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05-06-2017, 09:53 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Welcome to the Family Jalen Crutcher!
A PG!... Sorry I forgot to post, McKinley Who? lol
JALEN CRUTCHER 2️⃣ @Jalen_NoRose1 5m5 minutes ago
More
#GoFlyers❗️
https://twitter.com/Jalen_NoRose1/st...53717079293952
Last edited by lhsgolf19; 05-06-2017 at 10:13 AM..
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05-06-2017, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Poll Question.
Will OSUFlyer be able to relax for up to five minutes now?
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05-06-2017, 10:05 AM
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Major General
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CRUTCH!!! Great news!
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05-06-2017, 10:09 AM
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Couldn't he have waited until June to announce?
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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05-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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General
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0snTwj79ow
Lots of tools in his bucket in that video, defensive steals, set up his teammates well on a couple of highlights, mid range jumper off the curl, and several deep threes (plus he didn't miss a single free throw in the entire highlight package)
Is it just me, or does his jump shot look remarkable familiar to a recently graduated Dayton PG?
With the mess that Tubby has created down in Memphis and around Memphis area recruits, this is probably a good part of the country for AG to target over the next couple of seasons. Loads of talent in the region.
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05-06-2017, 10:15 AM
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Colonel
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I don't know much about him. Is he a point guard?
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05-06-2017, 10:18 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by swish61
I don't know much about him. Is he a point guard?
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Yes a really talented Point Guard
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05-06-2017, 10:30 AM
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General of the Air Force
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About time, it has only been 117 days for Grant. ( I learned math from UDScott)
Great job AG and staff. My hunch is #2 is real close to committing as well.
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05-06-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by swish61
I don't know much about him. Is he a point guard?
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
Yes a really talented Point Guard
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Talented and skinny. But not physically ready to lead an NCAAT team. He's a keeper, but not the solution to our 2017-18 problems.
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I shaved my balls for this?
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05-06-2017, 10:35 AM
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General of the Air Force
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05-06-2017, 10:38 AM
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Lieutenant General
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He even called it the University of Dayton in his twitter announcement!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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05-06-2017, 10:54 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by Medford
With the mess that Tubby has created down in Memphis and around Memphis area recruits, this is probably a good part of the country for AG to target over the next couple of seasons. Loads of talent in the region.
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We definitely are. No other area where new staff has been as active in these first few months.
Originally Posted by rollo
Talented and skinny.
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Thankfully not unskilled and fat...
Originally Posted by C-time
He even called it the University of Dayton in his twitter announcement!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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He botched it once and like a dozen UD dudes tweeted at him. If he screwed it up twice, you might question his intelligence and/or coachability!
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05-06-2017, 11:10 AM
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Brigadier General
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I can relax for five minutes now Two will get me a warm and fuzzy-feeling.. Welcome to the Flyers, Jalen!
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05-06-2017, 11:46 AM
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Brigadier General
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When Jalen signed with Tenn-Chat, here is what then coach Mike McCall said about him:
"We're bringing in one at every position and there's a good balance too between talented high school and experienced junior college players. Equally important is they're all high-character kids. We're excited about the group. This might be the best recruiting class we have had in a long time"
Crutcher comes from a familiar location for Mocs guards. The Memphis native preps at Ridgeway for Wes Henning, just as senior Greg Pryor and Johnathan Burroughs-Cook did. He averaged 18 points, four assists and two steals per game a year ago and is a 3-star recruit (rivals.com).
"Jalen was the first kid I offered when I got here," McCall stated. "We've been recruiting him for two years. Obviously, his relationship with (Johnathan) Burroughs (-Cook) and (Greg) Pryor coming from the same high school helped. He is a High-energy, High-level talent at the point guard spot. He is a terror on defense, and can really, really shoot which is something that complements the point guard we have coming back in Rodney (Chatman). They both bring different things to the table."
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05-06-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Talented and skinny. But not physically ready to lead an NCAAT team. He's a keeper, but not the solution to our 2017-18 problems.
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Better than anything else out there. We were probably in a similar situation under AM with a HS player starting.
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05-06-2017, 12:03 PM
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yep, wasn't it Al McGuire (spelling?) who said the best thing about freshmen, is they become sophomores... he'll make freshman mistakes, absolutely.. but we may have something here, it will be interesting to see how he progresses each season.
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05-06-2017, 12:13 PM
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I watched almost all of Jalen Crutchers you tube videos and whereas Farmville Centrals Tyler Maye shoots from almost above his head which makes his attempts nearly impossible to block, Jalen's shot has a lower release point and needs more room on his shots. The good news is that he is a smart player and usually never gets his shot blocked! He is a great defender, a very good shooter and passer. He can get to the rim at will. Needs to bulk up if he wants to get the and one's like Scoochie did!
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05-06-2017, 12:22 PM
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Straight out of HS Scoochie had his challenges re weight, handle, finishing. He just got better every year. Maybe Jalen's improvement curve will be even better.
