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  #201  
Old 04-02-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
Thanks for your kind advice. But...I did see it coming.

Archibald's farewell was classless. His timing was worse. He took much too long to praise UD. Anyone on this forum could have written him a script which would have significantly lessened the blow to his rabid fans. His very first, second and third communication should have been related only to his fan-base (which does not include IU). We are the ones that supported him while he developed his resume.

Unlike AM, we feel that UD is the destination. Telling me that I am second fiddle does not make me feel good.

The core of my anger is that Archibald left the cupboard bare. He realized that next year (which is his doing) is an obvious rebuilding year and he would have a 50% record team (if the freshman stay). He was the President of the UD Fanatic Fan Company and chose to sell his stock at it's peak...with insider information.

Wait till next year (if UD loses their blue-chip players)...I respectfully predict that your pleasant song will be out of tune.
No..."We" don't see UD as destination job. UD may be a destination job for a 51 year old head coach. Not a 32 year old, aspiring for banners, head coach. When your mid-major university hires a hot coach...anyone with a clue knows you are the stepping stone. You don't have to like it, but anyone that understands UD's position and the nature of college basketball, gets it. You are second fiddle to P5 schools that have the ability to compete for E8 spots on a regular basis. Like it or not, there is a ceiling here and if you think that ceiling competes with the likes of UNC, Duke, Kansas, IU, etc...year after year, decade after decade...you are kidding yourself. Can and should UD compete for these E8 positions from time to time? Yes. But to expect it year after year with the regularity of the P5 schools that do it regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ok...so a couple recruits bounce. Cupboard bare? Hardly. It is laughable that some think that this team was going to be "cupboard bare" "rebuilding" even with Archie at the helm nest year...come on. St. Louis is rebuilding. UD was and will be dealing with some adversity. The guys on the roster now aren't bums and will be able to hold their own.

Archie owes you, me, us, UD nothing. He was hired to coach the game, mentor young men, and be an ambassador to UD. Nothing more, nothing less. He did that and he did it well.

The level of butthurt over losing a coach is something else. If you didn't see this coming, you weren't paying attention. This year. Next year. Three years from now. It doesn't matter. AM leaving at any time is going to be a tough pill to swallow and a hurdle that UD hoops has to get over and one they were going to have to get over. AM wasn't staying here for 30 years and retiring from UD. He had a short list of schools, most likely 3 of them...and one of the 3 came up. Had one of those 3 not opened up this year, he would still be here IMO. He wasn't shopping around and looking to get out when the first school came calling.
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  #202  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:28 AM
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I think Zaga & Wichita would give the top of the P5 a run for their money on any given day. The Zags are within reach of the whole kit and caboodle. It is not hard to see UD at the same level as those teams. We are actually pretty close if you ask me. I also think AG will recruit better players than AM did, and this may just be enough to get us there.
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  #203  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:01 AM
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Destination Job?

How do you define "Destination Job"?

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Oakland, Belmont, Davidson?
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  #204  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:27 AM
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wonder if monson wished he never moved on or considered Gonzaga a destination job back then.

UD is a destination job!

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  #205  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
I think Zaga & Wichita would give the top of the P5 a run for their money on any given day. The Zags are within reach of the whole kit and caboodle. It is not hard to see UD at the same level as those teams. We are actually pretty close if you ask me. I also think AG will recruit better players than AM did, and this may just be enough to get us there.

