Good win against St B

[TXFlyerFan]

Any win is a good win. I was sweating this one out. St. Bonaventure just seems to play well at UD and Dayton got off to a horrendously bad start. Turnovers and missed shots and next thing you know you're down 15. Nice run late in the first half to make it manageable.

Great start to the second half. Couldn't seem to stop Adams and fortunately, the Bonnies took some ill-advised shots but we never could really put them away.

Scooch hitting the free throws down the stretch was huge and frankly, the last two by Davis seemed to be a requirement to win the game.

I don't think KD fouled on that last 3 pointer but heck, after being called on it a few seconds earlier, you'd think he would be more careful.

No PT for Miller? Don't recall seeing him in the game at all.

Still, happy for a win.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[sheg]

I've never seen so much contact initiated by the offense yet called on the defense. Posley, the one on Mikesell, the late one on Pollard. At least.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Its was scary. I about pooped my pants when they went down 15. Once they got it to 6 at the half i knew the Bonnies were done. We are a 2nd half team, we are loaded with experience and i bet Archie peeled paint in the locker room at the half.

Three words describe every,single win the rest of the way:

We won. Next!

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by sheg I've never seen so much contact initiated by the offense yet called on the defense. Posley, the one on Mikesell, the late one on Pollard. At least.

Do you mean Mobley? Mikesell's left arm was not straight up and down on that play. It was a foul. Not exactly sure which one on Pollard you're talking though.

[jack72]

More impressive than Adams shooting was his 15-17 on free throws. He is one heck of a player, maybe the best in the A10.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I don't think KD fouled on that last 3 pointer but heck, after being called on it a few seconds earlier, you'd think he would be more careful.

I agree and I think he actually tipped the shot, which even if there was contact with the body or legs, should have been a moot point.

[FLYER5]

Worst officiated game I've ever seen. Bet they swallow the whistle in two weeks vs VCU. The make-up calls were obvious but too few. On another front I told my cousin this would've been a trap game with a dismal ending under a previous....hc.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Worst officiated game I've ever seen. Bet they swallow the whistle next Saturday. The make-up calls were obvious but too few. On another front I told my cousin this would've been a trap game with a dismal ending under a previous....hc.

The trap game is next Friday. I have a bad feeling about Davidson, I always have a bad feeling about Davidson. Especially at their place.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 The trap game is next Friday. I have a bad feeling about Davidson, I always have a bad feeling about Davidson. Especially at their place.

Sorry, i meant in two weeks against VCU. Duh. Youre right it could be tough. The venue and the program's penchant for shooting the 3-ball is there. But, I can also see another day at the office for Archie and the boys. I hope.

[flyhi524]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan No PT for Miller? Don't recall seeing him in the game at all.

Miller's play today was a HUGE reason we were able to pull this one off today. Hope to see more contributions like today in the future!

[C-time]

If you guys think the refs were bad you should read the opinions of the fans over on the Bona Bandwagon. A couple people have even suggested the conference is telling the refs to give VCU/UD calls and screw over Bona.

http://bonabandwagon.proboards.com/t...-thread?page=8

I'm not sure if you all watched the game in person, but from my viewpoint on my couch with the benefit of replay they didn't seem all that bad.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[Sea Bass]

The main reason I want out of the A10 is the officiating. There is game the first 30 and then they call every foul seen and unseen the last 10 minutes

[Sea Bass]

there was no contact on those three except the guy kicking out his leg. should have been offensive fouls. Kendall went straight up, not supposed to be a foul

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by C-time If you guys think the refs were bad you should read the opinions of the fans over on the Bona Bandwagon. A couple people have even suggested the conference is telling the refs to give VCU/UD calls and screw over Bona. http://bonabandwagon.proboards.com/t...-thread?page=8 I'm not sure if you all watched the game in person, but from my viewpoint on my couch with the benefit of replay they didn't seem all that bad.

I agree 100% on the refs. I thought they called a fairly good game from my couch. I thought both of KD's fouls on the 3 point shooter were the correct call. Same with the foul mentioned about on Mikesell. If anything KP should have been called for a T when the Bonnies player was. He clearly shoved the Bonnies player on the replay.

