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  #301  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:00 PM
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AG - first blush projection

Better than BG. Not as good as AM.
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  #302  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
I thought we had great fans until reading this. Seriously.

Grant has been coach for what, 30-some hours and some of you are already calling for his head? Welcome our guy back home and wish him well.

In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief!
In the words of Charlie Chaplin:
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  #303  
Old 03-31-2017, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Can we get this right, they said TWO years of coaching in the NBA is like five college seasons.

I'll show you the math:
1 NBA season = 82 games
82 x 2 = 164 games for two NBA seasons

1 college season = 30(+) games
30(+) x 5 = 150(+) games for five college seasons

2 NBA seasons of 164 games approximately = 5 college seasons of 150(+) games.
For a good team like OKC, the NBA playoffs are a season all to themselves.
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  #304  
Old 03-31-2017, 09:44 PM
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There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?
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  #305  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?
1. I didn't have a guy. Just wanted the best guy we could get. Maybe that's Grant, maybe it isn't. But I keep hearing Dayton is a "destination" job, so maybe expectations are not in line with reality?
2. Concerns about Grant really boil down to having great recruiting classes but not performing to expectations. It's not unreasonable to discuss this.
3. Why would we pick at Indiana? We aren't Indiana fans.
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  #306  
Old 03-31-2017, 11:36 PM
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Hope Anthony makes it back to Dayton in time for the press conference!

Thunder Beat Reporter just tweeted:

Thunder assistant Anthony Grant wasn't on the bench tonight, but watched the game in a back room. Getting intro'd at Dayton Saturday.
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  #307  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:38 AM
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My 2 cents: Seems like Neil, et al. went with stability over the prospect of hitting on the next big time P5 coach (Dayton is a destination job mantra). My question is whether Neil thinks the constant Arch rumors undermined recruiting and scheduling over the past 3 years? Would love for Jablo to ask him. IMO if I'm a 3/4-star type that was recruited by Arch, I'd always have in the back of my mind whether he was going to stick. Frankly, that would have been a major deterrent to go to UD. In the same vein, if I'm a UC or a mid-level P5, am I reluctant to sign to play UD b/c who knows what happens if/when Arch leaves?
As far as the search, I didn't see any name being discussed that overwhelmed me. Most were lottery tickets, at best. Was hoping that Kuwik would get the nod to start an X/Butler/VCU type continuity. Obviously, that presented a risk with the lack of HC experience. Instead, seems like UD will be heading down the path of St. Joe’s or Davidson, while utilizing the advantages of UD (fan base, arena, coach w/ NBA ties) to be at the top of the league more consistently. Looking forward to next season!
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  #308  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:05 AM
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What is killing me is the question of Ostrum. I wish someone in the media would get an answer from him or Grant on whether there's a chance he stays. They are old friends. Is that enough? Does he want to be Associate Head Coach at UD? Will he have that position offered to him at IU? Or does Ostrum want to try to be a head coach somewhere? Inquiring minds want to know. Keeping him would take this from a great hire to an amazing hire.

Regarding the search, I read that they were only interested in people who saw UD as a destination job. And i'm sorry, but there are very few people outside of those who have gone to dayton or played for dayton who would ever view that as the last stop. Any decent younger coach will want to come here, make a mark and then test the waters in a bigger pond. That's just the way college hoops is now.

It's great that AG has the resume and is a the point in his life where he may be happy to make this his last stop on the coaching train if he's successful.

But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.

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  #309  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:18 AM
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Archie is a Vee Sanford floater and Jordan Sibert SAM missile from still being the Dayton coach right now and fans wondering if he has the exact same NCAA yips as Gregory and Purnell. The margins in this game are razor thin. I dont think even our own recent success calls for drinking anyone's bath water. The way fans talk, we just lost Mike Krzyzewski to Army and replaced him with Bruiser Flint. Archie got us back to where we should have been to begin with. And many thanks for it. But lets pump the brakes a bit and not forget ourselves either.
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  #310  
Old 04-01-2017, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.
Wasn't that the real challenge of this search though? Finding someone who really wants to be here, not with an eye towards resume-building?

We have gone that route four straight times with mixed results... Let's see what someone who really does want to be here can do. I'm very optimistic.

Six years ago we would've fallen all over ourselves for this hire. I think there are too many questions around what happened at Alabama to mark that as a Grant failure. He was a runaway success at VCU... which is exactly the sort of program we are, only better. Looking forward to it.
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  #311  
Old 04-01-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Hope Anthony makes it back to Dayton in time for the press conference!

Thunder Beat Reporter just tweeted:

Thunder assistant Anthony Grant wasn't on the bench tonight, but watched the game in a back room. Getting intro'd at Dayton Saturday.
Tom Archdeacon's article today said the family was back in town mostly so his son could attend his prom last night. That's pretty cool.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...cQU3Yp5iciRUM/
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  #312  
Old 04-01-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
What is killing me is the question of Ostrum. I wish someone in the media would get an answer from him or Grant on whether there's a chance he stays. They are old friends. Is that enough? Does he want to be Associate Head Coach at UD? Will he have that position offered to him at IU? Or does Ostrum want to try to be a head coach somewhere? Inquiring minds want to know. Keeping him would take this from a great hire to an amazing hire.