By any measureable amount we're far away from them.
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  #206  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:23 AM
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I don't think UD is far from the level where WSU resides. However we and every other mid-major should wave bye-bye to the 'Zags. They're moving on up to hi-major status. No short-term blip on the chart like Butler. They are bona-fide.
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  #207  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:45 AM
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all resources (if not more) are there to be every bit as good....
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I don't think UD is far from the level where WSU resides. However we and every other mid-major should wave bye-bye to the 'Zags. They're moving on up to hi-major status. No short-term blip on the chart like Butler. They are bona-fide.
I agree the Zags are "bona-fide"....but 21 NCAA tourney wins since the turn of the century is a bit more than a blip for Butler on the chart. Xavier and Butler are part of the Big Boy club...by any metric the last 15 years. The Zags are an enigma of their own. The Shockers are likely on their way to the AAC. UD needs an upgrade in conference land. We have everything else.
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  #209  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I don't think UD is far from the level where WSU resides. However we and every other mid-major should wave bye-bye to the 'Zags. They're moving on up to hi-major status. No short-term blip on the chart like Butler. They are bona-fide.
LMAO. Butler short-term? Do you even follow them?
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  #210  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I don't think UD is far from the level where WSU resides. However we and every other mid-major should wave bye-bye to the 'Zags. They're moving on up to hi-major status. No short-term blip on the chart like Butler. They are bona-fide.
Lol so a trip to the NC game one time makes you bona-fide but a trip twice makes you a short-term blip?
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  #211  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Lol so a trip to the NC game one time makes you bona-fide but a trip twice makes you a short-term blip?
It's taco Tuesday tomorrow.
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  #212  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
No..."We" don't see UD as destination job. UD may be a destination job for a 51 year old head coach. Not a 32 year old, aspiring for banners, head coach. When your mid-major university hires a hot coach...anyone with a clue knows you are the stepping stone. You don't have to like it, but anyone that understands UD's position and the nature of college basketball, gets it. You are second fiddle to P5 schools that have the ability to compete for E8 spots on a regular basis. Like it or not, there is a ceiling here and if you think that ceiling competes with the likes of UNC, Duke, Kansas, IU, etc...year after year, decade after decade...you are kidding yourself. Can and should UD compete for these E8 positions from time to time? Yes. But to expect it year after year with the regularity of the P5 schools that do it regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ok...so a couple recruits bounce. Cupboard bare? Hardly. It is laughable that some think that this team was going to be "cupboard bare" "rebuilding" even with Archie at the helm nest year...come on. St. Louis is rebuilding. UD was and will be dealing with some adversity. The guys on the roster now aren't bums and will be able to hold their own.

Archie owes you, me, us, UD nothing. He was hired to coach the game, mentor young men, and be an ambassador to UD. Nothing more, nothing less. He did that and he did it well.

The level of butthurt over losing a coach is something else. If you didn't see this coming, you weren't paying attention. This year. Next year. Three years from now. It doesn't matter. AM leaving at any time is going to be a tough pill to swallow and a hurdle that UD hoops has to get over and one they were going to have to get over. AM wasn't staying here for 30 years and retiring from UD. He had a short list of schools, most likely 3 of them...and one of the 3 came up. Had one of those 3 not opened up this year, he would still be here IMO. He wasn't shopping around and looking to get out when the first school came calling.
Shocka43: i concur. You stated it well. You stated it with a sense of reality. Yes, it is a hard pill to swallow. We all want our little beloved university to do well and to prosper.
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  #213  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:18 AM
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In the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been a #1 seed twice and a #2 seed once. Considering the crapshoot nature of the tourney, I think that's a better representation of how good they've been.

Butler had Brad Stevens, the best college coach in recent memory. Or at least, the best basketball mind and in-game coach I've seen at the college ranks, and he's basically doing the same thing with a relatively untalented team in Boston. Wichita has been awesome under Marshall, but not the sustained excellence of Gonzaga.
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  #214  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
No..."We" don't see UD as destination job. UD may be a destination job for a 51 year old head coach. Not a 32 year old, aspiring for banners, head coach. When your mid-major university hires a hot coach...anyone with a clue knows you are the stepping stone. You don't have to like it, but anyone that understands UD's position and the nature of college basketball, gets it. You are second fiddle to P5 schools that have the ability to compete for E8 spots on a regular basis. Like it or not, there is a ceiling here and if you think that ceiling competes with the likes of UNC, Duke, Kansas, IU, etc...year after year, decade after decade...you are kidding yourself. Can and should UD compete for these E8 positions from time to time? Yes. But to expect it year after year with the regularity of the P5 schools that do it regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ok...so a couple recruits bounce. Cupboard bare? Hardly. It is laughable that some think that this team was going to be "cupboard bare" "rebuilding" even with Archie at the helm nest year...come on. St. Louis is rebuilding. UD was and will be dealing with some adversity. The guys on the roster now aren't bums and will be able to hold their own.

Archie owes you, me, us, UD nothing. He was hired to coach the game, mentor young men, and be an ambassador to UD. Nothing more, nothing less. He did that and he did it well.

The level of butthurt over losing a coach is something else. If you didn't see this coming, you weren't paying attention. This year. Next year. Three years from now. It doesn't matter. AM leaving at any time is going to be a tough pill to swallow and a hurdle that UD hoops has to get over and one they were going to have to get over. AM wasn't staying here for 30 years and retiring from UD. He had a short list of schools, most likely 3 of them...and one of the 3 came up. Had one of those 3 not opened up this year, he would still be here IMO. He wasn't shopping around and looking to get out when the first school came calling.
Your last few posts have been absolutely spot on! Thank you!
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  #215  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sitdowndigger View Post
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...er-forget-that

wonder if monson wished he never moved on or considered Gonzaga a destination job back then.

