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Old 01-16-2019, 10:34 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
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VCU Thoughts

Missed first 15 minutes, so I can't really speak to what happened there. Good news is our largest deficit was only 11.

1. 9 straight to close out the first half
2. Evans didn't pick up foul 3 until significantly in the 2nd half. Not sure if we were attacking where he could foul or not.
3. Thought we handled the full court pressure pretty well, at least late first half and second half
4. Still give up too many offensive rebounds. Cunningham in particular let Santos-Silva get position on him. Rebounding is about imposing your will on who you are guarding. No excuse
5. We had a ton of chances late in the game, but from the time out with 10 seconds on shot clock to end of game, we just didn't execute.
6. Poor Davis with that ball stopping on the rim. Never seen that before
7. Landers did not impress at all tonight. Fouls and poor defense.
8. Depth hurt us when JC had 3 fouls and Toppin had 4. Still, Frankie did okay the time he was in there. We got a steal that I think he was at least partially responsible for.
9. Landers and Mikesell still can't hit threes. We had wide open looks and missed. VCU buried us all game.
10. We win this going away at the arena
11. Got to win at St Bonny this weekend.
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:46 PM
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Lack of depth really hurt tonight. I think it is primarily responsible for all our late game swoons. My fear had been the pack it in zone against the Flyers but if you have the horses , I think making us play quicker is the better route.
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:55 PM
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Only one player that can really create with the ball in their hands. Crutcher is asked to do so much for us. Not his fault. Next year we'll have more options. With Chatman on the court at the same time, Ibi, etc, teams won't be able to gang up on one guy as much late in the game when we're looking for a go-ahead basket.

VCU shot way above their pay grade tonight from deep and still barely won at home. Considering we play 6.5 to 7 guys, Im content with the result. We're way ahead of schedule.
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:58 PM
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Total ineptness coming out of the 10 second shot clock time out. Crutcher seemed to have no clue how much time was on shot clock. Despite having opportunity to get off good shot, he threw poor pass to Mikesell that had him moving away from basket, resulting in desperation three. Complete ineptness coming out of that timeout. Total meltdown there. Couldn’t believe they could look so inept after pretty decent effort on Rams home floor.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:19 PM
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I Don't Believe Dayton's Coaches

helped the Flyers win a tough road game for first place in the A-10. Most good programs drill end of game situations so the players just react and play. UD does not finish games because they look like they are facing it for the first time. They have not practiced what they are going to execute. The lack of preparation has a source. Kudos to Trey Landers for understanding the offensive disarray of the Flyer's and calling a time out.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:30 PM
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Posted this at the end of the game thread...


Yes, I'm disappointed in the outcome. Yes, we didn't make the plays at the end to seal the deal.


But this team is still light years ahead of where I thought they'd be. We just went into arguably the toughest place to play in the A-10 (aside from UD Arena) and played a very good team (likely the #1 seed seven weeks from now) even until the final seconds.


We have no depth. We have one senior. We have two true front court players in the lineup. We have six players who started their basketball careers elsewhere (only one is able to play right now). Yet with all those headwinds, this team has found a way to jell and likely challenge for an A-10 crown.


I want to win. I want to make the NCAA this year. I think this team can do that. If it can't, they'll still be a pretty darn good Flyer basketball team.


Let's beat the Bonnies at the North Pole this Saturday.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
helped the Flyers win a tough road game for first place in the A-10. Most good programs drill end of game situations so the players just react and play. UD does not finish games because they look like they are facing it for the first time. They have not practiced what they are going to execute. The lack of preparation has a source. Kudos to Trey Landers for understanding the offensive disarray of the Flyer's and calling a time out.
Well that’s one thing in Landers favor, but he was the weak link tonight. Never got on the glass and continued his atrocious 3 point shooting, again going Ofer and fouled out. Wish he’d never take a 3 again.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:47 PM
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Dayton lost another close game. It's a trend and not a fluke. Grant's in game coaching has been proved over many seasons and programs to be the weak link. Until he changes the results in close games will be the same.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Well that’s one thing in Landers favor, but he was the weak link tonight. Never got on the glass and continued his atrocious 3 point shooting, again going Ofer and fouled out. Wish he’d never take a 3 again.
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Evans go ahead 3 pointer with Landers guarding him was the shot that determined the outcome of the game even though we did not play good down the stretch! In a tie game, instead of Landers playing tight defense and being on him like glue he backed off and gave Evans way too much room to launch the shot. Kyle Davis would have been in his grill!

Landers knew he had four fouls and didn't want to foul out but in that situation you have to deny the three!

I agree we are better than most expected! On to St. Bonaventure! St. Louis and the other 4 teams besides our Flyers with one loss are all going to experience other losses so we just need to keep plugging away!
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:08 AM
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Funny. How short memories are. This game was a reverse mirror to the UMass game. UD made plays, a three point shot that changed the end of game. Tonight, the home team did the same thing.

I watched Davidson tank at the end of game against St. Joes last night on the road. Keeping players composed at end of game on the road is very difficult in this league.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Dayton lost another close game. It's a trend and not a fluke. Grant's in game coaching has been proved over many seasons and programs to be the weak link. Until he changes the results in close games will be the same.

What did AG do wrong at the end of the UMass game?
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:02 AM
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Nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with the coaching. If we execute, we win. We didn't, the home team did.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Only one player that can really create with the ball in their hands. Crutcher is asked to do so much for us. Not his fault. Next year we'll have more options. With Chatman on the court at the same time, Ibi, etc, teams won't be able to gang up on one guy as much late in the game when we're looking for a go-ahead basket.

VCU shot way above their pay grade tonight from deep and still barely won at home. Considering we play 6.5 to 7 guys, Im content with the result. We're way ahead of schedule.
I've heard this "we're way ahead of schedule" comment many times this year. Can someone point me towards this schedule? The stated goals of the program directly from the athletic director are "graduating student-athletes, consistently competing for conference championships and advancing in the NCAA Tournament.”

We are not in line for an NCAA Tournament appearance and (especially with how tough our schedule is vs. others) aren't in line with compete for the conference championship. What am I missing here? It seems like Anthony Grant is directly on his normal schedule: bring in highly talented players that & recruit at a much higher level than his peers and then have a lot of games go like last night did with poor in game decisions.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
I've heard this "we're way ahead of schedule" comment many times this year. Can someone point me towards this schedule? The stated goals of the program directly from the athletic director are "graduating student-athletes, consistently competing for conference championships and advancing in the NCAA Tournament.”

