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  #101  
Old 11-17-2018, 11:24 AM
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Real potential for a massacre today. Michigan (the team that just pounded Villanova) is up against the George Washington Dumpster Fires. Either GW bands together and keeps the score respectable, or the final margin could equal an IQ score.
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  #102  
Old 11-17-2018, 02:16 PM
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Presbyterian keeping it close with Marquette in the second half
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  #103  
Old 11-17-2018, 02:43 PM
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Go Blue! Way to beat up on GW!
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  #104  
Old 11-17-2018, 08:27 PM
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How bout Furman over Villanova in OT!
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  #105  
Old 11-17-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
How bout Furman over Villanova in OT!
It appears the Big East is way down this year. Looking forward to see how the Flyers handle Butler.
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  #106  
Old 11-17-2018, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
It appears the Big East is way down this year. Looking forward to see how the Flyers handle Butler.
SLU handled The Hall in NJ tonight, in a close one. That, plus Furman’s takedown of ‘Nova earlier today indicates some chinks in the BE armor. Let’s hope our FlyGuyz can put another dent in it on Wednesday.
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  #107  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:52 PM
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BG’s USF team is up 3 on GT with 6 min left in the game. They were up 7 just a minute ago.
BG still up 3 with 13s left in the game. GT’s ball after the TO
Now tied with 4.9s
OT

SMH

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  #108  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:22 PM
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I can't find the USF v GT game even listed on ESPN. What's the score now?
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  #109  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:26 PM
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It was Georgetown they were playing, and lost.
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  #110  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
BG’s USF team is up 3 on GT with 6 min left in the game. They were up 7 just a minute ago.
BG still up 3 with 13s left in the game. GT’s ball after the TO
Now tied with 4.9s
OT

SMH
God bless BG, but he is the Marvin Lewis of College Basketball coaches. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if his postgame presser included the phrase “We need to get better at what we do.”
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  #111  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:53 PM
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St. Joe’s trailing WVU at the half 49-51
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  #112  
Old 11-18-2018, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
St. Joe’s trailing WVU at the half 49-51
Holy crap! 60-59 14:30 left in the game. That’s a lot of points.
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  #113  
Old 11-18-2018, 06:50 PM
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Another incredibly bad day for the conference:0-3 so far with Fordham losing at home to a woeful Columbia squad. Davidson in a dogfight with mighty Northeastern.
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  #114  
Old 11-18-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
It appears the Big East is way down this year. Looking forward to see how the Flyers handle Butler.
Agree on looking forward to seeing how the Flyers handle Butler, but I hope the rest of your post is sarcasm. Big East is #4 RPI with a current record of 23-7 out of conference. Numbers the A-10 would kill for at this point.
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  #115  
Old 11-18-2018, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Davidson in a dogfight with mighty Northeastern.
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Technically it’s Cats vs. Dogs, and it’s not exactly a dog fight either. The cats are winning 58-41 with a little more than 9 min left.
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  #116  
Old 11-18-2018, 07:55 PM
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I fully expect our team to beat Butler. They aren't that scary this year...
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  #117  
Old 11-18-2018, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Another incredibly bad day for the conference:0-3 so far with Fordham losing at home to a woeful Columbia squad. Davidson in a dogfight with mighty Northeastern.
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Fordham won, so did davidson
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  #118  
Old 11-18-2018, 09:08 PM
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Sometimes folks are so eager to trash things they don't get their facts straight, like who actually won a game.
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  #119  
Old 11-18-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Agree on looking forward to seeing how the Flyers handle Butler, but I hope the rest of your post is sarcasm. Big East is #4 RPI with a current record of 23-7 out of conference. Numbers the A-10 would kill for at this point.
The BE appears to be 26-10, but Nova, X, and Seton Hall all seem to be performing at a much lower level than last year. We will see about Butler. I am not convinced of Georgetown either.
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  #120  
Old 11-19-2018, 10:26 AM
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11/16-11/18

Flyer foes
Tulsa 82 v. Cal Baptist 79
Ga Southern 80 v. Fla. Atlantic 70
#4 Virginia 97 v. Coppin St. 40
Butler 83 v. Ole Miss 76
#17 Miss. St. 79 v. Long Beach St. 51
#24 Marquette 74 v. Presbyterian 55
W. Michigan 99 v. Aquinas College 52
Wright St. 89 v. N. Florida 72
Ga. Southern 88 v. Pepperdine 78
Ga. Southern 80 v. Montana 77

Georgia Southern wins the Bahamas Showcase title.