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05-06-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0snTwj79ow
Lots of tools in his bucket in that video, defensive steals, set up his teammates well on a couple of highlights, mid range jumper off the curl, and several deep threes (plus he didn't miss a single free throw in the entire highlight package)
Is it just me, or does his jump shot look remarkable familiar to a recently graduated Dayton PG?
With the mess that Tubby has created down in Memphis and around Memphis area recruits, this is probably a good part of the country for AG to target over the next couple of seasons. Loads of talent in the region.
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Good skill set. At the 1:45min mark he even took out a cheerleader. Versatile.
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05-06-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Straight out of HS Scoochie had his challenges re weight, handle, finishing. He just got better every year. Maybe Jalen's improvement curve will be even better.
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I hope so! This may be the perfect situation to see whether AG can even come close to the way AM seemed to be able to motivate each player to make themselves a better player with each passing year. Granted, it took some longer than others!
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05-06-2017, 12:39 PM
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As of right now give this kid the reins. We likely arent going to the NCAA's this year anyway. Let him get his bumps in now and he'll be seasoned and playing like a vet come A-10 tourney time.
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05-06-2017, 12:44 PM
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Brigadier General
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How i it lhsgolf gets the drop every single time on these signings?
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05-06-2017, 12:47 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
How i it lhsgolf gets the drop every single time on these signings?
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Because I am that good lol
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05-06-2017, 12:47 PM
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Welcome to the UD family Jalen
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05-06-2017, 12:53 PM
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General
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Home run for AG. Guy is a 3 star but looking on twitter Arkansas and some SEC folks were gonna make a run if he reclassified into 2018.
I saw on the Memphis board a coach say he was the 2nd best shooter in the Greater Memphis area out of anyone in any class
Last edited by OSU Flyer; 05-06-2017 at 01:08 PM..
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05-06-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
How i it lhsgolf gets the drop every single time on these signings?
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
Because I am that good lol
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Stop fooling everybody lhsgolf19. You're just the only one smart enough to have twitter notifications turned on for the right people to get the scoops, or you refresh your twitter timeline a lot.
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05-06-2017, 12:59 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by C-time
Stop fooling everybody lhsgolf19. You're just the only one smart enough to have twitter notifications turned on for the right people to get the scoops, or you refresh your twitter timeline a lot.
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haha you caught me.... I have a sickness lol
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05-06-2017, 01:00 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Jalen played in the AAU Adidas Gauntlet tourney last weekend as a U17 and put up some crazy numbers. Look at these shooting percentages. https://mobile.twitter.com/I_OWNTHE_...726529/photo/1
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05-06-2017, 01:12 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Poll Question.
Will OSUFlyer be able to relax for up to five minutes now?
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All credit to AG and the staff on this one. Fantastic work by them
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05-06-2017, 01:14 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer
Better than anything else out there. We were probably in a similar situation under AM with a HS player starting.
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Have seen some folks ranking Maye higher than Crutcher. Would love to get Maye too of course, but as far as comparing them...
Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer
I watched almost all of Jalen Crutchers you tube videos and whereas Farmville Centrals Tyler Maye shoots from almost above his head which makes his attempts nearly impossible to block, Jalen's shot has a lower release point and needs more room on his shots. The good news is that he is a smart player and usually never gets his shot blocked! He is a great defender, a very good shooter and passer. He can get to the rim at will. Needs to bulk up if he wants to get the and one's like Scoochie did!
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My impression is that Crutcher is the better all around true PG. He reminds me a ton of Scooch. Maye is a dynamic scorer who reminds me of Ramod Marshall. I think you could definitely play him off the ball with Crutcher but capable at point too. Jordan Davis is also a great scoring guard of course, but not really a combo like Maye (or Jitaurious Gordan for that matter). Would be awesome to get another combo, but getting a real PG was absolutely imperative. Kudos to Grant for getting it done!
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05-06-2017, 01:16 PM
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Very excited about getting a PG in the fold. Don't see him being all that effective his Freshman year, but I like his long term prospects.
2 things I want to call out:
1.) I think some here are overselling his abilities and comparing him to Scoochie. Depending on which source you look at - Scoochie was a borderline top 100 player. Jalen is outside the top 300. Jalens best offer other than UD is either UMass or DePaul.
2.) There are a lot of people on these boards who said some very negative things about McKinley Wright because he decommited. If you look up "PG who outplayed his commitment during his senior season and then used a coaching change to move to a bigger school" you will see pictures of MW and Jalen. I know we love our own, but I see some hypocrites in here who questioned MW's character for doing exactly what Jalen did. Those same people don't seem to questions Jalen's character at all.
Either way - I am happy to have Jalen aboard.