Regarding the search, I read that they were only interested in people who saw UD as a destination job. And i'm sorry, but there are very few people outside of those who have gone to dayton or played for dayton who would ever view that as the last stop. Any decent younger coach will want to come here, make a mark and then test the waters in a bigger pond. That's just the way college hoops is now.

It's great that AG has the resume and is a the point in his life where he may be happy to make this his last stop on the coaching train if he's successful.

But there aren't many viable coaches out there who could honestly say that they wouldn't look elsewhere 5 years down the road if they achieved the level of success archie has. Not unless the landscape of hoops changed somehow and/or we somehow got into a better conference.
I think Ostrum is the key. If he stays and can convince our current recruits to stay, we have a fighting chance next year and can more easily build the program without much interruption. Who knows, maybe Ostrum is promoted to Associate Head Coach and is told he will no.1 on the list when AG moves on - which could be a long way off, though.

BTW - thanks for validating my destination job comment. My comment was not a slam on AG, but a realistic observation.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:47 AM
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I haven't seen a link that UD is streaming live the AG press conference. That kind of surprises me. I would have thought they would stream it since it's not open to the public. I know they will have a clip afterwords online. Wonder if Chris R is going?
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  #314  
Old 04-01-2017, 10:51 AM
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The press conference begins at 1:00 p.m. and will be streamed live on WDTN.com
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Wasn't that the real challenge of this search though? Finding someone who really wants to be here, not with an eye towards resume-building?

We have gone that route four straight times with mixed results... Let's see what someone who really does want to be here can do. I'm very optimistic.

Six years ago we would've fallen all over ourselves for this hire. I think there are too many questions around what happened at Alabama to mark that as a Grant failure. He was a runaway success at VCU... which is exactly the sort of program we are, only better. Looking forward to it.
I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:07 AM
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What kind of timeline should we expect with assistants being named and anything official going on with the recruits?
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.
That's wrong. Grant himself could end up leaving after a few successful years, nothing is certain. But I do think there is a profile of coach that would view this as a "destination". Likely older and with either a P5 failure or a long low to mid major track record.

You know, like Ray Harper.
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  #318  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:11 AM
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If successful, not only do we have to worry about Grant leaving for another college job, but there may be an NBA team after him.
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  #319  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
There seems to be some naysayers that wouldn't be happy no matter who we hired unless it was their guy. They need to be ignored because they don't seem to want to listen to logic. Pick at Grant all you want, it makes more sense to pick at Indiana's choice for coach. Although he has had reasonable success, the last two seasons showed that his teams wilted down the stretch and lost to 10 seeds in the tournament. How could they have hired that guy?
Bump material. Ignore all you want..
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  #320  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
I'm just saying that if finding someone who sees this as a destination job is your main criteria, then there weren't many candidates to consider. There was one. Grant was the only guy out there with a reason to view Dayton as a place he'd never want to leave, and had the resume to be considered a strong head coach. So it wasn't technically a search that happened. It was a single phone call.
I don't really care what you call it. A "search" or a "single phone call" (or a single text for that matter). All I care about is that we got a quality coach with fantastic background and ties to the university, not here to impress and build a resume only to bolt. A coach that sees this job as potentially a final destination/legacy. I'll take that kind of coach and commitment any day; especially if his name is Anthony Grant.
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  #321  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Archie is a Vee Sanford floater and Jordan Sibert SAM missile from still being the Dayton coach right now and fans wondering if he has the exact same NCAA yips as Gregory and Purnell. The margins in this game are razor thin. I dont think even our own recent success calls for drinking anyone's bath water. The way fans talk, we just lost Mike Krzyzewski to Army and replaced him with Bruiser Flint. Archie got us back to where we should have been to begin with. And many thanks for it. But lets pump the brakes a bit and not forget ourselves either.
I counter that with Archie was a lost player and an injured player from being a potential elite-eight team this year. He still gone
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  #322  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I haven't seen a link that UD is streaming live the AG press conference. That kind of surprises me. I would have thought they would stream it since it's not open to the public. I know they will have a clip afterwords online. Wonder if Chris R is going?
whio.com was the report on local news
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:30 AM
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Dayton Basketball‏Verified account @DaytonMBB 4m4 minutes ago

Watch for FREE the Facebook Live stream of coach Anthony Grant's press conference. Saturday, 1 p.m. ET.

