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06-03-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
As long as they are at the end of the season...
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^^this^^
I don’t mind wearing rose-colored glasses from time to time, but this team has a lot to prove before we anoint them Top 25 status. I think the Flyers have great potential, and depth alone should make them better than last season. But we seem to forget that Davidson, VCU and probably Rhody will be very tough outs in the A-10, as will Colorado in the non-con. Maui is stacked, and AG will still be playing with new faces and new lineups. I want to believe we’ll be playing like champs out of the gate, but a slow start isn’t out of the question. And if it happens, brace yourself for a jumping-off-the-bandwagon free-for-all.
My feeling is this will be a very tough team by season’s end. And if that gets us into the Top 25, all the better. But I won’t be surprised if it takes a little while for these guys to reach their potential.
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06-03-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly
^^this^^
I don’t mind wearing rose-colored glasses from time to time, but this team has a lot to prove before we anoint them Top 25 status. I think the Flyers have great potential, and depth alone should make them better than last season. But we seem to forget that Davidson, VCU and probably Rhody will be very tough outs in the A-10, as will Colorado in the non-con. Maui is stacked, and AG will still be playing with new faces and new lineups. I want to believe we’ll be playing like champs out of the gate, but a slow start isn’t out of the question. And if it happens, brace yourself for a jumping-off-the-bandwagon free-for-all.
My feeling is this will be a very tough team by season’s end. And if that gets us into the Top 25, all the better. But I won’t be surprised if it takes a little while for these guys to reach their potential.
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I totally agree.
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06-03-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DGO67
The Flyers will not be a top 25 team at the start of the season.
Top 25 is not awarded based on "hype"...which has been voluminous at UD Pride...especially since Obi announced his return.
Should the Flyers do well in Maui, that should get enough votes by coaches and the press to break into the top 25 club. Typically, magazines like Athlon and Lindy's give UD basketball good preseason reviews, but again, hype doesn't get much attention unless you're Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or one of the other dozen perennial powers.
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And I am perfectly fine with that! Let’s prove ourselves by giving a couple perennial powers an owy in Maui!
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06-03-2019, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd
And I am perfectly fine with that! Let’s prove ourselves by giving a couple perennial powers an owy in Maui!
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Agree 100% as well
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06-04-2019, 01:44 AM
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ankings/top25/
CBS top 25+1...updated today
VCU #18...Davidson #22
Not bad for the A10 to have 2 ranked teams
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06-04-2019, 08:21 AM
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General
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Oh my, are the Flyers going under the radar screen? We will be there!
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06-04-2019, 08:47 AM
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Historically, UD seems to play best as an underdog. Have never fared well when listed as a favorite.
I hope that changes some day.
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06-04-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DGO67
The Flyers will not be a top 25 team at the start of the season.
Top 25 is not awarded based on "hype"...which has been voluminous at UD Pride...especially since Obi announced his return.
Should the Flyers do well in Maui, that should get enough votes by coaches and the press to break into the top 25 club. Typically, magazines like Athlon and Lindy's give UD basketball good preseason reviews, but again, hype doesn't get much attention unless you're Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or one of the other dozen perennial powers.
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Aren't all pre-season rankings based on hype? I think the only reason we aren't ranked already is that most "experts" spend most of their time on the obvious choices and don't dig deep. Plus, waiting to see who will transfer and obviously waiting on Obi's decision is a big factor. I expect we start showing up on ranking lists as the summer goes on.
DGO hit the nail on the head about Maui. What happens there will probably determine whether we spend much time ranked or not.
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06-04-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Historically, UD seems to play best as an underdog. Have never fared well when listed as a favorite.
I hope that changes some day.
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SeasonTicketFan: I concur about Dayton not faring well when we get ranked. I disappointingly remember when Dayton got ranked (I think it was 14th in one poll) and we went to Richmond Virginia to play Richmond. The fans were screaming “over rated-over ranked”. It was a great game, but we lost to the unranked Richmond team. Dayton immediately fell from the top 20 listing. I too hope that we can eliminate this memory in the future. I still remember their chant. It hurt.
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06-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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I believe we also lost the next game after being ranked at least once, maybe twice, during the Scoochie/Kendall/Kyle/Charles years.
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06-04-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma
SeasonTicketFan: I concur about Dayton not faring well when we get ranked. I disappointingly remember when Dayton got ranked (I think it was 14th in one poll) and we went to Richmond Virginia to play Richmond. The fans were screaming “over rated-over ranked”. It was a great game, but we lost to the unranked Richmond team. Dayton immediately fell from the top 20 listing. I too hope that we can eliminate this memory in the future. I still remember their chant. It hurt.
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That is one instance. Don't we have a pretty decent streak of losing games as a ranked team?
I fully agree that all pre-season polls are based on hype and published for the sole purpose of creating/discussing even more hype. That is particularly true of the CBS Top 25 +1, which is nothing more than the opinion of Gary Parrish who is sort of a troll in my opinion.
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06-04-2019, 03:40 PM
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David Jablonski
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Dayton Flyers: Anthony Grant provides offseason update on program
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...2UL8mxeb38WHK/
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06-04-2019, 05:17 PM
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Another updated top 25 poll...updated yesterday...this one from Jeff Goodman...VCU #19...Harvard surprisingly at #24.
https://watchstadium.com/news/colleg...ld-06-02-2019/
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06-04-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
Yes, a valuable cog in a less talented team.
