|
|
11-19-2008, 10:59 PM
|
|
Lieutenant Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: High Atop Stuart Hill
Posts: 898
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 822 Times in 337 Posts
|
|
If UD Retired Jerseys ...
Retiring jerseys last came up when B-Rob graduated ... clarification: this is more like honoring players since actual numbers can be recycled for active players.
I personally support the idea of "retiring" jerseys (not numbers) as extra recognition beyond the Hall of Fame.
North Carolina, of course, has a veritable locker room hanging from the rafters. That might be overkill, but why retire jerseys?
1) Reinforces tradition -- young Flyer fans should know these names!
2) Gives budding greats like B-Rob and CW something extra to shoot for
3) Source of pride, intimidates visitors
FWIW, _avier has 3 retired jerseys: West, Larkin and Hill, but they didn't rival our success in the 50s & 60s. I broke candidates into groups with key stats. The first five stand out:
INAUGURAL CLASS:
15 FINKEL (23 ppg, 13 rpg)
21 D. MAY (22 ppg, 14.5 rpg)
22 CHAPMAN (18.9 pt, 8.1 reb)
42 PAXSON (18 ppg, 515 ast, 52% fg)
54 MEINEKE (19 ppg)
2ND CLASS:
10 D. SMITH (20.4 ppg, 88% FT)
21 UHL (18.5 ppg, 14.6 rpg)
14 J. DAVIS (19 ppg, 323 asst, 76% FT)
3RD CLASS (OR NOT):
15 HORAN (14.6 ppg, 11 rpg)
32 KNIGHT (14.8 ppg, 663 asst)
-- ROGGENBURK (16.1 PPG, 11.8 RPG), #?
AFTER A WHILE:
2 ROBERTS
CLOSE BUT NOT QUITE?:
3 PERRYMAN (13 PPG, 10 RPG, 54% FG)
12 STANLEY (14.7 ppg, 174 stl, 1835 career pts)
15 CHMIELEWSKI (1962 NIT MVP, 15.4 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 2ND TEAM ALL-AMER)
20 SYLVESTER (15.4 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 74% FT)
20 CORBITT (14.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 53% fg)
40 KANIESKI (14 ppg, 7 rpg, 77% FT)
Last edited by Columbia Blue; 11-19-2008 at 11:20 PM..
|
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Columbia Blue For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-19-2008, 11:16 PM
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Columbus
Posts: 485
Thanks: 54
Thanked 159 Times in 62 Posts
|
|
I think Perryman gets in for sure. Where do Goodwin and Greavy rate on the list? Is it too early to nominate Wright?
|
11-19-2008, 11:18 PM
|
Commander in Chief
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,352
Thanks: 4,403
Thanked 10,615 Times in 5,096 Posts
|
|
I don't like retiring jerseys, but put them in the rafters for recognition. I would love to see that.
|
11-19-2008, 11:26 PM
|
Locked
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greatness Land
Posts: 1,113
Thanks: 11
Thanked 355 Times in 136 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Fudd
I don't like retiring jerseys, but put them in the rafters for recognition. I would love to see that.
|
Amen. For a program that markets its tradition as much as UD, I'm amazed we don't have a shrine to former greats, other than the pictures on the wall in the concourses. I'd love to have a "ring of honor" somewhere in the arena. Maybe just a few banners with names and years played. Something.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to AdamtheFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-19-2008, 11:28 PM
|
|
Lieutenant Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: High Atop Stuart Hill
Posts: 898
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 822 Times in 337 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by cbusflyer12
I think Perryman gets in for sure. Where do Goodwin and Greavy rate on the list?
|
given our programs relative lack of attitude, i doubt jerseys will ever be retired, but for sake of debate ...
establishing somewhat objective criteria would be critical. to your question:
on my list, goodwin & grevey are sentimental favorites but not among the elite. other than our first 3pt marksman, grevey may be an HOF longshot with 875 career pts (7.7 ppg).
goodwin is in the 1000 pt club (1,191), 10 ppg and 86% FT -- probably HOF, well down the jersey list.
Originally Posted by cbusflyer12
Is it too early to nominate Wright?
|
in historical perspective, way too early. look at may, uhl & finkel averaging career double-doubles before freshman eligibility. we all hope chris has that sort of career as his coattails will take UD a long way!
|
11-20-2008, 12:39 AM
|
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 414
Thanks: 320
Thanked 113 Times in 61 Posts
|
|
I would say Perryman is a must and Corbitt should be up there as well. What about Sedric Toney or Brooks Hall?
Although he didn't have the stats to be among the greats, what about the idea of Chris Daniels?
|
11-20-2008, 01:29 AM
|
|
Locked
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On an island
Posts: 1,783
Thanks: 175
Thanked 576 Times in 305 Posts
|
|
If UD retired jersey's it would be the best thing it ever did!