View: https://www.facebook.com/GoDaytonHoops/
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  #324  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:12 PM
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Maybe my memory is fuzzy but a few years back I seem to recall a large chunk of UDPride posters wanting Anthony Grant to be the coach. I'm very happy with the hire.
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  #325  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Maybe my memory is fuzzy but a few years back I seem to recall a large chunk of UDPride posters wanting Anthony Grant to be the coach. I'm very happy with the hire.
Color me cautiously optimistic. My concern is his being away from HS pipelines...of course that can be quickly remedied with the right assistants that do have those pipelines Didn't AG say Dayton was his dream job, if so sounds like a destination job to me. At 50 and successful here he could be the next Mark Few.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Color me cautiously optimistic. My concern is his being away from HS pipelines...of course that can be quickly remedied with the right assistants that do have those pipelines Didn't AG say Dayton was his dream job, if so sounds like a destination job to me. At 50 and successful here he could be the next Mark Few.
I think I said this farther up in this thread, but being away 2 years is not as big of a deal that everyone seems to be making it. Many of the kids that are going to be seniors next year would have been freshman when he was recruiting last, so he would have some data on these kids. Also, most HS and AAU coaches are still at the same schools and teams they were at 2 years ago. As you said, a good assistant would help, but it's not like he was gone 10+ years from college recruiting.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I think I said this farther up in this thread, but being away 2 years is not as big of a deal that everyone seems to be making it. Many of the kids that are going to be seniors next year would have been freshman when he was recruiting last, so he would have some data on these kids. Also, most HS and AAU coaches are still at the same schools and teams they were at 2 years ago. As you said, a good assistant would help, but it's not like he was gone 10+ years from college recruiting.
From a recruits perspective it could be a big deal, either for or against. Obviously having connections in the NBA is a positive when talking to recruits. But also some recruits have to have in the back of their minds....how long will he stay before another NBA gig opens up.

Personally believe he wants to retire here, thats the optimist side of me, but also didn't think AM would take the high pressure Indiana job.

I am much more optimistic AG will be more successful here than AM will be at IU, but we will have to wait and see how each develops into their new position.

Of course we all know that surrounding oneself with the right people (assistants, players etc) can make the difference in ones success at a particular program. AG at VCU/Alabama; AM only has one past performance to gauge on.

A big part of the question will be the admins, fans and boosters. AG has it better here than AM will have at IU in my opinion.

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Old 04-01-2017, 05:18 PM
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Archie's time spent schmoozing whales,boosters and public appearances/obligations are going to quadruple. Neil and Dr. Spina left Archie alone for the most part in this respect.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Archie's time spent schmoozing whales,boosters and public appearances/obligations are going to quadruple. Neil and Dr. Spina left Archie alone for the most part in this respect.
And I can guarantee he is going to hate every minute of it!
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
From a recruits perspective it could be a big deal, either for or against. Obviously having connections in the NBA is a positive when talking to recruits. But also some recruits have to have in the back of their minds....how long will he stay before another NBA gig opens up.

Personally believe he wants to retire here, thats the optimist side of me, but also didn't think AM would take the high pressure Indiana job.

I am much more optimistic AG will be more successful here than AM will be at IU, but we will have to wait and see how each develops into their new position.

Of course we all know that surrounding oneself with the right people (assistants, players etc) can make the difference in ones success at a particular program. AG at VCU/Alabama; AM only has one past performance to gauge on.

A big part of the question will be the admins, fans and boosters. AG has it better here than AM will have at IU in my opinion.
I think this board over reads what recruits are thinking.
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  #331  
Old 04-01-2017, 09:12 PM
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I'm not a very well connected fan, but after 10 hrs in a sweat lodge smoking peyote, I just had a clear vision that Bill Comar is headed to Bloomington with Archie. I guess we will just have to wait and see how accurate my visions are. Fudd has big medicine.

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Old 04-01-2017, 09:21 PM
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:47 PM
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I heard a rumor that AG and Chris Mack were the final 2 candidates at Xavier to replace Sean Miller.

Interesting rumor.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:30 PM
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College basketball 2017 coaching moves: Ranking the hirings of the biggest jobs filled

http://www.cbssports.com/college-bas...t-jobs-filled/

Interesting blurb on the new coaches by CBS Sports writer Matt Norlander. Like the recognition we're the best gig in the A-10.... yea and Archie's on the list as you might expect:

Quality hires
Dayton: Anthony Grant
Career record: 193-110 in nine seasons overall (117-85 in six seasons at Alabama, 76-25 in three seasons at VCU)
Evaluation: The Flyers wanted someone who had been a head coach previously, so they opt to hire an alum. Grant was good at VCU, then a little above average at Alabama. His roster next year will be bad, so give him three years to steady this thing out. I think he's an acceptable hire for UD. I think Dayton should round out into a top-three A-10 program (in performance, not standing; Dayton is the best job in the league) by 2019-2020. Given the candidates out there, Grant had as strong a resume as any. Was he the best option?
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:38 PM
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The article also states "that the roster will be bad next season and to give AG three years to straighten things out".
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LI Flyer View Post
The article also states "that the roster will be bad next season and to give AG three years to straighten things out".
As I said in another thread, I don't blame AG for this, I blame Archie and the administration for not having any kind of succession plan in place, and mostly the administration. Don't know if they believed they could just keep throwing money at AM and he'd continue to stay or what. I also know they are fairly hands off, but it's to the detriment of the school and basketball program if you don't have that in place. You can't afford to have 2 - 3 bad years every 6 years, or like Sisyphus, doomed to always be rolling the rock up the hill for eternity.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:02 PM
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TXFlyer, I respectfully diagree with blaming the administration. We caught lightning in a bottle with Archie's hiring. You can't have a contingency plan for your next head coach if your not convinced you have that guy on staff. That seemed to be the case with us as we went outside. The HS recruits jumping ship are a reality that all programs feel.
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  #338  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
As I said in another thread, I don't blame AG for this, I blame Archie and the administration for not having any kind of succession plan in place, and mostly the administration. Don't know if they believed they could just keep throwing money at AM and he'd continue to stay or what. I also know they are fairly hands off, but it's to the detriment of the school and basketball program if you don't have that in place. You can't afford to have 2 - 3 bad years every 6 years, or like Sisyphus, doomed to always be rolling the rock up the hill for eternity.
The other solution is the hire the right coach if you go outside the staff, not sure we did that
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The other solution is the hire the right coach if you go outside the staff, not sure we did that
Who would you have hired and why would he be better than AG
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:36 PM
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Dayton now has at least 2 scholarships open, probably 3, maybe 4. Svoboda told me he's still considering Dayton but hasn't heard from Dayton
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:56 AM
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I am willing to give AG 4 or 5 years before any sort of evaluation is made. We are starting over now, so it is only fair to give him a fair amount of time to get his system in place. That is of course assuming that the wheels do not completely fall off, which I highly doubt will happen.