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No, someone with Trey’s attitude and motor is a valuable cog in any winning program. The question is, how much will he be called upon to do? If he’s asked to provide reliable outside shooting, then he’s miscast in that role. But, if he’s asked to slash to the hoop in the halfcourt, fill an outside lane on the break, and box out and crash the glass, then he’ll make some valuable contributions.
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06-04-2019, 11:23 PM
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Dayton has been 16-2 to start seasons before and not gotten ranked. Despite some good wins. Other than the UD team that was ranked preseason, beat fellow Top-25 Ga Tech in PR, then lost to Nova, few Flyer teams get any respect out of the gate. And the voters usually have good memories as far as how we do when we do get ranked -- which is usually wet the mattress, immediately fall out, and never get back in.
We know we can score the ball about as well as any team in the country. I want to see Grant elevate the defense. His career defensive stats re: D-PPG, efficiency, KenPom etc were very close to Archie's. His VCU and Bama teams were known for being physical intimidating defensive teams, rebounders, and shot blockers. So far we havent seen that which is out of character for his squads. A lot of that was the coaching change, personnel defection and graduations, turnover, lack of depth, and youth.
If we take a major step forward on the defensive end this year, we should be fine. Matos was a PITA in our zone in the Bahamas. Quick with long arms. Defensively just having him back will be a big help. He seemed to fit into Grant's system and way of doing things like a fish to water. I think we would have seen him mature rapidly over the course of last season and made big strides in all areas sort of like Mikesell did.
With Crutcher, Obi, Mikesell, Landers, Ibi, Chatman, Chase, Jordy etc if we cant score the basketball, nobody can.
One other thing: Obi wont sneak up on anybody this year so he must get better. But, he may also strike the fear of God into them if he does. There is nobody in this league taller than 6-7 can run with him, defend him down low (consistently), or stop him from dribble-driving from the top of the key on a clear-out. From the 3pt line he's one dribble from a layup.
By the way, Obi is the best big-man passer we've had since Keith or Kanieski. You want to double him all night? He'll finish with 12 assists. Were he not so unselfish he wouldnt be so talented. With most bigs, the ball goes into the abyss and never comes out. He and Jon Axel Gudmunsson are the best non-guard passers in the A10.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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06-05-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Dayton has been 16-2 to start seasons before and not gotten ranked. Despite some good wins. Other than the UD team that was ranked preseason, beat fellow Top-25 Ga Tech in PR, then lost to Nova, few Flyer teams get any respect out of the gate. And the voters usually have good memories as far as how we do when we do get ranked -- which is usually wet the mattress, immediately fall out, and never get back in.
We know we can score the ball about as well as any team in the country. I want to see Grant elevate the defense. His career defensive stats re: D-PPG, efficiency, KenPom etc were very close to Archie's. His VCU and Bama teams were known for being physical intimidating defensive teams, rebounders, and shot blockers. So far we havent seen that which is out of character for his squads. A lot of that was the coaching change, personnel defection and graduations, turnover, lack of depth, and youth.
If we take a major step forward on the defensive end this year, we should be fine. Matos was a PITA in our zone in the Bahamas. Quick with long arms. Defensively just having him back will be a big help. He seemed to fit into Grant's system and way of doing things like a fish to water. I think we would have seen him mature rapidly over the course of last season and made big strides in all areas sort of like Mikesell did.
With Crutcher, Obi, Mikesell, Landers, Ibi, Chatman, Chase, Jordy etc if we cant score the basketball, nobody can.
One other thing: Obi wont sneak up on anybody this year so he must get better. But, he may also strike the fear of God into them if he does. There is nobody in this league taller than 6-7 can run with him, defend him down low (consistently), or stop him from dribble-driving from the top of the key on a clear-out. From the 3pt line he's one dribble from a layup.
By the way, Obi is the best big-man passer we've had since Keith or Kanieski. You want to double him all night? He'll finish with 12 assists. Were he not so unselfish he wouldnt be so talented. With most bigs, the ball goes into the abyss and never comes out. He and Jon Axel Gudmunsson are the best non-guard passers in the A10.
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I agree with all of the above but isn't Jon Axel just a decently tall guard at 6'4? Pretty sure he runs point must of the time and Davidson's site lists him as a G.
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06-05-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Dayton has been 16-2 to start seasons before and not gotten ranked. Despite some good wins. Other than the UD team that was ranked preseason, beat fellow Top-25 Ga Tech in PR, then lost to Nova, few Flyer teams get any respect out of the gate. And the voters usually have good memories as far as how we do when we do get ranked -- which is usually wet the mattress, immediately fall out, and never get back in.
We know we can score the ball about as well as any team in the country. I want to see Grant elevate the defense. His career defensive stats re: D-PPG, efficiency, KenPom etc were very close to Archie's. His VCU and Bama teams were known for being physical intimidating defensive teams, rebounders, and shot blockers. So far we havent seen that which is out of character for his squads. A lot of that was the coaching change, personnel defection and graduations, turnover, lack of depth, and youth.
If we take a major step forward on the defensive end this year, we should be fine. Matos was a PITA in our zone in the Bahamas. Quick with long arms. Defensively just having him back will be a big help. He seemed to fit into Grant's system and way of doing things like a fish to water. I think we would have seen him mature rapidly over the course of last season and made big strides in all areas sort of like Mikesell did.
With Crutcher, Obi, Mikesell, Landers, Ibi, Chatman, Chase, Jordy etc if we cant score the basketball, nobody can.
One other thing: Obi wont sneak up on anybody this year so he must get better. But, he may also strike the fear of God into them if he does. There is nobody in this league taller than 6-7 can run with him, defend him down low (consistently), or stop him from dribble-driving from the top of the key on a clear-out. From the 3pt line he's one dribble from a layup.
