GW - Recap

[SeasonTicketFan]

Nice, tough win.

Entertaining game. Great crowd. This year, UD can just drive you crazy with the spurts. The play can be amazing one minute and tough to watch another. Fortunately, UD as often under Archie's direction finished very strong.

Interesting stat sheets.
- 6 turnovers. When was the last time UD had so few?
- Killed on the boards. 40-29. Gave up way too many offensive rebounds. When was the last time a team wins the board battle by 11 and loses?
- FTs. 16 for 17. Woohoo!! Meanwhile, GW was awful 5 for 15
- GW shot 50% from 3. It feels like every team lights UD from behind the arc. What are opponents shooting from 3 against UD this year? It can't be pretty.
- Nobody except Pollard had foul trouble. That was an important item. GW likes to draw fouls.

Pierre had one his best offensive game ever. Another game where he makes a difference. Cooke had an ugly, hard fought 15 points.

UD did fairly well against the 1-3-1 zone. I expected GW to use it more, but the UD zone offense seemed to be effective against them. Ball movement was excellent. Good.

Pierre has great court vision. He is starting to team up with Steve which makes Steve a bigger threat. Steve's alley oop dunk was nice. Steve is showing some nice moves around the rim with either hand.

I hope Pollard can get started. He is in a slump, but foul trouble hurt him tonight.

7 assists for Scoochie. Good game. Crosby did not hurt the team except for one ill advised shot. He could get away with that in high school, not in college.

I think Darrell Davis is still not in stride yet. He is a due a for a big game or two. He had a very nice steal in the first half.

Defense perplexes me. Steve did a poor job against Larsen at times. Larsen could get down low and score at will against, Steve, Pollard and whoever.

I am frustrated by the 3 defense. GW had a lot of open 3s and they nailed too many. The team does not seem to fight through screens. They give up a lot of 3s off screens and lot a pick and rolls. However, the last 6 minutes or so, they tightened up the D. The crowd helped as you can see the loud noise causes confusion and sometimes panic with opponents.

Officiating was the usual inconsistent. Fans, did not like some calls, but UD got some great breaks from the stripes. GW shot themselves in the foot with a technical and intentional or break away foul (That was the right call.) UD fans want the team to get every call, but often don't acknowledge when we do get the wrong call in our favor.

I write about areas to improve, but UD beat two good A10 teams at home this week. Two good wins to bounce back from the fiasco in Philly. Two important road games next week.

[Smitty10]

Even though Big Steve was handled by GW's inside offense most of the game, I think that was best as we couldn't afford to have him in foul trouble today, not with the game Pollard was having. Was surprised not to see Williams play for the 2nd straight game. Thought maybe they should've put him in for Pollard to see if that would help with rebounding. At least for a minute or 2.

I'm starting to see why the Flyers do so much better in the dance than these other teams now. Seems like all the top A10 teams live and die with the 3 and that isn't going to get you far in March, though it will give the Flyers fits from Jan until then.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Two most important points in the game - Big Steves two FT!!

[ud69]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Two most important points in the game - Big Steves two FT!!

I chuckled a bit when they fouled him intentionally late. He is shooting 84% from the line - one of the reasons to have him on the floor at crunch time. That is second only to Pierre's 94%.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud69 I chuckled a bit when they fouled him intentionally late. He is shooting 84% from the line - one of the reasons to have him on the floor at crunch time. That is second only to Pierre's 94%.

I wasn't laughing until after he made them. This was the first time he was shooting crucial FTs at the end of a very important game. That's a whole different test. He passed.

Also, I thought the most important points were Cooke's off the glass and one that put us back up by 6.

Also had to laugh when Scooch escaped getting fouled, got the ball across court to KD in corner who immediately got it into Pierre's hands. Already GW let too much time run off the clock and Cavanaugh just stood there almost begging Pierre to pass it to someone else. Then as almost to say "f it" fouled him.

[TerryK_67]

Big Steve got schooled by Kevin Larson, a wily cagy veteran with great skills. The good news is, that will be Big Steve in a couple of years. Given he is just a freshman his performance was BDG!

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 Big Steve got schooled by Kevin Larson, a wily cagy veteran with great skills. The good news is, that will be Big Steve in a couple of years. Given he is just a freshman his performance was BDG!

