?
Several home and homes. We're joining the NBA's Western Conference.
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  #107  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
Does this mean we get a home-and-home with the Thunder?
Correct, we can no longer avoid scheduling them.
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  #108  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:22 PM
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Grant was my first choice when Archie was hired. Never heard of Archie before he was hired. It worked out. I would hope Grant is able to retain some of the current assistants. Time will tell. I like this hire if the assistants weren't ready for HC yet.
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  #109  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:22 PM
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I'm on board. Would love to keep Ostrom. Would love to keep the recruits.

If not...we will be OK. May have to survive for a year or two on graduate transfers and under the radar guys, but we will be OK.

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  #110  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:34 PM
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Six years ago, when Dan Curran and Tim Wabler chose a little known assistant coach by the name of Archie Miller we had no idea the heights to which he would lead the Dayton Flyers. Now, six years later the task was given to Eric Spina and Neil Sullivan to find the best qualified candidate and choose the best one. I have no doubt that they have done just that!

Welcome Anthony Grant! The one thing that we as Flyer fans can get excited about is the last line of this quote, "Anyone you talk to in college basketball would say that our program is a successful one, but the potential is here for so much more." Archie set the bar high but their is no reason it can not be set higher! AG didn't say that, I did!

No matter who was chosen there were going to be those that disagree! While 100% is never going to be attained I'll settle for 99%. Now we just have to hope the correct assistant coaches are carefully selected!

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  #111  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:37 PM
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I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
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  #112  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
Do you have a sister named Debbie?
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  #113  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:43 PM
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@ud2 - do you have a reason to think that Kostas is leaving? Or that he would have stayed if another coach was hired?

Not sure if your post is just gut negative feelings, but Kostas is a key lynchpin of this transition, and I haven't heard anything official on him.
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  #114  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:47 PM
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VCU fans seem to like what Grant did at VCU as a recruiter. They almost universally think it is a good hire.
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  #115  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:47 PM
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I doubt Kostas wants to sit another year
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  #116  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
Who peed in your cornflakes this morning dude?
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  #117  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
I doubt Kostas wants to sit another year
Not only that but he'd lose a year of eligibility. You have 5 years to complete your 4 years of eligibility.
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  #118  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Not only that but he'd lose a year of eligibility. You have 5 years to complete your 4 years of eligibility.
Not to mention (and I've said this a few times before), AG's NBA connections may vault him to become the best recruiter UD has ever had. I imagine that GF2 will stay at UD BECAUSE of Grant. I also think that AG was probably the best hire in terms of convincing the current recruits to stay. Time will tell, but kids these days seem to get excited about "the next level". AG knows what it takes!!!!
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  #119  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Can somebody in the know give us the style of D and O AG will run or at least has run in the past. I always felt that AM's style of both were the right direction both as fun to watch and getting us to the top, it was just a matter of getting a higher and higher quality of player/athletes to improve.

What if anything resembles Don Donoher? Anything similar to AM? Or what coach in UD's recent past does his styles on D and O resemble. Is he flexible enough to incorporate a zone defense if the situation calls for it? Does he like to press? What about ball movement on offense?

I personally would've preferred to keep the AM style going. I have had reservations about AG for a few reasons. But that's going to be dropped from the opinions I express from here on out. He's our coach and he's had great successes and also what looks to be some bad failures. This is a new situation for both he and UD so it might just be the best fit for both.

Welcome home AG, I hope you've found your perfect coaching job and we've found our perfect coach.
Look at the style he used at VCU. I thought he started the Havoc concept there.
Can anyone clarify?

I doubt you will see walk the ball up the court style of basketball.
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  #120  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Not to mention (and I've said this a few times before), AG's NBA connections may vault him to become the best recruiter UD has ever had.
Dunno if he will be the best Dayton has ever had (we can hope) but I guarantee you that the four coaches previous to Anthony Grant never turned in a top 5 recruiting class as a head coach. Grant did that.

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/5/2...s-5-nationally
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  #121  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:03 PM
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And if any of the recruits leave I don't think that is a reflection on AG's ability to recruit. Many recruits leave their school commitments when the coach who recruited them is fired/leaves for another job even if that school hires a good coach. Was Henton leaving when Archie was hired a reflection on Archie's recruiting ability??? After all Henton averaged over 15 ppg.'s for his career at PC and Archie couldn't keep him. It's just silly to start talking about what he is as a recruiter based on what this year's incoming recruits do.
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  #122  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
Some people would be negative if we hired Jesus Christ.

