UConn to Big East discussions?

[Nashville_Flyer]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/roth...ons-expansion/

[swish61]

Seems they would need to add another in addition to UConn to keep things even? Hmmmm.

[ud2]

UConn is a public institution, isn't that a problem? All of the BE schools are private institutions.

[m21eagle45]

AAC will boot UConn for football if they rejoin the BE. It would hurt them more not to be in a conference for football than it would help them being in the BE for basketball.

[xubrew]

This is a mistake, so they'll probably do it.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by swish61 Seems they would need to add another in addition to UConn to keep things even? Hmmmm.

They have 10 members...if they add UConn they'll have 11 and can easily adopt the 20-game Conference basketball schedule.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I don't see why they would need to add 2 schools. The BE is fine with a 20 game schedule. If you have 11 teams and play everyone twice, that's 20 games.

[ud2]

A decent, short article IMO from October 2016 on this topic.

Sigh.


http://www.app.com/story/sports/coll...long/91840616/

[Nashville_Flyer]

If you want Dayton in the Big East, I'd be rooting hard for Marquette and Seton Hall to miss the tournament this year. This has been a very good year for the Big East, and I'd think it would be a disappointment if only 4 teams got in. It's a down year for the Big 10 and they could get 6 or 7 in, and of course the ACC is looking at 10 or so. Having 14 or so above-average to great programs in a conference obviously can make a big difference in this regard. Not that this would get Dayton in the Big East, but a few years of fewer-than-expected tournament teams couldn't hurt.

[CT Flyer]

I don't think many BE schools have much love for UConn so this is probably just UConn begging to get in because they are desperate. They have begged the ACC and Big 10 in the past as well.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by rollo They have 10 members...if they add UConn they'll have 11 and can easily adopt the 20-game Conference basketball schedule.

Yes, and that's not smart.

It limits the number of total wins which lowers the power rankings because it 's mathematically impossible to collectively post a conference record that's above .500.

When you only play teams once, you don't get the same boost in the power rankings you get from playing them twice.

There is a reason that the only Power Five conference that routinely sends more than half its teams to the NCAA Tournament is also the only one that has ten teams and plays a true round robin of 18 games.

There is also a reason that the ACC used to routinely send more than half its teams to the tournament when its membership is nine, no longer does. They may this year, but it would only be the second time they've done it when they used to do it more than half the time.

This isn't opinion. It's actual mathematical fact. This will hurt the Big East overtime. It's a mistake. They send five and six teams to the tournament as it is, which is a higher percentage than all other power conferences except for the Big Twelve, and last year one of them one the national title. Maybe things are fine?? Just maybe??

[maddog07]

Unlikely either SH Or MQ gets in. Both projected to finish 17-12 with losing conference records. RPI's of 49 & 85 respectively.

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I don't think many BE schools have much love for UConn so this is probably just UConn begging to get in because they are desperate. They have begged the ACC and Big 10 in the past as well.

I disagree. UConn is a huge draw for the eastern wing of the Big East, with some natural rivalries that are hard to miss. There may be some residual grudges over the breakup (and football), but it's a good fit athletically. It's less of a fit academically and in terms of the public/private makeup of the league.

But I think it also tells us the Big East is thinking bigger than Dayton. We don't have to like it, but that seems to be the case. And every time another thread about the Big East pops up, I cringe. Yeah, I'd love it if the Flyers somehow got an invite, but until then we look like we're groveling.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by The Fly I disagree. UConn is a huge draw for the eastern wing of the Big East, with some natural rivalries that are hard to miss. There may be some residual grudges over the breakup (and football), but it's a good fit athletically. It's less of a fit academically and in terms of the public/private makeup of the league. But I think it also tells us the Big East is thinking bigger than Dayton. We don't have to like it, but that seems to be the case. And every time another thread about the Big East pops up, I cringe. Yeah, I'd love it if the Flyers somehow got an invite, but until then we look like we're groveling.

I think the BE is hesitant on UD because of the potential of Archie leaving. It is important If/When Archie leaves that we don't have any drop off. Butler and X have experienced coaching changes and kept winning. We have to do the same. This next hire is huge to the program going forward. If the new coach is good, not great and we go back to having years like we did under BG, then we are stuck in the A10 for awhile.

[TX Flyer]

BE could care less about Archie being here than our brand. Dayton must move to the second weekend a couple years in a row to build our brand before we are going to be what any major conference is looking for.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Chris R]

Best 4yr run in UD history is happening w/o playing Xavier or being in the BE. Gonzaga and Wichita arent in the BE either and they are doing equally fine.

We pan coaches for leaving for bigger names and conferences by saying the grass isnt always greener. The same can be true for teams themselves and the potential migrations.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer BE could care less about Archie being here than our brand. Dayton must move to the second weekend a couple years in a row to build our brand before we are going to be what any major conference is looking for. Posted via Mobile Device

This is so dumb. Why did the BE take Creighton? Why were they considering UD, SLU and Richmond? In my opinion there are four things that a conference looks for when adding a member, and only one is current success on the court. The other three are history, attendance, and TV market.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Yes, we could be just like Wichita State or Gonzaga every year, which I can be happy with if indeed it does happen.

However, Next year when our schedule comes out we will hear the yearly *****ing about how crappy our home schedule is with very few big name opponents, so I ask the question again, who would most fans rather see coming into the arena?

LaSalle or Villanova?

Fordham or Seton Hall / St Johns?

George Washington / George Mason, or Georgetown?

St. Louis and Duquesne or Xavier and Butler?


Is it easier to recruit when your telling a kid you can play at all the above schools in real big arenas in front of decent size crowds, or when you tell them you can play St. Bony, Fordham, etc. in high school gyms?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan .Is it easier to recruit when your telling a kid you can play at all the above schools in real big arenas in front of decent size crowds, or when you tell them you can play St. Bony, Fordham, etc. in high school gyms?

The former.

[cj]

I have no problem staying in the A10 and making the NCAA every year.