Think about it, you can spread them out and have halftime ceremonies. UD has a problem reaching out to its famous alumni in general ... especially on the sports side.
There is no reason I should not see Flyer greats getting honored.
I would love to go to the game when Waleskowski would get retired. It is a way to link old with new ... the great prorams do it. We should too.
|
11-20-2008, 01:36 AM
|
|
Major
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 616
Thanks: 16
Thanked 47 Times in 15 Posts
|
|
If we're talking about retiring jerseys, why not have banners in the rafters too. I never understood why UD's accomplishments are tucked in the corner where much of the arena cannot see.
|
Mad Props to allflyernamesaregone For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-20-2008, 01:44 AM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,470
Thanks: 423
Thanked 744 Times in 358 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by allflyernamesaregone
If we're talking about retiring jerseys, why not have banners in the rafters too. I never understood why UD's accomplishments are tucked in the corner where much of the arena cannot see.
|
Because of the way the Arena is set up, it would block peoples view if there were banners hanging from the rafters
|
11-20-2008, 07:23 AM
|
Commander in Chief
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,352
Thanks: 4,403
Thanked 10,615 Times in 5,096 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by zmz723
Because of the way the Arena is set up, it would block peoples view if there were banners hanging from the rafters
|
We have had banner up there before, on either side of the central scoreboard. (For NIT and NCAA appearances.)
|
11-20-2008, 07:57 AM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,752
Thanks: 233
Thanked 267 Times in 141 Posts
|
|
The only jersey retired should be Chris Daniels.
|
Mad Props to Flyer1407 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-20-2008, 08:37 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,356
Thanks: 5,414
Thanked 9,814 Times in 4,075 Posts
|
|
Here is the criteria for UNC. Note differences in "retiring" and "honoring".
To be honored, a player must be named ACC Player of the Year, MVP of a National Championship-winning team, or to first- or second-team All-America, or be a member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team.
To have a jersey retired, a player must win one of the following six national player of the year awards: Associated Press, National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, John R. Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Trophy, and Naismith College Player of the Year.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-20-2008, 08:55 AM
|
|
Lieutenant Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: High Atop Stuart Hill
Posts: 898
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 822 Times in 337 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by shocka43
Here is the criteria for UNC. Note differences in "retiring" and "honoring".
|
W*O*W!!!!!!!! our criteria would need to be a tad more liberal, otherwise our program would never get off the ground! i knew UNC was a bad example -- ha ha!
|
11-21-2008, 11:18 AM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,642
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 4,578 Times in 2,405 Posts
|
|
bobby joe hooooooper
|
11-21-2008, 12:50 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,356
Thanks: 5,414
Thanked 9,814 Times in 4,075 Posts
|
|
I will tell you that one that should be honored somewhere, in any respect, is Chris Daniels.
|
Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-21-2008, 01:02 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Chris Daniels has the Conference's Most Improved Player award named after him. But it would be nice for the university to honor him in the arena as well.
He was an awesome guy and was just starting to come into his own as a player. Who would ever forget listening to the Fordham game after Chris' death and hearing Larry and Bucky in tears several times during the play-by-play? Not me, that's for sure.
I would say Ryan Perryman yes. It would mean a lot to him, I think, and he deserves it. Tony Stanley no.
|
11-21-2008, 02:38 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,084
Thanks: 112
Thanked 435 Times in 190 Posts
|
|
Using UNC's rules, UD would have seven honorees, all first or second team All-Americans.
Schumacher
Meineke
Uhl
Chmielewski
Finkel
May
Paxson
You could, in theory, honor Don Donoher because he was an assistant to Bob Knight's 1984 Olympic gold medal team, thus technically making him part of the team. But still, this leaves a lot of heavyweights off the list.
Interestingly enough, UD has never had a conference player of the year. (MCC, GMC (ha!), or A10).
If you're wondering about guys like John Horan and Garry Roggenburk, they were both third-team All American selections.
Last edited by The Chef; 11-21-2008 at 02:47 PM..
|
Mad Props to The Chef For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
11-21-2008, 02:52 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,597
Thanks: 5,175
Thanked 5,456 Times in 2,384 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
Chris Daniels has the Conference's Most Improved Player award named after him. But it would be nice for the university to honor him in the arena as well.
|
There is a large plaque on the wall already, though you may have been talking specifically about something hanging from the rafters.
|
11-21-2008, 03:09 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,147
Thanks: 88
Thanked 125 Times in 66 Posts
|
|
I think it wouldn't be a retirement of the number as much as it's a "RING OF HONOR" or whatever you want to call it. Special players (whatever the criteria) have the number and name hanging in the Arena, that doesn't mean that other players can't wear the jersey #.
