Crosstown Brawl - Page 2

CE80 · #**101** 12-10-2011, 06:14 PM

Okay, this is the team we have to be connected at the hip with after all conference changes?

Flyer 86 · #**102** 12-10-2011, 06:18 PM

i saw the Cronin part too on Espn. He said he talked to refs a few times that they were jawing at the bench prior to the fight.

Analysts called Cronin the only adult in the room, who also professed embarassment, and sounded like the voice of reason - taking responsibility and said basketball should never be about this.

i thought he was great. Now i have to watch video of the fight. i have only see Frease's bloody face so far.

flyerfanatic86 · #**103** 12-10-2011, 06:20 PM

Couldn't have happened to two nicer programs.

1in25 · #**104** 12-10-2011, 06:22 PM

Down goes Frease, Down goes Frease, Down goes Frease!!!

Sea Bass · #**105** 12-10-2011, 06:22 PM

Cronin talked great and I commend him. Now let's see if actions speak even louder than his words.

Fudd · #**106** 12-10-2011, 06:24 PM

Mack was as unimpressive as Mick was impressive.

irishflyer1918 · #**107** 12-10-2011, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05

Very sad. What a bunch of thugs. When UD climbs back to the top--and we will someday soon--we will be doing it the right way and not selling out our University's mission like Xavier has done in admitting those guys.

Amen to that!
Posted via Mobile Device

Sea Bass · #**108** 12-10-2011, 06:25 PM

Thought Gottlieb's comments were ****ing. Whoever decided to put Holloway and Lyons in front of a microphone wins the bonehead award. For non XU fans it a chance for the world to see who they are.

Sea Bass · #**109** 12-10-2011, 06:26 PM

I really don't care if UD gets to the top. The most important thing is not to sell your soul along the journey.

bobber · #**110** 12-10-2011, 06:32 PM

I bet nothing happens to our favorite guards. Does X even have a President?

If so, he (she) won't do anything unless the Athletic Director and Coach "throw-it-in-your face" tell him he can.

Sea Bass · #**111** 12-10-2011, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by bobber

I bet nothing happens to our favorite guards. Does X even have a President?

I expect nothing to happen to Holloway, although it looked like Lyons might have thrown a few punches along the baseline.

bobber · #**112** 12-10-2011, 06:45 PM

Over on the A10 board they seem to be largely OK with the fight. WH has said that Dayton's players are just as bad a X's when it comes to trash talking.

So, there you have it. Don't complain. We're ***** too.

T-Bone 84 · #**113** 12-10-2011, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by UDBrian

I agree. He said that they would meet to decide who would remain on the team and hoped the president didn't ask him to resign afterwards. He talked about how embarassed he was and it was definitely sincere.

Can I vote for Big East Coach of the Year? Because I'm listening to the Cronin presser right now, and he gets my vote! He's got it right. Holloway & Lyons? PUNKS! THUGS! JERKS! WASTES OF DNA!

Which program/coach has the priorities in order right now? Regrettably, the Catholic university is falling WAY SHORT of the public U. Mick Cronin is a good man, who has his head on straight. Chris Mack and the entire X Admin should be taking notes. What a disgrace!

NCkevi · #**114** 12-10-2011, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by bobber

Over on the A10 board they seem to be largely OK with the fight. WH has said that Dayton's players are just as bad a X's when it comes to trash talking.

So, there you have it. Don't complain. We're ***** too.

I can't comment on how much UD players trash talk compared to x; but I can't remember seeing a UD player throwing punches and then telling the media that's how we do things at UD

Sea Bass · #**115** 12-10-2011, 07:02 PM

trash talking between players is one thing, trash talking to everyone on the opposing bench is another.

T-Bone 84 · #**116** 12-10-2011, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

Okay, this is the team we have to be connected at the hip with after all conference changes?

Maybe we can hook-up with Butler in the Horizon League?

Oops - I forgot - that means we'd need to play Wright State twice a year!

Sea Bass · #**117** 12-10-2011, 07:07 PM

FWIW, a reliable XU fan on another board stated that Frease punch a female fan after the game as he was leaving the floor.

FlyerYouBetcha · #**118** 12-10-2011, 07:10 PM

Reminds me of Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots!

Glen Clark · #**119** 12-10-2011, 07:14 PM

From the ESPN post-mortem:
"People have to understand that this is like Duke-Carolina," Holloway said of the Crosstown shootout. "I don't think people get that."

See that?
It's our fault! We don't get it!

Or maybe it's Duke/Carolina's fault, for not ending their games with bench clearing brawls . . .

__________________
The person who confesses ignorance shows it once; the person who conceals it shows it many times
- Japanese proverb

VirgM · #**120** 12-10-2011, 07:15 PM

On top of being thugs, these guys, especially TU, mouthing off like they did, saying they have no regrets, they are not very bright. I hope the Comish listens to these comments they made and acts accordingly.

And XU admiinistration, too. If Mack leaves this whitewashed, the league ought to suspend TU and Mack.

T-Bone 84 · #**121** 12-10-2011, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sea Bass

trash talking between players is one thing, trash talking to everyone on the opposing bench is another.

I hope the people who vote for the A-10 POY remember this incident once voting time rolls around. Punks should be ineligible.