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Old 04-18-2017, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@davidpjablonski
Dayton now has at least 2 scholarships open, probably 3, maybe 4. Svoboda told me he's still considering Dayton but hasn't heard from Dayton
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That doesn't sound good. I am excited about Svoboda next year, sounds like he was mature enough to jump right in.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:54 AM
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I want to address those who say "the sky is falling". I am not overwhelmed with this hire, but I think it was solid. I do think the admin. was right to reject the hire of Donnie Jones, if indeed that took place. I am also not thrilled if Grant hasn't yet contacted Svoboda, though it's quite possible that Grant looked at his film and decided that Svoboda does not meet the style he wishes to play... or that that evaluation is still ongoing.

But those who say that Alabama's results prove that AG is a mediocre coach, or that they can't be explained away are wrong. And I'll give you a couple of reasons why...

1. One of his biggest of big time recruits, 2012 recruit Devonta Pollard, ended up off the team and eventually transferred due to his assumed involvement with a kidnapping that actually ended up being on his mom. He was on the team for a while, but that had to be a time of incredible turmoil. For those of you who say that's on AG for not vetting the recruit, he was a McDonald's All American. You don't turn down a McDonald's All American unless he was caught on tape murdering someone. More on this story:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/sto...-start-houston

2. Two other recruits, 5-star guard Trevor Lacey and 4-star top JUCO center Moussa Gueye eventually transferred due to disagreeing with Grant's "playing style". What really happened is that Lacey went to join the man who initially recruited him to Alabama, Mark Gottfried, when Gottfried was hired at NC State. The stated reason was that Lacey was unhappy with being trained to play the point, which was a position of need... but he was being selfish. He was a very good player and continued to be so at NC State.

And Gueye was a player who only averaged 5 points and 5 boards as a 7-foot graduate transfer to Valparaiso. For those of you who say this just shows that there was a lack of quality evaluation from Grant and his staff... I think most of us would kill for a 4-star 7 footer here at Dayton. To say we haven't had good luck with big men would be a gross understatement. Many schools were after Gueye after his JUCO time.

3. Grant is responsible for bringing in one of the best players in Alabama basketball history, Trevor Releford. They struggled to replace Releford's leadership in Grant's final season.

Yes, Grant's teams had offensive issues. Some complain that they couldn't seem to run an effective offense. They also had a poor run in conference play when they were set up to make the tournament in Grant's final year.

The optimist in me says that Grant will at the very least, be able to out-recruit Archie... and if you have good players in place, you at least earn more leeway on coaching ability.

So at least think about that the next time you want to bad mouth Grant's time at Alabama... he was working shorthanded for his last 3 years or so, much to factors out of his control.
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  #344  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:22 PM
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AG is our guy & I've tried to convince myself he's gonna keep the train rolling here

It's not unreasonable to be concerned that over two weeks after he got hired that there still aren't any assistants on board. Jack Owen a first year coach at Miami was hired after him and put a staff together & has two commits already. Pat Ewing who's last college experience was when Ronald Reagan was President already has an assistant on board

Grad transfers, transfers, JUCOs & high school seniors are scheduling visits & going off the board. Things are moving fast right now

Even with the recruiting class I don't think this had to turn into a full scale rebuild
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  #345  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:50 PM
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I'm truly astonished at how nervous this board gets at times. AG has hired one assistant (admittedly not a lead recruiter) and, I'm guessing, has a second on board that just hasn't been made official as yet (Kuwik). The DDN says Kuwik has been working hard since Miller left, in part to impress AG, no doubt, but also to maintain a level of continuity with returning players and the various recruiting pipelines. At worst, our new coach is on a schedule (staff, recruits) not far off of Archie's when he was hired here.

What little upheaval we've seen was to be expected -- the loss of two (maybe three) Archie recruits and one transfer. He got two recruits to recommit, which is two more than I expected.

Barring more transfers, I think we'll be quite competitive next year. A frontcourt of Josh, Xerious and Kostas will match up well with anyone in the A10. And I've gotta believe AG will get us a talented PG (or two) to ease any concerns there. I'll go so far as to say a top four A10 finish is very doable, and that will have us in the tourney conversation.