We are not in line for an NCAA Tournament appearance and (especially with how tough our schedule is vs. others) aren't in line with compete for the conference championship. What am I missing here? It seems like Anthony Grant is directly on his normal schedule: bring in highly talented players that & recruit at a much higher level than his peers and then have a lot of games go like last night did with poor in game decisions.

In case you were unaware, we lost our best incoming recruits and the cupboards were bare when AG took over.

This is technically the first full year AG has had, anyone expecting to make the tournament given the circumstances in the first 2 years has their expectations way too high.

We're only playing 7 guys, that means we can't D up as hard, play and run as hard. I think thats a large contributor to our problems. Tired legs effects shooting and decision making.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:52 AM
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I am not by any means sold on Grant. Love him as a guy, but as a coach I have always felt he needed better talent to beat you. Whereas Archie could beat you will lessor talent. That said, I have actually liked what I have seen so far in his 1.5 years.

I think we will compete for the A10 and we will compete for an NCAA bid this year. I don't think we will get either, but to act like we are miles away from our stated objective is absurd. We are playing shorthanded because Archie left the cupboard dry. He knew he was leaving when that Sr. class was done. There was very little back. We have 7 available players right now and I wouldn't take anyone back from last year. Would you want Crosby, Xerious, Miller, etc. back.

Next year, with four transfers available, Jherry back, and everyone else but Josh this team should absolutely compete for A10 and NCAA. So my view is in Grant's first year we didn't live up to athletic department goals because of a coaching change and a team decimated by graduation. This year we will compete and fall short. Next year we are back to stated goals. Sounds like a pretty good transition to me, not failure by Grant.

It is true we have to wait and see. My only point is that I think we are on a good path. If we aren't meeting the goals next year or the year after, then I'll start to grumble. I don't think I'll be grumbling.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 View Post
I've heard this "we're way ahead of schedule" comment many times this year. Can someone point me towards this schedule? The stated goals of the program directly from the athletic director are "graduating student-athletes, consistently competing for conference championships and advancing in the NCAA Tournament.”

We are not in line for an NCAA Tournament appearance and (especially with how tough our schedule is vs. others) aren't in line with compete for the conference championship. What am I missing here? It seems like Anthony Grant is directly on his normal schedule: bring in highly talented players that & recruit at a much higher level than his peers and then have a lot of games go like last night did with poor in game decisions.
How can you say we're not in line to compete for the conference championship this year? We're a top 5 conference team that just barely lost to a top 5 team on the road. We're certainly in the running for a bye right now. And again, I hope things go well this year, but next year is when we really see his recruiting efforts in work.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:25 AM
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During the None-con portion of the schedule I had been trying to figure out this team style of play. They seemed to be finding their identity both as a 'team' and as individual players. There were moments of great plays and tough grit and other times for lack of a nicer term 'stupid plays' and lack of defensive intensity.

Now with some experience under their belt it appears that here at the mid January point the team is showing a trait that there is not much that can be done about it. Yes, there are always going to be some singular 'stupid plays' some drop off in defensive pressure, but the main trend at this time is 'fatigue'.

In today's game, physicality and speed presents an issue when playing an almost Ironmen 5 approach. Playing the way that this team has to play leads to fatigue at the end of the 2nd half. Nothing indicates this better than the last 2 games, one at home, one on the road. Missing shots and struggling as measured by lost points per possession show up in vital stretches in the last 4 to 5 minutes.

Not sure there is much that can be done to overcome this 'weakness'. Substitution patterns may be adjusted but there are only so many cards in the deck. And situations in game time do not always favor the substitution.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:27 AM
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Back to our regularly scheduled postgame reflections.

I thought we missed a golden opportunity last night when Evans picked up his 4th foul. When he re-entered the game, I was hoping to see our guys attack him off the dribble in an effort to draw his 5th foul. But that never happened, and then he hit that 3 with under a minute to go that pretty much decided the game.

I’ve seen thousands of games, but was never good enough to play, so I need to ask: were Jalen and Jordan just so drained at that point that they didn’t have the legs to attack Evans off the dribble? Or, was it just poor offensive execution that prevented taking advantage of that situation?
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:30 AM
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Can we please stop making it out like the trey that Evans dropped with :33 seconds to go is what lost us the game? It was the nail in the coffin, but we had been shooting ourselves in the foot for a while before then.

The game was tied at 69 with 4:08 to go. We scored one more time after that, on a BS layup right at the end. The game wasn't lost by that one three-point basket. The game was lost because we started playing overly conservative offensively. Our shots we poor, much like the ones we consistently take at the end of the 1st half. We're not good when we play conservatively.

And, this all goes back to concerns AG has mentioned many times. We struggle to play 40-minutes of basketball. If you can only find a way to score two points in the last 4:00+ in a close game, you should expect to lose that game.

I understand the depth issues, especially since Cohill and Frankie are essentially not entities on the floor, but the core issue still remains, regardless of the underlying cause(s).

Last edited by pmcmullen; 01-17-2019 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
Can we please stop making it out like the trey that Evans dropped with :33 seconds to go is what lost us the game? It was the nail in the coffin, but we had been shooting ourselves in the foot for a while before then.

The game was tied at 69 with 4:08 to go. We scored one more time after that, on a BS layup right at the end. The game wasn't lost by that one three-point basket. The game was lost because we started playing overly conservative offensively. Our shots we poor, much like the ones we consistently take at the end of the 1st half. We're not good when we play conservatively.

And, this all goes back to concerns AG has mentioned many times. We struggle to play 40-minutes of basketball. If you can only find a way to score two points in the last 4:00+ in a close game, you should expect to lose that game.

I understand the depth issues, especially since Cohill and Frankie are essentially not entities on the floor, but the core issue still remains, regardless of the underlying cause(s).
I agree we had some crappy possessions in the last 5 min. So did VCU. In fact that is what happened all game long. It was a game of swings. Both teams made some shots and both teams botched up a number of possessions. They made a big 3 at the end along with a bunch of others. We missed too many of our 3s.

I am not happy with a loss and I have had my full of moral victories this year. This is not the game that is going to drive me nuts. Tulsa? That's another story. Had we lost to GW or UMass - I would be really p!ssed.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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This season was defined in the summer. You simply with injuries etc cant start a season with 9 guys. I was concerned about this and then watched Matos go down, he would be a significant contributor this year. The two Frosh have really struggled which leaves us with 6 guys. I think with Matos we win a few more of these close games and next year looks very bright!! Get a top four spot and win can win In Brooklyn. Josh and Trey are slumping and need to bring energy each nite. Ryan played his ass off last nite with his hustle. Cannot say the same for the two captains.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
Can we please stop making it out like the trey that Evans dropped with :33 seconds to go is what lost us the game? It was the nail in the coffin, but we had been shooting ourselves in the foot for a while before then.