And it's a shame, too, that X has taken this kind of a turn. Tyrone Hill? Class act. Brian Grant? Ditto. But somewhere between @ 1995 & now, X has become a program of punks. And a Catholic university at that. Sad, in a way.

Bill McPeek · #**122** 12-10-2011, 07:42 PM

I missed the game because I had work to do. I did see both press conferences......It is evident to me that Cronin has control of his program...Mack does not.

shapanud · #**123** 12-10-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Goode

[url]

Oh my....I would be utterly embarrassed if I were a fan. Listen to Holloway:

http://www.goxavier.com/allaccess/

I can only find the Mack interview. Did X pull the Holloway/Lyons press video from their site?

ud69 · #**124** 12-10-2011, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by shapanud

I can only find the Mack interview. Did X pull the Holloway/Lyons press video from their site?

They sure did. Originally, the Mack part did not start until about 5 minutes into the post-game video.

anthonycharles · #**125** 12-10-2011, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by CE80

Okay, this is the team we have to be connected at the hip with after all conference changes?

Thanks, but no thanks. They can go their own way, we'll go ours.

I've never been as caught up with X as many other Flyer fans. I don't have a great dislike of them, probably because I live half way across the country and have never encountered an X fan. I root for them in all of their non-conference games because it helps the conference. But watching how their team has acted the last few years, good riddance. I don't want UD to be attached at the hip with this kind of program.

Regarding past X class acts that was mentioned above, I saw Aaron Williams trying to break things up (is he an X assistant or UC?, I couldn't tell). I never had past problems with many X players like Tyrone Hill, Byron Larkin, Derek Strong, Aaron Williams, Derrick Brown and Romain Sato. It just seems in recent years, the trash talking, taunting, shoving matches, etc. have just gotten out of hand with that program. They really need to do some soul searching. Is all of this really worth it?

cj · #**126** 12-10-2011, 07:56 PM

And college basketball now has a new highlight for the day, IU over UK!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate UK!

UDBaby · #**127** 12-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Holy Hanna!!!!

Welll, fellow Priders, have to say that I've pondering my 1000th post for a little while but after watching the entire Coach Cronin postgame interview all I can say is that nothing is more fitting for this "historic UDBaby" post than a huge nod to UC coach Cronin.....The guy should be the head of the NCAA!

Seriously that was the best, most candid commentary on a complete embarrassment for both universities by someone right in the middle of the **** storm that I have ever seen!

If the President of X's phone isn't ringing off the hook from alum/donors and his email isn't crashing from the flood of angry alum then that will tell you all you need to know about X.

Now let's see what X admin intends to to about it! Lets see what's bigger at X.....the good name and rep of your university or some two bit punks that just happen to be able to play a game fairly well.

If this had happened at UD and one of our players put on such a disgraceful display at a press conference (it was like watching an interview from an episode of Gangland) you better believe that Dr. Dan would make sure that their 'gansta' arses would be cemented to the bench for a long time.....

....and if he didn't, there would be an outcry starting from LINY for sure......

I still can't believe the ***T that came out of their mouths at that press conference, to say nothing of the stream of it during the game......

Makes me think of a rather off-color but appropriate joke I heard. I'd love to ask Holloway and Lyons the following:

Does your arse ever get jealous of the **** that comes out of your mouth?

Onto the next thousand!!

Go Flyers and Go UD!

CE80 · #**128** 12-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek

I missed the game because I had work to do. I did see both press conferences......It is evident to me that Cronin has control of his program...Mack does not.

You may want to edit your post if you watch the end of the game and the brawl.

Cronin handled himself well in the press conference. Have control of his program? Not so sure.

ruechalgrin · #**129** 12-10-2011, 08:17 PM

#13 on UC should be suspended for the season. He stomped on Frease's face as he was defenseless on the floor. Unexcuseable.

If I were Xavier, I would suspend the players who did the press conference for those comments alone and add games for their "gangster" on-court antics -- trash talking and fighting.

Cronin showed class at press conference and Mack ....

bobber · #**130** 12-10-2011, 08:39 PM

Calm down, guys. Nothing is going to happen as far as X is concerned. If there are any suspensions it'll be for games against Oral Roberts or Long Beach.

Buster Goode · #**131** 12-10-2011, 08:52 PM

This says it all:

"I don't regret anything that happened" - Tu Holloway.

What a loser

Hobopotamus1 · #**132** 12-10-2011, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

The UC kid who kicked Frease when he was on the ground should be done for the year. That is usually a felony out in public.

Could not agree more. If he's not thrown out of school, something's wrong and Cronin is even more full of it than I thought.

shocka43 · #**133** 12-10-2011, 09:19 PM

I think there are only a few rational posters over on the X board...here is one that actually "gets it"...the others are all justifying their actions....go figure.

LadyMuskie lawyering for XU is all fine by me, but...

- Dez started the physicality and deserves, yes, 5 games for this. Deal with it.

- Holloway is mentally unstable in the way that Joey Votto is. Perfection, greatness, these things are taking him to the brink. His comments are just "off".

- Kenny has always been a trash talking knucklehead with a flavor of delusion to him.

- Lyons trash talk is insightful. In the Butler game he flat out pushed a player during a play.

- When Roosevelt Jones went down during the Butler game I thought it might have been classy to see if he was okay after they nailed a 3, but no one on XU thought to show sportsmanship.