Yes, I know we have a new coaching staff, a new system and lots of inexperience, but I'm just not that worried. I don't blame some folks for being jittery, but a little patience will go a long way toward calming nerves. This is a basketball PROGRAM, not a race. As AG said, he wants to dominate the league. I'm willing to take him at his word until there's a reason not to ...
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I'm truly astonished at how nervous this board gets at times. AG has hired one assistant (admittedly not a lead recruiter) and, ..
he's can't recruit since he's in an administrative position
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I'm truly astonished at how nervous this board gets at times. AG has hired one assistant (admittedly not a lead recruiter) and, I'm guessing, has a second on board that just hasn't been made official as yet (Kuwik). The DDN says Kuwik has been working hard since Miller left, in part to impress AG, no doubt, but also to maintain a level of continuity with returning players and the various recruiting pipelines. At worst, our new coach is on a schedule (staff, recruits) not far off of Archie's when he was hired here.

What little upheaval we've seen was to be expected -- the loss of two (maybe three) Archie recruits and one transfer. He got two recruits to recommit, which is two more than I expected.

Barring more transfers, I think we'll be quite competitive next year. A frontcourt of Josh, Xerious and Kostas will match up well with anyone in the A10. And I've gotta believe AG will get us a talented PG (or two) to ease any concerns there. I'll go so far as to say a top four A10 finish is very doable, and that will have us in the tourney conversation.

Yes, I know we have a new coaching staff, a new system and lots of inexperience, but I'm just not that worried. I don't blame some folks for being jittery, but a little patience will go a long way toward calming nerves. This is a basketball PROGRAM, not a race. As AG said, he wants to dominate the league. I'm willing to take him at his word until there's a reason not to ...
If I take everything you posted as fact, yes, we would be in the running for top four A10 finish.

Loss of coach, assistants, one returning player and 2 or 3 recruits and we shall be able to adjust. No problem. Well, one little problem you failed to mention, we also lost Scooch, Kyle, Kendall and Cooke.

If this team is top half of A10 conference it will be nothing short of a miracle. We lost all of our ball handlers. And when was the last time the Flyers went into a season with a starting PG that didn't have a year in the system? Oh yeah, Staten, that worked out great didn't it. And we aren't going to find anyone with half the talent as Staten at this point. The only time I can remember a successful UD team with a brand new starting point guard in the system was Johnny Davis 44 years ago.
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  #348  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
he's can't recruit since he's in an administrative position
He can't go off campus to recruit. He can make calls and host the recruits when they are on campus.
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  #349  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
He can't go off campus to recruit. He can make calls and host the recruits when they are on campus.
Exactly right, which is why I said he's not a lead recruiter.

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Well, one little problem you failed to mention, we also lost Scooch, Kyle, Kendall and Cooke.
I didn't mention them by name but acknowledged we'd be inexperienced.

As I said, you're free to worry. But I see that as wasted energy until AG has signed off on a full staff and full team. Every team with a new coach confronts a list of questions during the off season, whether from personnel turnover, implementing a new system, player development, scheduling, whatever. I just would rather dwell on the positive. Each to his own.

Last edited by The Fly; 04-18-2017 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:37 PM
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Need to get someone on campus
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:47 PM
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I am truly astonished at anyone who would concede that all 5 of our 4017 recruits will bolt for the door even before the door is opened.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:52 PM
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Just want to recap...

We have the following players confirmed.
Xeyrius
Mikesell
D Davis
Sam
Landers
Jordan Davis
Jordan Pierce

So we have 7 confirmed players and as far as this board knows have not gone after any grad transfers. Can someone please politely tell me what in the absolute hell is going on? I am completely and utterly lost. I have zero clue what any of you are talking about when you are "staying positive."

OSU Flyer just keeps posting how these grad transfers are narrowing down their choices or have committed entirely (thank you btw OSU Flyer). Poor guy just has to report on awful news all day long.

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  #353  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PFlyer View Post
Just want to recap...

We have the following players confirmed.
Xeyrius
Mikesell
D Davis
Sam
Landers
Jordan Davis
Jordan Pierce

So we have 7 confirmed players and as far as this board knows have not gone after any grad transfers. Can someone please politely tell me what in the absolute hell is going on? I am completely and utterly lost. I have zero clue what any of you are talking about when you are "staying positive."

OSU Flyer just keeps posting how these grad transfers are narrowing down their choices or have committed entirely (thank you btw OSU Flyer). Poor guy just has to report on awful news all day long.
Some have narrowed down their list. Many more are still seeking their release each day. There is not a shortage of good transfers and grad transfers available right now.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
I am truly astonished at anyone who would concede that all 5 of our 4017 recruits will bolt for the door even before the door is opened.
Some are simply not able to look big picture at the future. Others, like yourself, can look thousands of years into the future.
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  #355  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Some have narrowed down their list. Many more are still seeking their release each day. There is not a shortage of good transfers and grad transfers available right now.
the board is narrowing every day and these guys are setting up visits. The later Dayton jumps the harder it gets to build relationships and set up visits. Looking on Twitter the pool is thinning for the impact guys.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PFlyer View Post
Just want to recap...

We have the following players confirmed.
Xeyrius
Mikesell
D Davis
Sam
Landers
Jordan Davis
Jordan Pierce

So we have 7 confirmed players and as far as this board knows have not gone after any grad transfers. Can someone please politely tell me what in the absolute hell is going on? I am completely and utterly lost. I have zero clue what any of you are talking about when you are "staying positive."