A10
UCF 77 v. St. Joe's 57
Fordham 83 v. FIU 77
Rhode Island 76 v. Harvard 74
Richmond 78 v. IUPUI 70
Howard 68 @ UMass 63
#23 Purdue 79 v. Davidson 58
Duquesne 69 v. Radford 64
#18 Michigan 84 v GW 61
Fordham 67 v. Youngstown St. 61
Drexel 89 v. LaSalle 84
Geo. Mason 69 v. Southern 65
SLU 66 @ Seton Hall 64
W. Virginia 97 v. St. Joe's 90
S. Carolina 90 v. GW 55
Fordham 70 v. Columbia 69
Davidson 71 v. Northeastern 59

Others
Loyola Marymount 65 v. Georgetown 52
Furman 76 @ #8 Villanova 68 (OT)
Georgetown 76 v. USF 73 (OT)
Arkansas 73 v. Indiana 72
Ohio St. 89 v. S. Car. St. 61
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  #121  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
The BE appears to be 26-10, but Nova, X, and Seton Hall all seem to be performing at a much lower level than last year. We will see about Butler. I am not convinced of Georgetown either.
I was going off the RPI link at the top of this page, and the record I posted was what it had listed at the time of my posting. The 3-3 record by the Big East since my post, that you corrected, was good enough to elevate the Big East from #4 conference to #3, as of 11/19/2018 @ 11:16 AM
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  #122  
Old 11-19-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I was going off the RPI link at the top of this page, and the record I posted was what it had listed at the time of my posting. The 3-3 record by the Big East since my post, that you corrected, was good enough to elevate the Big East from #4 conference to #3, as of 11/19/2018 @ 11:16 AM
That is amazing given the losses that Nova has suffered. I think we will have a better view of things once the tournaments unfold. The BE seems to have some bottom-dwellers just like the A-10. I am seeing a whole lot of parity around the country this year.
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  #123  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:38 PM
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So I just flipped on the TV for a little background noise as I work and discover that future opponent Auburn just tipped off from Maui against the Norwood Gangstas.
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  #124  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
That is amazing given the losses that Nova has suffered. I think we will have a better view of things once the tournaments unfold. The BE seems to have some bottom-dwellers just like the A-10. I am seeing a whole lot of parity around the country this year.
Nova helped their strength of schedule by losing to MI. It does not matter how many points they lost by. Secondly, the RPI or anything else has very little meaning after 3 or 4 games, or even 8 games. UD is #223 and is 3-0. Do thinks we are worse than 222 teams. Cuse is #222. No meaning.
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  #125  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
with NET, RPI is generally useless (always been useless but used by committee in past so up to now has been useless but important). Advanced metrics are key now, kenpom has A-10 #9 conference behind P-5, BE, AAC, and WCC (Gonzaga, St. Mary's, etc.). Barely ahead of Mountain West and Missouri Valley.
The kenpom stats on individual d1 head coaches and their statistical histories are very interesting, as are the home court advantage stats.

Archie Miller used to be consumed by/mesmerized with kenpom.com...he says that he still is a kenpom guy.


http://sportswire.usatoday.com/2014/...ton-analytics/


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...llzW-a&ampcf=1

Last edited by ud2; 11-19-2018 at 02:57 PM..
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  #126  
Old 11-19-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The kenpom stats on individual d1 head coaches and their statistical histories are very interesting, as are the home court advantage stats.

Archie Miller used to be consumed by/mesmerized with kenpom.com...he says that he still is a kenpom guy.


http://sportswire.usatoday.com/2014/...ton-analytics/


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...llzW-a&ampcf=1
I can see how Archie was a kenpom guy and I can see how other coaches would be also. I am a numbers guy. I like to analyze things through the numbers. I believe in analytics and would use them extensively in my decision making process if I was a head coach. I believe those numbers can give me a feel for how I compare against the competition and how I should play them. That said, I no way support much of the analytical tools for deciding who gets in the NCAA tournament and who does not. Games are not played on paper or via computers. Actual results matter.
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  #127  
Old 11-19-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I can see how Archie was a kenpom guy and I can see how other coaches would be also. I am a numbers guy. I like to analyze things through the numbers. I believe in analytics and would use them extensively in my decision making process if I was a head coach. I believe those numbers can give me a feel for how I compare against the competition and how I should play them. That said, I no way support much of the analytical tools for deciding who gets in the NCAA tournament and who does not. Games are not played on paper or via computers. Actual results matter.

So to play devil's advocate, if you were coaching you would say "statistically, on average, here's how we should play this team to maximize our chances of winning most often" but if the numbers say "statistically, on average, here are the teams that deserve in the tournament because they are most often the best teams" you would consider that invalid. Is that right?