UD is a destination job!
Bump. Players/recruits reaction to this and Anthony Grant is agreement.
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  #216  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Your last few posts have been absolutely spot on! Thank you!

The thread is about players/recruits reactions to Grant's hiring, so on that note, not quite spot on.
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  #217  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
The thread is about players/recruits reactions to Grant's hiring, so on that note, not quite spot on.
Fair enough.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by steve snyder View Post
I agree the Zags are "bona-fide"....but 21 NCAA tourney wins since the turn of the century is a bit more than a blip for Butler on the chart. Xavier and Butler are part of the Big Boy club...by any metric the last 15 years. The Zags are an enigma of their own. The Shockers are likely on their way to the AAC. UD needs an upgrade in conference land. We have everything else.
Fair enough. I agree X is on Gonzaga's level but Butler is not quite there. Jmo.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Lol so a trip to the NC game one time makes you bona-fide but a trip twice makes you a short-term blip?
Well, their coach that took them there is with the Celts so I say you won't see it ever again. There. Now, Few?
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by big jordan View Post
In the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been a #1 seed twice and a #2 seed once. Considering the crapshoot nature of the tourney, I think that's a better representation of how good they've been.

Butler had Brad Stevens, the best college coach in recent memory. Or at least, the best basketball mind and in-game coach I've seen at the college ranks, and he's basically doing the same thing with a relatively untalented team in Boston. Wichita has been awesome under Marshall, but not the sustained excellence of Gonzaga.
My sentiments exactly
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  #221  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:24 AM
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The biggest difference between X, Gonzaga, Butler, WSU and Dayton is players. We do what we do with 3 star and lower. All of those teams have put players in the NBA in the last five years and will continue to do so, and when I say put players in the NBA I mean players who are drafted and play, not who make a team as an undrafted FA or late season roster expansion. The next step is to start getting players at UD who are a notch higher. At that point things start to snowball. Good players come and win, which makes other good players come, etc...

This is not a knock on our players or coaches. The development has been good but at some point God given ability means something too.
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  #222  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:28 AM
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Biggest difference between UD and Duke is players. The biggest difference between Duke and Radford is players..
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  #223  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
The biggest difference between X, Gonzaga, Butler, WSU and Dayton is players. We do what we do with 3 star and lower. All of those teams have put players in the NBA in the last five years and will continue to do so, and when I say put players in the NBA I mean players who are drafted and play, not who make a team as an undrafted FA or late season roster expansion. The next step is to start getting players at UD who are a notch higher. At that point things start to snowball. Good players come and win, which makes other good players come, etc...

This is not a knock on our players or coaches. The development has been good but at some point God given ability means something too.
And we need to keep as many of our current recruits as possible so we can build on that group. I believe AG will be a better recruiter than Archie, who was good. The next step forward will need the current group as a solid foundation.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:52 AM
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Somebody assist me here but I'm assuming starting immediately after his PC or yesterday that AG is on a plane and going to visit as many of the recruits as he can?
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:54 AM
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I wish I shared your enthusiasm, Becky. I won't argue AG's players coming in will be of higher star rating. I'm questioning their potential development and how good they are when they leave. As compared to Archie.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Biggest difference between UD and Duke is players. The biggest difference between Duke and Radford is players..
Correct, but I think the point was comparing UD to other non-power 5 schools in the sense that "we can get there too." I was just pointing out that getting to tourney is one thing, but being a legit contender, (i.e. not Cinderella if you win two games), requires personnel and not just great coaches, fans, or support from the administration.
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  #227  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I wish I shared your enthusiasm, Becky. I won't argue AG's players coming in will be of higher star rating. I'm questioning their potential development and how good they are when they leave. As compared to Archie.
I don't disagree with you're comment here. It's the unknown. I think he brings in some higher ranked players in each class, but what he does with them isn't clear. And how far we go with them is unknown. But he does have a good background in landing recruits. Archie had some of that too, but AGs is a little better.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:04 PM
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Yeah, it's ALL about their performance while they're here. I may be guilty of rooting for Sea Biscuit instead of War Admiral
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:07 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
Correct, but I think the point was comparing UD to other non-power 5 schools in the sense that "we can get there too." I was just pointing out that getting to tourney is one thing, but being a legit contender, (i.e. not Cinderella if you win two games), requires personnel and not just great coaches, fans, or support from the administration.
I understand. Nice post. But my point or counterpoint was if UD had Duke's players they would be Duke. The rest would follow. What was the quote on Field of Dreams? Build it and they will come.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:11 PM
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My Grandpa told me when I was a child the best way to catch a bird was to put salt on its tail. Didn't say anymore for what seemed like weeks. I thought and thought and thought about it before I queried, Grandpa, what would that do?