As for the game, good hard fought win. Nice to see us fight back after a horrible start. Let's move to the next one and get another W.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by C-time If you guys think the refs were bad you should read the opinions of the fans over on the Bona Bandwagon. A couple people have even suggested the conference is telling the refs to give VCU/UD calls and screw over Bona. http://bonabandwagon.proboards.com/t...-thread?page=8 I'm not sure if you all watched the game in person, but from my viewpoint on my couch with the benefit of replay they didn't seem all that bad.

I go to the opponents board every time we win and I can tell you right now, we wouldn't have more than 3 or 4 conference wins if it wasn't for the Refs.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[priceg75]

It's ridiculous the calls Adams gets. Reminds me of the Tu Holloway Xavier years... Just drive into the lane blindly and they'll bail you out every time.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

I saw the worst calls today that I have ever seen in a hoop game.
The worst.....about 17:00 mark of second half. KP driving to hoop on right side of lane,
defender body slams him - no call. Ball went out of bounds, fortunately off of St B player.
My interpretation of today's refs......I have NEVER seen any of these 3 and I watch a lot of games on TV over last 60 years and have UD season tics.....this was their biggest "stage" in their referee career and all three wanted to be the show.
Nice win Flyers......great comeback fro 16 down in first half.
NOTE: I sit in corner sec 211. The PA sound for today's HOF introductions was terrible.
Figuratively speaking I could not understand 10% of what Larry Hansgon said. Too bad.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 NOTE: I sit in corner sec 211. The PA sound for today's HOF introductions was terrible. Figuratively speaking I could not understand 10% of what Larry Hansgon said. Too bad.

That's inexcusable. The Flyers best player since the mid 1980s gets inducted into the HOF should go off without a hitch.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass The main reason I want out of the A10 is the officiating. There is game the first 30 and then they call every foul seen and unseen the last 10 minutes

Do you realize there is no such thing as A-10 officials? The A-10, Big East, ACC, MAAC, and at least a couple other conferences draw from the same pool of officials. If you watch enough games from those conferences you will see the same guys and every single game is different. The only person you won't see calling those games is King Rollo because he is too busy calling games between Bellbrook and Waynesville.

[longtimefan]

They also missed the play where the St Bonnie guy grabbed/hung on the rim while we were shooting. Those guys were blind.

[FLYER5]

Fellas, I'm telling you the refs were booed like there might be a guillotine waiting outside for them. One ref in particular blew the whistle every timed a guy feined contact. Also there was no whistle when the skirmish happened with the 'held ball' They just stood there and let 'em fight for it. Lot of booing was for the Bonnie player in that skirmish but it was pretty loud in disfavor of the calls, or lack there of. Jmo. Oh, and around 7000 or so others.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Fellas, I'm telling you the refs were booed like there might be a guillotine waiting outside for them. One ref in particular blew the whistle every timed a guy feined contact. Also there was no whistle when the skirmish happened with the 'held ball' They just stood there and let 'em fight for it. Lot of booing was for the Bonnie player in that skirmish but it was pretty loud in disfavor of the calls, or lack there of. Jmo. Oh, and around 7000 or so others.

Just so glad this game is behind us. After what happened with SBU against VCU last week, I was afraid that the Refs might over compensate them at our expense.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by longtimefan They also missed the play where the St Bonnie guy grabbed/hung on the rim while we were shooting. Those guys were blind.

I will agree with that. They absolutely missed that call.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by C-time I will agree with that. They absolutely missed that call.

How could they miss that one, I could hear the clang loud an clear over my TV speakers.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 How could they miss that one, I could hear the clang loud an clear over my TV speakers.

The underneath official was most likely looking for contact on the driver so it's not really his call. The ball side official may have been shielded from seeing him grab the rim when he swung his arm to block the shot. The backside and farthest official from the play probably just missed. Ref Rollo can probably better explain who should have saw it.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Fellas, I'm telling you the refs were booed like there might be a guillotine waiting outside for them. One ref in particular blew the whistle every timed a guy feined contact. Also there was no whistle when the skirmish happened with the 'held ball' They just stood there and let 'em fight for it. Lot of booing was for the Bonnie player in that skirmish but it was pretty loud in disfavor of the calls, or lack there of. Jmo. Oh, and around 7000 or so others.

I believe that ref is Nathan Farrell who is terrible. He also did our game against UMass and called anything that even resembled contact that night too. I've seen him on other games on TV as well and he's been terrible every time.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Fellas, I'm telling you the refs were booed like there might be a guillotine waiting outside for them. One ref in particular blew the whistle every timed a guy feined contact. Also there was no whistle when the skirmish happened with the 'held ball' They just stood there and let 'em fight for it. Lot of booing was for the Bonnie player in that skirmish but it was pretty loud in disfavor of the calls, or lack there of. Jmo. Oh, and around 7000 or so others.

