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01-18-2022, 09:43 PM
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Camara
Camara drives me nuts as the nation's leading layup misser and a sometimes turnover machine. But. We really cannot play without his athleticism. Watch the number of rebounds he gets that he has no business collecting because he just out jumps the other guy. Those are extra possessions he saves.
I think we're a better team when he scores less than 10 points and stuffing the rest of the stat sheet. It seems like he's accepting that role on the team, which is why turnovers are down and shots are down but his impact is up.
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01-18-2022, 09:48 PM
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Camara had zero turnovers today and took no threes.
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Last edited by jack72; 01-18-2022 at 09:51 PM..
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01-18-2022, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Camara drives me nuts as the nation's leading layup misser and a sometimes turnover machine. But. We really cannot play without his athleticism. Watch the number of rebounds he gets that he has no business collecting because he just out jumps the other guy. Those are extra possessions he saves.
I think we're a better team when he scores less than 10 points and stuffing the rest of the stat sheet. It seems like he's accepting that role on the team, which is why turnovers are down and shots are down but his impact is up.
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I've said it a few times in the last couple of weeks, and I know it's not what he wants, but he needs to accept the role of being the lunch pail guy doing lots of the dirty work. He is a tremendous rebounder and a very good defender.
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01-18-2022, 09:54 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Camara is #2 on the team in assists, with 4 more tonight
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01-18-2022, 09:56 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
Camara had zero turnovers today.
Posted via Mobile Device
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^^^^
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This.
It’s really looking like Camara (and several others) are learning their roles on this team, and playing those roles. They’re trying to be what this team needs them to be to succeed. As a result, the team is playing its best basketball of the season (the Kansas & VT wins notwithstanding), and the future looks very bright at this point.
Well done, Gentlemen!
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01-18-2022, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Camara is #2 on the team in assists, with 4 more tonight
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And that's why his shortcomings are easier to swallow lately. He's finally feeding Holmes when he gets the ball inside rather than forcing bad shots. About a month ago someone posted that he and Holmes probably just don't click well together when they're both taking up space in the paint. And that was true. But now it isn't. They are clicking much better together now.
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01-18-2022, 10:05 PM
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I think he has great ability around the hoop on offense. If he could hit those short little shots, it would add a dimension to the team. We are already tough to handle, but with him doing some post damage, we could be tremendous.
What I did not expect from him was great defense. But he is a great defender, and quite versatile. He blows me away with his ability to guard much smaller men. He moves really well.
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01-18-2022, 10:13 PM
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I like 2022 Camara.
2021 was a mess.
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01-18-2022, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Camara drives me nuts as the nation's leading layup misser and a sometimes turnover machine. But. We really cannot play without his athleticism. Watch the number of rebounds he gets that he has no business collecting because he just out jumps the other guy. Those are extra possessions he saves.
I think we're a better team when he scores less than 10 points and stuffing the rest of the stat sheet. It seems like he's accepting that role on the team, which is why turnovers are down and shots are down but his impact is up.
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Two of those misses were halfway down...cut him some slack. He abused SBU's interior multiple times, and his passing for a big man is off the charts.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-18-2022, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar
Two of those misses were halfway down...cut him some slack. He abused SBU's interior multiple times, and his passing for a big man is off the charts.
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Today? I'm talking about the whole season. He misses a ton of shots right around the rim.
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01-19-2022, 01:37 AM
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Good clean game for Camara tonight. For comparison:
Holmes 534min 17 turnovers (21 assists)
Camara 488min 53 turnovers (34 assists)
One could say DaRon only touches the ball when he's dunking so there's little "hand time" on the ball during a game, but that's not really true. He handles the ball at the top of the top of the key when we start our offense and either hands it off to the curler or passes to the wing. In that role, he's opening himself up to getting pick-pocketed or fumble-itis. For a post man, that's an extremely low number of turnovers. How many post guys in CBB have a + A/TO ratio?
When we're coughing the ball up, its usually not Deuce contributing to it.
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01-19-2022, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Today? I'm talking about the whole season. He misses a ton of shots right around the rim.
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He is still shooting 50% from the field even while shooting 20% from 3. I'll take 50% from the field from Camara.