- Where is Mack? Cronin is running PR circles around him.

- Suspend Tu 1 game

- Suspend Lyons 2 games

- Suspend Wells 5 games

- Sit Kenny against Oral Roberts for his trash talk and impudent behavior with a bloody face

- Why did it take so long for Mack to get his guys off the court?

- Again, Where IS MACK!!!!!!??!?!?!????!?!?!

- The idea that you have to be gangster and bully to win is just a stupid idea. Mack needs to show real leadership so these young MEN learn what leading a ethical life is like.

- FINALLY, I love how fights in basketball freak people out. In baseball, in football, in hockey, no big deal. In the end, I agree with Lady Muskie's spirit, this isn't the end of the world, and basketball fights aren't that big of deal to me, but dammit this isn't XU, this isn't good sportsmanship, this isn't even a good rivalry outcome. FIX IT MACK.

bobber · #**134** 12-10-2011, 09:25 PM

Ahh, the Xavier "ganstas".......has a ring to it, doesn't it? We all gangstas in our locker room.

Not athletes. Not college students.

The ESPN story already has about 1700 reader comments.

shocka43 · #**135** 12-10-2011, 09:29 PM

"I'm not in a position to be a decision maker," said Xavier coach Chris Mack.

You are the head coach you moron. Now we see where they get it.

frisco flyer · #**136** 12-10-2011, 09:33 PM

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...d=201112100682

"...The officials reviewed videotape of the brawl on courtside monitors after the game, trying to see what happened. They declined comment as they left the Cintas Center. A few hours later, the Atlantic 10 said that Gates, Mbodj and Wells were listed as ejected, indicating their actions were deemed the most severe..."

On a related note, I just read somewhere a statement from the UC president supporting Cronin's assertions after the game, and indicating that penalties will be swift and commensurate of the offenses. The only thing I heard so far attributed to the X administration is that they are going to punt and let the A10 handle it.

EDIT: right after posting this message I saw the following announcement from Xavier: http://www.goxavier.com/sports/m-bas...21011aaa.html#

UDDoug · #**137** 12-10-2011, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by shocka43

"I'm not in a position to be a decision maker," said Xavier coach Chris Mack.

You are the head coach you moron. Now we see where they get it.

I think he's made his decision. If it is his call he might make his players run lines once or twice, but nothing more. He's ok with what happened.

Sea Bass · #**138** 12-10-2011, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by UDDoug

I think he's made his decision. If it is his call he might make his players run lines once or twice, but nothing more. He's ok with what happened.

somehow I think Wes Coffee is not surprised.

irishflyer1918 · #**139** 12-10-2011, 09:42 PM

nothing would make me happier than wiping that smirk off XU's face on Jan 21

jumpin' joe · #**140** 12-10-2011, 09:45 PM

Holloway word for word at the post game press conference... "We got a whole bunch of gangstas in the locker room. Not thugs."
Now look up "gangsta" on google and the first match is from the Urban Dictionary...
Gangsta - A sociopathic member of the inner-city underclass, known primarily for being antisocial and uneducated. Also known for ready access to illegal drugs and weapons, and staggeringly poor marksmanship.

Sea Bass · #**141** 12-10-2011, 09:45 PM

this is the time for university presidents to earn their money, otherwise you end up looking like an incompetent moron (see Gee and the Tressel debacle).

bobber · #**142** 12-10-2011, 09:46 PM

Frankly, I want to hear that the refs, who ignored Cronin's repeated pleas to get the game under control, have officiated their last game. It is their fault just as much as it is the players.

bobber · #**143** 12-10-2011, 09:51 PM

Hours later the X president has just issued a statement saying, in essence, we have such high standards here at Xavier that I am shocked, shocked, at what happened.

Grief...this guy must not have watched his "gangstas" on the court for a number of years.

Sea Bass · #**144** 12-10-2011, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by bobber

Frankly, I want to hear that the refs, who ignored Cronin's repeated pleas to get the game under control, have officiated their last game. It is their fault just as much as it is the players.

no not really. It is all about leadership within the program.

Does anyone for a moment believe that Archie would tolerate a UD player trash talking at the opposing coaches and their bench?

Mack could have put a stop to the thuggish behavior of some players within his program, instead he does nothing. The only conclusion is that it is Ok by him.

frisco flyer · #**145** 12-10-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by bobber

Hours later the X president has just issued a statement saying, in essence, we have such high standards here at Xavier that I am shocked, shocked, at what happened.

Grief...this guy must not have watched his "gangstas" on the court for a number of years.

According to their release "A press conference will be held tomorrow with head coach Chris Mack to further address this matter. Details on the press conference will be sent out tomorrow."

I will withhold judgment until then.

shocka43 · #**146** 12-10-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by UDDoug

I think he's made his decision. If it is his call he might make his players run lines once or twice, but nothing more. He's ok with what happened.

Three suicides and a chuckle....

I sure as hell would hope not, from any University in the country, let alone one that thinks they are the shiznit.

My main observation from the entire incident, is that Xavier needs to rehash their PIO or SID position and get someone in there with half a clue. First off, you don't let kids with no PR experience take the mic in front of bloodhound reporters after a controversial event. Second, Mack needs to rethink his position as well. To say that you aren't a decision maker, when you run the **** team, is idiotic. It is called taking the higher road in front of the people that are going to make you look either good or bad (media). He can say what he wants behind closed doors to his team, but he needs to understand he is representing his university after an event like this, not representing the team. His comments are like that 40 something mom that dresses like her daughter and tries to be a friend versus a parent.