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05-06-2017, 01:20 PM
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General
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He looks somewhat like Scooch with his patient style of movement. His 3 point shot has a higher trajectory than Scooch's. And he seems to have that Vee Sanford floater going for him also. I also thought that Darrell Davis had a great floater from his HS highlights but I've yet to see it in 3 years here so far so I won't harp on that too much lol.
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05-06-2017, 01:22 PM
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Scoochie set a pretty low bar his Freshman year. Jalen should not have any problem matching those numbers:
http://daytonflyers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5
(click on "career stats")
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05-06-2017, 01:24 PM
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General
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Playing in Memphis he's battle tested for the high school ranks. Memphis talent is down in the 17 class but there's a legit half a dozen Power 5 caliber guys in the 2018 class and some McDonald's AA beyond that in the Lawsons
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05-06-2017, 01:33 PM
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Major General
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Yeah, I don't think anyone is projecting him to be Scoochie here. As Smitty said, it's the style that's comparable. He looks like he plays a bit like a young Scooch. And as SDF points out Scoochie improved a ton from his freshman year. But to say Crutcher can be what Scoochie was as a frosh isn't a stretch at all. For him to improve to the level Scoochie ultimately got to is a different thing all together.
Last edited by DallasFlyer; 05-06-2017 at 01:35 PM..
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05-06-2017, 01:42 PM
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General
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He's a legit 6'2-3. He's right up there height wise with AG in his photo.
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05-06-2017, 02:18 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Good skill set. At the 1:45min mark he even took out a cheerleader. Versatile.
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Rollo has "taken out" more cheerleaders than any one man...so don't get so excited about this one event!
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05-06-2017, 02:37 PM
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I hate myself for paying attention to this, but I noticed Naz Carter retweeted the news of this commit.
Do you know what that means? No really...does anyone know what that means?
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05-06-2017, 02:40 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by MNFats
I hate myself for paying attention to this, but I noticed Naz Carter retweeted the news of this commit.
Do you know what that means? No really...does anyone know what that means?
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He's still in play. I think he's doing diligence right now. His stock is up
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05-06-2017, 02:55 PM
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Man, I hope you're right about Carter. Would sure like to have him re-commit.
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05-06-2017, 04:10 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
He's a legit 6'2-3. He's right up there height wise with AG in his photo.
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I like his length for the pg position. He's built much like scooch.
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05-06-2017, 04:15 PM
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Normally I'm not spiteful. and I really do wish McKinley Wright well. But am I alone in wanting Dayton and Colorado to face off in the NCAA Tourney in the next few years and have Jalen just totally school McKinley?
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05-06-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Yeah, I don't think anyone is projecting him to be Scoochie here. As Smitty said, it's the style that's comparable. He looks like he plays a bit like a young Scooch. And as SDF points out Scoochie improved a ton from his freshman year. But to say Crutcher can be what Scoochie was as a frosh isn't a stretch at all. For him to improve to the level Scoochie ultimately got to is a different thing all together.
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I just don't see where Scoochie got to as a Senior is unreachable. 47/39/77 and 13+ points a game? If we expect to make 4 more NCAA's in row, that better be the goal for a Senior point guard. I believe he will be what Scoochie was as a Frosh and as a Senior. The tough metric will be 2-1 TO ratio, but I sure wouldn't rule him out.
The intangible will be leadership qualities. Has he got them? Stay tuned.
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05-06-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CraSch
Normally I'm not spiteful. and I really do wish McKinley Wright well. But am I alone in wanting Dayton and Colorado to face off in the NCAA Tourney in the next few years and have Jalen just totally school McKinley?
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or better yet Indiana...... and if you think for a nanosecond that the committee doesn't set this stuff up you're misinformed
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05-06-2017, 05:02 PM
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Scooch was a flyweight soaking wet as a frosh. Four years of protein shakes and a weight room did wonders for him and will do wonders for others who wish to apply themselves and have a good baseline of talent to begin with. Talent trumps everything. Id rather have talented and undersized than size without talent.
With kindest regards,
Shawnta Rogers
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05-06-2017, 05:29 PM
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Jalen Crutcher has a bit of Scoochie in him. Check out the video. He even has that back-up three shot like Scoochie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0snTwj79ow
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05-06-2017, 05:46 PM
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05-06-2017, 05:57 PM
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http://daytonflyers.com/news/2017/5/...th-dayton.aspx
"We are very excited to welcome Jalen to the Dayton Flyer Family," Grant said. "Jalen's game really fits our style of play. He has the ability to score the ball in a variety of ways while also possessing the IQ and skill set to generate and facilitate for his teammates.
"He fills an immediate need for us. To be able to get a player of his caliber at this stage is a credit to the hard work and resiliency of our coaches and support staff, as well as the passion of the Flyer Faithful."