Larson is a real stud. He might make an ideal power forward in the NBA.

[jack72]

Great coaching by Archie last night. He plays Crosby a bunch early, and saves Scoochie's legs for the second half. He plays Mikesell a few minutes, sees he is overmatched and sits him. Not starting Steve is genius. Cuts down on his fouls. The team handled the zone defense better than any game last night. That is coaching and Pierre. 40 minutes of solid effort last night, rare for this team.

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 Big Steve got schooled by Kevin Larson, a wily cagy veteran with great skills. The good news is, that will be Big Steve in a couple of years. Given he is just a freshman his performance was BDG!

One look at Steve's legs and you can see the difference between him and Larson. Steve needs to add lower body strength and when he does, look out!

[CE80]

Larsen got the better of Steve but Steve's performance was solid.

[Cityengr]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Larson is a real stud. He might make an ideal power forward in the NBA.

Agreed. Looks like he could make it as a banger too with his size/shape and basketball sense.

Funny but not so funny story (if you are him) from last night's halftime warm-up that most probably missed. GW comes back out at halftime and Larsen immediately goes to FT line with ball in hand. Before he can even shoot the first one, he takes one in the groin from another long rebound warm-up shot. It doubles him over and he hobbles to the bench ball in hand (literally) and sits down for the remaining two minutes - rocking and holding - no shots no warmup. No way to tell if it affected his play, but we've all been there and its a no good feeling! Later in the half he misses two FTs short and my wife chuckled.

[Fudd]

Pierre is a zone-breaker. Pass it to him in the high post like we did last night and he is a triple threat. That puts a lot of pressure on a zone defense. He makes us a different team against a zone.

Larson is a good big, but I think that Steve is better with a much higher ceiling. I would not want Steve to get big heavy legs like Larson. Steve picked up a lot of spring and mobility by losing 50 pounds. He is a much bigger blocking threat because of it. And he lacks no power down low. Larson made a few tough shots against Steve, but Steve made him take tough shots.

[Cityengr]

Originally Posted by Fudd Larson is a good big, but I think that Steve is better with a much higher ceiling.

Definately agree. And not to get ahead of ourselves, but with a reference that NBA folks are noticing Big Steve, last nights game had those moments. Several blocks from all angles, ability to get up and down the court, 82% FT shooting with two big ones at crunch time, lob dunk from DP, left handed baby hook at one end and a two handed put back at the other. Sure there are rough edges that need work, but hes young, the body AND the head are there, he's coachable and genuinely seems like a great kid whos having fun while playing.

[mook]

Originally Posted by Fudd Pierre is a zone-breaker. Pass it to him in the high post like we did last night and he is a triple threat. That puts a lot of pressure on a zone defense. He makes us a different team against a zone. Larson is a good big, but I think that Steve is better with a much higher ceiling. I would not want Steve to get big heavy legs like Larson. Steve picked up a lot of spring and mobility by losing 50 pounds. He is a much bigger blocking threat because of it. And he lacks no power down low. Larson made a few tough shots against Steve, but Steve made him take tough shots.

I'm sure UD has the smart enough strength and conditioning team to make Steve stronger in his lower body and core without him getting too bulky and slow. He still needs to get stronger so he doesn't get pushed so far away on post entries too.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Any team that tries ANY zone on us is in for a very rude awakening the rest of the way. park Pierre in the middle of it and enjoy the ride............ask Syracuse.

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by Fudd Pierre is a zone-breaker. Pass it to him in the high post like we did last night and he is a triple threat. That puts a lot of pressure on a zone defense. He makes us a different team against a zone.

It really is something how much more effective UD is against a zone with Pierre in the lineup. His passing is, generally, outstanding: he might be the smartest passer on the team. I think that's a result of his being a triple threat as you mentioned. Because defenders can sag off when he's at the high post, other players can find themselves with easy baskets as long as they're willing to make the proper cuts and keep their hands ready.

That alley-oop to McElvene was beautiful.

[IAFlyer]

Opponents are shooting 37.1% from 3 against us and we are at 34.5%.
Us- 7 3s made per game
opponents- 7.5 3s made per game.

http://daytonflyers.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball&

[maddog07]

Our free throw defense won this game. Outstanding.