There is a ton of blame to go around with this one. From the players, to the coaches, to the officials. If Mack was dumb enough to not realize the trash talking that was going on when your team is up 20, he should be dealt with. The coaches are the first line in squashing high emotion kids. They didn't do their part, and the officials didn't control the game. The first word out of someones mouth in the second half should have resulted in an "attention getter" technical. This is after they received a stern warning headed to the locker room at the half. The BS woulds have stopped.

It will be interesting to see who puts their money where their mouth is. If X continues their trash, you can bet Mack is far from the solution, and much more of the problem.

Sea Bass · #**147** 12-10-2011, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by frisco flyer

According to their release "A press conference will be held tomorrow with head coach Chris Mack to further address this matter. Details on the press conference will be sent out tomorrow."

I will withhold judgment until then.

it's their university, do what they want. I don't care if they punish their players or not.

Certainly the XU response looks bad in comparison to the Cronin presser. However, in the end the future actions will speak louder than words.

jumpin' joe · #**148** 12-10-2011, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by ud69

They sure did. Originally, the Mack part did not start until about 5 minutes into the post-game video.

Originally Posted by shapanud

I can only find the Mack interview. Did X pull the Holloway/Lyons press video from their site?

The full press conference including Holloway/Lyons comments can be found at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gpS7PSYWcMhttp://

bobber · #**149** 12-10-2011, 10:11 PM

Ah, the lost Holloway tapes. Sort of like the lost "I Love Lucy Tapes." Usually it takes about 20 years to lose a tape, but X set a new record.......misplaced it in less than an hour.

Alberto Strasse · #**150** 12-10-2011, 10:11 PM

What coach would permit a player like Lyons appear on a post game interview when he was a primary instigator of the fight with his nonstop taunting of the opponent? IMHO Chris Mack failed in his responsibilty to protect his team from embarassing itself and the Atlantic Ten conference on national tv. Lyons articulated his version of the gangsta mentality which encourages violence to right a slight perceived by a gangster.

bobber · #**151** 12-10-2011, 10:21 PM

I know I heard Cronin begging forgiveness from his President for the actions of the his team. He sounded, genuinely, like a man who was worried about his job.

Compare and contrast that with coach "throw it in your face" who said, "I am not a decision-maker."

What a difference.

Mark_K · #**152** 12-10-2011, 10:30 PM

I don't think we have to worry too much about this type of thing happening with the Flyers based on the start of Doug Harris' article after the Alabama win...

"Before going to the bench after the University of Alabama men’s basketball team called timeout to try to stop Dayton’s momentum, senior wing Chris Johnson turned to the howling 13,102 fans and waved to them to create even more of a din.

That earned a quick glare from UD coach Archie Miller and an admonishment to knock it off."

Full article: http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...a-1295978.html

Phinhead54 · #**153** 12-10-2011, 11:05 PM

SportsCenter on the radio guy just said to expect multiple suspensions on both teams.

glfsls · #**154** 12-10-2011, 11:09 PM

First, the most responsible person in this mess is Mack. Why were the starters on the floor at that point? Could you not see this coming, just look at the end of the first half. Letting Lyons and Holloway anywhere near a press conference was stupid. His comment in the press conference shows his entire lack of understanding and leadership.
The trash talking in sports is out of control as a whole and in this case the officials share a good portion of the blame for this situation by not recognizing the potential problem after it was pointed out.
Cronin, why were his starters on the floor as well. However, this is where the two coach's are far apart. Cronin at least for now seems to understand this can effect UC and I will give him the benefit of the doubt untill we know the result of how his players are handled.
There is NO place in athletics for this type of behavior.

NCkevi · #**155** 12-10-2011, 11:19 PM

Holloway and Mark Lyons represented Xavier in the postgame news conference and didn’t do well at representing themselves and the Xavier program.

Lyons led all scorers with 19 points. He also might have led all instigators. Lyons jawed with some Cincinnati players before the game and continued during the national anthem.

The final score will be a footnote, though, even if Xavier climbs from No. 8, a spot off its highest ranking in school history, in next week’s polls. One of college basketball’s best rivalries hit rock bottom, and consequences for players on both sides await.

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/12/10/1...40&feedID=3600

ud69 · #**156** 12-10-2011, 11:29 PM

From the foxsportsohio story linked above -

And after all the brawling, Holloway was standing on the scorer's table inciting the crowd. Sick - just absolutely sick.

udx2 · #**157** 12-10-2011, 11:42 PM

It is interesting that Cronin said "I'm going to decide who is on this team going forward" while it seems that even x fans on their board note that Holloway and Lyons run the team, not Mack.

Viperstick · #**158** 12-10-2011, 11:49 PM

Not that UC players are choir boys (looking at you, Yancy Gates), but I don't think the X fans will be able to use the taunt "Catholics vs. Convicts" anymore.

frisco flyer · #**159** 12-11-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Viperstick

Not that UC players are choir boys (looking at you, Yancy Gates), but I don't think the X fans will be able to use the taunt "Catholics vs. Convicts" anymore.

Gangstas vs. Hustlas
Zip'em up!

