UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > UDPRIDE SPORTS FORUMS > Mens Basketball

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:45 PM
flybye flybye is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 423
Thanks: 2
Thanked 310 Times in 149 Posts
flybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these parts
Inside the numbers...and close games

As the staff and Anthony look to build the culture and continue to develop these kids, there are some numbers that directly effect close games and also tell us something about effort. Jalen and Jordan both averaging over 32 min a game have a total of 13 ...count them 13 offensive rebounds this year. Jordan has 5....to put that in perspective Matos has 4. As a combo they have by far the least number of rebounds of any starting guard combo in the league. Josh has 3 count them 3 blocks total this year, thatís 1 more than Cohill and 2 more than Frankie, Obi has 24 so a total of 29 blocks. With Big Steve we counted blocks with Obi, we count dunks. I would suggest better protection at the rim and the guards being more physical would change a close game to the win total.. Last point, we do not have a player averaging 1 steal a game. Jordan is our best and he ranks...35 in the A 10. So on the other side we have 5 guys in double figures and the offense which gets very few second Chance points and Almost nothing off steals has been very efficient. Letís forget next year for the next two weeks and if Josh returns to his numbers from last year and the guards become more aggressive on both sides of the ball we can win the tourney. This team as is can be much better. Effort and desire not talent is what these numbers indicate. The they play too many minutes excuse is nonsense , our worst halfís have been the first and to their credit they have fought back and played there best many times in the second half. As Anthony said, we need collectively for everyone to play hard these next two weeks.
Reply With Quote
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to flybye For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (03-06-2019), Jeff (03-05-2019), Radar (03-05-2019), TommyGola (03-05-2019)
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 03-05-2019, 06:28 PM
UDGutter2's Avatar
UDGutter2 UDGutter2 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coldwater
Posts: 1,007
Thanks: 1,379
Thanked 750 Times in 323 Posts
UDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond reputeUDGutter2 has a reputation beyond repute
To be fair, some of the lack of steals, blocks, and offensive boards is due to lack of aggressiveness to avoid fouls. I believe they are coached to be careful to avoid fouls which leads to taking fewer chances. But yeah, they could be a little more aggressive.
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to UDGutter2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
GoFlyer (03-06-2019), Rick Scaia (03-05-2019), SeasonTicketFan (03-05-2019)
  #3  
Old 03-05-2019, 06:37 PM
Chris R's Avatar
Chris R Chris R is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 10,975
Thanks: 1,149
Thanked 12,264 Times in 3,585 Posts
Chris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond repute
When you're one of the top 3 or 4 shooting teams in the country, you're offensive rebound totals are likely to be anemic in terms of raw numbers. Just not many to go around. So that stat doesnt concern me too much.

I also believe effort is talent.

The lack of a shot blocker behind the back door is a solid concern. Evans of VCU likely doesnt drive that deep on us for his driving shot on Cohill were Big Steve still around and back there intimidating things. Shot blockers block shots, but they also alter shots they never touch or dissuade certain shots from being taken altogether.

Maybe the most pronounced case study of this in Flyer lore was Sean Finn's sophomore season in the A10 Tournament (against SJU?). It was his coming out party. He probably blocked 5-6 shots that game and by the latter part of the second half the opponent was so intimidated by his ability to alter everything in sight they gave up driving into the paint altogether. Every time they saw him lurking back there ready to swat something, they turned around scared.