[Avid Flyer]

Its easier to recruit when you make consecutive appearances in the NCAA and go beyond the first weekend.

Brad Stevens did it in the Horizon league, so it can happen in the A-10 as well. Just win and you'll get the invites.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer BE could care less about Archie being here than our brand. Dayton must move to the second weekend a couple years in a row to build our brand before we are going to be what any major conference is looking for. Posted via Mobile Device

I would be they care more about sustained success. And we need to prove that we can continue to play at the level we are at or even better. They don't want to invite us and we join and then we hire the next JO'B. They already have Depaul and St. John's. They don't want to add another anchor.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by The Fly I disagree. UConn is a huge draw for the eastern wing of the Big East, with some natural rivalries that are hard to miss. There may be some residual grudges over the breakup (and football), but it's a good fit athletically. It's less of a fit academically and in terms of the public/private makeup of the league. But I think it also tells us the Big East is thinking bigger than Dayton. We don't have to like it, but that seems to be the case. And every time another thread about the Big East pops up, I cringe. Yeah, I'd love it if the Flyers somehow got an invite, but until then we look like we're groveling.

I didn't say they weren't a draw, I just said there is not a lot of love loss for UConn from the other BE schools, one of which I have some inside knowledge of.

[cj]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...mson/97936834/

And the main reason to go into the BE. You can be a complete failure in-conference and still be considered for the NCAA tournament.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R Best 4yr run in UD history is happening w/o playing Xavier or being in the BE.

...and I don't think that's a coincidence. After years of complacency and being satisfied with the great fan support and attendance, it appears that the UD Administration finally recognized that they had been left behind. Hence, they stepped up the efforts big-time by upping Archie's salary, providing all necessary resources, etc. Now the program seems to play with a little bit of a chip on its shoulder.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I didn't say they weren't a draw, I just said there is not a lot of love loss for UConn from the other BE schools, one of which I have some inside knowledge of.

A few UConn facts: UConn has invested roughly $250 million in FB;...just hired a coach w/ a 5 year contract. More important: UConn, a top 20 public U, considers its peers to be North Carolina, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, etc....not Providence, Seton Hall, Georgetown, etc. Those state schools play FBS FB.....that's what UConn will do.

In that regard, UD's interest in the BE goes way, way beyond BB. UD considers the BE schools to be the nation's prominent Catholic schools. UD very much wants to be viewed as such. I have heard a UD administrator say that outside the BE UD is not considered a top-tier Catholic U. Right or wrong...that's what he said.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by cj I have no problem staying in the A10 and making the NCAA every year.

That's good, because we are not getting into the Big East. They'll take St. Louis before they take us, because of the media market.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer I have heard a UD administrator say that outside the BE UD is not considered a top-tier Catholic U.

...but Butler definitely is.

[CoffeeCan]

For me, making it to the NCAAs and advancing is the only goal that I would like to see us go toward. League titles, conference tournament championships are nice, but they are a bi-product of a great team and the end reward is the Dance.

The Big East gets us there more often, based on the SOS and conference prestige.

The fact that Pitt, Seton Hall, Clemson, and Providence are being considered shows that a better conference helps get you in whether or not we like it or not.

Why did Butler leave their conference if they had it so good?

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer ...and I don't think that's a coincidence. After years of complacency and being satisfied with the great fan support and attendance, it appears that the UD Administration finally recognized that they had been left behind. Hence, they stepped up the efforts big-time by upping Archie's salary, providing all necessary resources, etc. Now the program seems to play with a little bit of a chip on its shoulder.

I believe the Administration has been trying all along. They wanted to be a top program and they wanted to get into the Big East. They simply hadn't hit a home run with a coaching hire until Archie. Who knows what would have happened had the Big East been formed two or three years later.

[NJFlyr71]

Couldn't find a shot horse smilie (sorry if I offend) but this is another "Gee! I wish we were in the BE!" thread. It's just a horse of a slightly different color.

So this is all that's available for now!




Could three times be a charm? Na! No Chance!

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I believe the Administration has been trying all along. They wanted to be a top program and they wanted to get into the Big East. They simply hadn't hit a home run with a coaching hire until Archie. Who knows what would have happened had the Big East been formed two or three years later.

But Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, and Jesuits would have still been in control.

Bottom line, we are just not wanted in that company.

So the only thing to do is win the national tournament 4 years in a row, then let em eat crow.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CoffeeCan]

I dont understand what browser setting forces someone to go to a thread that they did not want to go to. Must be some crazy AI forces. Oh, to have the power to just not click on a story...

[Beatty Town Coach]

I have all the respect in the world for those that argue Dayton's fortunes are better in the big east; therefore, I don't begrudge them a bit for battling or pushing for that.

I happen to think they are wrong about it; but I don't consider it a dead horse. It is still hypothetically possible, albeit not overly likely.

Truth of the matter is that UD has benefited greatly from the departure of the best programs from the A10. Virtually undisputable! Yes, they have been replaced by other quality schools and basketball programs; but they conference has been on a down cycle as of late. Although, the first year after said schools left, the A10 did produce six (6) NCAA Tournament Bids (see coach K's dismay). I have a feeling the A10 will be back to having three to six bids during the next 2-3 seasons. VCU and Rhode Island will be strong, Davidson will be good, SLU will be back, Richmond has Mooney, and as long as St. Joes has Phil as a head coach in a great basketball city, you can believe the hawks will rise again. UMass will be good again, and so will George Mason, who is much improved this year.

Given the passing of big Steve, and the other injuries, if Dayton had played in the big east this season, what would kind of record would they have, where would they finish in the conference standings? What would any of that meant for a possible NCAA Tournament Bid?

I don't know the exact answer, but I highly suspect the current conversation would be different.