The game was tied at 69 with 4:08 to go. We scored one more time after that, on a BS layup right at the end. The game wasn't lost by that one three-point basket. The game was lost because we started playing overly conservative offensively. Our shots we poor, much like the ones we consistently take at the end of the 1st half. We're not good when we play conservatively.

And, this all goes back to concerns AG has mentioned many times. We struggle to play 40-minutes of basketball. If you can only find a way to score two points in the last 4:00+ in a close game, you should expect to lose that game.

I understand the depth issues, especially since Cohill and Frankie are essentially not entities on the floor, but the core issue still remains, regardless of the underlying cause(s).
And postgame Grant indicated that he didn't have any problem with the looks they were getting the last 4 minutes.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
This season was defined in the summer. You simply with injuries etc cant start a season with 9 guys. I was concerned about this and then watched Matos go down, he would be a significant contributor this year. The two Frosh have really struggled which leaves us with 6 guys. I think with Matos we win a few more of these close games and next year looks very bright!! Get a top four spot and win can win In Brooklyn. Josh and Trey are slumping and need to bring energy each nite. Ryan played his ass off last nite with his hustle. Cannot say the same for the two captains.
We may have a better starting 5 but they played 11 guys last night with 1 playing 3 min and only 1 playing over 30 at 31 min. We played 8 with 1 at 4 min, Crutcher playing 38 and Davis and Mikesell playing 35. Absolutely agree that Matos would have made a difference - especially in a game like this.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:50 AM
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I love how people are complaining about AG say he can't coach late and doesn't know how to close out games down the stretch... So what do you call the late/close out wins against GW and Umass, a fluke? come on now... VCU executed better down the stretch AT HOME and we didn't... If this game was flipped and we played at home, I guarantee the outcome would have been different.

Take a deep breath, it's going to be ok... Still 3-1 in the conference... We will get the scalp of VCU at home in a month.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
I love how people are complaining about AG say he can't coach late and doesn't know how to close out games down the stretch... So what do you call the late/close out wins against GW and Umass, a fluke? come on now... VCU executed better down the stretch AT HOME and we didn't... If this game was flipped and we played at home, I guarantee the outcome would have been different.

Take a deep breath, it's going to be ok... Still 3-1 in the conference... We will get the scalp of VCU at home in a month.
Start the SBU game thread. We need a diversion.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Start the SBU game thread. We need a diversion.
Never mind
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Start the SBU game thread. We need a diversion.
Already did lol... look up ha
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:21 AM
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The 3 that Evans hit was a brick...it barely got 10'6" off the ground. How he made it defied physics.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
I love how people are complaining about AG say he can't coach late and doesn't know how to close out games down the stretch... So what do you call the late/close out wins against GW and Umass, a fluke? come on now... VCU executed better down the stretch AT HOME and we didn't... If this game was flipped and we played at home, I guarantee the outcome would have been different.

Take a deep breath, it's going to be ok... Still 3-1 in the conference... We will get the scalp of VCU at home in a month.
While in the double bonus, we settled for a 3 late in the shot clock in a tie game against UMass as well but the difference was that it went in. That's not exactly a winning strategy. Against GW we had our 7 point lead with 4 minutes left shrink down to 2 in the final minute. While we did win, neither are good examples of a team closing the game out strong.

Closing out games last year was an issue, but it was a "rebuilding year" and we "weren't an NCAA team" so it was accepted. Now this year we are "ahead of schedule" so it's okay to brush over it. I have a problem with that logic. If we close out a few more games this year and we're talking about the NCAA tournament instead of where we are on some hypothetical schedule.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:05 AM
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We as the Flyer Faithful admittedly are not objective no matter how hard we try. Those who are objective - Vegas - had us as five point underdogs. We lost by five points and Vegas says, "just what we expected." We lament and focus on what could have or should have happened.

If we were to lose by 15 or win by 5, then the objective people start to take notice. We must win when expected to win and \ or win when it is unexpected when we are underdogs. No bumps along the road or "bad losses."

I think we have the nucleus of a very good team in the future but I want to enjoy UD basketball this year. Start at St. Bons game.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:10 AM
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We competed hard.

Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
Nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with the coaching. If we execute, we win. We didn't, the home team did.
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It's really even simpler than that. If we were to shoot 3's like we were in UD Arena, and they shot 3's like they were in UD Arena, we win going away.

Factoring everything together, we win this game if it were played in Dayton.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:12 AM
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VCU did not have a winning strategy either then as they settled for a three in the double bonus. But it went in so maybe it is a winning strategy.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:25 AM
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Unfortunately this game once again highlights the critical importance of outside shooting in today's game. Make them, win. Miss them, lose. Since we don't have the dominating inside presence that many of the big boys do, our outside shooting will, in most cases, determine the result. Until we develop an inside presence that can defend and rebound consistently, like it or not, we are dependent on good outside shooting. As of now, I am very satisfied with Jalen's outside touch and may be about ready to find satisfaction with Jordan as well. BUT, there is no one else on the team I feel comfortable with taking treys, and especially at crunch time. No question in my mind that lack of depth and exhaustion compromises our outside touch toward the end of the game. I won't accept anecdotal citations of a few instances against weak opponents where we hit treys at crunch time as being evidence that we are OK from the outside. We need at least one, preferably two, additional RELIABLE outside shooters.
This years team is not at all disappointing. It is looking much better than I expected. But considering things realistically, we're just not there yet with depth and talent. I look still look for around twenty by season's end and will be VERY satisfied with that result, NCAA or no.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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While watching the game... initially I was happy that we were competing so well, on the road - at the toughest environment we'll face in the A10.

But then I could see where the game was trending, and it was obvious this is going to be just like the other close calls against really good teams (away from home)... and we'd come up short again.

So I'm at the point where the moral victories don't mean much any more. Bottom line is UD can't consider itself a NCAA tournament caliber team, unless it wins a few of these games.

As the season continues, I'm not talking about beating VCU at home... I'm looking at the road games @ RI, Davidson, and St Louis (and probably Duquesne).

