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03-19-2015, 09:33 AM
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Gottlieb
I'd like to get everyone's opinion of Gottlieb's comments during the game.
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03-19-2015, 09:35 AM
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If there were such a thing as GottliebPride.com, I'd have gone DevonScott on him last night.
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03-19-2015, 09:38 AM
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He's a real douche bag in every sense of the word!!!
Go Flyers!!!
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03-19-2015, 09:44 AM
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He wasn't that bad until the last few minutes of the game.
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03-19-2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 1in25
He's a real douche bag in every sense of the word!!!
Go Flyers!!!
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I think the inventor of the douche bag would take offense to the comparison.
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03-19-2015, 09:53 AM
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I'm actually normally a Gottlieb fan. He's typically been very complimentary of UD. A lot of the negative comments last night I believe were directed at the committee, not UD. I think he felt that we had the advantage especially in the last 3 or 4 minutes with the crowd, which was 100% right, and he spoke his mind about it.
His opinion on the last call however was absolutely wrong. That is not a foul in any game at any time.
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03-19-2015, 09:55 AM
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Agree with Shqckey, he's normally pretty complimentary of UD.
Kind of funny, Boise State's board is full of hate for Seth Davis, while we all hate Doug right now. It all depends on which side of the table you sit on I guess.
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03-19-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SHQCKEY
I'm actually normally a Gottlieb fan. He's typically been very complimentary of UD. A lot of the negative comments last night I believe were directed at the committee, not UD. I think he felt that we had the advantage especially in the last 3 or 4 minutes with the crowd, which was 100% right, and he spoke his mind about it.
His opinion on the last call however was absolutely wrong. That is not a foul in any game at any time.
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That play may not really be a foul in any game at any time, but it is called a foul nearly every time it occurs and almost always on the defender. In fact, I don't remember the last time I saw it called on the shooter.
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03-19-2015, 10:08 AM
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Most of my comments aren't printable. That said, IMHO, the studio panel's repudiation of his opinion regarding the "no-call" on the last play is a microcosm of my thoughts regarding his overall body of work last night. There were a few times during the broadcast when he seemed to agree with calls the went in favor of UD (or against BSU), but overall he seemed to be either against UD for some reason, or bending over backwards to favor Boise State. Why? My guess is (to paraphrase from the movie Animal House) "He was probably beaten as a child."
Note: I can only comment about his performance last night, as the only college hoops I normally see are my Flyers, and usually that's in-person. Perhaps he's normally better toward UD, and that his comments were triggered by the Committee's decision. Dunno. Again, only commenting about last night.
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03-19-2015, 10:17 AM
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I agree with cj. Honestly I didn't think he was that bad. He actually could talk about basketball and he got away from some of the talking points other announcing crews couldn't shut up about.
Although, at halftime the annoyncer's only reason for UD's struggles was the absence of Jordan Sibert when another factor was UD's lack of steals and Boise's ability to not make many turnovers/mistakes.
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03-19-2015, 10:25 AM
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I think he just stokes controversy so he can talk about it. Not impressed with him at all.
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03-19-2015, 10:26 AM
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It is not an announcer's job to go on and on about the refs, or for that matter other topics. Save that for the fans. A professional announcer should touch on those things and go on. Where Gottlieb lost me was on the number of times he challenged the referee calls and the "home advantage". After a while it takes on a negative tone that detracts from a great game.
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03-19-2015, 10:29 AM
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I think he does a nice job. He isn't a sheep like most play by play guys. He speaks his mind. I think he was directing everything at the committee and not you guys. Personally, I don't think you guys should have even been in that game (like everyone here feels) so this situation should have never came up, which I think was a bit unfair to Boise State.
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03-19-2015, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
It is not an announcer's job to go on and on about the refs, or for that matter other topics.
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BINGO! Former players know the game but very little about rules, violations or anything remotely related.
I like how the NFL has a retired ref in studio to discuss controversial calls...that's someone worth listening to because he's been there, done that and has actually studied the Rules. Play-by-play and color commentators should stick to what they know...to do otherwise only fans the flames of the viewers who know even less about officiating.
FWIW, that was not a foul on the last shot...not only did the shooter over-exaggerate his lean into Davis, he barely made contact in doing so. Additionally, I though Davis did a great job of defending 'up' instead of 'forward', giving the impression he 'maintained his plane'...which if done properly allows for contact and no foul.
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03-19-2015, 10:39 AM
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The post game comments by Wally were worse than anything that came out of Gottlieb's mouth.