If you watch the replay, they called a T on the skirmish right away. Trust me they showed it probably 20 times on tv while replaying the play.

[FLYER5]

Looked like they let it escalate into a scrum before the whistle was blown on the technical.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Looked like they let it escalate into a scrum before the whistle was blown on the technical.

The refs jumped right in and told the players to relax and the players didn't. The TV guys did the refs no favors tonight either. They were speculating as if the refs had told them something when they were just giving their opinion of what happened. They were relaying info that was complete conjecture.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by C-time Ref Rollo can probably better explain who should have saw it.

I didn't see it...was reffing myself (not Bellbrook/Waynesville). If I see a replay I'll comment.

[FLYER5]

Ok, well I was slightly shielded by one ref but it looked to me liked the refs assumed the players would stop on their own. That's how it appeared from my vantage point. I didn't hear the whistle and another person behind me said the same. I saw them waving their arms to signify stoppage but I assumed the players on the floor didn't see and did not hear the whistle.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Worst officiated game I've ever seen. Bet they swallow the whistle in two weeks vs VCU. The make-up calls were obvious but too few. On another front I told my cousin this would've been a trap game with a dismal ending under a previous....hc.

My 2 cents...when was the last time you saw a crew miss a goal tending call?

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by C-time They were speculating as if the refs had told them something when they were just giving their opinion of what happened. They were relaying info that was complete conjecture.

I heard/notice this as well. On TV although you couldn't make out exactly what the ref was telling the commentator, you could hear the ref explaining to the commentator what they looked at and decided to call. When the commentator announced what he claimed the ref told him it didn't seem to be accurate. This happened a few times as it was bizarre.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Ready Action I heard/notice this as well. On TV although you couldn't make out exactly what the ref was telling the commentator, you could hear the ref explaining to the commentator what they looked at and decided to call. When the commentator announced what he claimed the ref told him it didn't seem to be accurate. This happened a few times as it was bizarre.

Alternative facts?
Posted via Mobile Device

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Ok, well I was slightly shielded by one ref but it looked to me liked the refs assumed the players would stop on their own. That's how it appeared from my vantage point. I didn't hear the whistle and another person behind me said the same. I saw them waving their arms to signify stoppage but I assumed the players on the floor didn't see and did not hear the whistle.

I was on the Arena concourse, working my way back to my seat. From that vantage point, it looked like they had called "Held Ball", and were waiting for the 2 players (Cooke and the St. Bonnie dude) to let go of the ball on their own. When neither player gave in, and the stripes didn't step in, is when tempers flared. And I recall yelling "See? You let stuff go, and this is what happens!", with the "stuff" being the tussle for the ball, even after the whistle blew. My problem was with how they took their sweet, old time going in to get the ball once the play had been blown dead.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by jack72 More impressive than Adams shooting was his 15-17 on free throws. He is one heck of a player, maybe the best in the A10.

Frankly, I have not seen a better point guard in college basketball.

[rollo]

I'm opening a basketball officials camp for everyone here this summer and I'm not even going to charge you! For $2200/D1 game, I'm sure all of you will gladly give up your social lives and evenings, take your vast knowledge of the Rulebook (that you've never read) and in a matter of days - if not hours - be ready to replace these morons with 20+ years experience. Reffing is sooooooo easy. You'll love it.

We'll start with 3rd grade games and work our way up. If you don't pee your pants that first morning, we'll move up from there. Bring a change of clothes...most of you will need it.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I'm opening a basketball officials camp for everyone here this summer and I'm not even going to charge you! For $2200/D1 game, I'm sure all of you will gladly give up your social lives and evenings, take your vast knowledge of the Rulebook (that you've never read) and in a matter of days - if not hours - be ready to replace these morons with 20+ years experience. Reffing is sooooooo easy. You'll love it. We'll start with 3rd grade games and work our way up. If you don't pee your pants that first morning, we'll move up from there. Bring a change of clothes...most of you will need it.