Being someone who has played bball for about 3 decades, I can tell you I don't buy the "our guys are too tired at the end of the game to make plays". Only time I ever saw anyone fatigued or tired was in practice... not in a game (with all the stops in action and timeouts). In fact, most anyone I played with would be thrilled to know there were only a couple of subs on the bench and you were going to get to play most all of the game.

It just comes down to the coaching putting you in a position to win at the end of the game, and then the players executing.

From what I have seen, our guys just aren't executing at the end - whether it be they didn't run the action the right way, or for the most part - it just appears they were unable to make the big shot when needed (again at games away from home).

You can lament all of the things that happened during the games, but in all the games we lost - we have been right there with every team at money time.

So who will be our Schoochie Smith/Donald Smith/Negele Knight ???

Or are we going to be a NIT team this year?
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:41 PM
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Coaches at every high level of various sports believe in the fatigue issues. VCU rotated 10-11 players during the game and their coach knew it would have an impact. If it was 7 vs 7, I would agree that the other team is just as fatigued. The fatigue is not the legs but the constant bumping and pounding and players are asked to give extra effort on every play. The game is very, very physical now.

Is it a coincidence the Evans sat for several minutes and then lit up at the end of the game.

BTW. The offense stagnation at the end was not all chucking up 3s. Josh traveled on a post move right under the basket during that stretch.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post

Is it a coincidence the Evans sat for several minutes and then lit up at the end of the game.

Did he really "light it up" at the end? I thought he only made the 1 three, and then some free throws.

Honestly, for me it would be much easier to make that dagger three at the end if I was in the flow of the game... versus coming in cold off the bench.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
While watching the game... initially I was happy that we were competing so well, on the road - at the toughest environment we'll face in the A10.

But then I could see where the game was trending, and it was obvious this is going to be just like the other close calls against really good teams (away from home)... and we'd come up short again.

So I'm at the point where the moral victories don't mean much any more. Bottom line is UD can't consider itself a NCAA tournament caliber team, unless it wins a few of these games.

As the season continues, I'm not talking about beating VCU at home... I'm looking at the road games @ RI, Davidson, and St Louis (and probably Duquesne).

Being someone who has played bball for about 3 decades, I can tell you I don't buy the "our guys are too tired at the end of the game to make plays". Only time I ever saw anyone fatigued or tired was in practice... not in a game (with all the stops in action and timeouts). In fact, most anyone I played with would be thrilled to know there were only a couple of subs on the bench and you were going to get to play most all of the game.

It just comes down to the coaching putting you in a position to win at the end of the game, and then the players executing.

From what I have seen, our guys just aren't executing at the end - whether it be they didn't run the action the right way, or for the most part - it just appears they were unable to make the big shot when needed (again at games away from home).

You can lament all of the things that happened during the games, but in all the games we lost - we have been right there with every team at money time.

So who will be our Schoochie Smith/Donald Smith/Negele Knight ???

Or are we going to be a NIT team this year?
It's not about simply being tired in the sense that you're ready to pass out after running sprints with hands on hips or bending at the waist but more to the point about being both mentally fatigued and not processing things as quickly as needed and just NOT having that extra burst/lift needed to get your hand on a loose ball or the burst to turn the corner with the ball around a defender. To the naked eye it looks like MAX effort is being given but these athletes know when they're in the quick sand.UD players are going against elite athletes in the A10 even if they aren't the greatest and most skilled players...
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
The game was tied at 69 with 4:08 to go. We scored one more time after that, on a BS layup right at the end. The game wasn't lost by that one three-point basket. The game was lost because we started playing overly conservative offensively. Our shots we poor, much like the ones we consistently take at the end of the 1st half. We're not good when we play conservatively.

Ryan Mikesell appears to agree with you:

“I think we just can’t get caught up with the time, and we need to flow into our offense and get out in transition. Just because it’s at the end of the game doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get out running and get easy buckets.”

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...m0yeYRqC15cYI/
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:57 PM
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Grant is playing 7 guys, 8 if you want to count the 2 -3 min run Frankie is getting, bringing nothing but freshman off the bench, and Dayton was in a one-possession game in the toughest gym in the leagues against the best team in the conference (per kenpom). I won't say this is unprecedented, but can anyone else point to a Dayton team that was this under-manned AND inexperienced having this kind of success. Over half the rotation is under-classmen. History shows Dayton should be getting waxed on these road trips.
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
Grant is playing 7 guys, 8 if you want to count the 2 -3 min run Frankie is getting, bringing nothing but freshman off the bench, and Dayton was in a one-possession game in the toughest gym in the leagues against the best team in the conference (per kenpom). I won't say this is unprecedented, but can anyone else point to a Dayton team that was this under-manned AND inexperienced having this kind of success. Over half the rotation is under-classmen. History shows Dayton should be getting waxed on these road trips.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E...asketball_team
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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Late game offense has been a problem for this team in a number situations

@Stormin_Moorman
This might be slightly troubling: Dayton is -24 for the season after the under-8 timeout
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
And postgame Grant indicated that he didn't have any problem with the looks they were getting the last 4 minutes.
They may have had “looks” but no “legs”
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer69ers View Post
They may have had “looks” but no “legs”
I hate that when there are looks, but no legs to look at!
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Ryan Mikesell appears to agree with you:

“I think we just can’t get caught up with the time, and we need to flow into our offense and get out in transition. Just because it’s at the end of the game doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get out running and get easy buckets.”

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...m0yeYRqC15cYI/

I really like that quote from Mikesell... it's almost as if they see the clock near 4 minutes, and the free-flowing offense goes out the window.

Don't adjust your style of play based on the time remaining in the game, and maybe it won't have to come down to the other team making a three at the end.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:40 PM
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Begs the question ... why in the staffs second full year did we start the season without a full roster....Conference stinks fill the roster and win the Conference.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Begs the question ... why in the staffs second full year did we start the season without a full roster....Conference stinks fill the roster and win the Conference.
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You realize that transfers have to sit for a year? When AG was hired it was really too late to get anyone. The fact that he got crutcher an OBI so late was a miracle. Since he's got a bunch of transfers, but they are sitting on the bench and matos got hurt.

Lots of people looking to blame the coach without even thinking about the circumstances.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
You realize that transfers have to sit for a year? When AG was hired it was really too late to get anyone. The fact that he got crutcher an OBI so late was a miracle. Since he's got a bunch of transfers, but they are sitting on the bench and matos got hurt.