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01-19-2022, 07:37 AM
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Team is learning to play together and coaches are putting guys in better position to succeed as they understand the players’ strengths
Been a lot less Camara getting the ball at 3 pt line and barreling towards the rim lately. That play was killing the offense
Camara is a huge part of the identity of the team. The defensive frontcourt with him, Blakney and Holmes is elite
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01-19-2022, 08:52 AM
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Camara has been more composed of late and seems to be looking to distribute down to Holmes as often as he can, he draws the attention of the defender and that slip pass is killing opposing teams.
The last night, I started to see that same play reciprocated back to Camara. There were a few times the ball was knocked out of bounds but at least once that it worked like a charm.
He has the best low post set of moves on the team and something I wish they would utilize more. Especially if he's willing to get the ball in the post, work his man than slip it off to Daron for the easy deuce. When he plays composed and doesn't force the issue he is a huge asset to the team on both ends of the court. I wonder if with so much uncertainty early on, new players, new roles limited opportunities of having guys play with each other if guys like Camara and Elvis weren't pressing more, trying to be "the man" on a team in search of an identity. Now that they have seemingly found that identity, both play much better within the structure of the team and the results on the court have been dyn-o-mite.
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01-19-2022, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford
Camara has been more composed of late and seems to be looking to distribute down to Holmes as often as he can, he draws the attention of the defender and that slip pass is killing opposing teams.
The last night, I started to see that same play reciprocated back to Camara. There were a few times the ball was knocked out of bounds but at least once that it worked like a charm.
He has the best low post set of moves on the team and something I wish they would utilize more. Especially if he's willing to get the ball in the post, work his man than slip it off to Daron for the easy deuce. When he plays composed and doesn't force the issue he is a huge asset to the team on both ends of the court. I wonder if with so much uncertainty early on, new players, new roles limited opportunities of having guys play with each other if guys like Camara and Elvis weren't pressing more, trying to be "the man" on a team in search of an identity. Now that they have seemingly found that identity, both play much better within the structure of the team and the results on the court have been dyn-o-mite.
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It really does seem like both Elvis and Camara are comfortable with the idea that on any given day, they may score <5 points. And that's OK. Camara hasn't barrelled down the lane on a forced drive in several games. He doesn't need to. We have better options.
Other than Mali, nobody on this team is driving at the rim with a "4th and 1" mentality. They'll take a hard few dribbles and if it's not there, just reverse it. No worries, we'll get another shot. It's very enjoyable to watch. (Mali has my permission to put his head down.)
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01-19-2022, 09:45 AM
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Camera
has a very good all around game. He defends well and should be our leading rebounder. He has replaced Trey Landers as the big offensive rebound threat. He is not a great shooter or foul shooter. His offense on the perimeter is weak but he is strong near the bucket. He is our second best shot blocker. He shows very strong hands when rebounding and weak hands when dribbling. Too much soccer as a child? Hates to touch the ball when dribbling?
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01-19-2022, 09:56 AM
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In Devin Oliver's 1st 3 years, the guy that sat behind me referred to Devin as Mr. So Close.....because so many shots appeared they should go in but didn't. Then his senior year those shots that were so close became actual buckets.
Toumani is reminding me of this. As was pointed out, he is shooting 50% on the year. Yet Gazoo is correct, he misses a ton of bunnies. He has become the new So Close. Last night he went 3-7, but there was at least 2 shots that, as Radar pointed out, were halfway down that didn't go through. It's not that Toumani misses by a ton in distance, it is the fact that he has sooooo many shots that are SoClose to going in but don't. He'd probably be at least 60% if a decent amount of those would go down.
I'm hoping the rest of this season and then next season he pulls the Devin Oliver and gets over the SoClose hump, just like Oliver did.
And yes, I agree with everyone on here that he seems to have accepted his role and has stopped forcing drives and forcing some shots and has learned to work with others, such as DaRon, much better, and that's a big piece of the team's improvement.
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01-19-2022, 11:28 AM
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It's just not Camara that is changing his play, there are others on this team that are beginning to show the same mental attitude about playing as a 'unit'.
As we keep on saying, hearing, reading ..... Dayton is the youngest team (experience wise) in D1.
Like they claim in education: " Kindergarten is about learning to play nice with others!"
Go Flyers!
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01-19-2022, 11:45 AM
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There was a period Mikesell's senior where people were advocating that he never take another 3-pointer. Heck, there were several years where Landers was terrible from behind the arc, then senior year became a reasonable consideration. Case in point, Trey shot 20% as a junior from behind the arc, then 31% as a senior.