No one, or at least me, is saying it's an easy job. But just like anything else in life there are some better officials than others. We've gotten a few bad ones this year (i.e. Nathan Farrell, Jeffrey Anderson, Wally Rutecki). And I'm always commenting to my wife when they are bad that they are bad both ways. I also watch a ton of college games with no rooting interest and have sen plenty of bad ones in those games as well. So I'm not saying it as a homer just a general observation of officiating by an ex-high school coach. I also see some very good officials too.

[rollo]

I also love when people say that Major League Baseball player (making >$5/yr) or NBA bench warmer 'sucks'. He's only been the best player on his HS, College and Minor league teams his whole life...

So yeah, you may THINK that our officials suck, too, but in REALITY - where I live - they are the best of the best.

But who am I to question the judgement of Billy Bob in sect 222 who's on his 8th beer and has been known to hit a '3' now and then in his YMCA men's league...

[maddog07]

From DDN "Dayton’s Darrell Davis soars for a bucket against St. Bonaventure’s Denzel Gregg at UD Arena on Saturday, Feb. 18, 2017. Erik ... read more"


We all know DD can't make a layup, and he didn't make this one.....


http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/rf/...9300_UDbb2.jpg

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by rollo I'm opening a basketball officials camp for everyone here this summer and I'm not even going to charge you! For $2200/D1 game, I'm sure all of you will gladly give up your social lives and evenings, take your vast knowledge of the Rulebook (that you've never read) and in a matter of days - if not hours - be ready to replace these morons with 20+ years experience. Reffing is sooooooo easy. You'll love it. We'll start with 3rd grade games and work our way up. If you don't pee your pants that first morning, we'll move up from there. Bring a change of clothes...most of you will need it.

we want to start at the top who wants to start listening to the parents of a 3rd grader

[Mr_Sweets]

Posted via Mobile Device

[rollo]

Originally Posted by UDBrian we want to start at the top who wants to start listening to the parents of a 3rd grader

Last week....3rd grade boys...Xenia Elite vs ?????. My partner has to 'T' up a 3rd grader for punching an opponent after a loose ball tie-up. You'd think that would calm things down. Nope. Not 2 minutes later we have another loose ball and this time I jump in with the 'jump ball' call....which was again followed up by another 'elite' player elbowing his opponent in the mouth. TWEET....'T'.

Of course at that point the Xenia inbreds go ballistic, followed by the head coach (one of the moms!) and I have to issue warnings....UGH!

I rarely give a sh*t who wins a game, but I have to admit that when the opponent hit a shot with 6 seconds left to go up by 1, I smiled. And when Xenia couldn't get a shot off in the last 6 seconds, I knew there is a God.

Any takers on my 3rd grade camp yet?

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I also love when people say that Major League Baseball player (making >$5/yr) or NBA bench warmer 'sucks'. He's only been the best player on his HS, College and Minor league teams his whole life... So yeah, you may THINK that our officials suck, too, but in REALITY - where I live - they are the best of the best. But who am I to question the judgement of Billy Bob in sect 222 who's on his 8th beer and has been known to hit a '3' now and then in his YMCA men's league...

If the officials, who are all the best, are equally the best of the best, then why is there an evaluation system and why don't they choose the NCAA tourney officials by a random draw? Some lawyers are better than others, some Dr.'s are better than other, some teachers are better than others, etc....there are even some bad ones in all of these professions. Therefore it is possible for there to be better officials than others...and even better MLB and NBA players than others. I don' think it's unfair to criticize someone who is not performing as well as they should be at their given profession, in fact everyone should beheld to a high standard. It happens all of the time in every profession...it's called real life.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer If the officials, who are all the best, are equally the best of the best, then why is there an evaluation system and why don't they choose the NCAA tourney officials by a random draw? Some lawyers are better than others, some Dr.'s are better than other, some teachers are better than others, etc....there are even some bad ones in all of these professions. Therefore it is possible for there to be better officials than others...and even better MLB and NBA players than others. I don' think it's unfair to criticize someone who is not performing as well as they should be at their given profession, in fact everyone should beheld to a high standard. It happens all of the time in every profession...it's called real life.

Every NCAA official is better than any fan and they, like the rest of us, are evaluated in ensure continuous improvement.

I have no problem criticizing someone...but only if you know WTF you're talking about. 75% of Priders are in the clueless category regarding rules. Don't believe me? Review the You Make the Call polls I put up and see how many wrong guesses there are compared to correct. Check the number of 'hits' compared to votes. If I see 450 hits 24 hours after I post the situation and only 12 votes, I have a couple hundred Prider's unable (or unwilling) to anonymously guess...even after an entire day to think about it. And despite the timeframe, the majority still get it wrong! But a ref who has 0.2 seconds to make a call while on the run and has no replay somehow 'sucks' for not calling a perceived 'travel' when in reality the ball handler didn't have possession.