There are some schools (Xavier, Butler, Villanova, Marquette and DePaul) that I would enjoy the old school, catholic, and/or regional rivalry against; but for sure I have no real interest in playing St. Johns, Georgetown, Creighton, et al., who cares just beat and dominate who you are playing in conference, and change the fake non conference schedule.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach I have all the respect in the world for those that argue Dayton's fortunes are better in the big east; therefore, I don't begrudge them a bit for battling or pushing for that. I happen to think they are wrong about it; but I don't consider it a dead horse. It is still hypothetically possible, albeit not overly likely. Truth of the matter is that UD has benefited greatly from the departure of the best programs from the A10. Virtually undisputable! Yes, they have been replaced by other quality schools and basketball programs; but they conference has been on a down cycle as of late. Although, the first year after said schools left, the A10 did produce six (6) NCAA Tournament Bids (see coach K's dismay). I have a feeling the A10 will be back to having three to six bids during the next 2-3 seasons. VCU and Rhode Island will be strong, Davidson will be good, SLU will be back, Richmond has Mooney, and as long as St. Joes has Phil as a head coach in a great basketball city, you can believe the hawks will rise again. UMass will be good again, and so will George Mason, who is much improved this year. Given the passing of big Steve, and the other injuries, if Dayton had played in the big east this season, what would kind of record would they have, where would they finish in the conference standings? What would any of that meant for a possible NCAA Tournament Bid? I don't know the exact answer, but I highly suspect the current conversation would be different. There are some schools (Xavier, Butler, Villanova, Marquette and DePaul) that I would enjoy the old school, catholic, and/or regional rivalry against; but for sure I have no real interest in playing St. Johns, Georgetown, Creighton, et al., who cares just beat and dominate who you are playing in conference, and change the fake non conference schedule.

One could argue if Dayton had been in the BE the last 3 years they may have hit on a few of the players they have missed out on. So it is hard to argue this either way. For all we know, our roster could be totally different. I personally think our roster would not be the same as it currently is.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach I have all the respect in the world for those that argue Dayton's fortunes are better in the big east; therefore, I don't begrudge them a bit for battling or pushing for that. I happen to think they are wrong about it; but I don't consider it a dead horse. It is still hypothetically possible, albeit not overly likely. Truth of the matter is that UD has benefited greatly from the departure of the best programs from the A10. Virtually undisputable! Yes, they have been replaced by other quality schools and basketball programs; but they conference has been on a down cycle as of late. Although, the first year after said schools left, the A10 did produce six (6) NCAA Tournament Bids (see coach K's dismay). I have a feeling the A10 will be back to having three to six bids during the next 2-3 seasons. VCU and Rhode Island will be strong, Davidson will be good, SLU will be back, Richmond has Mooney, and as long as St. Joes has Phil as a head coach in a great basketball city, you can believe the hawks will rise again. UMass will be good again, and so will George Mason, who is much improved this year. Given the passing of big Steve, and the other injuries, if Dayton had played in the big east this season, what would kind of record would they have, where would they finish in the conference standings? What would any of that meant for a possible NCAA Tournament Bid? I don't know the exact answer, but I highly suspect the current conversation would be different. There are some schools (Xavier, Butler, Villanova, Marquette and DePaul) that I would enjoy the old school, catholic, and/or regional rivalry against; but for sure I have no real interest in playing St. Johns, Georgetown, Creighton, et al., who cares just beat and dominate who you are playing in conference, and change the fake non conference schedule.

I understand and respect your opinion. I would like to see our non-con strong to balance out what the A10 does not provide in terms of SOS. That would help a lot. But how can we do this without giving up many home games that we need for the $$?

In terms of beating a dead horse, coming on this board every Feb and March to see how our SOS is dropping and the other top conferences are "gathering steam"...

And there are like three threads regarding this, started at various times. Just like there are three thread on AM leaving, etc. Probably makes it seem like it is being talked about more than it is.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TerryK_67]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan ...... And there are like three threads regarding this, started at various times. ......

The mentality on this board by "some" is that if you say it more often, it must be more true!

[Beatty Town Coach]

Well, okay, but then this is a Men's Basketball discussion board, therefore, I really don't find multiple threads discussing same or similar issues, to be all that alarming.

I don't completely buy the idea that a middling Big East standings finish, recruits much differently than be a top two or three A10 team. If that was so obviously true, then many of our recruits could simply have stayed in Chicago and played for DePaul. Or, they could have attended the bottom feeders of just about every power five conference school.

One of the differences I have with many of you on this board...go figure right?, Is that I don't have the same perspective on what makes a good recruit as many of you do. In other words, I could care less about a guys 0% body fat, if he is from an inner city high school, if he has a 40 inch vertical, or any other sociological variable...means virtually nothing.

If having a 40 inch vertical or 0% body fat, meant you could play basketball, then Brian Gregory would still be the head coach at UD, let alone Georgia Tech,...crazy premises. My only question about a recruit, is can they play college basketball and graduate; their NBA potential is not a concern of mine. Just because you have a so called athletic physique doesn't necessarily mean you can "walk and chew gum" at the same time.

If Dayton had been in the big east the last three years, they wouldn't been in the NCAA four years in a row, and they for sure, would have about the same average of talent on the squad. Now 5 to ten years of being in the Big East could change that, but not that the last and first three years of the big east. The current seniors were already long recruited before the big east implosion. And Baby D was, virtually the only Junior, likely already on the radar, if not letter of intent. And would you say Dayton doesn't want Charles Cooke or Josh Cunningham?? I doubt every player in the big east is better than either of them. They could both play for just about every Big East Squad. I could really run this up the flag pole.

I would embrace a Big East membership if UD went in that direction, but in no way do I see it as the panacea that many prescribe to. If we go, then you better make it work; if you stay A10, then you got to make that work. And for many years, prior to the departure of XU, Temple, Butler, and Charlotte; UD did a lot things within the A10, but consistently competing at the top was definitely not one of those things. Make of it what you will; but I see it as no coincidence.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Flyer'95]

If we're talking about sustained success over time, Dayton has been a 20+ win team 15 out of the last 20 years.

We've gone to the NCAA's 8 times in that span, going on 9. And winning 6 games. We've been to the NIT 7 times (with 11 wins). Sustained success is not the reason we have not been invited.