Personally, I don't have an issue with Camara taking some of these threes. And it doesn't appear Grant has an issue either. You're not going to see an 0-5 night from him. I don't think he's even had an 0-4 for game. A few 0-3's though. IMO, he knows when "back off".
Grant's offense is predicated on having great floor spacing and the ability stretch the floor. Camara needs to be taking some of these threes in the flow and scheme of our offense.
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01-19-2022, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
There was a period Mikesell's senior where people were advocating that he never take another 3-pointer. Heck, there were several years where Landers was terrible from behind the arc, then senior year became a reasonable consideration. Case in point, Trey shot 20% as a junior from behind the arc, then 31% as a senior.
Personally, I don't have an issue with Camara taking some of these threes. And it doesn't appear Grant has an issue either. You're not going to see an 0-5 night from him. I don't think he's even had an 0-4 for game. A few 0-3's though. IMO, he knows when "back off".
Grant's offense is predicated on having great floor spacing and the ability stretch the floor. Camara needs to be taking some of these threes in the flow and scheme of our offense.
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If he takes 1 every-other game, I'm OK with it. That's the max if you ask me, and it usually is a result of some broken play where nobody is within 10 feet of him. Other than that, the fact that he's a 62% FT shooter should tell us: there are better shots to be had.
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01-19-2022, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
If he takes 1 every-other game, I'm OK with it. That's the max if you ask me, and it usually is a result of some broken play where nobody is within 10 feet of him. Other than that, the fact that he's a 62% FT shooter should tell us: there are better shots to be had.
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Perhaps. Personally, I'm giving him a longer leash, considering the flow and spacing of the offense I referenced above, as well as factoring in expiring shot clock situations where it might very well be the best shot available in that possession.
Interesting you used his 62 FT% as an indicator of why he shouldn't be shooting threes, considering our best three point shooter (Brea) is only at 64% from the charity stripe this year.
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01-19-2022, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Perhaps. Personally, I'm giving him a longer leash, considering the flow and spacing of the offense I referenced above, as well as factoring in expiring shot clock situations where it might very well be the best shot available in that possession.
Interesting you used his 62 FT% as an indicator of why he shouldn't be shooting threes, considering our best three point shooter (Brea) is only at 64% from the charity stripe this year.
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I was aware of that when I said it, but at 14 attempts it's a bit misleading, no? 9/14 is 64% for our SECOND best three point shooter. But when a single made FT would make him a quite respectable 71% it may not be a descriptive statistic.
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01-20-2022, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I was aware of that when I said it, but at 14 attempts it's a bit misleading, no? 9/14 is 64% for our SECOND best three point shooter. But when a single made FT would make him a quite respectable 71% it may not be a descriptive statistic.
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There he goes making up stats again.
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01-20-2022, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15
There he goes making up stats again.
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No he isn’t. He is rightfully commenting that the sample size is too small to draw a meaningful conclusion.
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01-20-2022, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15
There he goes making up stats again.
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You may not be aware of a thing called a confidence interval. That is in fact a "stat", and not one I "made up." See, here's how this works. When there's a very small sample size, you have less confidence in the average (or you may see it called the "mean" but don't worry, numbers aren't angry at you!). And when there are very outsized 1-off data points it increases the "standard deviation" which impacts the confidence interval as well.
I can see this is all so very confusing for you. Have some warm milk.
But if you're with us so far, consider that Camara has taken 228 career FT's (53 at Dayton), and as a freshman shot 62.5%, then 62.1% as a soph, now 62.3% in his 3rd year. 62.5%, 62.1%, 62.3%. . . we can be pretty "confident" he's a 62%-ish shooter.
Brea has taken a total of 23 FT's in his college career. As a freshman, he was 6-9 (67%). As a sophomore, 9-14 (64%). See how the averages bounce around more with small sample sizes? Brea would need to only go 6-7 in his next few games to raise his 2021-2022 average to 71% and his career average to 70%. And as I'm sure you're aware, going 6-7 is quite possible for a GOOD shooter, but pretty hard for a bad one.
Oh but Gazoo, the stats are the stats you say. Brea has shown that WYSIWYG, he's a mediocre FT shooter, the numbers won't change much. Well Mr. Weaver, for reference, is a career 68% FT shooter. 76.2%, 55.2%, 72.0%, 82.9%. See? It's possible they can bounce around quite a bit for some players, particularly when there are fewer attempts ("sample size").