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05-06-2017, 06:03 PM
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Saw Scoochie play a bunch at Putnam Science Academy and Crutcher reminds me a lot of him at the same point in their careers. And I feel like the things I worried about with Scoochie are the same things that concern me with Crutcher. Slight of build and good shooter but more of a set shot than a true jump shot. Although if you do watch that highlight video when he takes the step back jumper he elevates much more than his other "jump" shots. A lot of kids don't realize how much faster the game is in college than high school and shots don't come as easily. Scoochie overcame all of them so hopefully Jalen does too.
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05-06-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
http://daytonflyers.com/news/2017/5/...th-dayton.aspx
"We are very excited to welcome Jalen to the Dayton Flyer Family," Grant said. "Jalen's game really fits our style of play. He has the ability to score the ball in a variety of ways while also possessing the IQ and skill set to generate and facilitate for his teammates.
"He fills an immediate need for us. To be able to get a player of his caliber at this stage is a credit to the hard work and resiliency of our coaches and support staff, as well as the passion of the Flyer Faithful."
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6'3 / 170, not bad to start with
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05-06-2017, 06:46 PM
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05-06-2017, 07:06 PM
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My concerns...
I don't like his low release on his jump shot and he didn't show much with his left hand. He used his right hand going in for a left side layup. ☹️
I like his size. He seems like a solid pick up this late in the recruiting game. I still think we need another PG. I would like to see a juco point.
Last edited by Gem City; 05-06-2017 at 07:10 PM..
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05-06-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I just don't see where Scoochie got to as a Senior is unreachable. 47/39/77 and 13+ points a game? If we expect to make 4 more NCAA's in row, that better be the goal for a Senior point guard. I believe he will be what Scoochie was as a Frosh and as a Senior. The tough metric will be 2-1 TO ratio, but I sure wouldn't rule him out.
The intangible will be leadership qualities. Has he got them? Stay tuned.
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Tough to measure Scooch with stats. The dude was clutch. To say it simply, he had balls. There were multiple games his clutchness sealed the deal for us (Davidson OT first to mind).
There will be many who are capable of matching Scooch's stats. Very few can match what he did in the final 5 minutes of a game.
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05-06-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
There are a lot of people on these boards who said some very negative things about McKinley Wright because he decommited. If you look up "PG who outplayed his commitment during his senior season and then used a coaching change to move to a bigger school" you will see pictures of MW and Jalen. I know we love our own, but I see some hypocrites in here who questioned MW's character for doing exactly what Jalen did. Those same people don't seem to questions Jalen's character at all.
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MNFats, more like MNFacts AmIright? Seriously, thank you for pointing this out. Folks on this board want to have it both ways. McKinley is a great kid, and a terrific leader who did what was best for HIM. Jalen did the same.
Wishing them both the best!!
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05-06-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HotSauce
Tough to measure Scooch with stats. The dude was clutch. To say it simply, he had balls. There were multiple games his clutchness sealed the deal for us (Davidson OT first to mind).
There will be many who are capable of matching Scooch's stats. Very few can match what he did in the final 5 minutes of a game.
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I agree Scoochie was a leader and was eventually a clutch player. We couldn't tell that by his skinny Freshman stature and bad numbers. So yes, he got much better each year until he was really the key to our seasons as a Junior and Senior. I'm just saying give this new kid some slack. He could develop the same way, in the same pattern. As an aside, a much better defensive player to start than Scooch according to those who have followed him.
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05-06-2017, 11:28 PM
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UD2, thanks for providing this site link. I compared Crutcher to Wright & came up with this:
Skills review (Crutcher/Wright) - Shooting: Good/Average
- Dribbling: Excellent/Good
- Passing: Average/Good
- Rebounding: Average/Average
- Intangibles: Good/Excellent
Comparing strengths/weaknesses (Crutcher/Wright)
Agility: C=W
Changing pace: C=W
3 pt shooting/shooting: C>W
Finishing through contact: C=W
Basketball IQ: C<W
Motor: C<W
Playmaking: C=W
Ball handling: C>W
Slashing: C>W
Scoring: C>W
Ambidextrous finishing: C<W
Rebounding: C=W
So, very similar in many respects, maybe slight upside to Wright, but not by much. Looks like Crutcher may be a better scorer/shooter, but we may miss those Scoochie impossible playground circus shots in traffic.
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05-07-2017, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I just don't see where Scoochie got to as a Senior is unreachable. 47/39/77 and 13+ points a game? If we expect to make 4 more NCAA's in row, that better be the goal for a Senior point guard. [B]I believe he will be what Scoochie was as a Frosh and as a Senior[\B]. The tough metric will be 2-1 TO ratio, but I sure wouldn't rule him out.
The intangible will be leadership qualities. Has he got them? Stay tuned.