Oh, and you are wrong too. (Red pip)
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  #123  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Not to mention (and I've said this a few times before), AG's NBA connections may vault him to become the best recruiter UD has ever had. I imagine that GF2 will stay at UD BECAUSE of Grant. I also think that AG was probably the best hire in terms of convincing the current recruits to stay. Time will tell, but kids these days seem to get excited about "the next level". AG knows what it takes!!!!
These high school kids idolize Russell Westbrook and Durant. Well, we now have a coach who has actually coached them both. That's an impressive lead-in.
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  #124  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71 View Post
Some people would be negative if we hired Jesus Christ.

Oh, and you are wrong too. (Red pip)
I really hated that part about the red pip in his post. It's no fun to give someone a red pip when they tell you they know it's coming.
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  #125  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I really hated that part about the red pip in his post. It's no fun to give someone a red pip when they tell you they know it's coming.
I gave him the red pip in the post and outfront, not the chicken s- it way
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  #126  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Do you have a sister named Debbie?
Posted via Mobile Device
The one that does Dallas or just goes down?
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  #127  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:17 PM
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How bout going on the record as to where Kostas goes

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
You really think he's going to sit out two consecutive years??? He's not ready to play pro, anywhere. Where does your record have him going???
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  #128  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71 View Post
Some people would be negative if we hired Jesus Christ.

Oh, and you are wrong too. (Red pip)
Well, you have to admit that JC's strength isn't on the hardwood, but there's no denying he's a heckofa recruiter.
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  #129  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:21 PM
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First - it will be great to have a head coach who the point guards literally can look up to.

Second - This is a great hire in that it removes the stigma of UD being a stepping stone to P5 jobs - recruits will not see our coach mentioned with EVERY P5 opening. It brings us to that next level.

Those that are down on this hire - either had an agenda or just are clueless. Great Hire by UD. We have a coach that can talk to recruits about being here 100% for them for 4 years, show them a NCAA championship ring, talk about the NBA - and then tell them his personal experience of stepping out on court with 13,500 fans screaming and rocking UD arena. NONE - ZIP - NADA of the other names considered brought all those pieces.

Again - Great hire - and Great day for UD.

Go Flyers and welcome home AG

Rob W '88
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  #130  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:26 PM
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David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 9m9 minutes ago

Tom Ostrom on Anthony Grant: "The University of Dayton is getting a man of impeccable integrity and character."

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 8m8 minutes ago

Ostrom has known Grant for 20 years. They were on Billy Donovan's staff at Florida for six seasons.
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  #131  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:28 PM
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I keep thinking back to the time when Anthony brought his Alabama team to the arena. He received a loud ovation at the beginning of the game. Can't help but think he hasn't forgotten that. Once a Flyer, always a Flyer.
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  #132  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:31 PM
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UD coeds everywhere are celebrating this hire!

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  #133  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
LOL, nope. But maybe South Carolina!! Believe Martin and Grant were HS teammates. Would be a nice series.
We played SoCar back in the '70s a few times, when they had Dunleavy (Sr.) and English. Some pretty good squads back then. And now, as well.
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  #134  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
But maybe South Carolina!! Believe Martin and Grant were HS teammates. Would be a nice series.
Don't tease me like this! I have to travel to Davidson every other year right now to see the Flyers. Oh BTW, Go Cocks!!
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  #135  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:43 PM
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Thumbs down Not sure why all the hate some have on this hire

So it appears we should not hire a HC we beat. So we can turn that theory on its' head and say we look for a coach that beat us. That would make the UMASS coach a candidate ... OH wait ....

So we should hire a HC from a bigger conference. So let's hire that guy from Illinois ... OH wait ....

How about that guy from Indiana you know, that HC that did a lot with his vast amount of resources ... OH wait ....

How about that fellow from NKU you know that one that almost beat KY you know that has a good track record beating all the remaining lower seeded teams in a conference tourney ....

How about hiring an assistant that played at W_Y avior ....... F'in seriously?

AG may have some history with some pro's and some con's yet when Archie was hired he had (If you all remember a 3 ring binder to show Wabler) and that could have been a scrap book on his playing career or family vacation pictures. The thing is no one NOT EVEN WABLER knew for 90% certain that AM was our man. So the AD took a flyer (No pun meant.)

So at worst AG can get and achieve AM numbers even with some uncertainty in the equation ... based on some actual cred that what AM brought as a newbie HC. (Not down on AM, just saying there was no jumpin and hollerin that that was the best hire ever.) But now AG may be the worst hire ever.

If you can't get a grip on this potential hire than take some Kaopectate!