Lots of people looking to blame the coach without even thinking about the circumstances.
people are blaming the coach because this has been his M O for the last 8 years, his in game coaching is suspect, he is a .500 coach for the last 8 years, u cant dispute and argue that
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
people are blaming the coach because this has been his M O for the last 8 years, his in game coaching is suspect, he is a .500 coach for the last 8 years, u cant dispute and argue that

His M O is having no one on the bench and playing with 7 players, 3 being freshman? At least give it an attempt to understand the context in which you're replying.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:48 PM
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Nobody on this team could hold Jordan Sibert's jockstrap on their finest day. Pierre and Davis would also be starting on this year's team. Pollard over Trey espec do to defense. Maybe even Scoochie although I think Crutcher is his equal through two seasons.

The only thing this team has that the 2014 team didnt was Cunningham. Beyond that its the difference between bologna and porterhouse.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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I think the whole being tired thing and mentally fatigued is way overblown. Ask Clayton Custer and Ben Richardson how tired and mentally fatigued they were during the NCAA tournament last year when they were logging 36 or more minutes per game en route to Loyola's Final Four run.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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The Flyers (especially Crutcher) looked tired at the end. The depth and pressure of VCU paid off.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:03 PM
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He got Jalen his first year, they had a whole year after that to fill the roster. I really like Grant and think next year starts an explosion for UD.... but they missed this year... short roster and freshman who should be redshirted ... still think they can win In Brooklyn ... need everyone to be there!
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Nobody on this team could hold Jordan Sibert's jockstrap on their finest day. Pierre and Davis would also be starting on this year's team. Pollard over Trey espec do to defense. Maybe even Scoochie although I think Crutcher is his equal through two seasons.

The only thing this team has that the 2014 team didnt was Cunningham. Beyond that its the difference between bologna and porterhouse.
Short bench and age wise not much different in terms of roster

The. Comparison isn’t quality of team but circumstances
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
people are blaming the coach because this has been his M O for the last 8 years, his in game coaching is suspect, he is a .500 coach for the last 8 years, u cant dispute and argue that
I believe Grant is doing a good job, overall. It appears his recruiting is really good. I was disappointed with the planning and execution in the last 4 minutes last night, particularly with what transpired after the timeout. Many of our possessions down the stretch reminded me of, dare I say it, the BG years.

In 2019, Anthony Grant is no where near a .500 coach (he's well above). THAT cannot be disputed or argued.

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Old 01-17-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Short bench and age wise not much different in terms of roster

The. Comparison isn’t quality of team but circumstances
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Quality of team IS circumstances. In fact its the most important circumstance I can think of. The RecPlex winter league 4th place team is the same age and has the same short bench too.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:34 PM
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If this bologna sandwich is way ahead of schedule, what does that make a team that was merely on schedule?
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
I really like that quote from Mikesell... it's almost as if they see the clock near 4 minutes, and the free-flowing offense goes out the window.

Don't adjust your style of play based on the time remaining in the game, and maybe it won't have to come down to the other team making a three at the end.
Similar to football teams that go Tampa 2 in the last few minutes with a lead when they have been been killing it up to that point. Then get beat. All of sudden there are holes all over the field for receivers who could not get open. Mikesell had a good point.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Similar to football teams that go Tampa 2 in the last few minutes with a lead when they have been been killing it up to that point. Then get beat. All of sudden there are holes all over the field for receivers who could not get open. Mikesell had a good point.
Paul Maguire, who used to provide TV commentary on NFL games, used to say that the only thing the Prevent Defense did was prevent you from winning. Your football team would play great, attacking defense for 58 minutes...and then cough-up the lead in the last 2 minutes like a 14 year old expelling booze after a Vegas bachelor party.

Moral of the story? Until the game is clearly out of reach (one way or the other), you continue to play “your game”.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
people are blaming the coach because this has been his M O for the last 8 years, his in game coaching is suspect, he is a .500 coach for the last 8 years, u cant dispute and argue that
Arguments are easy when you just make up the facts - then finish with a strong statement in hopes nobody looks it up.

Grant is 141-107 over his last 8 seasons. So...you know...better than .500 and he is 272-132 for his career. He has 2 losing seasons out of 11 (assuming he stays above .500 this season).

Consider your claim disputed and argued.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:26 PM
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How about 212 wins not 272
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:27 PM
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.500 or .550 same ol same ol, so he is 30 games over .500 in 8 years so that’s 4 games a year, yeah that’s what we’re wanting ! Fans are screaming now give me that coach who is 17-13 every year on average, funny part is I’m rooting for AG but it just ****es me off when people act like he is great and he is as stated above
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
How about 212 wins not 272
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Typo - my bad.

Still want to claim he's a .500 coach?
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
.500 or .550 same ol same ol,
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Last 8 years I'm seeing 141-107 - maybe my sources are off, but that is 56%. Not claiming he's God's gift to coaching, nor would he, but he's doing a phenomenal job with this team.

But you go ahead and stay quiet when we win and then crawl out of your hole and complain about AG when we lose. Fortunately for the rest of us, the way he's coaching right now we won't hear from you often.

Also, why stop at 8 years? He has a longer coaching career than that...oh yeah, because stopping there makes your argument less inaccurate (but still inaccurate).

You are ignoring his 75% win percentage in the seasons before that...
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
.500 or .550 same ol same ol, so he is 30 games over .500 in 8 years so that’s 4 games a year, yeah that’s what we’re wanting ! Fans are screaming now give me that coach who is 17-13 every year on average, funny part is I’m rooting for AG but it just ****es me off when people act like he is great and he is as stated above
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Coming into this season, he's averaging 20 wins per season for his career.

Coach K was 111 - 106 in his first 8 years. Man - he was terrible.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:45 PM
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R u ******ing serious ? Phenomenal job ??? Our best win is against a team that’s 11-7
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:47 PM
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His biggest win last year was beating a non tournament team in VCU at home, that’s it
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
His biggest win last year was beating a non tournament team in VCU at home, that’s it
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I don't know why I bother - I guess I'm a glutton for pain...

Not all seasons are created equal. Look at what he had to work with last year. A group of guys who hadn't played together and didn't have a ton of talent. We weren't going to win many games with that roster. Only one of those players was his guy - and that guy is pretty darn good.

Now he has us in the conversation for an A10 title and an NCAA bid. We really shouldn't be this far along, but we are. And he has an A10 quality starting 5 sitting on the bench as right now ready to go next year (Chatman, Ibi, Matos, Chase, Jordy).