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And you have what to go on? Talk about blind faith. Scoochie Smith is a Top 2 point guard in the history of UD hoops. There is very little chance that will happen. Feel free to open and close threads at will to get your point home with the last word
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05-07-2017, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
And you have what to go on? Talk about blind faith. Scoochie Smith is a Top 2 point guard in the history of UD hoops. There is very little chance that will happen. Feel free to open and close threads at will to get your point home with the last word
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Scooch is up there, I don't know about top 2. Johnny Davis, Brian Roberts, N Knight just to name a few hard to beat,plus these 3 played in the NBA. Plus Davis has a ring to his credit at Portland
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05-07-2017, 08:17 AM
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Not stating that this kid will be Scooch...hopefully...but...
The similarities that we all are seeing are his smooth handles, but not overly quick. His smooth jumper...but methodical on the release and not much elevation. Also, he is at the rim in a few of his highlights where he just happens to be smooth at finishing a layup.
SKillset? We will see. His movement is pretty similar though.
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05-07-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
And you have what to go on? Talk about blind faith. Scoochie Smith is a Top 2 point guard in the history of UD hoops. There is very little chance that will happen. Feel free to open and close threads at will to get your point home with the last word
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So, what round will he go in? If I had the power to close threads, you and your twin udscott would never get one to last a minute. Process that.
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05-07-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Scooch is up there, I don't know about top 2. Johnny Davis, Brian Roberts, N Knight just to name a few hard to beat,plus these 3 played in the NBA. Plus Davis has a ring to his credit at Portland
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Donald Smith was pretty awesome. Gordy Hatton was outstanding. The Senior class in the mid fifties had the highest winning % of any Dayton Senior class. Don Lane was the leader at point. Too far back for most of you to know.
Last edited by San Diego Flyer; 05-07-2017 at 09:20 AM..
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05-07-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Scooch is up there, I don't know about top 2. Johnny Davis, Brian Roberts, N Knight just to name a few hard to beat,plus these 3 played in the NBA. Plus Davis has a ring to his credit at Portland
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I'd put SS as 2nd all-time best PG behind Johnny Davis in terms of the most consistent to ever play at UD. I'd put Scooch first for any PG to play 4 years since Johnny D. declared for the draft at the end of his junior year. Loved Brian Roberts but when he played here was not a true PG (but became one after UD). Negele Knight, while outstanding his senior year wasn't the team player SS was. Hopefully Jalen can be like what we've become - spoiled by Scoochy
FWIW, I loved Donald Smith as a 2 but he wasn't a PG...but he was likely the best pure shooter to ever wear a UD uniform.
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05-07-2017, 09:47 AM
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NBA career and draft have nothing to do with how a guy performed at UD. Scoochie will not be drafted, but he is still the #2 point guard ever at UD. Some Heisman winners flop as pros, that does not make them less of an all-time great at their alma mater.
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05-07-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
2.) There are a lot of people on these boards who said some very negative things about McKinley Wright because he decommited. If you look up "PG who outplayed his commitment during his senior season and then used a coaching change to move to a bigger school" you will see pictures of MW and Jalen. I know we love our own, but I see some hypocrites in here who questioned MW's character for doing exactly what Jalen did. Those same people don't seem to questions Jalen's character at all.
Either way - I am happy to have Jalen aboard.
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Don't consider Colorado a bigger school. They've won two NCAA tournament games in the last 40+ years. They went 19-15 last year. He was given the keys to the car at a bigger school(Dayton) and he turned it down to go to a worse basketball program where he has to compete for minutes.
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05-07-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ43
Don't consider Colorado a bigger school. They've won two NCAA tournament games in the last 40+ years. They went 19-15 last year. He was given the keys to the car at a bigger school(Dayton) and he turned it down to go to a worse basketball program where he has to compete for minutes.
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He will play against better competition at a school that has had more players drafted in the NBA in the last 6 years than we have in the last 30.
I'm not looking to get into a debate of Colorado vs UD. Just calling out hypocrites questioning MWs character, but welcoming Jalen with open arms despite the fact that Jalen did exactly what they hate MW for.
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05-07-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
You might have covered this in other threads, but, what are your general thoughts on the roster now? Do you think we should still try to land a JUCO or grad transfer to run the point next year?
And we might have up to 2 open scholarships depending on what happens with Crosby and Carter.
3★SGDarrell Davis(6-5 174)
3.7★SFJosh Cunningham(6-7 225)
3★SFXeyrius Williams(6-8 210)
2★SFRyan Mikesell(6-7 210)
3★PFSam Miller(6-9 238)
3★SGTrey Landers(6-4 219)
3.3★SFKostas Antetokounmpo(6-10 190)
3★PGJalen Crutcher(6-3 170)Committed
3★SGJordan Davis(6-4 180)Signed
2★SFMatej Svoboda(6-7 205)Signed
2★PFJordan Pierce(6-10 245)Signed
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I am pretty sure Crutcher is officially signed. AG would not have been able to talk about him publicly if he wasn't.
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05-07-2017, 11:33 AM
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Yes Crutcher signed just before they left.
Last edited by Avid Flyer; 05-07-2017 at 09:44 PM..