Give the man a chance he is after all a Flyer! You know a FlyerNation alumna.
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  #136  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
Coach Mack, you really oughta lay-off the Tanqueray & Tonic before 3:00 PM.

Seriously, though, I think the only truly better hire for this school, at this time, might have been to promote the most qualified Assistant from Archie's staff. Even then, all 3 of the Assistants would have been "unknowns" at the HC level. With AG, we're getting a HC who has:
- Proven he can win at UD's level;
- Proven he can recruit at Florida's level;
- Proven he can coach at the NBA level (admittedly, as an assistant); and, yes
- Been a Flyer for nearly 35 years.

I think Sullivan got the job done here.

Consider yourself "red-pipped".
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  #137  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Look at the style he used at VCU. I thought he started the Havoc concept there.
Can anyone clarify?

I doubt you will see walk the ball up the court style of basketball.
Grant did play a full court press @ VCU, Shaka coined the term "Havoc".
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
UD coeds everywhere are celebrating this hire!

I couldn't find a one that was from UD ... did Archie take them to IU instead of Daytona?
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  #139  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
With AG, we're getting a HC who has:
- Proven he can win at UD's level;
- Proven he can recruit at Florida's level;
- Proven he can coach at the NBA level (admittedly, as an assistant); and, yes
- Been a Flyer for nearly 35 years.

I think Sullivan got the job done here.

Consider yourself "red-pipped".
You forgot one!

AG is taller too.
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  #140  
Old 03-30-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
I couldn't find a one that was from UD ... did Archie take them to IU instead of Daytona?
I gave them each an Honorary Royal Degree just before I posted the video.
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  #141  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
And if any of the recruits leave I don't think that is a reflection on AG's ability to recruit. Many recruits leave their school commitments when the coach who recruited them is fired/leaves for another job even if that school hires a good coach. Was Henton leaving when Archie was hired a reflection on Archie's recruiting ability??? After all Henton averaged over 15 ppg.'s for his career at PC and Archie couldn't keep him. It's just silly to start talking about what he is as a recruiter based on what this year's incoming recruits do.
This is the best reasoning I've seen, however...
Archie had Kavanaughty and Benson to play down low, and they were decent. plus we had Fabthreez and Gavrilovic at 6'9" so Henton wasn't that important.

We have 1 PG that shoots 44% from the free throw line and was 5th on the team in assist to turnover ratio... We need MW or another PG for next year or it will be bad...
My point is it's not a good comparison between Henton with AM and Wright with AG

And AM NEVER recruited a big man that worked out...

Last edited by 31770; 03-30-2017 at 03:17 PM..
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  #142  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:04 PM
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  #143  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
This is the best reasoning I've seen, however...
Archie had Kavanaughty and Benson to play down low, and they were decent. plus we had Fabthreez and Gavrilovic at 6'9" so Henton wasn't that important.

We have 1 PG that shoots 44% from the three point line and was 5th on the team in assist to turnover ratio... We need MW or another PG for next year or it will be bad...
My point is it's not a good comparison between Henton with AM and Wright with AG

And AM NEVER recruited a big man that worked out...
Henton wasn't a matter of choice IIRC. He did not want to meet with Archie or anyone else at UD. He was out the door the minute Gregory left, looking for a bigger program.

Only Gibson was willing to listen.
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  #144  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
This is the best reasoning I've seen, however...
Archie had Kavanaughty and Benson to play down low, and they were decent. plus we had Fabthreez and Gavrilovic at 6'9" so Henton wasn't that important.

We have 1 PG that shoots 44% from the three point line and was 5th on the team in assist to turnover ratio... We need MW or another PG for next year or it will be bad...
My point is it's not a good comparison between Henton with AM and Wright with AG

And AM NEVER recruited a big man that worked out...
Henton at 6'6" was a 2 or a 3. Gibson was the 6'9" big man.
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  #145  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Henton wasn't a matter of choice IIRC. He did not want to meet with Archie or anyone else at UD. He was out the door the minute Gregory left, looking for a bigger program.

Only Gibson was willing to listen.
But my original point is that recruits leave all the time under these same type of circumstances so its just ridiculous to judge somebody's recruiting ability on whether Archie's recruits stay or not. If he can't keep MW and he ends up going to a power 5 conference school because his stock has risen so much, I find it hard to pin that on AG.
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  #146  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:19 PM
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I agree with that. In no way shape or form does the inability to retain current recruits reflect on whether AG can or can not recruit to UD. Not keeping them doesn't mean he can't, and keeping them doesn't guarantee future success. AG definitely has a reputation as a great recruiter.
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  #147  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:20 PM
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I just looked back at the posts from six years ago when we hired Archie. In one poll, 82% gave the hire a B or better. In another poll, 22% still wanted Gregory over Archie.
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  #148  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
So who was the slam dunk absolute certain hire? None of the assistants on staff have ever been a head coach. There is no indication Crean was even interested. Groce has a resume much like AG. Brannen - one year of success at NKY (I think he has potential). Whitford and other lower D1 head coaches - not a guarantee.