Not sure what to make of Pollard. 20 mins, 1 rebound, zero points on one shot. Can't be the chemistry, unless his problem is CC. He was not in that much with big Steve. Do't know how well he player on d.

[cobra8u]

Kendall will come around, I think he is just out of step with the offense and will eventually find his spot in it.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Fudd Pierre is a zone-breaker. Pass it to him in the high post like we did last night and he is a triple threat. That puts a lot of pressure on a zone defense. He makes us a different team against a zone. Larson is a good big, but I think that Steve is better with a much higher ceiling. I would not want Steve to get big heavy legs like Larson. Steve picked up a lot of spring and mobility by losing 50 pounds. He is a much bigger blocking threat because of it. And he lacks no power down low. Larson made a few tough shots against Steve, but Steve made him take tough shots.

Larson's build is why I think he could be a power forward in the NBA. In regards to Pierre and the zone, you are exactly right. He, unlike any other Flyer, has that ability to get into the middle and either work for a shot or kick it out. He had some impressive passes out of the middle last night. Kendall Pollard has attempted to do the same, but he doesn't have the ball-handling skills like Dyshawn.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by IAFlyer Opponents are shooting 37.1% from 3 against us and we are at 34.5%. Us- 7 3s made per game opponents- 7.5 3s made per game. http://daytonflyers.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball&

Good post, and stats do not usually lie.

BUT, I think our 3 point defense is better than some on here are giving us credit for. Yes occasionally we leave someone wide open. But how many times has an opponent thrown up an off balance shot as the shot clock expired? How many times has someone shot a 29" shot when the defender was still playing good D? Maybe our opponents 3 point shooting percentage is the counter balance to to the KenPom Luck factor ratings posted about our Flyers a few weeks ago.

[maddog07]

Wish Archie had a better feel for when our opponent is on a run, and takes a timeout to stop it or change personnel. Again last night we had a working margin of 8 and gave up 11 straight. I think everyone knew GW was heating up and we counter. This seems to happen to us a lot.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UDDoug]

Some coaches, like Dean Smith and John Wooden did not believe in time outs if they thought game plan was being executed and was the right strategy. I don't think Miller is as far as they were in that scale, but he tends to favor laying through it, particularly at home. Don't know I would call a TO as much of the ru. Was a 6 point possession.

[BOF02]

I think Archie plays through runs to save the time outs in case they are needed at the end.

[jack72]

I have to wonder how good an outside shot Steve has and will have? Free Throws are not always the best correlation, but wow he has a great stroke.

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by jack72 I have to wonder how good an outside shot Steve has and will have? Free Throws are not always the best correlation, but wow he has a great stroke.

If McElvene continues to develop into the player people have anticipated AND he maintains his free throw touch, he could be one of those devastating big men who doesn't leave significant points on the table each game at the line. That would be a fantastic thing to see in a UD uniform.

[Fudd]

I heard from a number of sources over the summer that Big Steve has a surprisingly good outside shot. He's darn good near the hoop, so I doubt we see him shooting from 25 feet anytime soon. But nevertheless, I've heard that he can shoot.

[TommyGola]

Big Steve has exceeded my expectations. He has a nice touch around the basket and is the second best free throw shooter on the team. I think he could be one of the best centers to ever play at UD...perhaps the best!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Fudd I heard from a number of sources over the summer that Big Steve has a surprisingly good outside shot. He's darn good near the hoop, so I doubt we see him shooting from 25 feet anytime soon. But nevertheless, I've heard that he can shoot.

What a weapon that would be and if he has it, I would expect us to see before the season is over while we still have Pierre to get open inside once teams have to worry about the big guy shooting from outside.

[maddog07]

Love Steve, but best ever will require miraculous improvement. Hank Finkle is the best center ever with Bill Uhl Sr, Monk Meineke and Bill Chmeluski not far behind. There is also Ashman and Finn for Steve to measure up to before comparing him to all Americans.
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[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Big Steve has exceeded my expectations. He has a nice touch around the basket and is the second best free throw shooter on the team. I think he could be one of the best centers to ever play at UD...perhaps the best!