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05-07-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
I'd put SS as 2nd all-time best PG behind Johnny Davis in terms of the most consistent to ever play at UD. I'd put Scooch first for any PG to play 4 years since Johnny D. declared for the draft at the end of his junior year. Loved Brian Roberts but when he played here was not a true PG (but became one after UD). Negele Knight, while outstanding his senior year wasn't the team player SS was. Hopefully Jalen can be like what we've become - spoiled by Scoochy
FWIW, I loved Donald Smith as a 2 but he wasn't a PG...but he was likely the best pure shooter to ever wear a UD uniform.
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There is no way I would rate scoochie ahead of Negele. Negele carried a team on his back into the ncaa tournament and won games. Teams such as Xavier knew they had to stop Negele to win and they couldn't do it.
Scoochie may have been more of a team player, I'm not sure about that one. But, I think negele had to carry the load for them to win and he did it.
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05-07-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
There is no way I would rate scoochie ahead of Negele. Negele carried a team on his back into the ncaa tournament and won games. Teams such as Xavier knew they had to stop Negele to win and they couldn't do it.
Scoochie may have been more of a team player, I'm not sure about that one. But, I think negele had to carry the load for them to win and he did it.
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Agreed! As much as I love Scoochie, he was not as talented a player as Negele. I'll admit Scoochie was pretty clutch but so was Negele. I would probably give the intangibles category to Scoochie but he would not win many other categories. And Scoochie played with a better group of players overall throughout his career.
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05-07-2017, 12:46 PM
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Negele tied or won games on the last shot 11 times. Whole nutha league.
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05-07-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
He will play against better competition at a school that has had more players drafted in the NBA in the last 6 years than we have in the last 30.
I'm not looking to get into a debate of Colorado vs UD. Just calling out hypocrites questioning MWs character, but welcoming Jalen with open arms despite the fact that Jalen did exactly what they hate MW for.
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Im not seeing HATE for MW. Im seeing alot of indifference. I prefer to focus on guys who are here and want to be here. Im indifferent to Naz,Archie and McKinley as i was to T. Meacham. It is what it is and go do your thing.
Disdain? Lets talk Juwan Staten. He and his Dad ripped apart what should have been a banner year. To hell with him.
Don't expect me to follow Archie and McKinleys move like the spurned boyfriend of the girl who dumped me for the star QB.
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05-07-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
Yes Crutches signed just before they left.
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Don't go throwing out that kind of JuJu.
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05-07-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
He will play against better competition at a school that has had more players drafted in the NBA in the last 6 years than we have in the last 30.
I'm not looking to get into a debate of Colorado vs UD. Just calling out hypocrites questioning MWs character, but welcoming Jalen with open arms despite the fact that Jalen did exactly what they hate MW for.
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Being hypocritical is the God given right of every sports fan. It is a right that is justified by enduring losing seasons, last minute losses and poor executed front office/school administration moves.
I would be willing to bet there was a fair amount of fans on this board hoping for the announcement of a quality grad transfer PG that previously argued against the immediate eligibility of them in previous threads.
As mentioned by Brob2 previously, most don't or won't care. If you want to keep discussing it, you pretty much need to accept that you're most likely to hear from the people that are just expressing that indifference aggressively. He was never here... it's not even a transfer situation. I will keep an eye on him but more out of curiosity than care. Crutcher is here; we care about him.
Most of us don't live in Minnesota. I'm sure I would be excited and more invested if MW was from NE Florida. But I wouldn't be surprised that nobody cared as much as me or were hypocritical once he decided to go somewhere else.
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05-07-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
NBA career and draft have nothing to do with how a guy performed at UD. Scoochie will not be drafted, but he is still the #2 point guard ever at UD. Some Heisman winners flop as pros, that does not make them less of an all-time great at their alma mater.
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I accept that you are convinced of that.
What are you basing that on? Leaving out his Freshman year? He is behind Knight, Davis, Roberts ( who played point by default) in my book. Their pro careers validate their college accomplishments. In that regard, Scoochie is TBD with all the precincts yet to report. I hope he joins a team this summer and makes a roster.
In fact it will be interesting to see how Jalen measures up to all of the above in 4-6 years.
Like I posted before, Scooch set a pretty low bar his Freshman year.
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05-07-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
What are you basing that on? Leaving out his Freshman year? He is behind Knight, Davis, Roberts ( who played point by default) in my book. Their pro careers validate their college accomplishments. In that regard, Scoochie is TBD with all the precincts yet to report. I hope he joins a team this summer and makes a roster.
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An NBA roster?
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05-07-2017, 05:15 PM
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Welcome to the Flyer family Jalen! Work hard and earn that PT!
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05-07-2017, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I accept that you are convinced of that.
What are you basing that on? Leaving out his Freshman year? He is behind Knight, Davis, Roberts ( who played point by default) in my book. Their pro careers validate their college accomplishments. In that regard, Scoochie is TBD with all the precincts yet to report. I hope he joins a team this summer and makes a roster.