What you appear to be drawing your conclusions from is AG's time at Alabama. Under those guidelines why did Creighton hire McDermott and why did New Mexico hire Alford. Both look a lot like AG in terms of success.

And there are plenty like them who had success at places like OU, didn't work out when they got hired into a P5 conference and got fired, then succeeded again at the mid to just below high major level.

Last edited by UDDoug; 03-30-2017 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
And AM NEVER recruited a big man that worked out...
Seriously?
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  #150  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:34 PM
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Will be interested in hearing if he is going to press.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:36 PM
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Okay, let's look at this from the other perspective. Instead of how many of our 5 recruits plus Kostas want to stay and play for AG, how many of those 6 does AG want to be saddled with for up to 4 years before he gets his own (custom made sort of) recruits carrying the majority of the weight.

Can you take half of a team worth of recruits and do well with them even though they were researched and offered based on the needs, philosophies, style and strategies of the old coach and still be get the most out of them? I doubt it.

We know we need a 2nd PG next year. Do we know that AG wants a MW for four years as his PG? There's more to it than just what the recruits want.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:36 PM
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Love, love, love this hire. I think he is the perfect fit for the program at this time.

Welcome back Anthony!!!
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  #153  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:39 PM
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If AG institutes a 15- game home schedule, plays Wright State on MLK day, hires Ray Parker Jr. as an assistant, and cures AIDS, I believe he'll have this board's approval. Beating X at Cintas wouldn't hurt. The VCU fans approve more than we do, apparently.
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  #154  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Dunno if he will be the best Dayton has ever had (we can hope) but I guarantee you that the four coaches previous to Anthony Grant never turned in a top 5 recruiting class as a head coach. Grant did that.

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2011/5/2...s-5-nationally
and he got fired with a top five recruiting class?
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  #155  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Henton at 6'6" was a 2 or a 3. Gibson was the 6'9" big man.
OK.... point being???



Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
Seriously?
Yea seriously, name one?
Big Steve being academically ineligible for a year and then only playing one season??? If SM had not tragically passed, we could have been a final four team this year... but it DIDN'T WORK OUT did it???

Kostas Antetokounmpo hasn't even played a game (what? another academically ineligible big man???) and may never play a game for us...

Or are you referring to the super stealio brothers???

Or you must mean Alex Gavrilovic???

Pollard is the tallest guy AM recruited that worked out good for the program.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
Will be interested in hearing if he is going to press.
I would love to see at least SOME press... I can't imagine that he won't
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
I just looked back at the posts from six years ago when we hired Archie. In one poll, 82% gave the hire a B or better. In another poll, 22% still wanted Gregory over Archie.
And if a poll had been taken on Jan 29, 2014, Archie probably would have received a C- or D.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
OK.... point being???





Yea seriously, name one?
Big Steve being academically ineligible for a year and then only playing one season??? If SM had not tragically passed, we could have been a final four team this year... but it DIDN'T WORK OUT did it???

Kostas Antetokounmpo hasn't even played a game (what? another academically ineligible big man???) and may never play a game for us...

Or are you referring to the super stealio brothers???

Or you must mean Alex Gavrilovic???

Pollard is the tallest guy AM recruited that worked out good for the program.
I think Flying Arrow's point is that when you make a statement like that, for it to be relevant would mean that it's Archie's fault that the big men didn't work out. You can argue that Scott and Robinson were never high character guys and AM should've never brought them to Dayton. You can argue that Gavrilovik was not a skilled big man. But, and I know you know this, you can't argue that there was anything AM could've done to have Big Steve be here for 4 seasons and on this earth beyond.

In actuality, AM had 3 seasons without a legitimate big player and all of them were due to unforeseen circumstances. One being the expulsion of Kavs, another the expusions of Scott and Robinson. And the other being the tragic death of Big Steve.

You're correct that they didn't work out, but in no way do I think that means for a second that AM will always have trouble getting needed big men on his teams.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
and he got fired with a top five recruiting class?
One guy actually transferred to Georgia Tech. So it's probably his fault. He got both Grant and Gregory fired.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
UD coeds everywhere are celebrating this hire!