Buster · #**160** 12-11-2011, 12:12 AM

Yes, yes, yes... But were the water fountains ok?

premania · #**161** 12-11-2011, 12:54 AM

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

As you can see in this video for the X student section, Frease takes a swipe at a fan (reportedly a UC coach's wife) after things had "calmed down".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ

shocka43 · #**162** 12-11-2011, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by premania

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

As you can see in this video for the X student section, Frease takes a swipe at a fan (reportedly a UC coach's wife) after things had "calmed down".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ

Why they even had the opportunity to interact with their fans, let alone UC fans, shows what lack of control they have over their program and players. The inmates run the institution.

Viperstick · #**163** 12-11-2011, 02:03 AM

"I was just saying it's my city right here," Holloway said. "I'm cut from a different cloth. None of them guys on that team is like me, so I don't understand. I felt disrespected for them guys to come at me and talk like that, so I let the whole staff over there and let their players know that none of them is like me.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...#ixzz1gCtyfOS9

Good to see Tu got so much out of those Xavier English classes he took.

ud2 · #**164** 12-11-2011, 02:08 AM

I was at the game, not sure what to think. I was surprised though that the brawl happened. The game was very cleanly played before the brawl happened other than the trash talking that was apparently happening throughout the game. I didn't notice any real aggressive trash talking during the game. Unfortunate incident that will involve costly consequences.

Fudd · #**165** 12-11-2011, 04:13 AM

It will be interesting to see what is said at the X press conference tomorrow. I wonder if they will be playing "gangsters paradise" in the background.

UD Sam · #**166** 12-11-2011, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by frisco flyer

According to their release "A press conference will be held tomorrow with head coach Chris Mack to further address this matter. Details on the press conference will be sent out tomorrow."

I will withhold judgment until then.

I believe that Chris Mack's thoughts on the game were pretty obvious from his press conference after the game. Holloway and Lyons were interviewed before him and Mack never refuted their comments, (i.e. Holloway saying "I don't regret anything that happened" and his comment that they are all gangstas....and he admitted to being one of the instigators).

Considering that Mack allowed Holloway to stand on the scorers table inciting the crowd after the melee...and allowed players to celebrate with fans showed me that he obviously supports (probably encourages) their trash talking during games. He knows that they play more aggressively and with an attitude when they intimidate other players. He also had to be aware of the trash talking that included not only the players on the court, but also the coaches and players on the UC bench.

I have to give Cronin a 100 for his comments after the game and Mack a 0. I can't imagine Archie or any of our previous coaches going back to Blackburn allowing that behavior. If Mack backpedals and changes his tune at the press conference tomorrow, it will be because of pressure from UC admin.

T-Bone 84 · #**167** 12-11-2011, 07:09 AM

I'd think that, within the next 48 hours, we'll see if either program exhibits any sort of "institutional control", or if it's really the inmates who are running the asylum (or in this case, the jailhouse).

And wasn't a certain vest-wearing football coach fired in part because he had failed to control his players' behavior away from the field of play? What should the penalty be for a coach who can't control his players' behavior on the field of play? And yes, I know that one case involved violations of NCAA rules and that the other involved mere antisocial, boorish behavior. But does anyone here think that either case meets the standards that you see so loftily proclaimed during the NCAA ads that appear on TV? Not me.

I'm sure our guys know how to talk a little smack themselves, but heaven help us if we ever sink to this level. So much for those guys learning "values for a lifetime" at their Catholic institution.

CE80 · #**168** 12-11-2011, 08:42 AM

After sleeping on this, I think it is the repeated pattern of poor behavior of X players over the last few years that bothers me. Looking at yesterday's incident by itself, both teams were in the wrong but to me it was the Cinci players that sent things over the edge and took things too far. The shove in the face is what took it over the edge and the punch to Frease was over the top. That said it is the lack of control exhibited by Mack in the past and yesterday that has me worked up. It will be real interesting to see of the X president steps in and shows who is in charge.

Fudd · #**169** 12-11-2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by premania

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

As you can see in this video for the X student section, Frease takes a swipe at a fan (reportedly a UC coach's wife) after things had "calmed down".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ

Hmm, whatever he did or did not do, he was surrounded by journalists with video and still cameras. You would think that some of them would have some interesting photos if he did lash out.

NCkevi · #**170** 12-11-2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by premania

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

I think, from the NCAA, throwing any punch during "a fight" is a one game suspension, but schools and conferences can add to that

MD Flyer Pride · #**171** 12-11-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by ud69

From the foxsportsohio story linked above -

And after all the brawling, Holloway was standing on the scorer's table inciting the crowd. Sick - just absolutely sick.

Isn't that interesting. Pretty brave of him. In the video, I noticed Holloway was the one hiding behind his players and standing in the background when the brawl was going on. Tu Tu... might want to wear one, as well.

howard roark · #**172** 12-11-2011, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ud69

From the foxsportsohio story linked above -

And after all the brawling, Holloway was standing on the scorer's table inciting the crowd. Sick - just absolutely sick.