I would have to nominate Keith Waleskowski (just behind Perryman in pts and boards) just because of how hard it to get to 1000 pt / 1000 rebound. Plus he shot over 75% from FT. Can't wait for him to be inducted into the UD Hall of Fame though. That will be a special day.
|
11-21-2008, 03:17 PM
|
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 251
Thanks: 382
Thanked 63 Times in 36 Posts
|
|
Great idea and list
Would be about time to hang jerseys from some spot easily noticed. I'd also see Hooper and Toney before Kanieski. There were 20 players on the all century team (including Bucky), and I agree with most. Kanieski did not make it even though I thought he was as deserving as Ed young (whose Sr. year was a real downer as I recall ... Yeah, I know, THE SHOT).
I really believe it is time for UD to admit to the mistake of standing behind Roger Brown when he was accused (but never indicted) during the betting scandal in 1960 (I think). He surely would have been the best ever at UD! Even though never played at varsity level, it would be an appropriated gesture to include him here as well.
Now, how do we get the Admin. to act on this great idea????????????
|
11-21-2008, 03:18 PM
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 286
Thanks: 151
Thanked 103 Times in 41 Posts
|
|
I really like the "ring of honor" idea. Rather than a huge banner for each individual, a lower key plaque somewhere around the arena with a jersey number, name and dates.
I think Chef's list of the first and second team All Americans is a great start. I would add Chapman, Donoher, Daniels and call it done.
|
11-21-2008, 03:51 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wilmington, oh
Posts: 9,151
Thanks: 2,075
Thanked 2,524 Times in 1,441 Posts
|
|
TheJoint, I like that list. The only name missing off that list might be Negele simply because of how he put the team on his back for a big NCAA run. Without Negele that team doesn't even play in the NCAA. But, others could argue that Negele was a one year wonder and not worthy of inclusion
|
11-21-2008, 04:14 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 7,178
Thanks: 31,882
Thanked 1,269 Times in 787 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by PerrymanFan
I would say Perryman is a must and Corbitt should be up there as well. What about Sedric Toney or Brooks Hall?
Although he didn't have the stats to be among the greats, what about the idea of Chris Daniels?
|
agree about Perryman, not sure about corbitt. toney not with us long enough, and Brooksie a near miss imo. here here for C Daniels!!
My top 5: Uhl, Chappie, Donny May, Paxson, Donny Smith
2nd Five: meineke, Finkl, Johnny Davis, Horan, then it gets tough.
Either Perryman, Roberts, mabye Keith W or Roggenburk.
AND Dandy Don Donoher for sure!
|
11-21-2008, 08:15 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order
1. Ryan Perryman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negale Knight
4. Chris Daniels
5. Tony Stanley
|
11-21-2008, 08:37 PM
|
2nd Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dayton
Posts: 86
Thanks: 13
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
|
Even though I liked him a lot, I don't see any room for Brooks Hall.
|
11-21-2008, 10:11 PM
|
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 414
Thanks: 320
Thanked 113 Times in 61 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by RFlyer3
I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order
1. Ryan Perryman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negale Knight
4. Chris Daniels
5. Tony Stanley
|
Awesome list, but I would replace Stanley with Waleskowski.
|
11-23-2008, 12:58 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Troy, OH
Posts: 2,881
Thanks: 7,183
Thanked 2,477 Times in 1,111 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by The Chef
Using UNC's rules, UD would have seven honorees, all first or second team All-Americans.
Schumacher
Meineke
Uhl
Chmielewski
Finkel
May
Paxson
You could, in theory, honor Don Donoher because he was an assistant to Bob Knight's 1984 Olympic gold medal team, thus technically making him part of the team. But still, this leaves a lot of heavyweights off the list.
Interestingly enough, UD has never had a conference player of the year. (MCC, GMC (ha!), or A10).
If you're wondering about guys like John Horan and Garry Roggenburk, they were both third-team All American selections.
|
I couldn't go along with any set of rules or requirements that would leave Roosevelt Chapman out. IMO, one of the top 3 players to ever wear a Flyer uniform, if not the top.
|
11-23-2008, 01:00 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Troy, OH
Posts: 2,881
Thanks: 7,183
Thanked 2,477 Times in 1,111 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by RFlyer3
I have only been around Flyer basketball since 1980's. But my Top 5 flyers are: In Order
1. Ryan Perryman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negale Knight
4. Chris Daniels
5. Tony Stanley
|
You're leaving out the Velvet Man? Or are you thinking late 80's? I think you're close but here are mine:
1. Roosevelt Chapman
2. Brian Roberts
3. Negele Knight
4. Ryan Perryman
5. Tony Stanley
Last edited by JimBo; 11-23-2008 at 01:04 AM..
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|