I'm meeting with my tax accountant today at 11:00...she's a 30+ year UD season ticket holder and an awesome woman. Despite following her advice, it seems like every year I owe more and more...and it drives me and the queen nuts. To date I haven't protested in her front yard or yelled "CPA's suck" when I get her bill. Why? Because I don't know squat about tax accounting and she does. Although I know that wouldn't stop a lot of you from doing the same...

Go Flyers!
Go CPAs!
Go Refs
Go bodybuilders!
Go drunks*!

[priceg75]

Rollo, just because we can't ref at a college level, doesn't mean we can't criticize. Experience in a job is not a prerequisite for complaining about that job, otherwise all you old conservatives would need to shut the heck up.

Anyway, I don't think the refereeing was terrible in this game, but I do take issue with Adams basically drawing a foul on every drive. It seems like the easy, lazy way out to just blow a whistle every time. At some point, you should be allowed to guard in some fashion. Seemed like our guarding was good, there were some fouls but other times seemed like guesses.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Refs have been cried about since Naismith put up his first peach basket. And they will be cried about until the end of time. Its a job hazard. Go to any team's message boards after a close loss, no less then 50% will call out "horrible" officiating.

Times are so good here we talk about "horrible" officiating during wins.

Complaining about officiating is a way of life as a sports fan. We all see the game through our Flyers colored glasses. Every call should go our way every game, and our players are at fault for nothing. If you aren't *****ing about officiating you're probably a casual fan.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Rollo, just because we can't ref at a college level, doesn't mean we can't criticize. Experience in a job is not a prerequisite for complaining about that job, otherwise all you old conservatives would need to shut the heck up. Anyway, I don't think the refereeing was terrible in this game, but I do take issue with Adams basically drawing a foul on every drive. It seems like the easy, lazy way out to just blow a whistle every time. At some point, you should be allowed to guard in some fashion. Seemed like our guarding was good, there were some fouls but other times seemed like guesses.

Who said college level? I suggest trying CYO first! But based on what I read/see here, most aren't qualified to start at that level.

I remember about 10 games ago I commented on a call I perceived as bad...something I rarely do. It was a box out where I believe Sir Kendall Pollard boxed out an opponent hard and was called for the foul. Like me, a lot of UDPrider's agreed it was a bad call.

Then, unlike everyone else, I went hunting for the rule. And I found out that the call was correct because a legal boxout includes moving an opponent 'back' not sideways. And if you saw the replay of Sir Kendall, the opponent was at his side and Pollard pushed him at an angle, not backwards as the rule stipulates...so, by Rule, it actually was a foul on Sir KP!

My point...how can you complain about something you know nothing about without acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, the guy in the stripes knows a little more than the guy in the beer line? I mean, it is possible...isn't it?

Sorry...I gotta go. This thread has me all fired up and I need to paint some 'CPA Lies, Income Dies' signs for my 11:00 CPA meeting!

[rollo]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 Refs have been cried about since Naismith put up his first peach basket. And they will be cried about until the end of time. Its a job hazard. Go to any team's message boards after a close loss, no less then 50% will call out "horrible" officiating. Times are so good here we talk about "horrible" officiating during wins. Complaining about officiating is a way of life as a sports fan. We all see the game through our Flyers colored glasses. Every call should go our way every game, and our players are at fault for nothing. If you aren't *****ing about officiating you're probably a casual fan.

At 6'7", why aren't you (and 6'5" Shocka) officials?! Size = Instant cred!

[CT Flyer]

Rollo your majesty, I do agree with lots of what you say. However, is there ever a time when a D1 official has interpreted a rule incorrectly or made the wrong call? I can think of one a few days ago in a certain VCU game. D1 referees for the most part are excellent but are not immune to making mistakes from time to time...even mistakes that us beer swilling idiots know are mistakes.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer Rollo your majesty, I do agree with lots of what you say. However, is there ever a time when a D1 official has interpreted a rule incorrectly or made the wrong call? I can think of one a few days ago in a certain VCU game. D1 referees for the most part are excellent but are not immune to making mistakes from time to time...even mistakes that us beer swilling idiots know are mistakes.