By the way, Obi is the best big-man passer we've had since Keith or Kanieski. You want to double him all night? He'll finish with 12 assists. Were he not so unselfish he wouldnt be so talented. With most bigs, the ball goes into the abyss and never comes out. He and Jon Axel Gudmunsson are the best non-guard passers in the A10.
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Agree on your defense comments. However, Coach Grant has never had the size or the depth necessary to play a strong physical defense. This year will be a major test for his ability to execute on the defensive side of the ball. The Flyers just haven't had the horses to be a great defensive team. In fact, their offense has been restricted for the same reasons.
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06-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Agree on your defense comments. However, Coach Grant has never had the size or the depth necessary to play a strong physical defense. This year will be a major test for his ability to execute on the defensive side of the ball. The Flyers just haven't had the horses to be a great defensive team. In fact, their offense has been restricted for the same reasons.
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Correct. AM left him s___t in year one and last year a depleted squad as well as losing a top notch defender for the year...Not sure the defenders were as bad last year as the actual defense indicated. Short bench and a few unproven guys makes it difficult to take chances on D and constantly get into the grill of opposing players especially with 3-4 guys needing to play over 30 minutes.
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06-05-2019, 09:25 AM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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Originally Posted by steve
Correct. AM left him s___t in year one and last year a depleted squad as well as losing a top notch defender for the year...Not sure the defenders were as bad last year as the actual defense indicated. Short bench and a few unproven guys makes it difficult to take chances on D and constantly get into the grill of opposing players especially with 3-4 guys needing to play over 30 minutes.
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Agree. Chris has it right. We got offense. Looking forward to seeing more defense this year. More in-your-face pressure. More shot blocking. More hail-Mary prayers (bad shots) thrown up as the shot clock expires. Ironically AGs coaching on defense last year was probably one of the best jobs I’ve seen. We weren’t “ bad”. We just had to play controlled/smart with a lot of young players, which is hard to do most of the time. We’ve all seen that freshman/sophomore who collects fouls like the first one to 5 wins. I didn’t see a lot of that last year. That’s good coaching.
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06-05-2019, 09:56 AM
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David Jablonski
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Grant: Flyers and fans have reason to be excited for 2019-20 @DaytonMBB season
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...L74yadvXsqM1K/
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06-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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In the game at Davidson last year, Jon Axel Gudmunsson played point guard quite a bit during the game, especially in the second half. He plays like a guard.
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06-05-2019, 10:53 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by Chris R
By the way, Obi is the best big-man passer we've had since Keith or Kanieski. You want to double him all night? He'll finish with 12 assists. Were he not so unselfish he wouldnt be so talented. With most bigs, the ball goes into the abyss and never comes out. He and Jon Axel Gudmunsson are the best non-guard passers in the A10.
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Disagree.
Obi was a good passer, but in no way great. He had 63 TOs and 61 assists last year, making him the second worst on the team behind Cunninham who was dreadful. (Yes I know some were charges, the same is true for Crutcher.) He made some BEAUTIFUL passes. But, when double teamed in the post, turned the ball over with regularity.
That's not to say he can't get better but I don't think he is "yet" an elite passer.
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06-05-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
That's not to say he can't get better but I don't think he is "yet" an elite passer.
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If you want to see an elite passing big watch Draymond Green tonight.
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06-05-2019, 03:42 PM
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I think some people are getting the cart in front of the horse....Let's walk before we start running
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06-05-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Disagree.
Obi was a good passer, but in no way great. He had 63 TOs and 61 assists last year, making him the second worst on the team behind Cunninham who was dreadful. (Yes I know some were charges, the same is true for Crutcher.) He made some BEAUTIFUL passes. But, when double teamed in the post, turned the ball over with regularity.
That's not to say he can't get better but I don't think he is "yet" an elite passer.
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I can only pray that whomever man's the post this season, they can finish around the rim like Josh. He often unbalanced the floor on offense and created opportunities for others without even handling the ball.
I would be shocked if Jordy can make us forget Josh.
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06-05-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Disagree.
Obi was a good passer, but in no way great. He had 63 TOs and 61 assists last year, making him the second worst on the team behind Cunninham who was dreadful. (Yes I know some were charges, the same is true for Crutcher.) He made some BEAUTIFUL passes. But, when double teamed in the post, turned the ball over with regularity.
That's not to say he can't get better but I don't think he is "yet" an elite passer.
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A couple of points here: 1) I didn't see ChrisR use the words elite or great to describe Obi's passing. He did suggest he's the best non-guard (big man) passer in the A10 and the best big man passer we've had since KW. 2) I agree with Gazoo that Obi is a good passer, and not yet great/elite.
My perspective is that Obi is a good passer and possesses some of the critical skills (that are tough to teach) to become a great passer (like court vision, unselfish play and good bball instincts). With more experience, I think he'll even be better handling the double teams, limiting the turnovers and increasing the assist count. He'll get better at 1) anticipating when it's coming, 2) identifying the right point of the defender's "commitment" to distribute the ball and 3) understanding on what nights he might actually have to attack the double team. I agree with ChrisR's assessment that if Obi is going to be constantly double teamed, he'll have plenty of nights where double digit assists will be in play.
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06-06-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Disagree.
Obi was a good passer, but in no way great. He had 63 TOs and 61 assists last year, making him the second worst on the team behind Cunninham who was dreadful. (Yes I know some were charges, the same is true for Crutcher.) He made some BEAUTIFUL passes. But, when double teamed in the post, turned the ball over with regularity.