Shot blocking is an art form. For the most part (my opinion) I think its a skill you either have or you dont. The best shot blockers tend to block most of their shots without leaving their feet -- mostly about positioning and timing. They dont go ball hunting. They let you bring the ball to them.
__________________

C. M. Rieman | Publisher | 937.361.4630 | Get the latest here:

Reply With Quote
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Chris R For This Totally Excellent Post:
Alberto Strasse (03-06-2019), Flyer 86 (03-06-2019), m21eagle45 (03-06-2019), SeasonTicketFan (03-05-2019)
  #4  
Old 03-05-2019, 06:56 PM
flybye flybye is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 423
Thanks: 2
Thanked 310 Times in 149 Posts
flybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these parts
Good points, but if you taped the game, watch it and pay no attention to the ball, watch our guys on close outs and help defense. You will be more angry then ya were Friday nite. Certain players were flat out lazy and gave limited effort. Until they were desparate . As Grant said Friday nite with out using names we need a collective effort. I hear what your saying on shot blocking but the 2 bigs should have more than they have. Effort and want to.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:57 PM
Runnin' Rebel's Avatar
Runnin' Rebel Runnin' Rebel is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 627
Thanks: 1,437
Thanked 555 Times in 184 Posts
Runnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond reputeRunnin' Rebel has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Shot blocking is an art form. For the most part (my opinion) I think its a skill you either have or you dont. The best shot blockers tend to block most of their shots without leaving their feet -- mostly about positioning and timing. They dont go ball hunting. They let you bring the ball to them.
I'm with you on shot blocking being an art form... but the one's who don't leave their feet, already have size too.

STEVE SAYS NO !!!

I've always loved the mid sized guys who have learned how to time the block based on where the ball is going.

I typically think of guys like Chris Wright, Charles Little or Marcus Johnson.

Miksell has had some nicely timed blocks here in A10 play!
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Runnin' Rebel For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (03-05-2019), Flyer 86 (03-06-2019)
  #6  
Old 03-05-2019, 10:07 PM
Jeff Jeff is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: OKC
Posts: 1,430
Thanks: 599
Thanked 714 Times in 389 Posts
Jeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Chris R View Post

I also believe effort is talent. .
Spot on.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-2019, 10:16 PM
SLUFLYER SLUFLYER is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,907
Thanks: 1,296
Thanked 1,054 Times in 523 Posts
SLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond reputeSLUFLYER has a reputation beyond repute
Good shot blockers are typically long. The great ones are disciplined.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-2019, 11:05 PM
Rick Scaia Rick Scaia is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Mythological Land of Dayton, OH
Posts: 183
Thanks: 20
Thanked 234 Times in 72 Posts
Rick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud ofRick Scaia has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
To be fair, some of the lack of steals, blocks, and offensive boards is due to lack of aggressiveness to avoid fouls. I believe they are coached to be careful to avoid fouls which leads to taking fewer chances. But yeah, they could be a little more aggressive.
Seconded.

It's been a few weeks, but as I started tracking the components of Offensive Efficiency and Defensive Efficiency, it did seem like a lot of our strengths and weaknesses amounted to pieces of the same puzzle.

And a big piece was the requirement (starting with Matos' injury, if not from Day One) to commit as few fouls as possible, leading to a more passive defense, with a side order of hustling back to set up said defense rather than crash the O-boards and risk a silly foul.

I don't dispute the numbers: we have fewer steals/blocks/boards than we could, but there's a method to the madness. In addition to maximizing the minutes out of our 6 and a half useful bodies, we also allow a mind-bendingly small number of free throw attempts for opponents relative to the average.

Is there a better way to set all the levers and knobs and dials to get an optimal mix? Maybe. But given what we have to work with this year, I don't think Coach Grant or our players are coming up woefully short.

[And credit to Mikesell, who isn't the most gifted athlete on the floor, but who seems to put himself in position to be the guy who DOES get an odd board/block where you would not expect it.]
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Rick Scaia For This Totally Excellent Post:
UDGutter2 (03-06-2019)
  #9  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:44 AM
flybye flybye is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 423
Thanks: 2
Thanked 310 Times in 149 Posts
flybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these partsflybye is infamous around these parts
The point I am making is effort. The next step for this team is not to take home court for granted . The loss to Rhody was effort..here is a quick stat on the game. Fatts had 6 rebounds...More than Josh and Jordan combined. I think Fatts is 5 9 or so. Watch them tonite, they will play like like their hair is on fire I have no doubt, they just have to learn to play hard as a team every nite. There capable as we have seen from the road record.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to flybye For This Totally Excellent Post:
UDGutter2 (03-06-2019)
  #10  
Old 03-06-2019, 08:01 AM
Don Don is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 120
Thanks: 0
Thanked 85 Times in 38 Posts
Don is a glorious beacon of lightDon is a glorious beacon of lightDon is a glorious beacon of lightDon is a glorious beacon of lightDon is a glorious beacon of lightDon is a glorious beacon of light
Talent/Effort/Desire