There is a media element to this, and perhaps as many have stated, a personal element to this.

But here's the thing with Archie, I'd stay in the A10 for all time if I knew we could keep him. But someone as talented as Archie will eventually want to play on a bigger stage. We can either let him go find that stage somewhere else, or we can try to bring that stage to him. The big east would give him less of a reason to ever leave.

Not that this is up to a bunch of dudes talking on a message board or anything. But we should want the big east if for nothing else it might help us keep Archie for longer.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Well, okay, but then this is a Men's Basketball discussion board, therefore, I really don't find multiple threads discussing same or similar issues, to be all that alarming. I don't completely buy the idea that a middling Big East standings finish, recruits much differently than be a top two or three A10 team. If that was so obviously true, then many of our recruits could simply have stayed in Chicago and played for DePaul. Or, they could have attended the bottom feeders of just about every power five conference school. One of the differences I have with many of you on this board...go figure right?, Is that I don't have the same perspective on what makes a good recruit as many of you do. In other words, I could care less about a guys 0% body fat, if he is from an inner city high school, if he has a 40 inch vertical, or any other sociological variable...means virtually nothing. If having a 40 inch vertical or 0% body fat, meant you could play basketball, then Brian Gregory would still be the head coach at UD, let alone Georgia Tech,...crazy premises. My only question about a recruit, is can they play college basketball and graduate; their NBA potential is not a concern of mine. Just because you have a so called athletic physique doesn't necessarily mean you can "walk and chew gum" at the same time. If Dayton had been in the big east the last three years, they wouldn't been in the NCAA four years in a row, and they for sure, would have about the same average of talent on the squad. Now 5 to ten years of being in the Big East could change that, but not that the last and first three years of the big east. The current seniors were already long recruited before the big east implosion. And Baby D was, virtually the only Junior, likely already on the radar, if not letter of intent. And would you say Dayton doesn't want Charles Cooke or Josh Cunningham?? I doubt every player in the big east is better than either of them. They could both play for just about every Big East Squad. I could really run this up the flag pole. I would embrace a Big East membership if UD went in that direction, but in no way do I see it as the panacea that many prescribe to. If we go, then you better make it work; if you stay A10, then you got to make that work. And for many years, prior to the departure of XU, Temple, Butler, and Charlotte; UD did a lot things within the A10, but consistently competing at the top was definitely not one of those things. Make of it what you will; but I see it as no coincidence.

Re recruiting, in my opinion, what matters to HS kids is as follows:

1. The cream of the crop kids have one thing in mind, for the most part,....the best pathway to the NBA. UD doesn't compete for those kids. Nonetheless, having poster-size photos around of UD players who play(ed) in the NBA has to be a plus factor. It shows you can play for Dayton and get to he NBA.

2. Facilities....really nice facilities for games, practice, everything. Both kids and parents are impressed by what they see. UD is in great shape on this score.

3. The big-time game atmosphere. Does anyone have it better than Dayton in this regard? I don't think so.

4. The coach: Of course, some coaches are really great recruiters. Our last two coaches were able to recruit good players.

5. The campus atmosphere and graduation mean something to certain kids and their parents. UD is in good shape here as well.

It's possible, but will always be very tough and unlikely for UD to consistently be a Top 10 team. But, Top 25? Definitely, in my opinion. And that means the Dance most of the time.

Everything opinion.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Bucketnight]

The turnover of the roster would probably be pretty quick if we had been invited or are invited in the future. The transfer number outbound would be impacted by the quality of players coming in. There are plenty of kids who would rather play in the A10 than sit at a mid level or lower BE team.

That opens the door for more incoming freshman recruits and transfers (5th year or otherwise).

[jack72]

I will add winning program and reputation. Nothing helps reputation like being B5 or BE.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Bucketnight, yes, but the issue was whether or not UD talent level would plus or minus to any great extent due to being in the first three years of the current new big east? Clearly, the answer is likely not enough different to really argue it.

Flyer95, you sound like you could host a post game call in show. Furthermore, I would suggest that any university that makes a conference move based on pleasing a sports coach, is a very badly managed university. There is such a plethora of blow-up factors that anyone who made a decision based on that issue, should be fired for incompetence immediately. I appreciate your post, but I would have stop being a UD ticket holder if I thought they moved to a new conference for the purpose of keeping a single coach, player, or administrator. Not a good idea! That would be reckless management if there ever was any reckless management.

[Beatty Town Coach]

To be clear, NIT or not, Dayton repeatedly finished in the middle of the A10 pack under Brian Gregory. And, no high school player cares if Oliver Purnell coached UD to 20 win NIT season, or a first round NCAA loss to Purdue 18 years ago. That's like saying they would be impressed because Don May made thirteen filed-goals in a row in the 1960's.

Clue: They don't care about that. They don't even know about it.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[SeasonTicketFan]

UD would join the Big East is a split second. The challenge would staying competitive.

With Archie as coach, that is possible. He proved he can develop players. Archie would be able to recruit higher rated talent. The current talent is good, but he has gambled a lot and used transfers in a big way.

Archie would have a realistic shot to go to the Final Four and or win it all if that happened. Villanova did it.

UD was ill prepared in many ways to join the Great Midwest. With Archie, investment in the program that has been made and administration, the university is in a much better position to elevate and be competitive.

[Flyer'95]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Flyer95, you sound like you could host a post game call in show. Furthermore, I would suggest that any university that makes a conference move based on pleasing a sports coach, is a very badly managed university. There is such a plethora of blow-up factors that anyone who made a decision based on that issue, should be fired for incompetence immediately. I appreciate your post, but I would have stop being a UD ticket holder if I thought they moved to a new conference for the purpose of keeping a single coach, player, or administrator. Not a good idea! That would be reckless management if there ever was any reckless management.

Beatty Town, perhaps it was too difficult to pick up in my post. But keeping Archie for longer would be the gravy in terms of moving to the Big East. Of course we wouldn't follow some coach's wishes to move UD to the sun belt conference.