That's not to say he can't get better but I don't think he is "yet" an elite passer.
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Turnovers are not all bad passes. Many are charges or travels. Obi is a very good passer, because he has great vision and is willing to share. He had 15 more assists, as a Frosh, than Josh, a senior, in less minutes.
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06-06-2019, 09:53 AM
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Obi was a terrible passer early on as he telegraphed so many hand-off type passes away from the basket and they got stolen.Still, Obi's passing is the least of his attributes as it really never stood out so really curious here....
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06-06-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
Obi was a terrible passer early on as he telegraphed so many hand-off type passes away from the basket and they got stolen.Still, Obi's passing is the least of his attributes as it really never stood out so really curious here....
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Disagree, once they started putting Obi in the post more his passing was very good from there. Much better than Josh was when he received the ball in the post, which is probably why there was a bit of a shift as the year went on to more Obi in the post than Josh.
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06-06-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly
^^this^^
I don’t mind wearing rose-colored glasses from time to time, but this team has a lot to prove before we anoint them Top 25 status. I think the Flyers have great potential, and depth alone should make them better than last season. But we seem to forget that Davidson, VCU and probably Rhody will be very tough outs in the A-10, as will Colorado in the non-con. Maui is stacked, and AG will still be playing with new faces and new lineups. I want to believe we’ll be playing like champs out of the gate, but a slow start isn’t out of the question. And if it happens, brace yourself for a jumping-off-the-bandwagon free-for-all.
My feeling is this will be a very tough team by season’s end. And if that gets us into the Top 25, all the better. But I won’t be surprised if it takes a little while for these guys to reach their potential.
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Hype???? We priders are not into hype. We deal in facts. We should be ranked very high. After all we get back Matos- he of the career 8 baskets who some see as a key component.
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06-06-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Hype???? We priders are not into hype. We deal in facts. We should be ranked very high. After all we get back Matos- he of the career 8 baskets who some see as a key component.
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Your constant negativity is remarkable
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06-06-2019, 03:35 PM
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Rule changes for next season are official...
-3-pt line moves back about a foot and a half to match international rules
-shot clock resets to 20 s after an offensive rebound
-technical foul for derogatory language
Read all about it in this DDN article:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...6o3hUG8xgSDXL/
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06-06-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
-3-pt line moves back a couple inches to match international rules
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Actually the 3 pt. line moves back over one foot...
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06-06-2019, 04:26 PM
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Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems to me the lights out 3pt shooters think nothing of casting it from 24 to 30 feet these days. Another foot added to the arc means little.
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06-06-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Actually the 3 pt. line moves back over one foot...
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You are correct CT Flyer... I fixed it.
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06-06-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems to me the lights out 3pt shooters think nothing of casting it from 24 to 30 feet these days. Another foot added to the arc means little.
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While not the largest sample size but a reasonable one. The past two NIT tournaments which used the international 3pt line saw teams make over 2% fewer of their threes than they did during the regular season at the shorter distance.
The great shooters will still be great, those average three point shooters will be the ones who now may see a dip.
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06-07-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
Rule changes for next season are official...
-3-pt line moves back about a foot and a half to match international rules
-shot clock resets to 20 s after an offensive rebound
-technical foul for derogatory language
Read all about it in this DDN article:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...6o3hUG8xgSDXL/
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"technical foul for derogatory language"... good luck defining what is derogatory - by my definition, no one I played with would have made it to the end of the game!
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06-07-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel
"technical foul for derogatory language"... good luck defining what is derogatory - by my definition, no one I played with would have made it to the end of the game!
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I agree. Probably to please the snowflake crowd. May be one of those that is hardly called, but then when it is will surprise the violator, and incite the home crowd. Hopefully it is only called for a really egregious taunting incident.
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06-07-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel
"technical foul for derogatory language"... good luck defining what is derogatory - by my definition, no one I played with would have made it to the end of the game!
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They can already give a T for language or non language. I think it was last season Obi got one for “starring” at the opponent after a dunk.
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06-07-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111
They can already give a T for language or non language. I think it was last season Obi got one for “starring” at the opponent after a dunk.
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It was after a block, the shooter fell down, and it looked like Obi looked down to see what happened and got "T"ed up. Followed it up with a reverse alley-oop on Dayton's last shot.
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06-07-2019, 12:11 PM
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Most big men do not have 60+ assists. Look at most 6-9 guys A/TO ratios. Obis was close to 1:1 which is almost freakish. Most big men have a 1:4, 1:5, 1:6, 1:7 A/TO ratio. They are the abyss and the ball never leaves their hands.
Obis A/TO stats are far more impressive for the position he plays than Jalens.
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06-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Most big men do not have 60+ assists. Look at most 6-9 guys A/TO ratios. Obis was close to 1:1 which is almost freakish. Most big men have a 1:4, 1:5, 1:6, 1:7 A/TO ratio. They are the abyss and the ball never leaves their hands.
Obis A/TO stats are far more impressive for the position he plays than Jalens.
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OK, fair point.
It's possible that I'm putting him against pretty tough competition in my mind. David West had 102 assists as a senior. Posey 84. Grant Golden, 3rd team all A10 this year and 6'10", had 117. That's an elite level passer--in an offense that rewards / requires assists to score.
I take your point, it's just that my eyes tell me "good" but not "freakish". I'll admit my eyes may be setting an unfairly high standard because he does so many other things so well.