You're the kind of guy that could land a date with Cindy Crawford and then complain because she has a mole on her face.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:01 PM
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Thanks for the compliment that I could land C C lol
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:14 PM
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MNFats, why do you bother,? It's a waste of time
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
MNFats, why do you bother,? It's a waste of time
R u excited about that win against 11-7 Butler too ?
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
R u excited about that win against 11-7 Butler too ?
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Actually I was excited. Now a little less-so since IMO we are better than them and should have won.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Quality of team IS circumstances. In fact its the most important circumstance I can think of. The RecPlex winter league 4th place team is the same age and has the same short bench too.
The original post was what Dayton team had this lack of experience and depth
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I don't know why I bother - I guess I'm a glutton for pain...

Not all seasons are created equal. Look at what he had to work with last year. A group of guys who hadn't played together and didn't have a ton of talent. We weren't going to win many games with that roster. Only one of those players was his guy - and that guy is pretty darn good.

Now he has us in the conversation for an A10 title and an NCAA bid. We really shouldn't be this far along, but we are. And he has an A10 quality starting 5 sitting on the bench as right now ready to go next year (Chatman, Ibi, Matos, Chase, Jordy).

You're the kind of guy that could land a date with Cindy Crawford and then complain because she has a mole on her face.

WRONG 1000% if you think this could even happen:

"You're the kind of guy that could land a date with Cindy Crawford"

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  #74  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The original post was what Dayton team had this lack of experience and depth
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As people have cited, the most obvious comparison is between the squad of 4 seasons ago and this one. One major difference between that team and this one is, that was Archie’s 4th season, so the team was 100% his guys. This is Anthony’s 2nd season, so he’s working with a mix of holdover players and his recruits.

Also, Archie built that roster knowing he’d only have 11 scholarship players (max) to start the year. Then Big Steve was ruled ineligible, Dumb and Dumber decided larceny was a nice hobby, Bass caught 1 too many hits to the noggin, and Rogers never could get healthy and/or eligible, so we were down to 6. By contrast, Anthony inherited a roster depleted by graduation (4 senior starters on the 2016-17 squad, Archie’s last), and more dependent on freshmen than any squad in recent memory.

We all know how Archie’s last 3 recruiting classes panned-out. As of the start of the 2nd season of the Grant era, only Cunningham, Mikesell, Landers, and Davis remain out of 11 original signees. Williams, Miller, Crosby, Svoboda, Pierce, Carter, & Wright are all either gone or released from their LOIs before they even started. That’s a 36% retention rate, folks. In “1-and-done” programs, that’s fine, and to be expected. In a program known for its high graduation rate, that’s not good. And there’s plenty of blame to go around for that situation. But “it is what it is”.

Back on point. The most relevant comparison to the 2018-19 squad is the 2014-15 squad, but the difference between the two is Anthony is playing the hand he’s been dealt, while Archie largely dealt the hand of 4 years ago to himself.
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:43 AM
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NE must have been crazy for hiring Belichick after he was fired by the lowly Browns. He had a 36-44 record in five seasons. And as they say, the rest is history.

Coach K had a .553 winning percentage at Army before Duke hired him. His first three seasons, 38-47.

Who cares what Coach Grant did the previous two, four or eight years. It is what he does for us the next few years that counts. So far, the signs are good, but let's see what happens before we judge. Most on this board were fed up with Archie in his second year, then moaned and cried when he left.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:20 AM
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Simple summary of the game:
- Great effort, we played pretty well in a difficult environment
- Few shakey calls/fouls on us in the 2nd half
- Horrible coaching the last couple minutes
- How do you not use two timeouts with a 7 man rotation?
- We are the better team
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
NE must have been crazy for hiring Belichick after he was fired by the lowly Browns. He had a 36-44 record in five seasons. And as they say, the rest is history.
*Ravens
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  #78  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So far, the signs are good, but let's see what happens before we judge.
What signs are you seeing? What good wins do we have this year? Butler is 11-7.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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How about the UMass win? UMass made UD look really bad at UD arena last year. That shows improvement. If UD loses to Butler, they don’t play two strong opponents. Butler might not be as strong as the past, but it was still a good win.

This year’s team lost some close games to very good opponents. Last year’s team would have been rolled by those same teams. Last year’s team lost to inferior teams. This year’s team has not.

There has been progress. This team is much than the team on the floor last year. Enough to become an NCAA team? Probably not.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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This is not a tournament team this year. Going 15-3 and 2-1 (what it would take IMO) is not likely. Winning three days in a rowin Brooklyn going 7.5 deep is not likely.

I hope I'm wrong on the above statements.

Grant is building this program the right way. Some transfers will help speed the process along next year. A grad or juco transfer or two might have helped a little this year, but mostly likely at the expense of talent.

The team this year are total warriors, and they will all be better over the next two years than they would have been.

This is a top 25 team next year.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
What signs are you seeing? What good wins do we have this year? Butler is 11-7.
I see a team that is extremely competitive, very efficient and one that is vastly improved on defense from a year ago. I see a stable of recruits/transfers that appear to be very talented and promising, mixing in with a solid rotation of tenured players that will return next year.

Just because our best W is Butler doesn't mean that we're not seeing good things (signs) with this team and staff. That would be way too much of a black and white assessment. When Archie left and we lost most of the pending recruits, we were in a full rebuild mode.

Last "sign", I see a team that battled against some of the best teams in the country thus far (Virginia, Oklahoma, Miss St., Auburn) and demonstrated the ability to compete with those kinds of teams. That tells me that this UD team has a legitimate opportunity to win the A10 and better than a puncher's chance to win an NCAA tournament game. A year ago, I wasn't so sure we'd get that point this year.

18 months after a full rebuild, I'd say that's trending in the right direction with plenty of signs of optimism. Anyone who can't resonate with that, most likely has 1) a different agenda (see udscott) or 2) expectations that were/are misaligned.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
What signs are you seeing? What good wins do we have this year? Butler is 11-7.
It's not just in the wins. You can find encouragement in the losses. I was (and still am) encouraged that we were down 4 to Virginia with 1:30 to go.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
It's not just in the wins. You can find encouragement in the losses. I was (and still am) encouraged that we were down 4 to Virginia with 1:30 to go.
Yes sir. Actually, it was down 4 with 1:08 to play at the close of what was a solid defensive set/possession by the Flyers as a Cavalier, who averages just one made three-pointer/game, drained a triple as the shot clock was winding down to less than 5.
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Yes sir. Actually, it was down 4 with 1:08 to play at the close of what was a solid defensive set/possession by the Flyers as a Cavalier, who averages just one made three-pointer/game, drained a triple as the shot clock was winding down to less than 5.
Actually, that 3 he drained was right at the shot-clock buzzer.....Clearly got it off but the ball was just out of his hands when the light came on..
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Actually, that 3 he drained was right at the shot-clock buzzer.....Clearly got it off but the ball was just out of his hands when the light came on..
And don't forget the moving screen that allowed him to get free for that shot.
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Old 01-18-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
What signs are you seeing? What good wins do we have this year? Butler is 11-7.
Let's lay the cards on the table here.