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01-20-2022, 09:33 AM
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This reminds me of being a young lawyer and having to determine the statistical significance of an event using Fisher’s formula. I was so proud when it finally worked, but the journey took me to one of the lower levels of Hell!
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01-20-2022, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
No he isn’t. He is rightfully commenting that the sample size is too small to draw a meaningful conclusion.
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BTW, to be fair, I would argue that the sample size (on 3's) for Weaver is still not overly large, which is why I wouldn't draw a final conclusion for him just yet. But it's clearly started to circle around a number. But heck he could still very much get hot, have a 4/5 game, and be solidly above 40% again.
If 1 game can reasonably change your full year outcome (or in Brea's case career outcome), then it's not fair to draw conclusions.
Last edited by Gazoo; 01-20-2022 at 03:32 PM..
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01-20-2022, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Camara is #2 on the team in assists, with 4 more tonight
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He is an incredible passer and Holmes is not far behind him.
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01-23-2022, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I was aware of that when I said it, but at 14 attempts it's a bit misleading, no? 9/14 is 64% for our SECOND best three point shooter. But when a single made FT would make him a quite respectable 71% it may not be a descriptive statistic.
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15
There he goes making up stats again.
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Brea would need to only go 6-7 in his next few games to raise his 2021-2022 average to 71% and his career average to 70%. And as I'm sure you're aware, going 6-7 is quite possible for a GOOD shooter, but pretty hard for a bad one.
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If anyone sees Kevinob15, tell him hi. Maybe give him a hug. He probably needs it right now.
I wonder what it's like watching your Flyers in a tight game hoping that Brea goes 0-5 from the line instead of 5-5?
And just like that, Brea goes from 3rd worst on the team at 64% to a darned respectable 74% on the year + 71% for his career, proving that the small sample size isn't a "made up statistic".
He could just as easily miss his next 5 as well, and it won't mean a whole heck of a lot because he shoots too few to really know for sure.
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01-23-2022, 01:24 PM
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Camara is a bad offensive player. Can't run any sets for him. Let him rebound and get the dirty points.
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01-23-2022, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
If anyone sees Kevinob15, tell him hi. Maybe give him a hug. He probably needs it right now.
I wonder what it's like watching your Flyers in a tight game hoping that Brea goes 0-5 from the line instead of 5-5?
And just like that, Brea goes from 3rd worst on the team at 64% to a darned respectable 74% on the year + 71% for his career, proving that the small sample size isn't a "made up statistic".
He could just as easily miss his next 5 as well, and it won't mean a whole heck of a lot because he shoots too few to really know for sure.
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Right here honey. Take the stats as they are and not what you want them to be or what they could be. Yes they fluctuate as the players performance fluctuates. No need for hypotheticals. And only you would suggest rooting against a Dayton player to make an argument.
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01-23-2022, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Camara is a bad offensive player. Can't run any sets for him. Let him rebound and get the dirty points.
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Amen. Where’s the guy who finished at the rim at Georgia??
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01-24-2022, 12:48 AM
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enough....
please stop
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He’s shooting less than 50% for the year. The overwhelming majority of his shots come within a few feet of the basket. That’s terrible. Maybe Georgia doesn’t really miss all the missed shots.
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01-25-2022, 07:45 PM
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And, he’s 2 for 7 tonight. When you have the offensively stunted Blakeny on the court with “never saw a shot I can’t miss Camara”, things can really big down on the offensive end.
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01-26-2022, 12:15 AM
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Camara had 11pts and 4 rebounds against scrappy Fordam. He did his job defensively. Meat and potatoes. I'll take that everyday thank you!
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01-26-2022, 04:08 AM
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yep, Georgia most likely DOES miss his presence inside...
disregard the revisionists, he's doing a job inside,
and more to come.
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01-26-2022, 07:19 AM
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I thought that Camara’s defense tonight may have been the best individual performance I’ve seen all year from a non-Holmes Flyer. He was sticking with their guards on the perimeter with ease on multiple possessions, lateral footwork was crazy for a big, then he glides in for a rebound
But the fact that neither he nor Holmes can shoot the outside shot really does hinder the offense. I’m not sure there’s a great fix for it. Teams are going to crowd the paint. Our guys just have to find a way to knock down some outside shots, or every game will be a dogfight
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01-26-2022, 08:04 AM
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I get stuck at 4 for 13. He’s under 50% for the year. Maybe Figgie can see how many inside players at UD scored 10+ points/game and shot under 50%. I draw the line at 10+/game because he’s a starter and more of a scorer (we could just draw the line at shots/game). Are my expectations just too high?