Those girls go to Florida Rollo. Stop lying to people!
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
I agree with this

I kept hearing Alabama is a football school and you can't win there. His predecessor Mark Gottfried made the tourney five years in a row and made the Elite 8.

Avery Johnson has the #2 Point Guard in the country coming and another top 50 coming in this year. They lost a McDonalds AA this year Terrance Ferguson who played pro in Australia rather than go to Bama.

Bama is a football school and they have modest expectations in basketball and Anthony couldn't meet them.

This program has waited a long to get the momentum that Archie built up for it. My fear is we are stuck with Chris Mooney without the sweet 16 for the next 10 years.

I'd love to be wrong but if you look his coaching record objectively the guy is Dennis Felton with a degree from Dayton.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
One guy actually transferred to Georgia Tech. So it's probably his fault. He got both Grant and Gregory fired.
you recruit really well on paper, don't live up to modest expectations of a football school like Alabama and that doesn't concern you?
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I think Flying Arrow's point is that when you make a statement like that, for it to be relevant would mean that it's Archie's fault that the big men didn't work out. You can argue that Scott and Robinson were never high character guys and AM should've never brought them to Dayton. You can argue that Gavrilovik was not a skilled big man. But, and I know you know this, you can't argue that there was anything AM could've done to have Big Steve be here for 4 seasons and on this earth beyond.

In actuality, AM had 3 seasons without a legitimate big player and all of them were due to unforeseen circumstances. One being the expulsion of Kavs, another the expusions of Scott and Robinson. And the other being the tragic death of Big Steve.

You're correct that they didn't work out, but in no way do I think that means for a second that AM will always have trouble getting needed big men on his teams.
I know it sounds incredibly harsh, but yea, AM was the head coach and WAS responsible for his recruiting regardless of unforeseen circumstances.
(Being ineligible academically should also kinda be a warning flag you should look at).

Anyway, thank you- We do know for sure he did a hell of a job with the teams we had without any big men, and i'm sure he will have no issue getting great big men at IU.

...but he MIGHT be cursed... and something bad might happen to ALL of them over the next few years and he gets canned....
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
OK.... point being???





Yea seriously, name one?
Big Steve being academically ineligible for a year and then only playing one season??? If SM had not tragically passed, we could have been a final four team this year... but it DIDN'T WORK OUT did it???

Kostas Antetokounmpo hasn't even played a game (what? another academically ineligible big man???) and may never play a game for us...

Or are you referring to the super stealio brothers???

Or you must mean Alex Gavrilovic???

Pollard is the tallest guy AM recruited that worked out good for the program.
Point being, I was correcting your mess up.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Those girls go to Florida Rollo. Stop lying to people!
Grant is from Florida. So those girls are probably just really happy for him.
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  #166  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'll hope for the best but there's no objective way to look at this as good
Do you care to elaborate?
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I think Flying Arrow's point is that when you make a statement like that, for it to be relevant would mean that it's Archie's fault that the big men didn't work out. You can argue that Scott and Robinson were never high character guys and AM should've never brought them to Dayton. You can argue that Gavrilovik was not a skilled big man. But, and I know you know this, you can't argue that there was anything AM could've done to have Big Steve be here for 4 seasons and on this earth beyond.

In actuality, AM had 3 seasons without a legitimate big player and all of them were due to unforeseen circumstances. One being the expulsion of Kavs, another the expusions of Scott and Robinson. And the other being the tragic death of Big Steve.

You're correct that they didn't work out, but in no way do I think that means for a second that AM will always have trouble getting needed big men on his teams.
Alex was a late signee (no different than the PG from Louisiana), iirc, due to circumstances BEYOND Archie's control as in "needing BIGS". Robinson had a heck of a freshman year here and if he did not have other alternatives such as getting high and robbing people then who knows. Scott was not good his first 2 years but started to become a pretty good big man until the issues hit. And no more needs to be said about Big Steve.

We can question Archie on some of character evaluations but the guy did nothing to dispel his ability to coach and recruit BIGS from a basketball standpoint.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I agree with this

I kept hearing Alabama is a football school and you can't win there. His predecessor Mark Gottfried made the tourney five years in a row and made the Elite 8.

Avery Johnson has the #2 Point Guard in the country coming and another top 50 coming in this year. They lost a McDonalds AA this year Terrance Ferguson who played pro in Australia rather than go to Bama.

Bama is a football school and they have modest expectations in basketball and Anthony couldn't meet them.