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03-19-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SHQCKEY
His opinion on the last call however was absolutely wrong. That is not a foul in any game at any time.
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I am typically a fan of his. My remembrance of his call was "that is usually called a foul". I'm not sure he really thought it was. I agree he seemed to get on Dayton, but that was thrust on us because the committee undervalued our regular season.
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03-19-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
BINGO! Former players know the game but very little about rules, violations or anything remotely related.
I like how the NFL has a retired ref in studio to discuss controversial calls...that's someone worth listening to because he's been there, done that and has actually studied the Rules. Play-by-play and color commentators should stick to what they know...to do otherwise only fans the flames of the viewers who know even less about officiating.
FWIW, that was not a foul on the last shot...not only did the shooter over-exaggerate his lean into Davis, he barely made contact in doing so. Additionally, I though Davis did a great job of defending 'up' instead of 'forward', giving the impression he 'maintained his plane'...which if done properly allows for contact and no foul.
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Great explanation Rollo! As to former players, most do not know the rules. They crack me up just on their interpretation of traveling and falling down.
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03-19-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67
I think he just stokes controversy so he can talk about it
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Yep, he also has his own talk show, and we all know that talk show hosts, by nature, love to stoke controversy...
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03-19-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
BINGO! Former players know the game but very little about rules, violations or anything remotely related.
I like how the NFL has a retired ref in studio to discuss controversial calls...that's someone worth listening to because he's been there, done that and has actually studied the Rules. Play-by-play and color commentators should stick to what they know...to do otherwise only fans the flames of the viewers who know even less about officiating.
FWIW, that was not a foul on the last shot...not only did the shooter over-exaggerate his lean into Davis, he barely made contact in doing so. Additionally, I though Davis did a great job of defending 'up' instead of 'forward', giving the impression he 'maintained his plane'...which if done properly allows for contact and no foul.
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From where I sat, the Boise State player knew he was in trouble and his only hope was to lean into Kyle and beg for a foul. He moved quite a bit forward towards Kyle.
I've seen players hammered at the end of the game with no calls made, so a lean in beg for a foul play is not going to get a whistle.
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03-19-2015, 11:30 AM
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My take of Gottlieb commentary is that 99% of time offensive player gets that call, and it's usually regardless of the reality of the situation/facts.
He was in fact complimenting them (on last play) by saying refs did make the right call, last night.
I thought overall dougie was pretty good. The refs WERE VERY uneven and not consistent all game. At times let them play, other times ghost fouls or poor calls.
Jordan did or hardly did anything on foul #4.
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03-19-2015, 11:41 AM
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TV basketball announcers are normally babbling idiots with very few constructive words coming from their mouths about what is happening on the court. Most of the time I get the impression they don't even watch the game.
It was interesting watching the replay after attending the game. Saw some things that we couldn't see in person, fouls etc.
Oh, and on the last play, yes, it is most often called a foul, but should not be when the offense jumps into the defender. The guy who said it should have been a foul is WRONG.
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03-19-2015, 11:44 AM
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Daugherty's Take
I agree with Doc
" I don't like D. Gottlieb, who did the UD game last night. Dumb, wrongly opinionated, rant-full. And the Boise guy really did not get fouled on that last shot last night. BTW, Doug, could you tell us again about how Boise's playing a road game in the tournament? We missed it the first 500 times."
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/daug...sday/25011065/
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03-19-2015, 11:57 AM
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Gottlieb's a passionate guy who tries hard to be fair but won't give up on his position no matter how many others take the opposite viewpoint. He reminds me of Nancy Grace.
But generally speaking his viewpoints are fair.
Someone made the point that Kyle did not foul, and I believe that. But someone else made the point that no matter what, that call usually goes wrongly against the defense. I think that is what was at the root of Doug's opinion, and basically it's true.
Someone else said the ref should never decide a game on that play, and I think rightly so that the ref's were in that mindset.
I think it was Gottlieb who took the position that Dayton should never have been in that game in the first place. Should have been a higher seed. And he would argue that all night too.
He locks in to the point of whining.
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03-19-2015, 11:59 AM
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GGG
Don't Mean to Pile on Here but Gottlieb Gotta Go!!!
For the past two months I've been bed ridden and have resorted to watching all sorts of sports talk shows. Of all I watch nothing is more unpalatable then the "Doug Gottlieb Show" on CBS Sports Network. His overall sports intelligence can be questioned, lacks an appealing voice, is often prone to bias rants and the show moves at a snail's pace (not unlike NCAA Tournament BB games). I'd rather watch an entire afternoon of exhibition baseball.