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Old 04-03-2017, 12:13 PM
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Duke sucked under Chapel when Coach K was out after back surgery.

Coaching matters.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Duke sucked under Chapel when Coach K was out after back surgery.

Coaching matters.
Without a great coach like K, you or chapel don't recruit a bazillion McDonald's All-Americans, Suh.. Just saying if someone wants to argue players are the difference that is stating the obvious. Didn't want to be rude, but since you're here I can ask for forgiveness

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  #233  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Without a great coach like K, you or chapel don't recruit a bazillion McDonald's All-Americans, Suh.. Just saying if someone wants to argue players are the difference that is stating the obvious. Didn't want to be rude, but since you're here I can ask for forgiveness

In all honesty, I believe that Chapel and Coach K are equals...and the difference in results between the 2 caoches was 100% the fault of the refs!

Officiating Matters!
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  #234  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:31 PM
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And I thought I was painting myself into a corner
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:42 PM
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I did not want to put it in the confirmed reports only thread as talk is cheap, but I was told by a close family member of one of our current players that all players appear to love AG (once they all googled him, did their homework, then met him face to face), are quite excited for the future, and plan to stay. In addition, a few good friendships had been formed with a couple of the recruits, and our current players are working hard to keep everyone committed.

According to him, current players are also hoping Ostrom stays, for what its worth. The Ostrom to Indiana comment one of the players made was strictly a bunch of kids clowning around.
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  #236  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:16 PM
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Give Ostrom the first chair. Keep current players, help lock in McKinley and the others and move on. There's a reason there's no talk of releases and what not. I bet they are waiting on the Ostrom/Kuwik situations to be resolved
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  #237  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
The Ostrom to Indiana comment one of the players made was strictly a bunch of kids clowning around.
It was, after all, April Fools Day.
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  #238  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:25 PM
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The optimist in me thinks that if someone is willing to joke about it, that it is a positive sign.
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  #239  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Give Ostrom the first chair. Keep current players, help lock in McKinley and the others and move on. There's a reason there's no talk of releases and what not. I bet they are waiting on the Ostrom/Kuwik situations to be resolved
Why wait. If they have what they think is a better offer they would go.

Wonder how long Grant gives them to sign up or move on? At least in the near term we might fare better with graduate transfers.
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I did not want to put it in the confirmed reports only thread as talk is cheap, but I was told by a close family member of one of our current players that all players appear to love AG (once they all googled him, did their homework, then met him face to face), are quite excited for the future, and plan to stay.
As an example, after a google search Mikesell was quoted in the DDN as saying: "Wow, this guy's a pretty big deal. He coached at the highest level. He knows the game as well as anyone. He's been all over the place." I imagine all the players feel this way. He IS a pretty big deal.
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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One thing about the players and recruits. AG coached a different style the Archie. His was a pressing team at VCU, the one that Shaka named havoc.

He will take a few years to get his players, I will be interested to see the Flyers press and run.

Hi Huggy Bear!!
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Why wait. If they have what they think is a better offer they would go.

Wonder how long Grant gives them to sign up or move on? At least in the near term we might fare better with graduate transfers.
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Actually, they are already signed up. If they just maintain status quo they will be here in the fall.
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  #243  
Old 04-03-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
One thing about the players and recruits. AG coached a different style the Archie. His was a pressing team at VCU, the one that Shaka named havoc.

He will take a few years to get his players, I will be interested to see the Flyers press and run.

Hi Huggy Bear!!
Sounds maybe like a good fit for Mr. Landers.
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Sounds maybe like a good fit for Mr. Landers.
I also think TL benefits the most from new coach AG. I don't understand at all the fact he got such little playing time under AM . His shot looked no worse than anyone else though i admittedly have no facts to back up his %. Will be interested to see him next year. He definitely has the hops.
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  #245  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I also think TL benefits the most from new coach AG. I don't understand at all the fact he got such little playing time under AM . His shot looked no worse than anyone else though i admittedly have no facts to back up his %. Will be interested to see him next year. He definitely has the hops.
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Struggled on defense, and for most of the year couldn't play more than 30 seconds without fouling.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Struggled on defense, and for most of the year couldn't play more than 30 seconds without fouling.
Yeah, that's a great reason. Punish a freshman for having holes in his game.