From day 1, you've been on the #FireGrant train. Success at VCU means nothing, since he didn't succeed at Alabama. We get that.

The true question here, though, is what will it take for you to accept Grant is advancing this program back to NCAA caliber results. What are your parameters of success for Grant? This way we can have a realistic reason to listen and/or respond to your posts.

I get it, you want to be the one that pointed to everyone supporting Grant now, and say, "ha ha! Told ya so!" If there is no way for you to change your opinion on the type of coach Grant is, and if he can get this program back to NCAA caliber, then there is no reason to listen/respond, because it just makes you an internet troll.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Let's lay the cards on the table here.

From day 1, you've been on the #FireGrant train. Success at VCU means nothing, since he didn't succeed at Alabama. We get that.

The true question here, though, is what will it take for you to accept Grant is advancing this program back to NCAA caliber results. What are your parameters of success for Grant? This way we can have a realistic reason to listen and/or respond to your posts.

I get it, you want to be the one that pointed to everyone supporting Grant now, and say, "ha ha! Told ya so!" If there is no way for you to change your opinion on the type of coach Grant is, and if he can get this program back to NCAA caliber, then there is no reason to listen/respond, because it just makes you an internet troll.
I know your not talking to me, but I'm in the same boat so I will tell you, exactly what you said, getting this program back to NCAA march madness tournament team, top 50 program, he don't have to make the dance every year but lets say 3 out of 5 years, but u can type all the excuses you want, the reasons why not but at the end of the day your record is what you are and AS OF THIS DISCUSSION, he is a .500 coach with UD and his best win in 2 years is beating a 11-7 butler team at this point
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
I know your not talking to me, but I'm in the same boat so I will tell you, exactly what you said, getting this program back to NCAA march madness tournament team, top 50 program, he don't have to make the dance every year but lets say 3 out of 5 years, but u can type all the excuses you want, the reasons why not but at the end of the day your record is what you are and AS OF THIS DISCUSSION, he is a .500 coach with UD and his best win in 2 years is beating a 11-7 butler team at this point
The problem with the no excuses BS is it is completely lost in reality. That mentality says the greatest coach can take walk ons and win every game.


Injuries, depleted recruiting classes are part of reality.

When Archie was hired, he knew year three was his going to be his make or break year. He overachieved his first year and his second year was very disappointing. Mid way through his third year, fans on this board were lobbying for Bruce Pearl. UD stayed with Archie and it paid off. Maybe they knew something that the average impatient fan did not.

Would you screamed to fire Archie in year 3? Way below .5oo in A10 at that time. Unproven coach. floundering.... He had injuries big time, but that did not matter to the fans then.


You can moan and groan about his record (just over .500) so far, but it was obvious last year was clean house to build to the future. If you can’t see that, then you know nothing about D1 basketball. Nothing.

UD wants to go to the dance EVERY year. Period. Not 3 out of 5. In today’s stacked deck, 3 out of 5 is not easy. UD should aspire for that.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
You can moan and groan about his record (just over .500) so far, but it was obvious last year was clean house to build to the future. If you can’t see that, then you know nothing about D1 basketball. Nothing.

Exactly. In Archdeacon's article about Larry and Bucky, Larry said AG could have won more games last season had he played the complainers more. But he was setting a tone and building a culture. Both Larry and Bucky think the future looks very bright. I don't even acknowledge the 14-17 record when evaluating AG considering the mess he inherited. I give him credit for sacrificing a few wins last season in an attempt to adjust some attitudes and build a culture. With the number of transfers sitting out this season, it appears he is pointing toward next season as the breakout season. I think most reasonable people think we are ahead of schedule right now.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
There has been progress. This team is much than the team on the floor last year. Enough to become an NCAA team? Probably not.
Maybe not...but they have just as much of a chance as in seasons past. I think they may surprise people. SBU will tell us something tomorrow.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Exactly. In Archdeacon's article about Larry and Bucky, Larry said AG could have won more games last season had he played the complainers more. But he was setting a tone and building a culture.
That is how you build and sustain a winning program.
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  #92  
Old 01-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
WRONG 1000% if you think this could even happen:

"You're the kind of guy that could land a date with Cindy Crawford"
I'm sure when Cindy was younger she went out on a couple blind dates with a total complaining loser. It could have happened...
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  #93  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Let's lay the cards on the table here.

From day 1, you've been on the #FireGrant train. Success at VCU means nothing, since he didn't succeed at Alabama. We get that.

The true question here, though, is what will it take for you to accept Grant is advancing this program back to NCAA caliber results. What are your parameters of success for Grant? This way we can have a realistic reason to listen and/or respond to your posts.

I get it, you want to be the one that pointed to everyone supporting Grant now, and say, "ha ha! Told ya so!" If there is no way for you to change your opinion on the type of coach Grant is, and if he can get this program back to NCAA caliber, then there is no reason to listen/respond, because it just makes you an internet troll.
Should have at least made the NIT last year or this year. We were coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances.

Should make the NCAAT next year.

IMO, neither one of those things is going to happen.

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.

We will not make the NCAAT next year.

We are not on schedule.

We are not ahead of schedule.

We are definitely behind schedule.

It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.

Not buying any of the Archie left a bare cupboard nonsense.

We had 5? guys leave last year. Grant is doing something to alienate his players. 1 or 2 leaving is normal, 5 at an A10 school like UD is highly unusual IMO.

I expect Grant to do as well as or better than Archie, he has a lot of work to do to meet that standard.

Last edited by ud2; 01-19-2019 at 10:52 PM..
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  #94  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Should have at least made the NIT last year or this year. We were coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances.

Should make the NCAAT next year.

IMO, neither one of those things is going to happen.

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.

We will not make the NCAAT next year.

We are not on schedule.

We are not ahead of schedule.

We are definitely behind schedule.

It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.

Not buying any of the Archie left a bare cupboard nonsense.