Being a big east member would finally allow us to be in a fair fight with all those big east schools. I think UD's atmosphere and facilities would compare pretty favorably to the likes of georgetown, seton hall, depaul, villanova and several others in that conference. Not to mention being comparable to the top tier of that league like xu/marquette/providence who have better facilities. Level the playing field like that, plus keep an amazing coach along the way, and suddenly a lot more top tier kids would give Dayton a fair shake. There's no denying that.

Granted, staying in the A10 and being a big fish is tempting. But what happens if a VCU or Richmond, SLU, URI start to move on? It starts to resemble a one bid league. And staying here isn't exactly a guarantee of keeping archie either. The big east has tons of advantages, plus the added advantage of more likely keeping our coach for longer.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 Beatty Town, perhaps it was too difficult to pick up in my post. But keeping Archie for longer would be the gravy in terms of moving to the Big East. Of course we wouldn't follow some coach's wishes to move UD to the sun belt conference. Being a big east member would finally allow us to be in a fair fight with all those big east schools. I think UD's atmosphere and facilities would compare pretty favorably to the likes of georgetown, seton hall, depaul, villanova and several others in that conference. Not to mention being comparable to the top tier of that league like xu/marquette/providence who have better facilities. Level the playing field like that, plus keep an amazing coach along the way, and suddenly a lot more top tier kids would give Dayton a fair shake. There's no denying that. Granted, staying in the A10 and being a big fish is tempting. But what happens if a VCU or Richmond, SLU, URI start to move on? It starts to resemble a one bid league. And staying here isn't exactly a guarantee of keeping archie either. The big east has tons of advantages, plus the added advantage of more likely keeping our coach for longer.

Several takes on this.

1. I agree that the BE is great
2. They may not want us
3. That is OK, the A10 is not bad
4. We seem to be doing OK with 4 straight bids
5. Still, the BE would be great.
6. May help us keep AM.
7. Better recruits, too.
8. Yes, I am commenting on the BE again
9. I didnt start the thread
10. Sue me.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Flyer'95]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach To be clear, NIT or not, Dayton repeatedly finished in the middle of the A10 pack under Brian Gregory. And, no high school player cares if Oliver Purnell coached UD to 20 win NIT season, or a first round NCAA loss to Purdue 18 years ago. That's like saying they would be impressed because Don May made thirteen filed-goals in a row in the 1960's. Clue: They don't care about that. They don't even know about it.

Beatty, i'm beginning to see that reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours.

When i spoke of sustained success, it wasn't through the eyes of a recruit. It was a consideration that someone above had listed as a requirement in order for a CONFERENCE like the Big East to be interested in having us join.

In comparison, Creighton had won 2 NCAA games in the prior 20 years before being invited to the big east. They had a fan base. They had facilities and a great, winning program. But they weren't worldbeaters on the biggest stage. But they had a new media market. Their invite was not necessarily just about 'sustained success'.

They also happened to be Jesuit, which gives credence to the personal aspect of the invites that i was talking about.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 If we're talking about sustained success over time, Dayton has been a 20+ win team 15 out of the last 20 years. We've gone to the NCAA's 8 times in that span, going on 9. And winning 6 games. We've been to the NIT 7 times (with 11 wins). Sustained success is not the reason we have not been invited. There is a media element to this, and perhaps as many have stated, a personal element to this.

Not so sure about this. Dayton won one NCAA tournament game in the 30 years prior to the formation of the NBE. Most of the NBE teams stopped playing UD years ago. The NIT is not a great indicator of sustained success and, as others have mentioned, Dayton did not exactly dominate the A 10 in that time period. Notably, the recent success under Archie did not take off until after the NBE was formed. In fact, it happened almost simultaneously.

Regarding the Jesuit conspiracy, I admittedly do not know much about the specifics and history of Jesuits vs. Marianists or whatever it is. But, the weakness in this theory is Butler. They are not Jesuit, not Marianist, not even Catholic, and not a particularly great school (not bad, but below UD in the national rankings). They had no real history with the current NBE teams (although they do have a good tradition just like basically every school in Indiana). Their arena, while historic and interesting, is not particularly nice. They jumped from the Horizon League to the NBE in a matter of a few years. How? Back to back NCAA championship appearances and a clear commitment to basketball certainly didn't hurt.

Regarding a personal element, that is possible. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and it's possible that the UD administration did/does not have good relations or connections with the NBE schools, despite that we have a significant history with some of them.

Regarding TV/media markets, that is another topic that has been endlessly discussed and I am not particularly an expert. That is surely a factor, but not sure I buy that the Butler/Indianapolis market, for instance, is that much bigger than Dayton. Do more people in Indy watch the Big East because of Butler than people in Dayton watch the Flyers? I don't know. Do more people in Chicago watch DePaul than people in Dayton watch the Flyers? Seems unlikely. Dayton is a college basketball town if there ever was one.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 Not to mention being comparable to the top tier of that league like xu/marquette/providence who have better facilities.

I'm not sure if I am reading this correctly but Providence does not have close to the facilities we have.

[TXFlyerFan]

I'll say this much...I highly doubt that any kid sits around thinking about how many regular season wins a team/coach has. What they want is to play in the big dance, every single year, because that's where you get your biggest exposure on the biggest stage. And the more you win in that big dance, the bigger/brighter the exposure.

So, get in the NCAA tournament every year, start making the sweet 16 with regularity, and you'll get all the talented recruits you need to sustain it.

[oRed]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I'm not sure if I am reading this correctly but Providence does not have close to the facilities we have.

I'm not sure I read it correctly either, Xavier has better facilities than UD? Cintas is a small lNutter Center. Marquette ? They don't have their own facilities.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Hence, they stepped up the efforts big-time by upping Archie's salary, providing all necessary resources, etc.

