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  #1  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:26 PM
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Tournaments in One-Bid Leagues

A proposal to change tournaments for one-bid leagues:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-bas...-also-logical/


Interesting but also insane suggestion there. You can mess with the tournament structure all you like, but you can't mess with the game on the court. Starting a team with a 10-0 lead is just bananas.

However, I do like the bye all the way to the championship game. As an added bonus, as much as possible no one else should get any byes so that even if it's the number 2 seed, they have to come in tired - having played games on the 2 or 3 previous days.

Another option... have the #1 seed play two games, but put ALL of the lowest seeds on one half of the bracket with the number 1 seed. Put all of the highest seeds on the other half of the bracket. That way #1 doesn't walk in rusty. But they walk in having played only 1 game versus 2 or 3 for the opponent in the championship game. Something like this (assuming a 12 team league):

A. #11 v #12
B. #8 v Winner of A
C. #9 v #10
D. Winner of B v Winner of C
E. #1 v Winner of D

F. #7 v #4
G. #6 v #5
H. #3 v Winner of F
I. #2 v Winner of G
J. Winner of H v Winner of I

K. Winner of E v Winner of J


The best option would be to let the #1 seed host the championship game at home. Home court advantage is so huge. But for financial reasons that seems unlikely for most leagues.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
A proposal to change tournaments for one-bid leagues:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-bas...-also-logical/


Interesting but also insane suggestion there. You can mess with the tournament structure all you like, but you can't mess with the game on the court. Starting a team with a 10-0 lead is just bananas.

However, I do like the bye all the way to the championship game. As an added bonus, as much as possible no one else should get any byes so that even if it's the number 2 seed, they have to come in tired - having played games on the 2 or 3 previous days.

Another option... have the #1 seed play two games, but put ALL of the lowest seeds on one half of the bracket with the number 1 seed. Put all of the highest seeds on the other half of the bracket. That way #1 doesn't walk in rusty. But they walk in having played only 1 game versus 2 or 3 for the opponent in the championship game. Something like this (assuming a 12 team league):

A. #11 v #12
B. #8 v Winner of A
C. #9 v #10
D. Winner of B v Winner of C
E. #1 v Winner of D

F. #7 v #4
G. #6 v #5
H. #3 v Winner of F
I. #2 v Winner of G
J. Winner of H v Winner of I

K. Winner of E v Winner of J


The best option would be to let the #1 seed host the championship game at home. Home court advantage is so huge. But for financial reasons that seems unlikely for most leagues.
I'd prefer something like giving every conference at least 2 teams in Dance. And add to the play-in games to accompany this. Also make the big championship trophy the regular season trophy and the only reward the winner of the conference tournament gets is an auto-bid, no trophy, no hoopla. Just a bid. The team that wins the regular season should have no extra incentive to win the conference tournament and can use it as exhibition games to get their team ready for the dance. UD for instance could get Trey and Sam a heck of a lot more playing time against teams going all out to win, that's a huge advantage for the team winning the regular season. If the regular season champion does win their tournament, you just give the autobid to the runner up.

Now, the problem with above is who's the lucky team that gets to play the regular season champion who has no incentive to win? That would have to be decided by each conference.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:21 PM
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Or, a twist to my earlier post. Still have both the regular season and tournament champion go to dance. Also have 4 pre-ncaa tournaments around the the country with 8 teams in each all of conference regular champions(who don't play in their conference tournamnts) that consist of a mix of P5-Mid Majors-former 1 team bids.

Winners of those pre-ncaa tournaments get somewhere between a 1-4 seed and some big rewards and hoopla.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:30 PM
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The tournament should be precisely 64 teams, no more, no less. 24 conference auto-bids, 40 at large bids. This ensures that the field contains the top 50 teams at least.

But there's 32 conferences! Yeah, well, if your conference doesn't finish in the top 24 RPI conferences, no auto-bid for you.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
The tournament should be precisely 64 teams, no more, no less. 24 conference auto-bids, 40 at large bids. This ensures that the field contains the top 50 teams at least.

But there's 32 conferences! Yeah, well, if your conference doesn't finish in the top 24 RPI conferences, no auto-bid for you.
I just watched a 10-23 Milwaukee team take NKU to the limit in the Horizon final. Those kids gave everything they had for the chance to go to the big dance. I don't ever want to take that away from them. Ever.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:16 PM
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I think the Horizon had it right before they had it wrong. Play the tournament at campus sites, and have a ladder format instead of a standard format.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Didn't Florida Gulf Coast not win their win league the year they had their run?
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:17 AM
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They want TV money and exposure. Give the top seed a bye to the final and play a best of 3. The 10 point spot idea is just not happening, as no sport does that.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:33 AM
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If you are a one bid league and you want your best representative to go to the NCAA (typically the regular season champion) why have a tournament at the end of the year? I know $$$. Even the IVY League has a tournament beginning this year.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:51 AM
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Jason Horowitz‏Verified account @HorowitzJason 12h12 hours ago