The reason he didn't get playing time is because we had a full roster of 4 seniors, 1 junior and 5 sophomores. There just wasn't enough minutes to go around to a freshman this season.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, that's a great reason. Punish a freshman for having holes in his game.

The reason he didn't get playing time is because we had a full roster of 4 seniors, 1 junior and 5 sophomores. There just wasn't enough minutes to go around to a freshman this season.
A better reason might be that the team was stacked with SG's and SF's. In addition, if he had the abilities of the two freshmen at Duquesne he might have seen more playing time.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, that's a great reason. Punish a freshman for having holes in his game.

The reason he didn't get playing time is because we had a full roster of 4 seniors, 1 junior and 5 sophomores. There just wasn't enough minutes to go around to a freshman this season.
It's not punishing a player if he doesn't have the ability to stay on the floor. Landers played in 9 games. 8 min 4 fouls vs St. Mary's, 3 min 3 fouls vs Nebraska, 1 foul in 4 min vs Portland, 4 fouls in 9 min vs St. Joseph, 1 foul in 8 min vs VMI, 3 fouls in 6min vs St. Louis and 1 foul in 7min vs Duquesne and St. Louis. He clearly was not ready for the speed of the game. He did look better his last few though.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...9/trey-landers
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
IMO, AM never meant to mislead or hurt anyone...things change, feelings change, times change, minds change.
I don't think he even did that. I never took any of his statements as I am going to stay here no matter who comes calling.

He seemed appreciative of the fact that he could essentially coach at UD as long as he wanted. He was appreciative of the support from the athletic department and the administration. But I never heard anything he said to take that to a point of I won't leave, I'm staying here as long as I coach.

I'm happy my current employer is likely to allow me to continue in my role until I decide to retire. A few months from now if the right opportunity comes along, one I don't think I can pass up before I retire, I could take it. Both of those statements can be true.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, that's a great reason. Punish a freshman for having holes in his game.

The reason he didn't get playing time is because we had a full roster of 4 seniors, 1 junior and 5 sophomores. There just wasn't enough minutes to go around to a freshman this season.
Archie didn't call me so I am assuming he didn't play because he didn't deserve to play (in comparison to the other players on the team). Whether it was talent, effort or understanding I'm not sure. The fouls were probably a result of some combination of them.Hopefully, he has learned, improve and adjusted to contribute this year.

I sincerely doubt that he showed better in practice but didn't play because other kids were older. It's not a civil service job; it's a meritocrocy. Even though it means I'm an ass/u/me again, I assume you meant that but I don't want to presume to speak for you.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:23 PM
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Red face

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
No..."We" don't see UD as destination job. UD may be a destination job for a 51 year old head coach. Not a 32 year old, aspiring for banners, head coach. When your mid-major university hires a hot coach...anyone with a clue knows you are the stepping stone. You don't have to like it, but anyone that understands UD's position and the nature of college basketball, gets it. You are second fiddle to P5 schools that have the ability to compete for E8 spots on a regular basis. Like it or not, there is a ceiling here and if you think that ceiling competes with the likes of UNC, Duke, Kansas, IU, etc...year after year, decade after decade...you are kidding yourself. Can and should UD compete for these E8 positions from time to time? Yes. But to expect it year after year with the regularity of the P5 schools that do it regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ok...so a couple recruits bounce. Cupboard bare? Hardly. It is laughable that some think that this team was going to be "cupboard bare" "rebuilding" even with Archie at the helm nest year...come on. St. Louis is rebuilding. UD was and will be dealing with some adversity. The guys on the roster now aren't bums and will be able to hold their own.

Archie owes you, me, us, UD nothing. He was hired to coach the game, mentor young men, and be an ambassador to UD. Nothing more, nothing less. He did that and he did it well.

The level of butthurt over losing a coach is something else. If you didn't see this coming, you weren't paying attention. This year. Next year. Three years from now. It doesn't matter. AM leaving at any time is going to be a tough pill to swallow and a hurdle that UD hoops has to get over and one they were going to have to get over. AM wasn't staying here for 30 years and retiring from UD. He had a short list of schools, most likely 3 of them...and one of the 3 came up. Had one of those 3 not opened up this year, he would still be here IMO. He wasn't shopping around and looking to get out when the first school came calling.
Please --- I respectfully request that you refrain from being condescending (and somewhat insulting).