In fact it will be interesting to see how Jalen measures up to all of the above in 4-6 years.
Like I posted before, Scooch set a pretty low bar his Freshman year.
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I saw all of them play. I assume you are questioning why I place Scoochie as #2? I think Davis is #1, as he did it all as a point guard at a high level. Roberts was not a great point guard, but an excellent shooter and leader. Knight had one awesome senior year, a redshirt year. Knight's freshman year was not much, andthe other three years were just very good. Scoochie had three very good years, and was the consummate leader and passer and played great defense. Pretty close for me, but I am not picking just on stats. I give Scoochie a slight nod for #2.
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05-07-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight
Most of us don't live in Minnesota. I'm sure I would be excited and more invested if MW was from NE Florida. But I wouldn't be surprised that nobody cared as much as me or were hypocritical once he decided to go somewhere else.
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It has nothing to do with where I live. I can get to Wisconsin faster than I can get to MW's high school.
It has to do with people calling out his character for doing the same thing Jalen did. I just want to know if those same people think Jalen is a low character guy too.
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05-07-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
NBA career and draft have nothing to do with how a guy performed at UD. Scoochie will not be drafted, but he is still the #2 point guard ever at UD. Some Heisman winners flop as pros, that does not make them less of an all-time great at their alma mater.
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You can make your case with 2 words: Roosevelt Chapman.
I am somewhat surprised though that you easily put Scooch over Bobby Joe. Seems to me that could be a close one.
Last edited by Smitty10; 05-07-2017 at 06:37 PM..
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05-07-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight
Don't go throwing out that kind of JuJu.
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WHAT
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05-07-2017, 07:22 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
WHAT
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I'm going to guess he means nicknaming him "crutches".
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05-07-2017, 07:23 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
WHAT
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Avid, Your post says "CRUTCHES" instead of Crutcher. We have had enough injuries !
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05-07-2017, 07:52 PM
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Major General
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Crutch is a great nickname for a PG. At that position, he should prop up his teammates and act as a support for the offense.
Last edited by DallasFlyer; 05-07-2017 at 07:55 PM..
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05-07-2017, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time
An NBA roster?
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Yes. Exceptional undrafted players, under the radar, make it to the NBA occasionally (see Finney-Smith this year).
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05-07-2017, 09:08 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Yes. Exceptional undrafted players, under the radar, make it to the NBA occasionally (see Finney-Smith this year).
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You are a very optimistic and positive person SDF. I hope he makes enough money in Europe so he doesn't have to ask for money for his online clothing store.
Also don't rewatch the 2nd half of the Wichita St game when he gave up two key baskets that sealed UD's fate that night. And since this is a Jalen Crutcher thread I hope he can play better defense than Scoochie ever did.
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05-07-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
I saw all of them play. I assume you are questioning why I place Scoochie as #2? I think Davis is #1, as he did it all as a point guard at a high level. Roberts was not a great point guard, but an excellent shooter and leader. Knight had one awesome senior year, a redshirt year. Knight's freshman year was not much, andthe other three years were just very good. Scoochie had three very good years, and was the consummate leader and passer and played great defense. Pretty close for me, but I am not picking just on stats. I give Scoochie a slight nod for #2.
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I have to disagree on Knight's freshman year. It took a while for his teammates to catch up to his behind the back and no look passes. By seasons end he was looking great and took down Rivers and Notre Who.
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05-07-2017, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
I have to disagree on Knight's freshman year. It took a while for his teammates to catch up to his behind the back and no look passes. By seasons end he was looking great and took down Rivers and Notre Who.
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Agree 100%. - it was obvious in his freshman year we had something very special with NK.
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05-07-2017, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
Avid, Your post says "CRUTCHES" instead of Crutcher. We have had enough injuries !
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Damm spell checker, thats what I get for posting with cell phone, need to watch closer, thanks, missed it completely.
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05-07-2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
You can make your case with 2 words: Roosevelt Chapman.
I am somewhat surprised though that you easily put Scooch over Bobby Joe. Seems to me that could be a close one.
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Bobby Joe Hooper - my vote for best point guard. He was all heart and soul. Hard nosed and smart. I don't think I ever saw him get trapped or lose his focus, or make a bad play. Played for the Indiana Pacers in the big show. Don't dismiss a legend like him when discussing point guards.
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05-07-2017, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
He will play against better competition at a school that has had more players drafted in the NBA in the last 6 years than we have in the last 30.
I'm not looking to get into a debate of Colorado vs UD. Just calling out hypocrites questioning MWs character, but welcoming Jalen with open arms despite the fact that Jalen did exactly what they hate MW for.
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I think the big difference is MW traded down and Jalen traded up. From a Basketball IQ test Jalen passed and MW failed. Just sayin.