I do get extremely confused at how UD has the money to afford to keep increasing Archie's compensation package, but they do not have the money to go to a 15 home game/15 away/neutral game setup or fix/replace/remove the non-operating video boards inside the arena or fix/replace/remove the big non-operating 3 panel sign outside the arena by I75 at the baseball field.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by ud2 I do get extremely confused at how UD has the money to afford to keep increasing Archie's compensation package, but they do not have the money to go to a 15 home game/15 away/neutral game setup or fix/replace/remove the non-operating video boards inside the arena or fix/replace/remove the big non-operating 3 panel sign outside by I75 at the baseball field.

Good lord, here we go again

[C-time]

Originally Posted by ud2 I do get extremely confused at how UD has the money to afford to keep increasing Archie's compensation package, but they do not have the money to go to a 15 home game/15 away/neutral game setup or fix/replace/remove the non-operating video boards inside the arena or fix/replace/remove the big non-operating 3 panel sign outside the arena by I75 at the baseball field.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Beatty Town Coach]

UD was in a conference with many great basketball schools in the Great Midwest, and then again when they first joined the A10. Those were both level playing fields; and unfortunately, UD rarely competed at or near the top of either conference; until, that is, the departure of several best programs, coupled with a down cycle in the A10 in recent seasons. UD had plenty of level playing field opportunities, but did not win the middling road games, or ever break through at Xavier, etc. The program was crippled with "Road Loss Syndrome". That lead to a plethora of missed NCAA TOURNAMENT BIDS.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FlyerGuyer]

LOL! Love ud2.

[Gazoo]

Consider: Dayton is just that much smarter than every other school that is rolling in $. We know we're better off in a lesser conference so we should stay there.

And now that we've proven that out, we should expect to see Butler, _avier, Minnesota, Boston College, etc. to crowd into the A10 and similar conferences. Because they're just so much better off there. Does it work in reverse? (I know, football, but you get the point)

Or, maybe we just had a horrific coach in the last major conference we were in (Great Midwest Conference) and a series of just OK coaches when the A10 was stronger (Gregory, Purnell). Maybe there's no reason to think we could not compete in the BE.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[UDTradition]

UD haters must love this thread.

[FlyerBob]

When expansion occurs, I think they go to 12. Us and UCONN make a nice balanced package.

[Class of 73 Alum]

Originally Posted by Nashville_Flyer If you want Dayton in the Big East, I'd be rooting hard for Marquette and Seton Hall to miss the tournament this year. This has been a very good year for the Big East, and I'd think it would be a disappointment if only 4 teams got in. It's a down year for the Big 10 and they could get 6 or 7 in, and of course the ACC is looking at 10 or so. Having 14 or so above-average to great programs in a conference obviously can make a big difference in this regard. Not that this would get Dayton in the Big East, but a few years of fewer-than-expected tournament teams couldn't hurt.

Don't understand the logic that SHU and MU missing the tournament this year helps UD's chances for BE entry. What I do know is that I trust that Neil Sullivan will work tirelessly to make it happen. If there is a way in, and I'm not sure there is, Neil is the guy I want looking for the pathway.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by FlyerBob When expansion occurs, I think they go to 12. Us and UCONN make a nice balanced package.

If they went to 12 it be UCONN and SLU Jesuit stick together.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by ud2 I do get extremely confused at how UD has the money to afford to keep increasing Archie's compensation package, but they do not have the money to go to a 15 home game/15 away/neutral game setup or fix/replace/remove the non-operating video boards inside the arena or fix/replace/remove the big non-operating 3 panel sign outside the arena by I75 at the baseball field.

You could have just stopped after typing the fifth word.

Nonetheless.

Isn't it possible that it's not that UD has the money to increase Archie's compensation package, but rather, the compensation comes from big donors, which can't be accounted for in the same way as ticket sales into the athletic department's budget?

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer If they went to 12 it be UCONN and SLU Jesuit stick together.

While I agree with you about the "Jesuit University Mafia" wanting to take care of their "family", that would mean SLU is really "gaining steam" after Tuesday night's contest.

Don't get me wrong about SLU's future prospects. I think Ford is the kind of coach who can turn that program into a consistent upper echelon A-10 team. And, by the 2018-19 season, I think they'll be there. But that's one more reason why I don't think the NBE will expand for at least another year or 2. When it got reformulated after the departures of Pitt, Syracuse, UofL, etc., it took schools that were either "no-brainers" (X, an established NCAA Tourney regular, and a Jesuit institution) or programs that were on an uptick (Butler, Creighton). Right now, SLU is neither. And frankly, given the Jesuit Mafia, I don't see them taking UD without taking SLU, and at the present time, it makes no sense for them to take SLU.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UdGrad2009]

Personally I cringed yesterday when I saw this story break. I hope I am wrong but to me If they add UCONN it seems from all articles the Big East will stay at 11 and go to a 20 game conference schedule. I think that league at 11 would satisfy all Fox could ask for expansion wise and they would be set until some huge realignment occurs. So if UCONN goes to the Big East I think it ends any chance UD has for several years.

Another side note, if that happened it lowers the Big East teams to 10 OOC games a season. The ACC is set to do this as well, which hurts UD's chances at getting better OOC games.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Medford]

If UConn were willing to go basketball only in the Big East, would the ACC consider adding them as a basketball only team and move up to 16 teams on the basketball side? Is it possible that is UConn's end game if they can't get football to where they want it?

[Medford]

Originally Posted by xubrew Yes, and that's not smart. This isn't opinion. It's actual mathematical fact. This will hurt the Big East overtime. It's a mistake. They send five and six teams to the tournament as it is, which is a higher percentage than all other power conferences except for the Big Twelve, and last year one of them one the national title. Maybe things are fine?? Just maybe??

Do you mind explaining this Brew? Why would playing everyone twice in an 18 game , 10 team conference schedule be mathematically better than playing everyone once in an 18 game, 19 team conference schedule? Why does playing everyone twice a better thing, mathematically? I get that playing Nova twice when they are really, really good is better for the SOS, but isn't playing DePaul twice when they are really, really bad bad for the SOS? Isn't the most important thing the quality of the collection of teams in the conference in any given season?