>99% of their calls (and 'no-calls'), that are made in split-second fashion under incredibly adverse conditions, are correct. Beers or no beers, that's good enough for me.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by rollo At 6'7", why aren't you (and 6'5" Shocka) officials?! Size = Instant cred!

Theres something too this. _avier would go 0-35 every year. You may be on to something. Now i'd just to figure a way to makes sure all other Big East games end in a tie.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD62]

Let's see Flyer board complaining the refs were bad and the Flyers got screwed, SBU board complaining that the refs were bad and the Bonnies got screwed. Seems to me the refs must have got it about right. The goal tending non-call was a miss, other than that the refs did their job.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[Bucketnight]

Originally Posted by rollo >99% of their calls (and 'no-calls'), that are made in split-second fashion under incredibly adverse conditions, are correct. Beers or no beers, that's good enough for me.

I generally just roll my eyes at the ongoing issues that pop up on the board... Wright State, scheduling, etc. But the one i dread most is the reffing.

As has been noted by several posts above, upon replay the calls were proper. The consternation from the physical nature of the game should be that it serves as blueprint for a more talented physical team in the future.

The tragic loss of Big Steve was mentioned multiple times in the broadcast yesterday. The impact on the court was evident yesterdayl The well conceived and executed game plan of the Bonnies was a result of our limitations without Steve. Shooting poorly in the first half exasperated it.

Fans watch the game with their hearts. At the game, you can add in groupthink. I guess than makes complaining about reffing inevitable. But it still just seems like whining.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Anyway, I don't think the refereeing was terrible in this game, but I do take issue with Adams basically drawing a foul on every drive. It seems like the easy, lazy way out to just blow a whistle every time. At some point, you should be allowed to guard in some fashion. Seemed like our guarding was good, there were some fouls but other times seemed like guesses.

And full credit to Adams: once he realized he was more likely to draw a foul than not, he took advantage and start driving almost with reckless abandon. It's not a bad tactic, and you're basically daring the referee(s) to not call things they previously called.

[Bat'71]

One of the more irksome things about college reffing is when a ref, who is out of position, makes a call based on anticipation and not on actually seeing the play. Way too many times we can see a ref who is actually on top of a play swallow his whistle, while a ref across court will call a foul. If refs would simply call what they actually see, complaints (IMHO) would drop dramatically.

[88flyer]

My biggest issue with the officiating yesterday was the lack of consistency. At roughly the 10 minute mark in the first half there were a total of 5 fouls. Players take their cues from that tone. I commented to the person next to me that they were really letting them play today. Well - not so much.

Can't really complain about the ratio though. Even before the fouls at the end of the game, the Bonnies had more called on them than us.

Just keep winning baby!!

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[CE80]

...and what's with the black and white stripes? You think they would wear something a little more stylish. The
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

Originally Posted by UD62 Let's see Flyer board complaining the refs were bad and the Flyers got screwed, SBU board complaining that the refs were bad and the Bonnies got screwed. Seems to me the refs must have got it about right. The goal tending non-call was a miss, other than that the refs did their job.

I agree. Rollo is spot on. Because we as fans guess on most close plays as to what happens, we are bound to get a few right in slow motion, and I might add, looking at it in two dimensions. Does anybody admit to the majority they guessed wrong? I thought so.

Having refereed at all levels boys and girls, I can tell you two things that occur constantly: first, a ref is blocked, these are huge dudes, and sometimes the one ref with a clear view gets blocked and the two others are looking at someone else, or somewhere else; second, the ref standing close by sees no contact or slight contact, while the fan 50-200" away does not have that close angular view.

The goal tending was the only no brainer big miss yesterday, but then on my TV in two dimension, I am guessing like all the rest of you.

[C-time]

Since this is a game review thread that turned into a referees suck thread I decided to mention what I thought was the biggest key to winning the game which was Archie putting Cooke on Adams.

Adams had 14 points and Bona was up 26-11 at 7:20 mark of the first half. That is when Archie put Cooke on Adams. For the next 15:05 he only scored 2 points which was a layup at 3:27 in the 1st half after an offensive rebound was kicked out to him and Cooke had leaked out expecting UD to get the rebound. During those 15 minutes only took 4 other shots and missed them all and really didn't seem to want to take a shot when CC was guarding him.