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03-19-2015, 12:01 PM
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For the uninitiated, basketball is a contact sport.
On that last shot, there was contact...slight, but it happened. The rookie CYO ref calls the foul for no other reason than there was contact and (s)he doesn't want to get yelled at by snot-nosed 12 year olds, unknowledgeable fans and biased coaches.
The experienced official knows to HESITATE ever-so-slightly and ask "Did the contact AFFECT THE SHOT"...if 'yes', they blow the whistle. If not, no call...game over and our Flyers advance.
I bet the 5 least most passionate Flyer fans could all sit in a room with whistles in their mouths - and if asked to put the Kool-Aid down and wear the striped shirt - as well as make calls while watching a live game, would blow the whistle >20 more times than the real refs, and rarely would all 5 blow it at the same time for no other reason than they know little about the rules outside of the playground or their PS3 NBA15 video game.
Just because you don't like the call doesn't mean the refs suck...and we/they know that, because for every whistle, half the people involved - stands, bench, tv - are screaming unmentionables at you.
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03-19-2015, 12:05 PM
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Syracuse playing in Buffalo is like UD playing at the Nutter Center. 17,000 of the 19,250 fans at the game were wearing Syracuse Orange apparel. It might as well been played at the Carrier Dome.
I realize #3 seeds get protected, but Dayton was at a major disadvantage nonetheless. Nobody wanted to hear about UDs uphill battle.
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03-19-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
From where I sat, the Boise State player knew he was in trouble and his only hope was to lean into Kyle and beg for a foul. He moved quite a bit forward towards Kyle.
I've seen players hammered at the end of the game with no calls made, so a lean in beg for a foul play is not going to get a whistle.
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This call could have gone either way. The major factor that helped was that Kyle actually landed on the ground after jumping, held his ground/position without leaning or falling forward, BEFORE any contact was made by the shooter. His arms were not exactly straight up, more at like a 70% degree angle, and that's where a foul could have been construed. Watching it live, I couldn't tell that Kyle had firmly reestablished his position on the floor, which is probably where the perception of a foul comes from.
Watching it in slo-mo, I think the refs the got it right. I'm just glad they were good enough to get it right while observing during live action.
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03-19-2015, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
My take of Gottlieb commentary is that 99% of time offensive player gets that call, and it's usually regardless of the reality of the situation/facts.
He was in fact by saying refs did make the right call, last night.
I thought overall dougie was pretty good. The refs WERE VERY uneven and not consistent all game. At times let them play, other times ghost fouls or poor calls.
Jordan did or hardly did anything on foul #4.
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I disagree with the foul/no-foul assessment. Primarily because it was the last play, and how many times through the years have we seen and heard refs decide the game on the last play? The focus of the refs was to watch for a desperate shot because Boise was in a desperate situation. Therefore I believe the last possession of a tightly contested game is presently getting the absolute best evaluation from the refs. The NCAA doesn't want to be scrutinized for not having the best crew on the floor or for having a bad call decide a game on the last play. Between you and I I believe they would rather have a botched call earlier so that the refs can award the infamous 'make-up call'
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03-19-2015, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SHQCKEY
I'm actually normally a Gottlieb fan. He's typically been very complimentary of UD. A lot of the negative comments last night I believe were directed at the committee, not UD. I think he felt that we had the advantage especially in the last 3 or 4 minutes with the crowd, which was 100% right, and he spoke his mind about it.
His opinion on the last call however was absolutely wrong. That is not a foul in any game at any time.
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I think it's kind of puzzling that you and a couple others think he's complimentary of UD normally. Since he was on that ESPN dream job show, he's probably advocated for Dayton twice. He's a very biased broadcaster and heavily favors his power conferences more often than not (especially his Cowboys). I trace it back to a time where he advocated hard for Dayton in a game they were heavily favored and it made him look silly when they lost. Since then, he hasn't trusted the team itself and ****s on them when he can. He does, however, speak very highly of the city and our fans.
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03-19-2015, 02:12 PM
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Count me as a fan of Gottlieb. He has been complimentary of UD in the past. When he was back at ESPN, I felt he was the only guy who knew what he was talking about when discussing UD's team. I don't agree with his opinion on that last play of the game, but I'm still a fan of his.
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03-19-2015, 02:37 PM
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I like him a hell of a lot more than Joe Lunardi.