TIA.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 You could have just stopped after typing the fifth word. Nonetheless. Isn't it possible that it's not that UD has the money to increase Archie's compensation package, but rather, the compensation comes from big donors, which can't be accounted for in the same way as ticket sales into the athletic department's budget?

Agree...but it can't cost that much to just fix the other 2 outside panels and just remove the video boards from inside the arena.

The non-operating panels just look really bad and scream to the world "we don't care about our image" IMO. Those panels are very visible as you drive by on I75. It gives off the impression of a shoddy, low-budget operation.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Medford Do you mind explaining this Brew? Why would playing everyone twice in an 18 game , 10 team conference schedule be mathematically better than playing everyone once in an 18 game, 19 team conference schedule? Why does playing everyone twice a better thing, mathematically? I get that playing Nova twice when they are really, really good is better for the SOS, but isn't playing DePaul twice when they are really, really bad bad for the SOS? Isn't the most important thing the quality of the collection of teams in the conference in any given season? TIA.

By going to 20 game schedule, you are guaranteeing more losses to teams in the league, thus hurting the conference overall. With more OOC games, those games are not guaranteed losses. Now granted, not every BE team is going to win everyone of those 2 extra OOC games, but there is at least the chance this happens. More Conference games = more losses to teams in the league.

[Medford]

^

I misread Brew's post, I see what he's saying now that I read it more carefully

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 By going to 20 game schedule, you are guaranteeing more losses to teams in the league, thus hurting the conference overall. With more OOC games, those games are not guaranteed losses. Now granted, not every BE team is going to win everyone of those 2 extra OOC games, but there is at least the chance this happens. More Conference games = more losses to teams in the league.

Wouldn't it also be two more guaranteed wins. If one loses then the other wins.

[Nashville_Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Agree...but it can't cost that much to just fix the other 2 outside panels and just remove the video boards from inside the arena. The non-operating panels just look really bad and scream to the world "we don't care about our image" IMO. Those panels are very visible as you drive by on I75. It gives off the impression of a shoddy, low-budget operation.

I can only assume they aren't "wasting" any money at all on upgrades until they do the major renovation in the next year or two or three. Maybe they'll fix or change that outside message board at the same time.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Nashville_Flyer I can only assume they aren't "wasting" any money at all on upgrades until they do the major renovation in the next year or two or three. Maybe they'll fix or change that outside message board at the same time.

That makes sense.

The outside panels have been that way for a while now though. I just want the outside panels fixed so that all the traffic driving by on I75 see a functioning sign that gives off a good impression. Those panels are visible 24/7/365 to millions of people.

The video boards IMO are a lower priority item, only people inside the arena see those.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Wouldn't it also be two more guaranteed wins. If one loses then the other wins.

With 2 more BE games half the conference will get 2 more wins, half could get 2 more losses. If they had 2 more OOC games its possible the entire conference gets 2 more wins.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 With 2 more BE games half the conference will get 2 more wins, half could get 2 more losses. If they had 2 more OOC games its possible the entire conference gets 2 more wins.

If the BE teams are using the same sort of metric UD uses to schedule, it may be impossible to find 2 more D1 opponents with decent projected RPI's...meaning they may be forced to add D2 opponents. In that case, they are better off playing each other, aren't they? (Figgie...?)

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by FlyerBob When expansion occurs, I think they go to 12. Us and UCONN make a nice balanced package.

A match made in heaven. Us and UCONN. They could reference the pair in alphabetic order : UCONN and UDAY

The added bonus for UDAY would be the link to those Bengal fans with the WHO-DAY - UDAY!

[Bucketnight]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Bucketnight, yes, but the issue was whether or not UD talent level would plus or minus to any great extent due to being in the first three years of the current new big east? Clearly, the answer is likely not enough different to really argue it. Flyer95, you sound like you could host a post game call in show. Furthermore, I would suggest that any university that makes a conference move based on pleasing a sports coach, is a very badly managed university. There is such a plethora of blow-up factors that anyone who made a decision based on that issue, should be fired for incompetence immediately. I appreciate your post, but I would have stop being a UD ticket holder if I thought they moved to a new conference for the purpose of keeping a single coach, player, or administrator. Not a good idea! That would be reckless management if there ever was any reckless management.

I think our opinions differ only slightly. We have been able to attract higher level transfers in JL, CC, JS. I think there would be the potential to attract more than 1 at a time which could speed the transition. Allowing for attracting a slightly higher level of recruit as well again speeding the transition... a little.

I think where we may differ is that in our current annual ranking being somewhere outside of the Top 25 with short guest appearances, a small incremental difference could land us as a team that remains a fixture within the bottom portion for the year 2 and 3. I absolutely agree that becoming a fixture, if it were to occur, would take longer.

I just don't think there is much separation between us and the lower portion of the ranked teams and a small positive impact could put us in a position (regularly ranked) that provides us more exposure and a stepping stone to continue that growth.

[CoffeeCan]

1. If the BE approached UD and wanted us to join, would we?
2. Do we owe anything to the other A10 schools to stay in the A10?
3. If the BE does not come knocking, would it benefit us to vacate the A10 and reform with 9 other schools, some from the A10, to try to form a more competitive conference?
4. If we were to get into the BE, or a more competitive league, does that improve the likelihood of AM sticking around longer?

[Medford]

1) yes
2) no
3) not likely worth the risk, there is more to conference affiliation than sports, the administration likes having ties to the east coast and population centers.
4) can't hurt.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan 1. If the BE approached UD and wanted us to join, would we? 2. Do we owe anything to the other A10 schools to stay in the A10? 3. If the BE does not come knocking, would it benefit us to vacate the A10 and reform with 9 other schools, some from the A10, to try to form a more competitive conference? 4. If we were to get into the BE, or a more competitive league, does that improve the likelihood of AM sticking around longer?