OSU Flyer just keeps posting how these grad transfers are narrowing down their choices or have committed entirely (thank you btw OSU Flyer). Poor guy just has to report on awful news all day long.
And then there's the elephant in the room that is very concerning. Who in their right mind would predict that Josh Cunningham, who would have to give up a year of eligibility after sitting one year and being injured most of the next, would still not be sure about staying committed? I would've thought he'd be the first one to confirm his commitment. The fact he hasn't is really disturbing anyway you slice it.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:18 PM
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Crosby said he was staying and then changed his mind so maybe some of these commitments other than the two recruits could be more fluid than expected
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
And then there's the elephant in the room that is very concerning. Who in their right mind would predict that Josh Cunningham, who would have to give up a year of eligibility after sitting one year and being injured most of the next, would still not be sure about staying committed? I would've thought he'd be the first one to confirm his commitment. The fact he hasn't is really disturbing anyway you slice it.
Who says he hasn't committed to staying? The "list" on this site is devoid of any direct knowledge from inside the program.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
the board is narrowing every day and these guys are setting up visits. The later Dayton jumps the harder it gets to build relationships and set up visits. Looking on Twitter the pool is thinning for the impact guys.
There are still plenty of good players asking for their release every day. Maybe not the elite players, but we were not going to get them anyway. But there are 700 players that are going to transfer this offseason. Players like MiKyle McIntosh who would be great here, hasn't officially announced he is transferring, but will be soon. Plenty of guys that test the NBA waters and decide to stay in college will look to transfer. Nobody should be worried yet about securing transfers.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Who says he hasn't committed to staying? The "list" on this site is devoid of any direct knowledge from inside the program.
Looking at the confirmed retention on the "who's staying, who is leaving" thread nowhere does it list Cunningham. That's been carried over to this thread. I'm assuming as Flyers fans, these people creating the list haven't forgotten about #0. He hasn't publically confirmed, that's a red flag for realists, I guess not for those who would rather "dwell on the positive".
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  #361  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:30 PM
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That's my point -- it's a list pointing out only what we know as fans, not as insiders. If you expect the DDN or even UD to quash every rumor and tidbit and neurotic fear that erupts on UDPride, you'll be waiting a looooong time.
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  #362  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
And then there's the elephant in the room that is very concerning. Who in their right mind would predict that Josh Cunningham, who would have to give up a year of eligibility after sitting one year and being injured most of the next, would still not be sure about staying committed? I would've thought he'd be the first one to confirm his commitment. The fact he hasn't is really disturbing anyway you slice it.
I missed this. Can you post a link? Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
There are still plenty of good players asking for their release every day. Maybe not the elite players, but we were not going to get them anyway. But there are 700 players that are going to transfer this offseason. Players like MiKyle McIntosh who would be great here, hasn't officially announced he is transferring, but will be soon. Plenty of guys that test the NBA waters and decide to stay in college will look to transfer. Nobody should be worried yet about securing transfers.
MiKyle McIntosh sounds great! Maybe we can have our assistants start reaching out to him!! Come on, man. This has not been a fun early-offseason.
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  #364  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
There are still plenty of good players asking for their release every day. Maybe not the elite players, but we were not going to get them anyway. But there are 700 players that are going to transfer this offseason. Players like MiKyle McIntosh who would be great here, hasn't officially announced he is transferring, but will be soon. Plenty of guys that test the NBA waters and decide to stay in college will look to transfer. Nobody should be worried yet about securing transfers.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017

Verbal commits does about as well as anywhere I've found tracking transfers.

There are not many immediately eligible PGs who can come in and make an impact.

JUCO ranks too, we're behind there getting involved
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I missed this. Can you post a link? Thanks.
What kind of link are you looking for? I can't post a link of an inaction. If you're referring to where am I getting this from, it's in the confirmation postings under who's staying, who's leaving. Apparently, but going on that, all returnees have made their decision public(or official, not sure) as of now, except for Josh.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Some are simply not able to look big picture at the future. Others, like yourself, can look thousands of years into the future.
Yes, thousands. It's a gift.
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  #367  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
I am truly astonished at anyone who would concede that all 5 of our 4017 recruits will bolt for the door even before the door is opened.
Hopefully we're in the Big East by then...
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  #368  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:24 PM
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From the DDN: "In the meantime he said he has zeroed in on a few other guys - transfers (junior college or graduate) - who can 'play immediately.' He's especially interested in perimeter players..." I guess those who are saying he hasn't reached out to anybody are wrong.
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  #369  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
From the DDN: "In the meantime he said he has zeroed in on a few other guys - transfers (junior college or graduate) - who can 'play immediately.' He's especially interested in perimeter players..." I guess those who are saying he hasn't reached out to anybody are wrong.
AG has been on top of it since he was hired. There is a reason Crosby left when he was the only pg on the roster. You will hear news of transfers who can play immediately soon.
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  #370  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
As I said in another thread, I don't blame AG for this, I blame Archie and the administration for not having any kind of succession plan in place, and mostly the administration. Don't know if they believed they could just keep throwing money at AM and he'd continue to stay or what. I also know they are fairly hands off, but it's to the detriment of the school and basketball program if you don't have that in place. You can't afford to have 2 - 3 bad years every 6 years, or like Sisyphus, doomed to always be rolling the rock up the hill for eternity.
I agree 100% with Chris. If it wasn't for a couple of big shots Archie would not be the Indiana coach and the natives might even be getting restless on how far he could take the program

Archie did a great job here but archie was worried primarily about archie and what it took to get the OSU/Indiana job (or maybe others). He was smart in picking UD where he had a great fan base, great arena. He wasn't worried about class balance or anything else that a long term coach would have been worried about.