Is it fair to say you believe the numbers when you want to but when you don't like the answer you don't believe the numbers anymore?
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:32 PM
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Some teams win ugly, but they win. Some teams play well, but they lose. I want to see teams that win, not lose pretty, no matter what the stats say. But I would have no problem using stats to give me a better chance to win.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
So I just flipped on the TV for a little background noise as I work and discover that future opponent Auburn just tipped off from Maui against the Norwood Gangstas.
Looks like Tigers > Gangstas. Auburn 88, _avier 79
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  #130  
Old 11-19-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
So to play devil's advocate, if you were coaching you would say "statistically, on average, here's how we should play this team to maximize our chances of winning most often" but if the numbers say "statistically, on average, here are the teams that deserve in the tournament because they are most often the best teams" you would consider that invalid. Is that right?

Is it fair to say you believe the numbers when you want to but when you don't like the answer you don't believe the numbers anymore?
That is not what I am saying at all. The numbers help me decide things like when to foul when you are up 3 with seconds to go but if you foul and the player makes the first and misses on purpose and this team rebounds the ball and shoots a 3 to win, I don't count that as a win because statistically I should have won. Losing a close game when the statistics say you outplayed the other should not count as a win.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Some teams win ugly, but they win. Some teams play well, but they lose. I want to see teams that win, not lose pretty, no matter what the stats say. But I would have no problem using stats to give me a better chance to win.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Looks like Tigers > Gangstas. Auburn 88, _avier 79
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I caught the end of the 2nd half and ot...neither team looked great IMO...X's offense looked disjointed as did Auburn's...Auburn has some big, tall, bulky dudes inside...loss #2 for X.

Last edited by ud2; 11-20-2018 at 12:49 AM..
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Old 11-20-2018, 07:13 AM
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11/20

Flyer foes
Cincinnati 78 v. W. Michigan 52
Rider 87 v. Coppin St. 67
Detroit 91 v. Loyola (MD) 63
Tulsa 88 v. Little Rock 78
Arizona St. 72 v. #15 Miss. St. 67
#17 UCLA 80 v. Presbyterian 65
#8 Auburn 88 v. Xavier 79 (OT)

A10
Georgia St. 75 v. St. Bona 65
Loyola-Chi 82 v. Richmond 66
UMass 92 v. Ark-Pine Bluff 60
VCU 57 v. Temple 51

Others
Charlotte 42 v. Longwood 39 - This game was 19-15 at half.
Rutgers 63 v. E. Michigan 36 - This game was 31-4 at half.
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  #134  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post

Rutgers 63 v. E. Michigan 36 - This game was 31-4 at half.
31-4??? I had to look this up...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=401082594


3/17 on FTs? And EMU was the Pre-Season #1 pick for the MAC-West. Oh my.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
31-4??? I had to look this up...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=401082594


3/17 on FTs? And EMU was the Pre-Season #1 pick for the MAC-West. Oh my.
so they battled to a 32-32 tie 2nd half!
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
31-4??? I had to look this up...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=401082594


3/17 on FTs? And EMU was the Pre-Season #1 pick for the MAC-West. Oh my.
Eastern Michigan tied the Division-I record for fewest points in a half during the shot clock era Monday night when it went to the locker room trailing host Rutgers by a score of 31-4.

Let’s take a quick look at all the amazing facts from this historic performance.

—Eastern Michigan tied a record which had been previously set in 2013 when Northern Illinois scored four points in the first half of a game ... against Eastern Michigan.

—That game between Northern Illinois and Eastern Michigan was played on Jan. 26, 2013. Embarrassingly, NIU’s 4-point first half output broke the previous record for fewest points in a half ... which had been set by the Huskies themselves just 56 days earlier when they scored five points in a half against Dayton.

2 degrees of separation.
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  #137  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:41 AM
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#8 Auburn takes on #1 Duke tonight at 8 on ESPN.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
That is not what I am saying at all. The numbers help me decide things like when to foul when you are up 3 with seconds to go but if you foul and the player makes the first and misses on purpose and this team rebounds the ball and shoots a 3 to win, I don't count that as a win because statistically I should have won. Losing a close game when the statistics say you outplayed the other should not count as a win.
So, across an entire season, don't "the numbers help you decide" who the best teams are? (This assumes the point of the tournament is to select the best teams, which may not be your basis for selection.)

In your scenario, you seem to be clearly painting a picture that the better team lost. It's unlikely that happened 25 times in a season, so across a large enough sample size the numbers should point you to the better teams. But you would instead select worse teams for the tournament that under-played their opponents and won on flukes? Or do we use the eye test when the stats fail to show us the expected answer?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but, it seems like you either trust the metrics or you don't. Or, you trust a few of them but not others, which might be fair but would require a lot longer discussion than "sometimes yes and other times no" because there would need to be case-by-case reasons why you don't trust those metrics.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
So, across an entire season, don't "the numbers help you decide" who the best teams are? (This assumes the point of the tournament is to select the best teams, which may not be your basis for selection.)