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01-26-2022, 08:59 AM
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then see if anyone has time, go back
and try and figure out how many shots
were blocked and altered by Holmes and
Camara.... I stopped counting at a baker's dozen..
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01-26-2022, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by big jordan
I thought that Camara’s defense tonight may have been the best individual performance I’ve seen all year from a non-Holmes Flyer. He was sticking with their guards on the perimeter with ease on multiple possessions, lateral footwork was crazy for a big, then he glides in for a rebound
But the fact that neither he nor Holmes can shoot the outside shot really does hinder the offense. I’m not sure there’s a great fix for it. Teams are going to crowd the paint. Our guys just have to find a way to knock down some outside shots, or every game will be a dogfight
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Agree with you on their D. Camara hit a couple outside shots last night with one being a 3 and the other around a 15' shot which I'm okay with him taking. I'm far more worried about Camara's inability to make a bunny. He had the ball a couple times down low on total mismatches with a few inches on his defender and simply can't finish a bucket. Happens multiple times just about every game.
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01-26-2022, 09:25 AM
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I think we can all hold multiple thoughts in our collective heads at once: his athleticism is phenomenal, his rebounding and hustle DO NOT lack just because he's missing layups, his upside is still fantastic, and an uncontested 15 footer is not a bad shot for him particularly under 5 seconds on the shot clock.
It's just...the layups. It's killing me.
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01-26-2022, 09:26 AM
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Oh and Brea is now a 76% FT shooter. In case anyone was wondering.
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Camara is the second coming of the first three years of Devin Oliver. Way too soft and way too many missed shots within 4 ft. Hopefully the light turns on for him…and soon! I never thought it would for DO but he proved me wrong.
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01-26-2022, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
Agree with you on their D. Camara hit a couple outside shots last night with one being a 3 and the other around a 15' shot which I'm okay with him taking. I'm far more worried about Camara's inability to make a bunny. He had the ball a couple times down low on total mismatches with a few inches on his defender and simply can't finish a bucket. Happens multiple times just about every game.
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I believe he goes to his off hand (right hand) too often... he is ambidextrous, but that may be his undoing. At times he's moving toward his left but ends up shooting it with his right hand.
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01-26-2022, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Camara is the second coming of the first three years of Devin Oliver. Way too soft and way too many missed shots within 4 ft. Hopefully the light turns on for him…and soon! I never thought it would for DO but he proved me wrong.
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Hopefully once he gets some college basketball experience it all comes together for him....remember he has only played in 77 games so far in his career and only started 68 of them. Give him time.
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01-26-2022, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Hopefully once he gets some college basketball experience it all comes together for him....remember he has only played in 77 games so far in his career and only started 68 of them. Give him time.
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Yes, I very much wish the guy who is 1st on the team in rebounding / 3rd in points / 2nd in steals was doing some things better. FG% and TO's both come to mind. If only he had 2 more years to improve those things he would be worthwhile to keep on the team for more time.
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01-26-2022, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Hopefully once he gets some college basketball experience it all comes together for him....remember he has only played in 77 games so far in his career and only started 68 of them. Give him time.
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I don't think that anyone ever said that Camara was so young and inexperienced that his strengths and weaknesses were not apparent. I think that the team youth was recognized as a significant factor in our very slow start to the season. The small movement on this board to dispute our youth relative to the entire college basketball landscape is odd to me.
That being said, I'm always cautious of people swearing off a certain shooting range for a player at this level of their development in college. We are all familiar with the Devin Oliver and Trey Landers situations. Both were sworn off by fans at certain points for certain shots or limitations on their games. In the end, both of those guys continued to develop and generally proved their doubters wrong. A lot of college players get better all the way from their freshmen seasons until their senior seasons. Sometimes that includes their shooting prowess.
Camara does a ton of things well, but his short range shooting is a bit maddening. He reminds me of Chris Wright in that respect. Both were crazy athletes. Both would make athletic moves around the rim that most other guys can't do. Both had limited shooting touch from 5 foot range.
But I reserve the right to believe it could change in his remaining 2.5 seasons. What if he finds that he is better using the glass on those shots or he decides to collect himself for the shot rather than putting all that pepper into the move? There are a lot of "mental" or "strategic decisions" that he can make that might change the whole dynamic of his scoring around the rim.