So Through 11 #champgames , there have been 7 top seeds or reg season co-champs to win automatic bid. also 3 4 seeds (NKU, Jax st, SDSU)
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:28 PM
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This seems a bit like a solution looking for a problem. If small conferences (via their athletic directors) want to do it this way, go ahead. Little chance of winning your first round game anyway, either pick the team full of confidence from winning the conference tourney or the best regular season team.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
This seems a bit like a solution looking for a problem. If small conferences (via their athletic directors) want to do it this way, go ahead. Little chance of winning your first round game anyway, either pick the team full of confidence from winning the conference tourney or the best regular season team.
Tournaments generate excitement because there's a bid on the line. But it renders the regular season all but meaningless. I do think that's a problem. I think it's worthwhile to retain the excitement while giving the league winner a stronger advantage.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
Tournaments generate excitement because there's a bid on the line. But it renders the regular season all but meaningless. I do think that's a problem. I think it's worthwhile to retain the excitement while giving the league winner a stronger advantage.
If the bid was given to the regular season champ how much would the regular season matter once the best team has a four game lead in the standings? Not saying I'm for or against, just looking at it another way.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
A proposal to change tournaments for one-bid leagues:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-bas...-also-logical/


Interesting but also insane suggestion there. You can mess with the tournament structure all you like, but you can't mess with the game on the court. Starting a team with a 10-0 lead is just bananas.

However, I do like the bye all the way to the championship game. As an added bonus, as much as possible no one else should get any byes so that even if it's the number 2 seed, they have to come in tired - having played games on the 2 or 3 previous days.

Another option... have the #1 seed play two games, but put ALL of the lowest seeds on one half of the bracket with the number 1 seed. Put all of the highest seeds on the other half of the bracket. That way #1 doesn't walk in rusty. But they walk in having played only 1 game versus 2 or 3 for the opponent in the championship game. Something like this (assuming a 12 team league):

A. #11 v #12
B. #8 v Winner of A
C. #9 v #10
D. Winner of B v Winner of C
E. #1 v Winner of D

F. #7 v #4
G. #6 v #5
H. #3 v Winner of F
I. #2 v Winner of G
J. Winner of H v Winner of I

K. Winner of E v Winner of J


The best option would be to let the #1 seed host the championship game at home. Home court advantage is so huge. But for financial reasons that seems unlikely for most leagues.
The only problem here is that in some leagues it's not just one dominant team, but two or three, and the team that gets the #1 seed does so only through a tiebreaker. I think that the ladder tournament format is ideal. It rewards the top two seeds, and then the next two accordingly, while still (on paper) giving every team in the conference a shot.
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Old 03-08-2017, 07:21 PM
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Are you then against the current 68???

Originally Posted by sheg View Post
The tournament should be precisely 64 teams, no more, no less. 24 conference auto-bids, 40 at large bids. This ensures that the field contains the top 50 teams at least.

But there's 32 conferences! Yeah, well, if your conference doesn't finish in the top 24 RPI conferences, no auto-bid for you.
want to eliminate the First Four?
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
The only problem here is that in some leagues it's not just one dominant team, but two or three, and the team that gets the #1 seed does so only through a tiebreaker. I think that the ladder tournament format is ideal. It rewards the top two seeds, and then the next two accordingly, while still (on paper) giving every team in the conference a shot.
Makes sense, but heavily favoring the number one seed makes the regular season results more important, and it does still give everyone a shot.
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
Makes sense, but heavily favoring the number one seed makes the regular season results more important, and it does still give everyone a shot.
I agree that the regular season results should be considered very important (in fact, were it up to me, leagues would be banned from using conference tournaments to determine autobids). However your tournament format is too punitive to second place teams, particularly when seeds are only determined through tiebreaker. For instance, if you have a scenario where two teams dominate their conference, each finishing tied for first with a record of 17-1, the #1 seed is determined through a tiebreaker. Why should one team get a significantly more difficult path than the other when the conference had co-champions?
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:54 PM
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I think the best format would be to give the regular season champs a bye into the championship game of the tournament. Sort of puts everybody in a losers' bracket to see who can survive to challenge the champ. And then the final game should be on the champ's home court. If the king of the contenders can outplay the champs at that point, then take the crown off the regular season champs and crown the contender - they earned it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
I agree that the regular season results should be considered very important (in fact, were it up to me, leagues would be banned from using conference tournaments to determine autobids). However your tournament format is too punitive to second place teams, particularly when seeds are only determined through tiebreaker. For instance, if you have a scenario where two teams dominate their conference, each finishing tied for first with a record of 17-1, the #1 seed is determined through a tiebreaker. Why should one team get a significantly more difficult path than the other when the conference had co-champions?
Because they won the tiebreaker.
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