In your scenario, you seem to be clearly painting a picture that the better team lost. It's unlikely that happened 25 times in a season, so across a large enough sample size the numbers should point you to the better teams. But you would instead select worse teams for the tournament that under-played their opponents and won on flukes? Or do we use the eye test when the stats fail to show us the expected answer?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but, it seems like you either trust the metrics or you don't. Or, you trust a few of them but not others, which might be fair but would require a lot longer discussion than "sometimes yes and other times no" because there would need to be case-by-case reasons why you don't trust those metrics.
I would probably go along with you if everyone in the pool played everyone an equal number of times. Without that, I don't have enough trust in that type of system to differentiate between teams playing and therefore being evaluated on different competition. Ultimately, it is probably the same problem that has always existed - do the metrics adequately take into account the disparity between teams that have not had comparable schedules?
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
0-2 George Mason was picked to finish 4th in the preseason poll.
polls schmolls, I say again
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I would probably go along with you if everyone in the pool played everyone an equal number of times. Without that, I don't have enough trust in that type of system to differentiate between teams playing and therefore being evaluated on different competition. Ultimately, it is probably the same problem that has always existed - do the metrics adequately take into account the disparity between teams that have not had comparable schedules?

Fair enough. But by the same logic: how do you decide whether or not to foul or play straight up defense in your original example? You could use the stats to say what has worked on average over history, but don't you really want to know what works best against that exact team in that exact scenario? Since it probably doesn't happen more than, at most, 3x per season to any given team, you can't fairly compare how that exact opponent has reacted to the situation. And it probably never happened that season against a team with exactly your team's makeup (rebounding capabilities, size advantage, opponent foul-out situation, injuries to either side, referee combination and type of game being called by the refs, likelihood to win in overtime), so how would you apply the "numbers" in a single draw against a unique set of circumstances?

If everyone in the pool has to play an equal number of times for it to work, doesn't each situation have to be drawn from an situationally-equal pool to get real results? And if not, at what "n" does every team NOT need to play every other team in order for the numbers to work?
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Fair enough. But by the same logic: how do you decide whether or not to foul or play straight up defense in your original example? You could use the stats to say what has worked on average over history, but don't you really want to know what works best against that exact team in that exact scenario? Since it probably doesn't happen more than, at most, 3x per season to any given team, you can't fairly compare how that exact opponent has reacted to the situation. And it probably never happened that season against a team with exactly your team's makeup (rebounding capabilities, size advantage, opponent foul-out situation, injuries to either side, referee combination and type of game being called by the refs, likelihood to win in overtime), so how would you apply the "numbers" in a single draw against a unique set of circumstances?

If everyone in the pool has to play an equal number of times for it to work, doesn't each situation have to be drawn from an situationally-equal pool to get real results? And if not, at what "n" does every team NOT need to play every other team in order for the numbers to work?
I am just using available statistics/analytics to make decisions and to see how my team is improving or comparing them to other teams. It sounds like you are advocating that at some point just let the numbers take over and declare a winner without actually playing the game.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:17 PM
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The NCAA could eliminate all of this controversy if they just came out and said

64 teams plus first 4
32 automatic bids
32 open spots
29 reserved for P5+NBE
3 random non-P5 to show they are open to all conferences
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
The NCAA could eliminate all of this controversy if they just came out and said

64 teams plus first 4
32 automatic bids
32 open spots
29 reserved for P5+NBE
3 random non-P5 to show they are open to all conferences
minor correction 30 reserved for P5+NBE+Gonzaga...Zags have built up enough cred that they'd have to go in the toilet for 5+ years to not be selected
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:40 PM
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Excuse this interruption for a brief observation: Bill Walton makes watching the Maui tournament intolerable.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Excuse this interruption for a brief observation: Bill Walton makes watching the Maui tournament intolerable.
He is incredibly annoying and unlistenable. Talks non-stop about everything except the game that is being played. I’ve had enough and just turned off the TV.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I am just using available statistics/analytics to make decisions and to see how my team is improving or comparing them to other teams. It sounds like you are advocating that at some point just let the numbers take over and declare a winner without actually playing the game.

Honestly, I don't know what I'm advocating. Just playing devil's advocate. I find that many people will live-and-die by the advanced stats to a degree that's not warranted.