Of course I saw it coming (as I stated earlier)...Of course it is business... BTW I suspect that I have the experience and success to train most people (perhaps even you) on business practices, establishment of goals, balancing work and family, career objectives...etc. etc. Don't preach to me...please...unless of course you have a successful track record of managing hundreds of people... I could be go on but I would be preaching too.

It may be "laughable, don't have a clue, kidding yourself, setting up for failure...etc. etc." Please...will you check your post to ensure that I have captured your multiple condescending insults.

My point is that this coaching IS a business and I don't like it. Archie is a master at it. For some coaches (but not all) it has the same rules as business. It is conducted as a business. It has no identifiable loyalty, personality, commitment, values...etc. etc. Again, I could go on. It is a pay for play business...BUT...it really is unlike any other typical business.

Business in the US has no FANS. It is business and solely business. If you want to be a money *****...then go for it. People don't care. I think most of us can all agree upon this opinion.

When you enter "FANS" into the equation...the norms change. Your fans have an emotional investment in you. They care about you, your family, your contribution to the community, etc. They follow your (in this case Archibald) silly sport and hope that you have invested in them too...i.e. the fans.

When you leave for more fertile ground, you should (IMO) carefully craft your exit. It is respectful. It is recognition that you have loyal fans. In Archibald's case it is plain good business. Again, would you like me to train you on intelligent and successful business practices and communication? But then again...that would be preaching in a condescending manner...I will refrain from this (at least on this post)

You mentioned St. Louis building ...their last 3 seasons are:

11-21
11-21
12-21

If we suffer through 3 season like this...I respectfully request that you put this date on your calendar and 3 years from now tell me again how you respect Archibald and his success in building a sustainable basketball business.

Last edited by UDTradition; 04-03-2017 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post

You mentioned St. Louis building ...their last 3 seasons are:

11-21
11-21
12-21

If we suffer through 3 season like this...I respectfully request that you put this date on your calendar and 3 years from now tell me again how you respect Archibald and his success in building a sustainable basketball business.

Your St. Louis argument makes no sense. The two 11-21 seasons were under the direction of the JOB of St.Louis, Jim Crews. They are indeed rebuilding with a good recruiting class coming in as well as several high profile transfers eligible next year, only the 2nd season of re-building under Travis Ford. St. Louis will easily be back in the top half of the A-10 next season, and contend for the title the following year.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Your St. Louis argument makes no sense. The two 11-21 seasons were under the direction of the JOB of St.Louis, Jim Crews. They are indeed rebuilding with a good recruiting class coming in as well as several high profile transfers eligible next year, only the 2nd season of re-building under Travis Ford. St. Louis will easily be back in the top half of the A-10 next season, and contend for the title the following year.
I'm not trying to get into an argument, just offering my opinion.

Regarding St. Louis - It was not my point that Crews did great and then left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, he left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, if the freshman leave then Archie left the cupboard bare. Next year (2017-18), if St. Louis plays the new great recruiting class (Freshman)...they are unlikely to have a great season because they will be loaded with Freshman. IMHO UD is unlikely to do much better, in fact, they may not have the freshman and it could be worse.

For Travis Ford it got worse because they had at least 2 solid recruits transfer when Crews got fired. Travis Ford suffered through last season and is likely to limp through next season... Your opinion is that he will have the beginning of a solid team in 2018-19. Bottom line is that Ford suffered for at least 2 seasons because of poor recruiting and freshman transferring. That is my point.

Archie should be acknowledged for returning UD's basketball respect. However, he is leaving UD with a 4 year recruiting mess that might get worse if his poorly timed exit results in another blown recruiting class. Here is Archie's resume...the freshman class of 2014 (only DD), 2015(5 players but the book is still out), 2016 (only Trey) and 2017 (your guess is as better than mine). This is the legacy of a legendary coach?
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
I'm not trying to get into an argument, just offering my opinion.

Regarding St. Louis - It was not my point that Crews did great and then left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, he left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, if the freshman leave then Archie left the cupboard bare. Next year (2017-18), if St. Louis plays the new great recruiting class (Freshman)...they are unlikely to have a great season because they will be loaded with Freshman. IMHO UD is unlikely to do much better, in fact, they may not have the freshman and it could be worse.

For Travis Ford it got worse because they had at least 2 solid recruits transfer when Crews got fired. Travis Ford suffered through last season and is likely to limp through next season... Your opinion is that he will have the beginning of a solid team in 2018-19. Bottom line is that Ford suffered for at least 2 seasons because of poor recruiting and freshman transferring. That is my point.