No disagreement at all that we badly need an eraser like we had in Big Steve. We've needed that except for Big Steve's games, for a long, long time. Unfortunately rejectors like that aren't available enough to stock every team. While I hope we find one amongst our players-in-waiting, I'd be very happy if we just came up with a rejector that could take care of layups by anyone under 6-5.
What bothers me more is the effort/desire question. How can we still be making the same type of careless/lazy turnovers after 28 games that plagued us (and cost us several games) early in the season. Aren't our guys capable of learning what they can and can't get away with? Aren't our coaches capable of teaching it? Or does it simply take too long for some guys to learn?
The multiple games in which 2nd chance points hurt us badly also raises the effort/desire question. How is it that we keep giving up costly baskets at crunch time because we are outhustled by the opponent? Is it player effort/desire...........or failure to beat it into thier heads by the coaches.......again, after 29 games?
Is the solution on the bench......or the problem?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-06-2019, 08:29 AM
MikeFlyer's Avatar
MikeFlyer MikeFlyer is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 119
Thanks: 290
Thanked 53 Times in 28 Posts
MikeFlyer is just really niceMikeFlyer is just really niceMikeFlyer is just really niceMikeFlyer is just really niceMikeFlyer is just really nice
I think on Big Steves senior night we would have celebrated him already being in the NBA!!
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to MikeFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (03-06-2019)
  #12  
Old 03-06-2019, 08:45 AM
m21eagle45's Avatar
m21eagle45 m21eagle45 is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,715
Thanks: 2,314
Thanked 2,065 Times in 960 Posts
m21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond reputem21eagle45 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by flybye View Post
I hear what your saying on shot blocking but the 2 bigs should have more than they have. Effort and want to.
Josh is 6'7" playing out of position, typically against bigger guys. I do not care what shape you are in, that wears you down. If you are a step slow from banging in the post all night, that is going to limit blocks.

Obi never played in the post until college. He is not a natural shot blocker because of that. It takes a skill that develops over many years to time the shots. Obi does not have that yet. If you watch the great shot blockers, it is all timing. Once he learns that, instead of just trying to jump higher than the guy shooting the ball, the blocks will come.

And as others have said, we are playing with a short bench. They are playing not to foul. Trying to block shots causes fouls. There are more important stats out there than blocked shots to look at how players are playing on defense.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to m21eagle45 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Glen Clark (03-06-2019), SeasonTicketFan (03-06-2019)
  #13  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:26 AM
SeasonTicketFan's Avatar
SeasonTicketFan SeasonTicketFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 2,886
Thanks: 2,890
Thanked 3,311 Times in 1,306 Posts
SeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond repute
In addition to shot blocking on defense, the guards could do a better job of stopping dribble penetration. At the end of the VCU and URI losses, their players drove to the Hoop and scored at ease. In the second half of the Davidson game, Davidson did it for the entire second half.


Getting backside and weakside help would be nice, but slowing down the dives has hurt the team in more than one end of game situation.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to SeasonTicketFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (03-06-2019), jack72 (03-06-2019)
  #14  
Old 03-06-2019, 01:06 PM
hawkoooo's Avatar
hawkoooo hawkoooo is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,553
Thanks: 522
Thanked 834 Times in 428 Posts
hawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond repute
Mikesell is the best shot blocker on the team. That is a problem.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to hawkoooo For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (03-06-2019), UDGutter2 (03-06-2019)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.