I think it comes down to the idea that you either really believe the numbers, or you don't really believe the numbers. And, you can "not really believe the numbers" but still find them valuable as an indicator of a trend without thinking of them as exact enough to indicate a definitive answer (wide error term).
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:33 PM
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Anyone watching X vs SDSU?
SDSU was down 32-16 but came on strong to end the half on a 21-8 run and make a game of it. Halftime score is 40-37.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
He is incredibly annoying and unlistenable. Talks non-stop about everything except the game that is being played. I’ve had enough and just turned off the TV.
He’s all of those things and more. And if anyone saw that insipid bit where he’s massaging Jay Bilas ... well, let’s just say Bilas should sue him for sexual assault.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Honestly, I don't know what I'm advocating. Just playing devil's advocate. I find that many people will live-and-die by the advanced stats to a degree that's not warranted.

I think it comes down to the idea that you either really believe the numbers, or you don't really believe the numbers. And, you can "not really believe the numbers" but still find them valuable as an indicator of a trend without thinking of them as exact enough to indicate a definitive answer (wide error term).
Due to the dynamics and the fluid play of the game of BB you can't use statistics like you do in playing the game of Baseball.

Now you can use some statistical approaches such as a player always goes to his right or uses his left hand to slip thru 2 defenders or takes a dribble before a jump shot but those are simple metrics if you will.

Those metrics are hi or low values not the subtle 65% of the time this happens or 35% of the time the player uses a head fake to the right before taking his step to the left.

I think that involves too much thinking in a fast paced game of basketball.

MHO
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  #151  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Honestly, I don't know what I'm advocating. Just playing devil's advocate. I find that many people will live-and-die by the advanced stats to a degree that's not warranted.

I think it comes down to the idea that you either really believe the numbers, or you don't really believe the numbers. And, you can "not really believe the numbers" but still find them valuable as an indicator of a trend without thinking of them as exact enough to indicate a definitive answer (wide error term).
Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
Anyone watching X vs SDSU?
SDSU was down 32-16 but came on strong to end the half on a 21-8 run and make a game of it. Halftime score is 40-37.
I give up on the analytics argument. SDSU up 64-55 over X 4:31 to go.
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Old 11-20-2018, 04:43 PM
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SDSU Over X 79 - 74
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  #153  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
SDSU Over X 79 - 74
Puts X in the “Miss Congeniality” bracket against Illinois, in the battle for 7th place. In all fairness, 3 of the top 8 teams in the current AP poll are in that tournament. However, also in all fairness, 5 of the teams in that tourney aren’t even in the Top 25. A big ranking gap between the 3rd and 4th rated teams in that soirée.
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  #154  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:47 AM
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Is it just me, or does it seem like the Big East has lost every single meaningful game so far this year. I haven't looked at each team, but I know they did terrible in the Gavin games vs the Big 10, Nova has dropped a couple, X has lost both out in Maui so far.... I hope that trend extends thru tonight, then Butler at least can win the rest
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  #155  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Is it just me, or does it seem like the Big East has lost every single meaningful game so far this year. I haven't looked at each team, but I know they did terrible in the Gavin games vs the Big 10, Nova has dropped a couple, X has lost both out in Maui so far.... I hope that trend extends thru tonight, then Butler at least can win the rest
St Johns beat VCU last night in OT. VCU got hosed 3 times down the stretch. Most significantly was when taking the last shot at the buzzer. St Johns fouled but the ref did not call it. VCU should have been shooting 3 FTs.
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  #156  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
St Johns beat VCU last night in OT. VCU got hosed 3 times down the stretch. Most significantly was when taking the last shot at the buzzer. St Johns fouled but the ref did not call it. VCU should have been shooting 3 FTs.
Agreed on VCU being hosed. And after watching them I don't see them being a bottom half A10 team. I think they will be battling for a top four spot this year....as I believe we will be.
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  #157  
Old 11-21-2018, 02:33 PM
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St. Louis lost a tough one to Pitt 75-73.

They had a chance to tie it with about 20 ticks left and Pitt fouled French as soon as he got the ball in the post. He air balled his FT and lost the game.

I hope our coaching staff took note. This guy can’t shoot free throws but he’s a load inside.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Is it just me, or does it seem like the Big East has lost every single meaningful game so far this year. I haven't looked at each team, but I know they did terrible in the Gavin games vs the Big 10, Nova has dropped a couple, X has lost both out in Maui so far.... I hope that trend extends thru tonight, then Butler at least can win the rest
That's what I stated...I don't see how the BE is the third-rated conference. After beating some teams with hyphens, they have been on a losing streak.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:58 PM
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#TravisFord... He's such a moron lol
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  #160  
Old 11-21-2018, 03:30 PM
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Any DI ballplayer that can't shoot freethrows and air balls one with the game on the line should have to pay for their books next semester.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:53 PM
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Preseason favorite just lost to the worst team in the ACC.