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05-08-2017, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by podcast411
I think the big difference is MW traded down and Jalen traded up. From a Basketball IQ test Jalen passed and MW failed. Just sayin.
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Depends on your goals. I would consider UD a better basketball school. I think most people would. But if he wants to play in the NBA, I'm not afraid to admit he's got a better chance of that at Colorado. They have (by most sources) a better incoming Freshman class and he gets to show his skills against UCLA and Arizona. He can't do that here.
Maybe that backfires and he doesn't play well in those moments. But if the NBA is the primary goal, I have a hard time saying he traded down.
We have amazing fans and a great program. Amazing fans don't help on draft day. Good tape against UCLA and Arizona does.
I digress - this thread is supposed to be about celebrating the arrival of Mr. Crutcher. My apologies.
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05-08-2017, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by podcast411
I think the big difference is MW traded down and Jalen traded up. From a Basketball IQ test Jalen passed and MW failed. Just sayin.
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I am not sure that MW failed the IQ test.
I am sure that he liked the track record of Colorado's hc...
Let's quit bashing Colorado, their hc has a very good track record, a track record similar to AM's track record at UD, that probably was a big factor.
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05-08-2017, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Scooch is up there, I don't know about top 2. Johnny Davis, Brian Roberts, N Knight just to name a few hard to beat,plus these 3 played in the NBA. Plus Davis has a ring to his credit at Portland
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Ramod Marshall!!!
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05-08-2017, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
You can make your case with 2 words: Roosevelt Chapman.
I am somewhat surprised though that you easily put Scooch over Bobby Joe. Seems to me that could be a close one.
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Hooper was great - no question. But in the modern era of UD BB, SS as a PG was instrumental in 5 NCAA wins. negele knight, 1 win. Hooper by comparison of accomplishments is better than SS and way beyond negele knight.
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05-08-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
Hooper was great - no question. But in the modern era of UD BB, SS as a PG was instrumental in 5 NCAA wins. negele knight, 1 win. Hooper by comparison of accomplishments is better than SS and way beyond negele knight.
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Well, I liked Bobby Joe Hooper a lot, that's why I made the statement. But in all fairness, if you're just looking at NCAA wins for accomplishments, our consensus greatest PG, Johnny Davis(1 NCAA win) would take a back seat to Hooper and Scooch and would be considered maybe equal to Knight and Warren. So, I can't really base it on that.
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05-08-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
Depends on your goals. I would consider UD a better basketball school. I think most people would. But if he wants to play in the NBA, I'm not afraid to admit he's got a better chance of that at Colorado. They have (by most sources) a better incoming Freshman class and he gets to show his skills against UCLA and Arizona. He can't do that here.
Maybe that backfires and he doesn't play well in those moments. But if the NBA is the primary goal, I have a hard time saying he traded down.
We have amazing fans and a great program. Amazing fans don't help on draft day. Good tape against UCLA and Arizona does.
I digress - this thread is supposed to be about celebrating the arrival of Mr. Crutcher. My apologies.
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Look, I can see where playing at one school over another gives you more attention with the NBA scouts, but let's be realistic here, the NBA has a way of filtering out the contenders from the pretenders. Players that get to the NBA get there by their own skill, not by the exposure they get on tape against good teams. The reason Colorado has more players get to the NBA than UD is because Colorado has recruited more NBA players. If a player is good enough to play in the NBA after Colorado, he's also good enough to play in the NBA after Dayton.
Now, if you want to argue that Colorado's coaching is responsible for developing players to NBA caliber and UD's is responsible for not developing them, that would be a legitimate debate, but to argue that NBA talent has been passed over from Dayton is a stretch. The players we have had get to the NBA needed development after graduation to get there, it wasn't because they were overlooked.
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05-08-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
He will play against better competition at a school that has had more players drafted in the NBA in the last 6 years than we have in the last 30.
I'm not looking to get into a debate of Colorado vs UD. Just calling out hypocrites questioning MWs character, but welcoming Jalen with open arms despite the fact that Jalen did exactly what they hate MW for.
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It's amusing to me that you find people talking up the kid that committed to Dayton and talking down the kid that decommitted to UD surprising on a UD FAN MESSAGE BOARD.
If you want totally unbiased fan comments... good luck finding them. Maybe you can start up your own board. And shut it down a few months later due to complete lack of interest.
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05-08-2017, 09:49 AM
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Hybrid?
Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
Damm spell checker, thats what I get for posting with cell phone, need to watch closer, thanks, missed it completely.
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How about a hybrid? CRUNCH !--time.
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05-08-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Let's quit bashing Colorado, their hc has a very good track record, a track record similar to AM's track record at UD, that probably was a big factor.
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How long before Colorado's coach leaves? If Colorado's trajectory continues to rise, he gone.
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05-08-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
How about a hybrid? CRUNCH !--time.
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To help us adjust to UD Hoops post-Scoochie, I'm good with calling him Crunchy.
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