I'm not sure if he has been doing this all season or if it took me this long to recognize it, but I am becoming more and more impressed with his defense. Holmes is a great defender, but Camara is doing his part on D as well. Camara, at times, was guarding that quick little guard from Fordham and he had not problem staying with him. That is impressive to me, considering his size. And Camara is doing his part to intimidate shots inside as well. He is very versatile defensively. He went from defending the smallest Fordham player to defending the biggest at times. Trey Landers was the last guy I recall with that defensive versatility. He can switch on all screens without creating defensive mismatches. That is very valuable to the team. He is a part of what is making our team defense so good lately, IMO.
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I don't think that anyone ever said that Camara was so young and inexperienced that his strengths and weaknesses were not apparent. I think that the team youth was recognized as a significant factor in our very slow start to the season. The small movement on this board to dispute our youth relative to the entire college basketball landscape is odd to me.
That being said, I'm always cautious of people swearing off a certain shooting range for a player at this level of their development in college. We are all familiar with the Devin Oliver and Trey Landers situations. Both were sworn off by fans at certain points for certain shots or limitations on their games. In the end, both of those guys continued to develop and generally proved their doubters wrong. A lot of college players get better all the way from their freshmen seasons until their senior seasons. Sometimes that includes their shooting prowess.
Camara does a ton of things well, but his short range shooting is a bit maddening. He reminds me of Chris Wright in that respect. Both were crazy athletes. Both would make athletic moves around the rim that most other guys can't do. Both had limited shooting touch from 5 foot range.
But I reserve the right to believe it could change in his remaining 2.5 seasons. What if he finds that he is better using the glass on those shots or he decides to collect himself for the shot rather than putting all that pepper into the move? There are a lot of "mental" or "strategic decisions" that he can make that might change the whole dynamic of his scoring around the rim.
I'm not sure if he has been doing this all season or if it took me this long to recognize it, but I am becoming more and more impressed with his defense. Holmes is a great defender, but Camara is doing his part on D as well. Camara, at times, was guarding that quick little guard from Fordham and he had not problem staying with him. That is impressive to me, considering his size. And Camara is doing his part to intimidate shots inside as well. He is very versatile defensively. He went from defending the smallest Fordham player to defending the biggest at times. Trey Landers was the last guy I recall with that defensive versatility. He can switch on all screens without creating defensive mismatches. That is very valuable to the team. He is a part of what is making our team defense so good lately, IMO.
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First I want to be clear that I think this team needs Camara because he is an unbelievable rebounder, a tenacious defender and gets out on the break very well. I just don't think we should be running any offensive sets for him because he has a limited offensive skill set.
However in another thread, which I'll try to find, somebody did actually say that his offensive shortcomings were a result of his lack of experience.
EDIT: Here is the quote from another thread seven games ago:
"He is still and inexperienced red shirt sophomore, let the coaches continue to work with him."
No need to call out who said it, just shows that there are some on this board that make excuses for players no matter what the actual reality is. If the above referenced games played stats for Camara indicates inexperience, then I'd like to know what it takes to become experienced.
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
However in another thread, which I'll try to find, somebody did actually say that his offensive shortcomings were a result of his lack of experience.
EDIT: Here is the quote from another thread seven games ago:
"He is still and inexperienced red shirt sophomore, let the coaches continue to work with him."
No need to call out who said it, just shows that there are some on this board that make excuses for players no matter what the actual reality is. If the above referenced games played stats for Camara indicates inexperience, then I'd like to know what it takes to become experienced.
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He initially said "he is a sophmore" trying to point out how inexperienced he is, but later changed it to redshirt sophmore. But he is actually a junior in terms of experience.
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01-26-2022, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
He initially said "he is a sophmore" trying to point out how inexperienced he is, but later changed it to redshirt sophmore. But he is actually a junior in terms of experience.
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Did he change his assessment that he is inexperienced?
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01-26-2022, 07:53 PM
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Regardless of his experience, is it safe to say the Camara has the weakest hands of any Flyers since, since, … ???? … who? Jeff Tressler?
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01-26-2022, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Regardless of his experience, is it safe to say the Camara has the weakest hands of any Flyers since, since, … ???? … who? Jeff Tressler?
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hopefully they've got some of those hand grippers
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01-26-2022, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Regardless of his experience, is it safe to say the Camara has the weakest hands of any Flyers since, since, … ???? … who? Jeff Tressler?
