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  #1  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
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Let's recall the 2008-2009 season

Brian Roberts, one of the greatest, had just graduated, along with Jimmie Binnie and Andres Sandoval. That's 3 of our top 4 assist guys leaving to graduation so who was going to handle the ball next year?? Together they accounted for 31 PPG + all kinds of heart and soul of the team. Sure, we had some returning talent for the following year with sophomore Chris Wright, junior Marcus Johnson, and senior Charles Little.

But the only returning ball handler was junior London Warren.

LW just finished his sophomore season where he had an A/TO ratio of 0.84 (WOW). He averaged 4.3 PPG and 2.6 fouls in 18 minutes as a sophomore. Everyone assumed transfer Rob Lowery would take over the starting PG position with LW relegated to the bench, maybe even with sophomore Stephen Thomas playing some to cover for the wildly inconsistent LW. And let's not forget that shooting guards Mickey Perry and Marcus Johnson could surely play a few minutes at PG as a backup as well as this freshman Paul Williams kid--anything had to be better than the turnover machine that was LW as a sophomore.

The rest of the story: LW started 33 of 35 games. He played 21.5 minutes per game (compared to RL's 18.2), had an A/TO ratio of 2.33 (compared to RL's 1.68), dished out 154 assists which is 10 MORE than SS had last year (compared to RL's 84, Johnson's 54, Perry's 27 and Thomas's 20), and UD went 27-8 that year.

Oh we also won our first tournament game against WV.

Now, are the situations EXACTLY, PRECISELY the same? Of course not. LW was forced to play as a sophomore because after Roberts there really was no other option to play PG, and Roberts had to spend a lot of energy leading the team in scoring so unlike SS he needed breaks (34.7 MPG) so LW was forced into action (unlike SS (31.3 MPG) who could play almost the whole game but conserve some energy by letting others score). SS also had more help on defense from KD who was a maniac on defense. LW couldn't shoot but JC can reasonably shoot from outside. Wright took a lot of the pressure off of LW with his pure athleticism. JC's A/TO ratio as a sophomore was 1.15 but in far fewer minutes per game and far fewer total assists. . . but he made more 3's as a sophomore than LW did in his career.

No, it's not exactly the same. But that's not the greater point.

The point is that nobody gave LW the sophomore any reasonable chance to become LW the junior. And of course he didn't have to turn into LW the junior; he could have failed and we never talk about him again. But he didn't fail. And similarly no one is really giving JC a chance as a junior. He may fail, I obviously can't say for sure. He might fail and we never talk about him again. But with few other options . . . he might just succeed.

But when you compare him to LW, it's not totally crazy to imagine. He's not as quick as LW but he's a far better shooter. LW took a shot every 20 seconds of game time as a sophomore, JC took a shot every 23 seconds. LW was a 51% FT shooter, JC was a 44% FT shooter. LW made 1-2 from 3, JC made 11-23. LW had a rebound every 16 seconds, JC had a rebound every 15 seconds.

But, it could actually happen.

Last edited by Gazoo; 04-12-2017 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
But when you compare him to LW, it's not totally crazy to imagine. He's not as quick as LW but he's a far better shooter. LW took a shot every 20 seconds of game time as a sophomore, JC took a shot every 23 seconds. LW was a 51% FT shooter, JC was a 44% FT shooter. LW made 1-2 from 3, JC made 11-23. LW had a rebound every 16 seconds, JC had a rebound every 15 seconds.
20 seconds, 23 seconds, 16 seconds, 15 seconds????? What kind of math are you using?
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:53 PM
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JC improved throughout the year. His development will be tied to AG and the rest of his staff. I hope for a Grad Transfer to help out, but I would love to JC turn into a guy that can consistently run the offense. Doesn't need to be Scoochie...just needs to run the offense.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:54 PM
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I guess when London and John were in the game, no one else has ever taken a shot.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:56 PM
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I think I took the inverse of the fraction. . .
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by momszer View Post
I guess when London and John were in the game, no one else has ever taken a shot.
Not only that, but those two have to be 1st and 2nd in NCAA history in FG attempts and rebounds per game.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:01 PM
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Funny you bring this up. I always used LW as my crosby comparison. He's as out of control as LW was as an underclassman without the tenacious defense.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09 View Post
Funny you bring this up. I always used LW as my crosby comparison. He's as out of control as LW was as an underclassman without the tenacious defense.
In conclusion, if Crosby develops this off-season we could be getting London Warren 2.0 without the defense? I'm salivating at the thought of this.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:13 PM
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So JC=LW, plus a little shooting, minus a little defense?

I'd take that. Hope you're right. And hoping fot an absolute PG stud in the next class (and then another in the next after that).
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09 View Post
Funny you bring this up. I always used LW as my crosby comparison. He's as out of control as LW was as an underclassman without the tenacious defense.
While JC clearly needs to improve on his decision making, they're really quite different. JC shot 48% from 3 and LW couldn't throw it in the ocean from 5'. I remember teams sagging off LW so much they almost under the basket defending him. If JC can get under control and slow down a bit, he could have a decent season.
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
So JC=LW, plus a little shooting, minus a little defense?

I'd take that. Hope you're right. And hoping fot an absolute PG stud in the next class (and then another in the next after that).
Well at least Sheg got the general point I was trying to make, though I failed to operate a keyboard and logic in the process.

I can't say that's exactly what will happen of course, but, it's not impossible to imagine it might turn out like that. Not quite the defender but a good bit better at offense. If the A/TO ratio reflects LW's change in control from sophomore to junior season we might be pretty happy with JC this year and next.

Now, he's got to do it on the floor.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Browns View Post
In conclusion, if Crosby develops this off-season we could be getting London Warren 2.0 without the defense? I'm salivating at the thought of this.
Yes and without the point guard instincts too.

LW was a great passer and knew how to run the offense even without the offensive skills.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Yes and without the point guard instincts too.

LW was a great passer and knew how to run the offense as a junior even without the offensive skills.
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Adjusted your post.

LW was nothing but a hot mess as a freshman and sophomore.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:16 AM
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Good post Gazoo. Like LW it's certainly possible JC makes huge strides.

Even based on JCs small sample size, he is a much better 3 pt shooter. You at least need to guard him out there. Did not need to guard LW beyond the arc.

JC isn't as quick, but he is still VERY quick. He's also built like a strong safety. No reason he can't be a very good defender.

The one thing currently missing from next year's team is a solid plan B (or plan A with JC as plan B). Lowery was a good plan B for LW. Once we get that guy I think everyone will relax a little.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Wallage View Post
Good post Gazoo. Like LW it's certainly possible JC makes huge strides.

Even based on JCs small sample size, he is a much better 3 pt shooter. You at least need to guard him out there. Did not need to guard LW beyond the arc.

JC isn't as quick, but he is still VERY quick. He's also built like a strong safety. No reason he can't be a very good defender.

The one thing currently missing from next year's team is a solid plan B (or plan A with JC as plan B). Lowery was a good plan B for LW. Once we get that guy I think everyone will relax a little.
Absolutely. What people are fearing is JC going from his 8-10 mpg all the way to 28-30 mpg within a year (Personally, I believe he makes a drastic improvement). While he may never become good enough to garner that many minutes he'll certainly get to the point where he can log 16-18 pretty productive mpg, thus, needing that Plan A or B..
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