A10 is just putrid this year
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:29 PM
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St Louis has talent but I think you can zone them and dare them to beat you shooting
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:55 PM
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Let's our guys, who scrimmaged Pitt, know they can play with St Louis.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:53 PM
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Not happy here:
https://butlerhoops.com/forum/index....21.2373/page-9
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
That's what I stated...I don't see how the BE is the third-rated conference. After beating some teams with hyphens, they have been on a losing streak.
Add 1 more to that losing streak. That was sweet!
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
St Louis has talent but I think you can zone them and dare them to beat you shooting
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Yeah, if teams can’t shoot, then zoning them (at least as a change of pace) is a good strategy.
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Any DI ballplayer that can't shoot freethrows and air balls one with the game on the line should have to pay for their books next semester.
Dude is 2-11 from the line this season. Criminy, I’ve never played organized ball, and I could hit 50%!
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:43 AM
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Had to watch some of the X and Illini game after UD. They looked like tall HS teams out there. Wish we could have us some X this year!
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Had to watch some of the X and Illini game after UD. They looked like tall HS teams out there. Wish we could have us some X this year!
Depending on how the season unfolds, we might get our chance...in March.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Depending on how the season unfolds, we might get our chance...in March.
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I have mixed emotions about this scenario.
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Old 11-22-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Depending on how the season unfolds, we might get our chance...in March.
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I hope we do better than the CBI.
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  #172  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:16 AM
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Suddenly St Joe's, who looked like they might be decent, goes to 3-3 with a loss to a not very good William & Mary.

VCU, Davidson, and St. L go to 5-1 with pedestrian wins. GW finally wins one, while George Mason and RI with losses continue to struggle.
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  #173  
Old 11-25-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Suddenly St Joe's, who looked like they might be decent, goes to 3-3 with a loss to a not very good William & Mary.

VCU, Davidson, and St. L go to 5-1 with pedestrian wins. GW finally wins one, while George Mason and RI with losses continue to struggle.
URI...Stony Brook at URI...bad loss...SB hc Jeff Boals says hi: former OU Bobcat player and Buckeyes assistant under Matta.

Last edited by ud2; 11-25-2018 at 03:08 PM..
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  #174  
Old 11-26-2018, 01:32 PM
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This Week's Flyer Top 20

1. Virginia 6-0
2. Auburn 4-1
3. Butler 5-1
4. Mississippi St 4-1
5. Oklahoma 5-1
6. Davidson 5-1
7. Dayton 4-2
8. VCU 5-1
9. St Joseph's 3-3
10. Georgia Southern 4-0
11. St Louis 5-1
12. Rhode Island 2-2
13. UMASS 4-3
14. Duquesne 4-1
15. Tulsa 4-2
16. Western Michigan 3-3
17. Detroit Mercy 3-3
18. North Florida 1-4
19. George Mason 2-5
20. St Bonaventure 1-5
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  #175  
Old 11-27-2018, 10:35 PM
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AM getting schooled at Duke, Blue Devils up 20+ at the half. BIG having a rough night so far.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:27 PM
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I watched the end of NC State at Wisconsin...bad critical call on a charge on NCSU at the end...they showed a clip of the Wisconsin player that drew the charge, he drew 5 charges last night, 3 of which looked like blocks to me...bad officiating IMO...had the 3 been called blocks, as they should have been, maybe the other 2 don't even happen as he might have been on the bench with foul trouble or decided to back off with that bogus charge-drawing defensive maneuver.

He repeatedly steps into the path of the offensive player, it's bogus d IMO.
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I watched the end of NC State at Wisconsin...bad critical call on a charge on NCSU at the end...they showed a clip of the Wisconsin player that drew the charge, he drew 5 charges last night, 3 of which looked like blocks to me...bad officiating IMO...had the 3 been called blocks, as they should have been, maybe the other 2 don't even happen as he might have been on the bench with foul trouble or decided to back off with that bogus charge-drawing defensive maneuver.