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Jordy Tshimanga was no Hulk either.
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01-26-2022, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Did he change his assessment that he is inexperienced?
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He did not.
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01-27-2022, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
He did not.
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OK now I want to know who it was. Heck it could have been me!! If it was, I certainly retract that now. He is not inexperienced.
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01-27-2022, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
OK now I want to know who it was. Heck it could have been me!! If it was, I certainly retract that now. He is not inexperienced.
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It was not you.
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01-27-2022, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Regardless of his experience, is it safe to say the Camara has the weakest hands of any Flyers since, since, … ???? … who? Jeff Tressler?
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01-27-2022, 09:43 AM
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Jordy.... but none of them have the skills and ceiling
level that Camara does....
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01-27-2022, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015
Jordy.... but none of them have the skills and ceiling
level that Camara does....
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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with Camara. It’s BECAUSE of his skill and ceiling that I get more frustrated with his play. He has the ability to have a huge impact for this team. Yes, he plays great D. Yes, he is a solid rebounder and a pretty good passer. With his skillset is it too much to ask for him to finish at the rim? For him to not turn the ball over because he isn’t strong with the ball? I think most on here don’t hate him or what he brings to the team but we’re looking at a player that could dominate in the A10. I want to see THAT player more consistently.
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01-27-2022, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
I think most on here don’t hate him or what he brings to the team but we’re looking at a player that could dominate in the A10.
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And he doesn't need to shoot 40% from 3 to be that player. Just do the simple stuff he's missing in addition to what he's doing now. Like realize your handle isn't good enough to drive into 3 players, make a simple pass. Or finishing plays after doing everything else right.
He's so close.
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UD
has a player that dominates in the A-10 in DaRon Holmes.
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01-27-2022, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
has a player that dominates in the A-10 in DaRon Holmes.
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Is there a rule that we can only have 1?
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01-27-2022, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel
Wes Coffee
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John (Hans) Von Lehman
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01-28-2022, 09:41 PM
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I've only watched or been at 3 games total this year. I work odd hours. But I gametrack EVERY game on espn, cbs sports app.
THIS IS the Camara we thought we were getting. Only took him 18 games to get here. LOL..
AGAIN. Just seeing the passes and scores on Gametracker. Can't eye test it myself. So I'd like to hear impressions about his performance for URI game
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01-28-2022, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
I've only watched or been at 3 games total this year. I work odd hours. But I gametrack EVERY game on espn, cbs sports app.
THIS IS the Camara we thought we were getting. Only took him 18 games to get here. LOL..
AGAIN. Just seeing the passes and scores on Gametracker. Can't eye test it myself. So I'd like to hear impressions about his performance for URI game
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Definitely his best game as a Flyer — boards, points, assists, defense. Throw in one sensational dunk and this is the player we expected.
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02-03-2022, 11:26 AM
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I have to give Camara credit for something you might have missed.
At the end of the first half VCU went 2 for 1. VCU scored and there was about 37 seconds left on the clock. VCU ran back on defense and Camara started to take the ball out of bounds. He hesitated. Then he took the ball. Then he stood there out of bounds. And stood there some more. The clock continued to run.
By the time he inbounded the ball there was 31 seconds on the game clock, and 30 on the shot clock, ruining VCU's 2 for 1. It was freaking brilliant and I've always wondered why teams never do this at the half.
Good on you, Camara.
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02-03-2022, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I have to give Camara credit for something you might have missed.
At the end of the first half VCU went 2 for 1. VCU scored and there was about 37 seconds left on the clock. VCU ran back on defense and Camara started to take the ball out of bounds. He hesitated. Then he took the ball. Then he stood there out of bounds. And stood there some more. The clock continued to run.
By the time he inbounded the ball there was 31 seconds on the game clock, and 30 on the shot clock, ruining VCU's 2 for 1. It was freaking brilliant and I've always wondered why teams never do this at the half.
Good on you, Camara.
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Not suggesting Camara wasn't already on top of this, but several players at the end of the bench were screaming to hold that ball for several seconds, so as to run it down as close to even with the 30 second shot clock.
Not only is it brilliant on Camara's and others' behalf, but kudos to having such an engaged bench. That's a culture/coaching thing.
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02-03-2022, 02:42 PM
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then elvis makes a steal and UD gets a two for one!
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