During the 'Bama game, CJ pumped his arms after The Tide called a timeout due to a UD run. Archie let CJ know that it was not cool. The same thing happened last year when BG scolded CW. Just think about the difference for a moment. Our guys get corrected for a reasonable, but less than sportsmanlike response. x players, on the other hand, incite the crowd by thumping their chests after an ugly brawl (given, it was after the game), then hold a press conference to claim their actions were justified because they were disrespected. Amazing.

westchesterflyer · #**173** 12-11-2011, 09:28 AM

I can't for the life of me understand how the X players were allowed to speak in a press conference. The comments should further embarass the university. If X's administration doesn't address this aggresively I'll be shocked.

Buster Goode · #**174** 12-11-2011, 09:36 AM

It's unbelievable that Xavier allowed its players to remain on the court after UC went to their locker room. There is raw home video of the Xavier players hooting and hollering after UC left the room and Frease had to be physically restrained from attacking a UC fan. Also, the Xavier team went up into the student section and was celebrating -- that could have gotten dangerous if there were just a few brave UC fans around.

Post-game, Xavier couldn't have handled it worse, UC couldn't of handled it better in my opinion. Mack is an idiot.

st marys · #**175** 12-11-2011, 09:38 AM

Miller on Xavier/Cincinnati fight: "I'm proud of those guys and I would fully expect for them to be in a fight"

Did any one else see this comment from Sean Miller? Maybe it was taken out of context or something, but, yeesh, that sounds bad! I hope his brother doesn't think like this...

purpieschu · #**176** 12-11-2011, 09:43 AM

That post-game press conference clearly demonstrates a "lack of institutional control." I don't mean that in the "NCAA" sense of the term but really. Where was the adult that should have prevented those two "gangstas" from taking the microphone? It was sad but hilarious at the same time. This is certainly a reputation we have seen them earn over the years. This also demonstrates a clear distinction between our university and theirs. We all know, with a sense of pride, that a circus that was that post-game press conference could never happen here. I just can't stop smiling.

MD Flyer Pride · #**177** 12-11-2011, 09:52 AM

Some VERY weak comments by Xavier's President (at least the comments they showed on ESPN). Perhaps the problem starts at the top.

oRed · #**178** 12-11-2011, 10:02 AM

blame...a lot to go around in a series out of control...for starters UC allowing Fitzpatrick to go on the radio with Andy Furman and start the fire with his "Tu wouldn't start for UC" then you have the Xavier admin allowing their equal to RedScare to dictate student ticket distribution making it mandatory for 700 students to camp out for 2 days for their tickets when there are far better tickets lottery methods available today. The coaches for alllowing their players to act like idiots and having them still on the floor with a huge lead and time running out and officials for not clamping down on players and coaches etc. etc

Fudd · #**179** 12-11-2011, 10:02 AM

It's my opinion that Mack has been creating the culture in the X program that enables the kind of antics that Holloway and Lyons use to agitate their competition. If you have watched Xavier games over his tenure, you will see Holloway and Lyons staring down and jawing at opposing coaches and benches in almost every contest. It's really blatant. If you go the boards of some of their opponents you will read about these things from those close to the action.

I think coach Mack thinks of that as "toughness" that gives X a competitive edge. It will be fascinating to see if he allows it to continue now that the national spotlight will really be on the behavior and sportsmanship of X players.

UDBaby · #**180** 12-11-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by premania

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

As you can see in this video for the X student section, Frease takes a swipe at a fan (reportedly a UC coach's wife) after things had "calmed down".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ

Wow......

Am I crazy or are the students chanting "F*** UC!, F*** UC?"

And then the X players are allowed to wander the floor adding more fuel onto this riot? Before watching this particular video clip I had no idea that the scene on the floor went on for so long, and did so with what appears to be little or no intervention by anyone associated with the X basketball program.

What a disgraceful display all the way around. I'm not giving UC players any slack here either but when KIDS behave poorly, adults have to take control and from what I can see, X administration has a big issue with it's kids and it's adults.....Afterall, it was in their house......

Can you imagine Dr. Dan's reaction if the student section of the Arena started chanting F*** X?....during what could have turned into a riot?

Just another reason why we are UDBaby....and they're not!!!!

Everyone

udx2 · #**181** 12-11-2011, 10:35 AM

Apologize if posted elsewhere.

Xavier University President Michael. J. Graham, S.J. released the following statement in response to the incident at the end of this afternoon’s Xavier vs. Cincinnati men’s basketball game:

“Xavier University takes very seriously the unsportsmanlike events which occurred at the close of today’s Crosstown Shootout.

This behavior was not representative of Xavier’s standards and has no place in intercollegiate athletics.

Our basketball program is expected to, and has for so many years now, represented the highest ideals of sportsmanship and ethical conduct.

We are reviewing the incident in its entirety and, in conjunction with the Atlantic 10 Conference, will take appropriate action.

We regret that this incident happened and apologize to our loyal fans, the Xavier family and the entire Cincinnati community.

A press conference will be held tomorrow (Sunday) with head coach Chris Mack to further address this matter. Details on the press conference will be sent out tomorrow.

From UC president Dr. Gregory H. Williams:

“I’m extremely disappointed with what happened at the end of today’s Crosstown Shootout. I am reviewing this situation with (athletic director) Whit Babcock and (UC men’s basketball head coach) Mick Cronin and we are working to ensure this will never happen again.

I appreciate Coach Cronin’s strong post-game comments and I want to support his position that this behavior is not what we expect of representatives of the University of Cincinnati. We will thoroughly investigate this incident and will act swiftly and firmly. We hold our student-athletes to a high standard and this behavior will not be tolerated.”