Archie should be acknowledged for returning UD's basketball respect. However, he is leaving UD with a 4 year recruiting mess that might get worse if his poorly timed exit results in another blown recruiting class. Here is Archie's resume...the freshman class of 2014 (only DD), 2015(5 players but the book is still out), 2016 (only Trey) and 2017 (your guess is as better than mine). This is the legacy of a legendary coach?
Doesn't SLU have five transfers eligible to play next year that are all highly regarded? He may not have to rely on the incoming freshmen as much as one might think.
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  #255  
Old 04-04-2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
it has the same rules as business. It is conducted as a business. It has no identifiable loyalty, personality, commitment, values...etc. etc.
Maybe I missed your point, but are you saying business has no loyalty or values or commitment?
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerLiar View Post
Maybe I missed your point, but are you saying business has no loyalty or values or commitment?
FlyerLiar - With all due respect, I am tired of this subject and have turned the page.
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
Archie didn't call me so I am assuming he didn't play because he didn't deserve to play (in comparison to the other players on the team). Whether it was talent, effort or understanding I'm not sure. The fouls were probably a result of some combination of them.Hopefully, he has learned, improve and adjusted to contribute this year.

I sincerely doubt that he showed better in practice but didn't play because other kids were older. It's not a civil service job; it's a meritocrocy. Even though it means I'm an ass/u/me again, I assume you meant that but I don't want to presume to speak for you.
No, what I meant is yes, he's the least productive scholarship player on the team because he lacks the experience of others. That's not why he didn't get the minutes other "least productive scholarship player due lack of experience" in the past have gotten. In the past, they didn't have 10 higher class teammates with more experience that made them better at that time in the system in front of them on the depth chart.

The more time in real action that you can get a player that needs development, the better, that shouldn't be argued and AM would've done that if he wasn't sophomore and senior heavy. Landers kind of got a raw deal in that regard and AM lost nothing because now that he doesn't have to suffer through a sophomore who's behind the curve due to lack of playing time.

Last edited by Smitty10; 04-04-2017 at 03:02 AM..
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Fair enough. I agree X is on Gonzaga's level but Butler is not quite there. Jmo.
Butler has made 2 Championship games and was a power before and still is. One could argue they are BETTER then Gonzaga and _avier
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:28 PM
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One could also validate the word 'was', BRob.. Stevens is gone and their ceiling is nowhere near Gonzaga's with Few's 18 years mounting.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:57 PM
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Who did it right?

Response to your comments in total UD Tradition. Who has departed a job correctly for another job in the business of coaching? I disagree with a substantial amount of your content, but respectfully want to know an example of one who you feel got it right. What factors make it right? When you announce your departure? How much talent you leave for the program in your wake? How much praise you heap on, and when you do it for your former employer?

Have you ever left a job? I hope you followed your own blueprint.



Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
I'm not trying to get into an argument, just offering my opinion.

Regarding St. Louis - It was not my point that Crews did great and then left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, he left the cupboard bare. Plane and simple, if the freshman leave then Archie left the cupboard bare. Next year (2017-18), if St. Louis plays the new great recruiting class (Freshman)...they are unlikely to have a great season because they will be loaded with Freshman. IMHO UD is unlikely to do much better, in fact, they may not have the freshman and it could be worse.

For Travis Ford it got worse because they had at least 2 solid recruits transfer when Crews got fired. Travis Ford suffered through last season and is likely to limp through next season... Your opinion is that he will have the beginning of a solid team in 2018-19. Bottom line is that Ford suffered for at least 2 seasons because of poor recruiting and freshman transferring. That is my point.

Archie should be acknowledged for returning UD's basketball respect. However, he is leaving UD with a 4 year recruiting mess that might get worse if his poorly timed exit results in another blown recruiting class. Here is Archie's resume...the freshman class of 2014 (only DD), 2015(5 players but the book is still out), 2016 (only Trey) and 2017 (your guess is as better than mine). This is the legacy of a legendary coach?
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:58 PM
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Xavier is not on Gonzaga's level. Zags have been a 1 twice and a 2 once in the past 5 years.

Xavier has only been a 2 seed once and a 3 seed twice in their history.
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:30 PM
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Red face

Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Xavier is not on Gonzaga's level. Zags have been a 1 twice and a 2 once in the past 5 years.