Slow down a bit, TommyGola! There's a guy who scored over 1,900 points in 3 years in a Flyer uni, and another who tallied over 1,800 in 3 years that are undoubtedly among the Top 5 centers to play here, not to mention a certain 7-footer who led us to a #2 national ranking in the mid '50s. But all those guys played here 50+ years ago. I'll "settle" for him being the best center of the Arena Era @ UD. Go Big Steve! Go Flyers!
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[jack72]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Big Steve has exceeded my expectations. He has a nice touch around the basket and is the second best free throw shooter on the team. I think he could be one of the best centers to ever play at UD...perhaps the best!

Long way to go in order to match Hank Finkel, who was a first and second team all-american.
"He led the Flyers to the NCAA tournament's Sweet Sixteen in both his junior and senior seasons, with the Flyers eventually losing to the #1-ranked team both years."

"Hank remains the third-leading scorer in UD history with 1,968 points, behind only 1965–66 teammate Don May and four-year player Roosevelt Chapman. He holds the Dayton record for scoring average in a single season (25.3 as a junior) and career (23.7). His career field goal percentage of .619 is third all-time and first among players with 500 or more field goals made." And he averaged over 13 rebounds over his three years.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by jack72 Long way to go in order to match Hank Finkel, who was a first and second team all-american. "He led the Flyers to the NCAA tournament's Sweet Sixteen in both his junior and senior seasons, with the Flyers eventually losing to the #1-ranked team both years." "Hank remains the third-leading scorer in UD history with 1,968 points, behind only 1965–66 teammate Don May and four-year player Roosevelt Chapman. He holds the Dayton record for scoring average in a single season (25.3 as a junior) and career (23.7). His career field goal percentage of .619 is third all-time and first among players with 500 or more field goals made." And he averaged over 13 rebounds over his three years.

Let's be honest though. There is no way Big Steve is going to get close to those kind of numbers(by average anyway). It's a totally different game today and when it's all over, the best that can happen is we're debating it because it won't be definitive. Back in Finkel's days, he got to play against teams with 6'7 or shorter centers a lot. I'm sure it was more so in the 50s.

Big Steve is rarely going to get the opportunities where he's going to have the size mismatches that the others got to exploit. And somewhat frequently, he's going to be the shorter player.

I personally think he's off to a good start in his quest to be compared to those guys. He's got a long way to go, but as we've learned with AM, his players tend to go a long way.

If the Flyers do come back to close to the prominence they were back then in college basketball while Steve is here, he's going to be a major reason and it will have been longer mountain to climb as a team then the ones those other guys did. To rate Big Steve, your going to have to base it on the success of the Flyers and how big of part he played in it. His stats won't tell the whole story.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Fudd Pierre is a zone-breaker. Pass it to him in the high post like we did last night and he is a triple threat. That puts a lot of pressure on a zone defense. He makes us a different team against a zone.

Archie said DP was putting up ~100 extra shots after practice this week to get his stroke back. Baby D needs to join him...

[jack72]

The tough part about DD is he seems to flinch when he takes many shots. He has to stop thinking and let it fly. That airball he popped from about 8 feet was typical. No one was going to block it, but he flinches and short arms it.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 Any team that tries ANY zone on us is in for a very rude awakening the rest of the way. park Pierre in the middle of it and enjoy the ride............ask Syracuse.

We need to prove that on the road. I think Dyshawn played in the LaSalle game. How did that work out? Let's see what happens at St Bon and Fordham. I hope you're right. Pierre will be operating in a phone booth if we can't shoot better on the road than we did at LaSalle.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Jeff]

The big difference in the game came down to the last 10 mins. Cavanaugh scored his last hoop with a little over 10 to go. Never scored again. Might have taken one shot. Whoever was playing D on him (I think it might have been DP) was the difference. He looked like he ran out of gas. I dont think we had many guys play over 30 min, maybe DP. We wore them down.

[mook]

Originally Posted by jack72 I have to wonder how good an outside shot Steve has and will have? Free Throws are not always the best correlation, but wow he has a great stroke.

If you watch warm ups Steve will put up a couple threes every now and then. they look solid. First one I saw him shoot was nothing but net. Good to know if he happens to get stuck outside at the end of the shot clock it wouldn't be a complete prayer.

[Flyer 86]

[QUOTE=Radar;436155]Archie said DP was putting up ~100 extra shots after practice this week to get his stroke back. Baby D needs to join him...[/QUOT

Thats COMMITMENT from our Senior Leader.