Also, a link to an article titled "'Complete embarrassment' is understating Crosstown Shootout brawl"

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...nderstating-it

shocka43 · #**182** 12-11-2011, 11:21 AM

I personally don't have a problem with some jawing on the floor. It happened when I played and it happens now. The problem is when you have players, at the end of the game, that can't give the opponent a handshake and a pat on the back (after the jawing) and say, "See you on the next one." That's the difference, the jawing has turned unsportsmanlike, versus banter.

I still run into players that I used to play against and we still jaw and have fun with it. We joke around at the trash we used to talk, and laugh about it. Not once, did anything ever come to blows...(at least during the regular season...summer gyms were another story).

This all boils down to control, or lack thereof. Not only with X, but with any institution that allows the crap to go on. I don't see the majority of national contenders acting like idiots. That just goes to show that you can act like a man and not degrade yourself and your university in order to win.

Don't know how "gangsta" Hempstead and Schenectady, N.Y. (Lyons and Holloway's hometowns) are, but I am willing to bet they aren't Dayton proper. So when players talk about "gangstas", why is it that our players that have come from traditionally bad neighborhoods and cities don't act like idiots? Maybe it is about character and institutional leadership.

Avid Flyer · #**183** 12-11-2011, 11:24 AM

Mick's comments by Andy Katz

Cronin said late Saturday night he will meet with Cincinnati officials Sunday morning to break down the tape again. According to a source, there is an angle of the tape that wasn't on ESPN's telecast that shows Xavier's Tu Holloway instigating a scuffle with Cincinnati's Dion Dixon that the Bearcats plan to make available to all parties.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ier-musketeers

premania · #**184** 12-11-2011, 11:32 AM

Transcript of comments that so enraged Tu:

Furman: “Are you better than Tu Holloway?”
Kilpatrick: “I’ll let the fans decide…”
Furman: “I need to know. No one’s listening. Just between you and me.”
Kilpatrick: “Yes I am.”
Furman: “Would Tu Holloway start for UC?”
Kilpatrick: “Would he, with the players we have now? I would say no.”

Kilpatrick did give his fellow New Yorker some credit earlier in the interview.

“He’s pretty good. He gets everyone else on his team involved and then when it’s time for him to really…take over for his team, then that’s what he does,” Kilpatrick said.

Bad job by UC's SID for allowing Kilpatrick to talk to a guy like Furman that always will try to create controversy. But, really this is bad enough for the gangsta talk, disrespecting, body bags etc.... There were better way to answer the questions probably, but its a far cry from what X and the media would like you to believe. What would your reaction be if Chris Johnson answered the question with "He would start ahead of Dillard and Parker on our team."?

Falcon7 · #**185** 12-11-2011, 11:32 AM

Mack you are the Head Coach! Act like IT! That was pathetic on his part, he should be suspended (without pay)!

UDDoug · #**186** 12-11-2011, 12:14 PM

I Mack had any control of things after the national anthem he would have told his punk ass thugs to shut their mouth and play ball. Trash talking the UC bench and staff during the anthem is disgraceful. Then he would have benches one of his thugs after the halftime altercation. If for no other reason than he was more interested in running his mouth the playing the last set of the half.

And he would have refuted the comments in the post game presser.

Now it takes the president to set up a news conference after meeting with Mack. Clearly any actions are coming from the administration. Which is fine if that is what it takes. But those actions if left to me would include suspending Wells for the rest of the year. Holloway for 2 games and the other thug guard for 5. If Frease did throw a punch in the stands he sits for 10. And I suspend Mack for 5 for allowing the level of talking that escalated to this and for sheer stupidity afterwards. I would also consider barring students from the next game.

I think Cronin does the right thing and without prodding. There will be players who have finished their career at UC. I have talked to Mick and his dad a few times and I can say his comments are geniune. If those outcomes don't occur I almost suspect someone overrules him.

My real puzzle in this is that we have gotten to the point under NCAA rules where raising your hand to the sky on a run to the endzone is no touchdown and a 15 yard penalty but this level of taunting an trash talking is allowed on the basketball court. It is time to put in similar rules for hoops. Trash talking is a T and counts as a personal.
Posted via Mobile Device

SeasonTicketFan · #**187** 12-11-2011, 12:16 PM

I've had a chance to think a bit about Cronin's comments. I have two thoughts here.

1) How many of us have been involved in fights on a basketball court? One of my teammates jaw was broken at the end of a game in a manner similar to Frease. He was sucker punched. It was brutal. I can feel for him right now.

I've lost my cool on the basketball court. I have been the recipient of technical fouls. I have also been involved or around a few fights in pickup games. I've been restrained by teammates who kept me from making a bad situation worse. I've thrown nasty elbows and done some things that I look back as really, really stupid!!! Tempers flare on the basketball courts. You need outside influence (coaches, referees and teammates to keep you under control). In pickup games, you don't have fans who urge you and push you more out of control, so those outside influences must be more assertive. Clearly, there was a failure by Mack, Cronin, referees and team leadership across the board. As well as maturity and self control by the players.