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06-07-2019, 02:20 PM
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West and Posey were better players and surrounded by more talent. Are you quoting West and Poseys freshman stats? Obis teammates are not great perimeter shooters. Imagine how many passes he made that resulted in a missed open jumper.
Golden plays a motion offense of one-in/four-out. I would expect his passing stats to be much higher because Mooney doesn't coach a clearout style to let playmakers make 1v1 plays. It's all screens and back cuts. Gudmundsson plays in a similar offense but in my opinion is just a better player overall and would pass well in any offense.
Golden was as useless as nipples on a boar vs Obi. Golden is a good player but he suffers the same thing Josh did - he is very matchup dependent in order to be successful.
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06-07-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
derogatory language
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Ummm "derogatory" is extremely broad. I would imagine all sorts of colorful language flies around on the basketball court. How could this possibly be enforced? If they really expect players not to cuss on the court they are delusional.
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06-07-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
OK, fair point.
It's possible that I'm putting him against pretty tough competition in my mind. David West had 102 assists as a senior. Posey 84. Grant Golden, 3rd team all A10 this year and 6'10", had 117. That's an elite level passer--in an offense that rewards / requires assists to score.
I take your point, it's just that my eyes tell me "good" but not "freakish". I'll admit my eyes may be setting an unfairly high standard because he does so many other things so well.
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I think I’d say Obi has great instincts and court vision for a big guy but only good execution to this point.
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06-08-2019, 12:58 AM
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I checked West's frosh stats and he had 57 assists and 57 TOs. Obi pretty much had the same stats. West ended up the National Player of the Year as a senior. If Obi is doing things a former NPOY did in the same class (actually scored better, shot much better, did not rebound, steal or block as well however), I consider that an elite comparison.
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06-08-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
I checked West's frosh stats and he had 57 assists and 57 TOs. Obi pretty much had the same stats. West ended up the National Player of the Year as a senior. If Obi is doing things a former NPOY did in the same class (actually scored better, shot much better, did not rebound, steal or block as well however), I consider that an elite comparison.
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I’m expecting Obi’s rebounding and blocking to improve this year. Additionally, Obi only started 15 games last year. (That’s hard to believe even as I type it.) Averaged 26.4 minutes. Production per minute might even move his numbers closer in this comparison???
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06-08-2019, 11:15 AM
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06-08-2019, 02:19 PM
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I love AG and I’m so glad he’s UD’s coach. But as far as interviews go...I thought this wasn’t that great. I expected more meat on the bone. He did say one thing that I strongly agree with. He talked about How teams have a lot more film on Obi and that translates into team knowing a lot more about his game. I think Josh ran into some of that last year. Teams figured out his tendencies and how to take them away from him. Obi will run into that this year some.
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06-08-2019, 02:25 PM
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Agree there was a lot of "coach speak" in the interview. On balance however I like the fact that AG doesn't get involved in social media and plays it close to the vest.
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06-08-2019, 05:00 PM
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Never play poker with Anthony. He holds his cards close to his chest.
His interviews are the Jim Tressel of college basketball.
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06-08-2019, 05:27 PM
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Actually a pretty good interview. You can tell he thinks a lot of the newcomers especially Ibi and Chatman.
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06-08-2019, 09:47 PM
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Just curious --what more would you like him to say in June? I would bet even he doesn't know who his starting five will be at this point
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06-10-2019, 09:33 AM
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I thought one thing you could tell from the interview, which many of us on here have said, is that Crutcher is AG's guy and he really likes him a lot. I still expect Crutcher to get 30+ minutes per game this year even with the added depth.
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06-10-2019, 12:50 PM
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I'm sure spots are up for grabs and he wants everyone putting in the work this summer to earn them
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06-14-2019, 05:59 PM
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Holy sh*t! Look at this picture of Moulaye Sissoko that S& C Coach Ed Streit posted:
https://mobile.twitter.com/StrengthC...062661/photo/2
The look on the faces of the other Flyers says it all: that dude is a beast!
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06-14-2019, 06:45 PM
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Good night he is huge! We have our enforcer.. If he has some hops and decent hands, lookout.
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06-14-2019, 07:35 PM
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This season has real promise to be special. It's going to awesome to be able to physically matchup against any team on our schedule.
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06-16-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows
Holy sh*t! Look at this picture of Moulaye Sissoko that S& C Coach Ed Streit posted:
https://mobile.twitter.com/StrengthC...062661/photo/2
The look on the faces of the other Flyers says it all: that dude is a beast!
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I have zero knowledge of this, but, I wonder if Trey's biggest contribution to the team can be measured in pushing guys in the weight room? Given his brother's lifting regimen at tOSU I could see Trey being a heck of a worker in the weight room, and making other guys do the same.
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06-17-2019, 02:19 PM
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Was Obi doing shoulder shrugs before he could walk? Dude has some massive trapz.
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06-17-2019, 02:32 PM
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I can't think of a freshman who passes the looks test more than Sissoko ever at UD
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06-17-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows
Holy sh*t! Look at this picture of Moulaye Sissoko that S& C Coach Ed Streit posted:
https://mobile.twitter.com/StrengthC...062661/photo/2
The look on the faces of the other Flyers says it all: that dude is a beast!
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Moulaye in the bunny line is worth 10 points even before tip-off. Opponents and their crowd will be buzzing. Psychological home run.
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06-17-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
We know we can score the ball about as well as any team in the country. I want to see Grant elevate the defense.