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03-19-2015, 03:03 PM
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If I understood the announcers correctly the head ref was a final four ref, in other words very experienced and savvy. He was in the right position to gauge what the shooter and defender were doing. I would guess he saw that the shooter was panicking and praying for a foul call as he had no other options. Actually had he initiated his move into the defender while in the air he most likely would have gotten the call.
Kyle did jump but not all that high which gave the shooter little time to make his move. As an experienced NCAA ref he saw the shooters predicament and last second move into Kyle and a attempt to make it look like he was shooting. Not even close to the bucket.
Dayton outscored them 15-5 in closing minutes, so in my mind they don't have anyone to blame but themselves. Keep your foot on the pedal and we are not having this conversation.
This was not an ideal situation (game) for either team but you have to deal with the hand you are dealt. Dayton didn't ask to be put in the first four.
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03-19-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I like him a hell of a lot more than Joe Lunardi.
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Only other sports announcer I disliked (and I knew him personally) was ol nasal drip, Howard Cosell. Most arrogant individual I'd ever met.
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03-19-2015, 04:11 PM
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Regarding the final shot by Boise: I don't think an official alive iwould blow the whistle in that situation.
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03-19-2015, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
For the uninitiated, basketball is a contact sport.
On that last shot, there was contact...slight, but it happened. The rookie CYO ref calls the foul for no other reason than there was contact and (s)he doesn't want to get yelled at by snot-nosed 12 year olds, unknowledgeable fans and biased coaches.
The experienced official knows to HESITATE ever-so-slightly and ask "Did the contact AFFECT THE SHOT"...if 'yes', they blow the whistle. If not, no call...game over and our Flyers advance.
I bet the 5 least most passionate Flyer fans could all sit in a room with whistles in their mouths - and if asked to put the Kool-Aid down and wear the striped shirt - as well as make calls while watching a live game, would blow the whistle >20 more times than the real refs, and rarely would all 5 blow it at the same time for no other reason than they know little about the rules outside of the playground or their PS3 NBA15 video game.
Just because you don't like the call doesn't mean the refs suck...and we/they know that, because for every whistle, half the people involved - stands, bench, tv - are screaming unmentionables at you.
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So you're saying no advantage was gained...hmmm...distinctly remember you telling me recently that didn't matter to the refs??
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03-19-2015, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
So you're saying no advantage was gained...hmmm...distinctly remember you telling me recently that didn't matter to the refs??
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I believe what I said was that some situations are subjective (advantage gained) and others are objective (5-second call)...but if I'm mistaken let me know and I'll clarify. Or try to cover my *ss with some lame excuse!!
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03-19-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
My take of Gottlieb commentary is that 99% of time offensive player gets that call, and it's usually regardless of the reality of the situation/facts.
He was in fact complimenting them (on last play) by saying refs did make the right call, last night.
I thought overall dougie was pretty good. The refs WERE VERY uneven and not consistent all game. At times let them play, other times ghost fouls or poor calls.
Jordan did or hardly did anything on foul #4.
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And that happened right after KP did nothing to deserve the foul called on him.
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Was going to mention KP,s phantom foul also. But didn't want to give honest opinion or I might get jumped on as everyone is jumping on Gottlieb.
That guy knew more accurate facts about Dayton Players that wasn't just cutesy prepared theatre. Guy does his research
While u may not like his style and some of his repetitive points about home team and the refs, the guy played and knows his stuff.
I'm normally not a fan of his. Last night he was fairly on point. especially about the inconsistent refereeing! !
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03-19-2015, 05:27 PM
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General of the Air Force
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I remember in the second half when the guy shoved our player under the basket and Gotleib went nuts saying that wasn't a foul. His side kick then asked if there was contact or not, then asked so you think that should be a play on, even though there was obviously contact. Was almost half expecting a debate but I am sure the producers etc in the truck told them to stfu, in so man words.
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03-19-2015, 07:16 PM
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General of the Air Force
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We are lucky that Kyle had landed and appeared to be trying to avoid contact. If Kyle had been in the air it would have been called a foul. I don't think that if a player is on the ground and the opposing offensive player jumps into hm that it is called a foul
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Mad Props to UDBrian For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-19-2015, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
We are lucky that Kyle had landed and appeared to be trying to avoid contact. If Kyle had been in the air it would have been called a foul. I don't think that if a player is on the ground and the opposing offensive player jumps into hm that it is called a foul
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Marks' mistake was not jumping while Kyle was in the air. If he made contact while Kyle was on his way down it surely would have been called a foul.
Last edited by Flyer Al; 03-20-2015 at 08:57 AM..
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Mad Props to Flyer Al For This Totally Excellent Post:
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