Adams made a circus reverse layup at 12:15 while Cooke was out of the game and then scored 5 more points at the FT line and missed 2 more FGA through the 7:14 mark. That got him to 23 points, but he then didn't have a FG or FT attempt until there was 1:12 left in the game and Bona was down by 8. He scored 12 more as Bona started fouling to extend the game at that point.

I thought Charles did a great job guarding him despite the gaudy 35 points Adams ended up scoring.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[CT Flyer]

Thankfully I don't complain about the reffing against just Dayton. I feel like I am very fair and also say when they miss things the other way too. My biggest issue with officials is the lack of consistency, both in game and from game to game.

[T-Bone 84]

C-time, I was saying the same thing as the Flyers made the run that pushed us ahead early in the 2nd Half. Bona's offense came to a screeching halt once Adams' scoring opportunities in the halfcourt were contained, and I need to credit Charles for doing the containing and Archie for ordering the switch. And then Archie was able to get Charles and Scoochie a breather around the midway point of the second half, and when he brought them back @ the 5:00-6:00 minute mark, I said "pedal to the metal". Didn't quite work out that way, but not for a lack of coaching strategy on Archie's part.

One last comment, about yesterday's officiating. My biggest gripe was with the consistency. An infraction in the 5th minute should be an infraction in the 35th minute. But they seemed to be letting some contact go uncalled early in the game, but then calling very similar contact later on. Did we get jobbed? Hard to make that argument with a straight face. But were some of the calls against both teams questionable? Probably. And in researching the 3 officials from yesterday, I'm guessing they probably never worked as a crew before, because one guy mostly has done MAAC games (New Jersey, Maryland, etc.), and another had mostly worked SEC and Big 12 contests. That could have had something to do with it.
Posted via Mobile Device

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by jack72 I agree. Rollo is spot on. Because we as fans guess on most close plays as to what happens, we are bound to get a few right in slow motion, and I might add, looking at it in two dimensions. Does anybody admit to the majority they guessed wrong? I thought so. Having refereed at all levels boys and girls, I can tell you two things that occur constantly: first, a ref is blocked, these are huge dudes, and sometimes the one ref with a clear view gets blocked and the two others are looking at someone else, or somewhere else; second, the ref standing close by sees no contact or slight contact, while the fan 50-200" away does not have that close angular view. The goal tending was the only no brainer big miss yesterday, but then on my TV in two dimension, I am guessing like all the rest of you.

I am usually about 50/50 on those out of bounds calls.

[UD62]

Our official crews come from a pool that refs the MAAC, BE, ACC, SEC, Big12 and others. there is no such thing as "A-10 refs". Folks that use that phrase don't know what they are talking about( hard as that may be to believe)

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by UD62 Our official crews come from a pool that refs the MAAC, BE, ACC, SEC, Big12 and others. there is no such thing as "A-10 refs". Folks that use that phrase don't know what they are talking about( hard as that may be to believe)

Than what's the reason the Refs push SJs through the A10 tournament every two seasons?

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Than what's the reason the Refs push SJs through the A10 tournament every two seasons?

The Langston Galloway push-off stills irks me. Right in front of two refs. Arm clearly extended.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 The Langston Galloway push-off stills irks me. Right in front of two refs. Arm clearly extended.

Not to mention the two steps backward to get beyond the 3 point line he took after the push off of KD. However, to lower my blood pressure, I think about how they got stuck playing UConn in the 1st round and we got the easier path due to that.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 I was on the Arena concourse, working my way back to my seat. From that vantage point, it looked like they had called "Held Ball", and were waiting for the 2 players (Cooke and the St. Bonnie dude) to let go of the ball on their own. When neither player gave in, and the stripes didn't step in, is when tempers flared. And I recall yelling "See? You let stuff go, and this is what happens!", with the "stuff" being the tussle for the ball, even after the whistle blew. My problem was with how they took their sweet, old time going in to get the ball once the play had been blown dead. Posted via Mobile Device

Exactly how I recall it taking place. Guess you had to be there

[FLYER5]

I'll admit I usually side with the savages in the stands on judgment calls. I admit wholeheartedly that Rollo knows the rules, and thanks to him for those contributions. But daggone, the refs were so inconsistenthat on Saturday. When players don't get the proper 'feel' from the officials for how to play that particular contest, it seems to me momentum and tempo have been thwarted by many an officiating crew. In my eyes such was the case on Saturday.