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I'm the exact opposite. I think if anything throughout his career AG has proven by KenPom's metrics he can produce a good defensive team. I'm sure he'll do it here
Despite the statistics last year this was really flawed offensive team personal wise. One of the worst if not worst Dayton teams in the past 10 years in terms of number free throws attempted. Cunningham was the only guy to go over 100 FT attempts
Bad 3 point shooting and tying back into the lack of FT attempts was the inability of most of the perimeter guys to attack the basket and create shots for others.
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06-17-2019, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
I'm the exact opposite. I think if anything throughout his career AG has proven by KenPom's metrics he can produce a good defensive team. I'm sure he'll do it here
Despite the statistics last year this was really flawed offensive team personal wise. One of the worst if not worst Dayton teams in the past 10 years in terms of number free throws attempted. Cunningham was the only guy to go over 100 FT attempts
Bad 3 point shooting and tying back into the lack of FT attempts was the inability of most of the perimeter guys to attack the basket and create shots for others.
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Just another example where statistics lie. I think most would look at the offensive performance as quite impressive given all the limitations the team had last year.
Perhaps lack of FT nbrs was a casualty of those same limitations.
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06-18-2019, 08:40 AM
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A bunch of the defensive problems were tied to our lack of bench. You cannot be aggressive on defense, or on rebounding, when you have to watch your fouls.
Jordan was a decent defensive player, so hopefully Ibi, and whomever, are just as good. Cunningham lacked on defense, so whomever plays there should be an upgrade.
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06-18-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
I'm the exact opposite. I think if anything throughout his career AG has proven by KenPom's metrics he can produce a good defensive team. I'm sure he'll do it here
Despite the statistics last year this was really flawed offensive team personal wise. One of the worst if not worst Dayton teams in the past 10 years in terms of number free throws attempted. Cunningham was the only guy to go over 100 FT attempts
Bad 3 point shooting and tying back into the lack of FT attempts was the inability of most of the perimeter guys to attack the basket and create shots for others.
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Interesting observation.
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06-18-2019, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
A bunch of the defensive problems were tied to our lack of bench. You cannot be aggressive on defense, or on rebounding, when you have to watch your fouls.
Jordan was a decent defensive player, so hopefully Ibi, and whomever, are just as good. Cunningham lacked on defense, so whomever plays there should be an upgrade.
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06-18-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
.... so whomever plays there should be an upgrade.
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Taking up more space in the paint than Josh...who isn’t exactly a small dude.
https://twitter.com/LaFoudre32/statu...464332801?s=20
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06-18-2019, 06:44 PM
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Drawing fouls is a skill, but attempting to do so is also a risk with a short bench, as is offensive rebounding. It's also where guys get injured! I'd be shocked if there weren't directives to avoid those risks. %'s aside, I'd say they did pretty well with such a limited roster last year. It was obvious they ran out of gas towards the end. Completely different scenario ahead - one to look forward to!
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06-18-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaco2112
Drawing fouls is a skill, but attempting to do so is also a risk with a short bench, as is offensive rebounding. It's also where guys get injured! I'd be shocked if there weren't directives to avoid those risks. %'s aside, I'd say they did pretty well with such a limited roster last year. It was obvious they ran out of gas towards the end. Completely different scenario ahead - one to look forward to!
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To an extent I think this is true but some of the guys out there last year were just not good at attacking the basket/drawing contact
Obi is a guy with some more feel for the college game who should be able to attempt 150+ FTs next year
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06-18-2019, 07:38 PM
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And yet they still managed to have a highly efficient and effective season long offense. Shouldn’t those numbers have made shutting down the inside game down fairly easy? No guard able to take their man off the dribble to the hole or put it in the basket from the outside but yet no coach was able to shut down the juggernaut - hmmmmm
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06-18-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
And yet they still managed to have a highly efficient and effective season long offense. Shouldn’t those numbers have made shutting down the inside game down fairly easy? No guard able to take their man off the dribble to the hole or put it in the basket from the outside but yet no coach was able to shut down the juggernaut - hmmmmm
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I think effective needs to be in context
consider the caliber of most of the schedule. There were some very good teams on the schedule but with the down A10 there were many bad ones
The A10 was behind the MAC & Ivy League in conference rankings last year
I give you the George Mason game as microcosm of the season. The offense fell short in a lot of the losses, especially the last 4 minutes
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06-19-2019, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
I think effective needs to be in context
consider the caliber of most of the schedule. There were some very good teams on the schedule but with the down A10 there were many bad ones
The A10 was behind the MAC & Ivy League in conference rankings last year
I give you the George Mason game as microcosm of the season. The offense fell short in a lot of the losses, especially the last 4 minutes
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That’s fair but I seem to remember that we performed very well against much of that really good competition (stats wise anyway). Our offensive performance against VA , a top defensive unit was especially good as I remember.
This should be the first year where we can really judge AG fairly and reasonably on both sides of the ball.
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06-20-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
I checked West's frosh stats and he had 57 assists and 57 TOs. Obi pretty much had the same stats. West ended up the National Player of the Year as a senior. If Obi is doing things a former NPOY did in the same class (actually scored better, shot much better, did not rebound, steal or block as well however), I consider that an elite comparison.
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I believe West was an 18 year old kid as a freshman while Obi is a 22 year old man. SHOULD we expect a bit more from a 22 year old freshman athletic freak playing in a relatively weak A10? Methinks so, if Obi and we think of him on a playing field with other bona fide NBA prospects.