2) Cronin mentioned that few of the players will play in the NBA, yet all coaches including Archie sell their college scholarship as the pathway to the NBA. I thought then of myself as an employer. Would I ever hire any of the main actors in yesterday's embarrassment for a job requiring a college degree? No! No! No! So what happens to these guys who may or may not finish with a degree need a job outside of basketball. Gangsta does not look good on the resume. I am sure that a booster or alum might interview them. I've interviewed former UD players before. Having UD basketball on their resume gave them advantages. But, if I was an X or UC alum, would I consider hiring any of yesterday's players (after watching the brawl, you tube video and post game conference comments). I would be very wary. So they have really negated what a degree can do for them outside of basketball.

Losing control like this will have some long term ramifications for the players, coaches and the programs. That is sad, because I do think it could have been prevented by better leadership.

ohioflyer · #**188** 12-11-2011, 12:21 PM

All will have short and distinguished careers in the NBA

UD90 · #**189** 12-11-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by MusketeerMadness

I love how everyone is giving Mick props for his postgame comments.........
No excuse for THROWING A BALL AT SOMESONE'S HEAD, punching, stomping on a defenseless person's head, and going after someone who is far away from all the action. I'll give Mick some props if he has the B***s to do what he said he would do in the postgame interview.

http://www.musketeermadness.com/boar...6d2dfce665fa7c

I wish I could find a video clip of Chris Mack whipping the ball at Wes Coffee's head.

Fair34 · #**190** 12-11-2011, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by premania

What is the penalty for taking a swing at a fan?

As you can see in this video for the X student section, Frease takes a swipe at a fan (reportedly a UC coach's wife) after things had "calmed down".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ

I was really impressed with the Xavier fans chanting f--k UC, and the team playing up to them.

FORTFLYERFAN · #**191** 12-11-2011, 12:47 PM

I wonder of anyone has the old video of Mack smacking Wes Coffee the face twice in trhe Evansville game? I think if it was sent to ESPN that might be interesting.

NCkevi · #**192** 12-11-2011, 12:48 PM

I'm glad this is being looked at: The A-10 will take into account inflammatory postgame comments made by Xavier's Holloway and Mark Lyons in deciding on any discipline.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ier-musketeers

We'll see how serious x and the a10 are about sending a message - if any suspended x players can take the court against Gonzaga (their 3rd game coming up), the punishments won't mean a thing

anthonycharles · #**193** 12-11-2011, 01:19 PM

Long Beach St. is a good basketball team. If X is missing players in that game, they will lose.

bigred · #**194** 12-11-2011, 01:31 PM

The video on the wcpo web site clearly shows Lyons throwing and landing punches.

Not sure how holloway can say they zipped up the UC players and put them in a body bag as Xavier was clearly on the losing end of the fight.

More rumors about the altercation between frease and the female UC fans. Apparently the fans were trying to take a picture of the bloodied frease and he knocked the phone out of he hands of one of the fans. A police report was filed but frease was not arrested.

bobber · #**195** 12-11-2011, 01:42 PM

The suspensions will be timed so as not to cost X any game(s). You know that's what's going to happen, don't you?

I like Doug's suggestion: Make trash talking a technical foul. Fat chance of that ever happening though.

shapanud · #**196** 12-11-2011, 01:52 PM

Cincinnati just announced suspensions: Gates, Mbodj and Ellis each got 6 and Guyn got one game.

Flyer69ers · #**197** 12-11-2011, 01:54 PM

Nice summation from S.I. posted on Drudge Report this morning:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...er.cincinnati/

(forgive me if it has already been posted)

UDBaby · #**198** 12-11-2011, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by shocka43

Don't know how "gangsta" Hempstead and Schenectady, N.Y. (Lyons and Holloway's hometowns) are, but I am willing to bet they aren't Dayton proper. So when players talk about "gangstas", why is it that our players that have come from traditionally bad neighborhoods and cities don't act like idiots? Maybe it is about character and institutional leadership.

Shocka....wrong and right!

Hempstead is a rough area, most of it anyway; and it is very densly populated and very close to NYC so Tu comes from every bit a "rough" neighborhood as any.....BUT it sure as S**T is about character and institutional leadership; and you have to look no further than Chris Wright and UD to see the difference.

While CW was a 5 Star representative of our beloved University, his family, and the Dayton community, despite the challenges of his environment, Tu Holloway on the other hand chooses to disgrace the university that has given him the opportuntity to play the game he loves while getting an education; though after watching his press conference I dare say he lacks the minimal grey matter required to appreciate and take advantage of the lottery ticket given to him...and not many others in Hempstead; and that doesn't even begin to address what a **** poor example he is to other young athelets here on LI.

CW on the other hand is the poster child for any young athlete faced the challenges of a tough hometown.

"Zip 'em up....we zipped 'em up" - What an ahole...God I gotta tell you that if he were a Flyer and he gave that press conference in a Flyer uni I would be ashamed of UD for the first time ever...which for me spans 30 years.....

shapanud · #**199** 12-11-2011, 03:48 PM

Xavier suspensions:

Tu Holloway 1 gm
Mark Lyons 2 gms
Landen Amos 4 gms
Dez Wells 4 gms

UACFlyer · #**200** 12-11-2011, 04:18 PM

.....those of you that saw the melee, these 4,6 game suspensions sound pretty tough. Are they key people? Are the suspensions tough enough?

If something like this happened involving UD,...e.g., UD vs X,....I'd be sick.