This program has waited a long to get the momentum that Archie built up for it. My fear is we are stuck with Chris Mooney without the sweet 16 for the next 10 years.

I'd love to be wrong but if you look his coaching record objectively the guy is Dennis Felton with a degree from Dayton.
Go look at Gottfried's record after Nick Saban was hired in 2007. It went down hill fast. So you can keep touting what Gottfried did before AG got there, but there was definitely a change in athletic department resources after Saban was hired, and it was AWAY from basketball.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
you recruit really well on paper, don't live up to modest expectations of a football school like ______ and that doesn't concern you?
Fill in the blank tOSU. So you are saying Matta is a concern for how many years now?
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I agree with this

I kept hearing Alabama is a football school and you can't win there. His predecessor Mark Gottfried made the tourney five years in a row and made the Elite 8.

Avery Johnson has the #2 Point Guard in the country coming and another top 50 coming in this year. They lost a McDonalds AA this year Terrance Ferguson who played pro in Australia rather than go to Bama.

Bama is a football school and they have modest expectations in basketball and Anthony couldn't meet them.

This program has waited a long to get the momentum that Archie built up for it. My fear is we are stuck with Chris Mooney without the sweet 16 for the next 10 years.

I'd love to be wrong but if you look his coaching record objectively the guy is Dennis Felton with a degree from Dayton.
No offense OSU Flyer but I judge this hire from a much different perspective. I think with respect to Alabama, there was much more going on there, just my opinion. So until I see Anthony Grant go sub-.500 for 3 straight years, he gets the same chance I've given every other coach since 1967. Not every year is an up year. AM struggled his first 2 years due to BG leaving abruptly and the hiccup in recruiting that it impacted resonated.

Things I like about AG go further than the win/loss, such as:

-He played here, has a vested interest in the culture. Understands the expectations and the history.
-Has NBA experience with top players
-Has had success at another school BESIDES Alabama (highly successful at VCU)
-I don't think he's looking to jump for the next bigger opportunity; he could have easily just stayed in the NBA
-Coaching pedigree, enough said.
-Can speak to success in the NCAA, has a ring.
-Personal character; I've yet to hear ONE controversial thing about him - he brings integrity, he has integrity.
-His on-court demeanor looks calm and collected

Why don't you judge him in 3 years?
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  #171  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:27 PM
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As mentioned earlier in the thread Anthony has coached two of the top 20 players on the planet, maybe two of the top 10. He can watch a player in practice at the forward and point guard position especially and say "here is where you are weak in nba skills and this is how to fix it" Even Archie cant' do that

this should help with recruiting and it should help someone like Kostas realize he can reach his nba goals at UD.

I have to believe that anthony has added some tricks after leaving Alabama.

He is one of the safest hires. And who wanted to hear about how UD had traded coaches with INdiana? And who wanted to hear that 10 times every game which was televised?
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
you recruit really well on paper, don't live up to modest expectations of a football school like Alabama and that doesn't concern you?
I am just saying that I think the fact that he's pulled in really, really highly regarded recruits is a plus. That is where Dayton has historically struggled. We've seen guys blow up and then it's all over. Won't even consider us. Of course, how you actually evaluate talent is the most important thing without a doubt. Five diamonds in the rough is better than five busts. But we've been pretty good at finding diamonds in the rough. And Grant's found his share as well. Consider Larry Sanders, whose composite recruit ranking was #384. The 384th ranked player in the class of 2007! Dude went on to be the 15th overall pick in the NBA draft three years later! So yeah, he can find guys. Even bigs. And he can develop them.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:30 PM
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I remember Anthony Grant as a freshman recruited basketball player. He was a big burly 6'5" football player looking guy who was very athletic but seemed to be out of sync with the team on the floor. He was exactly like our Trey Landers at 6'4", today. Neither of them got much playing time as freshmen.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:32 PM
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UD2 and OSU Flyer

You guys keep going on and on about how this is such a bad hire but have not given any names for who is the candidate that is so great that make you hate this hire? I would really like to see names. Every coach that has been talked about has flaws. There was not 1 big time coach out there. Don't get me wrong AG was not my first choice, but I am still happy, I think he fits the culture well. Let's see these perfect candidates that have no flaws at all.
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  #175  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:36 PM
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Anthony Grant's bio now up on the Dayton Flyers website...

http://daytonflyers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=647&path=mbball

All the assistants are still there as well. Looks like they are all staying!
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OCFlyer85 View Post
Jeezus, Mckinley Wright WILL NOT make or break this program.