It's not apples-to-apples in any way, but I did say "fair point" already. Let's hope he puts up freakish numbers this year and puts all the comparisons to rest.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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06-20-2019, 05:35 PM
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Colonel
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,800
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West was a NPOY in college, a 15 year NBA player and two-time all star.
Obi has done, relatively, diddley squat in comparison. Let's hope there's a legitimate comparison before all is said and done, especially in their college careers!
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06-23-2019, 01:06 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Preble Yell
Posts: 200
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I’m stoked about the depth. It’s going to make everyone better. Especially a guy like Trey who seems to struggle to stay healthy because he gives up the body. No matter the minutes he plays I expect BETTER minutes.
Can’t wait to hear Larry call the first Ibi to Obi dunk!
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Mad Props to dUDe For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-23-2019, 07:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 14,788
Thanks: 10,086
Thanked 10,502 Times in 4,704 Posts
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Mucho A10 Awards and Recognition in Obi's Frosh year !!
Originally Posted by sheg
West was a NPOY in college, a 15 year NBA player and two-time all star.
Obi has done, relatively, diddley squat in comparison. Let's hope there's a legitimate comparison before all is said and done, especially in their college careers!
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I disagree with your comparison. Obi set himself up for well deserved Freshman recognition by impressing most of our opponents, staffs, and press corps. ROY, First Team All A10, and--
"Toppin, who was named A-10 Rookie of the Week seven times this season, set the Dayton dunks record, breaking the old record of 66. He also led the league and was fourth in the nation in field goal percentage at 67.3 percent."
Now, other than ROY in his Freshman year, tell me what David West did that was so outstandingly better. West was FOURTH in scoring on his OWN team his Freshman year.
If you compare Obi's Freshman accomplishments to West's Freshman accomplishments, the case can be made that David West is the one who did not do diddly squat. What he did do was stay in school 4 years and pile up awards. Then averaged a pedestrian 4 rbds and 5 pts his first 2 years with New Orleans. I think Toppin will handle those numbers.
Were there great expectations for West in years to come? Of course. Did he eventually fulfill them? You bet. But it did not happen to any great degree in his Frosh year. Obi created more attention his Freshman year.
Granted, West exploded his Sophomore year.
You are talking like West was a one-n-done player.
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06-23-2019, 09:53 PM
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Colonel
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,800
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I hope Obi blows away West's accomplishments, especially in college, and especially because of where he went to school . The fact is that anybody that has half the career that West did will be a very accomplished player indeed.
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to sheg For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-24-2019, 11:44 AM
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General
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Between Kroger & Esther Price
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Originally Posted by sheg
I hope Obi blows away West's accomplishments, especially in college . . .
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The one category West can keep is whining. I don't think Obi can come close, even if he wanted to.
_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink
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3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Glen Clark For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-24-2019, 01:28 PM
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General
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark
The one category West can keep is whining. I don't think Obi can come close, even if he wanted to.
_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink
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West got fouled by KW going through the self-checkout lane last week. Keith was in another country at the time, but the ref still blew the whistle.
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06-24-2019, 05:01 PM
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Brigadier General
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I disagree with your comparison. Obi set himself up for well deserved Freshman recognition by impressing most of our opponents, staffs, and press corps. ROY, First Team All A10, and--
"Toppin, who was named A-10 Rookie of the Week seven times this season, set the Dayton dunks record, breaking the old record of 66. He also led the league and was fourth in the nation in field goal percentage at 67.3 percent."
Now, other than ROY in his Freshman year, tell me what David West did that was so outstandingly better. West was FOURTH in scoring on his OWN team his Freshman year.
If you compare Obi's Freshman accomplishments to West's Freshman accomplishments, the case can be made that David West is the one who did not do diddly squat. What he did do was stay in school 4 years and pile up awards. Then averaged a pedestrian 4 rbds and 5 pts his first 2 years with New Orleans. I think Toppin will handle those numbers.
Were there great expectations for West in years to come? Of course. Did he eventually fulfill them? You bet. But it did not happen to any great degree in his Frosh year. Obi created more attention his Freshman year.
Granted, West exploded his Sophomore year.
You are talking like West was a one-n-done player.
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West as a freshman had a very good season. Started every game for a team that went to the NIT. To suggest his Freshman season compared to Obi's was "diddly squat" is way off-base. They had comparable seasons, both personally and their team.
IF OBI can do half of what DWest did the rest of his college career, UD will build him a statue.
He single handedly dismantled Dayton's best team (not necessarily most accomplished or best tourney run) in the last 20 years IMO. Why Purnell never doubled and left Waleskowski out to dry one-on-one I will never know. I was at that game in Cincy and UD came out blazing hot, jumping out to a big double digit lead in the first half. They punched Xavier in the mouth, only to have a stunned Xavier see DWest load them on his back to win a slug fest.
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Mad Props to SLUFLYER For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-24-2019, 08:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
West as a freshman had a very good season. Started every game for a team that went to the NIT. To suggest his Freshman season compared to Obi's was "diddly squat" is way off-base. They had comparable seasons, both personally and their team.
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I'll concede the "diddly squat" comment because that was just a friendly dig at sheg.
But you need to check your stats:
Obi was first team All A-10. Played the same number of games as West
Shot significantly better than Freshman West---Fg%, 3 pt%, Ft %
West posted good Freshman rebound numbers, but he didn't have to share the boards with Cunningham, Landers, and Mikesell.
And Dayton put Xavier into the NIT largely because West was still cutting his teeth.
West simply did not have the Freshman year that Obi had. As for the rest of it, we'll have to wait and see. The table is set for Obi.