Anthony and kevin can prevent the expected bad seasons but it will take good judgement in the next several weeks
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  #371  
Old 04-18-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Hopefully we're in the Big East by then...
The Big East will be underwater by then...as a matter of fact, so will the Atlantic 10.

Maybe we should be in the Mountain West?!
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  #372  
Old 04-18-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
From the DDN: "In the meantime he said he has zeroed in on a few other guys - transfers (junior college or graduate) - who can 'play immediately.' He's especially interested in perimeter players..." I guess those who are saying he hasn't reached out to anybody are wrong.
Reached out to & got to visit campus & landed are two very different things
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  #373  
Old 04-18-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71 View Post
Who would you have hired and why would he be better than AG
I brought up former Arizona associate HC Joe Pasternack on here a couple times.

He got hired at UC-Santa Barbara on April 4th.

April 11th he gets his first assistant hired

April 15th he lands Marcus Jackson from Rice as a grad transfer PG. 12ppg 2.3apg

Today

Josh Gershon‏Verified account
@JoshGershon

#UCSB has landed a commitment from Nevada PG transfer Devearl Ramsey, he tells Scout. Former four-star prospect. Big pickup for Gauchos.

He brings a former top 150 PG
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  #374  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:34 PM
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@CBB_Central
UCSB is about to be 12-3 with their only losses to Pitt, USC, and Texas A&M. They didnít beat a D1 team until December 27 last year and won 6 games all year. Joe Pasternack is an absolute WIZARD.

@CBB_Central
Big West: UC Santa Barbara. I thought the Gauchos would be good. I didnít expect them to be THIS good in year one of the Joe Pasternack era. Leland King has been a revelation.

Check back in about an hour for another block of conference picks!

@JonRothstein
Former Arizona assistant Joe Pasternack is doing a nice job at UC Santa Barbara. Gauchos are 8-2 overall. Visit USC on Sunday night in Los Angeles.

@coreyevans_10
Biggest takeaway from the gym today...Joe Pasternack is going to have it rolling at Santa Barbara shortly. Sekou Toure & Amadou Sow are high majors headed to the Big West. Won't be fair.
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  #375  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:54 PM
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Dayton was #68 in the RPI this morning. UCSB was #69. Our SOS #3, theirs #212.

UCSB lost to 4-9 #233 Cal Poly on Thursday which is even worse than #220 UMass. Fire Pasternack.
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  #376  
Old 01-06-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Dayton was #68 in the RPI this morning. UCSB was #69. Our SOS #3, theirs #212.

UCSB lost to 4-9 #233 Cal Poly on Thursday which is even worse than #220 UMass. Fire Pasternack.
You showed him?
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  #377  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@CBB_Central
UCSB is about to be 12-3 with their only losses to Pitt, USC, and Texas A&M. They didnít beat a D1 team until December 27 last year and won 6 games all year. Joe Pasternack is an absolute WIZARD.

@CBB_Central
Big West: UC Santa Barbara. I thought the Gauchos would be good. I didnít expect them to be THIS good in year one of the Joe Pasternack era. Leland King has been a revelation.

Check back in about an hour for another block of conference picks!

@JonRothstein
Former Arizona assistant Joe Pasternack is doing a nice job at UC Santa Barbara. Gauchos are 8-2 overall. Visit USC on Sunday night in Los Angeles.

@coreyevans_10
Biggest takeaway from the gym today...Joe Pasternack is going to have it rolling at Santa Barbara shortly. Sekou Toure & Amadou Sow are high majors headed to the Big West. Won't be fair.
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People on this board are already freaking out over AG's past coaching record. Pasternack was 54-60 as a head coach at New Orleans. This board would have imploded.
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  #378  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:28 PM
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May 19, 2011
Diamond Leung
Ever take a job only to find that the job description changes after you get there? It's not a whole lot of fun, but that's what Joe Pasternack dealt with at New Orleans....

Last edited by Chris R; 01-06-2018 at 08:31 PM.. Reason: Do not post entire articles from other web sites.They are copyrighted. You know this.
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  #379  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:29 PM
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Came in the aftermath of Kratina & won 16 games with 1 scholarship player
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  #380  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:38 PM
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I'm missing something? Who is this Paternack guy and why do we care about him or Santa Barbara?
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  #381  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I'm missing something? Who is this Paternack guy and why do we care about him or Santa Barbara?
Because the search for a new coach on this message board is in full swing right now.