He repeatedly steps into the path of the offensive player, it's bogus d IMO.
there's a whole highlight clip of him on twitter drawing charges
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  #178  
Old 11-28-2018, 03:26 PM
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Lot of that going on this year.... making the refs look like fools.... just jump in front of the guy and fall down. Get the call 8 of 10 times..... It all stems back to the BS clarification about contact is allowed if you are in legal guarding position.... a clearly subjective analysis..... Now you can call (or not call) anything and everything.
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  #179  
Old 11-28-2018, 03:48 PM
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https://twitter.com/marchmadness/sta...34750406500352

The NCAA's march madness account put out the charge compilation clip
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  #180  
Old 11-28-2018, 04:38 PM
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I just texted my cousin the other night while watching a game (I forget which one) and said the NCAA has a charge problem...THEY CALL TOO MANY!!! As someone else just said it seems like any time there is body contact on the floor it is 8 out of 10 times called a charge.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/sta...34750406500352

The NCAA's march madness account put out the charge compilation clip
Out of those four in the clip I say 2 and 2.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/sta...34750406500352

The NCAA's march madness account put out the charge compilation clip
All 3 of those were no doubt charges. FWIW, the defender can be moving as long as he's in a legal defensive position. Charge 1 looked questionable to the naked, untrained eye but isn't even close to being a block since he (feet/shoulders) was in front of the ball handler. Charge 2 the offensive player throws out an elbow...duh!...no explanation needed...and Charge 3 the defender was clearly in front of the offensive player who initiated contact with his shoulder. It looked questionable because the contact was not body-to-body but shoulder-to-shoulder, but the defender was planted and the offensive player ran into him. (I would have swallowed my whistle on that one, but if a call had to be made, it would no doubt be a charge).

FWIW2, I run into wayyyyy to many 'refs' before and after games who still think it's 1988. The game has evolved since then and so have the rules. I did a varsity scrimmage last week and the freshman coach - a veteran of many, many years - actually pulled me aside in order to nitpick the "3-second" rule. I've known this guy off the court for a long time so I explained everything to him as nicely as I could, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking "are you serious? are we really talking about how, when and why to call 3-seconds?...how and why are you a coach??"

UGH!

FWIW3, I just watched and rewatched the video again (after reading the ignorant comments section underneath) and am more depressed about the lack of institution knowledge shown by supposed fans of basketball that I was 10 min ago. Good Rollo people...the internet is a great tool to not only surf porn and get the weather forecast, but it can also be used to learn about things like politics, global cooling and - heaven forbid - basketball rules.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Out of those four in the clip I say 2 and 2.
But there's only 3...
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
But there's only 3...
When I watch it there are four.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/sta...34750406500352

The NCAA's march madness account put out the charge compilation clip
And we thought the NET was a joke, those charges are bigger jokes.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
All 3 of those were no doubt charges. FWIW, the defender can be moving as long as he's in a legal defensive position. Charge 1 looked questionable to the naked, untrained eye but isn't even close to being a block since he (feet/shoulders) was in front of the ball handler. Charge 2 the offensive player throws out an elbow...duh!...no explanation needed...and Charge 3 the defender was clearly in front of the offensive player who initiated contact with his shoulder. It looked questionable because the contact was not body-to-body but shoulder-to-shoulder, but the defender was planted and the offensive player ran into him. (I would have swallowed my whistle on that one, but if a call had to be made, it would no doubt be a charge).
Thank God your a better referee than you are mathematician, as I count 4 and not 3! Pretty sure based on your commentary above, you missed the 4th charge video, which in my opinion falls under the same explanation as charge #1. Sadly, at least at the high school, AAU levels and below, 9 referees out of 10 would have called #1 a block as well as #4. Congrats for being the 1 who would have made the right call. It's a shame I rarely saw you on the court, my blood pressure may have been a bit lower when coaching.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:49 PM
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How would anyone think any of those were blocking fouls. They all seemed like obvious charges to me.
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  #188  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
When I watch it there are four.
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Thank God your a better referee than you are mathematician, as I count 4 and not 3!
It must be my secret government server that I keep in under my royal commode that is the problem, because is can't be me!

Regardless, I watched the video for the 352nd time and today all 4 (!!!!!) charges were shown!

And all 4 were obvious charges. In all seriousness, this isn't 1988. The Rules you blue hairs grew up (not) understanding have changed. Defenders can move...and if their hips and shoulders are ahead of the ball handler, they are in a legal guarding position. I sit thru more (re)training sessions every year than you can imagine and the "Blarge" (block/charge) is ALWAYS a topic (as is 'traveling').

The videos we watch and discuss are 100X more difficult to assess than those in this snippet. Anyway...believe what you want about Blarges and/or Income Taxes...but if your royal CPA says you owe come April 2019, please don't be a stubbornly ridiculous know-it-all and just pay what they say. After all, the IRS Tax laws of today aren't what they were in '88 either.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It must be my secret government server that I keep in under my royal commode that is the problem, because is can't be me!

Regardless, I watched the video for the 352nd time and today all 4 (!!!!!) charges were shown!