Xavier has only been a 2 seed once and a 3 seed twice in their history.
You know, you're right. I used the same metric to strengthen my argument. I can't have it both ways.
My reasoning was to exclude Butler due to Stevens and all his intangibles being gone from there. Whereas X and the Zags have established coaches that are trending upward.
But X isn't on Gonzaga's level. In fact they overachieved this year to get where they got. Zags are clearly on another level even projecting forward. I stand corrected. Feel cleaner now too that my praise to them was unjustified
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Xavier is not on Gonzaga's level. Zags have been a 1 twice and a 2 once in the past 5 years.

Xavier has only been a 2 seed once and a 3 seed twice in their history.
While they're not on the same level, they're pretty close.

Looking in the mirror, I would say Xavier is closer to Gonzaga than Dayton is to Xavier. I know we didn't have Dayton in this necessarily, but it does provide a reasonable comparable as to the gap(s) and where we might stand as well.
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
While they're not on the same level, they're pretty close.
Xavier is definitely in a better conference. I would've agreed they were pretty close until the last 5 years. Gonzaga has become an elite program. Xavier is top-20, they just don't miss the tournament.

Looking in the mirror, I would say Xavier is closer to Gonzaga than Dayton is to Xavier.
I would agree.
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  #265  
Old 04-09-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I did not want to put it in the confirmed reports only thread as talk is cheap, but I was told by a close family member of one of our current players that all players appear to love AG (once they all googled him, did their homework, then met him face to face), are quite excited for the future, and plan to stay. In addition, a few good friendships had been formed with a couple of the recruits, and our current players are working hard to keep everyone committed.

According to him, current players are also hoping Ostrom stays, for what its worth. The Ostrom to Indiana comment one of the players made was strictly a bunch of kids clowning around.
I am just repeating what I have been told, so take it anyway you want to take it, as I talked to the same family member again and here is a bit of an update.

It appears Archie is making a big push for Ostrom, and as others have said rumors all over the Indiana boards, it appears he will end up in Bloomington after all. Kuwik will probably remain a Flyer at this point.

As for recruits, Pierce and Carter will both be Flyers along with Davis. He does not know much about Svoboda,but no indications yet that he is not coming. Wright still talking with current players, so still not out of the question he ends up here, but would not bank on it.

Those worrying about Greek Freek 3, need to relax a bit.

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Old 04-09-2017, 10:01 AM
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Isn't Kuwik's wife from the Dayton area and I believe she may be an attorney. I could see him saying why leave for a similar position. Upgrade sure.
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Isn't Kuwik's wife from the Dayton area and I believe she may be an attorney. I could see him saying why leave for a similar position. Upgrade sure.
Yep, plus they have a lot of great things going on in their home life now.
I can not imagine him leaving town now from what I know about the family.
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  #268  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Yep, plus they have a lot of great things going on in their home life now.
I can not imagine him leaving town now from what I know about the family.
PM details please?

Greek Freak 3? Kostas have a brother or is Giannis Greek Freak 2?
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  #269  
Old 04-09-2017, 11:09 AM
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Good to hear Kuwit might be staying. I was hoping Ostrom's family was wanting to stay in Dayton. Someone had posted way back 2 weeks ago that his daughter was baptized in the UD Chapel. It would be great for the team if we could keep both guys, at least for a year or two. At the same time I'm sure AM is pushing hard to get at least Ostrom, if not both, but both are still listed on our roster, so I believe it's a very tough decision for all. Hopefully UD wins the assistant coaches battle.
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Old 04-09-2017, 12:29 PM
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The oldest brother is (or perhaps was, don't know his current status) playing in the D-league for the Knicks organization. Kostas is child #3 (or at least son, not sure if they have any sisters) and the youngest is a frosh or soph in HS.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:11 PM
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has a picture of Carter and Grant tweeted by Carter's mother yesterday.
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  #272  
Old 04-09-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
The oldest brother is (or perhaps was, don't know his current status) playing in the D-league for the Knicks organization. Kostas is child #3 (or at least son, not sure if they have any sisters) and the youngest is a frosh or soph in HS.
The oldest brother was a soccer player. #2 was drafted by the Knicks in 2014. #3 is an all-Star for the Bucks. #4 will lead his college team to the Final Four next year. #5 is a high school basketball player.

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  #273  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:00 PM
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This retweet from Nahziah Carter:

David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski 2h2 hours ago
Talked to former @DaytonMBB assistant and new Syracuse assistant Allen Griffin today. He had this to say about his time at UD


First- what a classy thing for Coach Griffin to say.
Second- nice for Nahziah to take note and retweet. You gotta be proud of our program to have this impression made to an outgoing coach and also (hopefully) an incoming student athlete.
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