Last edited by SeasonTicketFan; 01-06-2018 at 08:48 PM..
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  #382  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I'm missing something? Who is this Paternack guy and why do we care about him or Santa Barbara?
It didn't have to be the way it is now
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  #383  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:38 PM
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Could have hired a coach fired by new orleans or western kentucky. What were they thinking passing them up lol.
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  #384  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I'm missing something? Who is this Paternack guy and why do we care about him or Santa Barbara?
We don't.
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  #385  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:58 PM
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Yes we do.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:53 PM
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Duquesne now 12-4 under Dambrot. 10-22 last year. Picked 14th in A-10 this year. 3 - 0 in conference so far.
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  #387  
Old 01-07-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Duquesne now 12-4 under Dambrot. 10-22 last year. Picked 14th in A-10 this year. 3 - 0 in conference so far.

#213 in the RPI with an SOS of 335.
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  #388  
Old 01-07-2018, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
#213 in the RPI with an SOS of 335.
3-0 in the A10 though. Not too shabby. We are 1-2.

They beat Dayton in Pitt, GW in Pitt, and Fordham at Fordham.
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  #389  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Because the search for a new coach on this message board is in full swing right now.
So he is like Roy Harper, I get it.
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  #390  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So he is like Roy Harper, I get it.
Who's Roy Harper? Is he Ray's brother?
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  #391  
Old 01-07-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UDSpud View Post
Better than BG. Not as good as AM.
Interesting prediction. from March .
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  #392  
Old 01-07-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by UDSpud View Post
Better than BG. Not as good as AM.
Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Interesting prediction. from March .
I agree with Spud.

My ranking: Archie 1, OP 2, AG 3, BG 4.
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  #393  
Old 01-07-2018, 05:04 PM
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AG lacks a player that can create his own shot. Mckinley was going to be that guy but he isn't here.
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  #394  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
AG lacks a player that can create his own shot. Mckinley was going to be that guy but he isn't here.
Jordan Davis can but not when he is on the bench for the last 13 minutes of the second half!
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  #395  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:54 PM
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AG lacks senior leadership on his team.
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  #396  
Old 01-08-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
AG lacks senior leadership on his team.
Yes he does as well as any kind of leadership overall. Not surprising. It's tough for a kid like DD that struggled mightily the past 2 years to all of a sudden become both a 20 ppg scorer and become THAT leader they need. He simply might not have that type of demeanor. After all, Baby D is not that far removed from being a kid that got down on himself quite a bit. Cunningham, while a captain and NOT a senior, simply may not be that kind of person not to mention that leadership, imo, needs to come from a player that touches the ball consistently similar to a QB..

LOL at the amount of people on this site that minimize the fact that 4 starters are lost from a year ago, not to mention injuries, etc. Had UD won saturday's game on a 3 pointer would that somehow minimize and mask the issues with them? Well, it's always nice to get the W and that seems to all of a sudden shape people's mindset that all of a sudden the "team is maturing" or they're "buying into the system" mentality...I was very very skeptical and said so after UD beat the Bonnies. Simply put they are going to win a few more games against teams they probably should not beat and lose to some they should....

None of this somehow minimizes all the questionable coaching decisions by this staff at times but, again, they're dealing with a new system and a bunch of new and young players..
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
...LOL at the amount of people on this site that minimize the fact that 4 starters are lost from a year ago, not to mention injuries, etc...they're dealing with a new system and a bunch of new and young players..
Yes, of the 6 guys who saw the most minutes for us last year, 4 graduated and 1 is out for the season following surgery on both hips. That leaves 1, and he (X) has had a bad back, and missed 1/3 of our games to-date. At our level, you donít replace that much experience with a bunch of 4- and 5-star recruits. You replace it with guys whoíve seen enough court time in previous years to make a contribution in the current year. And with Mikesell out, and Miller suspended, that means our returning experience consisted of X, DD, and JC times 2 (since Landers only saw 53 minutes of action in 2016-17). Thatís not much of a starting point.

And as steve also said, Iím not trying to excuse-away questionable coaching decisions (like leaving Jordan on the bench down the stretch on Saturday), but until Anthony gets more time with these players (and a few more of his own), Iím going to withhold judgment based purely on wins and losses. When people were calling for Archieís head 6 games into the conference season back in 2013-14, I was pi$$ed about effort and focus, but I was willing to at least give him until the end of the season (his 3rd). And unless the wheels fall completely off (a-la Jim Crews @ SLU), Iím willing to give Anthony 3 full years to show what he can do.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree with Spud.

My ranking: Archie 1, OP 2, AG 3, BG 4.
I generally agree with you, except thereís no way I can compare OP (who had 8 seasons here) to AG (15 games, to-date) at this point. See me in 3-1/2 years.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree with Spud.

My ranking: Archie 1, OP 2, AG 3, BG 4.
Anyone who is putting AG in any coaching ranking after 15 games is a fool and a blowhard. I sure hope you haven't already converted your 401Ks to Bit Coins.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Anyone who is putting AG in any coaching ranking after 15 games is a fool and a blowhard. I sure hope you haven't already converted your 401Ks to Bit Coins.
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My ranking is not based upon 15 games, it is based upon his previous 9 years as a hc plus the 15 games as UD's hc.

This is obviously not a final ranking, he will likely get at least 4 or 5 years here to improve that ranking.
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