And all 4 were obvious charges. In all seriousness, this isn't 1988. The Rules you blue hairs grew up (not) understanding have changed. Defenders can move...and if their hips and shoulders are ahead of the ball handler, they are in a legal guarding position. I sit thru more (re)training sessions every year than you can imagine and the "Blarge" (block/charge) is ALWAYS a topic (as is 'traveling').

The videos we watch and discuss are 100X more difficult to assess than those in this snippet. Anyway...believe what you want about Blarges and/or Income Taxes...but if your royal CPA says you owe come April 2019, please don't be a stubbornly ridiculous know-it-all and just pay what they say. After all, the IRS Tax laws of today aren't what they were in '88 either.
The 3rd one is a BS call. #1, 2, and 4 are clear and obvious offensive fouls, heck the ball handler raised his elbow head-high he pushed off so badly. But when a guy jumps in the air and contact is made with a defender, it doth not a foul make.

Remember when you were a kid and your buddy would be walking in front of you, and just to screw around he would randomly stop walking and make you run into him? The teacher blames the kid who stops, every time.

If a defender is allowed to stop moving any time he wants like a kids game, then any offensive player in a full run makes contact, and the whistle has to blow indicating the offensive player was somehow in the wrong, it's time for me to start watching soccer.

As you said in your first post: it's a no-call. You chose to fall over kid, you weren't knocked over, now choose to pick your arse up and run to the other end of the court.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:50 AM
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In order for it to be a charge, a defender must be set before the offensive player becomes airborn. In case #3 the defender is set and the contact is illegal, albeit petty. Regardless, it’s either a charge or a no-call. I would vote no-call, but you and I know that if it were a UD player getting knocked over, it’s an obvious charge!
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
In case #3 the defender is set
Can you define "set"? I think this boggles my mind from time to time. Is it just feet planted even if body is still moving over? Is it completely vertical for a single second? Can feet be further than shoulders apart? Before or after offense is in air?

In #3, there are like 5 frames that show his hips and shoulders in front of the defender. Also, his left hand is not straight up, but out towards the offensive player and appears to be where contact was made as the offensive player actually went around the defender.

Jordan Davis pulled this maneuver at the Arena this year. The defender slid in front of him, and he moved around him with some slight contact. No call made.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:42 AM
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Sir Figgie, your questions are brilliant and darn near impossible to answer without a PhD dissertation. “Set” is a concept, not a physical state. You can be ‘set’ and then jump and still be in a legal defensive position. Your feet cannot be spread wider than your body but that’s subjective...you can’t extend your arms to make yourself wider but that, too, is a judgement call. And all this information has to be assessed in a split second yet will be b*tched about by the novice refs on chat boards with slo-mon replays for weeks and months afterwards!

But like I said, in the video we’re discussing, each call is correct or justifiable...unless it’s a _avier player with the ball or UD Flyer playing D.
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  #193  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:01 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
And all this information has to be assessed in a split second yet will be b*tched about by the novice refs on chat boards with slo-mon replays for weeks and months afterwards! Posted via Mobile Device
Which means you (ref) will never be 100% correct (impossible to assess it all in a split second)...and neither will they (novices)!
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Which means you (ref) will never be 100% correct (impossible to assess it all in a split second)...and neither will they (novices)!
I miss calls every game I ref, some intentional, others not-so-much...and freely admit it to my partners (who also miss calls), friends, family and the occasional coach. With that said, I also make a hell of a lot less mistakes than anyone in the stands, which makes me the King of the Court!
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  #195  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I miss calls every game I ref, some intentional....
Anyone got the number for OHSAA???
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I also make a hell of a lot less mistakes than anyone in the stands, which makes me the King of the Court!
you and Ted Valentine!
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Anyone got the number for OHSAA???
Yes, but they blocked my number.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Anyone got the number for OHSAA???
I did a varsity girl's game this week...halftime score...25-0. Yes, I swallowed my whistle a few times in the 2nd half. Did a CYO game last night...halftime score...25-2 (it was 2-2 at one point) and 37-2 after the 3rd qtr...Yes, I swallowed my whistle.

And OHSAA supports my display of sportsmanship...and encourages that all officials avoid 'game stoppers' which are calls that are overlooked in order to keep the flow of the game moving. No, I'm not kidding.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:16 PM
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Ken Pom is less a ranking system and more a predictor of outcomes however. Which is a very different thing than the RPI was, or what the NET is professing to be. One rates you based on what you've done, another rates you based on what you can potentially do in games yet to be played.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I miss calls every game I ref, some intentional, others not-so-much...and freely admit it to my partners (who also miss calls), friends, family and the occasional coach. With that said, I also make a hell of a lot less mistakes than anyone in the stands, which makes me the King of the Court!

Eddie Feigner will always be the only King and His Court.

If you remember Eddie you have to be old.
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