Add 130 points roughly for his ten games missed, plus whatever else he averages for the year.

Stud!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by mook If you watch warm ups Steve will put up a couple threes every now and then. they look solid. First one I saw him shoot was nothing but net. Good to know if he happens to get stuck outside at the end of the shot clock it wouldn't be a complete prayer.

I doubt you'll ever see him outside when the clock is running out, he will be camped inside somewhere waiting to be fed or for the offensive rebound. He's not quick enough to get outside in that situation like KP is.

[mook]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I doubt you'll ever see him outside when the clock is running out, he will be camped inside somewhere waiting to be fed or for the offensive rebound. He's not quick enough to get outside in that situation like KP is.

I hope he isn't either but if it does happen I'm just saying there's a chance.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I doubt you'll ever see him outside when the clock is running out, he will be camped inside somewhere waiting to be fed or for the offensive rebound. He's not quick enough to get outside in that situation like KP is.

It almost happened Friday. He got the ball out at the three point line with about five seconds and was unguarded, and I thought maybe he would let one fly, but he quickly passed like he never gave it a thought.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by mook I hope he isn't either but if it does happen I'm just saying there's a chance.

Oh, let me say that I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a 3 point shot, but not as the shot clock running out. AM might be saving this one for tournament time.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 It almost happened Friday. He got the ball out at the three point line with about five seconds and was unguarded, and I thought maybe he would let one fly, but he quickly passed like he never gave it a thought.

He probably felt Archies laser stare and hot breath on his neck.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer He probably felt Archies laser stare and hot breath on his neck.

I know you were joking, but it brings something to mind with me and that is Big Steve seems like one of the most unselfish big players I've ever seen. He's always looking to kick the ball out when he gets it inside. In the past, it seems we have had guys that thought they always had to shoot it no matter what. Game after game of guys getting the ball smacked back in their faces when the opening wasn't there. Or just putting up bad shots. Kavs was pretty unselfish too but Big Steve always looks to kick it out or at least fakes it which allows him to make a move to get off a good shot.

[Dogdaddy]

Since this has turned into a bit of a "Big Steve" thread I thought I would add something interesting I saw during the GW game. It backs up Smitty's observation about him being unselfish. Late in the game, as GW was playing a bit of offense/defense, Steve remained on the floor when the GW big went out. Before the ball was put in play he was waiving and screaming to the UD bench. When he got their attention they immediately subbed him out to get the right match up. That was both unselfish and heads up by Steve.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan - GW shot 50% from 3. It feels like every team lights UD from behind the arc. What are opponents shooting from 3 against UD this year? It can't be pretty. UD did fairly well against the 1-3-1 zone. I expected GW to use it more, but the UD zone offense seemed to be effective against them. Ball movement was excellent. Good. Defense perplexes me. Steve did a poor job against Larsen at times. Larsen could get down low and score at will against, Steve, Pollard and whoever. Officiating was the usual inconsistent. Fans, did not like some calls, but UD got some great breaks from the stripes. GW shot themselves in the foot with a technical and intentional or break away foul (That was the right call.) UD fans want the team to get every call, but often don't acknowledge when we do get the wrong call in our favor.

Frankly, GW gave that game away and I'm sure they're kicking themselves for it. Rebounded us to death and hit their 3's, but then turned around and had way too many turnovers and went 5-15 from the line.

I wonder how all these teams keep getting "lucky" from 3. Gee, we sure are unlucky. I wonder if any better defense would cause us to get "luckier"? See Gibbs, Jack.

I watched the game on TV, and the mood in the arena might differ but the replays on TV showed we got VERY favorable treatment by the officials. We got away with several fouls that would have either created and-1's or saved a possession for GW. I'm surprised GW didn't get T'd up more.

If I was playing UD we would play zone every minute of the game where DP is not on the floor. Cover SS and bluff at DD, let anyone else shoot it from outside (assuming Mikesell stays on the bench).

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Wish Archie had a better feel for when our opponent is on a run, and takes a timeout to stop it or change personnel. Again last night we had a working margin of 8 and gave up 11 straight. I think everyone knew GW was heating up and we counter. This seems to happen to us a lot. Posted via Mobile Device

But not so much the past 2 years. I've noticed this.

Not sure whats happening or the reason.