100% behind AG.
Agreed. Although, it would be good if Mac Wright still comes. More than likely UD will lose some recruits, hopefully with AG, more will stay than leave.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
UD2 and OSU Flyer

You guys keep going on and on about how this is such a bad hire but have not given any names for who is the candidate that is so great that make you hate this hire? I would really like to see names. Every coach that has been talked about has flaws. There was not 1 big time coach out there. Don't get me wrong AG was not my first choice, but I am still happy, I think he fits the culture well. Let's see these perfect candidates that have no flaws at all.
All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
Anthony Grant's bio now up on the Dayton Flyers website...

http://daytonflyers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=647&path=mbball

All the assistants are still there as well. Looks like they are all staying!
Okay, that's quite a leap. They are officially assistants until they decide on alternative positions. They aren't going to remove names until it's official.

However, I noticed none of our new recruits are listed on the roster so if you're correct in what it means for assistant coaches, that's bad news as far as recruits are concerned.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, that's quite a leap. They are officially assistants until they decide on alternative positions. They aren't going to remove names until it's official.

However, I noticed none of our new recruits are listed on the roster so if you're correct in what it means for assistant coaches, that's bad news as far as recruits are concerned.
Even if they are signed, they cannot be added the to the official roster until they are enrolled.
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  #180  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele
Joe Brannen, formerly of the Iowa Barnstormers of the Indoor Football League, is an unconventional choice. But he was fired and totally available.

http://www.goifl.com/sports/fball/20...20160711m5dbus
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  #181  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele
Pretty amazing that Brannen would've been better because he won the Horizon League tournament by beating none of the top teams. Not to mention the fact that he was the understudy of the guy you're saying is a bad hire. The bottom line is that NOBODY really knows how any of these guys would've done. You're just throwing darts and hoping to hit the right Coach. I, personally, think they made the right decision from the candidates they were choosing from. With that being said, Grant could turn this program in to the next Gonzaga, he could go 60-60 over the next 4 years and get hired, he could decide after one year that he wants to go be an assistant in the NBA. Nobody really knows. Just have to let it play out and hope for the best.
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  #182  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele
You just failed Debate Team 101. No facts to back 'em up. Just bullet point items.

But you may lose track of your facts if you get interrupted so I wait for your fact based retort.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
All would have been better

Kenny Johnson
Joe Pasternack
Nick McDevitt
Joe Brannen
Travis Steele
So unproven assistants, a guy at UNC-Asheville that doesn't even have a .600 winning percentage and made the CBI this year, and a guy at NKU that got extremely lucky facing the 5, 9, and 10 seeds to win the HL league tournament. I am not saying that none of these guys wouldn't have been good hires at Dayton. But none of them are these great slam dunk hires that you can definitely say are better than AG.

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  #184  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:03 PM
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David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 16m16 minutes ago

Asked Neil Sullivan if they were hoping to hire a coach who would stick around. He said both he and Grant look at UD as a "destination job."

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 13m13 minutes ago

Sullivan said he and Grant have both reached out to recruits today.
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  #185  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
a guy at NKU that got extremely lucky facing the 5, 9, and 10 seeds to win the HL league tournament
No, No, No!!! That's John Brannen. Joe Brannen coached the Iowa Barnstormers. There's a huge difference. Bringing in a fired arena football league coach takes serious balls. Could be brilliant.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 16m16 minutes ago

Asked Neil Sullivan if they were hoping to hire a coach who would stick around. He said both he and Grant look at UD as a "destination job."

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 13m13 minutes ago

Sullivan said he and Grant have both reached out to recruits today.
Heck yeah, I don't know how big of part it played, but if I'm an AD at a university and have many sports programs to worry about, all things being equal, I want the guy who's not going to have me interrupting my plans after 3 to 6 years to go looking again. That would be my selfish reason for hiring AG
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:07 PM
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To be fair, John Brannen did a bit more than getting lucky and facing lower seeds in the HL tourney. Coming in their first year of eligibility for post season, and how young the roster is, he did a pretty **** good job.

That said, it's one year. After one year everyone would have anointed Jim O'Brien for the national collegiate hall of fame and had him the head coach at Kentucky or Kansas in a couple years.
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  #188  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
you recruit really well on paper, don't live up to modest expectations of a football school like Alabama and that doesn't concern you?
Not one bit. Stick with OSU
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:10 PM
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Those of you talking about how Avery Johnson has done so much more than Grant did or will do, seem to conveniently overlook that Avery has a NBA background. Do you think that helped him land the #5 recruiting class? Do you think it might help AG land some recruits when he can talk about Durant and Russell?
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  #190  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, that's quite a leap. They are officially assistants until they decide on alternative positions. They aren't going to remove names until it's official.
Very true. Just joking... and a little wishful thinking!
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  #191  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:17 PM
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Gottfried was at Alabama for 11 years. In years 4 through 8 he made the NCAA, making the Elite 8 once, losing in the first round twice and the second round twice.