We had 5? guys leave last year. Grant is doing something to alienate his players. 1 or 2 leaving is normal, 5 at a A10 school like UD is highly unusual IMO.
You could use a beer and some sex..........and maybe a shot of reality. OK, so just a beer then, I guess.
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  #95  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Should have at least made the NIT last year or this year.

Should make the NCAAT next year.

IMO, neither one of those things is going to happen.

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.

We will not make the NCAAT next year.

We are not on schedule.

We are not ahead of schedule.

We are definitely behind schedule.

It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.
IMO, you are wrong on several points:
1) I believe we will AT LEAST make the NIT this year (injuries notwithstanding)
2) I believe we will make the NCAA next year.
3) I believe we are AT LEAST on schedule, and possibly ahead, but not behind (not when you consider that we lost 4 long-time starters from the previous season, and that CAG had to determine which of last year’s players fit his program on the go-forward).
4) I believe we will win at least 1 NCAAT game within the next 4 years.

Time will tell on all of these points. Suffice to say, I must agree to disagree.
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  #96  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Should have at least made the NIT last year or this year. We were coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances.

Should make the NCAAT next year.

IMO, neither one of those things is going to happen.

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.

We will not make the NCAAT next year.

We are not on schedule.

We are not ahead of schedule.

We are definitely behind schedule.

It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.

Not buying any of the Archie left a bare cupboard nonsense.

We had 5? guys leave last year. Grant is doing something to alienate his players. 1 or 2 leaving is normal, 5 at a A10 school like UD is highly unusual IMO.
You are so blinded by your distaste for Grant’s coaching that you can’t see (or won’t acknowledge) what is plain as day to most of us. Sure, you’re entitled to an opinion, and it’s fair to be dubious. I have my own issues with his in-game coaching from time to time, but I also see a serious uptick in recruiting, a change in program culture, and a team that still has deficiencies but has been in every game this year. AG has to get some credit for that.

What you see as him running off players, many of us see as weeding out selfishness and discontent. And if you don’t think Archie left the cupboard bare, you’re bordering on delusional.

You’ve made your predictions, now let’s see if you’re fair enough to admit you’re wrong IF he gets this team to the NCAA next year or, sooner than that, the NIT this year. My guess is you’ll find a way to deny AG any credit if one or both happen.

As Figgie said, you’re closer to troll than fan with your disdain for this coach. Prove us wrong with a little crow eating should what you say WON’T happen DOES happen.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We had 5? guys leave last year. Grant is doing something to alienate his players. 1 or 2 leaving is normal, 5 at an A10 school like UD is highly unusual IMO..
Svoboda
Williams
Pierce
Crosby
Kostas

Please tell me which one of these guys helps us this year more than being a warm body?

Kostas doesn't count...he wasn't staying and was a problem in house
Williams...didn't have the intestinal fortitude to play here...problem in house
Other three were nothing more than warm bodies on the sideline.

I am in the same boat as The Fly. I have my concerns about late in game coaching. I do not have ANY concerns with the level of talent CAG is bringing in, his desire to clean house and change culture, his style of play with the players he wants/needs, his professional ability to represent the program well and keep moving them in the right direction.

CAG will continue to be successful here when he get a full compliment of players. His short term success will sit on the ability for him to make the right calls to put the limited bench in the best position to succeed.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Should have at least made the NIT last year or this year. We were coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances.

Should make the NCAAT next year.

IMO, neither one of those things is going to happen.

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.

We will not make the NCAAT next year.

We are not on schedule.

We are not ahead of schedule.

We are definitely behind schedule.

It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.

Not buying any of the Archie left a bare cupboard nonsense.

We had 5? guys leave last year. Grant is doing something to alienate his players. 1 or 2 leaving is normal, 5 at an A10 school like UD is highly unusual IMO.

I expect Grant to do as well as or better than Archie, he has a lot of work to do to meet that standard.
And you thought/think one of Archie’s assistants would be doing better than AG.

You have posted some ridiculous stuff but this post is up there with one of your most ridiculous.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
You are so blinded by your distaste for Grant’s coaching that you can’t see (or won’t acknowledge) what is plain as day to most of us. Sure, you’re entitled to an opinion, and it’s fair to be dubious. I have my own issues with his in-game coaching from time to time, but I also see a serious uptick in recruiting, a change in program culture, and a team that still has deficiencies but has been in every game this year. AG has to get some credit for that.

What you see as him running off players, many of us see as weeding out selfishness and discontent. And if you don’t think Archie left the cupboard bare, you’re bordering on delusional.

You’ve made your predictions, now let’s see if you’re fair enough to admit you’re wrong IF he gets this team to the NCAA next year or, sooner than that, the NIT this year. My guess is you’ll find a way to deny AG any credit if one or both happen.

As Figgie said, you’re closer to troll than fan with your disdain for this coach. Prove us wrong with a little crow eating should what you say WON’T happen DOES happen.
Right back at ya pal. We will see if you will admit that you were wrong when I end up being right.

Agree to disagree on the rest of your post.

At least I put my cards on the table as Figgie requested.

How about you put your cards on the table?

Will UD make the NIT this year? Yes or no?

Will UD make the NCAAT next year? Yes or no?

When will UD next win a NCAAT game?

Will Grant do as well as or better than Archie?

A response to this post would be appreciated.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Svoboda
Williams
Pierce
Crosby
Kostas

Please tell me which one of these guys helps us this year more than being a warm body?

Kostas doesn't count...he wasn't staying and was a problem in house
Williams...didn't have the intestinal fortitude to play here...problem in house
Other three were nothing more than warm bodies on the sideline.

I am in the same boat as The Fly. I have my concerns about late in game coaching. I do not have ANY concerns with the level of talent CAG is bringing in, his desire to clean house and change culture, his style of play with the players he wants/needs, his professional ability to represent the program well and keep moving them in the right direction.

CAG will continue to be successful here when he get a full compliment of players. His short term success will sit on the ability for him to make the right calls to put the limited bench in the best position to succeed.
I think all could have helped. AM was great at player development. I am not happy with Grant's player development.

There was nothing significantly wrong with the culture that could not be fixed by tightening the leash on the existing coaching staff and players.

We did not need to totally destroy what Archie built in order to correct some small culture problems.

It is not enough for Grant to eventually have some success, we are trying to have the same success on the same timetable as Archie, he needs to have the same success on the same timetable. Do not tell me that Archie left the cupboard bare, that is nonsense. Grant should not get extra time to be successful, he took over a program that had been to 4 straight NCAAT's, the program had all the momentum in the world when he took over.
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