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06-30-2019, 12:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Preseason predictions for the A10.
http://keaneyblue.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8022:
DDN:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...iC1xBbkBKTrDK/:
1 VCU
2 Dayton
3 Davidson
4 URI
5 SBU
6 Duquesne
7 SLU
8 GMU
9 Richmond
10 UMass
11 LaSalle
12 St Joe's
13 GW
14 Fordham
https://www.richmond.com/sports/plus...ign=user-share:
Top 7:
1. VCU
2. Dayton
3. Davidson
4. Rhode Island
5. St. Bonaventure
6. Richmond
7. Saint Louis
https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...-tennessee-vcu:
2 A10 sleepers: VCU and Davidson
Colorado a sleeper too.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hoopsnut3...05453191487491:
A-10 basketball rankings for 2019-20:
1. VCU
2. Davidson
3. Dayton
4. Rhode Island
5. Duquesne
6. St. Bonaventure
7. St. Louis
8. UMass
9. George Mason
10. Richmond
11. La Salle
12. GW
13. St. Joe's
14. Fordham
Expect 3-4 bids from league next season.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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Last edited by ud2; 06-30-2019 at 01:00 PM..
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06-30-2019, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Last edited by ud2; 06-30-2019 at 10:15 PM..
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06-30-2019, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
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I like it. Great respect from everyone except this Luddecke guy, who is a 25 year old youngster with little credibility.
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07-04-2019, 04:17 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Suburbs of Detroit
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzf_nbGD...on_share_sheet
The guys look good!
Yes, Rodney is not there... He is recovering from a facial injury & surgery that he had recently
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Mad Props to lhsgolf19 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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07-04-2019, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Have we ever had an incoming freshman like Sissoko? That's gotta make Rollo proud!
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07-05-2019, 11:11 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Suburbs of Detroit
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Dayton Basketball
Verified account
@DaytonMBB
42m42 minutes ago
More
congrats to our guys for achieving the highest summer GPA since 2012 during Summer I.
#proUD of them and their hard work on and off the court!
https://twitter.com/DaytonMBB/status...50115934756864
Cumulative 3.2 GPA is fantastic for the 1st Summer Semester! Congrats to the Guys!
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07-05-2019, 11:36 AM
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Colonel
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,127
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lhsgolf19: please share the story behind this facial injury, please?
Posted via Mobile Device
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07-05-2019, 11:49 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Suburbs of Detroit
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma
lhsgolf19: please share the story behind this facial injury, please?
Posted via Mobile Device
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It seems like it’s nothing too serious at all... Per Schwade, seemed like he just got an elbow in the face in practice and needed a procedure to get it fixed... Should be ready to go in a few weeks
Posted via Mobile Device
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07-05-2019, 12:37 PM
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Colonel
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
It seems like it’s nothing too serious at all... Per Schwade, seemed like he just got an elbow in the face in practice and needed a procedure to get it fixed... Should be ready to go in a few weeks
Posted via Mobile Device
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Ok, glad to hear that this is NOT a concussion story.
Posted via Mobile Device
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07-05-2019, 07:41 PM
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General
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: At your high 6, in a gun WEZ
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
Have we ever had an incoming freshman like Sissoko? That's gotta make Rollo proud!
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Nate Green was a strong dude, but he was 6’6”
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07-06-2019, 12:49 AM
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General
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
Dayton Basketball
Verified account
@DaytonMBB
42m42 minutes ago
More
�� �� �� congrats to our guys for achieving the highest summer GPA since 2012 during Summer I.
#proUD of them and their hard work on and off the court!
https://twitter.com/DaytonMBB/status...50115934756864
Cumulative 3.2 GPA is fantastic for the 1st Summer Semester! Congrats to the Guys!
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Would academics ever come into the equation for conference affiliation?
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07-06-2019, 06:35 AM
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Major General
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Would academics ever come into the equation for conference affiliation?
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Sure, if we want to go down to the Patriot or Ivy.
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07-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Good Archdeacon article on Matos:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...J22jbiqaeKnzH/
Says he has a medical redshirt.
Info on his injury/surgery I hadn't read before.
Last edited by Lifelong Flyer Fan; 07-12-2019 at 10:13 AM..
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07-12-2019, 12:19 PM
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Major General
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Love his comment that last year's 2nd team would beat the 1st team 7 out of 10 times.
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Radar For This Totally Excellent Post:
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07-12-2019, 01:28 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by Radar
Love his comment that last year's 2nd team would beat the 1st team 7 out of 10 times.
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From what Hansgen has said I’m not surprised. Probably also helps explain the Davis transfer.
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07-12-2019, 02:23 PM
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General
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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I'm not sure heading into a season where UD had so many line up possibilities. Given Coach Grant's penchant for defense I feel like Cohill or Matos could get some major minutes in a defensive stopper role
Money quote from the Arch article
“Coach Grant really put that on my shoulders. I’d never really been that into it before. I knew I could play good defense, but I’d never bought into it completely. Now I know what kind of a impact I can make on the defensive side and it’s something I want to just keep getting better at.”
After the job he did on Kamar Baldwin for Butler last year it'd be nice to have someone to lock up the Kellan Grady, Anthony Edward types next year
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Mad Props to OSU Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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07-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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Commander in Chief
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,326
Thanks: 4,391
Thanked 10,570 Times in 5,078 Posts
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My hopes for squad improvement this year are:
1. A lot more inside physical presence in the post.
2. Better defense. I felt that our coaching staff had to make some concessions on defense due to our very short bench last year.
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