In his last 3 years the Tide made one NIT, and two years had no post season.

When Grant's team made the NCAA in his third season, that was the first time in 6 years the Tide had made the NCAA. His team was riddled with injuries in the nonconference part of the fourth season, or may have made the NCAA again. Fifth year was very weak.

Alabama has had success in the past, mostly under Sanderson. But since Saban, for the most part they have not. AJ may succeed if they turn the resources back on, but hasn't to date.

Last edited by UDDoug; 03-30-2017 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I remember Anthony Grant as a freshman recruited basketball player. He was a big burly 6'5" football player looking guy who was very athletic but seemed to be out of sync with the team on the floor. He was exactly like our Trey Landers at 6'4", today. Neither of them got much playing time as freshmen.
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Anthony couldn't shoot
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  #193  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:20 PM
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John Bedell‏Verified account @JBedellWHIO 44m44 minutes ago

The newest head coach of @DaytonMBB is on the other end of the phone with @MHartsockWHIO. Anthony Grant calls it a "dream job." 5 @whiotv

John Bedell‏Verified account @JBedellWHIO 42m42 minutes ago
Replying to @JBedellWHIO @DaytonMBB and

Anthony Grant just told @MHartsockWHIO on the phone every time the @DaytonMBB job opened he "hoped" he'd "have a chance to lead it."

Lance McAlister‏Verified account @LanceMcAlister 41m41 minutes ago

Let's add new @DaytonMBB coach Anthony Grant to the guest list tonight, 7:05 @700wlw
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  #194  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:25 PM
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Smile Welcome Home Anthony Grant

We look forward to your leadership of the program. Go Flyers!
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  #195  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Those of you talking about how Avery Johnson has done so much more than Grant did or will do, seem to conveniently overlook that Avery has a NBA background. Do you think that helped him land the #5 recruiting class? Do you think it might help AG land some recruits when he can talk about Durant and Russell?
Avery played in the NBA. That's like totally different. Honestly, I think people are overblowing this NBA stuff. Anthony's background is a selling point. But kids aren't going to worship the ground Anthony Grant walks on because he was an NBA assistant coach.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Avery played in the NBA. That's like totally different. Honestly, I think people are overblowing this NBA stuff. Anthony's background is a selling point. But kids aren't going to worship the ground Anthony Grant walks on because he was an NBA assistant coach.
And most recently he also coached in the NBA. Other than he was so short, I doubt any of today's recruits remember anything about him. It's still the connections to that gig that will get recruits excited. Avery is very good at leveraging that, even tho he has been removed from it for awhile. AG's pedigree is he is a very good recruiter. That was before he went to OKC 2 years ago. So now he also has the NBA connections all of today's recruits know the guys he's coached. I expect him to do very well in bringing recruits to UD.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
And most recently he also coached in the NBA. Other than he was so short, I doubt any of today's recruits remember anything about him.
He was so short that no one remembers him? Oh man. I wonder if will even know who Archie Miller is tomorrow!
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:55 PM
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This is a potentially disastrous hire in terms of failing to maintain our momentum.

I would give AG a very short leash.

There is no reason that he should not have UD back in the NCAAT by year 3 or year 4.

If UD is not back in the NCAAT by year 4, then I think UD should pull the plug and replace him and move on.

I am not in favor of giving him 6 or 7 or 8 years. We did that with BG, and things never got better.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:01 PM
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And I think Neil should maybe be fired, or reassigned elsewhere, if this does not work out.

We just had our best coach in 30 years, and we went with an external guy, with a very sketchy track record, to replace him.

I am just stunned.

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Old 03-30-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
This is a potentially disastrous hire in terms of failing to maintain our momentum.

I would give AG a very short leash.

There is no reason that he should not have UD back in the NCAAT by year 3 or year 4.

If UD is not back in the NCAAT by year 4, then I think UD should pull the plug and replace him and move on.

I am not in favor of giving him 6 or 7 or 8 years. We did that with BG, and things never got better.
Next year we're probably not going to the tournament even if Archie Miller sticks around. It's a rebuilding year after 4 straight NCAA tourney appearances. But it's 100% reasonable to expect NCAA appearances within the next 4 years. In fact, the expectation should be to be back in two seasons.
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Mad Props to DallasFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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