1) Yes
2) No
3) Maybe, but incredibly unlikely
4) Probably

[Beatty Town Coach]

Is it too late for Dayton to join the ACC?

[Swampy Meadows]

Coffeecan:

In terms of (2) we don't 'owe' the other 13 A-10 schools anything to stay but we would owe them their share of our NCAA winnings which I believe are paid out over six years.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UDTradition]

Originally Posted by priceg75 That's good, because we are not getting into the Big East. They'll take St. Louis before they take us, because of the media market.

Impossible, until SU establishes some sort of winning history.

[TerryK_67]

you seem to be missing the obvious.... the reason SLU will be the 11th team in the new Big Least begins with J and ends with t.... no brainer!

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UDTradition]

Butler?

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by UDTradition Butler?

Creighton

[Gazoo]

Again, if being in a lesser conference is such a doggone good idea, why aren't other schools downgrading their conference?

Because it's a bad idea.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Again, if being in a lesser conference is such a doggone good idea, why aren't other schools downgrading their conference? Because it's a bad idea.

I've never bought that logic either Gazoo. Gonzaga, Wichita St., etc would move to a better conference in a heartbeat if the opportunity presented itself. So would we.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 you seem to be missing the obvious.... the reason SLU will be the 11th team in the new Big Least begins with J and ends with t.... no brainer!

Jesuit

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Creighton

Originally Posted by Sea Bass Jesuit

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 you seem to be missing the obvious.... the reason SLU will be the 11th team in the new Big Least begins with J and ends with t.... no brainer!

Can we please stop with the Creighton/Jesuit conspiracy theories? It is beneath us. About half of the BE is non-Jesuit.

You guys act like CU is just some ragamuffin program. They aren't.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Medford If UConn were willing to go basketball only in the Big East, would the ACC consider adding them as a basketball only team and move up to 16 teams on the basketball side? Is it possible that is UConn's end game if they can't get football to where they want it?

A few things...

For starters, it's my understanding that the person who reported this really isn't liked by too many people at UConn, so the idea that they would have leaked this to him as a favor doesn't seem plausible. So, I'm thinking that he either has bad information that he got from someone who may be loosely affiliated but really doesn't know anything, or he's completely misinterpreting whatever information he does have and is jumping to a conclusion that is completely wrong.

I'm under the impression that no one that's actually important at UConn has any interest whatsoever in joining the Big East. And if you think about it, why would they??

They play FBS football and have made it abundantly clear that they want to continue doing so. The Big East is not an FBS conference. They could go independent in football, but that would mean walking away from the TV revenue that the AAC gets, as well as the CFP revenue. The Group of Five gets a share of that, and the American's share is close to $2 million a year. Independent teams get nothing. So, when you add the CFP revenue and the TV revenue together that's close to $4 million a year that they're walking away from in order to join the Big East. There is no way that any sensible person would think that is a good idea.

They could join the MAC as an affiliate member, but again, it would be as an affiliate and not a full member, and that probably means only a fraction of the revenue sharing. It also means that they would be playing four games in men's and women's basketball every year as part of a home and home with MAC schools. I cannot imagine UConn being all that excited to do that. Less money, and four MAC games a year. Umm....no

Or, they could remain an affiliate in the AAC. But as great as UConn's football program is :/ I cannot foresee them agreeing to remain as an affiliate member football and take a share of the revenue if the men's and women's basketball teams are not going to play in the league. Navy is an affiliate member. That makes sense. UConn football as an affiliate football member but not as a basketball member makes no sense at all. There are ten other AAC schools. It's likely that all ten would refuse to agree to that.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ud2 Can we please stop with the Creighton/Jesuit conspiracy theories? It is beneath us. About half of the BE is non-Jesuit. You guys act like CU is just some ragamuffin program. They aren't.

Do you think the Creighton President being on the Marquette Board of Trustees had anything to do with it?

[xubrew]

One more thing...

Someone mentioned the ACC. I think that's UConn's ultimate goal. I also think the reason it didn't happen last time was because of Boston College. Those two have a rather amusing history of stabbing each other in the back, at least when it comes to the administrators, and partly out of spite I think BC just wanted to shut them out.

But, over time things change and people change. The current ADs at BC and UConn are different people now, and they're actually friends. They're resuming the football series, which a couple of years ago seemed impossible. The door to the ACC isn't closed anymore, and may open for them some day.

So, if that's the ultimate goal, which I think that it is, how would going to the Big East help them accomplish that any faster?? It wouldn't from what I can tell. it's a hassle of red tape and exit fees and all that good stuff. So, why do it if you can get to where you want to be just as quickly by staying where you are??

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by xubrew But as great as UConn's football program is :/

3-9, 6-7, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, and 5-7 is great?

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Do you think the Creighton President being on the Marquette Board of Trustees had anything to do with it?

No, of course not. Just a coincidence.

[jack72]

ACC probably somewhat regrets taking Boston College, since they have been poor in football and basketball, so no, they will not take UConn.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by longtimefan 3-9, 6-7, 2-10, 3-9, 5-7, and 5-7 is great?

No. Your sarcasm radar needs a tuneup.

Look at that sentence again, and notice the :/

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by xubrew No. Your sarcasm radar needs a tuneup. Look at that sentence again, and notice the :/

I'm old. How am I supposed to know what that crap means.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by xubrew They could join the MAC as an affiliate member, but again, it would be as an affiliate and not a full member, and that probably means only a fraction of the revenue sharing. It also means that they would be playing four games in men's and women's basketball every year as part of a home and home with MAC schools. I cannot imagine UConn being all that excited to do that. Less money, and four MAC games a year. Umm....no

The MAC is done taking affiliate members for football unless it is a huge upgrade or that team is looking to join full-time. They had UMass as an affiliate member, but when they wouldn't join with the rest of their sports, the MAC booted them. UConn football= UMass football.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I'm old. How am I supposed to know what that crap means.

Cant' say I'm a fan of it either.

If you turn your head sideways, it is supposed to look like a pair of eyes and a smirk. :/